Thanks to Skillshare for sponsoring this video! The first 1,000 people to use the link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/livinganachronism10221

@GonzoTehGreat

Жыл бұрын

This is probably the best discussion of fight choreography I've seen on KZread. 👍 I think there's a genuine problem of poor quality writers AND choreographers in the screen entertainment industry. Bob Anderson was great, but he was the exception(al) instead of the rule.

@dronesclubhighjinks

Жыл бұрын

How many Skillshare courses is Galadriel teaching? To be honest, I would probably stay away from those myself. I laughed so hard when you said that the point of a teacher is to teach, and not to show how epic they are. It is entirely consistent with her character that she wants to dominate the situation. 😂

@dronesclubhighjinks

Жыл бұрын

Sorry, but I just thought of another one! Galadriel: "I don't need Skillshare because I already know everything. Why would you even recommend it to me, insolent cur? Don't you know who I am?! After I finish my business with the orcs, you and Skillshare are next." Of course, when she sees this video, she's going to change her mind about the last sentence because she knows she won't be able to beat you!

@Suzanne_sf

Жыл бұрын

Hi Kramer! I really enjoy how you broke down the scene and your storytelling skills, although I think that TROP should have used better choreography so that the trainees weren't missing all of the time. I would have liked to have seen Isildur do well because even though in the actual stories he is weak willed against the ring, he was an expert soldier, especially to have been able to cut the ring off of Sauron in the first place. Isildur wasn't even in the training! Urgh! They really should have had a separate space for training, like GOT did in the first season (I think it was the first season). It is awesome how you compared the scenes with The Mask of Zorro too. (Even with TROP Elrond not being able to keep his promises, I still will watch for Elrond, the dwarves even though they forgot they were getting the Mithral to help the elves, and the Balrog.)

Don't sell yourself short: You're not just one guy and his tree - your one guy and his several trees. I am sure you could find a spot with at least 3 trees close together, which should suffice for at least a billion dollar production worthy fight scene.

@TechnoMinarchistBall

Жыл бұрын

High roller here suggesting one can have more than 1 tree.

@stapelchips6559

Жыл бұрын

Just make sure the trees plant roots!

@Valkanna.Nublet

Жыл бұрын

He should use his cloaks. Wrap them around the trunk at about the height they would be on a person and he's already got better effects than half the shows out there ;)

@A.Elbereth.Gilthoniel

Жыл бұрын

Thank you, I misheard it as 'I'm just one guy in history.'

3:13 _"At the very end cut, um, I think his name is Valendil, I'm not sure. He's a made up character, doesn't matter."_ That delivery made me chuckle XD

Thank you for pointing out that she didn't train them at all, that was my main complaint with the scene. The 'showrunners' seem to completely misunderstand the rolls of teacher and commander in this show. She is discussed as the 'commander' yet she will leave troops behind. When fighting an enemy she doesn't organize her troops and fight together, she just charges in. She is asked to teach and she just embarrasses them and teaches them nothing. From these scenes I have learned that Galadriel is a commissioned officer who bought her position with the family name. She may be the best fighter the elves have to offer but does not deserve any other position aside from berserker.

1. Commenting for the algorithm. 2. It’s great that you are taking this joke of a show seriously and using it to give an actual lesson in storytelling, constructive criticism is sorely lacking in regards to this show. 3. “No man is an army” is a great line.

@Inv1cto

Жыл бұрын

I agree. If the folks at Amazon listen to this, they can actually improve on their show. And then I'll watch it.

@benrex7775

Жыл бұрын

What about Hulk? *_What about DRAGONS?_*

Amazing how one person, with NO budget, who tries to approach a scene and choreography "professionally". Is far more effective that a Billion dollar budget team trying to sell a vapid message. Well done as all ways Kramer.

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Shadow

The scene rewrite is 100 times more compelling than what we got. I can only hope that the people hired to do this stuff actually start putting some thought into it

@lueysixty-six7300

Жыл бұрын

You can you only....what?? ...Hope..?? Wish...??.Despise...?? ....Pickle-Rick??!!! What is your meaning, man!?! 🙆‍♂️

@cosmoreverb3943

Жыл бұрын

@@lueysixty-six7300 It was meant to be hope haha

@veeclash4157

Жыл бұрын

Nah they won't. They should just hire our man Kramer to do choreography and training for the fights and he'd make their fight scenes look 100x better.

@BarokaiRein

Жыл бұрын

Why do that when you can just churn out shit and get paid anyway? That seems to be what everyone in hollywood does, aside from the VFX team.

@erikred8217

Жыл бұрын

@@lueysixty-six7300 Pickle rick was good. that show suuuucks.

