Calling it now; Mercedes are going to be water bagging.

@JZTechEngineering

3 жыл бұрын

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@Lightning_Lance

3 жыл бұрын

teabagging

Maybe this will lure Toyota back, they love hydrogen

@ENGCSHemangVerma

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly! I was thinking about this a few days back.

@mickbrooks8114

3 жыл бұрын

Maybee honda too

@johnpatricklim4509

3 жыл бұрын

Or honda....both made a hydrogen car.....

@nagasako7

3 жыл бұрын

Honda, Toyota, and BMW. Tesla wants everyone to bet on lithium batteries

@HarrowKrodarius

3 жыл бұрын

@@nagasako7 Meanwhile Electric car production is even more polluting and usage of said car then the entire lifespan of a hydrogen powered car.

A couple of little things I believe haven't been well-covered here (to not say there weren't even covered at all) is that obtaining the H2 is not really 'green' as of now as - according to many engineers I've spoken to at LinkedIn - it needs a lot of energy to be created and thus fossil fuels are currently used the most. Then, it's not a cheap process either, which makes it unsustainable for cars. For heavy machinery or enormous cruisers, it could be worthy, but it seems that even if the process was 80% cheaper than it is now, it wouldn't even be cheap enough for application in cars... That's why a lot of people seem to be looking for synthetic fuels, like DME. If Porsche is exploring this way, there must be something...

@paulogazolla7488

3 жыл бұрын

Would it be possible with solar or wind energy?

@emiel1976ep

3 жыл бұрын

@@paulogazolla7488 yes

@abelisraelcruzayuso4682

3 жыл бұрын

@@paulogazolla7488 Yes, but the process still needs a lot of improvement...

@burningSHADOW42

3 жыл бұрын

​@@abelisraelcruzayuso4682 As far as I know, no it doesn't. We actually already reached the point where electrolysis is more energiy efficient than creating hydrogen from fossil fuel, but fossil fuels are still too cheap for electrolysis to be used for the majority of H2 production.

@paulogazolla7488

3 жыл бұрын

Wouldn't it be beautiful, if they had solar/wind power plants generating energy to each city where there would be a race, months before that race even happens.... They could sign contracts for 5 to 10 years.... A race takes a whole week.... Those power plants would generate energy the whole year. The could have partners like shell.... Or other company's... Expenses with fuel would be near zero....

This would be a hell of a lot better than electric.

@tamassebok711

3 жыл бұрын

But, this is electric. Literally electric motors push the car.

@4rdF1Hunny

3 жыл бұрын

@@tamassebok711 battery... Although I think at the time I was thinking combustion.

@danverss6176

3 жыл бұрын

the fact that electric could completely replace racing scares me, i literally just recently got into motorsports goddamn

@ivanmunoz9055

3 жыл бұрын

There is also that e-fuel that the VAG group is developing, it could be an interesting solution and not just for F1

3:09 lookin like this years merc lol

A race car is suppose to make a loud noise

@tayntedmemories

3 жыл бұрын

no it isnt

For sure these cars will be sounds like air-condition in the near future.

@sanurawat1651

3 жыл бұрын

So u want to breath smoke.... Pollution is real sir...

@MaverickSpawn

3 жыл бұрын

You do realize that it’s still an ICE? That the only thing changing would be the fuel and accompanying components? Go look up a RX-8 powered by hydrogen and one by regular fuel. Let me know their sound difference.

@nilswerner2742

3 жыл бұрын

@@MaverickSpawn It's no internal combustion engine. A hydrogen fuel cell just combines hydrogen and oxygen via a membrane/catalyst and gets electrical energy from that reaction. No combustion in there. EDIT: There are hydrogen powered ICEs, like the one you mentioned, but what's talked about here is a fuel cell, not an ICE.

@null_spacex

3 жыл бұрын

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

@instantnoodles2678

3 жыл бұрын

Don't make me sad, in my mind they're gonna have v12s and huge turbos in the next couple of years.

I can't wait for the first Grosjean-like accident but with full high pressure hydrogen tank inside. That will be a hell of a conversation starter.

@dwylaw

3 жыл бұрын

"Grosjean suffered severe burns on both his hands. Unfortunately, he is unavailable for an interview, as the rest of him is still unaccounted for."

@thegoat-ishere4414

3 жыл бұрын

The driver would be dead most likely

@nestoNESTOnesto

3 жыл бұрын

@@thegoat-ishere4414 And everything around in 50m circle.

