Upham is so frustrating because he’s the weakness we all see in ourselves and the thought of bitching out on your bois and inevitably getting them killed makes you angry because you would be so disappointed in yourself. That scene where he’s on the stairs listening to fish lose his fight is so intense and haunting.

I saw the film when it first came out with my dad who was a WWII vet. He was a medic in the 4th Armoured, US Third Army in France. As we we watching the movie my dad said early on when the Upham character was first being introduced, "That's the kind of guy that'll get you killed."

Upham was just a guy thrown into a situation he wasn't trained or built for. Most people are more of an Upham than anyone else in the film.

@lastword8783

2 жыл бұрын

Nah. Ive seen footage of kids pick up guns and fight better than Upham. If most men are as useless as upham then this generation sucks.

@ruparavi6409

2 жыл бұрын

@@lastword8783 Are you serious? Kids have no idea what war does to men, Kid are ready to throw themselves from rooftops, thats stupidity, not bravery They dont understand anyhting, because they are kids Just because they picked up some toy guns and did something doesnt mean they are better than Upham

@lastword8783

2 жыл бұрын

@@ruparavi6409 have you ever seen combatants in other countries? Some are just teenagers like 14, 15, 16 etc and they fight better than upham. They arent good but theyre not quivering cowards who wont even fire on the enemy.

@ruparavi6409

2 жыл бұрын

@@lastword8783 Oh, just because "some" teenagers fight better than him doesn't mean Upham is a coward or anything, it just means that the teens are ready for combat, while Upham here has very clearly mentioned that he has zero comab training, and has not fired a gun since basics. He is the guy who is supposed to be working in offices, with a typewriter, and making maps, he isn't supposed to be on the frontline, and thats what basically happened. You cant blame him if he froze

@lastword8783

2 жыл бұрын

@@ruparavi6409 "ready for combat" = picking up a gun and fighting in your trackpants and t-shirt 🤣

1. The other soldiers were speaking Czech, not Polish. 2. Upham wasn’t supposed to represent moralism in war. He had romanticized ideas, but he knew well enough about war to know immediately to tell Miller that he was clearly not made for a combat role (e.g. explaining that he hadn’t shot a weapon since training, and accidentally picking up the German helmet instead of the American one.). Upham is not a representation how the humanity of people fail, in my eyes; he’s represents the loss of innocence. Disillusionment. Just like Steamboat Willie, he’s there because he has to be. The translation at the end is essentially: Upham: Hands up! Hands up! Drop your weapons! Drop your weapons! Hands up! Steamboat Willie: I know this man. I know this soldier. Upham: Shut up. Steamboat Willie: ...Upham. He essentially sneered in Upham’s face at his threat because he knew that Upham had been the only kind person to him before. Based on how he smiles after being told to “shut up” only to keep going, he does not take him seriously. If SW is basically like “I know this soldier” and is at ease enough to smile while saying his name, who is to say that Upham, definitely outnumbered, wouldn’t have been shot? If that guy can have a gun pointed at him, be told to be quiet, and keep taunting him after shooting the man that showed him mercy, what’s to say the other’s wouldn’t pick up their guns and shoot him? Upham is the disillusionment of a man that has tried to maintain society’s rules (literally saying “it’s against the rules” when the others want to shoot him) in a war where they simply don’t exist. He defended him after he killed Wade and did not want revenge. But shooting SW, I think is when he finally realized that grace was something that was easily taken advantage of in war. And the cost can be great. I don’t think Upham lost his character. He said essentially that war forged a man’s true character. He still didn’t shoot the remaining soldiers - he said “Get out. Disappear.” Pretty sure if I saw one of one of my men be completely unafraid of a soldier known to him only to be shot, I wouldn’t have tried anything either.

@keenanh.crotty4783

3 жыл бұрын

1. In the video, I added texting correcting that they are speaking Czech. 2. I like the loss of innocence take on his role. The film, like any good one, has room for interpretation. I saw it as commenting on maintaining human decency in a place where it is virtually impossible to do so. Upham representing someone going from one extreme to the other. You saw it as a story of society preaching unrealistic ideals, and how the trials of reality will eventually come to bare on you. Upham this represents someone who had reality crash on him particularly hard. I think both work, and it really shows how our own perspectives really alter our perceptions.