The best argument when criticising something is to have a better proposition. Well done.

Jack Sparrow and Will Turner's first fight at the blacksmith's was filled with story and characterization. Jack willing to fight dirty and being resourceful to outwit the competition while also exuding a devil-may-care disposition, and Will with his more methodical and direct style. The ending also shows a lot of Jack's slice of life with him comically getting the short end of the stick anyway and getting hauled off to jail (which he soon escapes, of course) despite his skillful antics. Another masterful display of film swordsmanship vis-a-vis story is the first encounter between Himura Kenshin and Seta Sojiro in Kyoto Inferno. It's a little more straightforward than the prior example, but the ending to that fight blew me away as someone who's forgotten most of the original anime. Even without swords, fight scenes in general can (and maybe should) tell a story. The Holmesavision fights in both of Guy Ritchie's Holmes movies are a great example. Another great video, Kramer! Looking forward to more of your takes especially from this kind of vantage point. Cheers!

@reek4062

Жыл бұрын

Pirates of the Caribbean is so f*cking great

@OmniGSage

Жыл бұрын

And let's not forget another of the greatest swordfights [that also tells story] in cinema in the duel between Westley and Iñigo in The Princess Bride.

@trinelangohr6661

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, but my problem with the fight between WIll and Jack is this: if Will practises 6 hours a day, who does he practice against? Does he simply practise by himself? That wouldn't do much good. I mean, there's a reason why people don't brag "I'm great in bed, I masturbare 6 hours a day".

@koleary1798

Жыл бұрын

​@@trinelangohr6661 I think it's to subtly reinforce how comedically seriously Will takes himself, with the fantastic juxtaposition against Sparrow who exudes this devil may care attitude, learns things on the fly etc. Its a meshing of tropes for cinematic effect, and to give the viewer a taste of what's to come in the film with the duo.

The Mask of Zorro, my childhood hero and a source of embarrassment. My mom recently reminded me of the day she first took me to the theater to watch, where I had jumped on the arm of the chairs and mimicked Zorro in the two horse scene. That movie is so good!

@Vlad_Tepes_III

Жыл бұрын

Hey now, don't be embarrassed, I'm sure kids of the same age would have thought it was awesome.

@sailiealquadacil1284

Жыл бұрын

Hah, better than what I did after going to the circus for the first time, I think I gave my poor grandma a heart attack. There was this one guy who was standing on a chair, placed one foot on the backrest and made the whole chair topple. Obviously, I had to try this at home. My poor gran walked in on me shouting "look what I can do" as I was about to topple the chair.

"Fight with your feet." *sits down with knees bent and feet in front, then proceeds to stab, pommel strike, and punch one's own feet*

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

En Garde feet! Have at thee!

I'm a writer and I've written my fair share of fight scenes, and one of my biggest pet peeves are unnecessary curb stomps. I want wins and losses to feel earned, and I think that's something I picked up from watching pro wrestling. If a character can fight half a dozen swordsmen without breaking a sweat or taking it seriously, or effortlessly kill a monster that a dozen other well-trained swordsman can't even scratch, it makes me think the other characters suck more than that character succeeds. I have a "Wow, you all suck", not a "Wow, they're awesome" reaction. I'm of the opinion that virtually every character should be portrayed competently, and even if they're outclassed against another swordsman, they do everything in their power to even the playing odds and be smart about their situation. Nobody's portrayed as being smart when they outsmart an idiot.

@benrex7775

Жыл бұрын

I totally agree with you. But sometimes we want to portray someone as an idiot. There are people out there who have no clue and no experience and they think they know it all. And in this case it makes sense to portray them as an idiot. Either the annoying idiot who get's a reality check or the loveable idiot who never learns but always tries. By the way I respect you for your capability of writing. I would love to do it as well but I'm so easily distracted by many things.

@immortallegacy100

Жыл бұрын

@@benrex7775 I'd say that's an exception, not the rule, and a competent swordsman easily dispatching an amateur only serves to highlight the idiot's lack of skill, not the other's actual skill.

@shawn092182

4 ай бұрын

​@@immortallegacy100 How would you portray the idiot in a scene where the idiot is fighting against a skilled swordsman?

Your skill as a teacher yourself really shines in this one! And this analysis really just reinforces the fact that any action scene should be about STORY and CHARACTER, not just 'being epic'... If it's not progressing the storytelling, or actively contradicting the characterisation to date, then it harms more than it helps.

I fully agree with the points at the 2 minute mark. A fight is it’s own story with a beginning, a rising action, a climax, a falling action, then an end. And it reveals so much about a character. Brave man, scared man, good man, bad man, liar, truth teller, all can be told from a sword fight.

