Regarding the Berserk replacements in red: Keep in mind that Berserk can also be used as removal in a color that doesn't have too much of that. You can double something's power and then it is sacked afterwards. Fatal Frenzy can only be case on your own stuff, the others don't sacrifice the target at end of turn, so all of them only do half what Berserk does...

Re: Song of Freyalise: I suspect the decks that are playing this card want the immediate Cryptolith Rite effect more than the overrun. It's a combo piece with stuff like Intruder Alarm, Jeskai Ascendancy, or just basic 1-2 CMC instants in bant that read "Untap all Creatures/nonland permanents you control". Certain token generators and haste effects can make it go infinite. You're right that the overrun is too slow and telegraphed; it can be nice, sure, but I suspect the reason it's played at all has more to do with what it does when you immediately play it. The acceleration and game ending potential of that much mana in a go-wide strategy is more than worth it.

Best production meets best content. Savage value.

In a future episode, you should do the opposite of this: rather than doing a "great budget brews" type of show, focus on those commanders with the most similarities between budget and non-budget strategies. So, if Tuvasa leans more toward midrange with more interaction as the budget increases, I suspect that Tatyova's strategy stays relatively the same. Sure, budget Taty decks aren't going to have things like Exploration but the strategy remains the same. Other commanders that I suspect stay the same-ish when you switch to budget: Torbran, Titania (all landfall commanders, basically), Yuriko. Why does this matter? It's especially valuable for newer players: if you buy in to a budget version of a deck, the upgrades will be more seamless and the strategy will for the most part remain unchanged. There are some decks that seem to have a higher buy-in price point if you want to be at all viable in some metas (and I"m not even talking cEDH here). Also, for players like myself who aren't too worried about budget, the challenge of building a budget deck and then slowly upgrading it is one of the very greatest pleasures of Magic, Commander specifically.

@richardhenriques4854

3 жыл бұрын

This would be awesome. Great point Paul.

Been listening/watching to your podcast for months-- clearly one of the best podcasts online. Clean transitions and great organization for the discussion, it just flows so naturally. You guys are my favorite 🤙 Also : "Happy to no longer be a 3/3 elk" 🤣

I don’t quite follow the specific argument against Cryptolith Rite because “the creatures come in tapped”. Even if they came in untapped they would need haste to be tapped for mana, so I don’t think the people building with that card were simply overlooking the fact that they come in tapped. It seems like the fact that they come in tapped and attacking would actually play to the advantage of this card because an activation of Najeela’s ability could give them all haste so they could be tapped for mana, potentially giving Najeela another swing. I could see why the card is potentially weaker because tapping the creatures would leave them tapped for the additional combats. I’ve never built the deck, so maybe there’s something I’m missing. Great episode by the way! I’m sure it’s very helpful for those that only knew to use the first page that loads for a given commander on the site. Very informative!

@EloquentTroll

4 жыл бұрын

I haven't finished my Najeela deck yet, though I'm more focused on taking advantage of the extra attack steps rather than the Warrior synergies. If I were all in on Warriors I would probably have it in the pre-deck pile

@todeshorst1697

4 жыл бұрын

najeela 5 open mana and 5 additional warriors produce infinite combats. that is why people play the card. it is also why song of freyalise is so much worse.

@EloquentTroll

4 жыл бұрын

@@todeshorst1697 but it's a fair redundancy to the combo. You only need it to last 1 turn, and Song of Freyalise gives you 2. If you have have it in your hand before you combo off it's identical to cryptolith rites. Redundancy is pretty important in combo decks.

@todeshorst1697

4 жыл бұрын

@@EloquentTroll except it doesnt give the ability to tap for mana to new tokens being created that turn. so it is not really redundant.

@EloquentTroll

4 жыл бұрын

@@todeshorst1697 oh you're right, I had the wording wrong in my head.

Hello, regarding the topic I've got the idea to improve 'the best EDH website' - namely I'd add a way (probably a slider between 'Cheap'-'All'-'Expensive') to not only check how budget changes builds overall but also within a theme, because for example an expensive budget Enchantress might look completely different from the budget one. Aside from that the website just like your podcast is simply amazing :D and I can't wait for another episode.

