Machinist here. The reason you're not getting that gummy/stringy chips is partially because you're machining a casting. The extrusions you get have a more cohesive structure for a metallurgical stand point. You seen to be using a series of aluminum specifically used in casting. Those types of aluminum have excellent flow and pouring characteristics, as well as being highly machinable. Love your videos, keep up the good work!

Damn I’ve never even watched this fella before but as soon as he said “welcome friend” at the start I was subscribing in no time👍🏻

@FloweringElbow

4 жыл бұрын

Good morning Kyza, thanks for the comment and welcome! Great to have you aboard, hopefully you get a chance to check out some of my other vids. Peace, Bongo.

@kdesign101

2 жыл бұрын

Me to.. nice find

Friends! I hope you found this as interesting as I did 😀 I learned a lot doing these little aluminium heat treating experiments, but certainly have a lot still to learn. Let me know your experiences! Might you heat treat parts in the future? Lets talk improvements on the procedure - Ideas ?? 🛠️

@pimplequeen2

4 жыл бұрын

Cool stuff... This is the first diy tempering I have found so far.... I've done quite a bit of welding on an old battered ultralight to keep it airborne for the last few years in failsafe sections of the machine but I am now drifting towards wanting to fabricate "slightly" more critical parts for a new machine that will require re-treating after welding (6082-T6)…. Not many seem to have attempted it. If I can crack this nut ill be a happy man :)

@pvp-mcprison29

11 ай бұрын

@@pimplequeen2 Did you crack the nut?

Mate, this is gold! I machine a lot of T5 (I'm guessing in the 4000 series..just construction grade) with HSS and get very good results. I never looked at how you can heat treat ally. It's so simple. Cheers mate.

@jacobjackson2372

5 жыл бұрын

Umm. Im not sure that's the T5 he is referring to. The T5 he's talking about is a process rather than a type of alloy?

@TheChrisey

3 жыл бұрын

@@jacobjackson2372 T5 is not a type of alloy, Machete is obviously refering to the hardening level of the material he was machining and not a type of alloy.

This is great to know! I did something similar for a welding job on my brothers motorbike muffler. No idea if it worked but this gives me hope that it at least helped. Thanks for sharing.

I learned some new things! Thank you very much!

Very nice video and interesting results!

@FloweringElbow

4 жыл бұрын

Hey thanks Agapios :D

Excellent video well done.

@FloweringElbow

4 жыл бұрын

Ritzoid, thanks for the encouragement friend! :D

I have no idea how I did not know this... So simple and yet very worthwile. Loving your vids, keep up the good work. Also, your chuck key vigelance wants some consideration. Not for you, as your lathe has a guard, but on a forum like this prople are watching and learning, and not necessarily descriminating.

a Nice educational video!.

Great video my friend

Left your chuck key in at 5 min mark, naughty naughty! Great vid, thanks

very interesting.

Merry Christmas Bongo. Peace to you too. V

@FloweringElbow

3 жыл бұрын

Merry Christmas to you too! 😃

Interesting little video. I think that using alloy wheel stock is a major factor in the success of this experiment. Given the stock used it was only when you machined the heat treated stock that we saw the noticeable improvement in the quality of the finished cuts. The before and after heat treatment cuts with the power hacksaw was particularly impressive in the step up in quality. Did you quench all of the stock as a part of the experiment? I think a quench/no quench experiment would be of interest as it is literally the easiest thing for most hobby casters to do without too much trouble.

@FloweringElbow

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Mark. Yes it was all quenched, but I agree that would be a nice little experiment. If I was casting something that was dimensionally sensitive, and the part wasn't going to be machined, I would think twice about the quenching though... Even the air cooled test pieces in Möller et al's study showed large improvements with T5 heat treating - and there would be less danger of warpage without a water quench.

Nice video, subscribed. ✌

@FloweringElbow

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks Mobius. Welcome aboard!

Awesome work. Have 6061 bolts I wanna make sure will go on my car...

Thanks for the great video. Honestly I'd never seen T5 being used for casting only for extruded profiles. This is because the most typical casting alloy A383 has mainly 12% Si. and I'm not sure what intermetallics would end up as the result of heat treatment and I have to revisit some of my coursebooks. But if you melt profiles (6xxx grades), then it all checks out acc to your experiment. But thanks for the good presentation. loved it!

@eelcohoogendoorn8044

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, what heat treatment does can be super sensitive to the details of the alloy; but in any case those machined surfaces showed a compelling difference.

OK great stuff, what's the hardness difference?

Could a Vacuum pump and chamber be used to reduce the porosity in the ingots?