@AnotherDuck

Жыл бұрын

Like any scene, a fight scene shouldn't end without a change or revelation of some kind. If you don't have that, you have an empty spectacle.

@shadowofhawk55

Жыл бұрын

@@AnotherDuck Not even a revelation. Just substance.

@AnotherDuck

Жыл бұрын

@@shadowofhawk55 "Substance" doesn't describe anything specific enough to rule out RoP.

That tree is your faithful sparring partner :3 Btw Guyladriel cannot lose, for she has a tempest in her 🤣

@NorrisCFuhReal

Жыл бұрын

“I HaVe A TeMpEsT iN MeUh” 🥴

@mencheperra3916

Жыл бұрын

@@NorrisCFuhReal It's called period. 🤭

I just noticed at 12:32 your acting is better than Guyladriels in the show. Guyladriel always default to an expression of smug arrogance. But in your scene, you actually show pride and approval in your pupil. This would have been so much better than what we got.

Checked the _ROP IMDB_ , turns out they only credit a fight choreographer for one episode of the series. Fight trainer, yes. Stunt coordinator, yes. Swordmaster, in a fantasy epic? Hah, no. Goodness does it ever show.

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

Lord

@cosmoreverb3943

Жыл бұрын

It legitimately boggles the mind

@karladenton5034

Жыл бұрын

That explains a LOT! 😮‍💨

@adambielen8996

Жыл бұрын

So the director literally just took the actors and told them to have at it? I both believe it and am absolutely dumbfounded.

I think a big part of it is that the scene tried to do two things at once -- it wasn't "just" a training scene, it was also a "Galadriel proving herself to the Numenoreans scene," and the two things don't work well side-by-side. I think if they split those two things out -- first, Galadriel humiliates the recruits, THEN instructs them, it would have worked better. That's my two cents!

Excellent video (as always) and I appreciate you doing your best to avoid criticizing the show and instead offering creative and constructive criticism. It’s easy to say the show is terrible (it is), what’s harder is rising above that emotion to create something compelling and uplifting out of what they gave us. Keep up the great work!

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

Thank you Joshua, I'm glad you appreciate my approach

@velraven8944

Жыл бұрын

It's what everyone should strive to do, if you give the internet any opportunity to say "The show is bad? Galadriel is poorly written? You didn't like the choreography? You don't have real criticism you just hate women, cringe" they will take it without hesitation, and that's bad for society as a whole

You've got a new subscription from me. There are way too many reviews that only say how stupid the show is, but here you are actually teaching art

@benrex7775

Жыл бұрын

I just watched another channel doing it like this. It's Eric The Cameraman. Perhaps you are interested in watching his videos. As his name implies he focuses on how camera choice can be used to do compelling storytelling.

I honestly like these kind of fight autopsies over the ones that try to breakdown how realistic a fight scene is. I'm never going to watch a fantasy movie for realism, but if the fight tells a good story and isn't just pointless noise, that's when i'm engaged with it.

Fight as a unit can't be a lesson from Galadriel :) In a troll scene we can see, that the only proper way to fight is one-man-army

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

Yeah to be completely honest, redoing this scene without rewriting the whole show is impossible. Because everything is wrong. They could have just told the story Tolkien wrote and been fine.

@Ithirahad

Жыл бұрын

Eh, no, it'd be fine. First of all it wouldn't be the worst contradiction we've seen so far anyway, and second of all they're fighting an army of Orcs, not a lone troll :P

One of my favorite fight scenes is the last duel in Ivanhoe (1953). The stakes are high, the hero is in desperate trouble, every hit he takes looks like it could be fatal, the reactions of the other characters adds to the sense of peril...and when he turns the tide it feels epic. It's all done so simply, without razzle-dazzle camerawork or quick edits, but it works beautifully because it brings the entire story to a head.

There's virtue of character in how constructive your analysis is

Thanks so much, I'm glad you really explained it, and comprehensible. I've always loved a good fight scene, and now I see more clearly how characters and their roles dictate the choreography. I also like that Galadriel is a dignified master in your version without a compulsory need to prove her self-worth. If she's in the position to teach she should be confident enough to give her underlings attention and even spotlight for when they do something right. I'll remember that for if I'll get to write an admirable teacher character. Great video!

Excellent point Kramer.Sadly it seems this particular scene is just there to show how badass she is with no equal. Which I guess in some ways is the whole plot of the show. Good action progresses the story and ramps it up or lays seeds for a later payoff. Nate

7:28 "Because the scene is shot as if it's about her..." Well, from what I gathered - the whole series is about her. So, your criticism is invalid =) Jokes aside - thank you for teaching us how to tell bad fight scene from the good one!

