Very informative video and clearly explained. Thanks for the effort. 👍

@LockyourHubs4WDing

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks mate!

When I was younger in army cadets, we tirfor'd a 105 mm howitzer up a very steep incline while one of the army blokes told us a story about how a section once did the same thing in ww2 while running from the enemy. All hail the electric winch.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

5 жыл бұрын

They certainly give you a workout!

@ridgerunner106

4 жыл бұрын

I broke a sweat when I read the title.

I live in America in the midwest and we use Hi Lift Jacks for all kinds of things. Many of us leave the chains on them and switch for jacking. We also use hardened agricultural pins instead of bolts. It does take longer possibly but you were gaining ground faster with the Hi Lift. The Hi Lift can push or pull. Clamp or seperate. The winch only winches.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

Definelty the more universal of the two.

@desertdan100

4 жыл бұрын

@@LockyourHubs4WDing I actually built and welded up my own bumper for jeep ZJ. I junked the foam and plastic one. I built it out of a crane jib extension. It is rectangular 2x5 inch. I made it so that I could stick the nose of the hi Lift in the ends and throw a hardened pin through to lock it in place. It works like a leveling leg . The jeep won't fall off of the jack or move. It also makes a good trail tool. I used it to help break beads and fix tires or bend stuff on the trail.

@desertdan100

4 жыл бұрын

it's on the rear with a 2'' insert tube welded through it for towing.

"using a hand winch will turn you into a great 4-wheel driver... because you won't want to use a hand winch." XD XD XD

@LockyourHubs4WDing

5 ай бұрын

Exactly!

Great video. Can vouch for the high lift as a winch, having used mine as one. 4ft at a time is slow, but does work. Not that I would recommend this (as it is very dangerous), however I have also lifted a 4WD to the top of a high lift jack and then pushed the 4WD sideways off the jack to get it out of a hole. Keep on with these videos. They're great to watch. :-)

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it! The Hi-Lift will certainly keep you on your toes!

@teddekker3383

4 жыл бұрын

@@LockyourHubs4WDing LOL :-)

That was a good test, I enjoyed that Well done.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks mate!

Bro that's wild. I had no idea I could use a jackall to get unstuck.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

Жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it!

Great work on your video :-) Thanks for that, it's good to see the pros & cons of both recovery methods :-) Cheers - Ted

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it! I still only bring the Hi-Lift as space is an issue for me.

@teddekker3383

4 жыл бұрын

@@LockyourHubs4WDing Oh Yeah !! I know what you mean ... in the old FJ45 Troopy there were no worries with both, however we now have a 120 Prado Landcruiser (plastic 4WD LOL) and space & weight are an issue. We're modifying our caravan & Prado to go off as Nomads again and may have to leave the HiLift in storage :-( ... sadly. We think the Tirfor (tugger) will be more useful. Thanks - stay Well & Safe .. see you on the tracks one day & we'll have a beer :-) Ted & Rosie

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

Cheers. And have fun out there in the Prado!

@teddekker3383

4 жыл бұрын

@@LockyourHubs4WDing We call her " lil'Elly " she's very comfortable & doesn't leak when it's raining LOL Another boon is 4WD is selected inside, no need to go out to lock the hubs in the mud again ha hah ... the wife's happier LOL :-)

Its clear, the Hi-Lift is the winner ! The other thing cannot jack up a vehicle ! Neither can a Come-Along, If a bloak does not carry along a Hi-Lift, he will need it ! ..... Thanks for the rigging....

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

The Hi-Lift is definitely my first choice!

Nice video and nice shooting location. I made a similar video last year but I like how you added the load cell component. What would be interesting is the handle on the Tirfor has two settings. When you measured the 30kg handle force it was at full extension which can be awkward when winching with that handle length. I'd like to know what force would you get with the handle non extended? This would be closer to the handle length of the hi lift jack... it would be interesting to see which one would exert more force for the same handle length. Cheers.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

I've always used the handle extended! We demonstrate its use (We're both instructors) and never considered not extending the handle.

I watched my cousin make his old deck square using a hi lift jack to pull it back into shape.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

They are like a Swiss army knife!

@flybiffo1648

2 ай бұрын

@@LockyourHubs4WDing that's just the issue I have with a new deck Im building

thanks for the effort man!! and keep it up i love your channel

@LockyourHubs4WDing

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks mate!

The Lift Mate is the way to go. Improves the functionality of the Hi Lift.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

We really like the lift mate, it allows you to firstly not have to lift through the suspension travel, and secondly to lift cars with plastic bumpers. The only issue, is the hooks don't work on all the wheels I've tried.

Well, I have both a Tirfor and a Hilift. And a chainsaw. Always made it home....

