We going to cuzco academy

@rexdarma6908

Жыл бұрын

"Oh yeah it's all coming together"

@marcello7781

Жыл бұрын

"Long live Kuzco!"

@AxelPaul307

Жыл бұрын

Championship are trying to lead you down the path of righteousness. But Kamayuk's are gonna lead you down the path that rocks.

@Hardcore_Remixer

Жыл бұрын

Pachacuti second campaign: "Kuzco... shall NEVER fall!"

@gregbowen2477

Жыл бұрын

Boom, Baby!

One small thing to note about the kamayuks, is that they tend to clump up, meaning scorpions and the mangonel line, can deal with them effectively if they aren't microed

@demiserofd

Жыл бұрын

Square formation might help with that.

@calebrands4912

Жыл бұрын

Kuzco was really afraid of scorpions.

@mikecostinas3045

Жыл бұрын

Romans entering the chat

@ryannathaniel9296

Жыл бұрын

@@mikecostinas3045 Khmers and Chinese also entered the chat

@daftwulli6145

Жыл бұрын

That goes for pretty much any kind of unit especially infantry and crossbowmen, but thank tol the 1 range they are much bertter at fighting back against these aoe units

You forgot to mention their hidden vulnerability to poison, and the hidden bonus that poison turns them into llamas (which you can obviously use for food) instead of outright killing them

@rubywest5166

Жыл бұрын

About that poison label...

@lloydlejack-official

Жыл бұрын

Oh yeah. It's all coming together

@caret_shell

Жыл бұрын

True, but if they are poisoned and turned into a cow, and they ask to be allowed to go home, you have to let them go. That's only reasonable.

@inductivegrunt94

Жыл бұрын

Right... the poison, the meant specifically for Cuzco, Cuzco's poison.

@MrMarinus18

Жыл бұрын

If it was more historically accurate then all spear line units should have the Kamayuk's ability

An interesting unit matchup for the Kamayuk that I've never seen covered is the Steppe Lancer; suddenly fighting a unit with the same range makes Kamayuks look like every other infantry with pathing. They still have the bonus against cavalry, but it does change the battle by basically removing one of their key advantages.

@JKRevanBR

Жыл бұрын

It also removes the Steppe's own advantage in the same way, so they'd perform worse than knights, but better than scout line.

@BayWa4eva

Жыл бұрын

​​@@JKRevanBR i think they perform vastly better than knights because they nullify the kamayuk bonus and fight on even ground. it should become a situation where the best infantry to fight steppe lancers are kamayuks and the best cavalry to fight kamayuks are steppe lancers. unless you allow other civs where teutonic knights should beat kamayuks and maybe cataphracts beat steppe lancers.

@BayWa4eva

Жыл бұрын

​@@JKRevanBR i just did some post-imperial tests and elite kamayuks slaughter elite steppe lancers. however, not as bad as paladins. everything roughly 1800 res. 24 kamayuks 13 paladins kill 0 16 elite steppe lancers kill 3 for other unique cavalry vs those 24 elite kamayuks: 12 elite cataphracts win with 8 alive as the only one 16 elite coustilier kill 10 14 elite konnik and 15 elite leitis kill 7 each kamayuks destroy all melee horses in bigger fights with the exception of cataphracts.

@ezrahinkley6132

Жыл бұрын

the low hp of the lancers lets them down. They need to be able to rely on range or pierce armor to survive, and the bonus damage adds up too quick.

Honestly it makes sense that an infantry unique unit that can handle cavalry so well would make a civ like the Incas so dominant in a meta where cavalry is so predominant

@daftwulli6145

Жыл бұрын

also pretty good against goths infantry spam

@estebanatachaoarguedas6321

Жыл бұрын

@@daftwulli6145 Huskarl: "I fear no man. But THAT thing... [points Slinger] It scares me..."

@satyakisil9711

Жыл бұрын

You're getting it wrong, the Kamayuk isn't specifically anti cavalry but is both anti infantry and anti cavalry. It doesn't die to skirms, can safely retreat under archer fire and can bypass quickwalls to raid. Kamayuks are incredibly versatile.

