Kudos to Othias for not snickering once when saying Captain Horney

@heinrichzerbe

2 жыл бұрын

I came to the comment section just to see his name being mentioned.

@horny4violence

2 жыл бұрын

@@heinrichzerbe Bro, _Creamer Horney_ ? Not even smile, what a pro.

@traumajock

2 жыл бұрын

@@heinrichzerbe Me three.

@traumajock

2 жыл бұрын

I think his great-granddaughter was a sex worker in Saigon in 1968. Meso Horney.

@joshuamarvin7400

Ай бұрын

A guy named Creamer Horney working for a guy named Buffington.

US Army: We want a 10 to 12lbs trigger. Colt Engineers: Do you think the Army will notice if we put a 10 to 12kg trigger on this revolver instead?

“Oh he might have gone on living but he made one fatal slip. When he tried to stop the Moro with with the weak iron on his hip”

@schaferhundschmidt1798

2 жыл бұрын

I don't recall Marty Robbins singing that verse.....😏

@earlyriser8998

2 жыл бұрын

Chorus " Weak Iron on his Hip" Now the stranger started talkin', made it plain to folks around Was a Filipino Constable, wouldn't be too long in town He came there to take a rebel back alive or maybe dead Said it didn't matter, he was after Moro Rebels, after Moro Rebs'

My now deceased former father in law, a former WW2 Army Captain. He had what looked exactly the same as the Colt. It was unusual that it was chambered in 44 Russian, had British proof marks and what makes it stranger. He liberated in WW2 from a Sicilian police chief’s personal collection. The police chief had previously confiscated all civilian firearms by orders from the military. My FIL kept the revolver as his personal protection house gun along with the 44 Russian ammo the police chief had in it. I got to shoot it in the early 90’s after locating modern ammo from The Old Western Scrounger. Two of original cartridges were duds and one hang fire. Either my FIL or the Sicilian policeman had an empty chamber on top under the hammer. The ammo was head stamped “4R” along with some meaningless foreign letters. I pulled two of the old cartridges and as expected the charge was black powder and the pure lead bullet weighed 245grs. The bullet lube best I could tell was graphite powder in what looked like very old, dried up axle grease. We also shot a dozen hand loads I made with trimmed 44 Mag brass. I used 240gr home cast with pure lead dropped from an old Lee HP mold. Using data I found in Barnes’ Cartridges of the World, best I recall was 2.5 grs of Bullseye. The hand loads had less oomph then the factory ammo that was a foreign brand whose name I don’t recall. The revolver had a very faint turn line and other than a crack in one of the hard rubber grip. Appeared to have had little previous use and was kept well oiled. The bluing was faded, showed some holster wear at the end of the barrel but not even a speck of rust. My FIL stored it in an old very oily US 1917 holster. Best I recall the long D/A trigger pull was a bit heavy, smooth with no stacking. The S/A trigger was sweet, crisp and clean like a modern S&W. I showed it to my gunsmith and he encouraged us to avoid shooting double action. He told us it was a transitional model and the D/A mechanisms were very fragile. Then he offered my FIL first 350 eventually upping it to 500 bucks for it which he declined. I was negotiating a trade with my FIL, he wanted what he named a GI 45 (1911) or a M-1 Carbine. The closest I had at the time was an Iver Johnson M-1 Carbine. He declined wanting a genuine US military the same as he carried in the war. Unfortunately a divorce ended our relationship. If you read this far, THX for reading while I reminisced.

@levergatRapha

2 жыл бұрын

The only .44 Russian 1878DA I witnessed were spanish counterfeits from Eibar that were semi popular trough wwI to Spanish civil war, they can be found in either 44russ or 44largo (44-40wcf)... They tnd to loose timing and double action easily but were proofed for smokeless powder

@zivendine

2 жыл бұрын

@@levergatRapha If it was a Spanish copycat whomever built it did a good job. It was clearly marked Colt and the gunsmith seemed very familiar with it as he tried to buy it. Years ago I had some experience with a Spanish copy of a Smith & Wesson. It was so badly made I wouldn’t dare shoot it. According to my FIL he let his enlisted men each take one gun from the collection. Included with the cache was a German Drilling and several what he described as very fancy double barrel shotguns.