I loved the crafter persona that you donned for your sponsorship ad. From swordsmaster to crafter and back again. You looked so authentic in it, so much it took a brief moment that I thought you were going to craft something

@Inv1cto

Жыл бұрын

So did I. XD

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

Haha! Glad you like it! I will be making some more things for myself, whether they make it into videos on the channel is a different matter. I get the feeling people are less interested in those videos on average

@KaenRas

Жыл бұрын

@@LivingAnachronism Nope. Fully interested in any of your creative journeys. You are an excellent teacher and are humble enough to show your mistakes as well as your success. The bow video was very informative and covered many things I had never thought about.

@karladenton5034

Жыл бұрын

@@LivingAnachronism I came for the costuming! Crafter videos are my jam.

also it really hit home. when i was young i was going to a LARP and a few friends really trained as a unit beforehand. during the larp we met a group of kendo practitioners and we beat them. individually we would have gotten crushed but since they didnt fight as a unit they didnt have a chance.

Your remade scene shows so much more. It would be better if it also shows Galadriel is a better "king" (the role like Bard from the Hobbit movies) than she is a soldier or general.

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. If these sort of scene even had to exist in the first place. But something that would show her wisdom and leadership skills, or at least set them up somehow.

I think the biggest thing to remember in every fight is that a fight is a battle of wills. A lot of people don't fully understand what this means: Everyone has a different reason to fight, different ambitions, different ways they want to win, what they consider winning, what they think about the person they are currently fighting, etc etc etc. In the Rings of Power there is none of this. It's either "Your evil" or "I want to fight". It's bland because in most scenes there is no true REASON to fight. All of the fights in the show if you look at it are entirely optional with nothing to gain from them. It makes it seem childish. In many cases there are no interesting consequences for the fights either, what would happen if Galadriel lost precisely? How would she LOSE? Would she get killed since they were fighting with sharp blades? Over all (which you mentioned in the video) how on earth (or should I say middle earth) is this relevant to her as a character?! Its weird man...

It so nice to see how Rings of Power brought the community together.

All of your "criticizing" of Rings of Power is LEGITIMATE, and I appreciate finding someone who can articulate it this well. It's easy to destroy that show.. but it's a lot harder to factually break down WHY each sequence is so bad, and I greatly appreciate it when you dissect it the way that you do.

The worst part of this whole fight was it made me like Galadriel even less than I already did. I have no problem whatsoever with Galadriel: Warrior Princess, but when you show her being a badass on a bunch of green recruits that she's suppose to be training for combat, talking down to them and thoroughly enjoying it, it looks a lot less like a mentor that is training a group of students and more like the big kid on the playground that likes beating up the kindergarteners. Because when you factor in the lifespan of the Elves in LOTR to mortal Men, that is essentially what you've got here.

16:00 its very interesting that you brought them up. I was listening to Jocko Wilink talking about the US Troop training, and until Vietnam War, the US troops were training how to shoot on paper stantionary targets how most people train in thier shooting range. However, after Vietnam War, they realized training regime had to include both movement of the target, and target must shoot back at them. This can be easily adatped here. You can have Numenoreans doing amazing sword skills on practice dummy, and Gladriel could have just mention how enemy wont just stand still. Or she could have added insight of how Orcs who rather enjoys pain wont stop at injuries that makes human opponent drop to thier feet. Its simple things that cud have elevated this show so much, but just the fact that none of these were thought out at all makes it so much worse.

Man that rewrite was brilliant. But yeah, seeing a young Isildur develop in that manner would both be awesome and tragic considering what we see later (I haven't watched the show so I don't know how he's been introduced or used thus far). I've seen your other videos, and the breakdowns of choreography have been brilliant. Edit: grammar

Okay now that I've finished the video, I think the way I'd fix it is to have Galadriel specifically be teaching them to fight while outnumbered. There will always be far more orcs than them, so they need to know how to deal with that. That way you can still have Galadriel specifically showing how cool and awesome and great she is at the center of the fight against overwhelming odds, giving them lessons all while fighting like five of them, but the final lesson she gives is the one that comes after one of them lands a hit: no matter how good you are, being outnumbered is always dangerous.

The greatest thing that the RoP show has given us is the wealth of KZreadrs we never would have known about had the show been good. I've found shows on script writing, choreography, cinematography, make up, set design, etc...all critiquing RoP, all doing a better job with the material given. :)

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

Fair point, but my hope is that you would have found me anyway ;) I didn't start this channel just to critique RoP, and do not delight in having to do so, I rather prefer sharing my love of fantasy and adventure, and had RoP been good, I would have made similar videos as I have for LOTR, which is to incorporate elements of RoP into my LOTR reenactment.