@daftwulli6145

Жыл бұрын

@@estebanatachaoarguedas6321 LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

@nemou4985

Жыл бұрын

kamayuk isn't by any way "OP" as you suggest, as castle only unit, they are harder to mass, and their advantage is only if they are massed. This also meakes them more vulnerable to area damage. As gold.intensive infantry which aren't fast,. they also can't choose engagements vs cavalry which also always gets to engage when and if it wants. Also, the meta is very archer-heavy and kamayuks aren't good against those. In fact american civs can't even effectively counter archers in gold-efficient ways.

1 Range doesn't sound like much, but if you think about it, it gives you: - First strike - More Focus attack - more attacks, because less wasted time through movement - in very big stacks it theoretically doubles your damage output, because of the second row attacks

@rambard5599

Жыл бұрын

And not only doubles either, it could be as high as tripled if an enemy unit is completely surrounded, as more units can reach an enemy from the back row as they can from the front row.

@Grothgerek

Жыл бұрын

@@rambard5599 To be fair, if you are able to completly surround your enemy with two rows of units, it doesn't matter what kind of unit it is... its over. Except you surrounded a Paladin with 20 scouts or villagers.

@unaiestanconapelaez2526

Жыл бұрын

And also past a point reduces recived damage in melee due to the first enemy units to enter range dying before being able to strike

@stylesrj

Жыл бұрын

@@Grothgerek *Except you surrounded a Paladin with 20 scouts or villagers* Hey hey la hey! *clap*

@satriapratama3162

Жыл бұрын

Add attack behind wall

It's not just about getting units involved earlier. It's mostly about the fact that more units can focus on the same target, leading to faster kills, which equals a quicker reduction of incoming damage. The second largest benefit is that units don't need to move nearly as much, which minimises the amount of time they are not dealing damage.

One extra range was always a big bonus, remember steppe lancers on launch? One of their biggest advantages was one extra range.

@mushfiqurrahman1107

Жыл бұрын

Wait, they don't have it anymore?

@ivansolodyankin6820

11 ай бұрын

@@mushfiqurrahman1107 they do, but they were nerfed to the point when this bonus would not play such a major role.

Wish there'd been a swiss/helvetian civ with kamayuk style pikemen.. they deserve their place in age2 de, helvs were badass

@Steve-mx9rr

Жыл бұрын

maybe 2024 :)

@bannedcommander2932

Жыл бұрын

The Swiss should have been added long ago.

@karljohan2300

Жыл бұрын

always loved th ename helvetia since its pretty much th ename hell in swedish helvete

@DCdabest

Жыл бұрын

I reckon we coud fit in Swiss, Georgians and maaaybe Tibetan or Nepalese and call the DLC "The Mountain Kings" or something like that.

@rahulhuda123321

Жыл бұрын

Maybe give Swiss pikes to franks as unique unit, they were regularly hired by them.

It's funny that the Kamayuk takes advantage of other units' pathing issues, while their giant spears have no such problems. They're all in a huddle raising, lowering and swinging their ethereal spears right through each other, while the enemy is forced to tiptoe up and introduce themselves.

I think it might be interesting to look at what they do as a mix-in to a melee comp, as well. How well does the pathing/range advantage hold up in a mixed group of Kamayuks and, say, Pikes vs. Knights, as opposed to pure Pikes vs. Knights? Or Kamayuks + Longswords vs. pure Longswords? Is the advantage linear, or can you get 75% of the value with 25-33% Kamayuks?

@gherlwinfireson8582

Жыл бұрын

Interesting!

@Heinzpeteromfg

Жыл бұрын

my thoughts exactly. This would eliminate the need to max them from castles as well. giving you an advantage for just adding a few.

@jahrazzjahrazz8858

Жыл бұрын

Might be nice for Castle age, but in imperial it would be less interesting since you dont want to afford the Elite upgrade just to mix in a few

@ionehodge6838

Жыл бұрын

I suspect the advantage would be minimal. A 50/50 split for example there’s a 50/50 chance your kamayuk will be in front and your halb is going bump against your kamayuk

@An1llusion

Жыл бұрын

In an infinite resource scenario, that might be a good idea, but otherwise teching into Champion line (that you don't really want to make, as you're lacking Gambesons and Kamayuks essentially fill the role of Champion anyway) might be too costly and you'd rather have full Kamayuk supported by something else entirely. Support Kamayuks with Eagles or Slingers/Skirmishers. Perhaps the advantage would become notable in large scale battles, but in smaller scale battles the Kamayuk does too little damage to be that effective. I surmise you'd rather want to have more Kamayuks than fewer if you're making a mixed melee army composition.