@thatgurltayannepav

3 жыл бұрын

I like your take on it, I just don’t believe he deserves to be hated. I don’t think he wanted to do any what he was doing. He was there initially simply because he could translate. Hell, he wanted to bring his typewriter. He was really not there for combat. I’m not in the military - I’m a social worker. Jeremy portrayed him perfectly in my opinion. You could literally see the loss of innocence in his eyes as he watched SW shoot his Captain. I don’t believe he deserves hate. Yes, he did fail his comrade. But throughout the movie, I just couldn’t hate him. I saw him as growing up and having reality hit him hard when he shot SW, but I think his humanity still remained because he told the others to basically “Skin off, disappear.” He still spared people that were the enemy but I saw killing SW as more of a strategic move rather than one of revenge. He knew that kindness didn’t prevent SW from hurting his men. And at that point, like I said, he is outnumbered and not taken seriously. He didn’t wound or kill any of the other soldiers. To me, his character remains intact. Even if it was revenge motivated, he spoke about the bonds of brotherhood. Revenge killing would still speak to his initial beliefs, if that was what it was. He had spared the life that had taken one of his men, then he decided to not after he took another one of his men. I would still consider that brotherhood in a wartime sense. I don’t hate Upham. Idk, I always defend him. He fits the Innocence Lost trope to a tee. “A plot where an innocent person, usually a kid, is exposed to true evil, or the uglier and darker side of the world, for the first time, usually through being exploited by a criminal or suffering something traumatic like abuse or the loss of someone they love. However the story pans out, the character's innocence is gone forever by the end, with much regret by all involved”

I remember Spielberg said he would be like Upham in combat.

I think it’s because Upham goes against the archetype of the “regular guy” who rises up to be the hero that people hate him. Upham is shot in combat. Yeh, Upham knows that. Why do you think he’s a clerk at the start? He’s not meant to be in combat

I fear that under similar circumstances I would act like Upham

Yeah Upham was a disappointment, also I agree to some extent, Imo Upham hasn't redeemed himself in my eyes just cause he killed the one soldier that killed stanley (fish) mellish .. Mellish could've easily been alive.

@anthony4611

3 жыл бұрын

The guy who killed wade and the guy who killed mellish are two different soldiers

I hated Upham when he failed to save his "friend", but what really made it sink in for me was when he killed that German soldier at the end, when they were surrendering. He couldn't help his friend, but he could kill an unarmed, surrendering soldier. Not only does this make him as bad as everyone else, it makes him worse. No redemption there. So yeah i guess i agree with you there.

@leebomm.

3 жыл бұрын

He was having a breakdown and I wanted melish to live it saddened me

@Stevie8654

3 жыл бұрын

He let the guy go once and the guy shot his captain. He was completely justified in shooting that guy.

@alienextraterrestrial113

3 жыл бұрын

@@leebomm. He was being a coward. If it was my brother in that situation I'd risk a knife to my chest to save him.

@alaskanwhiskey

2 жыл бұрын

@@alienextraterrestrial113 all the people defending upham would have never gotten through boot camp.

@Mcree114

Жыл бұрын

@@Stevie8654 People seem to intentionally forget that just to hate on Upham while ignoring and/or cheering that the squad wanted to execute Steamboat Willie in the first place. Why do people not bitch about that attempted POW execution or the murder of the two Czech guys at the start of the movie?

That was phenomenal acting. Very believable. Props to Jeremy Davies!

Chill on him he just translates and make maps so they wouldn't be there without him

This is actually a pro war film but not in the sense that propaganda is. It’s honest depiction that shows the horrors but it also shows that war as a necessary way to stop evil. It’s no coincidence he made this film after Schindler’s list. So while it doesn’t say war is good like some film, it does say war is necessary.

Something not often discussed is how Upham interrupts his superiors in his introduction scene by telling Capt Miller that there's enemy at Neuville and he has never been in combat. You never, NEVER, interrupt when your superiors are talking each other. I can't see Upham's old superior's rank insignia but John Miller is Captain ffs... It's a great way to show Upham has lived in sheltered self-centered life (his opinion needs to be heard to others no matter what they're doing at the moment) and has no idea how real world works. On the flip side... I just realized that this scene might be suggesting Capt Miller's past by showing he's nonchalant about being interrupted. A High School Teacher who is used to being interrupted by his students... maybe I'm digging too deep.

