higher lvl dungeons are definitely easier than the lower lvl ones at this point. there’s many low lvl dungeons that are impossible to complete without a healer

@Froggsroxx

Ай бұрын

Yeah, high level dungeons are more fun because you have all your abilities, but that also makes them way esier

@Max58183

Ай бұрын

This is truly fascinating that difficulty curve is actually inversed for FFXIV. The higher your level goes, the less challenging they become. Everything is handled by oGCDs and healer can enjoy their exciting 1 button damage rotation.

@cutejustice

Ай бұрын

@@Froggsroxxright. Problem being that the only class using their entire kits are dps

@Melon-Lord

Ай бұрын

That’s partial because low level healers don’t have instant heals but also because of tank self healing abilities

@elusivejumper

Ай бұрын

By high level you mean lvl cap right? Because most ShB and EW dungeons are notorious for being hard to heal with casual tanks.

I'd rather they increase the support value of healer. A haste spell would be welcome.

@SambreakerSasaki

Ай бұрын

Honestly just make healers the, you know, support class. Give them bunch of buffs to throw to the party when not healing or dps, give them 1 or 2 more shiny dps buttons while you're at it. That will shut these babies up and make the game more fun and enjoyable. Who doesn't like to see big numbers get even bigger?

@crashzone6600

Ай бұрын

@SambreakerSasaki it would probably be nice to tie them to dps as a proc button. So as you dps, you occasionally proc a haste, or crit button that needs to be pressed. In general though enough support to the damage that tank and dps do should be added, so it is compensated for even if you don't bring a dps instead of a healer. But I don't think adding buttons in general to a healers dps rotation is a good thing, especially since they want to consolidate rotations as it is. Plus healers already have button real-estate issues, so to add more buttons only means that some buttons need to be taken away. The ones saying they want a more complicated dps rotation, should probably just go play dps or tank. Don't get me wrong, I would like it if the one button would be changed into a one button combo button like they have in pvp, so atleast we get variation in the spell effects, because I would simply like to look at more than one spell for the visual effects.

@Tihamatt

Ай бұрын

@@SambreakerSasaki hmm babies, when a whole community has been shafted for 5 years, all this comment did was make you sound so ignorant

@SambreakerSasaki

Ай бұрын

@Tihamatt oh trust me I know about that. Still calling them babies.

@yeetusdeleetus4697

Ай бұрын

@@SambreakerSasaki Typical grey parsing limsa sitter response. Go be bad at games somewhere else and let us has a video game thanks

I’m like 50/50. I want dungeons to be harder, but at the same time it will cause more friction. There was a time in ARR where dungeons were too difficult for the average player and they’d have to get nerfed. It wasn’t incompleteable, it was just a slog. Like imagine 40-50 mins in your expert roulette everyday. And sadly for healers to be impacted more directly, it means that the entire party needs to take MORE damage

@cresscaketv8419

Ай бұрын

You brought up a great point that only people who played ARR really know and understand. ARR dungeons literally had a learning curve in them that slowly forced you to get better understanding with classes. The Stone Vigil being one of the first ones to really test your skills as your roles in the group. Mobs hit hard, interrupts made a real difference, and don’t even get started in the bosses and the mechanics that were both exciting and stressful because it wasn’t just a tank and spank. You needed the tank to position and the group watching the window and firing by cannons to stop the incoming damage that would wipe your party along with tornadoes. It could be messy and stressful but so damn satisfying when you won. I see people talking about they need to up damage but, honestly I think what they need to do is add more diverse mechanics back in the game for bosses and add mob density/variation back in as you work your ways through the dungeons would go a very long way in giving feeling for not only healers but the entire party. Will it make dungeons potentially longer, maybe. Would it make the dungeons feel more meaningful and exciting for most people, absolutely.

@JathraDH

Ай бұрын

@@cresscaketv8419 The problem is they have backed themselves into a corner they can't escape from because such complex mechanics are incompatible with the trust system. That is why many existing mechanics were removed from dungeons to allow the NPC's to complete them. To enact such a change would necessitate removing the trust system or substantially improving the AI scripting in it, which I guess they can't do since they had to remove so many easy mechanics for it already. They have made their bed and now we all have to lay in it. I have said it before and I will say it again. The trust system is the single worst thing they have done to this game.

@avrax3497

Ай бұрын

A not so difficult fix for this would be to being back at least one optional dungeon per patch. Being optional, that one would not have Trusts, so they would have more freedom around how to design them.

@cresscaketv8419

Ай бұрын

@@JathraDH I’ll be honest, I totally forgot about the trust system being the issue. I know it worked for simple mechanics like in dzaelmal darkhold or wonders palace. Wonders palace had the simple mechanic of being terrified of the tonberrys and what they could do to you and did to the party. but let’s go a different direction where the trust system doesn’t matter but we have seen the same instance. Crystal Tower was filled with mechanics that absolutely wiped out the entire raids and they did the same thing with them where the trust system isn’t involved. How many people remember the behemoth fight alone before they made needed it to what it is. You had the electrified floor that would wipe out the team if it was not controlled by 4 people Continuously ontop of the boss that tanks normally were terrified to fight because the table flip alone would potentially one shot the tank if they were not prepared. The flooding of adds along with a second mini boss that needed to be tanked off to the side to make sure he wouldn’t wipe the raid as well and people died a lot lol but once again felt satisfying and accomplishment and people continued going in. You are right, part of the issue is the trust system for dungeons but they also did it throughout all the content that system never touched. Maybe the key would be to make hard modes of the dungeons like they did in ARR where trust system can’t be used or program ai into doing the mechanics…either way they need to figure out something for the group of people that enjoy that type of play without going straight into ultimates. Something the day to day keeps people entertained and that challenge and excitement.

@JathraDH

Ай бұрын

@@cresscaketv8419 Yeah. I think old wanderers palace would be a major issue with the trust system too because the DPS is so low with trusts you would get nommed by the tonberry lmao. I remember that being a desperate race back in the day. I really did like old ARR dungeons back in the day they were fun, but I think they are simply beyond the player base they have cultivated over the subsequent years now. Now, you could make the trust versions of dungeons be super easy and then have the non trust versions be harder but then that runs into issues with farming via trusts and so on. I think honestly trusts should be a 1 time story mode clear only and after that you can't repeat them personally. It's an MMO and MMOs should have at least minimal interaction with other players IMHO.

As much as I support this strike, I don't think it will be very effective because as more people strike, the longer the queue times for everyone else. The longer the queue times for everyone else, the more incentive there is for DPS to switch to healing just for the fast queues. But I suppose it still communicates a sentiment.

@Jexxin

Ай бұрын

A lot of people are going to want to level the new classes. Can't do that as easily if there's no healers for the roulettes.

@dfloriza

Ай бұрын

Bingo. Other people will just fill in for the roles, really. I do think it will spur changes in the long run, but in the immediate future, you're just going to have a whole expansion where new people are filling as healer because they just want to clear the content.

@Hasediel

Ай бұрын

​@@dflorizaThat is assuming a DPS main can heal! lol

@LuminateTheWorld

Ай бұрын

I don't think near enough people will actually partake in this "strike" I think the vast majority of people who play 14 won't even know a strike is taking place. When I first heard about this, i laughed. Then when i saw some people were serious, i laughed even harder. I laughed because most of the outrage is being mis-placed. this has nothing to do with healers, nor tanks and their design, but everything to do with dungeons and how they are being designed. I agree that healers are boring with their class design, but I do not have an answer on how to change it. I do not think tanks self healing is a problem. Even if you took that away, I'd still be bored out of my mind healing expert roulette. I just fit a few ogcds in between Gravity spam on astro, or holy spam on whm etc. To me, the dungeons are the problem and how they have become too formulaic and boring. Only time it's a challenge is if the tank doesn't know what he/she's doing and or the dps is very lacking in the dps department. I've always said. Bring back hard mode dungeons and add some new options to roulettes. Make it so the hard mode gives better rewards, more exp etc. but much more challenging. You can do crazy pulls in between bosses and the bosses do savage like mechanics. Nothing to crazy, but the mechs can be layered basically. Problem solved. the healers now have a job in dungeons again, and the casuals/ msq only players won't have to cry about it being to hard.. Idk what people are complaining about otherwise.. too me, this strike is just complaining for the sake of complaining. If you are bored with healer, then do harder content... I've never seen a savage clear without echo done with no healers, same for ex's on content etc. OBVIOUSLY if you go back two expansions and do a savage fight, healers aren't needed. this should only be a discussion for current content.

