He was so gracious and patient. I was hoping to hear more about his book.

@TheMeaningCode

3 жыл бұрын

On a number of other channels, he has fully discussed his book.

What a beautiful and engaging conversation. I have no choice but to get the book now.

@TheMeaningCode

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much, Aiden!

I thought your book was wonderful Mark. I learned so much about the hierarchical systems and physical functions of the brain than I could ever have thought possible from within those pages. More importantly, ‘knowing’ how opaque I am, you’ve helped me to understand why. You seem like an amazing clinician. One who’s actually interested in the person who resides within this amazing organ we call the brain. What it’s like to BE me, driven by my needs. Thank you! Marks’ attempt to draw attention away from the already much discussed cognitive aspects (200 million years old), and to get us to concentrate and understand the more neglected source of our consciousness, “The Hidden Spring”, was so refreshing. A structure buried much deeper, and so much older in our brain system, (500 million years old). Anyone recalling a Lobster yet!? And as Mark said, don’t be put off by chapters 7and 9. They’re SO relevant to all the discussions for anyone interested in Karens’ ongoing conversations with Glen. They’re thoroughly and clearly explained in this wonderful book. Lovely conversation Karen, thank you.

"Doing work that helps my brother." Yes.

Excellent conversation. Thank you both for taking the time.

A fellow South African! ❤

What a fantastic conversation Karen and Mark. A very thought provoking dialogue between the two you. I hope there will be a Part 2 after Mark has read Saving the Appearances. 😉

I think Dr. Solms' impressive hydroencephalitic girl case mostly shows how adaptive our brains (and bodies in general) are, not that consciousness is seated where it seems to reside in that girl. But yes it is interesting what the most rudamentary presentation is (with affect), if the resources are absolutely minimal in a body, for development.

I encourage everyone to read the notes as there are many good links in there to the topics covered by Mark.

@joanbuffard9833

2 жыл бұрын

Where are the notes please?

@TheMeaningCode

2 жыл бұрын

@@joanbuffard9833 if you click the little divot just to the right of the title, all the show notes will come up in the description section. Scroll through and there are many links.

@joanbuffard9833

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheMeaningCode many thanks. Thank you so much. Brilliant

Some are asking for a book list. In this video, we mentioned.The Master and His Emissary by Iain McGilchrist and Maps of Meaning by Jordan B Peterson as well as a book by Oliver Sacks

This is great. I'm not finished with this yet but it implies that emotional self-knowledge will bring greater wisdom, even outside of emergency situations.

@TheMeaningCode

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting thought. Jordan Peterson is adamant that EQ isn’t a thing.

@MourningTalkShow

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheMeaningCode I'd have to hear more about that. I'm not claiming to be an expert. But it does seem to me that emotions are given an unfair, second-class position in out mental life. Always accused of deceiving us and making us less rational. For some it is just a given. But there must be better and worse ways to use emotions in our decision making. A balance of logic and emotion is obviously best, but as abstracting creatures, it's hard to not separate emotional intelligence out as a way to think about our relationship to our emotions. I would love to hear more about emotional intelligence not existing. That's part of Peterson's thoughts I either haven't heard or have forgotten.

@TheMeaningCode

2 жыл бұрын

@@MourningTalkShow He doesn't say that emotions don't enter into our decision making. He's just saying it is not a measurable quotient.

@MourningTalkShow

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheMeaningCode Now we get to one of many gaps in my knowledge. If EQ doesn't exist would that mean that emotional intelligence doesn't exist, or does it mean it can't be measured? I'm truly not arguing about it.

@MourningTalkShow

2 жыл бұрын

This could be that the reason some people get deep into psychology and then end up in spirituality. Measurability is a crucial element of science, but spirituality can't utilize it as much since it acknowledges reality beyond current measurements. I think a psychologist will reach a wall and have to choose if they want to move into the more subjective realm. Maybe?

Oliver Sachs was/is such a gift. He pulled us through the window to read and understand our patient ... not give the patient a label to file

Here from Jung To Live By!

@M109_KAWEST

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah c'mon fo fuck sake, JTLB !

Can someone write a list of the books mentioned in the video please

Heidegger's master work was Being And Time or being is the most fundamental feeling from which all emotional feelings or affects arise. This can apply to any biological being or Nagel's What It's Like. Time or sense of time and "what is out there" is the highest function of objective sense.

Terpsichore will love this one!

@Terpsichore1

3 жыл бұрын

Oh I did indeed! At least you turned up for this one eh? Although you won’t ‘see’ the relevance cos you keep bunking off the none theological modules!