@RacefanPat68

3 жыл бұрын

my point exactly, or the fist time a tank explodes and levels a whole pit complex.

what about hydrogen combustion engines instead of hydrogen electric engines They still keep the noise and combustion part

@Ofitus21

3 жыл бұрын

Incredibly inefficient, and studies show nitrogen byproducts are still generated... Overall a fuel cell is a far better solution

@raywei8472

3 жыл бұрын

Or just synthetic fuel. Chemists in oil companies are already working on that, in theory, it can be manipulated to be efficient and clean.

@Drrolfski

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ofitus21 Technology is actually moving quite fast atm to tackle its downsides. They are already building hydrogen combustion engines that use argon gas instead of air to completely cut unwanted emissions.

@tturi2

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ofitus21 it is inefficient, but it is still better than using racefuel, works with current engines (diesel or petrol) and it is still an engine, and works with 99% of all other cars, it's a good middle step towards hydrogen fuel cell helping build up the infrastructure for hydrogen energy

@ashtonbrandner5129

3 жыл бұрын

@Vedang Supatkar in Hydrogen combustion engines the nitrogen in the air would cause many NOx emissions to be produced 😥

Chain Bear has a great vid on a "Hydrogen future" for F1

Hydrogen internal combustion needs to be talked about more

@nelayo4894

3 жыл бұрын

but hydrogen ICE are the least effiecent of either. Burning hydrogen is not as efficent as having it in a fuel cell. If we are sticking to ICE (which I hope) biogas or other synthetic fuels are cheaper than hydrogen.

@sohammhatre

3 жыл бұрын

@@nelayo4894 , the next step for 2025 surely is synthetic fuels but in 10-15 years time if resources are put into developing Hydrogen ICE by F1 and the FIA it could well become far more efficient than it is today

@nelayo4894

3 жыл бұрын

@@sohammhatre But there are a few factors to consider: modern Hydrogencells/Fuel cells can be up top 60% in efficency. Even the highly developed Hybrid ICE from Mercedes gets only 50% while beeing extremly complexe. So burning Hydrogen would be less efficient than a fuel cell. Furthermore there is the problem of energy density. Hydrogen is not that dense and doesnt contain as much energy as other bio/sythnetic fuels. If they dont make big steps in technology a hydrogen ICE will be less efficient than a Hydorgen fuel cell while beeing more complex in design at the same time. I personally think that yes hydrogen ICE is a possibility, but not for f1 because of the big tanks etc. They either take Hydrogen Fuels cells or Biofuels. I dont thinkt Hydrogen ICE will be efficient enough to be considered better than a Synth/Bio ICE

@nikisepps

3 жыл бұрын

@@nelayo4894 So you're not wrong, Hydrogen ICES are indeed inefficient, but in my mind (as a real engineer too) it kinda depends on the purpose of the vehicle that determines which requirements are going to be valued. In this case, a high pressure liquid Hydrogen storage might be just the kind of platform we need to preserve the raw unadulterated passion an ICE gives off. I personally hate fuel cells on account of them being no more passionate than an Electric car. As someone who became an engineer solely because of race cars and ICES, I want to make the marriage of Hydrogen to ICE work, regardless of the fuel efficiency. Because it would still be a green engine. (Minimal oil burns would be negligible). Once something is "green" then I don't care how inefficient it is. In this case it's supposed to be N insane performance engine.

@nelayo4894

3 жыл бұрын

@@nikisepps Well, if we are going down the route of: lets to it for fun, not because its efficient then the could just stick to petrol and increase the battery storage and be done with it. If you want smaller F1 cars which are more nimble and faster you might even wanna ditch most of the complexe electronics and just use a turbo petrol engine. I would also like to keep the ICE in motorsports dont get me wrong, but why would one go the harder way of researching and developing an hdorgen ICE (keep in mind cost caps etc), when you could also use bio fuels/synth fuels with little change to the already existing infrastructure. Also another problem would be the already mentioned energy density of hydrogen. you would need big tanks or refueling. and to me "pit-stop-speed-hydrogen refueling" sound like disaster waiting to happen. if youre going for efficiency a hydrogen ICE would not be the best choice. If we are going for emotions (which makes sense in an f1 car we could/should go for bio fuels maybe with a supercharged car and an increased battery storage capacity. At least thats what I think based on the tech we have now. If someone in the next few years manages it to increase the efficency of hydrogen Engines towards 45-55% (or higher) then it my be a good option.

Chain Bear did a great video on this. Hydrogen can be used in a combustion engine too

@markvorster3921

3 жыл бұрын

hydrogen combustion engine isn't very realistic or practical though

@muhammadnurakbar4188

3 жыл бұрын

@@markvorster3921 "hydrogen combustion engine isn't very realistic" Toyota with their hydrogen ICE powered corolla : "OK"

@markvorster3921

3 жыл бұрын

@@muhammadnurakbar4188 it's not realistic for an F1 car

@muhammadnurakbar4188

3 жыл бұрын

@@markvorster3921 u don't mention F1 car, but hey it's still new aka still on development, who knows if this possible to power F1 in the future... Hydrogen is hard to produce because it use a lot electricity but who knows if there's a easier methods to produce it

Barrier touches the hydrogen tank Car : Gone, reduced to atoms.