@marioharrer9999

Ай бұрын

@@Hasediel dungeon? easilly

the higher you go in levels the dungeons should be more threatening. It's not like in wow where you can make an alt and reach endgame in 5 hours of playtime without entering a dungeon. In FF you will go through a series of dungeons wether you like it or not so there should be a learning and challenge curve. And yeah i think there should be more unavoidable damage mechanics that would require a healer and make the off-heal abilities of other jobs A) Weaker and B) situational "well the FF14 msq is 400 hours long, and you will not be required at all until you reach the endgame and have the option to do experts if you really really want" this ain't gonna cut it.

@red5robb1

Ай бұрын

make it so every boss and some mobs auto attacks gives doom that can only be Esuna'd LOL

@Hasediel

Ай бұрын

People need to understand this is an MMO, not a story driven RPG. Hell, even in that genre, if you don't have the skill to beat a story boss, you ain't gonna progress through the story! Why do I say this? Because I've seen tons of people use the casual base of players as an excuse for the lack of skill required to clear dungeons. They say since most people play for the MSQ, SE shouldn't do ANYTHING that would jeopardize "casuals" progressing through the story.

@RavenL1337

Ай бұрын

@@Hasedielrifgtly so! SOOO SQ should NOT LISTENT TO THE SMALL SMALL SUPPOSED ELITE PLAYERS cuz you don’t bring money to the table!😊

@Hasediel

Ай бұрын

@@RavenL1337 First of all, learn to write. Secondly, I'm not an elite player. I'm a casual player. Thirdly, they are listening to us. Yoshi P is looking for ways to make casual content harder in 8.0.

@TheSilverwolf1001

Ай бұрын

@@RavenL1337 you're comment doesn't make sense..... so do you want healers to matter or not...?

I get that dungeons are meant to be easy content.. but i don't think it's so much to ask that by the time youve got to Endwalker youve learned that orange is bad and might get killed for standing in it. Just have them do a LITTLE bit more damage lol. Make attacks that can be avoided give vulns or dots. Im not asking for dungeons to be extreme level, just maybe more interesting.

@1337penguinman

Ай бұрын

You say that but I don't know how many times I've died to Doom on the first boss of Lunar Subterrane greeding just a little too hard and the healer completely zoning out.

@dustinhatfield8373

Ай бұрын

@@1337penguinman they zone out because there are left pressing one button for 20 minutes straight

@TheOneGreat

Ай бұрын

​@@1337penguinmanYou say that but.... I don't care. Was busy watching KZread because I'm bored out of my mind playing healer.

@erasablefallen7223

29 күн бұрын

@@TheOneGreat yeahhh, I have something playing in the background and kinda zoned out more often than not as a healer lol

@TheOneGreat

29 күн бұрын

@@erasablefallen7223 Sometimes I press 1 so much I look at an emptying HP bar accident and think oh right... fuck. xD

The worst feeling is when you die on the final boss of a dungeon as a healer and then the dps die and the tank still solos the boss for the next 10+ minutes

@Cyrus_Nagisa

29 күн бұрын

not something any tank can do, this going around that "anyone" can do it is pretty stupid.

@billybones1718

29 күн бұрын

must of been a warrior because a DRK cant do that

@user-th6bx6ex6k

29 күн бұрын

Same here, only WAR or maybe PLD cause GNB and DRK can't do that shit

@N7Sephy

28 күн бұрын

@@user-th6bx6ex6k I did that before with GNB, but it's an exception, most times can´t do it without a healler, this strike is pushing for something in the end will only get the game worst for the majority of people, so probably Yoshi-P wont do it, if you feel the game is not pleasing you anymore just stop playing, because if you buy the Expansion and pay your sub, that strike is just proof of stupidity, Square wont loose money and you pay for not play. But please continues with the Strike, less people loging in = less quewe on launch day for me, so go ahead and stay offline, at least for a few weeks.

@usualrain7082

28 күн бұрын

I did this as a DRK before so every tank can do it

What's funny to me is that while all the healers are complaining about their 1-button DPS rotation, so many players are begging for an option to make all combos just 1 button for DPS like in PvP. I know it's not the same thing, but it just feels like a categorical "The game is never X- enough for Y players" type of divide that we're caught in the middle of. On a serious note, one easy way to necessitate healers in content is to bring Esuna back into relevance. Tanks can't Esuna. Bards get like one every 30 seconds or w/e. Sure it's not the "super interesting dps rotation" that some healers want, but it creates specific situations that parties without healers can't overcome, or at least will have a much harder time overcoming. Some attacks in Endwalker dungeons gave Esuna-able Doom stacks when you got hit by them. Why not make that a straight mechanic? Because no dungeon has in the past? Well if you lock yourself out of future mechanics just because players haven't been trained on them then that's a forever problem.

@freakindamnshiki

Ай бұрын

Why you want more things to esuna? The healers i get don't even esuna the little things there are to esuna 🤷🏼‍♂️

@avrax3497

Ай бұрын

​@@freakindamnshikiProbably because sometimes it is not even worth pressing that button. If my party fails to dodge an AoE that inflicta a poison dot, most of the time an AoE regen will top them off despite taking periodic damage due to the poison, with just one press of a button versus 2 or 3 if I decided to esuna instead. We need more impactful debuffs to make esuna have more impact.

@metalgearbear9748

Ай бұрын

Going through a combo action using one button and spamming one button for one action are different things. One you have to juggle around other things you are doing, the other you just spam whenever.

@HuNtOziO

Ай бұрын

It's the animation variety. combos being the same button like in PVP is fine as you still get visual variety, thats the fun bit, nothing to do with the buttons. Imagine having to press 12 different buttons for your damage rotation but all 12 buttons had the exact same animation, it would be boring AF. healers just need more damage abilities with fun and varied animations, hell even just give them a 1-2-3 combo and that would go along way, with maintaining a DOT still and 1/2/3 damage off gcd's, basically half a dps's damage kit. either that or make bosses deal way more damage and/or random damage so healers have to actually heal with gcd's instead of purely o gcd's and spamming 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 endlessly.

@gooman2

Ай бұрын

"The Healers gameplay feel too alike to one another! That's why Healers should play exactly like caster dps instead!"

In HW, the healing resources are tighter than now, but we have The Vault and Alexander Savage. And now we can have tank to solo at least 1/3 of the boss HP. The difficulty balance is obviously fall off on the different end.

@crowevil4658

Ай бұрын

I have solo tanked bosses during HW when 3.0 was the current expansion. It’s been like this. People continue to cry about the game remaining the same. ARR was the last time normal content had difficulty, especially turns (8P raids). But even then, those early dungeons didn’t have a lot of depth because 1-49 didn’t allow for the “full toolkit.” If you are talking about Savage, wasn’t it Pandaemonium the raid killer. P8s had people crying too. I don’t think savage has a place in this conversation, but to that point, healers are required for savage and you can feel it.

@airynod

Ай бұрын

@@crowevil4658 I think most people are talking about how common/how doable it is, and the cause of the strike is much more than "Boo hoo, Warrior can tank anything without me." I read a JP Blog post about this, and it compares the average skill usage of SCH in Savage. In HW, the most used were Adloquium (13.73%), Bio(9.01%), Succor(9.01%), Broil(8.58%) In SB, Broil II (24.14%), Adloquium (11.91) In ShB, Broil III (27.27%), Ruin II(16.84), Succor(10.01) In EW, Broil IV(47.14%) You can see the problem is that the need for healing has decreased heavily. However, we (healers) don't have many things to do instead of spamming the only attack spell. Sure, there is more depth to the problem. The reason why I bring up The Vault and Alexander(savage) is we were healing our asses off to keep the team alive in many cases because we did not have as many healing resources as we are now. (Also, they messed up the difficulty in a sense) There are many capacity for them to slightly raise the difficulty for everybody, because as a WHM main, I can easily use Regen on the tank +Medica2, Asylum and lily instant heal while falling asleep and everyone will be alive. P.S.: As a healer who plays FF14 solo most of the time, the strike doesn't affect me, but I understand the sentiment.

@avrax3497

Ай бұрын

​@@crowevil4658not only that but I clearly remember doing no healer dungeon runs back in ARR too. It wasn't as easy back then, but still very possible despite what little toolkits every jobs had.

@crowevil4658

Ай бұрын

@@avrax3497 I hear you for sure. But that was never a pass for me on Aurum vale or that one hard dungeon with the temple and demons. Lol I’m still traumatized by aurum even though it’s nerfed to the ground.

@airynod

Ай бұрын

​@@crowevil4658 ​ KZread hid my original reply :/ I know it is doable during HW. In HW, healers have fewer healing skills, and we are probably busy with healing. And now, we just need to spam DoT, and the only attack spell. There is almost nothing a HoT skill can't handle in the dungeon. If one HoT can't, two HoT! I saw many people say that it is "our" fault for making the current situation(too easy, too boring). I see their point, but it ignores too much context. For example, Cleric Stance is too much in HW, but we are almost a Green DPS in the latter expansion. I don't think more DPS kits or even slightly buffing healers' HP and damage is too much to ask if that is the direction the dev team is going. Sure, I think WAR is too OP in many senses, but a big nerf wouldn't solve the problem. The relative difficulty of the dungeon to players' skillset can definitely be a little bit harder. PS: The healer strike is such a premature response, in my opinion. Obviously, Yoshi P will not do anything big before 8.0, as he suggests there will be a big job revamp. As a healer main, I understand the sentiment, though.