Another thing, that prisoner that Upham talked them into releasing wasnt the same soldier that knifed the guy at the end, they just looked alike.

It makes sense. I still think he is the movie "villain", and even though he didn't killed the German guy in the end, I would still hate him.

@Sc0rch91

2 жыл бұрын

?

"looked I washed for supper."

I appreciate that you actually made a video about this character, and I HATE this character, but its not because he was afraid. Almost everyone is afaid in combat. However, when your brothers and sisters in arms are literally dying around you, you should put that shit down, stow it, and do whatever it takes takes to help them, because they will do the same for you. What you dont do is cry and listen while your brother is in a death struggle and gets knifed to death and then cry while the guy walks away, and then cry and hide the rest of the battle, AND THEN pop up and kill a surrendering enemy like it makes it better, AND THEN let the rest of the surrendering enemy soldiers go.

If I encountered upham in the field , Id massage him gently

One thing to keep in mind. All soldiers were given direct orders not to take prisoners during the landing and in days following. They didn't feel like they would have the resources, man power or time to hold prisoners. In fact I remember one veteran talking about how moving forward was so important that they asked the soldiers to not stop to help the wounded because it was so important to maintain the push. So I agree somewhat what you are saying about losing your humanity in combat which is very true. In Band of Brothers..Captain Spiers talks to a man who has been paralyzed in fear, so he was told by Spiers that the only thing he can do is to accept the fact that he's already dead. So he can act without remorse and without compassion. I just think it's important to think of the orders that were given to the soldiers but I definitely agree that it's a shock in the beginning to see such a cold blooded act.

I hate those kinda Videos more than Upham. And he's not weak.

@keenanh.crotty4783

3 жыл бұрын

Then don't watch them

Something that almost nobody knows is that the soldier that Upham killed is not the same soldier that killed Melish, the one who killed Melish was a wafen SS fighter, and steamboat Willie wasn't, they look similar, so knowing this information I have lost any satisfaction when Upham shoots Willie. 😩

Ugh..... foreverranting.... Why is Upham here To translate French and German ok He translated that song....Yeah That was super critical Thank God he was there for that

The reason people hate Upham is because he embodies the fears and weakness we all have so we see ourselves in him.

There was an order for most of the units during d-day to take no prisoners and the reason for that was that the invasion would lack men to fight if they had to guard prisoners of war.

Dislike and hate are the wrong words. You pity Upham. And then once he loses his innocence that pity for him changes to sadness for humanity in general, that this is how and why he "grows up". Every human has strengths, which can be grown. And where you have weakness you can also work on growth. But not all strength is useful in all situations. Upham's strength was pretty useless fighting tanks and experienced soldiers. Did not make him a bad person just someone with the wrong strength. His basic training had done a poor job of growing him in other areas so he would be useful in combat, likely because he was cherry picked for admin early on. But when Upham shoots a surrendering soldier in "cold blood" later he finds a new strength which we all understand and appreciate...but that is sad and a sad statement about all humanity. So it is not Upham you hate, it is the ugly side of war and humanity that you hate.

@MeatBunFul

Жыл бұрын

Nah he's still a coward who let his ally died

Out of curiosity, how many people here are current or former members of the military or law enforcement? I was never a part of either, so I lack that perspective. Thus, I came at the movie with storytelling and philosophical mindset. Most people who saw Upham differently from me seem to share a similar viewpoint. Just curious if that is a common link or if it is something else.

@johnnybensonitis7853

3 жыл бұрын

I was in the Army from '02 to '06 and did a year in Iraq as a medic. That said, I can't relate to shit in this movie because it was just such a different time. That was the last war where we were the "good guys" so to speak, and even back during Iraq when I was there it was pretty clear that we were there for reasons that couldn't be justified so easily as being "good". It was fucked up and those people were living in absolute poverty. I feel out of a Humvee once during a routine trip to another FOB due to the latch on the door being faulty, and the Iraqi people around were genuinely concerned giving me a thumbs up to which I returned looking like an absolute dipshit hahaha. But yeah, I couldn't hate Upham for anything depicted in the movie. Any type of combat exposure can really fuck with your mind, but as you said in the video it was very "Hollywood" for the movie to have Steamboat Willie show up there at the end and have Upham actually witness and recognize it was his bullet that hit Miller. Great video, I subbed and will check out some more of your stuff! You're great at laying out your thoughts in a cohesive way.