@RacefanPat68

3 жыл бұрын

People dont understand the pressure they use. There is a reason no one has taken it up in 70 years that its been ready for prime time. Damn even rocket engineers mostly avoided it until technology got to where the risk of the hydrogen exploding was no more than the million (approx:),) other things that need to go right for a launch.

The technology is what makes F1 unique, and their engine's should be the most advanced in the world. I feel like they should go further down the efficiency road. Keep the ICE the same but unlock the energy capture and storage completely. The cars should also get electric front wheel motors for capture and deployment

@edoardoguglielmi2523

3 жыл бұрын

Another mug-k wouldn’t be that useful since it weights almost 40 kilos. Having that more weight at the front would make the cars steer like bricks

@DavidHyman031

3 жыл бұрын

@@edoardoguglielmi2523 it could be something totally different for the engineering teams to figure out. Imagine if they could design a capacitor that had the same levels of performance as the current carbon brakes do. That could then be used to provide power generation on entry and power delivery on exit. Allowing the teams to use less fuel because they're capturing more energy during the lap.

@edoardoguglielmi2523

3 жыл бұрын

@@DavidHyman031 I mean, in theory you are right. The major change would be on the balance and aerodynamics of the front. With the current technology I don’t see it happening but maybe a decade from now we’ll have radical changes and the design and we might see kers on both axles

@DavidHyman031

3 жыл бұрын

@@edoardoguglielmi2523 I believe Mercs battery storage system shrunk in size and weight significantly since 2014. With F1 there's always a way to make it happen. And this seems a lot more road relevant than introducing some new type of fuel which will take decades to reach scale

@dougconner95

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. I really like the idea of making the focus of the engine regulations thermal efficiency. Allegedly Mercedes f1 engine is around 50% which is incredibly impressive i would really like to see how far they can push this. I know internal combustion engines are on there way out but I still think they are needed for F1. Along with some more open regulations about engery storage and usage they could make some truly amazing power units.

Balls to the science, let’s talk about the noise, or lack of??

E-fuel or synthetic fuel by Porsche is an amazing innovation , can be used by all high powered cars : F1 / Ferrari / Porsche / Lamborghini / Aston Martin / McLaren / GMA / AMG / M power / ... and is a great ecological innovation to retain and further develop ICE...

@spythor1281

3 жыл бұрын

The big no u to electric car fanboys

@AutosportDesign

3 жыл бұрын

I think synthetic is still the way to go. The ICE has come so far and is so well developed to the point where re-engineering them to work with synthetics will be much cheaper and economical than hydrogen and electric

@spythor1281

3 жыл бұрын

@@AutosportDesign yes, ethanol fuel

Great video

@Autosport, have you guys heard of Forze Delft? They are a student team from the Delft University of Technology, The Netherlands, and they are already racing a hydrogen powered LMP3 car against GT3 cars for 3 years now. They have stood on the podium last year!

I want to see the compressor powered only by an MGU. This would effectively make F1 supercharged. This would free up the exhaust from be muffled by turbines. We could get extremely good sounding engines with very modern technology. I’d like to see freedom for a 6 cylinder layout. Porsche e-supercharged flat 6. BMW e-supercharged inline 6. Maybe somewhere between 2.0 to 2.4 liter motors to producing a deeper bass sound.

Combustion Hydrogen... there's plenty of time to develop it

Big props to Jake and entire Autosport team for a very accurate and lucid look at hydrogen technology as an energy carrier for propulsion. The narrative, and animations, were excellent. Shout out also to their use of VideoCopilot's saber plugin! I recognize that! :) The only tiny bone I'd pick with the story is that it did not mention other ways to use hydrogen as a fuel. Namely, instead of fuel cells, the option exists to develop spark ignition internal combustion engines (so called HICEs, as Ford and Mazda have tried in the past) or even gas turbines (think jet engines). Both the HICE and jet approach in theory could be direct drive through transmissions, but I suspect would best be used in a hybrid configuration generating electricity. To be clear, a hydrogen-fueled fuel cell as outlined in this story is also really just another type of hybrid. It just replaces the gasoline (racing fuel) ICE+generator hybrid with a fuel cell consuming hydrogen (plus at least some batteries). Anywho, good stuff!

Wtf, a motorsports channel taught electrolysis better than my school

if base on now day F1 hybrid power train, 1.6 lite V6 combustion turbo engine + battery hybrid configuration, but no any regulation or limitation , how much can do for improve efficiency ??

