Robert always exceed himself explaining this. GG

@thraxbert

2 жыл бұрын

Really happy with my decision to give amd a shot. I bought the 7800X3D and I LOVE the performance

I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to this processor cache stuff, so this was interesting and simple enough to understand, nice

@rexomi17

2 жыл бұрын

If you play 1440P or 4k with highest SETTING. You won't able to see difference. GPU 3D cache makes a difference. But having bigger cache in CPU is nice.

@johndoh5182

2 жыл бұрын

@@rexomi17 AMD gave an average uplift for this CPU based on 1080p gaming, which is a 15% uplift. That's a pretty good jump and making a claim that you won't notice a jump when moving to 1440p gaming, when you have GPUs right now that are much better that last gen GPUs, AND you have technologies like DLSS 2.0 and FSR 2.0 that increase the graphics performance, I'm going to flat out say you're wrong. Yes, if you have a GPU that craws like a turtle at 2K gaming you're probably not going to see any difference, but then I don't know why you'd go out and buy this CPU considering Zen 4 is about to come out and Alder Lake and Raptor Lake are also really good at gaming So one still has to use some common sense when buying hardware. I would say if you don't already own an AM4 platform that's worth keeping for a long time because you spent a lot of money on it (X570 MB, 32GB DDR4 DRAM), this isn't a good buy. But, if you built an AM4 platform based on a high quality X570 MB that is 100% PCIe gen4 BTW, and you've bought a high quality GPU, this makes sense if you're idea is to have it for years. DLSS, FSR and RSR will get better which speeds up graphics processing, and that then means even 2K gaming will easily benefit from this when you have a REAL 2K gaming GPU, such as a 3080 or 6800 or better. For 4K gaming, well, all I can say is the game better have DLSS or FSR because there's only a small number of GPUs that can game at an fps that most gamers would want to play at anyway. Personally I wouldn't even consider 4K gaming for about 2 more generations of GPUs, when I think there will be a good 4K gaming GPU that can actually run using less than 300W. But that's just me personally because my PC is in the same room and I don't like having to strip down naked to run a GPU that's using 400W while I'm gaming for a couple hours. I mean that's starting to get near a low setting for a space heater. Throw in the CPU and other components and you're actually running a space heater, but instead of a thermostat controlled device, the thing is constantly putting out heat. No thanks. Even my 2K gaming rid with a 6800 XT starts to warm up the room, and it's using less than 300W. But the same thing applies. If you have a GPU that's good for 4K gaming, AND the game includes DLSS or FSR, whichever your GPU uses and this then gets your fps up a bit higher, then this CPU will make a difference. It won't be as much as 1080p gaming.

@rexomi17

2 жыл бұрын

@@johndoh5182 Yea and PCIE 4.0 not that bad for 7000 series amd or nvidia GPU, unless if the GPU 5.0 8x lane (entry level card) or upcoming SSD. DDR5 is nice but didn't give much improvement and DRR4 still last many year to come like DDR3. for CPU Me gonna go for 12600k or 12700 for streaming , gaming with 32gig ddr4.Also 1tb SAMSUNG 980 Pcie 3.0 ssd.

@rexomi17

2 жыл бұрын

@@johndoh5182 However my motherboard have PCIE 5.0 and sightly 10 dollar pricy than mortar but worth it for my need.

@D3XTerSvK

2 жыл бұрын

@@rexomi17 I'd say it makes a huge contribution for future-proofing. Sadly I'm still on ancient i5-4460 which is showing serious cache defficiencies. Especially as I've always opened 25-30 Chrome tabs and bunch of other stuff opened simultaneously, 6MB of L3 cache is not enough for 2022...

Robert, this was great. We need more up-close lessons like this to inform the masses. Great and informative video.

This is a master class in making technical information accessible. Bravo!

