It's not the bike, it's a poor, oldschool technique and a lack of ability to adapt. She was much too far on the back of the bike with her butt much too low on the back wheel while she should be much more forward at the beginning with her chest over the stem, her arms fully bent and knees in a front of her toes and then should straighten the arms when she came over the edge. Actually, a smaller, shorter bike could cause even bigger crash with her poor technique.

@lee_likes_bikes

4 ай бұрын

Thank you for that perspective! That sounds like some of the teaching I see online.

@snek9353

3 ай бұрын

@@lee_likes_bikes BUUUURNNN

@lee_likes_bikes

3 ай бұрын

@@snek9353I find it distressing how some illogical ideas and dangerous techniques have become the norm. I believe it’s because the main entities who “certify” “coaches” (both in air quotes) are teaching a flawed approach.

@snek9353

3 ай бұрын

@@lee_likes_bikes IDK about coaches and all that. But as an old MTBer that's been riding since the 90s, and participating in current forums and such. There's certainly trends in beliefs and products I'm not a fan of.

@snek9353

3 ай бұрын

@@lee_likes_bikes BTW the handlebar vids ya did on Joy of Bike helped me a lot. I to have messed up shoulders and while I've gone rather narrow I never paid that much attention to back sweep before. Now I'm looking for 16deg bars that'll work for me. The SQ won't, they're too wide, thinking the Sim Works Little Nick.

Let's speculate. What would've happened if she'd had a shorter bike? She was obviously afraid and was trying to get as far back as possible. He arms would've still been straight and he hips would've still been way back. I predict she would've gotten to the bottom BUT she would've fallen on her back P.S. or she could have lost her balance in the middle of the feature and fallen over to the side P.P.S. Long bike are made for a specific style of riding. And using brakes scrubbing down a speet feature is not it

I’m way too cool to argue in the comments, but Lee, if you replace caused with contributed you would be 1000% beyond reproach.

@lee_likes_bikes

4 ай бұрын

Such a good point!!!! This is so challenging. My first draft went into all the factors I see, with all the subtleties. But it was way too much detail for most people. Joy of Bike we learned that each video can only contain one number or fact, or people get confused. So I went with a simpler statement … and that’s not enough detail! This is one reason why 1:1 coaching is so valuable; I tell you everything you need to hear, no more nor less, in the way you need to hear it. You made a great point man. 🙏🏼🤙🏼✨

@justinfournier1285

4 ай бұрын

@@lee_likes_bikes Value for value Brother! Keep on going.

Lee, could you talk a bit more about that trick with an inverted riser bar to help smaller riders in this situation? Is it safe? Would you recommend it? I'm 1,64cm. Where I live there are no 29ers that fit my RAD and I'm on the smallest stem and frame available. Thank you Lee for being such a legend! Namastoke

@lee_likes_bikes

4 ай бұрын

Hi and thank you!!! I run inverted riser bars on my trail bike. It’s often the only way to get the fit I need … and I’m statistically median height for a male. With big wheels and tall forks I fit most guys my size or smaller that way, and most women need inverted bars for a RAD fit. People at the companies that make bars say it’s safe. Tons of details on the book Dialed and in my mtb school at www.leelikesbikes.com. Does that help?

@Yarkhan

4 ай бұрын

@@lee_likes_bikes Awesome! Thank you! Best of luck for you and the pink mistress on the upcoming races!

To me, it looked like a lack of confidence, and upper body/core strength. What do you think about keeping long reaches, but running really short stems with extra stack?

@lee_likes_bikes

4 ай бұрын

To my eye as a professional MTB skills coach she looks strong and skilled. I can appreciate why she'd be nervous and a bit tense and just a bit too far back. But the issue is that her arm range was used up to simply reach the grips. There was no range left to manage the down angle. No stem can fix that unless it's mounted backward. A taller bar might feel more comfy, but it will actually reduce her arm range even more. The solution is a bike that's built for her size and proportions. Or her choosing trails she can ride with her available range of motion. She can learn some 'special' techniques to make that work better, but the fit (and her safety) will always be a compromise.