@LockyourHubs4WDing

2 жыл бұрын

Can't go wrong with that combination!

Great video, Thank you!

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Great video. Up until this point in time I’ve only ever carried my hi lift when towing my trailer or doing a hard trip for bead issues. Just wondering where did you get the chains for the hi lift?

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

That's the Hi-Lift "Off Road Kit" though has been modified. It's now running 8mm chain and safety grab hooks as opposed to the standard 3/8 chain. Primarily for weight savings.

You have my LIKE I have no idea that you can use Hi-Lift Jack for that thank you !!!

@LockyourHubs4WDing

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it!

Nice vid for people. I still dont have a winch installed, usually toss in a 3 ton come a long and some rigging straps when I go out. I did use it once, that wasnt fun, but a hour or so later in the rain and we managed to keep a friends rig from sliding off an embankment.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

Hand winching is usually all the experience you need to buy a powered winch!

Same concept of the good old bumper jack that all cars and trucks came with back in the days

@LockyourHubs4WDing

3 жыл бұрын

Very similar.

Great video.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

I like your videos. Thank you for making them. I tend to agree that the HiLift is a better all-around solution. I don't think I want to be taking up weight/space on the hand winch solution for the single use device like that. I'll stick with a Hilift. Might as well buy an electric winch if you are going that route.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

5 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it, I still think the tirfor makes a better hand winch. But I usually have four people in the car so have to use as many multi use tools as possible. The hi-lift replaces quite a few single use devices and that's why it gets my vote.

@ridgerunner106

4 жыл бұрын

By the time you load the pile of chains to use the hi lift, you can tote two hand winches.

Putting a log or spare tire under the connection above the top of the High Lift will get the jack up out of the dirt so you are not digging a hole with the jack and wasting energy doing that. If things are really sketchy, your alone and loosing the vehicle would be catastrophic, keep the transfer chain attached and keep moving it along with progress as a back up. It is rare but I have seen chain hooks pop off. One thing you did not cover is the initial cost of each option, in which the Hi-lift wins hands down. well made video, love your comment "if you didn't like it hit thumbs down TWICE" ; )

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the tips!

Thanks for sharing.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

2 жыл бұрын

You're welcome!

@LockyourHubs4WDing

2 жыл бұрын

You're welcome!

Good video but I can't see why you needed a double line pull with the tirfor. I have pulled a similar load up a bigger hill with the tiny Jockey winch hoist which is a baby Tirfor. The full size Tirfor is far more powerful. I have pulled a stuck 4x4 out of a bog hung up on a tree stump and still managed with the single pull.

making a longer 2 piece hilift handle would be beneficial too

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

:) kzread.info/dash/bejne/mIeco8WjpduupLw.html

Thanks

@LockyourHubs4WDing

11 ай бұрын

You're welcome!

Where did you get your bumber...I have a 97 T100 3.4l 4x4 extracab, and need that bumber. Front and back. Help?

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

The front bullbar is an ARB.

@jamoss2007

4 жыл бұрын

Holy molè..so where did you get your $$ haha, ARB way out of budget for me. Help? Haha🤙

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

@@jamoss2007 haha!

When using the pulley block on the Tirfor rig , you said that the load was halved. In fact the load is the same but the work necessary to move the load is halved because of the mechanical advantage. Regards Nick

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

With respect to the load the tirfor sees, it will be a little over half, taking into account the parasitic frictional losses of the pulley block.

7:58-- "back off shackle pin 1/2 turn"? I'll take exception to that. Snug them up so they're less likely to walk out. Good comparison of the two systems.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

Жыл бұрын

It stops them binding, that way you don't have to use tools to disconnect after it's been under tension.

@PATCsawyer

Жыл бұрын

@@LockyourHubs4WDing If tight, I just knock the back of the pin with the winch handle or any convenient rock. That always loosens them up.

Electric winch with a Hi-Lift as a back-up or for a secondary pull when you are stuck in a real PICKLE.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds like a plan!

You did an excellent comparison. Don't listen to the nay sayers, you press onward. Hand winch reaches 65' or do? (I have one, but don't tell anybody). So, it will take four 20' chains to use a hi lift for that length. 3+1, or really 4+1, one to hold while it is reset. You can carry two hand winches instead of the pile of chain. I carry the jack, winch, strap (both require that), chain for quick pull of or by another vehicle. I don't worry about the weight, I worry about getting home. Two shovels, axe, and saw are super good to have too. I carry two shovels in case someone stops to help or I stop to help someone, that's two people. This was an excellent watch. Maybe add to title or tags, Tirfor, griphoist, grip puller, you'll get a lot more views. From Arkansas, I'm signing out.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the kind words, I'll add to the tags!