AMD please do more of these kind of educational video's it's really interesting! Maybe one day a tour behind the scenes? I'd love to see the design process of a CPU, the R&D departments and such

Freaking love this series, Robert explains it so cool, makes super complicated tech into easy to understand concepts for us, the consumers. Loving my switch from Intel to R5 3600 and soon 5600

@arnoldshmitt4969

2 жыл бұрын

can wait for am5 stuff , just waiting for them to release zen4 and i am jumping to them

@Glock7eventeen

2 жыл бұрын

Welcome to team red

Your video worked, I bought a 5800X3D at launch from Newegg. Congrats!

no wonder why he is the Director of Marketing, i haven't seen any likeable marketing personality like him, the video is around 10 mins, usually i feel bored and dont go through such videos till the end, but with this guy, i just want more content and 10 mins just feels short. we should get more videos about AMD techs done by Robert.

The fact that AM4 lasted a decade is exactly why I was able to be an early adopter of AM5. Decade-long sockets with respect for compatibility is HUGE. Keep that focus on compatibility and people will love your product.

Actually interesting, great video AMD, please make more! Edit: there's no better way to promote a function than explaining it and giving the customer knowledge

This man is amazing i love the way he explains it all

Thank you robert for explaining it in such an easy format. We need more such videos for everyone to have some basic knowledge about the products they are planning to buy. I hope amd will be able to provide us with some unlocked 3d v cache cpus soon after this, possibly with zen 4 or zen 5. That would be the icing on the cake.

Love these videos, really wish they did alot more!

i wish they cold tell us more about how they got to "hybrid bond 3d" like how they made the conductors so much smaller and denser. sadly we probably want get that story for a another 10 year's or more

@johndoh5182

2 жыл бұрын

That's called HIGHLY classified IP at this point. Yeah, you'll probably never hear how this is done for a few more years. But I guarantee you that some entity in some country is trying to hack into TSMC systems to get a hold of this IP.

@DimitriosChannel

2 жыл бұрын

@@johndoh5182 Thanks for the answer.

@jakethewhale

2 ай бұрын

I think it is similar in concept to cold welding, which was discovered back in the 40's.

Very interesting, would love to see more videos in this style!

Probably one of the best explanations for 3D v-cache that I’ve seen. Good work

this videos are Superb!!! nobody else do this LOVE U GUYS!!

Very well explained. Thanks, it was so easy to follow along and understand. Would like to see more of this if possible.

Just replaced my 5900X with this 5800X3D. I love it.

i love amd, use it for a long time!

Thank you, Lisa! You have a great TEAM and amazing products.

All of this makes me just even more excited for Zen 4.

Would have been awesome to provide more details than this surface level explanation. How exactly do you make the die connections? How do you handle the heat output?

Excellent explanation and amazing innovation, great job AMD.

I work in Aerostructure manufacturing and I'm familiar with what you're talking about called: "Wringing" where 2 very flat parts placed together interchange electrons through molecular attraction 🧲 but there's no magnetism involved! We do this daily 😌

@NKG416

2 жыл бұрын

i just realize that gauge block use this too

@fcfdroid

2 жыл бұрын

@@NKG416 yup! I love gage blocks i use them every day.

Thank you for these Videos Robert!

I hope they use this in Zen 4 , cant wait to buy a new rig , its gonna be awesome! 💪 My i7 920 is at the end of its life even if OCed to 4,1ghz.

Thanks for making educational content would love to see more e

I'm excited to work with some of the people who made this happen this summer. It's gonna be cool!

The explanation is very extensive yet super simple at the same time, so it's much easier for a person like me that knows nothing about this technology to actually understand it, just one question tho, how are you be able to write backwards ?

@AntonioNoack

2 жыл бұрын

The video is mirrored 😊

@andersjjensen

2 жыл бұрын

It might be a clue that everyone who does these "write on glass"-videos appears to be left handed :P

I am impressed with your ability to write backwards on the screen.

@calvint3419

2 жыл бұрын

He wrote normally. The video editing mirror the image again.

@broomer0

2 жыл бұрын

@@calvint3419 /swoosh

even layman can now understand what the 3DV cache is. thanks Robert!

i love the way he explains things

Very Well and Simple Explaining , Thank You😊

That sounds awesome. Thank you for detail information. That is great to understund what you buy and why.

