I can’t wait for Saturday’s vid

@corrugatedcavalier5266

3 ай бұрын

That will probably be multiple!

Looks great! Do you have access to any reenactment manafactures? in uk we can get a hoplite sheild for 100$

While I know it is inevitable for blades to clash in the heat of battle, seeing some blade crossings, do you consider things like archaeology of blades to determine if binding was done? I would think binds would be something to try to avoid with bronze (but then this same discussion happens too often in regards to Japanese swordsmanship). Are you considering including Celtic or early Roman stuff in this? If you do, I've heard that the Celtiberians may have focused on thrusting with the falcata, despite its famous broadness.

@corrugatedcavalier5266

2 ай бұрын

There's not really any focus on binding with the swords here, when it's done it's incidental. It's certainly an interesting thing to consider, but by the archaic period most swords were also iron afaik.

It would be interesting to see how it looks like with shields that are as big as hoplites had

@corrugatedcavalier5266

Ай бұрын

Agreed. Working on it!

Thanks for the video! This is fascinating. I've been doing Boffer fighting for a while, and used to focus mainly on two-handed spears. Now, I'm trying to train with Hoplomachus-style equipment, which is very similar to/inspired by the styles you're showing here. There are a lot of things to experiment with here, for sure. You mentioned the shield size before, and I think it may be critical to the techniques here. Since you have large vital targets exposed in your upper arms and thighs, it seems to encourage moving your shield forward and turning sideways to minimize possible angles. It turns into something like fencing where you fight for control over center lines and tempo that allow attacks they can't react to. It's very dynamic and quick. What I'm curious about is how small changes to the equipment could change the effective styles. Using a shield large enough to cover your shoulder, for instance, would leave only the head and shins as targets, much farther off the center line. Would using the "clearing" stance with a shield like this be enough to effectively force a stalemate against a spear? Your weight's back, so you can pick your front foot up, and any shots at your head should be glancing. This also brings me to helmets and greaves. I couldn't quite tell; were you counting all head and leg shots? There may be an interesting dynamic (if you were in historical armor) where I think you could face your shins and head correctly to deflect a stab. Instead of fully lifting your shield to parry over your head, is it better to parry up into the side of your helmet? This is amplified even more considering a Hoplomachus's equipment, where a stab to the head is definitely not doing anything more than a blunt push. At first it kinda sounded boring, but I think there could be an interesting dynamic here where all the clear avenues for attack are closed, forcing both sides to create them, which brings me to my next thought lol. The Hoplomachus was depicted as wielding both a shield and a short sword in their left hand, with a spear in their right. This is something I'd really like your opinion on. I've only just started experimenting with incorporating this, but there are some interesting implications. Most of them boil down to presenting a lethal threat when your spear can't; for instance, if you jam a spear between someone and their shield, you can open their guard and stab them yourself instead of needing someone else to do it.

@corrugatedcavalier5266

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment! It's important to note that we're not going for Roman gladiatorial combat here, rather duels between single Greek hoplites in archaic or classical Greece. We were not counting hits to the side of the head or areas where our greaves (though not historical greaves) covered as these would have been armored. So thrusts straight to the face counted. But you do bring up an interesting scenario. I know from my experience fighting in full medieval European harness that there is no such thing as a stalemate if you're good at wrestling, however!

@themekahippie991

2 ай бұрын

​@@corrugatedcavalier5266 "It's important to note that we're not going for Roman gladiatorial combat here, rather duels between single Greek hoplites in archaic or classical Greece." Yea, I noted that in my comment lol. It's just incredibly similar because the Hoplomachus was styled off the exact same Greek fighters you're styling yourselves off. The weapons, shields, and greaves they used were identical to the ones you're using. The only difference is a larger helmet (which is almost modeled in size by yours) and some extra padding (which I'm not sure how you'd model). What differences do you think are important to the dueling technique here? "there is no such thing as a stalemate if you're good at wrestling, however!" Yea, that's kinda what I was getting at with the sword being held off-hand. If two spears get into a grapple, sure you can win the grapple, but you've lost immediate lethal threats unless you can draw your dagger, get space to bash hard enough with a shield, or get range for your spear. With a dagger held offhand, a grapple is an immediate lethal threat again. This is why I was wondering if it was related to the difficulty of getting through someone's defenses; with your setup, kills are often too quick to get into a grapple. With more coverage, maybe you need these grappling maneuvers, making that offhand dagger effective.

hell yeah!

@corrugatedcavalier5266

3 ай бұрын

Agreed!

Can't wait until we get another chance to try this stuff out!

@corrugatedcavalier5266

3 ай бұрын

Same! I probably won't have it done by next time, but hopefully with an aspis soon!

Do yall base your hoplite combat solely on vases (? Or are there any other sources?

@corrugatedcavalier5266

3 ай бұрын

It is primarily based on artistic depictions and experimentation within that. We do reference some period literature as well but it's not very helpful on specific actions. I also incorporate some Bolognese partisan and rotella.

@Aaa-hl6oj

2 ай бұрын

@@corrugatedcavalier5266 Ok that's interesting, do yee olden Greek texts not have any information (? I know that the Iliad and Odyssey are very useful at understand military technology, so maybe there are references in the epics (?

What side sword do u use? btw great videos keep it up

@corrugatedcavalier5266

3 ай бұрын

Thanks! Here I'm using a purpleheart armory cinquedea "basic trainer" to stand in as a xiphos, my partner is using a polypropylene training kukri. They're both pretty hard plastic so we don't go too hard with them.

@KK-qs8oh

3 ай бұрын

@@corrugatedcavalier5266 with a friend from the club, we want to fight in a similar convention but we only have spears so thanks for the answer I will know what to look for. What about your shields did you make them yourself or did you order them from somewhere?

@corrugatedcavalier5266

3 ай бұрын

@KK-qs8oh theyre plastic "riot shields" from ebay and the like, just painted from the back. They are smaller than an aspis for sure, but they're still fun. Pretty good for rotella if you do Bolognese

Does the overhand grip (posture of Athena) even work i feel it's very liminting compared to the underhand one (posture Theseus and hunter i think)

@corrugatedcavalier5266

3 ай бұрын

It absolutely works, and is my preferred grip. I feel the underhand grip is more limiting, personally.

@gehlesen559

3 ай бұрын

100% it does.

I feel like you are just doing hema but with spear and shield. My belief is that this is pretty far of from formation combat of ancient times. Still, nice techniques!

@corrugatedcavalier5266

2 ай бұрын

This isn't intended to be formation fighting.

@Granalfsson

2 ай бұрын

@@corrugatedcavalier5266 Well then, that settles it i suppose :)