You can clear content with all the tanks, and warriors are fine (especially on farm) I just always prefer the safest progression tanks. I focused mainly on the ability to tank bosses, but of course there are other benefits each tank has: b rez, raid sac, hysteria etc. At the end of the day though, what matters most to me is if you can safely live through a boss encounter, especially on progression. I also do not mention feral druid much in this video, because they are harder to compare to the other three tanks due to using leather gear and having much different stamina / armor scaling. I also have the least knowledge of wrath feral of the 4 tanks.

@cabercrombie13

2 жыл бұрын

Wouldn't you just put the protection warrior to MT patchwerk? Also, Don't death knights have much lower armor and get basically wrecked early in the expansion as compared to warrior with available gear? Warriors always scale really well with gear, so I'm not sure that apples to apples comparison with crappy template gear makes much sense

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

With their frost presence, the armor multiplier roughly makes up for not having a shield. Like I mentioned, Warriors are perfectly fine, I personally just always prefer the safest tanks and when warriors or taking massive chunks of damage they don’t have the damage reduction talents other tanks do.

@scrubbsgaming.3784

2 жыл бұрын

Would of through DKs would be much worse in terms of surviving a hard hitting encounter. Realistically they are essentially a bear with less armour. Less dodge higher parry. I would assume they need the extra flat mitigation % to offset an inability to block and reduce incoming damage to a high level. Paladins seem to be the go to for survival. But that’s more because the can prevent a death than there other ability’s completely outshining other classes. Also huge potential with prot warriors as an off tank, high mobility exceptional aoe threat and lockdown. I would be suprised if you don’t see them pace setting the runs and pallys taking a back seat until bosses. Big snap threat potential from there shockwave, TC and thorns. (Higher I would think than a pally waiting on con ticks or DK death and decay.

@vezax8505

2 жыл бұрын

@@cabercrombie13 Dk has WoTN, warrior doesn't. Realistically speaking both warrior and dk early on are bad when compared to prot pala. The difference is that later on bdk scales well into the xpac and warrior doesn't.

@kungfujoe2136

2 жыл бұрын

well... they are not protpalla's and not even bear druid and dmg is not great you have to be a bit of a masochist

Something is so great to me about the og warrior tank. Just a sword, a shield and your warrior abilities and the sound of the enemies bouncing off of your shield that makes me love the warrior tank

If prot warrior has million number of fans i am one of them . if prot warrior has ten fans i am one of them. if prot warrior have only one fan and that is me . if prot warrior has no fans, that means i am no more on the earth . if world against prot warrior, i am against the world.

@jonathonvoegtli4699

2 жыл бұрын

Wrath prot warrior is my favorite tank. Has been since I started tanking in wrath and moving forward till I stopped in legion.

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

Important to note, prot warrior is probably the most fun tank too, which is probably the most important factor for most.

@Dualities

2 жыл бұрын

All these dudes talking about the same thing like they know everything. That 20% dmg reduction at less then 30% hp... Most od the time this talent doesn't even matter. If you are at 30% u are alredy loosing snyway

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

It applies to hits that take you below 35% as well. Not just once you are under.

@Dualities

2 жыл бұрын

@@Zatar 70% of the fight u are never below that anyway. idk why people hype that talent so much. how many times are u actually under 30% hp?

stacking some block value and slapping everything around sure does fun , honestly i can see prot warrs be pretty nutty for soloing or just doing contest ur overgeared for

I started a 10 man raiding guild that I planned on only inviting friends to, but they kept recruiting and now we have 70+ members wanting to raid, I originally wanted to be an arms warrior but I’m going to have to tank my 10 man group and arms for 25, thank you for making this video I’m feeling more confident about playing prot now.

Just in terms of my personal play style I prefer tank classes that first and foremost have elements of risk reduction/randomness protection built into their kit. I've played a warrior, druid and paladin tank for all of classic so far but I think I'll OT on my warrior for PVP gear and main blood DK like I ended up doing in OG wrath.

Just found your channel and I am loving the content. I couldn’t agree more with your assessment of prot warriors. I plan on having a prot alt who will primarily tank heroics and do some “behind the curve” raiding.

Tanked ICC H and Ulduar with a prott warrior MT, they are solid, especially with the glyph and talents that give a 3 min cooldown on shield wall , and their ability to constantly stun a mass of mobs and a personal regen ability not to mention their last stand, they will stomp 5,10 and even be useful for 25 mans, their overall damage reduction before 35% is superior to all other tanks, and thereffore wont reach the 35% barrier as often, IE they dont get as chunked as other tanks

@Xoeism

Жыл бұрын

Fully agree. I mained a prot war all of wrath. Never had issues with damage or threat. I trialed in my guild and then kicked the pally MT out of his seat due to out playing them, generating more threat and taking less damage. Wars are just as viable, but require you to pay way more attention and predict the fight and use CDs appropriately. Everyone keeps praising the 35% auto-lazy-safety net talents as if they will always save you. Not if its on CD. There are so many ppl that play war badly that it skews the perception. The other tanks are just easy in comparison since the game plays it for you. I'll also add: Any boss fight that requires tank swamping is much smoother on war. Resisted taunt? No worries, its ready to go on your next global. Also better at fights requiring a lot of movement.