I love the new Inca bonus because historically the Inca army was known for being large. Sometimes they just showed up to the enemy with a huge army to intimidate them into giving up.

One of the biggest hidden perks of the 1 range is that even if you opponent realizes the fight is worse than expected and tries to bail with their Knights had heal the fight will be way worse that vs pikes.

@IceSpoon

Жыл бұрын

Can confirm. I was playing against AI, and I was confidently riding my Celt paladins over its base. The AI responded with mass Kamayuks. It was a slaughter.

I'm so happy Incas are better now. Always loved their unique units.

@FirstLast-wk3kc

Жыл бұрын

Me too!

@johnsmith5139

Жыл бұрын

same here. was always my favorite.

They also move 10% faster than Militia line.

love the deep dives like this. thanks spirit! a llama for you 🦙

Like the Incas review video from 7 years ago, the extra range is paramount for the KAMAYUK, as it always deals the first hit, and even though the attack is very low (only 2 more than the Halberdier in Imperial) it is impressive as a defeat A lot of infantry that has a higher attack, is one of the few infantry that if you apply "micro" it has a better effect, although not so much the truth. In conclusion, it is much better with that food discount Bonus and that in addition to being good against most infantry, it is also good against cavalry, which is what the Kamayuk is designed for.

One thing you missed is that kamayuks perform much better against archers that are bunched up against a building or treeline than other units. Because of their extra range, a lot more kamayuks can attack the archers at the same time compared to knights or eagles for example. Would be interesting to see the difference that makes.

@The-jy3yq

Жыл бұрын

Probably not a whole lot, seeing how Kamayuks are only _really_ available in late Castle Age, where Archer numbers really start to climb up, meaning they can now handle their foes pretty nicely Unless you're Fast Castling to drop a Castle on your Archer civ opponent, that is

Also of note: They burst into tears at the sight of Cataphracts. I didn't expect another video so soon, but it's always nice to see. :)

One of my fav unique units, always wished a civ got a unique bonus/tech to add the +1 range to the spear-line.

Dude I was like "meh, whatever let's watch" but what you showed here is a reason why I love your channel. It goes so beyond AOE2, it demonstrates mechanics on a much deeper level. Thank you for what you are doing.

Can you do the AOE2DE versus history series for Incas too?

I feel like all infantry need a small range boost to help with pathing, since that has always been their biggest weakness in big fights. Perhaps just 0.5 or 0.3 range not enough to attack over each other, but just enough to help them find targets.

Always thought it was strange that Incas are the ones to get the long reaching anti-cavalry spear over say the Celts (like at Bannockburn or Flodden) or the Flems (Flemish Pikeman) or the Italians or Teutons (Swiss and Landsknechts respectively)

It would be nice to have a mixed scenario like 10halbs + 10 kamayuks vs 20 paladins. It is most common case since you produce from castles and from barracks as well. Also if halbs die first than then it must be really cost effective.

@anlkaplan6280

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, and it is very probable that halbs die first since halbs will be on the front line due to kamayuks' range

I wish you could make a formation with pikemen in the from and kamayuks in the back

@ButzPunk

Жыл бұрын

iirc units will line up in formation based on their range (at least that seems to be how it works with box formation), so the kamayuks should stand behind the pikes

@ballehakan

Жыл бұрын

@@ButzPunk you might be completely right. My computer have been broken for a year now so I haven't been able to play.

It's one of my favorate units because it's so easy to use. You can just spam them. Nothing really hard counters them.

@ijazkhan3335

Жыл бұрын

that long thing they are holding made me think they'll be super strong against cavalry units :D

@moon2schyzo

Жыл бұрын

Well..main limitation is that you need s castle..and hosnestly hand cannons, onager and scorpion line absolutely destroys them. Especialy the onger is a problem where you need to spend significant gold on sniping them with either eagles or monks..but yes definitely an underused unit!