I had a very humbling experience recently jumping into commander. I spent tons of money on my first deck trying to make it as near cEDH level as I could. It was a 5 color deck and I had all the fechlands and shocklands as well as a lot of the best tutors and other staples in the format. I also paid tons of attention to the mana curve and at one point had the deck down to a mana average of just 1.17 per card. It was fast...and it was powerful. I was really scared to take it to my friend's kitchen table because their decks were very budget and casual. But they encouraged me to try it out against them. And... They destroyed me! Just absolutely smoked me. And not just once, but repeatedly. It was very humbling. I was sad at first...I thought for sure my super expensive deck was going to just run over my friends. But I learned SO much from the experience. Even budget decks can take on expensive decks...my friends would spend all their resources and attention on me in the early game (which is all my deck had. It had no late game) and yeah, I found out quick that having such a hyper aggressive deck can absolutely be stopped by much slower and clunky decks when everyone is focused on stopping me. It was frustrating and made me sad...but I'm glad I had the experience. Like I said, I've learned a lot from it and in the end it's made me appreciate the Commander format so much more.

This podcast gas taught me a ton! And showed me some amazing janky cards that fit right into my decks!

Other spotlight for my favorite hydra boi, Gargos. He's my mono green stompy fight club general and he's so underated.

+1000 guys! The difference the editing from The Command Zone staff did in your show made a %100 difference. Your topics were always awesome but the extra help from them made it so much easier to watch and follow along! Keep up the great work think yall will rise to be one of the top edh content creators soon! Subscribed!

Good podcasts always. I literally just put Twilight's call in my Judith deck. Because I needed another get everything back out Anthem in it

You guys are really excellent at this!

Nice mention of cards, I basically ran all those berserk spells in a Xenagos deck I previously owned. ❤️ Good times

30:54 - Starts talking about red alternatives to Berserk but totally missed one of my favorites: Blood Frenzy. It may not double damage (gives +4/+0 instead), but it shares one really interesting use in multiplayer that none of the video examples can do. You can target and remove an opponent's creature that is attacking a different opponent. Not only do you pump for more damage, but you also destroy the attacker. It can be really great to assist in knocking out one player while removing a threat that would next be heading your way. And it's only in 50 decks on edhrec.

Very interesting topic! Thx guys!

Withstand Death would not work as expected when targeting Gargos. Gargos' fight triggers when they become the target of a spell, not when the spell resolves. So the indestructible would come after combat is already done. Just something to bear in mind.

Best Episode Ever. I will be using these filters forever. Great site design and excellent coverage of it. See you next week, I've got to go build...!

Even if this episode is slightly older, this has a lot of merit in the games where people moan about "well you won cause you played expensive cards". While expensive cards add speed and consistency, if you have a stronger synergy and focus than another deck, you can still easily win. Harkening to the MArchesa and the Mutiny style cards, I DID play that deck and it WAS fun. The reason I ended up changing it was partly meta call (opponents didn't always have creatures to nab), but my deck also revolved so much around my opponents and their stuff, I didn't have anything of my own. I found interacting with myself was more powerful and reliable than relying on my opponents. In that same vein though, just because someone plays shocks and fetchlands or Mana Crypts does not immediately mean your deck is inherently "stronger", it just means they are more consistent in getting mana and casting their things on time or sooner

In najeela isn't there a combo using cryptolith rite that allows the creatures you attack with to then tap for mana to activate the commander and make another combat step allowing for infinite combats and an instant win (you need a vigilence enabler I think)? Matt is correct that the value is low at a base level but the value of wining the game is near infinite.

@patrickcripps4958

4 жыл бұрын

yes if you more then 5 or any vigilance effect

@ryanmanning2319

4 жыл бұрын

Najeela and 4 warriors with a rite in play and wubrg mana. Attack with your five creatures and create five more creatures. Then pay wubrg to untap them all, give them haste, and take another combat. During the second attack you attack with 5 creatures and leave five back to tap for wubrg. you then make 5 more warriors, untap your creatures, and get another attack, something you can repeat ad infinitum.

Cooooool episode thanks guys!

New favorite deck is my 37.50$ Zada hedron grinder. Almost all the token makers and goblin synergies. It's a pauper edh and can go blow for blow with regular edhs. Absolutely love brewing pauper edh really helps you find new strategies to enjoy. I find 50$ is usually ideal for really fun brewing.