I have been saying that this is where F1 needs to go for years now, since a top gear episode showing off a certain honda hydrogen powered car. Literally perfect for F1, and would help push this tech forward so it gets used more commonly in road vehicles.

@thewoode1050

3 жыл бұрын

I see, you enjoy watching explosions after crashes...

@jamescrewe6845

3 жыл бұрын

@@thewoode1050 do you really think the technology would be in a road car, made by a large manufacturer like Honda if it wasn't super safe? Also, most combustible fuels used in vehicles is explosive but you don't see them exploding (very often) even in huge accidents.

@gooddypm

3 жыл бұрын

@@thewoode1050 and a lithium battery fire is okay, just like Richard Hammonds in the Roman, which kept lighting for 5 days? Or the fire ball that ended Grosjean’s F1 career? GM motors had a Hydrogen car in 2003. Toyota sell the Mirai now, and I’m not sure about the Honda Clarity. So why can’t F1 use hydrogen. I think it is an idea that needs research.

@thewoode1050

3 жыл бұрын

@@gooddypm Because Hydrogen is more explosive than gasoline. Hydrogen can't be stored in liquid state. Just a leak in a pipe will immediately create an explosive mixture with air, then just a spark needed and the fireball that Grosjean survived turns into a proper explosion with him dead.

@gooddypm

3 жыл бұрын

@@thewoode1050 I know. So knowing all that, why are they on sale? Obviously the6 have gotten the technology under control to the point that it is safe for consumers!

chad 80s f1: Uses literal Rocket fuel. Virgin possible future f1: **pisses itself**

@EmmieFloding

3 жыл бұрын

Nowadays hydrogen fuel is used in many rockets so still sort of rocket fuel

@KomboAndy

3 жыл бұрын

@@EmmieFloding but it's not used for combustion in hydrogen cars.

3 жыл бұрын

banned cause it was toxic (contains toluen)

Don't remember what year 2018 or 2019 but during the 24hrs of le mans in the night the commentary was talking about hydrogen powered cars

Alternatives to petrol being "the next big thing" is a recurring trend that dies down fast. Wind/solar/hydrogen - been here for 25+ years iirc. Some first cars were steam powered, at early stages of the automotive industry electric was ahead of ICEs, but lack of range killed them for quite some time.

Electric Motorsport makes me sad 😞

So bye bye beautiful noise, brilliant

I think we have to admit as fans is there's going to be a day probably within 15 years that there won't be an ICE on a formula 1 car. And what ought to happen is F1 and other motorsports gotta to figure out a way to make electric or hydrogen power as exciting and interesting as possible cause it's on the horizon and it's best for all of us to adapt to the circumstance.

@gooddypm

3 жыл бұрын

I can not agree more.

@dodaexploda

3 жыл бұрын

I think it's the opposite. The new CEO of F1 says they are comitted to hybrids for the next itteration of engines. They can make those 100% clean by using fuel converted from the air. Of which many companies including the petro companies are interested in. The technology can be used to produce carbon neutral planes which is the biggest hurdle for fuel. It also means better sequestering technology. We can have our cake of internal combustion engines and eat it too.

@gooddypm

3 жыл бұрын

@@dodaexploda you can’t make an ICE 100% clean. It is impossible. And that is what the video says, not in the current guise, but maybe the one after next.

@dodaexploda

3 жыл бұрын

@@gooddypm I don't know if there is any limits with Carbon Engineering's process to not make 100% clean fuel. But it sounds like that's what they are claiming. kzread.info/dash/bejne/f5aTmqaDdpmuoJM.html

@acegarcia3719

3 жыл бұрын

@@dodaexploda I think ICE will be included in the next ruleset but it'll likely be the last as by the early 2030s manufacturers are going to pressure F1 to go to all electric or hydrogen.

Why dont we just use coal fired steam engines for f1?

@dipanwitanandi4274

3 жыл бұрын

Queue earape version of thomas the little steam engine

I just couldn't imagine where world doesn't hear the roar of internal combustion of F1 engine,keep in mind that the hydrogen option in this video doesn't burn the hydrogen,but to generate energy from the fuel cell to powers the electric motor ie.Formula E on steroid.....bzzzzztt "visible sadness"😥

autosport really falling off, bring back v10s

Make V10 Great Again.

After that accident from Grosjean that we still haven't heard the end of, I can't see a hydrogen powered car ever happening.

@keeganclarke6475

3 жыл бұрын

Hydrogen is actually a lot safer when it comes to crashing. This is as it combusts in a sudden flash that vents the tank at the point of puncture and the fire ends very quickly. Contrast this to Grojean’s crash were the petroleum just kept burning, and was actually the greatest threat to his life in the crash (due to all the other safety technologies preventing him being squished).

