Atleast it took 14 out instead of adding 14

@eformance

2 жыл бұрын

_He asked for a 13, but they drew a 31_ 😆

@dmeemd7787

2 жыл бұрын

@@eformance LoL

@edwardthayer9386

2 жыл бұрын

I'd like to believe there was a protection for that.

@MegaMyk777

2 жыл бұрын

There is…. always verify timing w a light

@billclark5943

2 жыл бұрын

@@MegaMyk777 true but you'd think there should be some level of confidence the system is performing as intended once base timing is set. Apparently a bug know one else discovered previously

Thank you for shattered your experiences with us Steve! I know alot of us really appreciate it. First thing I said when seeing your video was "Timing" but why. Thank You! Have a great weekend everyone.

Wow, one little thing changed made a huge difference and lucky it was just less power as a result and not damage. Great tip!

Very informative , thanks for that. Timing is obviously very important ( or lack thereof) .

Cost me 2 sets of pistons and 2 sets of sleeves and rods in my 11.200 Deck BBFs to find that problem!! I loved when we Just had Carburetors and a Distributors !!! How Brave are "you" add this much in timing with a 1/4 turn of an1/2" wrench !!! Born in '56

That, my friends, is an honest to god PRO TIP! Golden knowledge there!! Thanks, Steve.

Thanks Steve for yet another pro tip. Please keep your videos coming, they make a armchair wanna be hot rodder like me feel like I actually know something 🙂

Wow,that’s not right to go back to default. Thank god you thought about it later and caught it. You are very good at what you do!!!

That's nice that everybody can see that on the internet great job

Good catch! Would totally expect it to keep the same setting. 💯🙌✌

I can only imagine that adding 14 degrees of timing plus additional 10lbs of boost to a 3,000 horse engine would be the same as detonating 14 pounds of C4 in the dyno room.

@I_like_turtles_67

Жыл бұрын

😂

Great content thanks for sharing, very informative

14 Degrees= More Horsepower Than I Have Ever Had!!!!! Keep Rocking It Out!!!

that is crazy! It should always ask if you want to save for a change! Thx for sharing!

@KCadbyRacing

2 жыл бұрын

It does ask. This appeared to happen because of a simple lack of communication (which likely ended with Steve telling everyone don't EVER touch the dyno computer when he's in the middle of tuning someone's engine)...

Awesome Video!!

Always a good idea to take a picture of the screen before making any changes. Or a pad and pencil.

Thanks for the information; it protects the engine just incase.

Proof, learn something new everyday. LOL. Thanks Steve!

Love the videos Steve!

I definitely had a feeling it had lost a bunch of timing, but had no clue that the reference angle could be change that much. Luckily nothing was hurt

Good information thank you

I like your decals.

good info.. i noticed early on another thing that'll get people, the handheld wizard (base tune config) will input holley default values, where in the software when configuring things it puts a different default value.. the reference angle is one of these values. may wanna tell your tech to open another copy of the software when checking things and not to touch active tuning windows lol. coulda been much worse and gone with other way with that timing..

Great information!

Imagine if it added 14 degrees of timing and you added 10 lbs of boost .

@RadDadisRad

2 жыл бұрын

It ran so good until it didn’t…

Cool, we were talking about detuning back when you showed us the SMX for Woody. Somebody said how can you take enough power out to make it steetable? I said, take enough boost and timing out and it would be good on the street. This proves my point (even with more boost) less timing, less power.

Love the Gretta & Animal Farm stickers. 👍

Gotta love those holes in common sense processes from the software engineers.... Also got to congratulate you on getting PT stuff working well for you. I honestly gave up after few years of trying and running into oscillations and noise difficulties all the time. I couldn't get a straight line graph out of it even with a steady state pull. Of course, we are racing in a class where you are mid pack with 118 HP and got the pole if you are getting 124.5 HP, so the fine gains just weren't being quantified too well. Just found your channel and must say loving the content and subscibed! Thanks.

@kyrujames

2 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't necessarily call it a 'hole' but it does seem silly to the average person to default that window back but i also see why it is the way it is. A lot of standalones and windows software will work like that unless extra attention to programming is involved. I'm sure their efforts in programming lie elsewhere, and maybe that's something they'll revise.

@kwasg3

2 жыл бұрын

Na its complete crap!! Holley represents that their pricey tuning software is the way to get a good tune yet "checking" a setting can create a change without alerting the end user whos job is work on the motor not the software. Its like a torque wrench that changes a value once it is used.. If this tune happened to have the pointer offset the other way, the timing change could have been catastrophic on a $100K motor. Holley would just say tough shit, eat it.