@LayerZlayer2000

Жыл бұрын

Pretty late

That was excellent, thank you :)

that was great explanation of 3d v cache Mr. Robert I'm pleased to learn from you all your videos is awesome

Thank you for this presentation. It was very interesting. In regards to shaving the die portion, does that not reduce effectiveness of the remaining die? How is it able to match the performance of an unshaved die? And if there is no difference between the two then couldn’t we increase the output of usable dies by vertically splitting them? You can even hybrid bond them back if it isn’t a two to one ratio.

@BSEUNHIR

2 жыл бұрын

Chips are not 3D. The usable transistors are just on one surface of the entire die. The rest of the die is completely without function, just a block of silicon. People have been thinning dies forever by sanding them. Extreme overclockers do this to reduce the distance the heat has to travel through silicon and get to the cooler, hoping for better temperatures. They call it die lapping. You can theoretically shave it down to just a few atoms thick, but you know from larger scale experiences in your own life how hard it is to make something thinner without breaking it.

@marsovac

2 жыл бұрын

@@BSEUNHIR Well not exactly on one side, the interconnects are, but the actual transistors are inside, and you can thin it too much and damage the transistor layers. Die thinning is a really dangerous thing, must be perfectly flat, not too shallow and not too deep.

@blkspade23

2 жыл бұрын

Intel did their own die shaving back on 10th Gen K SKUs. For them however, it was as a heat management measure. The thinner die allowed for the heat to escape faster.

@johndoh5182

2 жыл бұрын

@@blkspade23 But this wasn't die splitting because you have 2 horizontal layers of transistors to produce 2 separate die on that same layer of silicon.

@RyanLynch1

2 жыл бұрын

I'm also wondering about the die shavibg

Absolute master class technology and explanation for the average viewer to know what's really going on ! Hats off to you sir !

Well done explaining!

Amazing

No one has noticed that he actually writing from mirror perspective.. Good skills..

@leeham6230

4 ай бұрын

1 year late, but they can flip the video after recording it.

@jaypatel0088

4 ай бұрын

I couldn't think that.. But.. How the hell 1 year just passed???

@leeham6230

4 ай бұрын

@@jaypatel0088 lmao time flies bro

@jaypatel0088

4 ай бұрын

@@leeham6230 flies? Faster than flash??.

When ever this guy shows up to explain something he always has something very important to tell

Fascinating.

Excellent video

There is only one problem: You showed us a 5900x3D prototype - we need it!

Damm Robert, you really went beyond. Great video. 9/10, just needed to put shrek on it to be perfection.

The no glue part is amazing!

@jakethewhale

2 ай бұрын

Sounds like cold welding

The 5700x3d is so fast! Good job AMD!

very easy to follow

brilliant!

really cool video! havea good day everyone! im thinking of getting one soon!

Thanks for the explanation, is so interesting

Great explanation video. 👍

dats sick bruv

very well explained nice job

Makes sense!

thanks for the good explanation

Brilliant

This is amazing I just got this cpu and ohhh yes it's fast and soild good work amd

Nice, zen4 and rnda3 could have this tech?

I'm dumb but I can still understand this very well,he's a good teacher.

SoC in a few years will be something I look forward to 👍

Nice explanation

Thank you for the great video so does v cache cpu has more latency than non v cache cpu? or it does not matter

Hbm memory amd Hbm from 10 year's I loved the explanation thank you , it can be used on everything like i already guessed since it already as been an adaptation. My next machine will arise from your old ashes it will show things clearly i swear

Future Metaverse AI Civilization:How were we created? Ancient Metaverse: Talks about humans/aliens that created 3D V Cache

Stunning technology. Subtitles would be appreciated.

awesome video , will it beat the 12900ks?

I'm interested in their new line of GPUs if they're going to use the 3D architechture. We could see some huge gains.

@TheBlackWaltz

Жыл бұрын

They're Chiplets, but they decided not to stack the memory on these first cards. It's very possible that their 7950xtx or whatever they will call it has that. But apparently they didn't feel it needed that boost for the price to add it.