I did the lunar subterrane dungeon last night to level up my SAM. On the last boss, our healer died on the first set of purple orbs after the first duplicitous battery. It was their first time, so none of us really griped on it. But after their death, the tank (WAR), other dps (DRG) and I cleared the boss. The WAR was healing us both with back to back nascent flash. There were some close calls, and we would have failed if any of us got hit by a mechanic, but we cleared it just fine. Afterward, I started thinking about the healer strike. In sav/ext content, healers are recommended unless you're one of those Xenosys types. In ult content, they're required, hard stop. But in high level dungeons (level 81+), it feels like they're more of a suggestion, especially if you have a really good tank (preferably WAR/PLD); DRK will struggle. But with a WAR/PLD, as long as you're not standing in the stupid, they'll have your heals covered. Healers make dungeon runs comfortable, but are they absolutely required? I think not, and that's a problem.

@kitsuneprincess4637

13 күн бұрын

The Omega Protocol (Ultimate) was cleared without a healer, so... Healers not eating well.

For right now, all I really want to see is for them to take the attack spells and abilities the healers already have and increase how often we can use them. Don’t lock these cool new attacks behind 2 minute cooldowns, but make them regular parts of the gameplay that you interact with often. Give Sages DoTs different durations. Rework its Addersting to be more useful. These aren’t massive reworks, but adjustments that could go a long way toward making Dawntrail enjoyable while we wait for 8.0. I really want to play Sage in the upcoming field operations, but I dread having nothing to do but spam Dosis till my fingers fall off.

@tenjiechin

Ай бұрын

"Don’t lock these cool new attacks behind 2 minute cooldowns" that's every job

@Orih9

Ай бұрын

@@tenjiechin At least the other jobs actually have gameplay for the rest of the 2 minutes. Healers get to spam glare until their keyboard disintegrates.

@adambaker4590

28 күн бұрын

@@Orih9 Actual gameplay? 1-2-3 for solo targets or 1-2-1-2 for aoe packs isn't the riveting gameplay you think it is...

@Orih9

28 күн бұрын

@@adambaker4590 tanks only have a single target and aoe combo and literally nothing else?

@adambaker4590

28 күн бұрын

@@Orih9 Healers only have Glare and nothing else? What are we arguing about here? Tanking isn't magnitudes higher in terms of difficulty. All classes, even DPS, are pretty basic at their skill floor. There are also ways to optimize them for harder content. This is over dungeons... in dungeons, as a tank, I spam 1-2-1-2 and maybe hit a mitigation. Dps spam their aoe stuff... Healers cast their one or two damage stuff and use some heals and shields. It's not meant to be super engaging content to begin with. If you want to "feel needed" in a group, there are savage raids, extreme trials, and ultimates. Or run a dungeon without a tank and just 3 dps... The only limitation to the fun you can have are your own expectations.

For you and alot of the playerbase who came later than me have missed a huge part of where the problem first started and its also the reason this strike is incredibly stupid. It started back in 2.0 with cleric stance. Now I loved cleric stance but it wasnt easy to juggle dps and healing when you had to turn it on and off but hey it was unique and there was no way you could just regen a tank and holy spam back then without a good tank. The also added dungeons like The Burn which was extremely hard for beginner healers. What I am saying is everytime the devs implemented something with healers the playerbase would scream about it being too hard. Well now we are here in Endwalker and even a brain dead monkey could heal. I for one will be healing in DT mostly because admittedly im lazy but also for that nice q time im gonna get from all the absent healers. The devs will probably change something but if history repeats itself it'll just be something the playerbase will hate again and then be changed again until we reach a point where healing is unbearable.

We just need more damage buttons on healer. Like imagine if they changed WHM lily system, where we get 3 damage lily and get 1 huge heal lily

@Densuii

Ай бұрын

I'd love for blood lilly to charge a bit ever time you cast glare, that way pressing one would amount to a big number every now and then. Nothing huge, but it might be more fun.

@JathraDH

Ай бұрын

Pleaseno it took them over 2 expansions to even make lilies work properly at all and be worth using. I don't want them messing with them any more. 95% chance they will just break them again.

@o0rolyat0o

17 күн бұрын

For real. Healers should access to the damage buttons they already have more often. Untie sch energy drain from aetherflow stacks, just make it have its own fast cooldown for example. And on top of that, nerf the self heals on tanks so that healers actually have to heal.

The point of the strike is to call Yoshi P's attention to the issues. 5 years and "healer feedback" threads have been ignored, and a "healer strike" has a catchy tag to it, which amplifies the problem even more. The strike doesn't have to work, it's just to make the devs aware they need to start looking into it.

@sheiks65

Ай бұрын

Exactly. I don't think people are really gonna strike but "Strike" is a huge buzzword that has already caught all the big ffxiv creators' attention. Yoshi P will take notice. He said he felt the game became too easy and people still feel like it hasn't been addressed. If the dev team ignores it now, it'll only make people more upset

@Draylin41

Ай бұрын

I feel like with a lot of devs this wouldn't really go anywhere since it's not really something that's going to get most players to stop subscribing. Many have even said they'll play the game as another job. With someone like Yoshi P though, it's abundantly clear he's paying attention and will look for solutions. However, I think those changes will be a lot slower than anyone anticipates. I think the only thing he's likely to do right away is address the concerns and ask for our patience.

@PunkFiddler

Ай бұрын

Time will tell for a FFXIV exodus to happen if they will not properly address this and their competitors did it.

@purplefreedom1631

29 күн бұрын

What issue? Easy duties are easy? Do harder content lol

@avi3365

28 күн бұрын

It just sounds childish to me... Not catchy. Also if people don't follow up (they won't) then you've just pulled your own teeth

i was leveling GNB through msq for the past two days, and I encountered ThReE times where the healer died at 45% and the last of us are all down to like 1/3 of HP, and i can manage ti heal both my self and ALL the other two.DPSs back to full.(With their dps healing and lifesteal ofcoures). 3 time in 2 days, in duty rulet during msq, when most of us are.first time seeing the boss. They realy need to do smthing 'bout this.

I agree healer should feel more useful during dungeon. But to be fair, i have also complete high level dungeon missing one DPS or even when tank get DC and we pull smaller pack and still finish the dungeon. So making dungeons harder as a whole where missing a member make it extremely difficult to complete will also make healer useful again😊

@freakindamnshiki

Ай бұрын

I did praetorium as a monk tank just with a sch healing me... We did the whole ass dungeon

You can also do Frontline roulette. If you queue as healer in Frontline or RivalWings PVP you can swap jobs after getting in and get exp on the job you queued for. I don't play tank or healer so I used that for them.

I’ve been really quiet about this issue for a long time in the community itself. That said, there are very obviously issues with healers in general. As a casual/story focused player, I have a few observations that very often slip by the hardcore player base, which seems to be the far more vocal voice in the community in general. First of all, I wanted to say that, as a trinity based system, healers work as intended currently with their kits; they are 99% healing utilities with one or two DPS buttons total. I think, as we gain more and more levels, we see this happening more: extra OGCD heals we almost never need to use in base dungeons, more potency upgrades so we need to cure less,more GCD heals, etc. I think the solution would be to transition the trinity away from a “healer” role and into a “support” role. Instead of giving healers more and more healing tools, why not give us some kind of enhancing, debuffing, and more damage focused options? I work with mostly the Trust NPCs now, and I can say that dungeons are long and slow. The majority of the damage comes from me spamming a single attack button and it’s just… boring. I don’t feel the level of engagement as in, say, FFXI where a healer/support based job has to apply enfeeblements consistently while also healing and enhancing party members. Yes, it’s an entirely different system, nothing at all like this game, etc, but I felt the importance of my job far more. In this game, where jobs are homogenized to fit into one of three roles, I think it’s more important to feel job identity and role identity. For me, right now the healer role feels like a generic title we are slapped with. Basically means we will deal less damage than any other job, and will have almost all of our kit focused around giving HP back to the party. I think it would be nice to have other things to do than simply what our role has labeled us, like returning protect/shell to players, stoneskin, paralysis, etc. That felt engaging. I can definitely agree that we all have different solutions, and we need to come together and compromise on a solution we can live with, because rampant speculation can only lead to bad decisions from the development team as a whole.

