Listen on the go at all podcast locations: anchor.fm/demystifysci DEMYSTICON 2024, Austin TX 4/6-7 2024: www.eventbrite.com/e/demysticon-2024-tickets-727054969987 Material solutions to quantum spookiness: www.youtube.com/@MaterialAtomics Short films @DemystifySciInvestigates: kzread.info/dron/UfzVdgNu2xLThgM2qQZmSQ.html

@a.randomjack6661

6 ай бұрын

⚠ You have a crypto investment scam in your comments. It's the one with most replies. Those are usually bots. First line is 'It's been dumping and pumping in this range for ages! It's technically just going sideways, sideways means generally stagnant' If you don't block them, you'll get a lot more spam. 🤷‍♂ P.S Thanks for another eye opener 👍

I have followed Michael Hudson and Steven Keen for 13 years! I was volunteering at Northfield MN public schools when a young college professor, from St Olaf, who volunteered with me, sent me the Four Horsemen documentary and explained MMT to me and got me signed up to support Bernie Sanders. This college professor wasn’t dumbed down by our financial sector. I campaigned for Bernie. I knocked on doors and was my precinct leader in 2016 presidential campaign, in LeSeuer county. Every precinct in MN voted for Bernie Sanders in the 2016 primaries. Every Single One! Yet Amy Klobuchar and Al Franken cast their vote for Hillary Clinton. I went home that night and cried so hard I was sobbing! Trump then wins, the first thing he does is remove the Dodd Frank act placed on banks by Obama after the 2008 financial crash, then gives the banks 3 trillion in the Cares Act ( which would have been illegal if the Dodd Frank act was in place) and puts Steve Mnuchin as Secretary of our Treasury, a California banker who was committing banking fraud, but wasn’t prosecuted by the CA AG as she is as corrupted as Amy Klobuchar. Kamal Harris was CA AG who refused to prosecute Steve Mnuchin and is our VP under Biden! I have seven grandchildren under age 7 and an eighth one due in February. Who the hell is fighting for them?

@DemystifySci_Podcast

6 ай бұрын

We are!

@averayugen7802

6 ай бұрын

Even Bernie? No more 4 me. I wanted him to run again but no more now. That said, thank you for that story. I am lost at this point. The "Gotcha-mob" seems to have gotten me too

@L98fiero

6 ай бұрын

@@averayugen7802 Sorry to have to break it to you, but they are all the same, including Bernie. As Michael has said, maybe in a different video, the only way to fix the problem is to get rid of the Democratic party as they are the worst, and then the Republican party

@urrywest

6 ай бұрын

@@DemystifySci_Podcast I follow Hudson and Kelton.... All others need to take numbers... Hudson says a lot of good things about Keen.

@urrywest

6 ай бұрын

​@@averayugen7802 Bernie was good for how he changed the narrative.... An endevor to understand Hudson is like understanding the narrative on crack.... Althogh we are quite small in numbers.

Two of my favourite economists. Michael has lived the history that others must read about. An absolute treasure

@GETJUSTICE4U

6 ай бұрын

A great comment.

@urrywest

6 ай бұрын

@@GETJUSTICE4U I know Hudson.... He says great things about Keen.

As a fellow Aussie, I find the banter and energy between Michael and Steeve to be magic😊. Such brilliant minds. Thanks for the podcast DmystifySci!!!!

@michaelhart1597

4 ай бұрын

How fortunate for you to recognize this. Their analysis is spot-on. The truth that they are conveying is so cogent, that if the public could appreciate it, is enough to cause a revolution. I hope more people are exposed to what they are talking about.