@cunning-stunt

4 ай бұрын

I agree, she had an arch in her back and an inability to hold the bars straight and maintain the line. Also her butt is on the rear tyre so she is unable to use her legs to absorb the compression. She should have been more over the front with less of a squat in her legs. If her but had been more over the saddle she would have had heaps of reach. She was also moving too slow to maintain balance. I have short and long bikes, it really makes little difference when you have correct body position.

@lee_likes_bikes

4 ай бұрын

@@cunning-stunt I agree she might have made it work had she been farther forward on the bike, but then her weight would be unsafely in front of the bottom bracket. That technique can work for sure, but the rider has to be very skilled. For most civilian riders, it's just not safe to be anywhere but perfectly balanced. Also, someone with legs that length will find steeps easier with a smaller rear wheel.

@tagzedawg

4 ай бұрын

Maybe a lot of that "lack of confidence" is a consequence of being on a bike that doesn't fit.

@lee_likes_bikes

4 ай бұрын

I agree fully. She looks like a pretty solid rider who is fighting the bike.

perhaps the issue comes from "rolling" this feature rather than keeping a little speed and lifting that front wheel as the take off happens. Landing as much with both wheels simultaneously as possible. I don't know nearly enough to determine if bike size is an issue for the rider in this video.

@lee_likes_bikes

4 ай бұрын

Hi Matt! To manual off that drop would be so gnarly! I can't imagine her puling that off. I'm loving all the discussion here. What do you think about me doing a more detailed video that gets into more of the dynamics?

Haha ok let’s blame the bike 😂

@lee_likes_bikes

4 ай бұрын

I'm all about the person's mastery, but in this case the bike played a major role in the crash. A highly skilled rider can make a too-big bike work, but why incur extra risk?

@wx2999

4 ай бұрын

He's not blaming the bike, he saying it wasn't a great fit. Like a sprinter trying to run in shoes that fit way too loose

@themtbproject1422

4 ай бұрын

@@wx2999 she shouldn’t have been near that feature in my opinion no matter what bike she’s on.

@lee_likes_bikes

4 ай бұрын

@@themtbproject1422 what makes you say that?

@themtbproject1422

4 ай бұрын

@@lee_likes_bikesfrom what I can see she is already in a defensive position all the way back in the bike , she is sitting very low and back at the moment that the front wheel drop she has nowhere to go except hitting the rear tire with her ass. In my opinion she should be much taller with her legs so that she can bring her shoulder lower and have more bending in the arms for the extension.

Lee's a legend, and I'm sure he has a point here. But I see a timid rider approaching a feature in a squat with arms already extended and already sitting on the back tire, with no where to go as she then goes down the rock roll and predictably gets pulled over the bars. If she had approached with more confidence, hinged at the hips with her chin closer to the stem, heels dropped, and legs straighter and then "pushed" through the roll I think this would have been fine.

@lee_likes_bikes

4 ай бұрын

Thank you. I agree with everything you're saying. All that is much easier with anatomically appropriate frame size, bar/stem, bar width and crank length. Yeah crank length too. I love how juicy this is.

@justinkrogue6073

4 ай бұрын

@@lee_likes_bikes Yeah that's fair enough. Ride on, my friend!

@justinkrogue6073

4 ай бұрын

@@lee_likes_bikes What crank lengths are you running these days? I'm your height and really enjoying my switch to 165s but curious for your take

@lee_likes_bikes

4 ай бұрын

@@justinkrogue6073 My main bike (Pink Mistress) has 170s because that's what I have. The production bike in that size will come with 155s. I've looked into this crank-length thing as only I the obsessed polymath nerd can. There are many advantages to shorter. I've tested down to 100mm .. and dang they are amazing downhill -- closer to a motocross footpeg, which is probably biomechanically ideal. FUN!