@Draylin41

Ай бұрын

I get a little of this feeling playing Astrologian and while the healer role doesn't need to be more homogenized, they could definitely take some of the aspects of buffing that job has and find a way to spin it for the other healers. Sure, I've been annoyed for years at only spamming one button during casual content as White Mage, so adding a few new things dps wise would be great but I do agree that the way to go is more support abilities and less burst heals or healing amplifiers.

@SomeCameo

Ай бұрын

probably because buffs and debuffs go against the core design and with how tightly controlled content is they will have to be designated as DPS.

@sakuram69

Ай бұрын

@@SomeCameo I kind of agree, but with buffs and debuffs, they could give each healer entirely unique ones so each job has its own unique utility outside of healing, as well as give them a sense of proactive support. Every job already does damage of some kind, so using all of your abilities, even when their intended purpose isn’t necessarily required, usually gives a net DPS gain whereas healers do not. As a player who has been a sch/smn main since 2.0, I literally need to look up all of my healing tools on the other healers anytime I play just because the sheer number of healing utilities I have I almost never need to use. Why not just simply shift additional effects to these abilities that either enhance the party or somehow cause detrimental effects to enemies? Quite frankly, I do not remember what at least 60% of what the whm kit does. I can’t even remember the names of their abilities. I feel if we were to change the trinity role name away from “healer” and shift it to “support” it would open many new doors for future jobs as well that get their base healing kit early on, but focus more on different kinds of utilities rather than just extra DPS buttons.

@SomeCameo

Ай бұрын

@@sakuram69 yeah i totally agree with you, support would give so much flexibility for jobs AND it could justify some of the self sustain tanks get.

@sakuram69

Ай бұрын

@@SomeCameo I just think adding some really unique twists to the insane amount of healing abilities we already have would go a long way to job identity. I think ast is already at the cusp of this idea, but because our role is just simply “healer” rather than “support” they shy away from its true potential. I mean, I’m not saying remove healers; quite the contrary. Give support jobs full healing kits, but also a variety of proactive support utilities in addition. I remember back before Endwalker how everyone praised smn damage as being top tier, because the DoT damage added up to being extremely significant in the end. The job didn’t feel like smn to me at all, but some kind of awkward semi-pet class that functioned as smn only in name. However, sch also suffered from the removal of the array of DoT spells and abilities. It began to play exactly like whm for me in that I no longer had to manage DoTs and spread them around a group of enemies, but instead had a new AoE ability I had to spam in the middle of a pull to be effective. For me, sch lost its identity. If we were to move “healer” to “support,” however, I feel like we could further enhance these jobs to new identities, even whm which is the traditional healer job through every single FF game.

This'll be the funniest reason for xeno to not get to go to 8.0 media tour Sad though I was happy he got invited to this one

I think the problem is not the difficulty but human psyche. People think they want more difficult content but at the same time try their best to skip or at least lower the difficulty of the content they're playing at the moment. Take Ultimates as an example, totally optional, rewards are just cosmetic, yet the huge majority of players use third-party tools to artificially lower the difficulty of said content while at the same time doing things like gatekeeping potential group "colleagues" based on performance that is measured by said third-party tools, all in the name of trying your best to make fights as easy as possible in order to reduce any kind of "waste of time" to the minimum, so if CU3 decides to increase the difficulty of roulette content, you can be damn sure people will start to engage in behaviours akin to what you currently see in WoW dungeons, like players getting votekicked out of activities because their class/job isn't the strongest and things like that and that kind of behaviour should be left out of mandatory content, like MSQ-related dungeons. Again, people love pushing the idea that they want casual content to be harder, but at the same time most of the community nowardays try so hard to skip said difficulty on optional content, that they outright try their best to avoid doing said content, and if they decide to engage with it, they have no problem taking the risk of breaking the ToS if that means making things a bit easier for themselves or if doing that saves them some time, thats the reality.

@ravindrarambarran6177

28 күн бұрын

You arent wrong but when casual content is SO casual that the healer's job is better done by one tank and can be done suboptimally by 2 of the 3 remaining tanks, i think making it harder is entirely justified. I dont think people are going to start vote kicking because someone is playing bard in expert roulette just because they, lets say make healers have to use a gcd heal 3 times per dungeon run rather than the current 0, for example. No one is saying to make regular dungeons savage criterion and as a warrior, personally i kinda side with the healers on this. I dislike queueing for expert roulette cause healers are just sub-par dps in dungeons. They serve no other role to me there.

I did have a giggle at the story zepla told in the beginning of this part of the saga. If we make healers more mandatory for easy content, you would punish the tank and dps if you have a poor healer. I'm 100% for adding complexity in harder content such as extremes, savage, ultimates, but normal raids and dungeons, I truly don't see the reason to making healers mandatory. It gives plenty of leeway if any particular role is playing poorly. Good healers can cover bad tanks. Good tanks can cover bad healers.

@jlGenozzV

Ай бұрын

I expect the player even on normal raid to know what they are doing. Normal dungeons being kinda easy is fine they are mandatory after all. But having no healer clear on raids shouldn't be a thing

@christhagod

Ай бұрын

Then why not remove all roles from the game? Why not remove tanks and healers and make the entire game DPS if the trinity is not needed, the whole idea of coddling healers so hard that 90 dungeons can be done without them is so dumb especially when they have such a terrible kit with too many heals. People say healer should heal but then why does tank get full damage rotations, why not give them two damage buttons as well and make them have a metric shit ton of defensive buffs after all their job is to tank not dps. Jesus duty support is right there turn that into the brainless easy mode and make dungeons with other people mandatory for all roles there they can do all the content but an entire role isnt removed from the game.

@Emolga91

Ай бұрын

@@christhagod Honestly, you know what? Sure. I just did lunar subterrene without a tank because the tank got upset at the healer early pulling, and left after the second boss got pulled and we did it without a tank with zero deaths. We don't need more than 1 support in a dungeon, so remove it. Why do we need tanks? #tankstrike

@purplefreedom1631

29 күн бұрын

​at least your DPS did DPS, I was stuck in the dead ends where the bard didn't use songs or stormbite, #getridofDPS

Party chat be like, "Oops sorry falling asleep haha" *slowly turns to look down upon* "...How dare you suggest our perfect game might not be perfect. Repent to Yoship by buying cash shop items."

In other games, the role of healer has been replaced with more of a specialized role: disabler, escape, initiator, or general support. I'm all for the evolution of white mage to time mage, wizard, priest, or oracle.

Even though they're all long cooldowns, Dawntrail is really the first time they've *added* DPS spells to healer damage profiles. I know it still isn't that fun or even at a tank level of involvement but that should be praised so they continue to go in that direction of giving you more buttons to press since you are DPSing most of the time anyway, even in light of the strike

what if we started to look for what mechanics we can ignore so we can dps, rather than waiting adn standing there not damaging..... then the healer heals after?

@awworrell

Ай бұрын

if only.

I think we hit the nail on the head. You can do dungeons with all tanks, or all heals, or all DPS. No one class is “needed”. But it comes down to efficiency, as Zepla pointed out. Yeah you can clear without one of the roles, but you’re gonna have to have convoluted party makeups and/or it’s gonna take much more time to complete. Going through story you don’t mind taking your time, but once the time grind hits, you’re glad that sweet spot party makeup exists, where you can finish the dungeon as intended with lightning-fast effficiancy. Side note, my SO and I will be strike breaking. So heals will be available

2:00 I feel like thats fine for paladin. Its part of their class fantasy, and job that used to have its base classes be WAR/WHM. I don't think its fine for the other tanks.

While it's more than just dungeons with the issue, when I did Endwalker MSQ for first time I decided to do MSQ on Paladin and one friend was a monk and the other an astrologian, but.. the issue was becoming quite clear, in some dungeons and such the party would wipe to mechanics, it's mostly when the Astrologian died to mechanics and that that the dps would follow after from raidwides, it didn't make the boss more challenging for me, it was a bit slower, but I still killed it, it was before the Paladin rework but even now Paladin is more than capable, with Warrior just being completely broken, it's kind of crazy as well seeing videos of ToP clears done without Healers too.

@elusivejumper

Ай бұрын

PLD has more heals now after the rework.

Them not redesigning jobs until 8.0 is just so incredibly disappointing tbh. They’ve heard homogenized jobs as a complaint since EW, and the answer they gave to that is “Please wait 2.5 more years” yeeeeesh..

@johnsonspark171

Ай бұрын

FFXVI should have been the start of a new MMO. 14 is really lookin' old and raggedy

@DeusGamez

Ай бұрын

@@johnsonspark171 don't hold your breath they are not going to take the risk with their precious shares and finances anytime soon ffxiv is the only thing keeping them afloat right now and its also gathered a cult like following so this is unfortunately what you're stuck with until people realize its not all that great but its just good enough to make you want to return on occasions

Healers aren't healers anymore. We are dps more than anything. We heal a little. Now they are adding healing abilities to not healer classes. Why are we even healers?