@marcusalejandro8044

3 жыл бұрын

If someone is trying to kill your family, are you going to just curl up into a ball and do nothing about it? Not me I'm going to do whatever it takes to defend them

@alaskanwhiskey

2 жыл бұрын

@@marcusalejandro8044 exactly, bunch of BS

@jalenwalker8790

2 жыл бұрын

@@marcusalejandro8044 exactly. This thought process that because he wasn’t trained and it isn’t his job is ridiculous. It was one guy attacking his brother. He is the embodiment of a coward. If get if it was a platoon then that would make it make more sense. But one guy? Plenty of ww1 and ww2 stories of civilians taking arms and defending land with their countries soldiers. So a regular guy who kills a thief tryna steal stuff in his house has more courage then upham. All videos of shop owners protecting themselves against robbers with there own gun has more courage than a soldier? And he’s not a coward? Yea oka

@tjm11015

Жыл бұрын

I am, and I'll tell you, he is one of the most hated characters in all of cinema by soldiers, and people who have been through war and death with their brothers and sisters in arms. Not because he was scared, almost everyone is scared, but you lock that shit down, stow it, and do what it takes to watch the back of the person next to you.

Yeah, I knew where you were going with this from the start, but still watched to better understand your point of View. Killing the German soldier wasn't only wrong from the ethical point of view, but also it was the ultimate coward move. It's the one thing that sealed him as probably one of the biggest cowards in the history of cinema, and that's the recognizable and quite common human trait of acting tough only when you've got the upper hand, then immediately shitting yourself when you've got to man up. I think that's a pretty solid reason to hate the character. If he stayed a coward shitting himself to the very end, at least he'd have been consistent xD

I would have fragged him with a 40 Mike Mike if he was in my squad .

Interesting take. Two things, though. One, Vigilante Justice isn't always about retribution, revenge, or emotional satisfaction. There were times and places in the American West where the designated officers of the law were bought off by the railroads or the cattle barons and the little folks just got stepped on. They then had to form "enforcement committees" (vigilante organizations), or else there'd have been no law at all. Two, in the special case of the prisoner captured at the transmitter station, the Ryan search squad could not keep him as a prisoner because that would have compromised their mission. The only solution was to let him go, ON CONDITION THAT HE STILL CONSIDER HIMSELF A PRISONER AND HE TURN HIMSELF IN TO OTHER ALLIED FORCES. By rejoining a German unit instead, he violated that agreement and became an escaped prisoner and an active combatant. One whose word could not be trusted, if he said that he was now surrendering again. So, yup, it's a contrived situation. Made worse by him being the very one who shot Capt. Miller. But even without that, he's a special case. One that people might take any of several positions on.

Good video. Valid points. I remember watching this when it came out with my grandfather. I was 8. What he said was nearly the same as your view. Hated that Upham was a coward and tried to fix it in that manner. Just in old timer country words. Keep up the videos and discussions. 👍

This review felt like a Upahm review

Lol. The paratroopers and Rangers were highly trained and had some combat experience. Very possible the first time they were in combat some of them were paralyzed by fear. The ones that survived learn to manage their fear. Anyone that hates this character well.. to quote a recent U.S. Secretary of Defense who had Vietnam combat experience and what he said when walking out of a meeting..."those people don't know what it is like to have your face down in the mud with bullets whizzing over your head." The character in this movie did in fact run and do some things while under fire. Not bad for someone's first encounter under fire. As for the final argument, the character had just experienced high stress, thus he wasn't under full control of his facilities. Most of the argument in this video is unsatisfactory.

@EricPalmerBlog

3 жыл бұрын

"Satellite station". Didn't exist then.

@keenanh.crotty4783

3 жыл бұрын

What you say is valid. I came at this from the viewpoint of looking at it thematically and philosophically, which I think is quite unsatisfactory to the many nuances of reality. Also, I wasn't reading from a script, so I feel my slip of "satellite station" for the installation can be forgiven. Not claiming to be perfect here hahaa.