Taking budget into a example is a good example on how you can build Thassa, Deep Dwelling in so many ways. A good example for myself is limiting myself to 80$ USD an making a clone deck in turn: My wincon is your wincon, and or I will use methods of stealing your things to make better use of them by cloning.. several times over.

I need those card sleeves in my life now

About Najeela, the warriors can certainly tap for mana on that turn, if you activate the ability on Najeela, it untaps all creatures and gives them haste. This very easily makes activating Najeela unlimited times possible, making it a combo piece. The change to song of freyalise is because the 3 phase is a nice upside, and as for the budget. It is an uncommon in a large print set.

Y'all were already doing a great job, but the Command Zone's editors have made your video content fantastic!

Frank wasn't a monster, he made a monster

@josephmarler859

4 жыл бұрын

Frank was the real monster

I think you're the best commander podcast

One thing I always like to talk about with budget with my friends (I am lucky and have more disposable income to spend on cardboard) is that expensive doesn't always equal better or more powerful. If you have a mono blue deck, adding Scalding Tarn will not give you an insane advantage over say, an Evolving Wilds. Usually, higher budget means higher efficiency, lower CMC cards that do similar/same things as more expensive CMC cards or the card is simply old/reserve listed. That is a scarcity/demand problem, not always power level. Look at Kodama's Reach vs Cultivate. Before, Cultivate was less than a dollar and Kodama's Reach was two-ish. KR is essentially the same card, but was printed fewer times and had similar demand. Spending more money on your deck doesn't always make it better in play, but typically those that have a higher budget will have a more focused strategy. I would honestly love to play the 91 swamp Sidisi deck (and probably will) and watch my multiple hundred dollar Karador legends/high mana creature deck lose every single time on turn 6.

You don't play Berserk to boost power. You play Berserk because it's G: Destroy target creature.

Kaho, Minamo Historian is also a 95-97 land deck if you click budget, because mana severance/ lab man combo.

@zackzack9341

4 жыл бұрын

It is now a mana severance and thassa's oracle combo

How should I build Golos? Valakut, Maze's End, Field of the Dead or Dark Depths + Thespian Stage? Is it okay to play all of them together?

@jahpal9275

4 жыл бұрын

I've seen a land matter build that runs everything you named. The nice thing about golos, is that there's no list that looks like another. We played a 5 man pod with 5 different golos strategy (Land matter, Mana rock, top deck manipulation, good stuff, infinite mana), he's really open ended when you look at the possibilities !

26:05 SEGUEY MAN 😂😂

I built Muldrotha with doubling season and parallel lives. bloodspore thrinax and saproling burst for a +1/+1 and token themed deck.. once it's going its going ;) Im now building "MulJodah" with all my good legends from some booster boxes i got last year, including 2 Dominaria. i got the doublers and some decent golgari lands and thallids for my first EDH deck Slimefoot :)

@tornadojoe87

4 жыл бұрын

i use most of those red spells and even all the green spells to pump my commanders ;) Marwyn/Renata and Zada/Kazarov/Valduuk Awesome im going to get twilights call to go with my living death!

@zackzack9341

4 жыл бұрын

I have a muldrotha deck with hive mind and pact of negation cause nobody runs blue at my table

Where can I find that music

Is there a way in EDHREC to input a number of cards and have the website suggest a commander based on those cards? I'm often brewing around nonlegendary cards, but don't always know how to move forward from there.

@EDHRECast

4 жыл бұрын

You can't do this for whole decklists, but if there is a certain card you like you can go to that card's page and use advanced filters to find commanders with certain decks pairing non-legendary cards together.

@andrewp979

4 жыл бұрын

@@EDHRECast awesome thanks! I'm having trouble finding the advanced filter for a card in the 99. I can find it easily when looking at a commander. For example, I feel like chulane and yarok pair really well, I'd like to be able to search for decks with both of them in the 99.

How are the number of decks, percentage, and ranks calculated? Are they just based off of decks people have submitted and the percentage is how many of those commander decks out of all submitted decks? And is the rank calculated by tournament wins or just overall use?

@suikodin2501

4 жыл бұрын

When they said "top 10%", it was in reference to [total cost of deck]. There is currently no reasonable way to record/rank a deck's effectiveness, it is after all a casual format.