@ramk2443

Жыл бұрын

Archers do

@moon2schyzo

Жыл бұрын

@@ramk2443 Well depends on the number and the type of engagement kamayuks take..they do have unusualy high hp and pierce armor for an infantry unit. But HCs is a different story, they destory them

@zeroyuki92

Жыл бұрын

Hand cannoneers?

Loving the consistent uploads

Incas have been a favorite of mine since they were added in HD edition, and still among the one I play the most today. I'm glad Slingers finally got their 1 attack back, and Kamayuk have never let me down.

A small correction if I may: at 7:55, you state that pikemen withstand 11 arrows from crossbows, but you didn't take into account that crossbowmen have an attack bonus of +3 against them, so they actually only withstand 7 arrows. Curiously enough, you do mention the bonus when talking about arbalest and halberdiers.

Kamayuks are definitely one of my favorite unique units… I wish that the idea of melee units having range was more common… especially for infantry where formation played a big role, I.e. Swiss pikemen

Instant subscribe for mentioning Lancchester's square law!

Glad to see a video on Kamayuks! They are just such a good unique unit that you can rely on to just mash into enemy formations and win

Kamayuks show why 90% of medival armies where polearm soldiers.

Would be nice to compare them with Cataphracts, Steppe Lancers and Ghulam (even if they're an anti-archer unit)

I love the Kamayuk. But what I'd love even more would be more MANY civilizations to have access to an elite Long Pike unit -- Halberds just don't do justice to the Pike & Shot tactics of the 1400 & 1500s, and this style of warfare existed all over the world!

@steretsjaaj2368

Жыл бұрын

Agree 102%. Maybe a mod could do that?

@robbylava

Жыл бұрын

@@steretsjaaj2368 would be great to see! It's definitely a project I intend on tackling at some point myself

@Naccarat

Жыл бұрын

I wouldn't mind a technology giving +1 range to halbardiers, maybe as a unique tech for a future civ. But giving it to all civs would really mess up the balance of game

@steretsjaaj2368

Жыл бұрын

@@Naccarat maybe a lite version of druzhina style would be more appropriate, but yeah.. halbs were much deadlier than militia line we have atm. They could buff them up, but then it's balance issue again, I guess..

@steretsjaaj2368

Жыл бұрын

@@robbylava if I had spare time (more willpower :D ) I'd revive that old AoK mod Age of Chivalry: Hegemony which had all the goodies we're discussing

As usual, you offer us a great video, thank you! There is just one point that has not been addressed, and that I would have liked to see appear in the video: Since eagle warriors are better against archers, if the enemy plays 2 unit types like cavalry + archer, does mixing eagle warriors with kamayuke affect the effectiveness of the number, and if so of how many.

9:50 holy that pathing, the Viking on the left just walks around and doesn't attack at all before they die

damn that outro music bops!

I wish you had also looked at using split stance against Kamayucks. If Paladins arrive from different directions, it could significantly reduce the Kamayuck's advantage due to less "hiding behind the lines.

I think the Kamayuks being good is more of a statement about how poor the melee pathing is in this game rather than the merits of the unit itself

awesome stuff! :-)

this ranged pikeman mechanic would have made a lot more sense in AOE3 which starts during the rein of the tercio.

What a great old school spirit video

Looks like the Incas found their new groove after the latest patch.

Its all coming together

Perhaps melee pathing would work better giving say half a tile of range to all melee units?

@Hjortur95

Жыл бұрын

very clever idea

@Naccarat

Жыл бұрын

Half a tile seems a bit too much. Maybe a quarter or a fifth of a tile of melee range would be ok

Interesting, and how good are the new bombard towers for the byz now?

one of my favorite unit!

It's just as with Steppe Lancers, the "1" range allows them to almost completely bypass the pathfinding issues this 1999 engine has, as well as allow them to focus fire on a single unit like standard ranged units do.