I am changing over to healer for my static in dawntrail, i will still be doing the msq as a reaper, then switching over to healer whm/ast ( still not full decided). But will be spamming dungeons as a healer to get it preped and geared.

As a returning player who just wants do do daily roulette and dungeons but get no ques for hours is heart breaking, i get the problem but it doesnt make it less sad

They should give tank stance a skill like fuxuan in HSR,where they take a percentage of pre mitigated damage from the entire party. Tanks health is always dropping requiring a healer, DPS can shrug off more damage moving party along quicker, and tanks can be the proper leader of the party and be using defensive abilities more. Plus no party no problem tanks can still solo content no more incoming extra damage.

Thankfully I never noticed this being an issue; had a healer in every duty I attempted with other players; even ones that can be completed with duty support. I read that they were nerfing the summoner's healing too but thankfully that never happened; I still have access to my resurrections ability and even a new healing ability (although not very effecting as INT is my primary stat instead of MIND).

in most normal content whenever i heal i have almost nothing to do healing wise like some people said in lower level dungeons just by design i do more healing but as i have been leveling and doing higher level dungeons those heal buttons slowly get used less

The issue is that the dungeons became so laser precision planned that everything is calculable, which means an optimized group that knows what it is doing never will have pressure put on it to demand healing. This is even true in savage since the only points in savage healers heal are planned so that the healer refills everyones HP bar, such as after a big aoe attack or the tank eats a big tank buster. Every job got too good at what it does, from tanks holding aggro to dps being able to focus on their max damage rotations. The healers point in the design of an MMO was to deal with random imperfections in the game plan.

@NabsterHax

27 күн бұрын

"the only points in savage healers heal are planned so that the healer refills everyones HP bar" You can say the same thing about DPS and Tank rotations. Unless you're playing a job with procs, the buttons you press and the order you press them in is exactly the same every single pull. "The healers point in the design of an MMO was to deal with random imperfections in the game plan." I disagree. You certainly can design healers like this, and from what I understand this is how they work in games like WoW. It was also more the case in ARR where bosses had things like untelegraphed TBs and raid damage. But there's absolutely no rule to say this is the way things need to work. Healers do their job, like every role. If they fuck it up (in hard content), you fail the fight, just like every other role. Similarly, you can do easy content like dungeons without DPS and without Tanks just fine. This is a silly complaint.

@Yurikan

26 күн бұрын

@@NabsterHax This is why I used the past tense in the statement about healers. The primary reason people designed healers around dealing with imperfections is that people are not perfect and designing fights constantly across all instances to intentionally function at set times is taxing. So taxing that in FFXIV, they had to basically kill the capability of overworld mobs to be any kind of threat for this to work. This same thing happens to older dungeons as well until they redesigned them. They also trivialized the operation of controlling monsters to reduce randomness in who gets hit and turned all major damaging effects into telegraphed attacks. This design is ultimately what causes people problems as healers because now the only point of a healing job is to push a button at a set time and participate in the same thing as a dps otherwise. FFXIV doesn't need a healing role, it just needs a role that happens to have a major support skill around healing others up after a big hit with the rest of the kit basically being a damage rotation.

Should a healer be bad at the dungeon u mentioned??

I’ll be leveling my healers still I don’t feel the point to strike but I’ll take advantage of the lack of healers to get tomes faster

I do understand what they are saying but I don't know how much it's going to change because all it means to me is when doing the MSQ I'll just need to use duty support. High end content is still going to need healers.

For me, the situation is complicated, to say the least. I believe the community hasn't yet realized that besides continuing with just one attack button, they didn't even want to modify this attack. In other words, we'll continue with the same Broil IV/Glare 3 for three years, and to me, that's the saddest part of it all. It's truly a total disregard for the class. I think it should be mandatory to have at least an evolution of the skill, a new animation, something. But they did nothing. It's very frustrating

Healers are pretty useless on boss encounters, I don't think anyone had ever doubted that.

@elusivejumper

Ай бұрын

You can say the same for every role on casual content. Some DPSs are so bad that I deal more damage with Tanks and Healers and this is not a reason for a DPS strike because casual content has no DPS checks. The strike is just stupid, you still need healers for the real battle content of the game.

@hugoboncar

Ай бұрын

@@elusivejumper well, I think it's important for people to exercise their right to strike. I agree with the strike even. I'm playing a 4 button dungeon at lvl 90 because being a heale is just being a terrible DPS with utility. A few heals here and their, and I'm just spamming AoEs. It's boring.

@yeetusdeleetus4697

Ай бұрын

@@elusivejumper Nah you're just a garbage player who has never done any real content and has no idea what you're talking about. Welcome to FFXIV, Endwalker baby, we hope you enjoy your stay but shut your mouth when you have no idea what you're talking about :)

Either things need to do way more damage so healers heal most of the time, or healers need more complex damage rotations and all healing should be aoe ogcd.

I legit just want to do more. Healing is the least engaging role by far. There is no debate.

@omensoffate

Ай бұрын

Do you only do dungeons 😂

@thenightshiftginger8701

Ай бұрын

@@omensoffate It is the least engaming job by far and i do all content

@BLKM4NTI5

29 күн бұрын

Then play DPS.

@romarikanugames

29 күн бұрын

@@BLKM4NTI5 Shut up lmao.

the comment of healers not doing as much dps as a dps is false, healers if you know how to do damage can beat dps on aoes and dang near close on single target with your normal duty finder dungeon

@NabsterHax

27 күн бұрын

Presence of mind + Holy Go Brrrr

Currently, the biggest problem of tank self-sustain is with Warrior. Bloodwhetting/Raw Intuition is way too overpowered due to the fact it can heal with every enemy hit while under its effect, and each enemy heals for 400 potency, and that is a lot, not to mention it can be used every 25 seconds. Then there's Equilibrium, which is a 1200 potency self-heal every 60 seconds. Again, a lot. These should be significantly reduced. And in Dawntrail Warrior receives a regen to its 120 second mitigation. More self-healing, even though it already has too much. Paladin's self-sustains are quite strong, but still inferior compared to Warrior. Clemency is a 1000 potency healing spell, which heals Paladin even if used on a party member. But I don't see Clemency as a problem, since in an optimal gameplay a Paladin never has to use it. I'm a Paladin main myself, and I use Clemency only if a healer dies and ress is not available. Holy Sheltron gives a 15 second regen, which I think is strong but not too much. Then there's heals from the blades every 60 seconds and occasional Holy Spirit, from level 86 onwards. In Dawntrail Paladin receives a 1000 potency shield to its 120 second mitigation. I admit, I'm worried this may be too strong, but I'll just have to see it first. Dark Knight and Gunbreaker can't even compete with Warrior and Paladin with self-sustain. Dark Knight has only Souleater and Abyssal drain, and shield from The Blackest Night. I don't count Living Dead here. Gunbreaker has only Aurora and one time-heal from Heart of Corundum. Although both are getting more self-sustain in Dawntrail. Will they be too much, I can't say yet. So, in conclusion I say that Warrior needs a significant reduction in its self-sustain. Paladin is in my opinion okay at the moment, but I wouldn't mind if it too is reduced a little. Dark Knight and Gunbreaker could have a little more self-sustain, but they can very well stay as they are now. Overall, I'm not saying a tank shouldn't have any self-sustaining, but give it too much, and, well, healers truly become unnecessary, and I don't want that.

@marioharrer9999

Ай бұрын

it always was

I think that wether or not the strike will "succeed" depends mostly on what you consider the goal to be. Is it for no roulettes to pop because all the healer refuse? That's not gonna happen, though they'll say they made a dent because dps roulette times will be foul with 2 new dps jobs. But if the goal is to call attention so that sometime within the patch cycle healers get some love maybe it happens, I'd say at least 70% that healers get some rework type attention.

"I support the cause but I'm not joining in because I don't think it will work" is so bogus. Of course it won't work if everyone thinks that way. And this stands is for anything of this nature, not just the healer strike.

@ventrue7

Ай бұрын

Yes but also realistically having this strike just before an expansion release is confusing and prob the worst time to bring this up.

@christhagod

Ай бұрын

zepla's fanbase would turn on her if she was remotely negative look at what happened when she said she didnt like endwalker

@riry0ku

Ай бұрын

@@ventrue7 It's happening in direct response to news that's coming out about the upcoming expansion and begins on the official launch of Dawntrail. Would waiting and then striking have better affect than striking at expansion launch? It's more likely to be noticed if players are struggling to advance MSQ because of lack of healers. (Regardless of whether it works or not.)