As an OG WARRIOR tank as well as currently a guild leader and MT in classic wrath downing all 10 and 25 man content on day one when raids launched. I can tell you from MANY years of exp raiding as a prot warrior is great, the skill cap on prot warrior tanking is much harder and also much more rewarding then the other tanks. With a competitive raid group all tanks are fine. Warriors have higher EHP then paladins and MUCH higher TPS and damage on single target and AOE then all other tanks. People who don't understand how warrior tanks work will always default to the ez talents and glyphs prot paladins have in this expac

@josemartincobosortega1295

Жыл бұрын

what is the EHP??

@aleph-tav

Жыл бұрын

Who has the best port warrior guide?

Prot paladins also have the +5% healing taken talent that they are able to take when necessary. Adds a functionally 5% "damage reduction" as long as they're being healed, which is quite strong. Then there's also their Holy Shield talent which gives them more consistent DR against physical damage. Shield Block is strong burst DR wise (and is particularly nutty against high quantity of mobs that do low damage) but since it's only up for 24%~ of the time it's a bit spiky in terms of DR. Plus it counter synergizes with your dodge/parry which is awkward, unlike Holy Shield which synergizes incredibly well with those stats.

Hi Sir, I'm a big fan of prot warriors. Could you please test something for me ? Spec to around 1960 block value(soft cap) and do a shield slam without glyph of blocking, on 80lvl dummy, then apply Glyph of Blocking, and do the same and could you show us the values in terms of block vs damage increase ? could you also do the same with Shield block up, with and w/o shield of blocking ? thxxx

Don't the block buffs in the talent tree severely increase the amount of dmg blocked by blocks though? In the intro you made it seem as though blocks are completely useless

So what will you main? I always play dps so am planning to casually level blood DK and try some tanking.

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

I will play blood dk as a main, but still will play a warrior as an alt.

So many other LK tank vids don’t bother with the specific comparative math, or take into account level of content or level of effort needed to put into Prot. Kudos! I look forward to dungeon spamming with my zoomy tank.

@Dualities

2 жыл бұрын

I mean he didn't talk bout why wariros are actually good in this video just bunch of "oh look they dont have dmg reduction when under 30% hp that means thy are bad tank"...

@schmidth

2 жыл бұрын

@@Dualities He mentioned briefly that they are mobile, fun... but what more do they really bring? It's not like they have insane threat, dmg or anything that matters vs bosses. They have a better tier token tho, sharing with hunter and shaman means you can gear slightly quicker. But that's somewhat irrelevant because tanks should always have tier prio anyway.

excellent video, thanks⚡

very nice compared ... i wanted to decide if i will tank or play fury/arms in classic and now i have my answer

Subbed ty for the content

So how come you didn't mention pharaoh drew is I mean they have a taking speck too the other thing is that Warriors are the most mobile tanks so they do have that

Yup.. its rough for prot warriors. They are my favorite tank in wotlk. Im maining arms with prot OS, so I can still tank 5 and 10 mans easily

Shield block is decent, its about 10 seconds with about 3-4k shaved off per hit every 40 seconds, it increases both block chance and block value as well as a big dmg increase to shield slam

I agree with you on the that warrior isn't the top but I think it is the most fun favor that is what gaming is to have fun.

DKs may get the 8% damage reduction from frost presence and 5% from blade barrier, but that's pretty well made up for in that warriors have that much more armor from their shield, and warriors only a measley 10% from defensive stance 13 > 10 right? sort of... but it's A LOT closer than it would seem on the face of it it turns out that 3% difference is actually less than a 1% difference once you're geared One thing to consider is that these percentage based damage reduction effects stack multiplicitively the formula is `100 - 100*( (1-a/100)*(1-b/100)*(1-c/100)...*(1-n/100))` for a dk with 50% mitigation through armor 8% through frost presence and 5% through blade barrier that is a total of 100-100*((1-50/100)*(1-8/100)*(1-5/100)) = 56 % damage reduction for a warrior with the same 50% damage reduction through armor would have 100-100*((1-50/100)*(1-10/100) = 55% damage reduction...not a huge difference AND the more damage reduction through armor that you add the closer the damage reduction between the DK and the warrior get. more over i think you are way undervaluing shield block and and critical block. You mentioned in your video that warriors will no longer be able to to block every incoming attack and treat the new shield block like it's a bad thing. I think you're missing the bigger picture. The vanilla and tbc version of shield block never blocked very much damage i mean if you stack a ton of shield block value to the detriment of all else you can get somewhere in the area of 1200 block value, which is not a lot of damage when you're talking about taking a hit from say brutalus and more over most warriors aren't running anywhere near that much block value in sunwell i'm running around 500 block value. The real reason you wanted to block all incoming attacks in vanilla/tbc was because if an attack is blocked then it cannot be a crushing blow. With Wrath of the Lich King crushing blows are no longer a concern for raiding. So why do i think the wotlk shield block is so good? to start with the valuation of shield block value on gear changes, you can see this in TBC gear on the beta and ptr most gear with shield block value has had that shield block value doubled. In addition to that the conversion from str to shield block value changes in wrath of the lich king. In vanilla and tbc every 20 str was worth 1 shield block value, in wotlk every 2 str is 1 shield block value my warrior copied to the beta went from 500 shield block value to over 1000 easily. Still i just said blocking 1000 damage isn't alot in the face of hard hitting bosses didn't i? But we're not done yet. Critical block doubles the amount your block for 60% of the time so every time you block it's more likely than not to be a critical block, but on top of that you can use shield block every 40 seconds (talented) and it lasts for 10 seconds so 25% of the time you can be blocking every attack, AND shield block doubles your block value a critical block on top of that means you're taking 25% to 33% less damage add to that glyph of blocking and the block value meta gem and you're mitigating some pretty decent damage. just through blocking (to say nothing of the fact that all that block value really increases the damage of shield slam which makes shield block as much an offensive CD as defensive

