I love the old 44 WCF. Great cartridge in a fantastic rifle. Modern day loads for the 44WCF are a dissapointment only offering a 200 grain bullet at mediocre velocities. However, 220 grain and 240 grain bullets work well in the 44WCF.

The best cartridge ever for me, all my old west guns and carbine are in 4440WCF, exepted one in 45LC and a conversion in 38SP.... and i have Uberti 1866 a,d 1873, Rossi rifle and carbine 92 , Saa Uberti X2, Remington 1875.

@frontierwesternheritage1356

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching. I'm a big fan of the 44-40 as well. Todd

I have a Winchester 1873 (Miroku). I was getting frustrated trying to find a load, either smokeless or BP that would shoot accurately out of the gun. Four to five inch groups at 50 yards are just flat out abysmal, even with open sights. My holy grail moment came after switching to .430 diameter, 240 gr cast lead bullets. 23.5 gr. Reloader 7 or 33gr BP (by weight) take your pick. Groups down to 2" or better. Since this video is over two years old, you will have to fill me in on your journey for the perfect load for these rifles.

@frontierwesternheritage1356

Жыл бұрын

The airlines broke my front sight off and I have a new bullet. So I'm starting over. More to come. Thanks for the data, Todd

@serverlan763

Жыл бұрын

I have the same rifle but mine is unfired. Plan to just keep it like that. I have a Uberti 66 in 44/40 which I like to shoot

awesome and great. I am impressed, it is easy to understanf for me because your accent is clear, strong like US presidents are talking, thanks and greetings from Germany....PS. I like shooting the 44-40Win.

@frontierwesternheritage1356

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Mathias, welcome to the channel. Thank you for the compliments. Todd

Great video Todd

Great video!

These old cowboy rounds have good firefight street creds. due to their use in the western frontiers of North America by lawmen, pistoleers, and homesteaders. But in modern times, these rounds are still reliable to use for self-defence if you still have a DA revolver that uses them.

@frontierwesternheritage1356

3 жыл бұрын

Very true. My great granddad was adequately armed.

I ended up settling on the 44WCF it's easier to find and not as costly as the 32-20 and 38-40 that I've owned. Actually I prefer in the 38-40 which I believe is a little more accurate and carries a little farther than the 44-40 or the 45 colt. I believe he means to say center fire instead of centra or central fire. My mom couldn't cay Wal-Mart, it always came out Walmark. Oh well.

@frontierwesternheritage1356

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Paul, Central fire is the historic term used when the cartridge came out. Thanks for watching, Todd

Glad I found your channel. I really enjoy it. I love the old cowboy guns hope you keep going with it not many people can do a good video but you do a good job of it so I hope you keep on going with it. PS I like your style a hat what kind is it?

@frontierwesternheritage1356

2 жыл бұрын

Brian, Thanks for watching. I'll keep it up as long as I have material to share. My hat is a Stetson shaped into a Gus crown. It was called a Carlsbad crease back in the period, then a Tom Horn, and now a Gus. I found a custom hatter to sew on a ribbon hatband for a traditional 1800s look. It's dirty and sweaty from use, but makes a great living history educational piece. Thanks again, Todd.

@bryanjohnson2510

2 жыл бұрын

@@frontierwesternheritage1356 thanks for letting me know I'm gonna see if I can find one. I noticed on your 1860 army video when your caps didn't go off, I noticed they were CCI caps. I had the same problem. On all my black powder pistols the Remington number 10's set really well with no issues.

I always heard it as center fire .

@frontierwesternheritage1356

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Colin, Central fire is the historic term. A lot of people comment about that. Thanks for watching, Todd

Excellent video, just what I was looking for. I've got my eye on a .44-40 SAA and don't know much about the cartridge. How easy are they to reload ? I have experience with .38 special. I read in another comment that the case is not straight walled. Does that make it more difficult ? Also, I would love to reload with BP especially since it's not as hard to buy. However, I'd have to find dies and a mold. But I love that smoke cloud.