@KCadbyRacing

2 жыл бұрын

@@kwasg3 It isn't crap... First, Steve's guy didn't just 'check' a setting, he "changed the Type of Crank Sensor" and since each Type of Sensor opens with it's own Default settings it only makes sense that it's going to open the defaults when the "Type of Crank Sensor is changed again". Second, System Parameter changes don't get sent to the ECU live (you need to Sync and send System changes) and third, the end user DOES get Alerted!! The next time the computer is synced with the ECU it will show a "Fail" (with Red LED) on System Parameters (if/when any settings in the ECU are different from what's open on the computer) and your given a choice to either get from or send to. Mistakes were made here but they weren't Holley's fault...

@kwasg3

2 жыл бұрын

@@KCadbyRacing Well that's not what the video represents. Steve didn't check the setting, it was a complete ready to go tune at some development point on the dyno, and one of his guys checked a setting to nail it down in conversation maybe, and it reverted to a holley preset. This shouldn't happen in any software. And my experience with holley is that they don't pay attention to any detail that isn't a primary thing to help sales of their product, period. They're quality control is zero. And this isn't Holley, the original people from the 60's that did inovative cool shit and high quality stuff for 40 years, but the mega corp that has conglomerated holley and a dozen other hotrod lines all under one roof and has zero quality control.

@KCadbyRacing

2 жыл бұрын

@@kwasg3 You need to watch the first 14-seconds again, where Steve says "this is about the Holley systems AND OTHER SYSTEMS" = this can happen with any/all systems (not just Holley). Coming from someone that has done "nothing but Custom Configuration/Tunes" (for Holley, Maxx, FuelTec and others) on NA, NO2 and Turbo street and Race Bikes), I can say the software works 100% as intended. Three basic mistakes were made here and this video proves it could happen to anyone no matter how smart and or experienced they are. First: Never EVER touch someone's computer/tune without telling them. Second: Never EVER make "changes" to a tune without FIRST doing a "Save-As" with a different name (so CHANGES aren't made to an ongoing tune). Third: someone missed seeing the "Waring/Fail that System Parameters were changed" and SENT THE CHANGES TO THE ECU. My experience with Holley has been (11 years of building/tuning Custom Calibrations for motorcycles) is they (the Holley engineers and tuners that have helped me over the years) have payed very close attention to any/all details that can (and have) vastly improved what the Holley ECUs (and software) is capable of and I have never once had any quality control issues with any of the "many" ECUs I have worked with...

Good info to know .thanks for sharing 👍👍

Wow thanks for the tip I would have been pulling my hair out if that happened to me. Curious if you brought this to Holley's attention and/or has this been resolved with an update?

I had the same problem with going between batch fire to sequential where it would default the coil pack dwell time back to 1.5ms

🤣🤣🤣🤣@the how dare you sticker

I love the Gretta "How Dare You!" sticker.

Thanks

Wow! Great info. Have you chatted with Holley to let them possibly note that as a bug for future updates?

this video was not for us. it was for his employee that did it

my CAM software will do that with feeds and speeds sometimes.

Does it allow you to modify the default settings if so you can program the default setting at the desired timing

Having done a fair amount of plc work, that laptop is a powerful tool - it is the system master when online. But regarding these Holley systems, are there different modes to work with? I am thinking of 'view' vs 'programming' [however they might call it]. I do not like walking away from a system for so much as a coffee break except I can leave it in a 'view' only mode. Anyway, saving data/configuration is something to really pay attention to in any system. Superb tip on triggering: there are reasons to use either edge, but most [2/3] electronics I have seen hands on used trailing edge, and mainly because its often the least noisy of the two ends of the same signal.

Return to default is a code problem way back to windows 98 and before. Simple fix tell Holley they can have it fixed . Good video .

@words_guy5750

2 жыл бұрын

Looks like Holley is busy working on new intakes instead of fixing this bug. 🤠 kzread.info/dash/bejne/a4OCrrxshcayfNI.html

@paulcopeland9035

2 жыл бұрын

@@words_guy5750 ...Chances are they didn't realize the "real life" problem. Computer types sometimes need a little "push" to reality.

Good tech info #!!!

Wow well at least there was no damage to the engine so a lesson learned .

Ooh, yikes! Its like having the polarity of the wires your crank sensor backwards. Its a GOOD thing in your case that it retarded rhe timing instead of advancing it. 😯 That WOULD have ended up catastrophic. Thanks for pointing that issue in the software out to us!.... 👍 🍻

This is why i have a copy of my tuning software on a computer that is never hooked to an ecm, that way i can screw around in the software and look at stuff without accidentally causing myself a problem.