@ventrue7

Ай бұрын

@@riry0ku Yes we literally have no idea how challenging the new stuff is for healers. It is kinda pointless to have this just before an expansion. This should have been done like patches before maybe like the time Zepla made her video so they had time or after an expansion release so people can give actual feedback rather than from what they heard from people or leaks which is a really awkward base to start from if you are doing a healer “strike”

@riry0ku

Ай бұрын

@@ventrue7 At some point the camels back was going to break though and while it might not be perfect timing, I can see why it broke now and understand why healers are frustrated enough that they aren't waiting. Perhaps this will all seem foolish in hindsight. I'm sure most healers would hope that to be the case. I'm sure they'd rather have egg on their face and their favourite role restored. (For clarity, Ive been a healer main since ARR but I'll be trying picto first on DT launch meaning I have the liberty to wait and see the changes before deciding whether I'll main healing or join the strike. Hence why I say they and not we.)

Dungeons are never gonna get harder because they are the most casual content in the game and part of the story which people MUST be able to get through. People are looking for difficulty in content that isn't supposed to be difficult.

@Kyle-86

Ай бұрын

If you want easy mode play it with the bots/trusts. They auto complete the dungeons for you more or less

@purplefreedom1631

29 күн бұрын

​@@Kyle-86that's the point, it's so easy 3AI who don't AOE can beat it. That's why I'm laughing at the "healer strike" over easy MSQ duties

@NabsterHax

27 күн бұрын

@@Kyle-86 You can't do roulette with trusts, and roulettes are an essential part of the FF14 experience for all levels and skill levels. This complaint sits right next to the complaint about dungeons being one long corridor with no exploration. Players who are there for their roulette usually just want to get the duty done quickly and efficiently. Adding mechanics and skill checks that will catch new players by surprise or give them significant difficulty (leading to wipes) causes friction in the playerbase. If you want new or low skill players to get along with veteran players then you can't really get around designing the content to feel way too easy for a group of veterans.

Remember fellow Tanks, If the healer starts refusing to heal in protests then Shirking the healer becomes a mitigation ability ;)

@proy3

Ай бұрын

Maybe back in HW when shirk actually pushed people to the top of the enmity list.

@purplefreedom1631

29 күн бұрын

LOL I wish, SE too smart to let us troll like that

@warhammerguy

29 күн бұрын

@@purplefreedom1631 Shirk->superbolide->status off 😎

@purplefreedom1631

27 күн бұрын

@@warhammerguy that's genius, I'm going to have to do that

won't in short term going on a strike make people lookout more to complete content without a healer or experiment on it ?

@johnsonspark171

Ай бұрын

yes, Capitalism at its finest (in a sense). It's sort of like all those fast-food workers in California that got $20/hour who have now lost their jobs and are being replaced by kiosks. There are always going to be efficiencies discovered

I will probably play Viper in DT, but healing is probably my favorite thing to do in the game, so I may heal some to because I enjoy it.

Thinking about it, in every duty I always play my optimal rotation which might actually be part of the problem; if I don't play optimally as a tank the healer would have more to do 😂 all jokes aside, definitely support the strike, they need to add a proper healer dps rotation

I’m not “striking” but I’m just going to stop playing healer because of these very obvious issues where you feel like you are holding the team back by even being one in casual content.

This could easily have the reverse effect they desire. A lot of "good" healers leave queue cause of Strike, Inexperienced/"Bad" players pick up the role, people complain, devs make Healers even easier/watered down to mitigate the "bad" players.(Ya'know the whole reason why we have more Heals than necessary in the first place....and why we are where we're at now...) The amount of variables surrounding this, it is likely to do more harm than actual good imo. That alone has me worried. I'm glad AST is finally in a spot it feels like a naturally progression to the Card system from Stormblood, but tbh the role itself is boring. I'm all for the want for change and to be heard, but honestly I don't trust any of ya to provide reliable/valuable feedback that'll make the role feel/play better. You all want different things for the job, with the collective goal of "more engagement." But how people define that engagement is far different than what needs to be the reality in order for all jobs to properly work. The reason we have a lot of these issues in and with the game in the first place is because a vast majority of peeps pushed for that not thinking of the sacrifices needed to be made to get here.

@JathraDH

Ай бұрын

Finally, someone with a brain. You bring up a lot of very good points here that are hardly ever talked about. This needs more attention. I have a feeling your first point of them dumbing down healers even more will be exactly what happens. Many people can barely manage healing as it currently sits even with how easy it is. I would honestly hate to run dungeons as a not healer if healing got more difficult, those people would still play healer probably. It would also somehow make heal bots have a justification to exist.. Honestly people just don't know what they are doing and are too short sighted and narrow minded to consider the consequences of what they think they want.

@Naoto-kun1085

Ай бұрын

I see the biggest issue with the strike being how small the actual amount of people doing it is. I can confirm this is a very vocal minority. The majority of players aren't invested in the strike and will continue to act however they want. You can't bring change like this when the majority of the player base isn't supporting you, you're better off continuing to send feedback to the devs

@TheOneGreat

Ай бұрын

​@@Naoto-kun1085Say that to Viera who literally were requested on the forums. Smh What do you think a feedback forum is?

@Naoto-kun1085

Ай бұрын

@@TheOneGreat Giving feedback on forums is actually productive, trying to do a petty strike accomplishes nothing

@TheOneGreat

Ай бұрын

@@Naoto-kun1085 Arbitrary line is arbitrary. 😂

Astro main here and I didn’t even know there was a strike 😅

The video that started all this.. you know that guy made a follow-up vid responding to it right?

I just realized! Someone from the scions is joining the #FFXIVHealerStrike this expansion!

The problem is encounter design in casual content. You can literally drop any role and clear story dungeons. It's not just healers. They balance around higher level content because they have to - it wouldn't work otherwise. The issue is that casual content is so much easier than higher level content in order to make casual content accessible to everyone of all skill levels.

In wow you would not survive at all without a healer. Experienced tanks should just about survive but at this point even dps can tank it i did it yesterday.

@KwehShiro

Ай бұрын

then whats the point of having a tank in wow if the dps can tank it? same issue here different role XD

@stealthzi7465

Ай бұрын

@@KwehShiro no i meant in ff the dps can tank it. Not in wow they can't.

@Bebop1811

Ай бұрын

@@stealthzi7465 yes you can

They need to bring back Pharos Sirius difficultly level dungeons

Soloed the last boss in the last lv 90 dungeon as a WAR from 34% yesterday after the rest of the party wiped and it was pure jokes. Could've soloed him from full 100% if I really wanted to; was that easy. The entire time I was soloing the fight, I was also just thinking of the healer strike. lol

@Kakashi20xd6

29 күн бұрын

As a WAR, especially if you were over-geared in, sure. As a DRK, maybe not.

Thank you very much for using your platform to raise awareness of the situation when most people outright call it stupid and continue to make doormats out of healers.

As a main sch I find there is no need of me so I am switching to picto but heal in dailys and if I have to wait too long I'll switch to heal

the real question is, can an extreme dungeon be cleared without healers AND redmages?

"I respect the cause" I don't. They're crying over duties designed to be beat by 3AI and an afk player...

Every single job is meant to be engaging in and of itself. A core problem is that they have just straight up deleted the responsibilities carried by the roles of Tank and DPS. Healer retains theirs and to compensate for that responsibility, they have instead made those jobs as boring as watching paint dry. For the trinity to function properly, responsibility must be returned to both tanks and DPS; but this is just one of a dozen issues left to ferment. A tank must do more than just "enable stance and attack everything"; he must manage aggro properly, which should include managing the directions the enemy attacks in, and exposing their weak points for the DPS classes. This gameplay is extremely absent from today's content, where everything just sits in the middle of the arena and almost never moves or turns. The DPS is meant to handle additional mechanics that pop up mid fight, whether this be adds, towers, or other things; they're meant to do this so that healer and tank can focus on their respective responsibilities. As far as dungeons go, The Sunken Temple of Qarn for example caters far better to ideal Trinity gameplay than any dungeon released in ShB or EW. Maybe FFXIV should go the GW2 route and move away from the trinity, as their design really isn't congruent with it.

I think the "point" of the strike would be that if most healers were on board it would wreck the DF

I think if they wanted to be noticed they’d play healer but refuse to heal and revive, sticking to just dps.

@marioharrer9999

Ай бұрын

U can get reported for griefing doing tht. Actually in TOS.

Thankyou for covering this again! A tiny point of clarification: whilst non-standard comps of any combination of roles can clear content, you cannot use the Duty Finder function in this way unless making a pre-formed party. All roulettes, story trials and normal raids require the standard composition for queueing. Outside of just trying to get as many eyes on the myriad issues healers have - healers are simply refusing to participate in Df queues and freeing themselves of feeling they're only there to make a queue pop faster.

i wonder if a changing things like clemency or vercure by removing their ability to target party members would be enough to please these ppl. healing and raising should be exclusive to healer imo, tho stuff like second wind is acceptable, since it cant be targeted.