@AMD Bob with the 3D V-Cache getting voltage from the same controller as the cores is it due to Zen3 architecture or a lack of free pin on the AM4 socket? also can HB3D replaces the 2,5D packaging when it comes to HBM? and can we finally 86 the obsolescent GDDR already and start using HBM more on AMD GPU?

Does thinning the Zen 3 die cause any durability issues?

Still waiting on a 5950X3D I want to push my current system to its actual limit and to allow the god awful DDR5 modules to mature and reduce CL by 40%

@TheMakiran

2 жыл бұрын

Then wait for zen4! It's coming this fall

@commanderoof4578

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheMakiran that is AM5 that means new system which also mean NO!! A 5950X3D is a drop in replacement and what i both want and need to exist otherwise its the 5950x and that is a piece of crap in comparison to what a 5950X3D would be

@TheMakiran

2 жыл бұрын

@@commanderoof4578 15%-20% difference would make it obsolete?

@commanderoof4578

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheMakiran yes actually it does because of my use cases We are talking about the 5950x and a 5950X3D and so it should instantly be presumed i am not just some one that watches videos and plays games and thats all otherwise a 5600x fits perfectly for that I need the cores of the 5950X, i need the Cache of X3D and i need the per core performance which also ties into the Cache size as it accelerates what i do and better uses the clock cycles For my use cases it’s more like a 40% increase over a 5950x

@TheMakiran

2 жыл бұрын

@@commanderoof4578 oh sure then

Been thinking about 3D VCache and I have a question! Wouldn't it be a good idea to implement the cache chip in reverse? By this i mean having a "trench" on the substrate where you place the cache chip and then put the CPU chiplet on top of it instead of the cache on top of the CPU, you could possibly even then have 2 cache chips, one above one below, though my idea here is to avoid the heatspot issues by having the cache below the CPU chiplet to enable the CPU to be directly next to the heatsink instead of adding distance and thermal "soaking" areas with the current approach.

@Je-kg8up

Жыл бұрын

I am guessing it would be too difficult to get interconnects going through/via the cache to the die on top and there would a latency penalty from having the die further from the substrate. An interesting idea though.

@wskinnyodden

Жыл бұрын

@@Je-kg8up the distances remain pretty much the same, in fact could improve with die thinking which would be a good idea to do as the cache does not get as hot as the cpu, so it can really be thinned without much thermal considerations, a this point the structural integrity would likely be the limiting factor.

Thanks for the great presentation. Just curious, may I know what are impact on cache size for things like video rendering?

@louisfriend9323

2 жыл бұрын

Less impact than more threads or more cores

@johndoh5182

2 жыл бұрын

Probably very little if any. L1 and L2 cache are going to make more difference. For video rendering you're taking data off of storage, merging it with effects you're created, whatever those affects are, and creating a new video stream. The issue here is can the functions that merge this data all fit in cache, and with newer CPUs the answer is mostly yes. You can look at the big jump in performance Intel had going from Rocket Lake to Alder Lake, and they increased L1 and L2 cache. Gaming is a lot different. It's more than what was said here. You also have a game engine that needs to reside in memory, and you have all the data from the game world which resides in memory. None of this resides in storage during game play, unless you have a really small amount of memory, but that's why games give you min. specs for a system. If you had to keep hitting storage for data during game play, you'd have such bad stutters you'd hate it. So, a section of a game map along with the game engine has to reside in RAM. And because it resides in RAM, having a larger L3 cache means having to go to RAM less often. If you're at a particular point on a map, the things you can interact with at that point can end up in L3 cache. This should make sense.

@jierenzheng7670

2 жыл бұрын

@@johndoh5182 Thanks for the explanation!

@gabriellazonunthara1227

2 жыл бұрын

@@johndoh5182 great explanation

AMD YES!

haha the RDNA3 MCM hint, anyway love the way you explain things.

I wonder if heat can be an issue to break to the bond between layers.