Steve did you happen to record EGT's? It would be very interesting to see the 2 high boost runs EGT levels with the timing difference.

@AB-80X

Жыл бұрын

Let's just agree that the run with the low timing would be HOT! Those poor exhaust valves lol.

Steve thanks for your knowledge. Your always correct in sorting out any problems that a lot of tuners won't tell you about. What a sweet motor. 💯🆒👍 Aussie Fan 🤟🇦🇺😎

had this happen yesterday, only with switching from direction injection to port injection, when i switched it back it changed my injectors to default l83 instead of lt4 and pulled 30% fuel on my drive home

nice window sticker

I've noticed this behavior before when the software has drop-down menus that cascade, or depend on another drop-down menu choice. It makes them reload/reset the choices in the dependent drop-down (s). Best way to do what his colleague did is to make sure the current tune is saved to disk first, then when done tinkering close tune and when prompted to save on exit, click no. Any changes will be ignored. Great tip tho to raise awareness of the potential problem.

@wingracer1614

2 жыл бұрын

I've worked on some management software for a completely different type of equipment but with the exact same problem. Fortunately nothing is changed on the actual equipment until you export the settings to it. So if you just want to play around with it to see what it can do without actually changing anything, you just don't export it. You can even do it without even connecting the laptop to it. When you actually do want to tinker with the real thing, you open a fresh instance and import all settings from the equipment first. I have seen fires and failures from guys that did not realize this. When a 20 amp current limiter accidentally gets defaulted to off, sparks can fly, LOL

That must have been an interesting conversation with him. WTH man!?!?!

F$ck!! i couldnt figure out the sticker on the window! "how dare you" comment. then i saw the girls face. busted out laughing!!

🤣You're DONE Mitch !!!

Can’t believe this kinda oversight in Holley’s programming. Crazy. I don’t think under any circumstance should any setting return to default. I’ve had two cars now for some reason change the firing order too. Haven’t figured out what caused that.

That’s so informative Steve. You never stop learning. I’ve got a Fueltech 550 system in my car. Might look into making sure it doesn’t do what the Holley system does. Possibly a lockout or something?? Thanks for you knowledge mate.

Better 14 negative than 14 positive that might have burnt some piston holes!

@AB-80X

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, but I still think those exhaust valves are pretty pissed...

Steve, do you use the Holley knock system? It retards all cylinders equally. I make the J&S SafeGuard. It retards only the knocking cylinders.

So if it made 14 more degrees of timing instead of 14 dgrees less, were there any safeties setup to cut boost or anything else? or would you be dealing with pulling the engine apart?

@TurboV8boi

Жыл бұрын

The engine itself wouldn't have known the timing changed. The only thing that would be able to save this would be knock sensors. A lot of the time on an engine this race style there aren't knock sensors installed.

@kevin_nagle

Жыл бұрын

@@TurboV8boi exactly the engine doesn’t know how much timing you’re commanding and it doesn’t know if you understand how to check static timing. So what I was asking was if he would have set up a safety, you know an advanced table or simple timing safety, in the beginning of the dyno session if it did the opposite and accidentally made 14° more instead of 14° less due to his employee looking at the Holley setting.. if he would likely be pulling the engine apart because of it making 14° more instead of less. Would be the same if accidentally having your timing map 14° advanced over what you actually wanted and not realizing it and making a pull.

Can you dumb it down for us without tuning skills? What is reference angle? What is rising edge vs falling edge? When would either be useful. I assume these are timing curves, akin to changing bushings and weights in a distributor?

@TrueBDaddy

2 жыл бұрын

Reference angle is basically the same as where you set your timing pointer on your balancer. Imagine your balancer slipping 3 degrees backward from a seized accessory. Your pointer would then say tdc 3 degrees after actual tdc and your actual timing would be 3 degrees less advanced from what your timing light would read. The sensor reads the change from no tooth to tooth on the reluctor on the crank/cam. Rising edge means it reads the change from no tooth to tooth, falling edge means it reads the transition from tooth to no tooth. The difference in reading would depend on the size of the teeth.

I just went over this with Hp tuners and timing little different deal but same concept.

Damn... I need a Dominator!

Hi, Write Every down . Don't Rely on the computer or your memory . a mistake like that cold BE Very COSTLY $$$$ ! The Info gathered for Each build, Is invaluable Information for the " In Case " Happens. Love The content, keep it coming 😃👍

Ouch!!!!! If that was opposite, would have toasted that engine! Good tip.

2:51 charge air temp go up?