I love the scene you suggested because it makes the Numenorians look more professional and also is a learning experience for vengeful Galadriel herself. She's good at leading and inspiring others. Maybe one of the students could have come up to her after this lesson about teamwork and asked where her allies were - which opens her eyes to how blind she's been so far, ignoring her own advice in her own battles.

"Hello yes, I'd like to nominate Kramer to choreograph the next Rings of Power season please..." But seriously, the mock scenario you described of how to make the training scene compelling and have payoff was just... perfect. It had a legitimate issue of 1-v-1 dueling instead of fighting as a unit, a great demonstration of why that is an issue, and then payoff of following the advice and thus solving the issue. I'm definitely taking notes should the need for a scene like this ever come up in my writing! Thanks for teaching us not just What's wrong with something, but Why, and How to fix it.

"I warn you sir, I’ve killed as many as six men in a week…eight if you count matinée!" I don't know anything about sword fights or stages, but I saw your scene rewritten while you told it as if I was there, and it was simple and damn good. Great video, as always!

What you described as a good training scene reminds me of one training scene from a book... I just can't remember which one. It was sooo good cause there was a very unlikeable character who thought he is the absolut best of the best and he actually learned his lesson. 😅

That short scene at the beginning of the video is better than the whole sequence in the show.

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

Thank you

The pitch you made for Skill Share is a prime example of what you were explaining about the fight scene. A good instructor should know what you need before even you know. Galadriel was just showing off, not explaining or demonstrating proper form and why it is important and so forth. Great opportunity for her to shine by being a good teacher was lost by her ego. Teachers must suspend their egos to teach.

Splendit editting at the beginning there, much gold

Your point about having even the choreography be telling a story is so hugely important. I think I intrinsically knew that, but I never thought about it, or put it into those terms before. But it makes perfect sense.

That bit at the end there with Isildur developing as well makes me very sad that it's not what we got. Very good points overall!

7:00 A recent film with a similar scene which does this properly is Topgun:Maverick. In the film, Maverick, in role of the instructor, has to put his cocky, fighter pilot students in their place, before they're ready to appreciate what he has to teach them. The film portrays this by having the students initially disrespect him, until he quietly, but convincingly defeats them each one-on-one (or even two-on-one) in mock duels. After their egos are suitably chastened and he's earned their respect, he's ready to begin training them for the toughest, most dangerous mission of the lives. They no longer doubt his suitability for this responsibility, because he's already proved that he's a much better fighter pilot, from whom they still have much to learn. What makes this storytelling even better, is that Maverick *knows* he's NOT a good instructor and has his own self-doubts about his ability to successfully prepare his students for a deadly (almost suicidal) mission, from which some are unlikely to return. This adds to the drama, but also explains why his approach isn't necessarily the most appropriate, but instead just the best he can do, because while might not be a good teacher, he's the only one who knows what they need to learn... That's how you narratively justify a "try to defeat your new instructor" fight scene.

Part 2! Huzzah! Your analysis of the story of the fight was spot on. RoP failed on every level. From teaching martial arts, I can say that they got one thing right - junior students have to learn the difference between sparring and fighting, and the Numenoreans aren't sparring. But training with live blades? Hmm, that's a good way to cull your own army.

Great video! Very interesting! Also this year I wanted to be a LotR Ranger for Halloween because I thought it would be cool. I looked up costumes online and they looked ugly and synthetic. Then I found your first video about a Rangers Garb. I've been putting together my Garb the past couple weeks. I'd just thought I'd tell you what I have. For my boots my dad has 3 black leather boots with laces they look really modern but it was the closet thing I could find and I don't plan on buying much. For stockings I already had some wool hiking socks. For hoes my mom didn't want me cutting up hoodies so I grabbed 2 pairs of jogging pants. I put on the more synthetic one on first then I put the second one on top and rolled the bottom up to my knees. Then I sewed some brown felt leg wraps and wrapped them around my shins. That's it for the bottom half. For the top half I took on of my dads xl white t-shirts as the under garment I tied a piece of leather around my waste. Then one of the few things I bought was a green sweater with buttons at the neck. This acts like my tunic. Then I have a belt for my clothes and a belt for my tools. My favorite part is my cloak, which is a odie green. My mom had a silver pin with a flower design on it that acts like a brooch. The only piece to the garb I'm stuck on is a hood. I figured out A way to make my cloak turn into a hood/cloak but that's not accurate. Should I be accurate or just look like a Ranger? This is a lot of info. lol! I guess I'll tell you what I have for my Hard kit so far. I made a necklace with a not pure emerald (my birth stone) it has the powers to summon....uh......haven't figured that out yet. I have Buck knife. A beeswax candle. I'm currently working on a snap sack and some manila rope. For my weapons I'm thinking about having a spear( Could double as a walking stick and I might just whittle the tip sharp) A bow. I've made them before but there to small now. Defiantly going to watch your videos on them. And a sword. this is another thing I'm stuck on. I don't want a cheap plastic bendy piece of crap. I would like a real sword but I'm 14 so..............I can't have that. So what do you think I should go with? Do you know any good and cheapish($20-$25) LARP sword I could find? Oh, I forgot I made a letter using elvish fount it looks really cool. I also burned an edge and put a bloody(paint) hand print on it. I also used an actual ink and pen! Well that is by far the biggest comment I've ever written I hope you respond! Sincerely, Edraith Silverleaf( My made up name)