@begerbingchilling

Жыл бұрын

The shield armor is made up for by the dks frost presence armor scaling

@Zatar

Жыл бұрын

I think warriors are perfectly viable, but they are still the most prone to getting 1 shot, and if their shield block is on cd, they are vulnerable and rely on rng to hopefully get some block / critical blocks.

@QPoily

Жыл бұрын

Fair to note that those blocks only apply to physical attacks as well. There's a fair amount of magic dmg based mechanics that you'll need defensives for to mitigate. That's where prot warrior unfortunately also struggles. And as far as consistent physical DR goes, prot paladins have them beat there thanks to Holy Shield. 10%+40% chance to block + parry and dodge means that prot paladins will typically take either reduced or no damage roughly 70%+ of the time. Unlike warrior which will take reduced/no damage 30%+~ of the time. You could add the 25% uptime of the 100% block chance ontop of that and you'd get to 55% but prot paladins still simply take less spike damage compared to the prot warr. Prot paladins also scale a bit better with parry/dodge comparatively. Shield Block won't be 100% effective during its duration due to parry/dodge chances so every parry/dodge you do effectively "wastes" a part of your Shield Block's true effectiveness. Holy Shield doesn't have this problem since it only adds 40% to your block chance + you can have this increased 40% block chance up 100% of the time. Blood DK also make up for this with their Will of the Necropolis + their ability to heal back a portion of the damage they've taken. They also have crazy defensive CDs that lets them properly rotate them on any kind of dangerous mechanic. Bear tanks are simply gigantic damage sponges with their high hp pools and their defensive CDs.

My main is a prot warrior, but i will change to paladin bcs we want to raid 25 man raids... its sad bcs i love the playstyle of the warrior :(

I think people just misunderstand the role a prot warrior brings to a raid, which is being able to run around and pick up adds, mitigate steady damage, and provide vigilance to the main tank

@QPoily

Жыл бұрын

I wouldn't put Vigilance on the main tank as it reduces their threat generation by 10%. Plus iirc Vigilance's 3% DR doesn't stack with Blessing of Sanctuary/the disco priest 3% DR talent. I'd only put Vigilance on the MT if you need the constant taunt CD refreshing. Otherwise I'd put it on a big dick DPS.

What about druids? I'd like to see Blizz make some changes to fix prot warriors in WoTLK. They're labelled "do not bring" by all the KZreadrs. I think the gaming community is going to follow that advice.

what about druids?

I mean, Kungen main tanked world first Algalon back when wrath was retail. And that's back when we had less knowledge than we do now.

why are you doing a comparison of tanks and not talking about bears?

Not the best tank,but the one that is needed,you can do every content with prot warrior. I tanked icc with my pally with a lot prot wars,and I didnt seen any problems

@matthewbengston10

Жыл бұрын

This was the same for me, warrior seemed to always MT and I off tanked with palidan

Forgot how stale prot palidan is tanking. So I rerolled back to my 60 warrior from classic and made it revenge prot and love it, I main a warlock because of guild pretty much deciding, but going to take my prot warrior to 80 and alt it until it’s gear over grows my warlock. I think people saying about how warrior is the “weakest” tank means nothing. Back in the day when I played prot palidan I always seemed to be the off tank becuase palidans where better at collecting adds and warrior MT but I never completed icc on any hc difficulty

Back in the day we did not worry about this. I've cleared what I wanted to clear with my beloved prot warrior. Only nowerdays with all these sissies in the community who weap every time if they can't rofl-stomp all the content this becomes an issue.

Prot War in MoP was one of the most broken OP things I’ve ever experienced in WoW.

@lawless7859

2 жыл бұрын

You never seen a Brewmaster?

@Ubreakable-lr2dk

Жыл бұрын

noone care about past wotlk expansions all trash

@lawless7859

Жыл бұрын

@@Ubreakable-lr2dk no clue what you mean, but ok

Damn why no love for the druid tank cuz? I feel like you talked about every tank but them in comparison to warrior, ya dig ?

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

I put it in the pin, but they use completely different gear, and their talents are less comparable. Just not as useful in the comparison.

@baronbad5907

2 жыл бұрын

@@Zatar heard chef!

Prot Paladin Blessing of Sanctuary also gives 3% damage reduction.

Prot war in wrath was the most fun I've ever had in pvp. I even joined a private wotlk server for a few years just to run thru 1vXs. It's like constantly living on the edge and wotlk the damage prot warriors put out was kind of disgusting. Tempted to come back just for the nostalgia.