Interesting comparison. I would definently recommend you get some polished inserts for doing aluminium. Quite cheap if you get the chinese ones and you will see a night and day difference in finish and free-er cutting as well.

@FloweringElbow

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Joel. Thanks for the tip. I did get me some of those inserts, and they work well :D thanks! Bongo.

Great video. I guess quenching the billets after pouring counted as the quench in the table you displayed?

@FloweringElbow

4 жыл бұрын

hey Orions Anvil, thanks for the question and apologies for the slloooow response. Yes, you are right though - if you catch it right, the immersion following the pour is the quench. You have to time it well though to early and things get a little freaky - too late and it doesn't do anything. I have noticed a side benefit of this quenching is a comparatively shiny surface.. Cheers, Bongo.

@OrionsAnvil

4 жыл бұрын

@@FloweringElbow hey thanks, that makes sense 👍

Nice video. What did you use for a melting stock? the gummy stuff is from cans and extrusions. If you used a car rim as you mention you have a dedicated casting alloy. Mark

@FloweringElbow

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Mark. Yep, it was mainly scrap from alloy wheels. There may have been a few other car based scrap castings in the mix, but all just previously cast alloy parts.

@heinzhaupthaar5590

2 жыл бұрын

@@FloweringElbow Well, if you start out with an alloy with good machineability there's not much smearing and problems to be expected. Would be interesting if and how a really gummy alloy would react to that though. If you're interested in redoing the whole experiment I'd be willing to order some of the nasty shit and send it your way. If there's no scrap with proper qualities to be found of course. Edit: Btw coolant isn't necessarily for cooling, especially with aluminium. But it helps to prevent edge built-up. A mobile MQL thingy is is really easy to make, can prolong tool life quite a bit and makes for a better surface finish.

Can you put a link to the chart or frame it better so i can screenshot it

Hi,, thanks for a great video,, What about cooling after the 5-6 hours in the owen ??

@FloweringElbow

2 жыл бұрын

I just let them air cool... Not sure if there's a better way. I have heard good things about pre cooling in a freezer before machining, which I intend to try sometime...

Yo I just put my aluminum in 450 f then quenched it in water. Good or not as in is it harder then before

I made an arrowhead out of a tin can bottom. How can I make it harder

Part of the surface finish issue is the shape of the insert point. Using a diamond hone, stroke the point of the insert to produce a curve with a very small radius, (approx 5 thou 0.005) this will ease the entry of the tool into the work and soften the surface finish. Im sure there are vids out there on how to hone a carbide insert. (or for aluminium, you can use HSS with a nice curved point.) btw, the quality of surface finish should improve by an order of magnitude with a proper tool.

@FloweringElbow

3 жыл бұрын

Hi SV Telos, thanks for sharing these tips. Appreciate that :)

شكرن الك

@FloweringElbow

2 жыл бұрын

أهلا بك

Martin has been encouraging me to have a go at T5 heat treatment but I am wondering what sort of stock you melted to make the test samples? I have had some awful experiences with castings made from unknown alloys. Martin eventually "persuaded' me to buy some good quality ingots (601C) and this transformed the quality of my castings overnight. Although the 601C will take a T6 treatment I haven't found it necessary to get good machineability from the new parts I am making now. Regards, Preso

@FloweringElbow

2 жыл бұрын

Good morning Mark, thanks for getting in touch. We have been using old alloy wheels, usually LM25 alloy. They seem to work quite well and we have an easy supply (that's very cheap / free)... One of our biggest problems ATM is with pinhole porosity. We haven't specifically tried de-gassing the liquid melt. Although we do have some commercial tablets for the purpose, I discovered in the datasheet that they don't play nicely with alloys that contain magnesium (LM25 has a little)... It seems to make quite a big difference what the ambient humidity is - it's often very high here in Wales. Also not so good if I'm pouring towards evening when the dew comes. Ok cheers for now, Bongo.

@odgreenshq6221

2 жыл бұрын

@@FloweringElbow do it, it drives off hydrogen, also increasing your temperature over a period of time will help keep porosity down as well. Think of putting a pot of water on a burner that is on high. With in minutes you have a violent boiling and bubbling of water. The same can happen, The release of hydrogen will stay trapped in your Aluminum and the castings will have your pin hole porosity ,this is also why putting vents in the molds is really important on top of pouring slow for less turbulence and adding a flux to make the aluminum pour more water like all of these things combined makes captain planet ......i mean really tight and extremely low to almost zero porosity in your final casting .