@Terpsichore1

3 жыл бұрын

@anselman No response? I want to play!😜

@anselman3156

3 жыл бұрын

@@Terpsichore1 Apologies for delay. I've been preoccupied with a few things, not least a few theological/philosophical exchanges in PVK land on a couple of his recent convos. Actually probly better called "spats", fights in the skool playground! Just a way for us kidz to practice debate and diplomacy, having skuffles and shaking hands, having stood your ground. Also, with an eye to the audience that gather to watch (especially the cute Bike shed girlz! Who knew religion coud be this much fun! You still beat me on the old siantifik stuff, wiv yiur fizziks n' stuff. I never woz no good wiv all that. At least we can help each other wiv the homework, 'though I've been marked down for misspelling some of them big words you told me. There's a pack of fruit gums in it if you write them down for me to copy next time. Nav to go now, some boy'z just claimed me for a fite under the tree at the skool gate, coz I said something about evolooshan he didn't like. You can come an cheer me on if you like!

@Terpsichore1

3 жыл бұрын

@@anselman3156 Fighting? FIGHTING? Oh youz boys! Right! - 10 revolutions of the Blue Pears - one ablution - 7 reverse revolutions of the Blue Pears - one ablution - and repeat 5 times!

@anselman3156

3 жыл бұрын

@@Terpsichore1 Now I've GOT to get a tablet. Top of ra morra's shopping list!

Interesting and very fruitful conversation. Ehm, but how is the dog?

@TheMeaningCode

3 жыл бұрын

The vet scolded us for putting broth into the water to tempt her to drink. He said eventually she will have to drink if she gets thirsty enough. We are still in the process :-) but she is perfectly healthy according to the vet. She’s a lovely dog.

@Terpsichore1

3 жыл бұрын

Hehehehe! Good point Rudi!

@TheMeaningCode

3 жыл бұрын

By the way, Now, Junebug is drinking water normally. Took about two months.

@Terpsichore1

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheMeaningCode So glad to hear it!

@rudivandoornegat2371

3 жыл бұрын

Good to hear that.

When I train horses I consciously apply the minimum amount of pressure to the horse to place it into a feeling oriented state (fight or flight) and maintain the pressure until the horse acts in a way that is acceptable, and then I release the pressure. Repeated over a relatively short period of time this will condition the horse to know what I expect of it in that particular situation. Its pretty obvious to me that many forces in our culture are doing this to us constantly. Dr Solms, what I would love to explore is whether or not our subconscious mind trains our conscious mind using similar methods. Has there been any research related to this?

@joanbuffard9833

2 жыл бұрын

Acupressure ? Resets the body and mind. What do you think? This is one amazing doctor

@Brad-RB

2 жыл бұрын

@@joanbuffard9833 In my comment above, I am referring to psychological pressure using a combination of body language and physical contact. The timing and rhythm of the interaction are also very important. There could certainly be some overlap with acupressure but I am not very familiar with it.

@joanbuffard9833

2 жыл бұрын

@@Brad-RB your comments are fascinating. Thankyou. Opening for so much research. I have a colleague who 'heals with horses' with stunning results. I, sadly, know nothing about horses, but I watch her horses focus on the patient, take gentle control and 'explains' to the patient via my colleague's interpretation. Stunning creatures. I work with non verbal children who are autistic. I work via telepathy often. I don't admit to observers, but the child responds to me Oliver Sachs would have enjoyed. I am an old lady now, but all this work is marvellous. I work with acupressure on ptsd. Children with autism don't generally like to be touched. Wonderful life

Wonderful meeting. So far, I am seeing the reason why I write at all. To seek Being itself. For example, contemplating Being comes at the real cost of doing Being without thinking; and this transaction may be justified as a win-win, if, and only if, there is something to Being itself, which can be meaningfully negotiated and traded over, in the absence of meaningful action, i.e., intelligible signs and unironic communication, ever since high school, and even before, I preferred, in deliberate choices, the company of the departed (authors) and non-local (figments and functions and fictions of my mind -- or the mind since it does not revolve around the time of day, but which plots its musings in the sequences of self-discovery, beyond the physical correlates of conscious awareness, the limitations of language, and sincere emotions, and all the rest of the accidents of phenomenal happenings) places.

@TheMeaningCode

3 жыл бұрын

A quote from Solms' book: "In the absence of precision, prediction errors will fail to induce any perceptual synthesis or motivated behavior." I take that to mean that action is necessary in order to discern the truth of a thing. I also wrote down a quote but neglected to add the attribution - maybe Dorothy Sayers, maybe G. K. Chesterton: "Except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved. Acting upon your beliefs is what brings them out of the unknown into the known. The Truth is necessary to create that which is good. This is a law of the breaking eggs sort, not the tophat wearing sort."