@gzu-em8we

Жыл бұрын

You can get really good at cycling your cool downs in pretty much any 1v1 and are basically immortal.

bru i justed respec'd to prot warrior but ima stay strong

Prot warrior get to shine in wotlk in ICC with t10 and all trinkets. Corrupted key, sindy fang, profesor organ helps him, also the 4pc t10 adds a defensive cd and the amount of stamina you can stack due to gear is higher. Is able to do all content but is much gear reliable :/.

I might play prot war alt for nostalgia. Back in WoTLK me and my guild didn't know prot warriors sucked and I was our main tank lol. We didn't do so great.

some questions - aren't druids tanks too? - ardent defender doesnt reduce damage within the threshold unlike the dk one so its not a straight comparison "paladin one is just better" (but in the context of a raid i get the point) - focus of video was about defensive stuff, how would you rate the threat? single target and aoe? - if it's not progression and you aren't going to die aren't warriors going to be better in terms of overall mitigation and single target damage? - would the incite/revenge spec be good damage in speedruns?

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

Invite / revenge spec probably will never see play in raids if I had to guess, because shockwave allows for very large pulls safely (since you can stun multiple packs). Druids exist, they are harder to compare to warrior because they have different types of talents, and they don’t have similar amounts of armor. They are tankier than warriors generally due to higher hp and armor. They finally get defensives too. Threat is not really an issue for progression, even prot Paladin’s with bugged threat can hold single target. Prot warrior threat is good. Prot warriors will do fine on farm, just likely will die more on progression than the other tanks.

Demo shout and thunderclap “am I a joke to you?”

Those other tanks arent pumping 5k dps as well as holding threat

Not to bust on you, I love Prot warriors, but I love my Prot Paladin more. Classic and TBC Classic weren’t fair to other tanks, Druids weren’t as good as they are in TBC, where they became amazing. Paladins became viable, but mostly relegated to OT at best for most guilds. Prot warriors were kings among men. They still rock, but now my pally will have his just due, for the second time around in WotLK Classic

I never die on patch in nax as prot war in wrath in 10 or 25 man...

@PNJB_R

Жыл бұрын

Prot is fine, people are just picking the fine details that they are indeed not optimal - but that doesn't mean bad, perfectly able to clear raids.

Getting threat was difficult if I remember correctly

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

Their threat is good.

@TheMan-ud2wq

9 ай бұрын

​@@Zataryeah I'm playing wrath and threat is good I started playing in original wrath so it's probably safe to say the reason I thought threat was bad was because I was bad.

Def stance = flat dage reduction Demo shout = each melee att you take is weaker Thunderclap = 20% att speed reduction.. Thats not a small amount of mitigation..

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

Each tank has a damage reduction similar to defensive stance, and every tank can apply a thunderclap effect now. Demo shout can be applied by a warlock, but would be strong if nobody else can apply it. Warriors are perfectly fine though, just more squishy on progression than the other tanks.

@DavidM-hz6rd

2 жыл бұрын

well def stance is the same category as the other % damage reduction talents he compared it to. it's not flat it's a percentage demo should is covered by your dps warrior or warlock (single target only) so there are other ways to get it same with tc, dks and cats will cover it

@dirtnap9641

2 жыл бұрын

100%. People are just going with what they hear streamers say. Prot wars are more than capable. Bears and DKs do have the advantage of turning to kitty or swapping presence to go ont dps mode

@schmidth

2 жыл бұрын

@@dirtnap9641 Tbf DKs aren't going to do crazy dmg just by swapping presence. Gonna have to dualspec and switch gear if you want to actually do something. Bears on the other hand do crazy dmg as a cat, even without changing anything. It's so OP how they wear DPS gear to tank.

They’ll be a blast to play in 5mans

You’d think taking reduced damage at a certain health threshold would be something a warrior would have over any. qq

@Dualities

2 жыл бұрын

its overrated anyway

People in general worrying about warrior tank being bad when they are literally in a mediocre guild where it wouldnt make the difference

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

To be fair, a mediocre guild with bad healers or slow kill times actually is where playing a safer tank helps. Always play what is Fun though.

There is also divine sacrifice with cancelaura for prot pal. Easy DR for you and the raid.

I ran all content as a prot warrior in OG Wrath. Best experience, all the way through. Sure, every tank has shortcomings. The trick is to lean into your strengths. Mobility and threat gen are key attributes for warrior tanks.

@ChessJew

2 жыл бұрын

It's an incredibly fun tank and will be able to clear all content with appropriate gear. Is it the min max choice? No, but it'll be fine

@brandonkruse6412

2 жыл бұрын

Raiding with a good disc priest and a good on-use trinket to buff your health is all you really need.

@Zant3n

2 жыл бұрын

Amen

dude this video hurts my inner prot warri feelings but yeah youre right... im still not sure why ignis the furnace master is hitting me for 31K as a prot warri with high avd and average block raitng... but as a paladin with both stats lower than my warri i can take him easily yes im critt immune and yes i asked multiple other prot warris if i can avoid this shit... seems like i can not

The will of the necropolis is just that one hit though, not all hits under 35%? At least thats what the tooltip says?