@odgreenshq6221

2 жыл бұрын

and it helps form to your molds better to get better detail and you will have over all less shrinkage ahem ....in the metals surface quality

Hi! Would love a closer look at that saw, and I was wondering if you ever tried foaming aluminum,by adding an agent during molten state, like sodium bicarbonate

@FloweringElbow

Жыл бұрын

Hey Matt thanks for getting in touch 😀 no never tried that foaming business... what kind of application are you thinking about? Usually I'm trying hard to get bubbles out of the melt...

@mattzee6287

Жыл бұрын

@@FloweringElbow Actually, I'm just curious as to how it could be done. I guess it has numerous applications,fire prevention, sound proofing, and it can be used as armor as well. If you meant the saw, I was thinking I could make cuts without all that noise, if I were to build one similar. (Or just similar in principle)

@DeltaSquadron63

Жыл бұрын

@@FloweringElbow There is a video by a youtuber called Good Roads Casting DIY Skateboard Trucks At Home - Ep. 3 timestamp 4:30 He goes over what sodium carbonate can do for your aluminum casts, such as fixing holes created by trapped hydrogen.

I have an rc car and the slipper hub who connects to the diff cracks over time and that part is pretty expensive would be a good idea to heat thread it in the oven? Its a slipper clutch piece so its made to slip with the slipper pads under heavh load

@FloweringElbow

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Surchaufeur, cant really say for sure, depends on lots of factors, especially the material alloy. It probably wouldn't do any harm...

Hi good test, I had some aluminium which stuck to the lathe tool and was gummy. The scrap aluminium often is an alloy which machines great. However you may come across some aluminium which is gummy. I always thought this was pure aluminium or a different alloy. I think it was some extrusion off an old aluminium greenhouse. According to theory quencing should soften oposite to ferrous . I was interested in this because I am studying aluminium bearings and a key quality is strength versus embedability( softness). I will send you some gummy aly.

@FloweringElbow

4 жыл бұрын

Hi mechmania. Thanks for getting in touch. I think artificial aging - the kind of heat treatment I try here works best with casting alloys. Like you (I think?), I have found extrusion to be quite gummy... your bearing research sounds interesting. Are they bushings or ball bearing?

@mechmania8450

4 жыл бұрын

@@FloweringElbow I was thinking of casting some plain bearings for an old lathe . I read somewhere that aluminium tin alloy could be used. On a another forum a lot of people came back saying aly /bronze would be better. However an old guy said they used aly bearings in the spitfire engine. Anyway I began to think that if the bearings were soft initially they would bed in and work harden with use. There must be a lot of trade secrets involved. I wonder if u have noticed the gummy aly melts at a high temp, added zinc/tin lowers the temp.

kerosene works as well if not better than WD. at work, i can't use the water based coolant we have on aluminum do to the gummy and self scaring tendencies. instead i use a light oil similar to WD and am able to push well over 2000sfm @ 0.035" feed and something like 0.150 doc for rough cuts and around 1500sfm @0.008" feed and 0.010 doc for finish cuts on the lathes in T6. aluminum will quickly soak up all the power of your machines as running at those settings will put me above 25hp draw.

What is the gummy stuff

currently building an RC car from scrath out of aluminum.... I will deffinetly heattreat the parts when they are made! -Thanx!

@FloweringElbow

3 жыл бұрын

Right on Simon. Would love to see that project. Good luck!

@FloweringElbow

3 жыл бұрын

Right on Simon. Would love to see that project. Good luck!

Quick question, did you ever get the castings hardness tested? I'm curious as to the change in rockwell. Thank you in advance for any response.

@FloweringElbow

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Andy. Thanks for the very good question. I did not, no. Would certainly be a nice test to do though.

@andynuck1772

4 жыл бұрын

I want to harden some 1/4 inch (6.3mm) store bought aluminum rod. I am unaware of the alloy composition but I have access to a hardness tester at work. I'm thinking I am going to bake a piece of the aluminum and test it along with a non-baked sample. I'll post what I find. Thank you.

@FloweringElbow

4 жыл бұрын

@@andynuck1772 Cool. I'll be really interested to hear your results. If the sample is an extruded rod i suspect it may not do much... I think artificial aging works best on casting alloys... Still until you try it... good luck, Bongo.

@andynuck1772

4 жыл бұрын

@@FloweringElbow I heated a piece of this aluminum at 360°F for 5 1/2 hours and then air cooled. The piece was hardness tested along with a piece that was not baked. The baked piece actually was 3% SOFTER. On the N15 scale... Baked Average- 30.4 Non-baked- 31.6 I attribute this to the alloy composition. I'm just going to have to buy heat treated 6061 or 7075 for my project.