@rjfaber1991

3 жыл бұрын

@@keeganclarke6475 The main difference is that hydrogen is lighter than air, while petrol is heavier. The hydrogen that would be spewed out into the air would indeed combust very suddenly (which has both upsides and downsides), and the hydrogen that was still in the tank at the point of combustion would vent out in a shooting flame. Air will rush into the tank to replace the hydrogen, but because the oxygen in the air is used in the fire, it basically just fills the tank with nitrogen. I know it doesn't sound very safe, but you are right that it is safer. Petrol being spewed out from the fuel tank would douse the car and several square metres surrounding the car in flammable liquid that would then ignite, creating a less intense but much more widespread fire that is actually more difficult to extricate a driver from.

@RacefanPat68

3 жыл бұрын

@@keeganclarke6475 hydrogen has to be stored at THOUSANDS of psi to make it dense enough to carry. Idiotic ideas like a quick fire... you would be burned to a crisp in a few secs instead of climbing out after 24. sounds good

@TheSilverShadow17

Жыл бұрын

@@rjfaber1991 Hydrogen also disperses and evaporates extremely quickly from the tank before it has any chance of rupturing. There's a video out there where it shows someone actually shooting a tank full of Hydrogen and the actual storage unit remained intact.

I just had a lession about hydrogen, we talked about hydrogen powered cars, im currently watching when the vix came out 49 mins ago

As long as it makes good noise

How about using hydrogen in internal combustion engines? Ik it's dumb for road use but actually makes sense in racing - maintains the sound while reducing carbon footprint

@muhammadnurakbar4188

3 жыл бұрын

Well... Toyota already made one

What about flinstones foot power?

Does is have to be a fuel cell? Can the H2 be burned ala gasoline or diesel in a internal combustion engine??

Synth fuels would be a better solution imo

Hydrogen fuel seems to be a very distant future for F1, with the current technology it's nearly impossible to make it work properly, but maybe in GT cars it might me closer than we think

what about moving to full E-fuels? Currently regular fuel has about 7% E-fuel, what about moving to 100%? I know it's a lot pricier/gallon but wouldn't that be a better alternative if hydrogen doesn't pan out?

WEC's MissionH24.

I think people forget that water vapour is still a greenhouse gas and long term ramifications for production level cars adopting (trickle down from f1) is unknown and definitely not as green as you think it is. In f1 metaphors, it’s like aero improvements from wind tunnel don’t always translate to real world performance because of track conditions, turbulent air, cross winds... lab results aren’t always what’s going to happen in reality like how in reality paper bags degrade into methane (a lot worse than co2) rather than CO2 when in hot land fills.

Slotting in new fuel cells or simply the hydrogen tanks

Nuclear power would be nice: mushroom clouds on sector 3, yellow flag. Box box for doomsday tires

Concentrating so much on the emissions output of 22 (already very efficient) cars is the absolute least important and unrewarding thing that effort should be applied to now. If f1 wants to cut it's carbon footprint, concentrating on the magnitudes more emissions it expels by driving fleets of diesel trucks and flying 1000's of tons of gear and people all around the world is the real footprint.

So, the lead driver will drive on slicks and others on wet sets of tyres?

You totally missed it. F1 is not heading into Fuel Cell Hydrogen power, that is actually an electric car. But they are thinking about e-Fuel, which is also mainly Hydrogen + Carbon, that works same way as traditional fuel, on the same ICE engine.

Sounds pretty dangerous, especially knowing how vulnerable drivers are to a Grosjean style crash.

Idk I feel there will be alot of resistance from some of the mainstream electric car manufacturers. I mean Elon Musk worked overtime in discrediting hydrogen powered cars in the past so FIA adopting this tech for future of motorsport would not be so reassuring for a lot of mainstream electric car manufacturers. But I do see why FIA could consider this as a viable option for future of F1.

I truly believe hydrogen is the true answer regarding the future of the automotive industry, rather than batteries. Lighter, easier to charge, has more applications, and fuel cells should be easier to recycle than batteries. Once the infrastructure to generate hydrogen is created, it'll become more widely used

@pkramer962

3 жыл бұрын

I think it definitely is one part of the automotive future. But the innefficiency of producing and transporting hydrogen will keep it from being the only power solution. So it will be one option next to batteries and synthetic fuels. And for each there will be a couple of use cases that are optimal.