At 17:59 Dr. Bendebury makes a fascinating question that was only partially answered. I hope my comment adds to the record. Recall, after WW2, most of Europe and Japan were in shambles. All US infrastructure and factories were untouched and intact! Europe and Japan required to rebuild their destroyed infrastructure and to re-industrialize. Recall, the "Marshall Plan." So they imported vast amounts of resources to assist in this rebuilding effort. They bought these commodities (from basic foodstuff to constructing material) mainly from the US. The US exported to these countries and its balance of payments as a creditor soared! The US treasury bulged with gold. The WW2/New Deal taxation scheme that had the wealthy pay 91% of their income still prevailed--a freeze on excessive earnings, so to speak. This excess, taxed wealth got invested into social wages for the poor and the middle class. Meanwhile, Americans went crazy manufacturing and exporting thousands of commodities to these wide-open markets with a near-unlimited demand for just about everything one can imagine! The US had nearly a 100% employment with a living wage, pension, free college education, libraries, parks, museums, two-weeks paid vacation, an affordable house in the suburbs, savings accounts, etc. However, once Europe and Japan got back on their feet, they began exporting their goods worldwide and dollars flowed back to those countries. With this _competition_ from abroad, US wages stagnated. The US's world-exporting dynamism slowed gradually but noticeably. A series of economically-challenged Congresses lowered the tax base on those who could afford to pay taxes and transferred tax-liability to those who could least afford it. Sickening. As a boomer, I lived it. And the "Happy Days" dissolved into nostalgia... Be well.

@DemystifySci_Podcast

4 ай бұрын

A+ commenting game, thanks for taking the time to leave your insights

Amazing to see these two together. Didn't know they know each other but it makes perfect sense.

@urrywest

6 ай бұрын

I trust Hudson... He says good things about Keen...

Two of the most original...and revolutionary...economists in the world today. I have read many books by both men, and I can tell you, I learned more about how the working world really works than in most "authorized" economic textbooks. When the pair get together it is a real feast for thought!

@C_R_O_M________

6 ай бұрын

Even from the beginning he spews absolute nonsense! Untruths.

Amazing conversation. I wish more people realised that modern economics, while it claims to be a science and uses mathematics to give that impression, is actually an ideology.

@dameongeppetto

4 ай бұрын

Astrology is more scientific than economics. Not a joke.

The key thing to understand about the capitalist mode of production is that it was a halfway revolution out of feudalism. Feudal society was a society based on private ownership of land. This land (and the labor on it) was inalienable, meaning it couldn't be exchanged to a new owner as a commodity, it stayed within the family or church from generation to generation. The bourgeoisie alienated land from its feudal owners, meaning they transformed land (and the labor on it) into a commodity that could be exchanged from one owner to another. The word capitalist comes from the Latin word for "head." The capitalist mode of production can be imagined as an economic guillotine that cuts off the head of one owner and "recapitulates" ownership under a new head. Hence, a "capitalist" was someone who took ownership of (i.e. who alienated, commoditized) land and labor for middle class business activity. When we use the word "capital" we usually think of money, but capital is really ownership. For example, when a capitalist buys shares in a company, they are exchanging ownership of money for ownership of future profits which that company generates with the money. Money is only one form of capital, but it is the most important because it is the most liquid form of capital i.e. it can be most easily exchanged on the market for ownership of other assets. By alienating land and labor, that is to say, by turning them into perfectly mobile commodities which could be exchanged in a market society, the bourgeoisie transformed ownership itself into a commodity. Thus, land, labor and capital (capital=ownership) became the three factors of production. There were no factors of production under feudalism, because land and labor were not yet alienable. I agree that Hudson is generally right about the evolution from industrial to financial capitalism, but I would stress that capitalism was not synonymous with industry or finance, capital was about ownership. As I said, capitalism was only a halfway revolution out of feudalism: its revolutionary character was to make land and labor (and thus ownership of them) alienable and perfectly mobile (i.e. exchangeable, transferrable) within a market society. But while making the factors of production alienable, capitalism retained private ownership of them, so that a key element of feudalism (private ownership of social resources) never went away. Both feudal and liberal-capitalist society were based on private ownership. The root of the conflict between capitalism and socialism in the early 1800s was that many people wanted a full revolution, not a halfway revolution out of feudalism. They wanted to transition to collective ownership and abolish private ownership altogether. This was called socialism. What was at stake for the socialists was that the bourgeoisie were creating a capitalist society which reproduced the dynamic of feudalism in which private owners ruled as gods over their private property. And even worse, these new capitalists had abolished feudalism without abolishing private property, so all the religious obligations of feudalism were gone. The worker could no longer expect obligations from the capitalist, as the serf could from the landlord, because capitalist society was ruled by the cash nexus. Nobody had any obligations to anyone anymore, so in that sense capitalism was even worse than feudalism, and pretty much everyone from lord to peasant to priest to worker hated the new capitalist society, except for the bourgeoisie, who were its makers and beneficiaries.