Rider ran outta rope. This is a problem with a frame which is too long, and also with bars which are too wide. They both limit how much you can move around on the bike, or have the bike move around under you. The ape-hanger bars really restrict how much "off-center" you can be on the bike. Same problem with long reach, you just have no arm angle to extend FURTHER once you are behind seat, if the bike is too big/long. it's a very common problem nowadays, with the bike shops and companies pushing the bigger/longer/slacker thing incessantly. One of the best riders I know is 5'10" and rides 680 bars, he says he can move around better without any restriction. I'm 5'9" and run 740s, for same reason. Not everyone is going 30mph in the desert when the control of a 810 bar is desired.

@jaad7562

4 ай бұрын

First of all, there's no reason to be behind the seat in her situation - she should start rather slightly in a front of the bike and then move to the center. Second of all, a longer bike requires much more movement to be destabilized and getting lower makes it even more stable, which would help a lot in that case, but getting low does not mean to get behind the seat - that's an oldschool technique, completely obsolete and redundant with modern bikes.

If she rides this a couple more times she will nail it. Everyone here in this forum has crashed. You even crashed on a bike that fits you!!! The next time you get to that spot you ride it better and make it through.

Yes bike looks a little long from her arse on the wheel but she looks short so a mullet could help her there. Mostly I see with this what I see in a lot of crash videos like this: being to slow and not dynamic on the bike so you can commit and ride through/down the feature as opposed to being a passenger. One she got to that lip she was just a passenger. She could have been standing a bit taller but in good hip hinge and more forward. Leaning back and pulling back on the bars lifted her front wheel. Being forward and still applying pressure to the front but being centred and low would have keep the front wheel on the ground the whole way through. That’s my unprofessional opinion anyway haha

@wx2999

4 ай бұрын

Love my mullet DH bike. I'm actually converting my enduro full 29 to mullet this season. Feels more natural to turn, and no tire buzz on ultrasteep stuff.

@alex_rogan

4 ай бұрын

@@wx2999 nice. What are you riding? I’m not on a mullet and never ridden one but have been looking at the new Santa Cruz Nomad. So many people tell me once you go mullet it’s hard to go back.

@wx2999

4 ай бұрын

@@alex_rogan the DH bike is a 2021 Commencal Supreme 203/215, the other one is a 2019 Bird AM9 160/150mm

@user-kj8sl5vx2s

4 ай бұрын

got a nomad mullet coming from a 2019 SC Hightower LT -great bike but the nomad is considerably better, cornering, steep chunky decents, jumps well and climbs pretty well@@alex_rogan

Many bikes are getting too long. You lose control when a bike is too long. She would have been able to keep the rear wheel down and pull on the front end near the bottom had the bike been shorter. I am not sure why the bike industry keeps pushing longer and slacker bikes on everyone. We have gone way past the sweet spot.

Looks more likely to me that she was feathering the front brake, causing the rear tire to come up.

she is too low and not on the bars enough as she reaches the edge of the rock roll. She is literally sitting on the rear tire and that is why her front tire breaks contact w the rock face, and then traction and control are lost. The bike doesn't look that oversized for her, but it is hard to tell from this clip.

@lee_likes_bikes

4 ай бұрын

Interesting perspective. How does that work in terms of Newtonian mechanics?

@petedog9581

4 ай бұрын

@@lee_likes_bikes If her butt is on the tire, she cannot keep the front wheel in contact with the slope of the rock face. You don't teeter-totter over the edge of a drop.

@lee_likes_bikes

4 ай бұрын

@@petedog9581 Thank you for the elucidation, but I still do not understand.

@petedog9581

4 ай бұрын

@@lee_likes_bikes Sorry. It seems clear to me. I guess that's all that matters.

@lee_likes_bikes

4 ай бұрын

@@petedog9581 That is wonderful. All you need is a coherent way of looking at the world. Enjoy the journey.

... Or, maybe she was just having an off day and made a mistake.

@lee_likes_bikes

4 ай бұрын

Nice perspective!!!!