While the movie is fictional, upham was a piece of shit. Basic training creates a herd mentality which means everyone thinks the same way when certain situations arise. In this case having gone through training and feeling what a brotherhood feels like from basic training then seeing how much death was outside the wire there’s no way he should’ve allowed that soldier to live. In reality no one would’ve questioned the captain if he had ordered the German soldiers death or killed him himself.

Does anyone here know that your first job in the military is combat and your second is what u are trained in?

Upham's character is a hypocrite and shows an extraordinary amount of cowardice, which is why he's hated. 1. He was on Normandy beach shortly after D-day. There's no way in the world you're naiveite isn't lost after seeing and smelling the death and carnage which would have still been seen on the beach. 2. Upham had gone to basic training and learned to fire a weapon so by the nature of logic it was entirely possible that he would have seen combat and should have expected the possibility of experiencing it. 3. Upham is a klutz and a moron who's tone deaf and can't read a room to save his life. This makes him unlikeable but the hate comes from his inability to grow and remain that way. He does that through all the acts of the movie. 4. Upham is the kind of guy that if his wife and kids were in mortal danger and crying for him to help he probably would opt to flee then help them, b/c his selfishness is that extreme. Most people in those situations usually grit their teeth against their fear and would risk their lives to save their loves ones. 5. Upham is the kind of guy that can pull the trigger only if it means that little to no harm will come to himself. A bunch of soldiers surrender and your response is to shoot one of them then let the others go so that they can kill more of your pals. This is the mistake you made earlier, which demonstrates not only his moral bankruptcy but his extreme incompetency. This is like a man that only beats up on women and children but is afraid to fight men. 6. A friend once told me that the plot twist was that Upham was german spy, and that's why he was so incompetent. 7. Upham isn't a realistic person. When tragedy hits many scared people who don't have "basic training" are terrified step in to do something. Upham runs away when his assistance could have easily saved someone's life. There are men, women, and children with less qualifications than Upham in real life that stepped up.

Completely overlooking the video for this but the m1919 upham was carrying the ammo belts for is a light machine gun.

@keenanh.crotty4783

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks?

Great movie but I can't let this slide even though I kind of realise that these people aren't the same. Charles Hazlett Upham, is the only combatant soldier to win the Victoria Cross twice, yes he wasn't at Normandy but any shade on the Upham name should have some cast iron justification. And before anybody cries foul Upham isn't exactly like Smith or Jones.

I appreciate the effort you put into this, but I can't agree with much of anything you said. I think you are as wrong for 'hating' upham for his execution of the german as the people who hate him for his cowardice. The issue I think you might want to think about the next time you on the topic of saving private ryan is, what does it take to kill another human, and why would someone actually go through with an action that would have such a result.

@keenanh.crotty4783

3 жыл бұрын

That is a good point in general. However, your point assumes I believe there is any justification for taking a life. As for an answer to that, like many things such as Upham, it is complicated. Philosophy and ethics are fascinating if only because there is never really a clear cut answer - only our own perspective.

I'd say that the storming of the beach scene was probably the best part of the film; the rest falls a bit too much on the heroism/individual can make a difference in the face of total war. I'd say that the film Come And See does a hell of a job of not romanticizing war; with the main character seemingly going into things with the thought of heroism and quickly realizing how powerless an individual person really is in the face of such barbarism; can't recommend this film highly enough.

They put him in to get an emotional reaction from the viewer. Plain and simple

@ruparavi6409

2 жыл бұрын

nope

No. It wasn't ONLY for revenge. As you said yourself, he wasn't going to turn himself in to some other American soldiers somewhere else, which means he was going to join up with another formation of German soldiers and get back into the fight and kill some MORE Americans. Which is precisely what he did do, when he shot and killed Capt. Miller. So, would you have Miller, Riben, Jackson and the others drag Steamboat Willie around with them, while they continued looking for Ryan? At the first opportunity he would either have run, or perhaps, wrested a weapon from them and used it against them. The harsh reality of war is that the conventions of ordinary life can't always be observed in the fluid environment of the battlefield. They were in a combat area. Had they been in a rear area, it would have been another matter.