@Max0r847

6 ай бұрын

A return to the law of the jungle, where the only rule is what you can get away with.

@FozTylar

6 ай бұрын

Very insightful. thanks

@mozy106

6 ай бұрын

& capitalism is now transmuting back into (technocratic) feudalism. Man has always been usurped by the ungodly money lenders in one way or another.

@dameongeppetto

4 ай бұрын

Very well fleshed out thesis. Thank you for your insight.

You can't create an ideal system or set of rules that cannot be corrupted over time by human nature, so the only pragmatic solution to the abuse of power and opportunity is educating everyone in why the system is important, what it prevents, and how it is at risk, and then do your best to defend the means of transparency and avoiding regulatory capture or isolated extremist indoctrination are maintained. Social systems are only as good as the people who are in them and the difference between what is pursued and what is practiced is always subject to rhetorical manipulation unless everyone is taught the value of objective reasoning and how to develop the skills to use it and by extension receive the best accuracy in their evaluations and analysis while being able to see through and disarm those who would try and game power and profit to the detriment of society. This was one of the best and most comprehensive economic discussions and breakdowns that I've seen over the years, thanks. These are great for sharing with people to promote greater awareness and maybe in doing so avoid the worst potential outcomes of the future.

This debate should be showed in every high school and be part of every academic course around economic sciences

@urrywest

6 ай бұрын

These kinds of arguments were in my only AP class in highshool. At the time I was struggleing with the antiquated psych industrial complex that was villifying me.... To be sure it was weird but I am in great health where some of my contemporaries are not.

1:57:08 “I’m thinking about even the University of California system, which is a public system…and in the 1980s the tuition was $700 per semester…” You didn’t go back far enough. _For over a century,_ from 1868, with the “Organic Act,” the UC system was *free* for residents of California-and proudly so. (In the 1920s, there were “incidental fees” added of about $25, for parking and the like.) That all changed with Gov. Ronald Reagan in the early 1970s and by 1975, even state residents were paying $600 in fees and tuition.

Two of the best economists on the planet! ❤️👏🏽👏🏻👏🏿👏🏾

Hey, this was great. I'm an economist and I know what these guys are talking about. I knew them separately, but it doesn't surprise me they know each other. Absolutely brilliant show.

@C_R_O_M________

6 ай бұрын

Now tell me you support the BS he started with! I want to laugh!

@andreselectrico

6 ай бұрын

@@C_R_O_M________ What are you exactly talking about...?

@C_R_O_M________

6 ай бұрын

@@andreselectrico look for my comments in the thread. Pretty detailed stuff there. Sort for "newest first" to find them easier.

@dameongeppetto

4 ай бұрын

​@@andreselectricohe thinks everything is the fault of feminism. Pay no mind to the incel dolt.

Great understanding of the problems of society of the economy. Tax only unearned income and land owners.

I have really enjoyed an outstanding conversation and I have learned a lot and been helped to sort out concepts. Now I'm reading Michael's books. I am a geologist and I studied during 79-83 already then three professors on Stockholm University were mad that they were not allowed to respond to the lies about climate change in Swedish TV and other media! We could trace the origin of this manipulation to the Rockefeller foundation. It is part of the whole concept of deindustrialization and depopulation that the Rockefeller and Gates families have been dealing with since the late 19th century when they met. The climate lies began to spread during the 60s. The so-called climate scientists are just as out fantasizing with data models with made-up data as the financial kleptorats are, when they say there are no alternatives. They are all the same group. I myself have taken samples in northern Sweden's sediments in lakes which show that when the ice cap had melted, the climate in northern Sweden at the Arctic Circle was very warm like today's southern Bavaria. same plants and animals. There were no glaciers there and the hunters and fishermen lived well. The polar bears had less area around the poles to live on but will not become extinct as the climate freaks claim. There will be no sea level rise I had the world's most trusted researcher on the subject Nils -Axel Mörner at Stockholm University. Climatechange is part of finance theft, deindustrialization, depopulation concept and driven by the same finance kleptocrats! Rockefellers were great sponsors to Third Reich. Lebensraum is repainted in green sustainable climatesmart color now.