In your video "Attack Move logic and Search Radius" you stated that units target the weaker unit if it's about 0.5 tile farther than closest one. If it's still true then it would explain why they are so strong in bigger engagements. Normal unit hast to calculate shortest path to target considering obstacles, so it has max 2-3 units within that 0.5 tile wiggle room. Kamayuks from 2nd line, after killing their opponent can choose to attack already weakened one. But that would require further testing to confirm.

the ability to do archer like stacking tactics to limit melee area by having them stood in a corner of tree's or such also helps a bunch

finally my fav unit being thrown into the spotlight

Ooooo i remember watching your Inca overview way back then and them becoming my favourite Civ ever since! Very glad to see they're doing better. I sure hope they don't get nerfed.

I wish you could make a video of Kamayuks against Battle Elephants and Steppe Lancers also :)

please start a civ overview series for the new return of rome civs for aoe 2 players, appreciate all your highly informative videos

Will you make videos on the AoE1 civs?

All tech for Inca is fun. I recreated pike and shot warfare with kamayuks and hand cannons

Looking at the engagement pathing in aoe2 reminds me of how I hesitate when going to the checkout lane in costco. Pathing would be tricky even in real world human fights.

I haven't seen a video on this yet, but if a unit gets converted, do they then adopt the civ bonuses of the new civ? For example if the Japanese converted a Kamayuk would the unit pick up extra attack speed? Follow up video idea; which are the most powerful uses of that if they do pick up new bonuses?

I wanted to see Inca all the way back in The Conquerors, and they became my favorites when they came out. I wouldn't be surprised if they get nerfed someday, but for now I'm enjoying their moment.

good job ^^

Spanish player would envy, because they would have similar kind of imperial age unit, terchio pikeman.

I don't really mind Kamayuks, I kinda just use them as an extra unit to work alongside Swords, Pikes, and Eagles. I let their bonus happen naturally rather than forcing them to use their bonus. They're not my favorite Mesoamerican unique unit, that honor goes to the Jaguar Warrior(at least until Xhotal Warriors get Cav Armor upgrades), but they're still a good unit that I use a lot as Incas. But we all know they should deal bonus damage against Llamas, but a vulnerability to poison that turns them into Llamas.

I never would have guessed they were so badass.

Yeah, Peru man, thanks for the video

4:39 swordsman on the bottom going on a trip

@thepyropaladin8608

Жыл бұрын

Classic melee pathing for DE

at low elo, Elephants are really standing out, especially Khmer Ballista elephants, it will be good to see some videos on those.

This song is fire! I like it!

Had a slinger Incas custom game recently. 3 vs 3 They just beefed the Incas player with so much early resources, it was a swarm of Kamayuks in my base. I can still hear the screams.

Could you do a Top 5 best longswords video?

What about mixing in a few Pikes/Halbs as cannonfoder? You would get maximum usage out of the range, if you had melee units in the front row they can attack over, right?

One interesting thing to look into deeper could be if a mixture of Helbardier and Kamayuk is even more efficient for the Incas.

One thing I would like to see added is, the point at which the unit eventually trades with knights and swordsmen. When I'm playing, I'd like a reference point to look for when taking engagements. Ex if they have +5 your numbers then it'll be an even trade.

@markvanderwerf8592

Жыл бұрын

Impossible to give this in an easy form. For example you could say for example roughly 4:5 kamayuk:knights but it depends not only on the ratio but the absolute sizes as well. And these kind of things depend heavily on micro and chance.

I was missing the battle against crossbows or arbalesters - I guess the range makes it easier to get more of them actually attacking the archers, assuming the archers don't run away? Also, how fast are they in comparison to the archers - can they catch them? Also, I wonder how a combination of kamayuks with other infantry units in front of them works out.

"Your Kamayuk has first strike" Magic the gathering reference? O

You should have fitted a Lanchester Law model to your kamayuk tests. :p

It is just a perfect example of how powerful the range is. There is basically a cap of how many units can engage one in melee. And primary advantage of any ranged units is bypassing that. Kamayuks have tiny range, but still enough to give them monster of an advantage in large numbers, but even in smaller battles, they simply do not have to travel into position as far as true melee unit would have. And they also get a first strike against anything charging at them.