@Zatar

Жыл бұрын

All hits

@andreaskarlsson5251

Жыл бұрын

@@Zatar kewk.. sometimes I wonder who writes these tooltips. 🤣 No need to make such ambiguous tooltips lol

@andreaskarlsson5251

Жыл бұрын

@@Zatar "Damage that would take you below 35% health or taken while you are at 35% health is reduced by 15%." You sure a hit when youre at 15% hp is reduced too? :O (i dont have a dk)

@Zatar

Жыл бұрын

It basically reads anytime you are hit when low on hp reduce dmg taken. The extra text is to explain that you still get the damage reduction on a hit that takes you low, even if you were high hp before the hit.

@andreaskarlsson5251

Жыл бұрын

@@Zatar no it says damage that would have taken you below 35% hp or when youre at 35% hp.if youre at 15% hp neither of those scenarios fit if you ask me? But it also wouldnt be the first time blizzard bungles a tooltip. :P I trust you, just me being annoyed at blizz. 🤣

Zatar does this mean your rerolling dk like the rest of the prot warriors ?

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

I am going to play dk main, but still have a warrior alt.

I'm playing one over a prot pally just to show em what's good haha

What about druids? 😞 give ‘em some love! Lol

No one ever does the math on the actual percent of damage mitigated by stacked block value, and they're always surprised when they do.

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

Stacking block value is good for reducing damage taken over a long fight, which saves healer mana for sure, But stacking block doesn’t help when you get 2-3 shot by a boss and get unlucky with blocks.

@holobiont3197

2 жыл бұрын

@@Zatar Yeah it's different in wotlk since warriors don't have perma 100% block anymore, but if a boss is 3 shotting you you can still mitigate more than 20% of that easily with blocks, closer to 30%, and more with crit blocks. Gotta do the math before you realise all those +80-100 block values add up. Even if the boss is straight oneshotting you, you can get block up to nearly 10% extra mitigation.

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

What if you don’t block the attack? You get 0 mitigation.

@holobiont3197

2 жыл бұрын

@@Zatar yeah that's why it's different in wotlk, and that's the thing that needs to be focused on about warrior survivability. Block outstrips the other tanks % mitigation from talents but you don't always get it, (and paladins actually do).

Tanking and pushing enough dps to be competitive. Holding threat. High mobility. Tons of cooldowns. Vigilance. I’ll take a warrior tank any day.

ive played healer and tanks in tbc and classic, warriors aways take less spike damage than paladins

@denispeda

Жыл бұрын

if your healers are dumb play paladin tho

Blizz really fucked up protwarrior in Wotlk and Cata is amazing how they did it twice in a row

You missing on Safeguard Talent. Super Slept on, 30 sec cd that gives 30% dmg reduction for 6 secs or 20% uptime and you can target any source of spikey single target dmg. Threat wont be an issue from the looks of it. Warriors gunna be best OTs in wrath.

@TheWeastBeast

Жыл бұрын

Can you intervene yourself?

@QPoily

Жыл бұрын

Alongside this, they can glyph into Intervene redirecting an additional attack towards the prot warrior. OT-wise they're absolute masters of helping keep the MT alive on frequent intervals. Their ability to provide AP reduction + aoe attack speed reduction are also amazing. Main problem though; are there any fights that actually requires this kind of frequent assistance? Generally speaking bdk/feral in particular are very capable of rotating their CDs for every dangerous mechanic in the game. For the rare gap in the rotation you'd just ask for a PS/handsac. Only tank that can't rotate CDs very well are prot paladins, so ideally you'd want to mix the prot warr with the prot paladin to make up for the prot pala's weaknesses.

@TheWeastBeast

Жыл бұрын

@@QPoily good point. prot war is excellent as an OT but is that even needed?

@gary6631

Жыл бұрын

not to mention vigilance also giving a passive 3% to your co-tank

@gary6631

Жыл бұрын

@@TheWeastBeast apparently its needed if the premise of this video is that tanks get 1 shot by tank mechanics

So what I'm getting out of this is hot warriors are no longer viable because they can no longer mitigate damage properly

@Zatar

Жыл бұрын

They are viable, just the tank most likely to be 1 shot. They have their strengths too.

Make your into about subscribing louder Nd more clear. Not tryna be a duck but that did remind me

I'm taking my prot warrior through northrend for a second time

I'd take a skilled prot warrior over a DK or tank druid any day. From my experience on private servers warrior MT and paladin OT is the best combo...but it's private servers so take it with a grain of salt. Either way all tanks are viable if the person playing them is skilled and knows what they are doing.

honestly think your over thinking all this classic people will optimise and min max everything lmao every tank will do just fine.

@gentrelane

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly this. Relax. People cleared all content on toaster pcs without knowing anything whatsoever about the game

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

I agree every tank will be fine

5 months later warrior are top prio for speed run guilds

I will always avoid to get a prot warrior into my raid, they just suck and bring nothing that’s worth to even think about wasting a spot for them

@dirtnap9641

2 жыл бұрын

Then you're part of the problem. There's no content a prot warrior cannot handle. Bringing shouts, sunder and clap so dps don't have to.

@PNJB_R

Жыл бұрын

Ahhhh so you must be a top 10 guild raider ? Since you are so bothered about the tiny details. Prot is perfectly viable.