@lnsk

6 ай бұрын

Bravo! It is frustrating to see intelligent people fall for the scam when they see corruption in other areas. I leave similar, though much shorter comments on this also. Maybe the light bulb will turn on in the future when the economics of AGW become more clear. It's also with a bit of hubris that man thinks he can affect the climate system of Planet Earth. Are we going to control the sun and other planets that affect our climate?

@C_R_O_M________

6 ай бұрын

The first guy started with a reference to "sea level rise" and such BS! Not to mention the lie that the State gave up education, healthcare, transportation, communication to privateers as those things ever belonged to the State! These are ridiculous ideas and straight up lies!

@goransteen5411

6 ай бұрын

@@C_R_O_M________ The sea level increases are pure intimidation that the financial elite are pushing to gain power over society! The active dept creation is Just as these knowledgeable and skilled economists said. The financial elite pushed through organized indebtedness of public and private businesses to earn interest and actively transfer purchasing power from those who were forced into debt dependence! The finance elite enforced that the nation-states would not be able to limit the companies' movement of capital and tax bases, This is the basis of the deindustrialization that they want to implement. They could place the companies the bases in tax havens with zero taxation. Then they moved the companies to Asia. Western politicians, regardless of party color, today cannot pay their public expenses with their tax revenues, but must borrow from the same aristocracy. The western finance elite has totaly corrupted nations in the west

The All-Star Economists Team up! Sweet!

@MattAngiono

6 ай бұрын

BTW, I also apologize for referring to them as economists instead of futurists or archeologists, but I do think our what they do as ACTUAL economics because they actually think about realistic resource management, which is what the word is supposed to mean. Unfortunately, these days it's mostly the opposite, like everything else in this world

HUDMAN IS GREAT AND I LOVE STEVE KEEN TOO!!!WHAT A GREAT PRESENTATION!!!

Awesome! Love the long format, and love the "I seek understanding" as opposed to "I wanna justify my worldview" questions. Definitely earned a subscriber.

0:25 Answer: capitalism is better understood as “competitive self determination” which is better contextualized as “why people do what they do”. It’s a guessing game for the most part but has several endemic psychological artifacts that everyone should learn and know. Competitive economics (aka capitalism) fosters and engenders 1. Vanity 2. Secrecy 3. Coercion 4. Corruption 5. Anxiety 6. Despair 7. Chance. All social problems can be deconstructed and solved using this formula. Just plug in the facts and you’ll see. Try it. Its infallible.

Great show , thank you for taking this seriously.

If one wants to understand the world, start listening to those two. Michael Hudson & this other, Australian guy. 😊

The notion of owning the land always puzzled indigenous peoples. They understood they belonged to the land. In parts of Asia this is still the attitude among hill tribes and farmers. Before a house is built or the land cultivated a spirit house is put up to let the spirits know that the land is only being borrowed for a time, and it will be returned to the local spirits when the humans move on. And even in Bangkok when a luxury hotel or new bank is built there is a suitably luxurious spirit house strategically placed on the property. In the west our super structures are monuments to our dominance over nature. And our possessions are the mark of our strength and importance.

Wow brilliant and mindblowing!! I watched the whole thing and haven't even satiated my appetite yet. Please have Drs. Hudson & Keen on more often if you can!!

Thank you so much for this excellent lecture, I learned so much. I only wish more people will watch this! Please Like and Share! ❤❤

These two guests had more fun together on your show than I have seen them have anywhere else.

@steinbauge4591

6 ай бұрын

The conversations with Pepe Escobar also, and the Duran

10:20, yes, indeed, the 1% is making money on the backs of the 99% but NOT because government doesn't intervene with the market but precisely because it does and does so profoundly!