@Terpsichore1

3 жыл бұрын

Yes indeed Matt. Seeking and foraging beyond the unconscious physical needs. My personal investigations have populated ME with a truly magical world, dead writers included. I’m thoroughly enchanted. If only I could become enchanting?

@TheMeaningCode

3 жыл бұрын

@@Terpsichore1 In the parlance of George W. Bush, you “misunderestimate” yourself.

@Terpsichore1

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheMeaningCode Hehe!

I'm an orange farmer. I'm just trying to spread awareness of how damaging packs of feral dogs can be to orange orchards. The dogs literally go wild for oranges - it's absolute carnage.

@TheMeaningCode

3 жыл бұрын

Oh no! I hope I haven’t started a trend! The vet blasted us yesterday for putting anything at all into her water. He said she would eventually drink or die and he thought she would she would choose drinking.

i wonder what dr. Solms thinks of NDE research by people like Dr, Bruce Greyson, Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry and Neurobehavioral Sciences at the University of Virginia?

@TheMeaningCode

3 жыл бұрын

Do you have a good link you’d like me to look at?

Interesting chap. I have a couple of nuts and bolts left over. Does Mark have room for strong emergence? What are we saying exists other than mechanics?

@Terpsichore1

3 жыл бұрын

I’m almost certain he’ll have views on that don’t ya think?

@maudeeb

3 жыл бұрын

​@@Terpsichore1 you'd think

@Terpsichore1

3 жыл бұрын

@@maudeeb Most definitely. But his book wasn’t about that. So perhaps Karen could have him back at some point to pick his ‘brains’?

@maudeeb

3 жыл бұрын

@@Terpsichore1 What do you think his answers would be? I'd guess a reluctant "no" to strong emergence (way too metaphysical), but the second question gets tricky as you realise your weak emergent epiphenomena needs substantiating. What's the point of any emergent 'stuff' without influence.

@Terpsichore1

3 жыл бұрын

@@maudeeb He’s (very unusually) an interdisciplinary neuropsychoanalysist. With his particular deep knowledge of the hierarchical physical systems of the brain, the subsequent hierarchies of the cognitive systems of the brain - PLUS a lifetime of studying the nature of “what it’s like to BE (me, you, them)”, I’d guess he’d answer in relation to our minds, “strong emergence appears to be so”. How different it is to BE me/you? We drew different conclusions hehe! This book is very relevant to Karens conversations with Glen which I think you’re following.

I am left with the question - Do our imagination and our emotions, appetites, feelings and our desires, sometimes, without us even knowing it, bypass any filtering process that our minds may or may not have so that there is no opportunity to reason or think clearly (choose whether to even acknowledge them before considering them) about the affects or implications of exposure to certain experiences, images and information ? If I heard Mark correctly, feelings may be a channel or route to do so ?

@TheMeaningCode

3 жыл бұрын

Here’s a lecture where he lays out the entire premise of the book. kzread.info/dash/bejne/daGpu9Snf7nTls4.html

@patrickwagner2978

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheMeaningCode Apologies Karen, I did read your notes, and thanks for the pointer. After watching his Royal Institutions lecture what I found particularly interesting at 58:38, his statments “consciousness has quality because of homeostasis …so consciousness in its basic form is inherently valuative and its inherently qualitative and it has function - survival".

@Terpsichore1

3 жыл бұрын

I think the answer is yes. So much is ‘unconscious’. Those basic functions go on in the background all the time, mostly unnoticed by the higher levels of our cognition.

@patrickwagner2978

3 жыл бұрын

@@Terpsichore1 Thanks. I have just watched Mark's Royal Institutions lecture which Karen pointed me at. I was aware of the fact that there is more to the unconscious than the conscious I was interested more in whether Mark was confirming that "sublminal messaging" actually worked, and that unconscious exposure to certain experiences, images and information can bypass our opportunity to reason or think clearly and influence or manipulate our imagination and our emotions, appetites, feelings and our desires, sometimes, without us even knowing it, which he was. In the 1950s it was claimed that Coca-Cola had used “subliminal advertising” in movie theatres to drive sales of sodas and popcorn at concession stands. The study claimed that by splicing single frames of visual messages like “Buy Coca-Cola” and “Buy popcorn” at intervals and too quickly for the human eye to acknowledge, into a movie reel, sales of those products had increased by 57% and 18%, respectively.

@Terpsichore1

3 жыл бұрын

@@patrickwagner2978 I’d not dare answer for Mark, but I’m almost certain he would say yes. In fact I think he’s addressed this in one of his lectures, or probably many. As I said in my initial comment to this conversation - ‘Knowing’ how opaque ‘I am’, this book helped me to understand why. We really don’t have a clue do we? :). One can be manipulated is so many ways eh?