@QPoily

Жыл бұрын

@@dirtnap9641 It's his problem but your gain. Just means more prot warriors for you to take into your raid ;))))

Okay but compare armor % of the tanks.. warriors have very high armor compared to other tanks

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

In what way? All 3 plate tanks have the same toughness talent. Dks frost presence helps them stay even with shield users. Bears get the most armor.

Druids get 12% damage reduction from talents, but then the really big one comes in form of savage defense, which after you crit, absorbs damage equal to 25% of your attackpower, so needless to say that druids scale really defensively towards later phases. Not to mention their massive health pool which widens the room for the damage they can take before they need to be healed. Survival instincts is also the best hp increasing defensive, at 30% base and can be glyphed to 45%. And the fact that the bear will have an innate hp advantage over dks and warrs

I remember back in the day my raid ran with a prot pal+warrior and we cleared everything from ulduar to ICC 25 and never had tank issues.. Normal raids (no speed runners) can bring every tank and be successful! We will see what Wrath brings, but I am pretty sure all this tier list will be outdated after the 2nd raid week. And btw tier list videos should be marked as 'Speedrun'.. Standard guilds and raids can bring everyone in Wrath!!

not worth comparing them to pallies there gods ... doesnt warrior get intervene giving 16 % reduced damage to target .. seems good to spam on Main T

@shtroizn

2 жыл бұрын

Nope. Intervene: Run at high speed towards a party member, intercepting the next melee or ranged attack made against them as well as reducing their total threat by 10%. Not a wise choice to take threat away from the MT :)

@TheTandoor

2 жыл бұрын

@@shtroizn It's definitely the ability that will make us the best OT in the game. We can talent it "Safeguard" to reduce damage taken by our intervene by 30% on a 30s cd. The key is that you are also on the hook for playing the threat minigame and knowing if you need to intervene dps or call for salv's on dps before you intervene. You can also glyph intervene to take the next 2 auto attacks instead of just 1.

@shtroizn

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheTandoor I think the main point is this - I just LOVE Warrior! It's my 3rd favorite class (after Warlock and Mage). Never really enjoyed playing other classes. So whatever the stats may say - I will most definitely level these three classes. Also - Prot Warrior is extremely powerful levelling up in Wrath - should be a lot of fun!

Druids not even invited to the table. Hahaha

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

Not that they aren’t good or anything, was just comparing plate tanks to talk about warriors

Since you can’t get crushed in wrath, don’t you guys think that we may see fury/prot back in action? like the old saying is what does not oneshot you can be healed. the big advantage of fury/prot is his great damage that he brings, and especially in parseruns every bit of damage matters

@voodoohex72

2 жыл бұрын

definitely not because threat is much less of an issue then it was in classic vanilla. Also revenge and shield slam hit very hard.

@TheRosswise

2 жыл бұрын

I think in the speedrunning aspect of the current game, this type of thing will be a lot more popular than traditional tanking. Sadly the Blood DK might fit in better with this style of play. But we will see.

@voodoohex72

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheRosswise prot warrior already does great damage and as you can see from this Video their mitigation is not great so pretty sure fury prot won’t be a thing. It wasn’t in tbc either. It was only a thing in classic vanilla due to threat issues so the raid could pump harder.

@TheRosswise

2 жыл бұрын

@@voodoohex72 Did you even read my comment? I said Blood DK.

Probably need to get better healers.

every class will be better at something in the game some fights pallys, some dks, and other will be prot warriors. all 3 will be needed for certain things. example for tbc: morogrim best imo is prot warr so ur dps can really open up since u dont need to slow down for mana.

@justtrymenowvg6079

2 жыл бұрын

I am sorry to break it to you man but no one will ever "need" a prot war 60% of 25 man raiding guilds will just run prot pally and blood dk from naxx to icc man. Its sad but true.

@Tiemooo59

2 жыл бұрын

Uhm sorry what about feral tank? Feral was way better at morogrim and is also better in like every other single target fight in tbc. The only 2 good things a prot warrior has is shieldwall and spellreflect. There is no reason to chose a warrior tank over any of the others tanks. Paladin + Dk as Main and offtank, the 3rd a dps dk or feral can just Tank so you don’t have to waste a spot for a warrior

@guyfromgantz7976

2 жыл бұрын

Tidewalker is a shit example of a Prot warrior being useful in TBC raids. Good examples -> Illidari Council, Illidan, KT, and Reliq

@Tiemooo59

2 жыл бұрын

@@guyfromgantz7976 yes because spell reflect and shieldwall, the only 2 reasons for a warrior tank over the others. Every boss where those 2 abilities aren’t a big deal nobody would chose a prot warrior over a paladin or feral in tbc :D and it’s getting worse for them in wrath for sure

@Harles.

2 жыл бұрын

@@Tiemooo59 wrong but keep watching content creators and filling ur head with terrible info. also feral tanks are completely useless in tbc and u dont see them ever. arrogant way of looking at the game silly lil guy

Tank'd OG wrath through all content there was really no difficulty, Get a good raid comp and you can pretty much raid with anything in wrath.

@kungfujoe2136

2 жыл бұрын

so your raid has to make up for not having an optimal tank? how can you expect more from them than you are willing to do

@marcusmolyneux6422

2 жыл бұрын

@@kungfujoe2136 lmao "optimal" tank you can legit tank with any tanking class and be fine in wrath.