@keenanh.crotty4783

3 жыл бұрын

I also said it couldn't be expected for Willie to turn himself into the Americans because of how the group treated him. He would likely assume all Americans might execute him. And, I hate to harp on this on people who comment on this video, this is a MOVIE. FICTION. It is a fairly realistic but still completely contrived representation of war for the purpose of telling a story. A story that has themes and perspectives being conveyed by people who, at best, consulted with or interviewed actual soldiers. It is NOT trying to depict legitimate war. It is trying to discuss the IDEA of war. The ETHICS of war. The PHILOSOPHY underneath the killing and destruction that, in real life, are not able to be considered.

I think Upham is a cheap shot by Stephen S honestly. His entire character buildup was only for that moment. To play on the audience emotions. It was played on purpose and made so uncomfortable and completely tragic that it was the same nazi they had let live before. That death scene is excruciating to watch, and infuriating as well. It does its job well. But I think all this nonsense about him being off the hook because hes a mousy neurotic pacifist is silly. If this were to happen in real life, this person would need to live with their failure to act for the rest of their life. I disagree here, upham was very much meant to be disliked in this moment. Upham deserves the ire of every audience member. The fact that this man was released and promised to stop fighting the war in exchange for his life makes any notion that uphams morals would be compromised moot. This is war. There isn’t a court of law. I hen it is kill or be killed the notion that everyone is going to play by some kind of rules is laughable. War is chaos and destruction. I understand your idea about murdering him out of revenge but I disagree, upham was justified and it was not the wrong thing to do, that guy was freed and betrayed their gift of life. That was not vigilante justice. Ridiculous. That is direct justice. I disagree with your notions of this. I think it is interesting that you will assert these things, but I think you are sterilizing humanity. It is easy to maintain moral superiority from an office chair. War is brutal. War is emotional. This view is naive. Besides, the notion that surrendering gives you POW status just by lowering your weapon immediately is asinine. You cant be in the process of murder and mayhem, see your side is loosing and just decide to save yourself and surrender. That notion has never sat well with me. Actually capturing soldiers is one thing, surrendering and automatic POW status is a cop out and personally, I think anyone surrendering should just be shot. No one would ever surrender unless they are losing, which denotes that were they not losing they would continue to massacre the other side. This in itself negates surrender as a viable option for POW status imo. Im sure this isn’t popular but it is more logical. Although, people are not logical, and neither is war.

I think everyone hated him because they blamed him for everyone's death in his squadron, when it's not really his fault, it's the war. The fact that he picked up a German helmet at the very start of movie shows that, he is neutral and he could've fought for either side.

@keenanh.crotty4783

3 жыл бұрын

That is an interesting thought that didn't occur to me. He definitely views war from a ethical standpoint - like a professor pontificating about battle. I wouldn't say he is neutral though but that he doesn't view anyone as an enemy. His difference is he eventually does give into thinking they are an enemy to punish, while the rest of the squad had no personal hatred of the Germans - they just did what they needed to survive and go home as men they can live with.

It never came across to me that they wanted to shoot steamboat willie purely out of revenge tho that was undoubtedly part of it but there was the practical concern that they couldn’t treat him like a conventional prisoner of war as they were a small band on a special mission. This is actually where the captain arguably made an error by engaging the enemy when they were on a specific mission and couldn’t take prisoners, a decision which he ultimately pays the price for , ironically at the hands of steamboat willie. I guess they could have avoided “murder” by shooting his hands or something and leaving him for either the allies or his fellow nazis to find. Tho an unanswered question is why he didn’t try to escape while they were all huddled around the medic desperately trying to save him. Or why he didn’t try to mow them down while they were huddled around the medic

Pause... mad and hateful to Upham How about be mad at the general who greenlite this in the 1st place

I can't stand this! You have no understanding of war, nor of this movie. Upham finally understood what it is to be a soldier. A soldier is there to KILL, not play out some game rooted in knightly concepts of combat between gentlemen. And don't forget, they were fighting an army filled with killers of Jews, Poles, Russians Gypsies, etc. Eisenhower did not feel they were soldiers anymore. He believed they were nothing more than murderers.