This healer strike will last until people have to wait an hour for a duty roulette. Then somone will be a healer just to get their dailies done.

I don't think there's an easy solution to this because of the insane skill gap in roulettes (e.g. does the tank mit/heal/invuln, the DPS AoE etc). The best they can do is add a few more DPS abilities so healers aren't just spamming 1 button the whole time.

As someone whose other favorite MMO is City of Heroes, I am used to not needing the trinity for casual level content, but City of Heroes, especially at higher levels, is built for that with the capped Defense and high-ish Resist (and most healer builds having more than two damage buttons). FFXIV is not. Healers need to have healer mechanics that are simple enough to execute, and our DPS rotations as Healers should be more than one or two buttons. Because of this, I'm back to doing x.0 story on Bard, which I haven't done since we suffered Bow Casting; something that stopped when Yoshi saw how few people wanted to play Brd or Mch at the time. ("We removed the cast bar. Please play Bard." --Yoshi before StB)

Expert dungeons should have tiers that offer increased rewards, bit like Mythic +, that way at base level, they should be easy but get progressively harder and more challenging for those that care about that.

All the healer strike will do is cause healer to be the role in need more often, and people who have no idea what the strike is, and people who don't care, will get insta queues. And people who enjoy playing healer but refuse to do it will either find a new role, or get bored and quit the game. Normal dungeons are supposed to be the absolute easiest group content. People acting like they're more than that, and should provide a challenge for even an average player, vastly underestimate how bad some people are at this game. And they give roulette rewards to encourage good players to go back and help new and weak players clear content. If you want a challenge, you should be in extreme, savage, or ultimates. But that said, I think this game having more bridge content would solve a lot of problems. They need heroic dungeon equivalent for people who want to do something tougher with friends, but aren't looking for savage raid fights. I agree that healers need a little more to do, and I wish there was more pulsing unavoidable damage, or more dps buttons in the healer kit. But at the same time, that hasn't really been the approach to the game for a while. And while I'd be willing to try a completely new direction for the game, there's a very real chance that making the healing experience in FF14 something like healing high keys in WoW could be a disaster.

@geetargato

Ай бұрын

People are just complaining to be complaining.

@yeetusdeleetus4697

Ай бұрын

@@geetargato No, you just aren't good enough at the game and don't know enough about it to realize that there is an issue. Maybe don't talk out of your ass about topics you don't understand? Maybe clear your first non-story duty and we can invite you to the conversation.

@metalgearbear9748

Ай бұрын

You're close, but why so disparaging? We are saying we want more TO DO not necessarily that things have to be "harder". They could implement more regular controllable damage going out, giving combo dps actions, etc. It's so easy to sit here and go "it's been like this for a while" yeah midcore players have been talking about how disappointed they are for a while, so I don't know why the dev team keeps passing that up and simplifying things to the point we fall asleep. It just isn't fun when you need things to go awry to justify pressing all of your 20+ healing buttons.

The healer strike is def drawing attention to this; with so many pages on the forums im sure the devs have seen it already. HOWEVER. This is happening right after the devs said they'd stop listening to so much feedback and instead do their own thing, so i dont think their strike is gonna make a significant change anytime soon 😂

i like that tanks are somewhat fine without a healer. If a healer makes a small mistake, eats 2 AoEs and dies, then that would mean insta wipe for the group otherwise. If you use your tools correctly you can still make it. Give healers interesting AoE abilitys for dungeons, that would not make them harder in trials/ savage where they are fine already.

if you can clear an ultimate fight without a healer regardless of how good that team is,then you need to acknowlede that there is a problem with healer engament. the fact wow and eso have more healing foucsed mechanics that final fantasy is wild, heck Amydrassil had multiple bosses with healer focused mechanics. Too add further insult we have alot of major streams we need to get over it or dps are boring too. Yoshi P also threw flames on the fire where he said if healers want to havefun do ultimates

One role i miss that some games have done is a true support class. I would be so happy if they consolidated support abilities on healers: slows, haste, vulnerable (aka Mug from Ninja), take 'thrill of battle' from warrior and give it to healers to use on their target, things like that. Of course I am biased because I prefer a full support class so probably just wishful thinking on my part. LOL

Ok.. I don’t totally agree to making content more challenging as there is content for those who want a challenge.. giving the nature of fixing you have too many classes to level, if u have adhd and need to see all numbers capped you can’t really play challenging dungeons on classes you really suck at… so we need a very easy mind numbing task to level alt classes we don’t fancy… when I queue as tank (and I duck at it) and the party expects me to be a pro at mitigating damage and holding myself up with 0 heals because “tanks have done and can do this”

It's not working. Dungeons queue just as fast. And I was queuing as dps

I wanna say tanks are not broken but um…my first run of the Atherfont (expert 90 duty) all 3 other members of the party died when the boss was, dunno lets say 50% or more whatever. Never did the boss before but wasnt hard to figure out. I was on my PLD. I…soloed the rest of the fight. First I jokingly continued just to try but the others cheered me on and yeah. Honestly that should not be possible for current content.

is the mechanics of the dungeon easy because we have 15 year veratrin doing it or people whos only played as month like Quin69 once said "where are the heal" he made the game look hard and almost impossible to play we will see what its like onces it launches and more people are playing

I promise to stand in every AOE and eat every tankbuster without mit in dungeons to protect healer jobs.

@marioharrer9999

Ай бұрын

I am in.

@purplefreedom1631

29 күн бұрын

You used mit on tank busters before? *uses raw after to heal up the 15% hp loss

@TBG497

29 күн бұрын

@@purplefreedom1631 It's called solidarity!

@purplefreedom1631

29 күн бұрын

@@TBG497 nah, obsolete them until they put on their big boy pants and start doing real content that they're actually needed in, tired of waiting an hour to get a shield healer for TEA.

The healer strike isn't about healers being useless, it's about difficulty of content. I don't think that being ABLE to clear savage or ultimate with clemency and vercure instead of a traditional healer is that big of an issue since it was clearly VERY sub-optimal and difficult to do. You could easily make healers necessary by simply removing all the healing from other jobs; then even easy content would be almost impossible without them. No more bloodbath or second wind etc. But I don't think that's really what this is about so much as bosses and trash pulls just don't do enough damage to make the healer feel like they're meaningfully contributing. I do think tanks especially have too much self-healing rn, ESPECIALLY warrior, but really you can fix this problem with just better encounter design. Target and damage the DPS and healers more often; maybe the tank can survive without a constant infusion of healing but everybody else certainly can't - push on the jobs that are defensively weaker and have fewer self-healing options more and the dedicated healers will always have something to do.

Watching this is so bizarre from the perspective of a WoW player who's been healing for 10 years now. You can easily clear all leveling dungeons in WoW without a healer week 1 and even M+ keys (including no healer teams in the mdi) and nobody complains. Healing in easy content will never be fun for experienced players due to the nature how healing works. Not even 1-3 more dps buttons will change that. How do I know that? Because doing DPS in WoW as a healer isn't fun either in easy content. A lot of the fun comes from hybrid builds like Fistweaving which are completely pointless in easy content because all the cool synergies between healing and dps abilities don't matter due to how easy the dungeons are. (which is fine because easy dungeons are supposed to be easy) I honestly wish MMORPGs would redesign the entire role into supports like in MOBA games or hero shooters. It's way more fun imo Just remove heal abilities entirely and turn them into DPS jobs like BRD or DNC currently are. I don't think people in the forum are entirely wrong but this just the tip of the iceberg that plagues an entire genre. I don't think that adding more dps abilities, removing skills from other jobs or increasing healing requirements will change anything. I still feel like SE should add some more DPS buttons if it makes people happy though, but then people also have to live with the fact that dungeon clears will take longer because not every healer will do optimal DPS. You will still do the same DPS as currently but instead of 1-2 buttons you would use 4-6. Seeing threads like this and then people in duty finder who wipe on Zeromus normal because they fail the heal check is an interesting observation.

@serahill

28 күн бұрын

You focus on easy content but the problem in FFXIV is that it's all content. I've cleared all of the hardest fights in the game (savage & ultimate) and there simply is not enough incoming damage to keep healing interactive. I doubt in wow you can do the hardest content in the game as a healer without breaking your damage spam for a moment. In FFXIV most savage+ fights can be cleared doing OGCD heals (instant cast heals) so that you never have to break your 1 button spam, and that is a problem, there is not enough damage coming in.

I get it but the thing i feel most dont get is that this is only true if the tank is good and doing all they can. The video of xeno clearing in the media tour just ignores the fact that xeno is a really high caliber tank that does worlds first and stuff like that. It shouldnt be surprising that someone that incested in their specific role are able to play it at the peak.