@PNJB_R

Жыл бұрын

@@kungfujoe2136 Unless you're raiding with the top 1 percent who need world firsts, almost anything is viable in Wrath.

@kungfujoe2136

Жыл бұрын

@@PNJB_R war and bear are seposed to be viable tanks in tbc if you get a little more time to build agro it's actualy doable try it in a pug you wont get that time

@PNJB_R

Жыл бұрын

@@kungfujoe2136 Wotlk warrior has no threat problems. You've clearly never tanked as a Prot warrior in original wrath. I have had no problems in clearing content in Wrath as a Prot warrior, and this is back when I had even less knowledge of raiding etc. It's no foul being a newbie to the game though bro. But yeah you've obviously not played wrath before or a Prot warrior in wrath.

poor bear druids got deleted.

Warrior has better defensives, but worse consistency. Tbh if content is 1-shotting you or even taking you below 35%, you're probably just undergeared.

Having always heard "but prot warrior has so much damage!" Who gives a shit? You're a tank, damage isn't why you're there.

Here’s the thing about raiding in Wrath, most bosses don’t do enough damage to outpace a good disc priest or holy paladin. The bosses that can kill you through a disc shield and trinkets will kill all tanks.

Doesnt mention Bears once lmao

After playing wow for 15+ years, I made myself a decision. ie, it is a very very bad idea to play with B or C tier tank if S or A tier tank is viable. As Zatar said, after dying with prot warrior, I will ask myself this question. "Am I dying because I am a warrior?"

@PNJB_R

Жыл бұрын

No you are dying because you're bad or your healers are bad. Or a bit of both. Warriors are not optimal, but they're certainly viable.

@7035kim

Жыл бұрын

@@PNJB_R Even if you are true, people in your guild or raid might think that way.

@PNJB_R

Жыл бұрын

@@7035kim People played WotLK on bad PC's, with zero actual game knowledge. And still beat the raids. This whole must be optimised to the 0.01 percent is a new thing. Wraths whole design was play what you want to play not what you need, as everything is balanced enough to be good and viable. Unless you are in a top 1 percent guild who care to be the most perfectly optimized, it doesn't matter. Zatar also says anything is viable come WotLK. 99 percent of players are in average guilds and average guilds are people who are playing primarily for fun. And guess where Zatar rated prot warrior in his fun list ? S tier. I know personally my guild wants people to play the spec they enjoy, and are very willing to take me as a prot warrior be that off tanking or main tank I don't care.

prot warriors are good enough to tank ice-crown first 3 wings starting out in greens and blues. Source: I did it. First place I tanked outside of Hellfire Ramparts. : )

*laugh in Kungen*

I don't even think we'll get to the "I just wiped the raid" thought. I'm pretty sure 25 raid leaders won't even entertain a prot warrior tanks lol

Three comments: Warriors use shield while DKs do not, so the former is getting a significant extra physical mitigation from this alone. Secondly, warriors share a tier token with hunters and shaman (which will be underrepresented) so you're going to gear up FAR faster then the other tanks. Also, with talents, it seems warriors mitigate more magic-based damage than both bears and pallys.

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

Pallies have a magic reduction talent identical to warriors. Frost presence for dk gives increased armor that makes up for around the same amount of armor shield would have. The tier point is valid

tl;dr theyre not

They're great. But unfortunately, paladins and death knights exist.

@baronbad5907

2 жыл бұрын

but what about druids ? the god tank class

you'll probably be the only one if you do

I played Paladin since closed EU beta. When they became viable tanks in tbc, I thanked with Paladin. In Lich King, there was another tank in my guild, he was a warrior. I could always trust him with my back, and we had a great time. These couple percentages will only make a difference in cutting edge content, primarily server firsts. Never deny a good warrior from doing their job just because there is a Paladin, DK, Druid nearby.

I feel like you're exaggerating the scenarios a little. Prot Warriors are fine. Yeh, they're weaker than DKs and Paladins, and I think that's probably a good thing given the toxic Warrior community the past three years, but all content can be cleared with a Prot Warrior just like it can any of the other tanks.

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

I agree you can clear all content on a warrior, didn’t mean to suggest otherwise. They are just squishy and will die in spots other tanks would live, which can affect progression.

@itsror9838

Жыл бұрын

you miss the point

@Jvstm

Жыл бұрын

@@itsror9838 And what is the point?

@itsror9838

Жыл бұрын

@@Jvstm OP never said prot cant clear content even once in video, its when theres wipe possibility happen during fight theres better tank than prot warrior.

@Jvstm

Жыл бұрын

@@itsror9838 You're missing MY point, though.

I love the idea of prot warrior. They're really cool. Sword and board style is awesome. Sadly they've been kinda so so all of classic. Sad.

@MinecraftSource

2 жыл бұрын

I would say they were pretty good in vanilla classic 💀

@william4996

2 жыл бұрын

@@MinecraftSource Yeah but all the hype was around Fury Tanking with two weapons. Specifically I wanted to play sword and shield and for my limited run in classic it was fury tanking for the most part.