@levergatRapha

2 жыл бұрын

@@zivendine Eibar region, as with any counterfeits industry, can range frome crude useless hunk of junk ( WWI contract 8/92 S&W) to almost unremarkable copy ( "el tigre" Winchester 1892, 44-40 1873 SAAs with fake markings). I can be wrong, but I never heard about a .44 russian early model genuine colt 1878, maybe it was one of these prototypes sent to the English reseller for testing?

@flavourruling2162

2 жыл бұрын

Ooo ooo TEACHER! Can I ask a question? What’s a hangshot? Is that when the hammer strikes the pin but the gunpowder has a delay on detonation? It’s like a reverse misfire, and happens after a trigger pull?

@jehoiakimelidoronila5450

2 жыл бұрын

Oh it's alright. That gun you mentioned is weird, in some sense. 44 russian, british proof marks, liberated from sicily... & you said it looked exactly the same as colt? I think of either the schofield no.3, or the preceding model of the 1902

The greatest recurring character in any series of anything ever has returned! All hail Crozier!

@davidbrennan660

2 жыл бұрын

He too loved Blueberries.

This reminds me of the Philippine Guerilla tactic called "Amigo", which translates "friend". A friend by day, an enemy by night. Guerillas would usually mingle with the local population and would interact with the American Forces and would gain their trust, thus letting them know the plans and movements of American troops within the province. This led to American troops creating concentration camps and disallowing easy movement of civilians to give clarity as to who was really a friend from foe. Little by little, as supplies dwindled for the Philippine rebels due to the denial of movement of their contacts, guerillas would surrender eventually and most of them would be integrated into the Philippine Scouts due to their experience in tracking and unconventional fighting.

@Danheron2

Жыл бұрын

Very interesting where did you read this :)

@ravenrise320

2 ай бұрын

​@edanridge3023 I'm not sure about the American "concentration camp " angle. But the Brits DID do pretty much the same thing at the same time in the Second Boer War. They interred suspected Boer guerrilla families, friends, and even entire Boer towns into concentration camps. Then burned and looted Boer farmsteads, poisoned their wells, stole their cattle, and basicly tried their very best to strip South Africa of any supplies the Boer guerrillas could get in order to starve them into submission. They learned that the only way to destroy guerillas or insurgents was to destroy their resupply. And that resupply source was their family and friends within the civilian Boer population. Thousands of Boers died from starvation, disease, murder, and rape in the British concentration camps before the Boer guerilla forces on the outside finally gave up and turned themselves in. Within about a year of the end of the Second Boer War. The British had formerly annexed all Boer lands and property.

"How heavy do you want the trigger pull?" "Yes."

@davidbrennan660

2 жыл бұрын

All the trigger pull.....all of it.

@alexwest2573

10 ай бұрын

When you have an early 20th century version of Andre The Giant advise you on trigger pull

Talk of the heavy trigger reminds me of an episode of The Three Stooges, where they're working as defense attorneys, and they're able to prove the defendant innocent because the murder weapon, a revolver, had such a heavy trigger that the defendant couldn't possibly have fired it.

When Mae isn't smiling after firing a weapon ya got believe it's not good.

28 pound trigger pull? Bah, 28 pounds on one finger is done all the time by folks that are carrying in grocery shopping in 1 trip from the car to the house. Giggle. Another excellent episode.

@jameshealy4594

2 жыл бұрын

There are two ways to carry groceries in from the car - everything in one trip, and the wrong way.

@davidbrennan660

2 жыл бұрын

That will be one hell of a trigger guard .

@BeingFireRetardant

2 жыл бұрын

As a third floorer, this is quantifiable fact... the math checks out.