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

Greetings Edraith, I can picture what you described and from the sound of it, it's a great start. Really happy I was able to help in some small way. I do have 2 videos on hoods, one out of a hoodie, though you mentioned not wanting to cut one of yours up (I will say a thrift store might have a really cheap hoodie you could grab and cut) and one from scratch with just a bit of fabric. Using your cloak as a hood doesn't have the same aesthetic as a Ranger from Jackson's Trilogy, but it is a historical method, and if it's what you can do for now, do it. It's tells it's own story of a ranger with a tight purse. For a sword. Here is my advice. Wait. Save your money, and by the thing you want. I haven't found any larp swords for under 40-50$ that would be worth the money. And even at that price range it can be hit or miss. Epic Armory does have the ready for battle line, if one of those does strike your fancy. Those are the cheapest I have found from a reputable larp company. If you want a real sword, wait, save your money. You'll be much happier in the long run. Sincerely, Beryl, Son of Bertolt (Also my made up name)

As a fencing teacher, there is no bigger indication that I'm doing my job right than the sheer volume of bruises I end up with at the end of a day of practice.

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

Well said

You're analysis is spot on, but it's why you're wrong. I didn't watch the show, but I can tell you exactly what the story is in the clip you played and it's actually pretty good. The story being told is that Galadriel is overconfident, and this moment is a warning to her. You're correct: she could have turned and blocked with her other sword, and that would have been a more stable position. She knows that. However, she doesn't think this human can hit her. She thinks she can use an unstable position to block his strike, because she doesn't think he's capable of exerting enough force to destabilize her position. The human doesn't think he can make the strike either, but he tries anyway: that's just who this guy is. He is someone who tries things that he doesn't think are going to work. The incongruity between the story of the choreography and the story we'd expect this scene to tell is so obvious that it's almost certainly intentional. You're absolutely right, this logically *should* be a scene about the students. But they are intentionally giving us something else. Why? because the question of whether Elendil's men will be ready for the orcs doesn't actually matter for the overall plot. What does matter for the overall plot, is whether Galadriel will underestimate her opponents. Ostensibly this is a lesson in swordfighting for Elendil's troops: but in actuality it was a lesson in the rules of war for Galadriel. First rule? Know thy Enemy.

Well said about teamwork being the what should have been the focus of that fight scene. If they wanted to stay true to the work of Tolkien, Galadriel would be beating them because everyone was fighting alone to get the glory of winning until Isildur joins in and convinces everyone to work together. The ambition of being rewarded would represent the temptation from the enemy, not unlike the temptation of the One Ring and the general approach of Sauron when it came to corrupting others. Orcs while many do not have any cohesion in the books, as they are controlled by fear and greed and often break ranks and start infighting for the smallest of reasons which makes working together much more valuable. Such a scene would justify Isildur being included in the expedition while showing the leader he would become in the future, actually contain a theme relevant to the books in selfishness vs selflessness and make Isildur's eventual downfall to the One Ring that much more tragic and impactful.

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

Totally agree with you, you see exactly why my rewrite makes sense, even though I didn't put that all in the video, but your comment is exactly spot on!

I really like your explanation of how fighting scenes are a story in themselves as well as fitting within the grand scheme of the plot. Very easy to follow! I haven’t watched Rings of Power (and probably never will) but your breakdown of this scene is on point! Keep up the great work!

I like how the actor moves before she hits him on the butt with the sword. Solid work guys.