@louiscypher4186

3 жыл бұрын

@@pkramer962 I think long term it will be Hydrogen, Synthetic fuels are a pipe dream. The latest "miracle" that Porsche is bragging about is derived from Hydrogen so it's even more inefficient. Whilst Batteries are certainly going to be the winner over this century, they will be outlawed in the next century due to massive amounts of toxic waste produced by them. The claims of clean production and reusability have no solid scientific bases. Hydrogen is inefficient yes but provided we actually get carbon emissions under control and produce hydrogen from clean powered electrolysis it will be far less environmentally damaging in the long term.

I dont think hydrogen will be as far but you can power the cars with a mixture of hydrogen and Co2 without even making major engine changes the way the engines work would still be the same

I like the idea of biofuel. You could bring back the V8 or V10 but made to be powered on biofuel. All of the noise the fans want that hydrogen cells won't deliver. F1 may have to turn into more of an entertainment series rather than a pinnacle series to survive.

@CH-yp5by

3 жыл бұрын

hear hear!

Maybe a replaceable h2 tank..... Wouldn't be a problem to have 20 - 30 seconds out stops....

Instead of a fuel cell they should experiment with a hydrogen ICE. BMW already proved its feasibility with the Hydrogen 7 years ago, I’m sure performance can be added for racing

It was a concept on the anime gpx cyber formula so why not but it will be long

Oh.. the humanity

The big problem with hydrogen is that it must be stored at massive pressure and as a result the tank's walls must be very thick - leading to either very heavy cars or very little tank volume. Regular gasoline fuel is very combustible, a driver ripping off the hydrogen hose because he drives off too soon leads to an outright catastrophe. I'm personally a fan of electric and I think a method of 10-second battery swapping would be possible, I think the more realistic route for the foreseeable future is hybrid with a bigger battery and E85 ethanol fuel.

what about a Lambo Sian style hybrid system that fastly charges under braking to give extra boost out the corners. this is sth that sounds like a good thing for racing

@hyphed4196

3 жыл бұрын

We already have that, but it's not called KERS, it's called MGU-K.

Me on Hydrogen combustion engine side. More rpm, more sound, more lightweight ..

@dipanwitanandi4274

3 жыл бұрын

Nope ... Containing hydrogen is a challenge ...which has to be dealt it .

Go for ammonia, it’s got 120 octane and you can make any car run on it. Any petrol engine can be set up to run on it, as with alcohol.

What about hydrogen combustion engines? This should be part of the conversation because technology is moving fast to tackle its downsides. Not to mention that it meets F1's future requirement for engines to look and sound exciting.

@0X0Patrick0X0

3 жыл бұрын

It’s more complex and a lot less efficient than using a hydrogen fuel cell and thus is also not very road relevant either.

@Drrolfski

3 жыл бұрын

@@0X0Patrick0X0 New advances in technology are actually changing that. Using argon gas for instance allows for efficiencies above 80% while keeping unwanted emissions to zero. These have been so far the biggest drawbacks of hydrogen combustion, thus making it relevant again for a sport like F1.

Dumb question but why can't they just burn the hydrogen? The sound of combustion is an integral part of the F1 spectacle. Fuel cells are just another way to have a soundless electric car. No thanks.

The main elephant in the room which you failed to raise was FF! is about entertainment and large part of that is the noise an F1 engine makes. It was a huge change going from V8 to V6 where a large amount of that entertainment factor was lost. They have had to create a Netflix series to get interest back in to F1 but to lose most sound completely will be the death of the sport. I woud have thought the main future was their E fuels, purely synthetic fuels which do not create Co2 with the Hybrid as the future.

H2 isn't often made by elektrolysis becasue of the high energy requirements. Usually it's made from natural gas with a steam reform process which produces CO which is then made into CO2. Ironically our current hydrogen production is very CO2 intensive.

Id like F1 to just go with an open engine formula with the caveat that the car must pass road emissions regulations. 1.- It would encourage the development of high performance catalytic converters and other emissions-reducing tech that is extremely relevant for road cars, and thus interesting for manufacturers. 2.- It would create huge variety on the grid as teams come up with different solutions 3.- It would nerf ICE power slowly but surely as emissions regulations become progressively more strict, creating a gradual transition towards the elimination of combustion engines as they become less and less competitive over time. As a tangent of this it would also mean that in the transition years we could potentialy see a Hybrid vs EV vs Hydrogen battle on track which would be awesome. 4.- It prevents F1 from falling behind the times as it ties the sport to the reality of production cars for the consumer. Would it be expensive? Yes, but costs spiral out of control regardless of the rules you got, it happens every single time without fail. Cost management would be better achieved with a cost cap for engine development or something of the sort.

F1 also said with advancements in technology even 2 stroke can also be used in an environmentally clean way. Now hydrogen and currently Hybrid or even synthetic fuel . Conclusion: Any form is viable and environmentally friendly. All is a matter of agreement on narratives and contract agreements ( which players/broker makes money and how much).