@FancyJesus666

2 жыл бұрын

The double action trigger on my Feg pa 63 is 24lbs and I hated it until I got used to it and now I kinda like it for a carry gun because it won't go off unless I MEAN it but at least the single action trigger is a nice 4 pounds

@2copy3copy4cpoy

2 жыл бұрын

agreed. NYPD could step theirs up to 30 or 35 at least.

Fun fact, the USA and the Philippines are the only countries in the world that use the bail bondsman system in which bail is posted or guaranteed by private businesses and private, sometimes freelance agents are used to track bail jumping criminals

@42willys4

2 жыл бұрын

That is a fun fact!

@ChannelCzarovski

2 жыл бұрын

that & bounty hunting

@john-paulsilke893

2 жыл бұрын

Weird. Do they eat Dog The Bounty Hunter there? (I’m kidding but seriously I work with a bunch of Filipino’s and my brother in law is one and they for the most part have eaten dog at birthday parties and school graduation).

@Joshua_N-A

Жыл бұрын

How does bounty hunting work in United States? I''m from Malaysia so I'm interested of what is a bounty hunter.

@bold810

Жыл бұрын

You know the only other Light 'n Lively fact that the Philippines and the United States have in common? Those 2 countries are the most likely places where Phillipinas are in danger of being S.A.'d. #🎉

Lol, the look on Mae's face when she's done shooting, especially compared to her normal joy of firing :P

20:05 The primers could be VERY insensitive. "It's not my fault your hammer hits like a little pansy, get over yourself already."

the 1878's large trigger guard is a prominent feature in some old school hand-painted posters of the anti-gun campaign in manila.( I saw one drawn with a barrel knotted)

@GCho733

2 жыл бұрын

Was that the one near the Ayala station by any chance?

@markknife1

2 жыл бұрын

@@GCho733 absolutely. Near the 4 way intersection into the makati Central Business District

Man, I wish there was a reproduction of this. Love loading gate double actions and this one’s xbox hueg trigger and trigger guard.

A 28 pound double action trigger.... well and we thought the 1895 Nagants could get absurd.

The fact Mae didn’t smile after the shooting segment showed the absolute dislike in that trigger pull

Great episode!... I gotta watch it first.

@TheMobster450

2 жыл бұрын

You want a gold star ?

This is the first time I've seen Mae look unhappy after a shooting session.

First of all, a Hearty Thanks to Othias, Mae, and The Crew for a wonderful Presentation! Although I haven't fired a Colt's 1878, I did have the opportunity to shoot a Colt's 1902 using Black Powder handloads. My experiences were very favorable, and I had nothing of the hard DA Trigger-pull experienced by Mae! Since your sample was refinished, I wonder if the mainspring was perhaps damaged and replaced, which might account for the very high DA pull. Although my sample received a "$10 Buffing-Wheel Re-Blue Special!", it was tight and accurate in aimed SA fire, and smooth and comfortable in DA fire. For the record, my handloads consisted of 35 grains GOEX FFg under the Ideal #454190, fired by a magnum Pistol Primer. I too would love to see a Replica "Colt's 1878 DAA" reintroduced!

As a fellow South Carolinian, (Fellow Sandlapper if you will) I appreciate you taking the time to explain the meaning of “Damn Yankee” 😂.

"In England and the Continent... single-action revolvers are looked upon as interesting relics of a former civilisation..." Now that's a quote from a former civilisation :D

@Arbiter099

2 жыл бұрын

"An elegant weapon from a more civilized age."

when you said "it's a good blue job." i laughed way harder than i should have. My mind is perpetually in the gutter.

@Ben_not_10

Жыл бұрын

What about Otus Creamer Horney

Mae's Marathon should also feature a bonus loading/shooting of the 1903 Air Service Rifle (if you still have it) for particular milestone amounts.

This peice looks like a drawing of a revolver done by a 19th century child. After said child had gotten into his father's liquor cabinet or mom's laudanum stash.