@socratesagain7822

4 ай бұрын

Recall, the ending in "Chinatown," "He _owns_ the police!" In the US, financial capitalists _own_ the "government" (actually, elected legislator post- _Citizens United_ ) which they tell to use legitimate government coercion, i.e. laws, to allow financiers free rein to drive the 99% into serfdom. Come on, take a course in Poli Sci, or better yet, run for office and _experience_ what I mean. The corporate MSM _narrative_ must be even more seductive than I want to believe... Be well.

Hope all is well with you guys. Haven't had too much time to indulge in the process of deep thought,,,,,, working on the deeper process of staying alive and out of trouble. Very much looking forward to spending the time listening and watching this interview,,,,,, I'm sure is going to be incredible ..... thanks so much for delivering the goods....... you guys work so hard...... and I wish you all the success in the world....... PS nice haircut..... both you guys are total movie stars.....🤭

@DemystifySci_Podcast

6 ай бұрын

🙏

@johnschreiner8550

6 ай бұрын

My hat's off to you, Brother. I spent most of my 40 years trying to stay alive and out of trouble, and I didn't make the time to learn from folks like Michael & Steve.

Each person has an unalienable right to Life, to Liberty, & to everything that is needed ( not wanted but needed ) for a Decent Livelihood with which to pursue Happiness.

@antediluvianatheist5262

6 ай бұрын

Congrats, you're a socialist.

Hammurabi knew that you had to cut the oligarchs down to size often, or you risked them gathering their debt slaves together into an army to fight you, the king. This would end the good life the people enjoyed under the king, with regular debt cancellations, so they would no longer be prepared to fight to preserve their homeland. Fight to remain a slave? Coercion doesn't make for good fighters. And who would be prepared to build the infrastructure society needed if they were all having a miserable life in debt peonage to the oligarchs? Debt cancellation worked, it was the best outcome for society, whichever way you cut it. The same principal is true today. It changed under Rome where a "debt was a debt that must be repaid". Unfortunately its the Roman model we copy & use today.

If one wants to understand the world, start listening to those two; Dr. Michael Hudson & this other, Australian guy, Dr. Steve Keen. 😊

Professor Hudson brought me here and I’m glad that I found this channel great program

An important issue not discussed by Professors Hudson or Keen is whether the corporate form of ownership itself is an unwarranted form of privilege granted to some at the expense of the many. Would, for example, laws that favor employee-owned enterprises significantly reduce income and wealth inequality?

@samaval9920

6 ай бұрын

For 1 example today under capitalism, see Mondagon workers co op conglomerate innaSpwin a r Euxoadi See 🕸 teal so Richard Wolff & Democracy at Work I sll these explain that co op

Great video. Thanks. Highly recommend you contact and interview Jason Hickel to talk about Democratic Eco-Socialism and de-growth. Jason is an economist who's written and talked a lot about how to get to a better world. He's super clear and smart and passionate. I think he'll be popular on your channel. And Jason fully gets MMT; a big bonus. Cheers! 🥰

I have been listening to conversations like this one for a long time and I have to say this struck me as particularly good. It combines a lot of what I already know to be true but told from an incredible vantage point and with untold quantities of wisdom. On the top of my head the words to express my gratitude escape me. It's true for every time in human history that a small minority of folks see the world they occupy for what it really is, and these guys have the receipts to back it up. What a privilege.

How is it that this conversation never addressed energy, resources and our excess indulgence and wealth are not mentioned?

Please do another interview with Hudson, Keen, and white-collar criminologist William K. Black.

Thank you for making this possible!

Love these guys. Long live both.

This is one of your most important podcast maybe the most.

Depressing how much grip the 0.1% has on the rest of us. Very hard for people to understand what’s going on to 😢

Thank you for educating youth for free as we should all be teachers the most satisfying profession except a physician nurse that finance capitalism harmed in 2020.

The worst possible outcome is the only possible outcome. This has been the arc of history. What makes these times any different?