This angle of critique is great, there are plenty of people who can breakdown why the fight itself is flawed on its technical aspects but I haven’t seen many people explain why the story of the fight is pointed in the wrong direction

I've been enjoying your inputs on this fight scene more than Shad's. For me, he is doing the thing you mention at the end, harping on the mistakes and criticizing far more than necessary compared to the time spent saying what could be done better. I got so much more out of this than I did out of his because you acknowledged what you disagreed with, then moved on to what you would do. I get that some people might enjoy his more, but this is far easier for me to enjoy because of how you keep it basically all constructive criticism, instead of making an entire skit of something you didn't like before you moved on to the constructive part. It's far more dense in usable information, and I appreciate that.

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much Scott

This chap gets it! Sadly Amazon doesn't seem to and it boggles my mind. They have all the budget they could ask for, all the supposed passion, but seem to have none of the skill, experience or understanding to make this production as engaging as it could be. I've had to watch these episodes in bite sizes to fully consume them. Even when the ending is a "cliff-hanger", I'm just like, some characters have such thick plot-armour they can easily survive any disaster, natural or otherwise AND guaranteed their make-up will still look great, not appropriately great for the scene, but great for a night out.

I really appreciate this, it's a much deeper perspective than most!

I think I've learned more about fight scenes and the storytelling importance than I ever would have otherwise. Your passion and training are clear and you give great details behind your reasoning. Most of all, I like that you do not demonize the character of Galadriel. I happen to like her rendition in Jackson's works, as well as the Amazon version - yes, we do exist😆! I take them as wholly separate characters and can enjoy it that way. I think sometimes people forget that some of us ladies just want to see a woman be bad*ss, bash things, and 'hang the rules' as Jack Sparrow would say! lol. But seriously, I can enjoy a good well thought out critique as it informs me for other works that I digest differently that I do the current series. Thanks. -- Official Lauren Brown

Well said. Not just to bag on RoP, but it's so clear that the $1B show did *not* put as much thought into creating a meaningful purpose to that scene as you did. Squandered screen time. Your revision (and insight) was all spot on.

7:31 From what I have gathered from videos like this (haven't watched Jewellery of Might and never will!), the creators are simply trying to show how epic the blonde woman is. For people with little or no fencing experience, this is also the impression that is received. And this is by far the larger part of the audience! People with more understanding of fencing can see easily, that she is absolutely no master. What this fight-scene does show (even if not too obvious to all), is that no matter how good a fencer/fighter you are, if you get surrounded be enemies, be they noobs, YOU DIE! 13:06 When she threatens the 2 fencers with her outstretched arms (which doesn't work btw), smiling and feeling fantastic, she has a third enemy behind her, who, in a real fight, would run her through!

@Vexarax

Жыл бұрын

I have never fenced in my life but she isn't actually capable of fighting them like that based on their own lore. In ep 2 she was slammed off a raft by a starving human woman who'd been lost sea for weeks. The woman wasn't even fast but Galadriel just stood there and couldn't dodge it or defend herself. They literally just have their own random lores that they apply when they feel like it, and when the plot doesn't need those lores they abandon them lol. Also in that fight scene, the people keep teleporting all over the scene. So not only is it impossible in their own lore given how weak and slow she is, everyone she's fighting are actually magical teleporters who still can't land a hit lol

I've seen many videos disliking the fight scene and even the autopsy severely critiquing the technique. Even then, I think that the scene at least told us something about (this version of) Galadriel, even if it wasn't very nice. And that the Numenorians could have learned something from her cocky but confident style (of course after consciously forgetting that they are supposed to be formidable warriors already). Now that I see your explanation that the focus could have been on them, and Galadriel could have given them feedback and commands on the spot... It's amazing how such a subtle and "easy" change could have improved the scene tremendously. Ifeel disappointment about what could have been but just wasn't, but mostly excitement imaging the fixed scene, so your video is worth the watch of course. Thanks for your dedication, keep up the great work.

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Gino, glad you enjoyed!

Great video. Thank you Kramer (Never underestimate the power of one guy and his tree😀)

That whole fight seemed more about her trying to humble the Numenorians, perhaps I am incorrect but it felt as if they and most of such believed that they were superior and had nothing to learn from her, even though she does eventually lose the fight she put the group through their paces and taught they to not underestimate her skill or overestimate their own due to their pride, that said yes there was definitely techniques used that shouldn't have been as you demonstrate. New Subscriber, Neophyte Swordsman LOVING your Vids and learning LOTS of techniques to use for Larp combat.

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

Welcome! And I might be more inclined to agree with your take on the story, if the Numenoreans had actually had cause to be that prideful, instead of being woefully inept, and if they had actually learned something from her. And as the story is told in the show, it seems like Galadriel is the prideful one for most of the time

Your proposed changes would have actually made the training scene good. Man I wish we could have gotten a good show, It could have been epic. I'm getting sad now. Still have the Peter Jackson movies at least, and the books obviously.