@frontierwesternheritage1356

2 жыл бұрын

Nonoko, I like the 44-40 because it debuted with the 1873 Winchester and is an iconic caliber much like the 45 Colt. If looking at a SAA, you could go either 44-40 or 45 Colt to be historically correct. If later matching a rifle, the 44-40 is historically correct. The 44-40 has a slight bottleneck so is not a straight walled case. I don't find it nearly as tough to reload as some people say. But I do have to lube the cases for sizing. Dies aren't hard to find online and there are a lot of good bullet makers out there if you want to save casting your own for later down the road. They will send you bullets already black powder lubed. Read up on black powder cartridge loading. It's a little different but manageable. I do it for the fun and historic appeal, not convenience. And the guns clean up easily. You just have to do it sooner than later before they rust. That's a bigger issue if you live in a humid climate. Thanks for the comments, Todd

@blueduck9409

Жыл бұрын

The 44-40 is not difficult to load at all. Just be more careful during the reloading process, as the case mouth is pretty thin and it will buckle easily. Pay close attention and dont get into a hurry with it. You want a strong crimp, but be careful not to over crimp, as that will also buckle the case.

Colt called the 44-40 a Colt frontier six shooter I got to shoot a friends the other day that was made in 1894 those can only be loaded with black powder loads and that was lots of fun

@frontierwesternheritage1356

Жыл бұрын

Fun. I'm jealous. Todd

Why no 1892??

Lordy how long is that barrel on '73 rifle? Never seen one quite so long in that model before. I have a Rossi 92 .44-40 and just laid away an Uberti Frontier revolver, finally, to keep Mr. long gun happy!

@frontierwesternheritage1356

3 жыл бұрын

It's the Cimarron Long Range 1873 with a 30 inch barrel. Would have been a special order back in the day. Thanks for watching.

@scottscheuerman6170

3 жыл бұрын

If the frontier revolver comes from Cimarron it will be a Pietta revolver

@blueduck9409

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking that was a long barrel on that rifle. I thought a 24 inch barrel was long on the 73 Winchester, wow!

@chaecoco2

Жыл бұрын

@@frontierwesternheritage1356 A friend of mine has that rifle in the charcoal blue. Absolutely beautiful rifle.

I had to reload all my .44-40 bullets… my brass is getting worn out

What's the difference between 44 special and 44-40? Which is more powerful. Are they interchangeable

@frontierwesternheritage1356

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the question. Cartridges are constantly evolving and it's difficult to keep up even today. The 44-40 and 44 special are not interchangeable. The 44-40 was offered in 1873 as a black powder cartridge (the only powder at the time) and has a slight bottle neck. The 44 Special has a straight walled case and is the result of attempts to convert the very accurate 44 Russian from black powder to a smokeless cartridge. The results weren't great until the case was elongated and the 44 Special was born. The case was elongated again to create the 44 Magnum. The 44 Special is a comfortable cartridge to practice with in a 44 Magnum revolver. Meanwhile, the 44-40 made the transition to smokeless powder without the case alternations.

@blueduck9409

Жыл бұрын

Both the 44 special and 44-40 are good rounds. Factory loads for both are about the same power. Hand loading is a different animal. For black powder loads the 44-40 is much stronger because it has a bigger case capacity. They both do well with smokeless powder too, but those loads will take you down a rabbit hole. I find that any load data for standard 44 special also works in the 44-40.

What is this central you speak of? Winchester Center Fire?

@frontierwesternheritage1356

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Joe, it's the original historical term used. Central Fire is printed on most of the ammo boxes from the Old West era to distinguish from rimfire rounds of the time. We have since transitioned to saying center fire. Thanks for watching. Todd

Amateur question but back in the day the caliber was nominal a .44 was actually a .454 or .45. so why is loading a .45 colt with 40 grains of black powder not the same thing?

@frontierwesternheritage1356

Жыл бұрын

Good question. You might be confusing the 44 Colt with the 44-40. The 44-40 has a bullet diameter of .427 to .429 with a 217 grain bullet. The heaviest bullet for the 44-40 is 225 grains. The case has a slight bottleneck to it, so it will hold 40 grains of powder. The .45 Colt is loaded with a .454 bullet of 255 grains. It also holds 40 grains of black powder. Bullet diameter and mass is the difference. I'm going to compare the two side by side and test energy. I think it will be interesting to see which wins - heavier bullet or higher velocity. Thanks for watching. Todd

@blueduck9409

Жыл бұрын

Cap and ball 44 revolvers generally had .454 ish diameter barrels, and when the 45 colt came out they initally kept the same barrel diameter. Many of the old cartridges were misleading because the 38-40 was really a 40 caliber bullet, the 44-40 was somewhere between .425 to .427 caliber bullet and the .38 special had a .358 caliber bullet. It can be confusing.