@marsovac

2 жыл бұрын

That is surely something they can test with heat cycles and would not worry about that, probably the same silicon quality is used to minimize the heat induced stretching. But what has to be considered is that another die on top will consume power. And this is why the X3D has 200 Mhz lower clocks compared to the standard 5800X, in order to maintain the same TDP and heat output, and also the heat of the CPU die itself need to pass through the cache die to get cooled, so they might have problems with higher heat on the CPU die itself - overclocking could damage it easier.

@Tony-lg9td

2 жыл бұрын

Main reason these chips will not be able to be over clocked. Great question though! AMD announced this not to long ago.

@CamelEnjoyer

2 жыл бұрын

Probably why it is clocked so low out of the box

I love my 5800X3D!!!

from 3DNOW to 3D V-cache, what an evolution AMD has been through

@flintfrommother3gaming

Жыл бұрын

Both were incredible but one is actually successful.

for me this video creates the following questions: fist one: does the material of the 3d-cache transfer heat efficiently, the drawing shows basically that all the heat of the cpu cores and the non 3d cache has to move through the v-cache to the heatspreader and than the Heatsink of the cooler and its a smaller area where this heat is transferred, this just screams for heat dissipation problems. second one: if that what you do in a videogame is random for the pc or the cpu who decides what to put in the bigger cache so that it can be loaded from there instead of the Memory? the cache is bigger but it is still tiny compared to the Memory.

AMD 3D V-Cache 😍

Are you considering dye thinning on the IO die for the future in order to stack a GPU on it. This usually came with less cache and a monolithic dye in previous Ryzen G processors. Was wondering if there is a possibility to improve them in order to be on par with the non G models.

@andersjjensen

2 жыл бұрын

Currently the G variants are just laptop chips oomphed up to Desktop wattage. But yeah, it would be cool if they made "XG" variants which are normal Desktop variants with as much GPU as can be realistically fed with DDR5.

I went from Intel to AMD a few months ago and haven't looked back since.

05:25 that's insane holy smoke.

What about the latency? I can't find any exact information on the difference between 3dv-c and traditional on-die.

Cool tech, but massively disappointed that you didn't give us higher core count versions. 😞

Playing league and only thing I can say let's ff right now AMD started another evolution of technology gg

It might be harder to manage the heat from a system like this, however if theres a massive nearly generational leap in performance then as long as its similar in heat output to the rest of the Ryzen family I dont see why there would ever be a need to overclock the chip.

@CouchMan88

2 жыл бұрын

Seems like you were correct in your assumption because they don't allow overclocking on this CPU.

You could place a small plate of synthetic diamonds, since they have a higher thermal conductivity and those that are made by machine are cheap. the best ihs would be that

4:50 Does anyone know what exactly this process is called? Would love to just read about this at night instead of sleeping. Is this the same process called cold welding where two metals that aren't oxidized would weld together if they touch in vacuum?

@JohanEQUIXOR

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe a sort of interposer juste like HBM... Hard to say..

@commanderoof4578

2 жыл бұрын

I would say they might be using a non oxygen environment Because when metal isn’t oxidised it will weld on contact

@danieloberhofer9035

2 жыл бұрын

It's called "van der Waals force". You can Wikipedia that, I just checked. There's a pretty good explanation.

@gmaxsfoodfitness3035

2 жыл бұрын

@@danieloberhofer9035 It seems to add up. Good find.

@platomanchi

2 жыл бұрын

@@danieloberhofer9035 Awesome thanks this will make up for a great 4am research material.

if the cpu cores are going to be below and the memory on top will the cpu cores be cooled from beneath the motherboard? or could the memory be below with the cpu cores on top so that the cpu core are cooled from above the chip? maybe question is more relevant if it's many layers of memory and other stuff on top of or below cpu cores

Innovation

now this is some serious marketing😎👍

If Robert was my teacher I would probably be a scholar at this point

Just installed my 5800X3D right now.

i love u amd for explaining this

@AMD

Жыл бұрын

Our pleasure! 😀

I wonder if they will make some cpus with less cores and faster 3dvcache because a lot of games are single threaded

WOW!! Johhny Sins is a computer guy now