It doesn't surprise me that strategies could change based on budget. To the extreme end, if you take a deck worth thousands down to less than $100, you're going to see a much more nuttered appearing deck with multiple specific goals. My Breya deck, the first deck I truly made on my own, was less than $100 and it is filled with tons of jank as it tries to do multiple things Breya decks want to do, but if you look at my Infect Atraxa or Ur-Dragon you will see a clear and concise plan since they cost nearly $400 each.

Challenge the Challenge the Stats: Cryptolith Rite and Song of Freylese are just combo pieces for an infinite combat win, you never cast them until you moving for the win so they don't telegraph anything.

Maelstrom Wanderer's budget tab has an average of 68 lands, because of the 97 land Wanderer deck.

So THAT'S what a budget Golos deck looks like, well this is awkward. - whispers reassurances to the tribal 9 drop Golos deck -

After binge watching four of your episodes in thier entirety I finally subscribed great content

You can build marchesa with mutiny cards or you can build her with strong etb cards like dockside extorsionist and 12 sac outlets. 😂

Kokusho isn't a cheap card any more? Kokusho was never a cheap card! Back in my tabletop jank days of college when Kamigawa released, we'd dream about having a play set of kokusho... it never happened for me lol.

Thanks I'm going to reevaluate my net decks

35:50 now that you mention _Living Death_ , I have a question about it: let say there are 5 creatures in play and I have a _Demon of Dark Schemes_ in my graveyard, if I play _Living Death_ I get 5 energy?

@FrostJarl

4 жыл бұрын

0 energy, the creatures will have died before the demon enters the battlefield

the good saw

If you have 6 creatures in play with cryprolith rite and Najeela's rainbow ability you'll have infinite mana🤔 Or I get something wrong? xd

MOROPHON - GOD TRIBAL is FUN FUN

"Hey did you guys liked my Living Death? Want to do it again?"

Can you please do this a third time but talk about mana base in budget?

Great content. I feel the (incorrect) assumption/bias was that higher budget decks were made by smarter deck builders... Just because a deck is more expensive, that doesn't mean it's the 'tuned up' version. Unfortunately ya'll kept falling into that mentality several times during the episode.

@suikodin2501

4 жыл бұрын

Specifically interchanging: 'tuned' and 'expensive' when they are not a direct correlation...

AAAaaa, ngl the incorrect effect affect usage in the on screen titles got to me at first

If I could remove one card from existence it would be flayer the hardbound

The problem with Magic is that the term powerful is made out to seem like it would be fun. A lot of time you have one or two people that become accosted at the LGS for having the competitive decks. At my LGS there is this guy who has "fuck you" money where he can put stupid things in his decks. No one plays him at the shop because it's pointless to waste time shuffling your deck , when he will obviously win. Instead you could play three more games with sensible individuals and a chance to let your deck perform. I'm thankful for the budget episode.

watching old videos is fun because lol anointed 10$??? god i wish i had picked it up back then but i wasnt playing

Canadian?

But Frankenstein was the Doctor, not the monster :(

I wanted to point out that Undying and Persist do not synergize the way Dana mentioned. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a creature with Undying and Persist dies, both triggers go on the stack. The player orders the triggers, then the first trigger will resolve with the creature receiving the appropriate counter. However, the second trigger will fizzle because the creature is no longer in the graveyard.

@Thane627

4 жыл бұрын

Thomas Agregaard What you are saying is true; however, I think what Dana is saying here is that you could alternate the triggers as the Archmage dies. So when it dies the first time, bring it back with a -1/-1 counter from persist. Then the second time it dies, use Mikaeus’ Undying ability to bring it back with a +1/+1 counter that it didn’t have before. Which also combos with the Marchesa they are talking about since she can bring back thanks to its new counter. I do agree that it could have been explained a bit better, his example is correct, as is your ruling.

Budget? What's that? Don't all new players just proxy their entire decks these days?

Uh - first?

@Slo-Mode

4 жыл бұрын

You got it bro!

I don't understand, where do people listen to this, 72 views lol

@JCave-br8ss

4 жыл бұрын

Spotify, Google Play, and iTunes

@johnweinhandl8890

4 жыл бұрын

Sticher too

3.30 minutes wasted with the opener.

@Chickenman161

4 жыл бұрын

Lol yup

For such a well produced podcast, that KZread thumbnail sure is... not great :(