@keenanh.crotty4783

3 жыл бұрын

Totally fair to disagree with me. Not fair to say I have no understanding. From my own perspective, the movie is an anti-war film. Intended for you to know the great cost of war, both in the actual death caused by it and the way it chips away at human decency. I saw that for the reasons I stated in my video. If you don't see that, great. Good movies, which this certainly is, speak to people in different ways. I don't see it your way, but to insult my opinions, that I bothered to take the time to share with people, is rather uncouth. Further more, this IS a movie. It was made by people who aren't soldiers. It was made by artists that were making a statement. The reality of war is, OF COURSE, about killing and the mission. The average soldier doesn't consider the philosophy of it. But, this movie does. That is its mission. Lastly, the Nazis are not alone in committing evil though they were FAR worse. The American government was mostly aware of the Holocaust but did nothing to slow down its operation. We turned away Jewish immigrants right before the way. We bombed civilian targets with the "justification" of it ending the war quicker. War causes even "the good guys" to make very questionable choices. Just like how we see the Americans kill the Czech soldiers toward the beginning when they surrendered. Or how Upham executed a man who surrendered, despite him protesting that very act. Tl;dr - We disagree but don't assume I don't have an understanding.

Ok, in the military the 'mission' is top priority by necessity. Your basic job is to kill people and break things and to call it murder is childish. In the case of D-DAY the orders were to gain a toe hold on Normandy and as such there was no place to put prisoners. All allied forces on D-Day were under orders to take no prisoners as it would most certainly jeopardize the mission and the lives of countless American, British and Canadian soldiers that day. Similarly, Cpt Miller and his squad were operating behind enemy lines on a highly dangerous humanitarian mission. Allowing the captured SS German soldier at the radar station free was not a kindness it was a foolish amateur emotional or romantic action which the movie shows paid the squad back like a cobra, as that soldier is the one who killed Upham's buddy while Upham contemplated the nature and brutality of war on the steps. Later, that same SS soldier kills Cpt Miller and Upham kills him. This isn't Upham's stupid mistake we should hate him over but rather that he allowed the other SS soldiers to leave after satisfying his 'revenge' thereby allowing them to kill more allied soldiers. War isn't pretty nor is it something many civilians are capable of understanding, hell, veterans struggle with it so how can a person who has no experience in it even come close?

@keenanh.crotty4783

3 жыл бұрын

I have mentioned several times in comments that I don't have the experience with war nor do I pretend that I do. I came at this as a story, which it is, and philosophically. The narrative of the story clearly points to the human nature cost of war, which is what I was pointing out in the movie. As a reality, it is of course more complicated but it is still worth discussing the moral and ethical implications of forcing people to kill others, is it not? Also, minor point, but the solider that was freed at the radar station is not the same one that killed Mellish. He is the one that does kill Cpt. Miller though.

@SatsumaTengu14

3 жыл бұрын

@@keenanh.crotty4783 OK, interesting then. I saw the film at thetre when it was released and always thought it was the same fellow in all three cases. Thank you

you are intelligent, perceptive, hugely funny and damn good. i love listening to you...

Upham killed the whole movie for me

Interesting video! I don't think vigilante justice is unique to American culture. If you look across all the warfare and humanitarian struggles through time, the typical recurring theme is this "tit-for-tat" vengeance or retribution for a past injustice. The film eloquently leads the audience through a rollercoaster of emotions, and having thrust you into the fray at Omaha, it's easy to position oneself as "one of the team". As you say, when Upham joins the crew, we too see him as outside "our" circle, as we empathise and can almost relate to the soldiers having gone through the intro alongside them. We the audience begin to put our humanity aside and further detach ourselves from this naïve and inexperienced Corporal; often misinterpreting his humanitarian interference as weakness. We feel uncomfortable seeing him share a smoke with their new prisoner - he's the enemy, he's there to be defeated and slain! Some of this might be due to our modern understanding and rejection of Nazism, which so greatly conflicts with the current progressive mindset as to be unfathomably monstrous. It evokes such a strong feeling of vitriol that many would be willing to commit murder against any that would subscribe to it, and Spielberg knows this and dangles the carrot of moral choice in front of us, exposing our darkest inhumanity that we hold deep inside and rarely expose. We like revenge, we like eye-for-an-eye. It provides some gratification that "balance" has been preserved on a psychological level. But when you search within yourself the reasoning behind it, revenge is hatred and hatred is toxic. You can dress it up as justice or "karma" - you can remove the emotional side of hatred and pretend you are a stoic instrument of judgement, but that only proves that you are even further removed from humanity than is perhaps realised. Most of us can agree that the German arguably deserved his brief execution at the end, but when the movie ends we don't then have to live with the feeling of guilt and doubt that time whispers in your ear. We don't have to live with coming to the conclusion that it was wrong and the accompanying denial. I do believe that some people don't deserve to live: people that have done horrible, evil, unspeakable things, but do we deserve to live with their blood on our hands? To have our humanity chipped away by a swift act of revenge? I suppose it is difficult to truly understand what it feels to lose a piece of yourself, when you're in the audience, on the sidelines, rooting for someone else to do it.