Wow 👌🏼. I can only imagine how much power my combination would make. I have 454 LSX with a 2.9 Whipple, I don’t know what heads to use for a daily. Anyway I’m new to your content and what can I see I was like a child, watching the twin turbo Lambo engine then this. This is automotive engine porn 😂🏆

Greta sticker plus animal farm quote. Respect.

How much for remote tune

Can anyone fill me in on while the Holley snipers are junk? I have some fun future turbo projects but am new to efi. Was hoping to learn on the sniper but if they are junk I’ll find something else

This sounds to me like a glitch in software that Holley needs to fix

How do you optimize timing to edge of deto or - or you dont?

@eformance

2 жыл бұрын

AFAIK, the trick is to use a "safe" fuel and add timing until it don't make more power, then back it down 1 or 2 degrees. As for "what is the offset for fuel X vs fuel Y", that's probably tribal knowledge.

@HPRaceDevelopment

2 жыл бұрын

@@eformance In a run that fast, I think it would be hard to really determine limits until you break it. On our engines, luckily they typically make best power before detonation timing limit is reached, and make the same power over 2-2.5 degree timing window usually. Im just always amazed how these high boost motors get optimized - lots of testing and broken parts I would think

Guessing by the comment at the very end that the employee that changed the computer setting got a little “tuned up”. 😉

What would have happened if it added 14deg instead if subtracting?

@ReEvoluion

2 жыл бұрын

Someone would have been out there with a broom and bag of oil dry, Steve would have been at the local watering hole contemplating his next move.

The other direction would have been very bad, unless you have a killer knock detection strategy in place...

Fortunately it didn’t add 14*. Parts on the floor!

lol to the Greta decal on the window

I like the picture on the window George Orwell's "all animals are created equal but some animals are more equal" very true how the 1% have more power in our politics than the middle class

"HOW DARE YOU!"

Makes sense, measured boost is just a function of back pressure, Gale Banks has all this sciences out to the point of ridiculousness!

wow

That seems like bug not a feature. If it would have added that timing you would have been sweeping up the dyno room floor.

I bet your glad the timing was reduced a d not the other way!

...decent MSD box, a turbo, a hat and a blow thru carb....done. lol

That could have been costly... Imagine it added 14deg. Boom.

That's like a whole other engine lol

More boost more heat

the computer was trying to save your motor from too much boost? AND,,,,,did the torque number go up?

@wingracer1614

2 жыл бұрын

No, watch the video

@dano4572

2 жыл бұрын

@@wingracer1614 Steve ,,you were showing an old 383 rebuild on an old sm chevy with great torque is what I'm looking for,not rpm,,, I have cash and want a no holds bar short block sm chevy that will make azz kicking torque for a 99 chevy 2 door 4x4 Tahoe for the street and last for 50k miles,,,,can you do such an animal??? moneys not a problem!

No comments about the engine seizing in the first two seconds of the video??? Steve, what happened there?

Forward this to Garrett lol

Lucky that timing didn't go the other way!

@BlaserBuilds

2 жыл бұрын

Troof!

This happens in the GTA 5 auto shop too. If you have decals on your tires and color applied to your decals, then go in and change wheels, it removes your decal and color choice on the tire, putting it back to default. So with each new wheel choice, you have to go in the tire menu and put the correct decal (ex Fukaru) and color back on.

What I learned from this is Now I need a Greta Thunberg decal!

lol got's know Hunt's ketchup blood work. Computer arrives mid-april😀😀😀😀

🤔

Holley should fix this.

I barely made it through 2 mins. Figure out what you want to say before you start the vid, Steve. That's why most creators have a script that they follow. If not, they end up meandering along, taking farrrrr too long to get said what they need to say. Just like this vid. 👌

better than adding 14 degrees tho.....

that's the sort of glitch that blows stuff up----Holley should not allow that too happen without a few more clicks

At least at default it takes timing out instead of adding 14 degrees. That could've been destructive.

@wingracer1614

2 жыл бұрын

I've only watched someone else messing with a holley, never done it myself so I'm no expert but from my experience with other systems, I imagine the default settings are ultra conservative so anything getting reset to default should be safe. I say should because these systems are designed to work with a wide range of different hardware and it is entirely possible that some specific combinations could default to a setting that is hazardous.

@inthegarage342

2 жыл бұрын

@@wingracer1614 Its possible I'd say

I’m sure steve gave him a crap load of …… words …,

Good thing it didn’t add 14 degrees of timing because that engine would have scattered all of that room

that is the EFI Golden Rule. DONT FUCKING TOUCH IT.....unless you are DAMN SURE you know whats gonna happen.