@ridgerunner106

4 жыл бұрын

@@LockyourHubs4WDing wire rope puller, trying to remember different terms I have heard them called.

Thanks for the great video! I have a question. Why don't you reduce the length of the standing chain? It seems like you would want it to be as short as possible. Is there an advantage to the added length?

@LockyourHubs4WDing

Жыл бұрын

The standing chain needs to be long enough to "leap frog" the working chain in order to take the load.

@everythingnerd7168

Жыл бұрын

@@LockyourHubs4WDing Wouldn't you still be able to do this if it was half the length and then loose less of your progress?

@everythingnerd7168

Жыл бұрын

Okay. I’ve replayed it a few times and it looks like you don’t loose that much and really do need that much length. Thanks for the fast response!

@LockyourHubs4WDing

Жыл бұрын

No worries!

I choose the hi lift. It has more uses

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

I like to call them the Leatherman of off road recovery!

if the car is a manual leave it in a high gear.. if the line breaks it wont take off down hill in such a hurry.. youll hardley notice it on the winch

@LockyourHubs4WDing

3 жыл бұрын

I've never thought of that, that might be worth testing!

It looked like you were leaving too much slack at 10:27 and 13:43. Was that because the next link would have been too tight?

@LockyourHubs4WDing

Жыл бұрын

Exactly.

@ProctorSilex

Жыл бұрын

@@LockyourHubs4WDing That's disappointing. I just learned how to set mine up for winching. Still better than carrying multiple large tools. Thanks.

so one is 300 usd and one is like 3400 USD? how about a winch in the front for 1200 USD?

@LockyourHubs4WDing

Ай бұрын

The original tirfor has certainly risen in price since video has been published!

why you know put pin in base plate when take off ski

@LockyourHubs4WDing

2 жыл бұрын

So I don't loose it!

If I'm comparing the correct items there is quite a price difference between the two tools.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

3 жыл бұрын

Depends on the market you're in. Once you count up the acessories you need for both there comparable here. But that's not why I chose the two. They were chosen because that what I see as hand winching options in the back of 4WDs out on the tracks.

It's clear that the Tifor won this challenge, but the outcome was conflated with other factors. If the outcome had been conflated with a different set of factors, such as safely pulling down trees or branches, pulling out heavy tree trunks, or pulling tree trunks onto a trailer the Tirfor would have won. Also, with a little ingenuity and perhaps some additional equipment the Tirfor could do anything the high lift jack could do. We know how long it took to pull the vehicle out using the Tirfor, but we're never told how long it took using the high lift jack (if indeed the task was ever finished). Other advantages of the Tirfor not mentioned were weight and portability. Try carrying a high lift jack and 25 metres of chain any distance.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

3 жыл бұрын

I agree with some points. Though the test was done in consideration of what a recreational 4WDer might need. For winching alone, the tirfor if the superior tool, no doubt. Though for a recreational 4WDer's application, the tirfor is limited in application. With a Hi-Lift, you can break a tyre bead, jack up a vehicle and even hand winch, where the tirfor is essentially limited to winching.

@sailingoctopus1

3 жыл бұрын

@@LockyourHubs4WDing Fair comment

You should measure the results with the same lenght of the handle in both solutions. I've did my own tests and the outcome is nearly the same.

Thanks for this video, I was wondering exactly, "Tirfor or hi-lift" - it seems the hi-lift has "more/or near equivalent" mechanical advantage, use a cheater "pipe" on the hi-lift handle and 30kg of effort would give ~1300kg. (should use equivalent length handles to compare) - tirfor wins on long pulls (no resetting the system every metre-or-so) and the ease with which a block can be used with a wire rope - not so easy with a chain. I always chuckle at the saying: "Back off half a turn". Aren't Shackles supposed to be done up tight? ?they are not meant to be able to be "hand undone" ("Safety, Number 1" - vibrate loose, shear the pin due to the shoulder not being fully engaged (ok that one is an extreme case scenario) ) - granted (it appears) you are using a shackle rated at a much higher load than it will experience in this "job". Yes it is a PITA needing a podger or shifter to undo when on the track.... People take the "finger tight", or "back off halfa" method and use it on trailer chains etc, then wonder why it vibrated loose... (then again in "rigging use" shackles should be "seized" -chemically or mechanically (NB, not crossthreaded and galled)..) Another Question, would you ever consider belaying a winching operation in case of failure of the single-point-of-failure system commonly used??

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

In situations where prolonged use of a shackle is required, probably "mousing" of the shackle pin would be a good idea, I'm not sure if backing off the shackle half a turn would affect the WLL or not. I know belaying lines are commonly used where you're hanging a human life off of a rope, but even where overhead lifting is common, such as tower cranes, a back up device isn't used.