You mention the potential financial barrier here in terms of the cost pf development. That cost could be greatly reduced if F1 considered adapting the current engines to run on Hydrogen. Isn't that worth considering? Also means we would still have the noise.

@sking2173

3 жыл бұрын

Formula-e cars make noise. A very UNPLEASANT noise ...

Someone help me with with this - The fully electric Volkswagon ID.R can go from 0 - 100kph in 2.2 seconds. Since Hydrogen fuel cells still use electric motors to power cars forwards why is a hydrogen car slower off the line than the ID.R? Is it all down to weight?

Full synthetic biofuels should be the goal. Military vehicles such as jets and such need a high density fuel source that hydrogen and batteries cannot provide now and atleast in the near future. Finding some kind of biofuel that is either environmentally friendly, carbon neutral, or whatever other environmental friendly metric it can qualify for will do. If we can have biofuels that are environmentally friendly then we can bring back V8s, V10s, and V12s if one wanted too with a small hybrid systems potentially.

*in 2040* Man that hydrogen engine sounded amazing !🤩 Why did they take it away?🤬 I miss that blblblblbl sound😔

.... carbon neutral biofuel twin turbo v10s? No? Cmon man, we want the scream.

They should use hydrogen combustion engines, then you get what we have now pretty much without emissions, only nitrogen gasses, so you'll need some sort of nitrogen gas filter

Bring back the V12's

why no ethanol???

I don't care what fuel they are using as long as its not electic..👍👍

Why not just go back to v10s and v8s and just make it so the teams have to use synthetic fuels. That way you get the noise and drama. And there is no environmental impact. Synthetic fuels are more expensive but this is f1 so it makes sense for this to be the place synthetic fuels are first used.

@sulphurous2656

3 жыл бұрын

Imagine Hybrid V10's using biofuels.

@louiscypher4186

3 жыл бұрын

Because they do have an environmental impact and Manufacturers want the sport to reflect their on road models. The future of racing is fuel efficient Hybrids. To do that in v10's and v8's would be even more expensive to produce the v6's. You're just going to have to let the noise factor go.

@dylanforristal1959

3 жыл бұрын

@@louiscypher4186 synthetic fuels are actually green fuels. To create them you take Co2 out of the atmosphere hence they are carbon neutral. Porche are currently investing in a massive green powered plant in Chile to produce synthetic fuels for its cars.

@louiscypher4186

3 жыл бұрын

@@dylanforristal1959 Porsche is producing an E-fuel which although Synthetically produced shouldn't be lumped in with Traditional Synthetic fuels, these require feed stock sourced from oil and thus still produce emissions and often the "green" side originates from crops which due to being sourced from industrial farms are emissions intensive to produce. Whether Porsche's new fuel is viable i doubt it. They are using wind energy to produce Hydrogen which is then run through bonded with CO2, sourced from DAC to produce Methanol. So it's going to be even more expensive then even Hydrogen by about 30%.

But I hope the sound doesn't come from a speaker

F1 also said with advancements in technology even 2 stroke can also be used in an environmentally clean way. Now hydrogen and currently Hybrid or even synthetic fuel . Conclusion: Any form is viable and environmentally friendly. All a matter of agreeing on narratives (money brokers agreements).

Hydrogen fuel units are a great idea, but there is a massive number of challenges, and not obvious if you are comparing standard hydrogen powered road cars. The extensive use of carbon fibre components, from the chassis to the outer bodywork, and its a fantastic conductor of electricity, so that opens a whole pandoras box of risk or danger of igniting any slightest leak. Also, the f1 bodywork actually generates a static electric charge as it passes through the air. And the engineering of the cars constantly pushes the limits for all components, hence the constant issues with retirements from an electrical system failure. The cars are shaken hard and sharp constantly, so wiring, connections, and anything holding a fluid gets savaged and even today hydraulic system failures are common. Doing that to a hydrogen fuel container is potentially deadly. F1 cars also build up heat, and a lot of it, from wheels, brakes, the driver, and components that are not connected to the fuel supply, and as hydrogen has a very low boiling or expansion temperature and expands much more than other gasses. So inside the cars structure there is little room to cope with this ( the le mans cars have much more internal space to cover keeping the fuel cell cool, shock absorbed, and isolated from driver, power train and crash structures) expansion and contraction. Last ( but really first) for driver safety, pit crews, marshalls and fans at the grandprix, the size of impact protection on each car would have to be massive, and the whole architecture and regulations rewritten for the cars. As it is, the fuel tank on an f1 car is only a few centimetres away from the driver, as we saw with Grosjean. Doing so with a higher octane ( ie more explosive) was banned after the crashes in the 70's. So fitting a potential hugely explosive bomb in a box,, with a driver no more than a metre from it, travelling at 200mph where the heat or a small spark the whole thing off is not a sane possibility yet. Perhaps in the future with exotic materials and components it might be, but until they can guarantee that the fuel cell, lines,power units survive any distance and any crash or accident 100% of the time, it wont happen.