In italian universities students of economics do still study History Of Economic Thoughts. It's either standalone or part of Economy-I course (the basics, whereas Economy-II is basically international economy)

At 4:28: Finance capitalism, Pentagon capitalism, aims to maximize the cost of production (the opposite of industrial capitalism). ... Industrial capitalism sought to cut costs, and how do you do it? You do it by having government play a rising role (making sure that costs are not increased by monopolies). Any natural monopoly (communications, healthcare, education, transportation) is going to be taken into the public domain. ~ Michael Hudson

What a fantastic conversation!

Its amazing to see Prof Keen these days, Immso happy he found a friend in Michael 🙏🌻🐝❤️

Hell yeah, my two favorite economists.

Serious question...would the planet be better or worse off, if finance capitalism was never a thing?

@kirstinstrand6292

5 ай бұрын

That's a good question. Now that it's done, is it impossible to blend a more equitable society?

Excellent talk. Thank you. Well done to all of you.

I think a big issue with climate change activism is that group of people doing ridiculous shit publicly, such as stopping traffic in German highways and gluing their hands to the pavement (an example I've seen often in my Homeland). They do more harm than good because the average person sees them and feel disgusted by their behaviour and often will just disregard whatever cause they're advocating for without bothering in learning more about it. If people would instead listen to Michael and Steve talk, or would watch Nate Hagens interviews, or or or; there's no other alternative than being truly concerned and wanting to change the way we think about economics and how the world operates. I come from an academic background in finance and economics and have worked in finance ever since and what I described above is exactly what happened to me. These people doing stupid shit like impeding one get to work made me completely uninterested in the topic until I came across Steve's books and some interviews that helped me see the light. This is how we change things. It'll be a tremendous cultural war but I have faith that in a few years when boomers are out of the map, Millennials and the Gen Xers will have a better chance of making policy that can truly have an impact. Renewable energy doesn't make a dent, we need to go nuclear now.

Thank you for sharing this delightful banquet table of food for thought.

2:03:30 i think that's less of a problem than classes that don't lead to employment, especially while america continues to outsource jobs to people who got free or low cost educations. The jig is up. Is it not? Still so many in the matrix.

This was a genuine pleasure to listen through. You guys should get Richard Wolff on the podcast, he's an advocate for democtratizing the workplace.

Fantastic podcast, thank you!

And who is leading the most prestigious universities? And who is leading many of the financial institutions that extract rents? They share more than just their economic interests.

Amazing interview!!!

Amazing show!

Aaron Good is a historian your age who gets it about the empire.

The “Capitalism” we have… Is OF, the freedom to choose. That’s the best system you can have. All you can do, To create behavior/action, Is incentivize…CONVINCE. Till then…you and EVERYBODY else, Has the freedom to CHOOSE, What to do with your money, circumstance and/or career.

I officially declare this is one of the most important videos on youtube. #share

Excellent talk! Thanks!

"Economists. If you laid them all down in a straight line, they'd still all point in different directions.". Harry S. Truman

00:18 - Wise indeed to learn from the 2 Wise Men ! ! ! !

First time watching and made it to the end. Great Podcast and you got a new Subscriber :)

thanks so much for the timestamps!

It seems that education is the most important thing for humanity. In both technology and in ethics.

Good Lord what an eye opener

Thank you for the co versatiins. Much appreciated

Tremendous combination Hudson and Keen. They really get to the bottom of debt based non-economy.

A real revolution.

Very much appreciate your response. This is what this program that our two hosts have created for us is all about: Ideas kicked back and forth. This helps us all learn. I’ve had my say, and you’ve had yours. Again thanks for your thoughts.

I love these guys. wow I am spoilt😊. Thankyou so 👍

It really is a shame what's been happening to the universities. I have studied political science at Masaryk University in CZ around 2010 and shortly after, the political philosophers were banished to the Faculty of Arts from the Faculty of Social Studies by the dominant history-of-thought-obscuring clique, the seat counters (who have an unproven theory that politics is actually about tweaking the numbers of chambers and seats in parliaments; spoiler alert, it obviously is not, as all evidence shows). I had no idea such insults to human intelligence are a systemic campaign, although I did tell a teacher there once during an exam that their whole thing is kinda fascist. I guess I see now why they later made sure these kinds of things stop being explained to aspiring political scientists. Well, at least education in CZ was still public back then, so I have zero student debt for years of mostly just having to sit through distractions from any subjects that are actually important or contain accurate insights about reality.