@kadmow

4 жыл бұрын

@@LockyourHubs4WDing . Thanks.. Backing off the shackle in theory reduces WWL. Rigging is generally done by people with expertise in the field. Industrial and comnercial lifting is planned and executed "to plan" -very bad things happen when plans are deviated (tower crane collapse anyone ? ) 4x4 winching is done by people who get stuck. Much easier to overload gear to failure in the 4x4 setting. Most injuries/fatalities in 4x4 winching would be avoided by use of a few simple safety measures. Gear "Should" never fail.. I know ideal world -In the real world failed gear usually means misuse. thanks again...

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

@@kadmow no worries, I understand the reservation, I'm a ticketed rigger myself. You need to watch theory vs actual as well, as they say "believe none of what you hear and half of what you see!" For instance snatch strap dampner or similar are recommended under the Australian Standard. Our testing has proven they are near worthless.

@kadmow

4 жыл бұрын

@@LockyourHubs4WDing . Totally agree. I'm a Mech Eng. Work out the theory and double the strength for the real world THEN apply the safety/d!ckhead factor. Dampeners. Especially as typically used are near worthless. They need to be weighted AND lashed/siezed to the rope (esp wire rope -to act as a mass damper) to stop the rope just shooting through the loops (probably the damper also needs to be anchored to act as a redirect when the rope breaks). A slack snubber line on the rope would absorb more recoil. (part of my original query was re these additional safety elements, just to see how many people think like this re hazard reduction)

5:00 😆😆😆

WTF @ 13:15.. 😂👍🇦🇺

Look up the more power puller

@LockyourHubs4WDing

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, I'll check it out.

I would leave the standing chain hooked up as security incase something lets go your car won't roll down the hill.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

3 жыл бұрын

One of the great things about chain is you don't compromise the strength when you shorten it with a grab hook. Though that doesn't account for something in the mechanism of the Hi-Lift letting go admittedly.

I would load that bag. It looks like a very dangerous operation

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

The winch damper?

@David0Perez0

4 жыл бұрын

@@LockyourHubs4WDing thanks for answer . yes, the winch damper. I wonder if in case that the anchor of the car breaks, it would not reach you.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

@@David0Perez0 We've done testing on loaded and unloaded winch dampers on snatch straps, the results were they are of negligible benefit. Though haven't tested on loaded winch lines yet (it's in the works!) Here's a link to the snatch damper vid. kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZqeGx8R7icLTpbQ.html

@David0Perez0

4 жыл бұрын

@@LockyourHubs4WDing I just watched . Amazing. Pretty scary. I guess the best solution is to keep the distance from the trajectory. thank you so much

@jeroenb8723

3 жыл бұрын

What model tirefort is this ? Because i would have expected it to work single line .

wheres your equalizer

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

No need at those loads!

@jimmyjimmy951

4 жыл бұрын

Only one tow point?

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

@@jimmyjimmy951 At the time yes, but since rates recovery points have been releases by Brolga Enterprises, so I've installed them, check out the installation here kzread.info/dash/bejne/hZNppqZ9lJPWZs4.html

@jimmyjimmy951

4 жыл бұрын

Lock your Hubs 4WDing Was not meant to be a criticism, just pointing out for the other comments on the feed that you can’t equalise with one tow point. I will check out your video.👍🇦🇺

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

@LockyourHubs4WDing

2 жыл бұрын

Wake me up before you go go?

Shouldn't take a vehicle that is not off-road worthy in the first place unless this is a demonstration. There's no reason to get stuck in that little hump.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

We've also stuck Matt's double locked 33" mud tyred 80 series Land Cruiser in exactly the same spot! It's a bit hard to tell in the video, but the back wheels are trying to climb a rock step 45cm high on the left rear.

@genxiong2695

4 жыл бұрын

@@LockyourHubs4WDing How can you get stuck there's plenty of land to just roll back. That terrain is so lite

@jedidiah5131

3 жыл бұрын

@@genxiong2695 You don't know what you don't know!

It was painful to watch. The anchor point was to close to the ground.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

On the tree?

@Ntwadumela1

4 жыл бұрын

@@LockyourHubs4WDing Yes on the tree. You put loads on the Tirfor it wasn't designed for plus you had to work in the dirt with the Hi-Lift.

@LockyourHubs4WDing

4 жыл бұрын

@@Ntwadumela1 you want the load as low on the tree as possible to minimise the mechanical advantage of the load on the tree.

@jimmyjimmy951

4 жыл бұрын

Ntwadumela1 You are clutching at straws to criticise a great demo.

@jedidiah5131

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ntwadumela1 It was designed for those loads, the shear pin would break if it wasn't....and if thats the only tool you have , guess what, its a long walk home if you don't give it a try....