Yeah it's result is water. The insane amount of power needed is convinently always left out when people chirp up on the lack environment impact. At the end. When you add in the energy needs to create it, it's much different. Where do you think that comes from? Wind and sun only?

From my understanding, hydrogen can actually run in a typical ICE unit. Now that'd be cool.

@sch3ffel

3 жыл бұрын

material resistance not strong enough, engines would turn into 100 kg grenades.

@blackbirdsr71

3 жыл бұрын

Engine's already are 100kg grenades. You are obviously unaware of a whole world of technology available for high pressure systems. Entire hydraulic pump systems run at 1000's of bar, high temps, for days on end in vibrating machines. Don't project your own knowledge limitations onto other people's credible suggestions.

@sch3ffel

3 жыл бұрын

@@blackbirdsr71 they already are 100kg grenades but not hydrogen grenades... the materials will simply not hold.

@blackbirdsr71

3 жыл бұрын

@@sch3ffel 'engines would turn into 100 kg grenades', 'they already are 100kg grenades'. Your immediate contradiction of yourself proves the amount of credibility you have to make such a claim, i.e. none. 'the materials will simply not hold' is a sentence you have repeated with no technical explanation whatsoever. In fact it sounds like rambiling rubbish.

@sch3ffel

3 жыл бұрын

@@blackbirdsr71 because i have no obligation to give any to an asshole that just drops in insulting people he doesnt know.

Porsche announce plans for fusion powered car for LeMans 2035 F1:Ah Ha!

the only issue with hydrogen.. compared to regular fuel, it takes up more space.. let's say, it approximately takes double the space a regular fuel does for the same mileage.. which would fuk up the slim aero body f1 developed throughout the years.. they would need to unban refueling during pit if they wanna keep the classic f1 look.. is it banned? idk LOL. *if course, this is assuming everyone can develop great & safe engines with hydrogen.

What about the Nitrogen powered car???

Whelp there goes the fun of F1

They should cut down on emotions of logistics instead. Plus these cars are already really fuel efficient

I say power the cars with hydrogen for 60%, then slap a as wonderful sounding ethanol engine as possible in it. Be sure the ethanol’s made with as much green power as possible. Nature happy, our ears happy, and (with the budget cap) manufacturers happy.

2051 - Nuclear powered car

Worth noting that hydrogen really isn't that clean because electrolysis is so inefficient that most hydrogen comes from steam reforming. Ideally, this process takes water and methane (often contained in natural gas) and produces only carbon monoxide and hydrogen. Carbon monoxide is not a direct greenhouse gas but it does lead to higher levels of methane in the air as it competes with methane for Hydroxyl groups which would otherwise take methane out of the air. In reality, steam reforming has a second round where it uses water and converts that carbon monoxide into carbon dioxide and more hydrogen. Without this second round steam reforming is quite wasteful. Electrolysis is primarily only used when shipping hydrogen is impractical. Electrolysis can actually be much worse for the environment because it uses so much electricity. That can of course be solved by using sustainable energy in electrolysis. In some regions with incredibly cheap electricity and very costly shipping (basically only Iceland) electrolysis may be economically viable in situations where steam reforming is possible.

F1: Tries to make sport more sustainable. Also F1: *Doesn't get rid of night races* Lojik

FIA should have it, you can make ICE MGU with 2020 regs or have Hydrogen PU with zero regs. To encourage Hydrogen PU dev

lets hope biofuels could bring v10s back

Slower cars? Yes, please. It would allow for closer racing.

General Motors had this in 1986 as a solution

*Wait what* *Hydrogen?!*

@pi_za8214

3 жыл бұрын

Same.

Want to decrease the carbon footprint? Change the rules to require the current IC engine to use methanol. IndyCars ran methanol for years, and then more recently, ethanol. It works fine as a race fuel. And it’s renewable ! (Current IndyCars run E85, which works well, too.) Not only that, but the exhaust of ethanol-burning cars has a pleasant smell !!

Orrrrr instead bring back the V10s and run them on ethanol or another biofuel 🤷‍♂️

@-ragingpotato-937

3 жыл бұрын

Because nobody cares about biofuels, its so 2010s. Biofuels are little more than a stopgap solution that the world have largely decided to skip entirely.

@sking2173

3 жыл бұрын

@@-ragingpotato-937 I’m all for a fuel that can be used to mix drinks after the race !!