.44-40 & 44 magnum are interchangeable?

@frontierwesternheritage1356

Жыл бұрын

Atharva, Thanks for watching. No, the two are not interchangeable. The 44 mag is a straight walled case and requires a very strong gun to handle the power. The 44-40 has a slight bottleneck case that began as a black powder cartridge in 1873. There are smokeless loads now for the 44-40, but not near the power of the 44 magnum. Thanks for the question. Todd

@blueduck9409

Жыл бұрын

No, they are NOT interchangeable.

The grips on your revolver there looks like they were made by Buffalo Brothers

@frontierwesternheritage1356

3 жыл бұрын

Yep. Nice but a little plastic looking.

@scottscheuerman6170

3 жыл бұрын

@@frontierwesternheritage1356 I got a set of those grips there not to bad I like eagles on them

@frontierwesternheritage1356

3 жыл бұрын

@@scottscheuerman6170 Agreed. The Liberty Eagles spoke to me too.

I disagree. Volume is the most important consideration with black powder. I don't want an air gap between the bullet and the powder so I fill it until the bullet just touches the powder when seated. Hopefully the viewer will do their own research. I'm not anyone's coach.

@frontierwesternheritage1356

2 жыл бұрын

You are correct in that your lowest powder charge still needs to fill all the space in the case and touch the base of the bullet. Higher charges require greater compression to end up at the same place in the case. I never use a weighed charge that doesn't reach the bullet base. Weighing simply provides consistency from cartridge to cartridge.

Pop gun accuracy.

The 44-40 was never loaded with 40 grs. of powder, Winchester was misleading customers the 40 grains is based on how much water the case ( balloon head ) would hold not powder..

@frontierwesternheritage1356

Жыл бұрын

I hadn't heard this. Thanks for the info. Todd

@usualsuspect5173

Жыл бұрын

@@frontierwesternheritage1356 false advertising laws didn't exist until 1914 in the US

@blueduck9409

Жыл бұрын

Baloon head cases did in fact hold 40 grains of black powder with a 200 grain bullet. They switched to solid head cases and that reduced the amount of powder the case held.

@usualsuspect5173

Жыл бұрын

​@@blueduck9409 I have balloon head cases, you can't put 40 grs. Of powder in them and still seat a bullet

The 44-40 is not a true 44 caliber.... It is actually a 43 caliber! Bullet's measure .427- .430 dia.

@frontierwesternheritage1356

2 жыл бұрын

That's correct. Kind of like a 38 special and .357. Ammunition nomenclature was and is a loose practice.

@blueduck9409

Жыл бұрын

Most all of the .44 caliber bullets are!

This guy keeps saying "The .44 central fire". Does this guy know anything about the cartridge at all? It is a "Winchester .44 CENTER fire" not central fire.

@frontierwesternheritage1356

10 ай бұрын

Thanks very watching Harry. Central fire is the historic title. I use it when doing a history of the cartridge. Todd

@harrywernsman9045

10 ай бұрын

Well that answers my question. Clearly, you not only know something about this cartridge, but apparently a whole lot more than I do. Sir, I stand in awe of your knowledge and proper use of the historic title of the cartridge. @@frontierwesternheritage1356

@geobus3307

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for maintaining the historically correct nomenclature line in the face of the considerable incoming fire, Todd. I, too, incorrectly assumed the original term was "center fire". In the FWIW department, to my ear the word "central" simply sounds more in keeping with what I believe to have been the more formal advertising vernacular of the 1870s. As opposed to "center", the term "central" strikes me (pun intended") as a more likely juxtaposition to have to been selected to make the distinction with the existing copper rimfire cartridge ignition system. It's just a late night thought upon discovering your thoughtful dissertation on the now somewhat obscure 44-40. Keep plugging away, Todd.😂

@harrywernsman9045

7 ай бұрын

@@geobus3307 I 100% agree.