Your issue with the trigger not being straight enough to exploit the big trigger guard might be because you are holding the gun "normally," not with that tucked and bent-elbow single-handed "target-shooting" grip a lot of people used at the time. Not saying it helps much, but I find it easier to reach the bottom of the trigger when you do that and I am a small man with small hands as well.

@LibertysetsquareJack

Жыл бұрын

I think, on average, people's grip strength was better in the 19th and early 20th century than it is now, too. Because of labor saving devices and such, people's grip strength nowadays is usually pretty weak.

“Let’s adopt a .45 sidearm so we can use this surplus ammo.” “Aren’t you worried that generations of American shooters are going to believe that we adopted a .45 because of its stopping power?” “No, why?”

@zebradun7407

2 жыл бұрын

The .45 Colt was selected because this was a Cavalry weapon, designed to kill Horses for a mobility kill. Since a smaller caliber could not reliably kill a horse with a body shot. That it reliably killed the enemy with the same body shot was a bonus.

@LibertysetsquareJack

Жыл бұрын

Well there's also the Army tests that were done in the lead up to the eventual adoption of the 1911 ACP, so it wasn't only that stock of .45 Colt ammo was at hand. As Othias alluded, there was already in circulation from the Philippines campaign, the idea that a larger caliber was needed, so Taft was content to "kill two birds with one stone" with his request.

I have spent an embarrassing portion of this video giggling whenever captain horney is mentioned

being a Filipino, thanks for the very informative videos. Filipinos having small hands, is it possible that the revolver is designed with using 2 fingers? (index and middle) to address the heavy/reliable trigger to ignite the surplus ammos? BTW is it also ironic that the Philippine Police ordered the Beretta 92 with DAO in the 90s? hmmmm.....

@Dretelejr

2 жыл бұрын

That's interesting, the Philippine National Police being issued Beretta 92D models, I only knew them being issued the Beretta 92FS alongside 1911s before Glock came into the picture in the late 2000s. I don't think it's ironic because the most common pistol in service with the police and military during the 90s was the M1911 and the Philippine copies of it, we are pretty much molded to use single action pistols because of the M1911 and its lasting influence. Unless we can find a doctrine on how they used the Colt 1902, we can only guess on how they (The Phil. Constabulary men and their officers) use it. It's possible that Filipinos, if they were issued one, would use it with two fingers because the average height of Filipinos in the early 1900s is at least 5'2", Americans at around 5'6" or thereabouts.

@chooseyouhandle

2 жыл бұрын

@@Dretelejr aren't 1911s made by hand out in the boondocks?

@boymahina123

2 жыл бұрын

@@chooseyouhandle Yes, and they still are.

@JohnSmith-sb2fp

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly what i was thinking too. This has to be a two finger trigger design.

@JohnSmith-sb2fp

2 жыл бұрын

@@Dretelejr average american was 5'9". Average height went up and is now going down again as we are being flooded by invaders.

So cool that Rob of Muzzlecover fame won his "Most Dapper" of the Gundies. Well done to all.

Ho-Lee-Chit!!! - a pistol exists, with a heavier double action trigger pull than a Polish P-64! 🤯 Poor Mae! The look on her face was priceless! ☹️

Most definitely the very best historical gun videos, period!

The polite and intelligent conversation in the last part of the video makes you think how much revolvers in hand contribute to politeness of that conversation.

That´s a massive trigger pull right there! impressive to pull(!) it off. Btw, never underestimate a good bluejob.

You 'PULLED' it off quite well Mae 👍 as usual 🤠

I very much enjoy the way you and Mae discuss pros and cons of these pistols.

I always watch seldom comment I've been watching since beginning and these revolvers and semi autos from the era are almost all making a full circle with features in some way it's really fun to watch

I kept forgetting "Horney" was actually a man's name and not a joking/teasing nickname inflicted by Othias. The 1800s were weird for names, I guess.