Excellent!!

Keen and Hudson are awesome in economics. The literal opposite in everything else. Just another example why no one should listen to anyone in areas outside their specialty.

01:29:38 "That's why we are on your show and not on [NBC]" BURN! I love your show btw :) And Hudson is a legend!

@DemystifySci_Podcast

Ай бұрын

He really got us with that one 😂

Depressing & Inspiring at the same time

I love Michael Hudson. I've read all of his books and agree with much of his views. So I guess that makes me part of the one percent...lol

@GETJUSTICE4U

6 ай бұрын

No it does not. If one in a hundred (1%) people had read all of Michael"s books the humanity may not be in such a disastrous mess. Moreover, far less than 1% are mega wealthy.

Great discussion. Regarding student debt. It might be fair to give anyone who currently has or had student debt at some point, even if completely paid off to be given a tax credit to eventually get what was paid back.

Geeez--these two really sound PROMISING ! Actually I've looked further into Dr. Hudson and Keen after seeing them here? Yes here. A/w shit! I just need to listen to this interview again. Unfortunately it's just not surprising. You Two can be the FUTURISTS. You have my vote.

36:20 Well it actually reflects it, if you include the INFLATION, from 1971 on. The GDP is 25 trillion, but in 1971 year dollars it is probably somewhere between 5 and 10 trillion. Everything above it (that changed hands from industrialists into banksters pockets) is from the financialization, and printing.

First watching DemystifySci (demystifying science), being drawn by title and ‘top credible’ economists. Anastasia commendably dissected concepts to phrase questions prompting the guests to enthusiastically expound on concepts. But despite expert corroboration of concepts in many diverse areas mentioned, desired reforms don’t inexorably flow from reasoned justification alone. Consider the 70 year delay adopting a practice Dr. Semmelweis discovered: Hand-washing to prevent infecting patients.

Prelude Commentary:- Living and working on a farm is as much like an ancient self managed governance system, dictated by the weather and seasons, as any old civilization might have been, and the Australian Aboriginal Firestick Farming has had an original observation science approach in the study of animal, plant, insect and Cosmology, that was emulated in their particular Totem System adapted to the land they live in.., a natural self inclusion-exclusion of holistic behaviour that you can not avoid some absorbing of when living there. (It's more than a feeling) Dryland farmers get strong lessons in heaven and hell that tend to preclude the school teaching and academic education of University/Government level complexity.., and the concepts of community, greater society and the world of natural insensitivity is felt locally. It's lived in Anthropology, chaotic and unstable in approximate conformity with seasonal budgets of resource management. So Michael Hudson's analysis of Civilisations and the family/tribe group going feral and deconstructed as holistic organizations is all there in experience, ..but without the academic support with languages and Sciencing Nomenclatures, chaotic expectations are all there is to look at, it's always NOW dominates Actuality. Steve Keen shows us how the civil boundaries are broken and the feral destruction of such order as we were able to manage is out of control.

Thanks for inviting Steve and Michael on your show. They covered a lot of subjects but its still unclear how the aversge wage earner in the U.S. could ever bring about the radical reform measures and institute a 90% progressive income tax on the rich like FDR accomplished in the New Deal during the great depression. My gut tells me the oligarchy, the real owners of this country will fight to the bitter end to preserve their priviledge, power and obscene wealth as a top priority. Even to the extent of a nuclear war or sacrificing three quarters of the world population in order to survive. The ruling elites want power as Orwell said in the end of his infamous novel, 1984. I think the ruling elites have become blinded by their greed, arrogance, priviledge and sense of superiority.

@ciaranryan5265

6 ай бұрын

It was the example of the Russian revolution and the upsurge of popular movements from below in the U.S. that ushered in the New Deal reforms. FDR, himself from the oligarch class, understood that reforms could stave off a fundamental change in America's power structures. This time round may be more complicated, global finance is so highly interconnected, climate is spiralling out of control, nuclear weapons exist and are proliferating so there are bigger risks out there.