@FloweringElbow

4 жыл бұрын

Really nice test there Andy, thanks for sharing it with everyone :D This stuff is good to know.

Wheel alloy is ~10% Si, some Ti, and a dash of Magnesium.

Don’t quench aluminum let it cool by its self it f up the grain structure if I recall correctly

I'm curious, this scrap cast aluminum that you machined, it seemed to have a white splochy look to it, do you know why that is and also do you think that that aluminum could be polished up to a mirror finish and if not why would that be?

@FloweringElbow

2 жыл бұрын

Hi Jeff. That will be my poor pouring technique and hydrogen absorption based porosity. You would see the porosity better if it was polished - so no, it wouldn't look fantastic polished.

@bodeine454

2 жыл бұрын

@@FloweringElbow I see, so how would a person avoid the porosity and hydrogen inclusion doing this at home? Is it possible or too expensive or ???

Nice, whatis the brand and number of your lathe?

@FloweringElbow

Жыл бұрын

It's a Sieg CQ6230B/ 910 Originally from Axminster tools.

ADVICE buy a vertical handsaw with 6tp1 metal cutting, push it through in 10 secs , liked the vid, hell 5 hrs in oven cost 4 bucks here I WAS a builder alu yachts, sometimes i'd have 1000kg 5083 scrap

Now, all you need to do is throw that 3003 back into the forge, mix in a few zinc pellets and other material and try to find a formula to make 7075. :D

What about ramping up the pressure in the casting process - while the metal is liquid. Ever tried that ?

@FloweringElbow

4 жыл бұрын

Good morning Wilheln. Thanks for your comment. I have not tried that. I must admit the idea of liquid aluminium under pressure is a touch terrifying to me. I know VOG has experimented with using vacuum pumps to try to better fill molds and remove gasses... Any hypothesis as to what increased pressure would do?

@wilhelmbeck8498

4 жыл бұрын

@@FloweringElbow Well - diamonds forms while under pressure and slow cooling. If a crystalline structure develops in the aluminum - i guess both strength and "workability" would improve ? (Great videos you're uploading - thanks !)

is heat treating aluminium the same as Precipitation hardening

@FloweringElbow

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Martin, good question. Basically, yeah.

i want to heat treat it then machine it? ? what do you think? 12mm thick 600mm long by 25mm wide i also need to make it thinner at the ends how much would you leave before final finishing thickness ? (13mm? 14mm? )

@FloweringElbow

2 жыл бұрын

Heat treating at 13 or 14mm should be fine. Material should be easier to remove once heat treated as it will be less gummy...

you realize that hosing it when hot anneals it much more? i tried a piece 6 inch x 3 in a pipe, i had to turn the pipe off, it would not budge with a heavy drift and big Mer(hammer)

@matthewmoilanen2413

2 жыл бұрын

Annealing doesn't happen when water cooled as it hardens it by locking the atoms in place by cooling quickly. Annealing is accomplished by heating to a lower temperature and using a slower cooling process. Often this cooling may even be done in a medium like sand to slow the cooling even more.

I love your videos - judging by the scenery and the accent I am guessing you are from the Welsh Borders / Brecon Beacons perhaps?

@FloweringElbow

4 жыл бұрын

Good evening Codprawn. Thanks for the encouraging comments :D and also for having an amusing YT handle, it made me chuckle. Good guesses, given my parents. I grew up in mid Wales, Carmarthen way...

If you want better quality aluminum you can buy alumaweld rods and throw some in the melting proces and stur so it mixes with the normal aluminum. You will see the difference innstrenght and when machining

After heat treating like this, would it handle the heat of a combustion engine? Like a piston does? Want to take a dished piston and screw a aluminum plug on top? Thoughts?

@FloweringElbow

Жыл бұрын

No idea tbh! I guess it all depend on what alloy you have in there...

Wd isn’t very good with machining. Gallon of good cutting oil cost $35 and should last you 1-2 years if you dilute 50/50 with diesel fuel and spray it using a air pressurized can. Or you can use it straight out of the bottle with a cup and brush. Btw diesel fuel or kerosene mixed will give you amazing finish cuts. with the right tools sometimes even a mirror finish.

Do you think there would be considerable improvements in machining heat treated aluminium composite materials?

@FloweringElbow

5 жыл бұрын

Not sure. Need more information. What's the composition?

@ndudimononiwu1448

5 жыл бұрын

@@FloweringElbow I intend to use coal fly ash as reinforcement for the aluminium composite. Watching your video made me wonder what the effects of heat treating the composite on the machinability will be.