Sorry man, but you are so far off the mark. Yeah, on paper Paladins not dying to a hit that reduces them under 35% is cool, but it has 2 min CD. If you are taking hits that "one shot you" (as you keep saying) those are probably occuring more than once every 2 minutes. Like your example of Patchwerk off-tanks: hateful strike does not have 2min CD. So even if a Paladin or DK survives the first attack thanks to these talents they are fucked on the second hateful strike. Also you seem to be using two classes to show that Warrior has bad CDs when to me it looks like they can actually compete with two classes. Prot Warriors will be fine just like they were back in actual WoTLK. None of this shit matters unless you are trying to world first the raids, but even those people will be over geared for Naxx already with the Sunwell gear.

@Zatar

Жыл бұрын

I think warriors will be fine, survivability is just not their strong suit. They bring other benefits to the table. The damage reduction talents for Paladin and death knight don’t have cooldowns (just the pally cheat death), so they actually will take less damage from every hateful, especially death knight, because their talent is better.

Am they also wear plate and a shield... So thats like 70% dmg reduction... or 2 hander and a shild...U also have demoralizing shout... Aoe threat might still be a problem. Also who cares about dmg reduction at ,35% hp... This talent is useless most of the time

@julianrichardson4739

Жыл бұрын

Your healers and raid care about 35% hp damage reduction. Speaking as a healer, if my tank is dropping to 35% health that's some big spike damage I'm going to want them to have some fail safes. And if it's a warrior without those, there's probably a reason you hit 35% health and that's because you weren't up to the task and don't have enough mitigation.

you died from hateful's as a warrior tank because you suck, or still in greens. every warrior tank i knew back then had no problem tanking any of the boss's in naxx 10/25

@schmidth

2 жыл бұрын

The dmg is increased by 30% mate.

PvP spec belongs in pvp

Why hamstring yourself by playing prot war? (See what I did there). Seriously though why would you intentionally play an objectively weaker class, when you can play prot pala?

Lol this dude is supposed to be a source… literally says two false statements in the first minute.

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

Which statements?

@charleshixon1458

2 жыл бұрын

@@Zatar shield block- gives you 100% chance to block and doubles your block value, not block rating. Shield wall is a 2m cd glyphed and talented and gives you 40% reduction. Critical block also does allow your block to actually absorb huge damage from bosses, especially with shield block active. You should be able to with poor gear block 5k - 10k damage.

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

​@@charleshixon1458 Apologies when I said "Shield block increases your block rating to 100%" I did mean chance instead of rating. The main point I am making is that blocking as a mechanic always is better when overgearing content rather than undergearing. If you are taking massive spikes of damage, taking off a flat value is not as good when undergeared. If you are taking a 20k hit, blocking 1-2k is not making a very big dent in the incoming damage. It's never ideal to rely on rng as well from critical blocks. Like I mention at the end of the video though, the potential for warrior lies in shield block rating and shield block value, it is just hard to get a lot of those stats (especially early) without sacrificing stamina that leaves you vulnerable to being 1 shot, not to mention when you consider hit and expertise, there are many stats the warrior is chasing. Warriors are fine though, just not my preference, because I prefer the tankiest progression tanks.

@charleshixon1458

2 жыл бұрын

@@Zatar the problem with warriors is that they don’t get automatic triggered defensive cooldowns that save the raid from RNG damage spikes such as getting parry hasted or ability double tapped. Their defensive cooldowns are triggered but they are not limited. 2m last stand (+enraged regen), 30 sec gaps between shield block, 2m shield wall. It just requires more paranoia than other tanks who have less to think or do when it comes to being defensive. The example of Hateful strikes hitting you so hard is no different from a paladin except that if it kills them they autoheal. If they’re getting rocked consistently the icd on the autoheal doesn’t proc and you die. It’s just a different stat spread. Defense as a stat benefits warriors and paladins the most because they can block, block value benefits warriors the most. Blocking 10k damage is doable with a crit block, and 5k is still significant. Just cycle between shield block and the 2m cds and you won’t die. It’s pretty easy, just use the abilities in a chain, always. Shield block, shield wall, shield block, last stand + regen, shield block, live 30s, shield wall again, block, last stand again.

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah warriors are fine especially if they are overgeared, I just prefer tanks that are more defensive / safe for progression as stated in the video. I don’t want to play the tank most likely to get 1 shot.

Can we please stop shitting all over prot warriors... if you don't like them, then don't play them, but stop telling people not to play a class that they may enjoy just because you crunched some numbers and under optimal conditions with bis ICC 25 Hc gear 1 class is better than another. Just let people play the game they want to play, and stop shitting on other players because you don't agree with the decisions they make. Most players play a game so that they can enjoy themselves and have fun

@Zatar

2 жыл бұрын

Did you watch the video?

@justtrymenowvg6079

2 жыл бұрын

holy shit man you are coping so hard. Are you really going to deny the fact prot warrior is quite literally the worst tank for progression?

@Dualities

2 жыл бұрын

@@justtrymenowvg6079 use demo shout

If prot warrior has million number of fans i am one of them . if prot warrior has ten fans i am one of them. if prot warrior have only one fan and that is me . if prot warrior has no fans, that means i am no more on the earth . if world against prot warrior, i am against the world.