I agree in principle with the healer strike but at the same time for MSQ dungeons I do not want to be beholden to a healer that fails mechanics and dies there for wiping the whole group because they made a single mistake (no one in MSQ should be that important or give every dps a Brez.) Thats why when I am just rando queuing I play with my War or Pal, but when I que with my bro who is a healer I play DRK cause I trust him not to mess up a lot.

To add insult to injury on all this, sages like me got excited at a second dot being revealed during the media tour and how it would be stackable... only for the expansion to officially release and the dot no longer able to be stackable? WHY?! Why does Yoshi P still worry about newer healers being scared at having slightly more damage mechanics after level 100 for only one of four available healer jobs? This isn't A Realm Reborn content; this is after spending a considerable amount of time leveling everything up. The new occasional oGCD attack is nice, I'll admit, but that's not much and doesn't apply toward any pre-Dawntrail instances, which is a majority of the current roulette content.

Casuals demand harder content while actively avoiding that content in the first place is crazy. They can always ask the tank to not use mits or to unequip some items if they want to heal in dungeon. This way that bullshit atleast wont affect everyone else. They probably dont even realize that once the clear of the party is gonna depend on them, they gonna be the first one to be kicked if it doesnt go well.

I think the solution is to give every trash mob and every boss in the game much more party wide, unavoidable damage. No more can the healer just spam dps, no more can the tank fail to use mitigation and no more can the dps stand in the fire. Do any of the things I mention and the party wipes. Immediately making healers essential, making skilled high dps preferable and making damage mitigation by tanks mandatory while also ending the "should healers focus on healing or dps" argument. They will be too busy healing to wonder and that's also the answer to that question.

This is a issue I feel all mmos are running into. If you give the group to much personal healing/defensives then the healer is not needed. If you up the damage and danger then healers can become over stressed and casual ones quit playing a healer.

@yeetusdeleetus4697

Ай бұрын

This is fine. There are literally 18 other jobs in the game. Why does every casual HAVE to play a healer. Why do they NEED to play the most stressful and demanding role in any Trinity System? Why does EVERY SINGLE job in this god forsaken game have to be catered around the lowest possible denominator, people without fingers who are also legally blind and deaf and also have cerebral palsy and also don't have internet, like seriously its ridiculous at this point. Not even BLM is safe anymore, people who enjoy the combat in this game get literally nothing but their fun ripped away for these drooling half-human players who cant figure out that orange is bad and to press the glowing button after 500 hours of MSQ and 150 duties.

gonna start charging cash for fast queues as a healer since theyre all on strike this is a good time to profit

I think all healers should have universal attack buffs and possible crit rate buffs to support the party's speed and ease of clear.

I am personally of the opinion that, while this is an issue, its less of an issue of the healer design (which is still a problem), and more of an issue with dungeon design. Like yes, Healer dps rotations are boring. I think they should get one or two more filler buttons to press. Not too many, because again, they're healers. Damage is not their job Black Mage's filler fire phase consists of literally three buttons as is not including procs or resourses, and one of those buttons you press six times, it realistically isn't too far off of what Healers have already as far as buttons go. The difference is that Black Mage is a damage job, so of course they have more damage buttons to press, that's their job in the trinity, as a white mage's role is to heal the party, not necessarily do the most dps. BUT higher end content demands more healing, you realistically can't just waltz into most extremes, and especially savage or ultimate fights, and expect to clear without a healer. Sure, it's been done before, but just because the 1% of the 1% of the playerbase when it comes to skill can do it, doesn't mean the average PF ultimate raider is going to be able to reasonably it off. They just don't have the skill to do that. There is a difference between possibility, and reasonability. Where it becomes an issue, is something can REASONABLY, clear without a healer. That's when it becomes more of an issue as far as the healer's use goes. When "us mortals" are able to do it. And lets be honest, it really is not that hard to press the "Bloodwetting" button, and press an aoe skill, then watch your hp go back to full in a dungeon, and then watch as the enemies hit you like a wet noodle for 20 seconds before you repeat the process. The issue the boycott is targeting mainly lies, I think, in dungeons specifically. ie, the dungeons don't do enough damage. And this is basically true of every dungeon in the game. Take Scholar into Coperbell Mines, and you'll never have to touch a single healing spell the entire run, even if the tank wall to wall pulls, because your fairy is going to cover all that healing all on its own. And I can't even count how many times I had to solo a boss in The Dead Ends as a tank while doing Mentor Roulletes because everyone else died to prance or something, and even as a Dark Knight (who has the worst self-sustain out of any tank in the game), I comfortably could kill the boss on my own. Now dungeons are kinda meant to be easy; they are story content, after all. They need to be accessible to even the lowest common denominator of player. We are talking the most debased playstyles you have ever seen, the ones that rarely crawl their way out of afking in Limsa or duty support to maybe do a roullete, but when you queue with them, you will KNOW; because you dont need a third-party program to see they're not good at the game. But the dungeons do need to be clearable for them, because the dungeons are required for the story. At the same time, Dungeons just don't do enough damage to be threatening to tanks (who are balanced around 8 man content) with all the tools they have now, so they just kind of walk over all of the dungeons now. Especially Warrior. The easiest fix I would think would be to up the damage dungeons do, to where it isn't too overwhelming, and most players could conceivably clear it just fine with no issues still, but high enough to where warrior or paladin can comfortably outheal the damage outright. As Yoshi P said he doesn't want to cause too much change, as it would shock the playerbase too much. So maybe once we find that happy medium where dungeons are threatening enough to want a healer around, we can start brainstorming ways for their filler rotations to be a little more engaging (I personally believe they realistically only need like 1-2 buttons each, as healers they shouldn't get much I think, as JP says; if you want to do damage, play a dps).

2:21 bosses in dungeons are waaaaay easier than trash mobs leading up ro the bosses. I bet if the healer had died immediately on a wall to wall the tank would have died too. But this is mever mentioned is it?

Expert Dungeons are the thing that the game has been missing. Hard versions of dungeons are entirely different dungeons. We need something like ESO's Veteran Dungeons that revolve around high level 4 man content for its own sake, with their own loot pools. Not everyone has 8 high level players that are currently playing. I think of something like Destiny 2 (I can't believe I'm comparing that game favorably to XIV) which has Nightfalls and Expert Dungeons which function as their own endgame separate from Raids for high level teams that are smaller. Of course, ESO has Veteran Dungeons, pretty sure WoW have their own high level dungeons, etc. Endgames are important for retaining a happy fanbase, and I like that the dev team is opening up to adding just a little bit of grind to the endgame so that people have incentive to do something other than Raid or Group Posing and Roleplay. The housing system revolves around having a large, eternally invested community, and we need more endgame content that is satisfying in some form. Also, I would love to play more CC but I would like to play on the same team with my friends, please? It's not balance to prevent static pvp teams from forming, it's preventing me from playing a very fun game mode because I have to play alone or professionally with a set team. This is beyond dumb and seems to be made by people who listened only to folks that never want to get better at PVP. Research match-making and allow parties to join together.

@marioharrer9999

Ай бұрын

u mean those difficult vet HMs tht were cleared by solo players? yes yes very challenging content

To me it’s like on an average day with average runs, as in with people getting hit by avoidable things here and there, doing any normal content, I feel like as a healer you’re asked for like 0-25% effort. Step into extremes to ultimates it’s 75-100% effort. It doesn’t feel like there’s much content in XIV that asks for that nice mid range of effort as a healer specifically. Typing this actually I wish there was more content with the difficulty of the ivalice raids which has things to Esuna that isn’t doom, 1hp mechs, heal checks. Playing healer in that is satisfying because I have a bit more to do than most content. Give me Ivalice 2.0

I can't be that hard to implement an actual Story difficulty option for, well, the story playthrough. Everybody gets to finish the story, and afterwards everybody needs to step their game up a bit for the proper dungeons.

@Oogrilla

Ай бұрын

That’s the Duty Support system

@purplefreedom1631

29 күн бұрын

I'm just going to point out how many people purposely didn't unlock raids besides CT because they wanted easier fast roulos... MSQ duties are designed to be easy, if you want challenging fights do side content.

Bet it’s like 40 healers striking. I’m having fun as healer.

@voidmonkey7907

Ай бұрын

Nature of the internet. Angriest voices are the most noticeable

@RepublicOrder

Ай бұрын

I'm having fun too =D

@yeetusdeleetus4697

Ай бұрын

Well yeah because you're terrible at the game and have no idea what you're doing. Even a toddler can have fun pressing the shiny button and looking at the pretty lights, but most people grow out of that and want something a little bit more fulfilling from their entertainment around the age of 13.