@wilhelmbeck8498

4 жыл бұрын

@@ndudimononiwu1448 It's been a year now - How was your results ?

@ndudimononiwu1448

4 жыл бұрын

@@wilhelmbeck8498 i have not been able to do cast the aluminium yet because I am still sourcing the Reinforcements

How do you get the air bubbles out

@FloweringElbow

2 жыл бұрын

With difficulty! You can bubble inert gas through the molten metal, or add various chemicals that result in similar to scrub out the hydrogen bubbles. Avoid any moisture on tools by preheating. Don't cast on humid days! Also, avoid overheating the melt. Am actually planning to cover this subject in a future video, but that's the gist...

@davidendres7808

2 жыл бұрын

@@FloweringElbow hey mate thanks for the reply what is the best temperature to pour aluminium

@FloweringElbow

2 жыл бұрын

@@davidendres7808 Hi. It depends on quite a few factors I'm afraid. If your part has lots of fine detailed features to fill for example, or if it's a mostly regular large cross-section... Also depends a lot on the alloy of aluminium you're using.

Surprised you haven't caught all kinds of hell about the chuck key...thanks for the video!

@FloweringElbow

5 жыл бұрын

Well thanks Kurt, I suspect this may be the first of a string! I actually pointed it out in the last video - and not a peep from the concerned citizenry ;)

@jacobjackson2372

5 жыл бұрын

I have no idea why people get so agro about the chuck key thing. He clearly has a gaurd that stops the lathe being turned on if the key is in...

@TheChrisey

3 жыл бұрын

I didn't even notice the key was there

So was it quenched after the oven heat treating?

@FloweringElbow

4 жыл бұрын

No.

You look like Chris Martin bro.. hahahaha love your videos

@FloweringElbow

4 жыл бұрын

lol.Thanks Rizal (I guess).

@rizalazizahmad3990

3 жыл бұрын

@@FloweringElbow My new guru.. hehe

take the key out of the chuck!

1:54 Thats what she said.

I want Allumininum Heat Treatmemt . So Pls How Much Temp. GET heat treatment Alluminium And Quench In Cool Or Hot water Tell me

Try using dedicated Aluminum cutting carbide inserts, they give afar superior finish.

@FloweringElbow

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Paul. Thanks for the tip. I took your advice and tried some inserts for aluminium the other day, and they worked really well! Thanks.

You put them in the oven at 180 C for 6 hours... But what next??? How did you cool it after the oven???

@FloweringElbow

Жыл бұрын

Just air cool. Let them stand for about 1hour before serving ;)

I was just saying to myself "that's not going to end well", and the cup broke.

Wow 😳 ....you are the cutest human being ever !!!!

You really need to drench cutting tool and part on the lathe the Finnish will be loads better im not being nasty but that finnish was a bit rough and the saw will give a far better cleaner cut aswell and your cutting tools will last long

if you cast yourself did you ever consider mixing better aluminium alloy types yourself? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7068_aluminium_alloy When i was younger and had no clue i mixed aluminium with silver, but i couldn't find any info what this does to the aluminium xD Btw be aware of the dangers from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_fume_fever i once got it and it was just one 2 or 3 breaths of that metal fume.

I'm sure you know that WD 40 is water displacement not a lubricant

@FloweringElbow

11 ай бұрын

As you say good sir, It does water displacement very well, but if you doubt that it lubricates too, try some.

@1crazypj

2 ай бұрын

Personally, I use diesel when cutting aluminium, easier to get than white spirit, way cheaper than WD40 plus a half gallon lasts a very long time

you should get in the habit of removing your chuck key from the chuck when you are not actually tightening or loosening the chuck. i can see the key in the chuck in the backgroung early on in the video. DANGER!

6

Aluminium can material is gummy.

@agapiosagapiou

2 жыл бұрын

New comments after one year!

I like the videos - super interesting so.... I'd rather you don't end up in hospital- do yourself a favour and NEVER leave the key in the chuck:)

DEAR BRITS, AlumiNUM ENDS WITH NUM, not nium. Take the one moment that is required for a normal human brain to learn how to say a word.

@FloweringElbow

4 жыл бұрын

Dear specUVdust, please take the time to consider that your brain may not be 'normal' and that such a thing might not exist. Peace, bongo.

@mm-qd1ho

2 жыл бұрын

You are an absolute idiot. Outside of the US and Canada, it is spelled aluminium. In 1990 The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) accepted aluminium as the international standard. North America is the exception, not the rule.