Did you consider engaging from a patrol maneuver? Used correctly, some units can stack on top of one another. That could make an even more drastic difference. I have not tried it with Kamayuks. I used that a lot with Galactic Battlegrounds (AOE2 engine) and AT-ATs. There is was the large size and slow speed that made stacking desirable because you could not get all of your units to engage otherwise.

I think they are pretty good now, and balance. While the extra range makes them a nice all around units, the are a juicy target for mangonels as they tend to stay far enough from friendly melee units that they always get inside the safe to aggro zone of the magonel. Just keep them busy with hussars or pikes and sacrifice them if you must in a similar fashion when facing Teutonic knights.

In the comparison with amazon warriors, did you account for attack rate?

I've always hold ground -> stop microed kamayks into melee fights in a tight formation to ensure the back row is "filled" when first enemy gets to melee range. the first attack moved Kamayk that gets into range also stops there and starts fighting at its max range blocking the kamayks behind him leading to weird pathing issues, when the enemy unit chooses to not close in with it's opposite number, come to second row kamayks melee range, and bunch up on the closest kamayk instead. kamayks tend to last longer individually aswell since they aren't getting surrounded by hostile units when snug in their tight line leaving them alive to attack longer. They can scatter a bit when attack moving and miss swings in the beginning of a fight. Turn defensive or agresive stance on after the formation is engaged to prevent them sitting there passive when you focus microing something else. Minor damage boost but easy to do. Ofc don't bother with it if enemy has siege.

I'm curious about how effective they are in mixed groups. Like having halbs in front and Kamayuks behind to go against cavalry.

Have you experimented with patrolling kamayuks on stand ground stance? In large groups they tend to stack like crazy multiplying the effect of the +1 range.

Oh yeah, it's all coming together now.

How much does this effect do for the truly ranged melee units like Throwing Axemen, Gbetos, and Chakram Throwers?

I’ve always through the extra range would make them great to mix in with trash, or other units like eagles or swordsmen. A few kamayuks behind halbs makes for a great murder ball

What about step lancers and light cav? It would be nice to add them to the comparison as well (instead of camel riders)

Please make the slingers video! Thanks in advance

One fact you forgot to mention is their +20 bonus damage against elephants making them one of the best counter units apart from monks

Kamayuks engaging against cavalry has to be one of the most satisfying aoe battles

would it be a bad ideia to give the 1 range to other melee units in the game? That could make the pathing feel less awkward

Never heard of Amazon Warriors. When were they added?

One of these for the Teutonic Knight?

Can we re investigate steppe lancers vs knights? Focused on possibly on Mongol steppe lancers as their 30% extra hp make them possibly most viable.

If Kamayuks get first strike matters so much in what makes then exceptionally better than on-paper stats, where do Throwing Axe Men and Gbetos stand after all this push towards making Infantry more viable? Both are stat-wise inferior to Kamayuk on HP and tanky-ness in IMP, but does their extra range make their role pseudo-archer alternative as range support for TXmen/pseudo cav-archer raider for Gbeto the only viable play or is there more to it?

the Kamayuk is definately like the steppe lancer (well, in terms of really) how two ganging up on one knight equals to +16 bonus cav damage, and while that would mean a pikeman doing 26 damage, two Kamayuks doing 7+7+8 bonus damage times the 8 by 2, and you're doing a gangup of damage alot sooner then the pikemen can reach the cav unit, making the Kamayuk an interesting pikemen that also can throw down like the militia line.

this looks to me that all pathingissues of meleeunits would be solved if they all had 0,5-1 range. just look how derpy single units just walk around the fight and getting stabbed or maybe target refresh more, so they check all 0,5s if there a target close and attack this particular because pathing itself looks fine, they find a way around the obstacles, theres just a reason they walk around the obstacle, they want to attack the target they initially locked on to, irgnoring all further targets they pass. its just badly coded targetpriorities imo Kamayuks excel only for this reason that they can stay on target longer lol

I had the impression that they were really effective against elephants. Could you check that out too?

something that would be cool would be if, assuming the "return to rome" expansion is successful, the developers re-texturing the kamayuk and turning it into a hoplite for the greeks.