Had to stop mowing to watch your video, girlfriend is mad, I'm happy.😁

I just love that this is a specific critique based in your field of expertise and not one of the many “they just don’t respect Tolkien’s vision” kind of critiques. Yes, I agree with that, but I love to see different points of view. What a tragedy that with a budget like that they couldn’t take a little time to find honest opinions to help them make the show great. Can you imagine what this show could have been with even one expert being consulted??

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

I can imagine, and it hurts so much more because of it. I recut the RoP trailer to show what it could have been, that is also on the channel.

Excellent breakdown. Yeah, the way they depicted the fight scene in TRoP made Galadriel just look like a showoff but the adjustments you recommended would have made the scene much better and made Galadriel more likeable.

Great video!

Excellent video!! Thanks for the analysis!

Love the channel man, this is amazing work

I have just finished playing little john in a panto and I also choreographed the act 1 finale sword fight of robin vs the sheriff. neither of he actors had ever picked up a sword before so I choreographed the fight in 3 stages where in each stage there was a different story. I did this to encourage more of a performance from the actors rather then them just doing the moves so I agree and great video.

Whoa. Love this, you nailed it.

Very interesting videos!

Another excellent vid👌 You and your three is doing great :D

Excellent insights. Thank you for this vid.

I really appreciate your effort and insight. I am always interested in knowing why something is bad or good, what is lacking , how to improve etc and your videos provide me exactly that.

All very good points, reminds me of a renactment last man standing battle parring with about 60 people fighting in pairs until last, the old guard went round and picked off the beginners quickly, just so they could then have fun fughting each other, that type of behavior really annoys me, nobody learns.

My god, the difference in your version is mIIIIIIIIILLLLLLEEEEeeessss apart from what Amazon gave us 🤦‍♂️ Great job

Very informative, I quite enjoy these thought provoking videos on or related to stage combat with swords.

You have some excellent points here :)

Great vid, man. Love your work, it's always so thoughtful and well-considered, tasteful, and impassioned. It's encouraging to see that not just in your area of expertise, but in the broader context of modern society. But I wax poetic. Keep us supplied with more!

Excellent suggestions for improving the scene.

very good

I have no interest in fencing, acting fights or the Rings of Power, yet I'm re watching this video

You're so much more generous -- and therefore helpful to actors -- than some other people who are vitriolic, who mostly want to dis a female sword fighter.

Im just going to say…I’m so happy I found this channel.🙏

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

I'm glad you are enjoying it!

@brightfaith8403

Жыл бұрын

@@LivingAnachronism Me too!😁

Is the tree going to be a character on your channel? Does the tree have a name? Where did the tree train to be such a good partner? So many questions. Great video, thanks! I love listening to how you explain everything, it's clear and comprehensive. I'm not a native speaker so it's crucial for me to listen to detailed explanations such as yours to understand what I want to understand.

I think you did a fantastic job with this video! It's too damn bad you weren't working on the project.

Excellent points, great video. When do we get to see you in an epic fantasy film already?

👌 thanks for the excellent video my friend! It makes good sense. I like your version of it better. I look forward to seeing movies that you work on!

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

I look forward to working on those movies one day

This was brilliant 👏👏👏👍👍

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

Thank you my Lord!

Really cool! I love what a learning opportunity this show is becoming in pretty much every aspect. Never thought i'd be interested in fight scenes, but you make it interesting.

@LivingAnachronism

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Lana!

excellent

Great breakdown thank you! You nailed it on why the scene doesn't work cuz it focuses on Galadriel and just makes her look like a horrible teacher rubbing her supposed expertise in the students faces. A truly good teacher needs to have humility and a genuine care for their students - this version of Galadriel has neither of those characteristics. I also think it's the attitudes of the writers and other creative heads bleeding into the story too - that they think what they are making is so amazing and just rubbing it in our faces. Let's call it SheHulk syndrome lol. -Dan

I’m currently writing an epic fantasy series set within a school setting and this is extremely helpful and interesting.

Damn your scene rewrite is really good. I would love to know why the showriters didn't manage to think of such a scene by themself. To little time? Different prioritys? They put to much weight on making it look awesome thinking that that is what the audience wants? Is that maybe what the majority of the audience wants? Are they just not competent enough? It would be so nice if it was possible to interview one of them.

A great example of a fight telling a story and being well performed, is Sean Michaels vs Kurt Angle at Wrestlemania 21. If you like a good fight scene, then I highly recommend it.

Can I just compliment the editing at the start of the video!!! how the hell did you do that?