It is probable that folks with normal sized hands were expected to shoot double action with two fingers on the trigger. Cautiously approaching the shot, slowly dragging the trigger rearward while wearing over-sized tempered lensed shooting glasses was recommended. The 1878/1902 could be called the Double-Digit Primer Piercer Double Action: DDPPDA for short.

Perfect, nothing better than new episode to listen while at work!

So there was no chance of my grandfather seeing one of these during his time stationed with the US Navy, VP-1, on Jolo Island, Phillipines in 1941. Imagine trying to shoot a Japanese soldier with one of these?

I hit like before the intro is even done. Because I know the video is gonna be good, and I know I'm gonna like it.

oh dear oh no, the indecision: Sleep and then watch this, or watch this and not have nearly enough sleep... Or have this play while I sleep, then wake up and watch it for real...

One of my favorite channels for non-covid, non-protest, non-riot, non-crazy chat about historic technology.

i cant express enough how much i love this channel. Primer is the best series on youtube and it makes my little nerd brain's neurons fire.

thank you for all the great work that you do

Thanks again to the C&R team 😘

Forty-some years ago I came close to purchasing an "Alaskan" Model .45 I espied in a Brevard, N.C antique shop. Came back a week ago later to find the shop closed as the owner had committed suicide with it, likely the last casualty inflicted by this model revolver.

Another great episode!

For my first Marriage, my soon to be was a girl from New Zealand with Scottish ancestors. So we were going to be married with ME wearing a Kilt! We went to Western Costume who is IIRC, part of Paramount Movie Studios. The Kilts were good enough from 20 feet away but a bit moth-worn for up close work. I went with a Tux. BUT. They had guns EVERYWHERE! CW MUSKETS made into floor lamps!

Contrary to popular belief, the Colt SAA 1873 was never re-issued during the Philippine war. Many US officers used their personal Colt SAA 1873 pistols rather than using the 1892 Colt or 1902 Colt. Mae complained that the Colt SAA was single action only, but single action revolvers were still very common at that time and preferred over many double action models.

The Long Gray Line representing in this video. At least four of the officers mentioned graduated from West Point and all near or at the top of their respective classes. BEAT NAVY!

@elifoust7664

2 жыл бұрын

Never forget Class of 66

Best birthday gift yet!!!

Mae's face during the firing said it all.

Another excellent episode.

Looks like Mae is trying to hold onto a Cocker spaniel puppy one handed.

Perhaps the Acting Chief of Ordnance was a reference to Charles Shaler? He had filled that role during the gap between Flagler's death and Buffington's appointment, and during Buffington's time as Chief was the head of Indianapolis Arsenal. As far as I know there was no active Acting Chief between 1899 and 1912.

Great work Sir thank you

Thank you patrons. 😘

You could try CCI #34 7.62 NATO military large rifle primers with a reduced powder load to replicate the original insensitive primer loads.

Thanks for the video.

The dedication this channel shows is amazing. Truly amazing. Please. Never quit. We need you Othais and May.

Adrenaline is an amazing thing guys. Someone running at you with a two foot stabby , slashy thing Will motivate you to pull that trigger. I have a Moro blade from this period in history and it would still easily remove an arm or head. The balance is absolute perfection.

Odus Horney. Perfection.

I will gladly donate to the Maerathon with the 1902.

Mae's disdain for the 1873 SAA as a fighting handgun is shared by no less than Jeff Cooper. As a Marine officer, he foolishly carried a personal 1873 into combat during WWII. After his first gunfight, he switched to a 1911.

12 minutes after it's up, I see it and go 'Oh hell yeah!"

A moment of calm in a world going mad....thanks guys.

This is the first time I felt bad for Mae. Great series!

Well done

Well Philippines Paper work But that Pre 1941 as such Penny to Pound it got caught up in Records Fire. That is why Papers are Missing. Thanks Tom for Weapons Lean

Yes! I missed the livestream due to dinner with family in town. I've been looking to see who won. They should add a best beard category for Othias next year.