What are the mechanisms for controlling the debt? How can working people analyze the policies that are being put forth, and so, vote for their own interests?

The MMT message should really talk more about abolishing income tax and replacing it with land value tax. Most people would agree with that then talk about a modern debt jubilee.

Dr. Keen, Dr. Hudson, Have you considered the possibility that the rise of 19th century Progressive economics was because of the backing of the nascent industrial lords? Or in other words, these economists were as much the tools of a vested interest as are the Austrians and Simon Pattens of a later time. Under this paradigm - the drive for greater economic efficiency was driven by national/nationalist aims and not by any particular desire for improvement of lower class lives. And again under this paradigm - is there any possibility of the West eventually realizing that economic competitiveness will be required for the West to maintain its relative power in the world, and in order to do so - will start to rein in the excesses of the hegemonic US/West era?

Bookkeeping that my mom taught me an accountant then I was educated in Computer Info Systems that was business but I had History degree before what both are discussing was what I saw because is obvious if you watched everything that I have watched from my education of System Analyst.

Financialization makes me think of the snake swallowing its own tail.

fascinating

And now landlords find it more profitable to rent out rooms with air b&b rather than the expense and nuisance of responsibility for tenants. They are all around but you very rarely see one and only just hear them tiptoe in and out, as if they've been told to keep it down, or they're just those types who live with buds stuck in their ears and their eyes in their phones. The economist Roland Fryer seemed to find some useful interesting things to do the maths on, like schooling and policing, unpopular though it made him.

Das financial Kapital (with apologies to her Marx Capital is free to roam although it brings mixed blessings. Our labour is the source of such as upwardly it ascends. As money flows upwards those of whom reside there, Take a little for themselves and labour not, I'm guessing. Folk who live up on the heights, let's call them rentiers Accumulate lots of wealth, and buy up all the land. They also buy up everything they can get, With their grubby hands. From thereon capital Is sent to work so that rentiers don't have to. I playfully wrote this after reading "Killing the host" Micheals wonderful book.

In a couple of years the interest on the US debt will be over a trillion dollars a year. Together with the defence budget it will eat up all the discretionary spending available in the US, leaving nothing for infrastructure or social care, etc. Then what you gonna do? What the numbers mean - A million seconds is 11 days. A billion seconds is 32 years. A trillion seconds take us back to the stone age.

@jarirutanen8762

4 ай бұрын

Interest payment is completely voluntary for the gov, it is just a part of the hoax that the gov borrows money from "investors".

CODE 12 §531. Exemption from taxation. Federal reserve banks, including the capital stock and surplus therein and the income derived therefrom shall be exempt from Federal, State, and local taxation, except taxes upon real estate.

During the 50's and 60's most of he people owned the cars they drove. Today they do not. They borrow to buy those crs and with planned obsolescence they cannot even drive them long enough to pay them off.

The painting behind Steve looks like a cross between an Arshile Gorky and a Paul Klee.

Teo of my faves, so cool to see them together ❤

The US prosperity for the 1950’s and 60’s was due to the US industrialists and financiers having been victorious in a war that they connived to start along with the Zionists and Brits, which left most competing industrialists in ruble and the US nearly unscathed and in possession of war spoils and control of the markets for consumer goods, AND because of the existence of an alternative economic system in the USSR that those who profited from the war knew held the potential to appeal for US workers, then their golden goose, and thus they had to relinquish a more enticing share of the profits from commerce to their workers or risk being toppled. Once the USSR was gone, that dread subsided, and they rolled back the enticements of better wages and living conditions and kept more wealth for themselves, AND they had to contend with the heightened competition from industrialists elsewhere that had pulled themselves out of the ruble of WWII, plus Kissinger’s scheme to enrich himself and the predator billionaire class by injuring the US workforce in piping their jobs off to China has run out of steam, and strengthened China to the point that it’s poised to eclipse the treacherous US oligarchy.

2 great lads! 👍