Nah mate. Spielberg does holocaust and absent father movies. This is the former. You on the correct lines but you missed by a mile in your final summary.

Upam is the best and all of them upam is a actor and is just a movie lol

Great analysis .

With all due respect, now, who's the naive one?...You, yourself, get it wrong almost right from the jump!..You say that Upham wasn't "Supposed to be in this position"...I've heard others make this kind of comment before...Well, I've got news for you..Very few, if any, are "intended" to be put in that position..He was indeed trained to be in these conditions, though..He went through boot camp!..Precisely the point Capt. Miller made when he told Upham to get his gear..Asking him if he had fired his weapon in basic..Yes, was the answer.."Well, get your gear."..Coming out of basic you are a trained soldier. Period. You have no more, or less responsibility then the next guy. Physique, timidity, or MOS has zero to do with it...Those things are secondary to soldiering. Especially during wartime!

@keenanh.crotty4783

3 жыл бұрын

His inability to act when he should, and ignoring his training is not really what I was looking at. It is his lack of moral integrity that his fellow soldiers maintain. While failing his brothers in arms is a totally valid reason to hate him, I wanted to highlight his loss of humanity more so.

@keenanh.crotty4783

3 жыл бұрын

I will also concede I am naive. I am not a soldier or veteran. Therefore, I lack that perspective. That is why I chose to focus on the philosophical and narrative aspect of the character.

@sjd5750

3 жыл бұрын

@@keenanh.crotty4783 On the field of battle it's all the same when it comes to keeping yourself, and your buddies alive, who aren't really looking for you to go through your mental catalog of what is moral, and what isn't..They need to know that they can count on you instantaneously..Moral integrity only comes into being if you're ordered to do something that you deem to be morally wrong; like wiping out a village of women and children..You are duty-bound NOT to follow that order..That is a judgement call, however, and you will be brought before the man to answer for it..Other than that, when it comes to being there for your buddies, everything else is just conversation.

@sjd5750

3 жыл бұрын

@I'm The Worst Joke No, there isn't a difference. Sorry, but that's just the way it works..You ALWAYS, as a soldier, are expected to have your buddy's back, ESPECIALLY on the field of battle!...Zero excuses!..Sorry, sometimes life is tough..Simply have to suck it up, or people die...I went through basic training..It is the bottom line. Again, there are no excuses, period...Not trying to be a dick about, but that's just the way it is.

@sjd5750

3 жыл бұрын

@I'm The Worst Joke A soldier is soldier. Doesn't matter if you're an infantryman, or a paper-pusher. You are a soldier, first..It's ok, though. I understand that you don't understand. Not everyone does, I guess.

deep study, thanks dude.

It would be more accurate if it showed death more accurately. The outpost is accurate depiction of death in combat

The soldier that came down the stairs and saw upham is the same soldier they found when they killed the medic that’s why he didn’t kill upham

Upham is a coward and he will always be a coward in my eyes 🤦🏽‍♂️

@rupertsmith5815

3 жыл бұрын

Let's be honest most of us would've done the same thing .

@alaskanwhiskey

2 жыл бұрын

@@rupertsmith5815 not at all. Rather would of died defending my fellow marine(served 2016-2020) than be a coward and let him die infront of me

@rupertsmith5815

2 жыл бұрын

@@alaskanwhiskey Well thank you for your service but most soldiers on ww2 never planned to join the army and didn’t in list they were conscripted and Upham clearly wasn’t fit for it and even in the film he wasn’t a combat soldier and everybody will react differently to combat and that still happens today Marcus luttrell said he did it. kzread.info/dash/bejne/eIipyJeJgtHIdso.html

Upham is an example of political correct