You had mentioned earlier that this conflict was the reason the 1911 was .45 It's good to learn the development of the cartridge.

28:42 The moment you realize how bad the gun is. First (that I've seen) 'glad that's over' on Mae.

I want one of these, but sculpted a bit to look like a small pocket revolver, only big.

Nice work. 🙂

when i was growing up in the uk late 50s our comics were largely based on war stories.i remember one series about the kenyan emergency where district officers game wardens police and military all requested the reissue of the .455 webley as the replacement the enfield and webley .38 had a very weak proprietary cartridge and also civillians issued with a variety of .380 or 9mm self loaders all said against sudden attacks by maumau armed with machetes they just wouldnt knock them down.i found out later from a lady who was in kenya at the time this was true.most of the farmers etc carried large bore shotguns or high powered rifles but as personal protection wanted .45 caliber at least handguns.she said being a colonial based administration fortunately there was a lot of .455 webleys in store as theyd been in use until quite recently as due to the war like the smle rifle they were very low on the priority list to be issued enfield mk 4s or the new service revolver.

Some starting points for Mae's Movie Marathon of 1878 Double Action appearances: 1939 - Hound of the Baskervilles - carried by Basil Rathbone (Sherlock Holmes), Nigel Bruce (Watson), Richard Greene (Sir Henry Baskerville), and Morton Lowry (Stapleton). Watson and Stapleton both carry 1902 models. 1970 - Little Big Man - carried by Jeff Corey (Wild Bill Hickok) 1972 - Joe Kidd - carried by John Saxon (Luis Chama) 1983 - High Road to China - carried by Tom Selleck (Patrick O'Malley) and Bess Armstrong (Eve Tozer) 1993 - Tombstone - carried by Kurt Russell (Wyatt Earp) 2015 - The Hateful Eight - carried by Channing Tatum (Jody Domingre)

well done sir.....

"The large trigger guard is there just so you could have a large trigger" I chortled

Well, I think you should hook up with Duelist1954 and compare notes on this revolver. Excellent video as usual!

It is so strange to see Mae shoot, and *not* break into a smile.

look at that beautiful starline brass and nickel primers. worth their weight in gold in 2021

Thanks for sharing 👍

I know this is childish, but I smile or laugh whenver I hear, "Captain Horney".

@GunFunZS

2 жыл бұрын

Next guinea pig!

Had to double check "Odus Creamer Horney" wasn't a joke. It wasn't.

The colt model 1878 was made in... 1878?? Who would of thought. It's a very nice episode.

With that kind of trigger pull, it must have been a model for Rugers LRCx pistols...Mae ate her Wheaties the day she shot that.

Fair shooting, given the heavy trigger

32 minutes here, and ohhhh, yeah!

Poor guy’s name was really Odus Creamer Horney, that’s just unfortunate

@maewinchester2030

11 ай бұрын

Although you have to admit, it's a name you won't forget.

Here we witness the first and last gun Brigadier General William Crozier ever accepted into military service. Note: That was a joke. There is no need to correct my factual inaccuracies, they were intentional.

In the movie "Young Guns" with Emilio Estevez used a double action revolver, not sure the make.

I was slightly distracted when Odus Horney got introduced to the story, I was very confused when I heard "Captain Horney"

@roguechocolateer8235

2 жыл бұрын

That was my bar name in my 20s

Excellent 🙂

Straight trigger would give more leverage, but it seems like you finger would get pinched between the end of the trigger and the guard. As you pull the trigger it opens a space.

The movie Wyatt Earp in a night gun fighting Wyatt uses a colt lightning or a colt thunder.

47:20 the face of a man setting an inescapable trap 47:37 the face of a woman who is done

You guys should make a video on the enfield mk1 revolver. That is one video I have yet to see.

Great video. Thank you. I wonder if the teleprompter operator could slow the scrolling down just a bit on future videos?