people complaining about having the frostbite engine while the NHL series is STILL on ignite 🙄🙄🙄

@leetorry

5 жыл бұрын

The same goes with the UFC games I think, they use an updated versions of the Fight Night Champion engine.

@wayfastwhitey2699

5 жыл бұрын

After nhl 19...our squad is done with nhl...been playin every year since 08 and a diehard hockey fan. It sux, but done buying the garbage they keep putting out.

@ThaLiveKing

5 жыл бұрын

@@wayfastwhitey2699 the problem with NHL is that the game play is inconsistent, I think they have something good there but the game would feel on way, then the next week, it would feel different. I still enjoy threes more but its all about preferences.

@CEE80

5 жыл бұрын

wayfastwhitey26 I think it’s the same for me, for the last 4 years i’ve played less and less as each has gone by. i’ve only played like ten drop in games this year and even picked up Be A Pro and i’ve NEVER played it. I think they messed up with the ‘world of chel’ it doesn’t feel the same playing on a pond in jeans and a coat than it did playing in actually jerseys; the novelty wore off quick. Also what really killed it is EA not addressing toxicity in the community fast enough. A lot of ppl left because of the own goal, penalties, not playing your position etc etc etc. too.

@ingamgoduka5840

4 жыл бұрын

Whats NHL is it another fighting game?

Using Frostbite for everything is like saying "Steel is good for skyscrapers, let's make everything out of steel, like a hammock!"

@blitzphantom9488

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly, it was only designed for first person shooters. 🤦‍♂️

Frostbite wasn't built for anything besides FPS games. BioWare developers have claimed that frostbite doesn't have a dedicated animation system or the capabilities to do anything outside an Fps game. Doing simple things like going 3rd person was a hassle. There's many faults in frostbite when not used correctly. For FPS games, you could consider it overkill, but in this case it would be like using a tricycle for the Tour de France. I can see problems in the rendering, camera, animations and physics since these work differently from an FPS, therefore the devs have to rebuild the engine to suit the game's needs. In short: Frostbite is only good for FPS games.

@Amb252

3 жыл бұрын

Bingo

@tyoyusuf8501

2 жыл бұрын

if you dont know anyting unreal engine is just for first person shooter but epic games are better

@coffee7180

2 жыл бұрын

old comment but all engine star somewhere, frost bite just needs more tools and that's it. The performance and the visuals are still better than what unreal or any other engine is capable of, the only problem i see is in huge open world games and racing games.

@cinnamon-skateboarding5987

2 жыл бұрын

@@coffee7180 so in short: frostbite doesn't work for anything that isn't battlefield.

@superstan3290

Жыл бұрын

If you take a look at like battlefield 3 for example since that has the frostbite engine that game looks really good still does to this day

If EA would of never bought the NFL license 2K could take them outta business with another NFL 2K 💯

@Von_Bouttabag

5 жыл бұрын

Daniel Castle I can’t find any sources on that. But shit I hope

@jmgmoments

5 жыл бұрын

NFL is such as small ea game

@Mryungc88

5 жыл бұрын

then they'd use the pay to play i think for when you create a player. thats why i quit playin nba2k games

@shoblizz21

5 жыл бұрын

Doubt it will ever happen. No one goes and tries to buy the exclusive rights. It costs to much for the license and costs to much to get a new game engine. It's not plausible nowadays. Why do you think EA doesn't do baseball anymore? There's no exclusivity to it MLB. EA doesn't wanna invest the money into a new game engine and pay the MLB. It's just not gonna happen ever again. 2K will never get into the NFL again

@fatboymagic7041

5 жыл бұрын

@@USECXJ13 even if It was bro it would take 2k a couple yrs to get back to development and staffing properly that they will just resign back with ea cuz of the constant money

Frostbite is whack. It definitely didn’t feel like vintage madden. Plus Madden is super buggy , and just a bunch of repetitive animations clashing together even when it makes no sense. We shouldn’t expect Madden 20 to be any different. Ea will patch the game to death and for every patch something else will get worse.

@niloyck2540

4 жыл бұрын

D’ Angilo Hankerson Welcome 2 The Jungle frostbite is an amazing engine. That's why ea wanted to use it in every game problem is it was made by dice and was not designed for other games and developers didn't know how to use it.

@Vmh1717

4 жыл бұрын

What was the old engine called ? The ps2 madden engine was phenomenal

@yayhay1

3 жыл бұрын

Frostbite is a amazing engine but only for shooters

@Aaron-lc8nf

3 жыл бұрын

@@yayhay1 Not really. An engine isn't a "black box" that just pumps out a certain type of game, it's a series of lighting, shading, texture, animation engines that all work in tandem. Most games are made pretty bespoke using a lot of developing time. The likely reason for the bugs was the unfamiliarity of the engine to the FIFA devs

@yayhay1

3 жыл бұрын

Aaron oh thanks for the info i just getting into computer programming so I thought that some engines would just automatically be better at something than others. But thanks for correcting me now I know

Ha, I didn't like the sound of Frostbite coming to Madden as soon as I found out about it. It's not an engine for sports gaming at all and apparently it's not for a lot of games outside FPS. It's done absolutely nothing for Madden, and I think they knew it did nothing but they saw it as a good market strategy to brag about.

@blitzphantom9488

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, finally EA is going back to unreal engine for Mass Effect 4. (Thank god)

No, EA Ruined sports games. It's that simple.

@stewin4624

3 жыл бұрын

Frostbite dude he said it’s was for FPS

@stewin4624

3 жыл бұрын

NBA live movement is amazing

@Amb252

3 жыл бұрын

@@stewin4624 it's trash

EA is like most companies, they don't hire enough help and want their employees to do more than what they can handle lol. I think their problem is that they probably didn't train their staff to work with Frosbite before putting them on it. NHL has been looking into Frostbite tech for two years, but hasn't made the leap yet, I'm assuming they will next year, but if the problem is what they say it is. If not, they will probably be on it when the new gen consoles launch, next year. I'm assuming of course.

@JorgeGarcia-lr3vk

5 жыл бұрын

Can confirm dude. My bosses at work used to work at EA and they said that EA essentially encouraged a dog eat dog mentality. It is really toxic

@ThaLiveKing

5 жыл бұрын

@@JorgeGarcia-lr3vk most jobs are toxic if we are keeping it a buck. Most game developer jobs are stressful to begin with. The more jobs you have, the more you realize its the same everywhere, doesn't matter the size of the company. I always encourage people to do what they love because its healthier long term.

What the hell where they thinking, using an engine for a game type that it wasn’t meant to support?

Frostbite destroyed madden gameplay. It's now nothing but suction animations and u only get 60-70% controller of ur user or players

@dock3000

5 жыл бұрын

Madden was ruined well before Frostbite and there was suction before Frostbite was even a thought. I skipped Madden the first year they added it and played the following year's Madden...didn't even notice a difference. Jukes and spins were still not quite as responsive as usual and suction animations just seemed to happen a tiny bit closer as far as the players radius. But I had seriously forgotten I had been playing a Madden with a new engine. There was no real difference and it has been all for nothing.

@maddenfootballtalk6544

5 жыл бұрын

@@dock3000 well either way this game is hella done. It's purely lazy programming. They have no more passion for this game. It's literally gone all into mut

@isaiahbih

3 жыл бұрын

@@maddenfootballtalk6544 still relevant to this day

@maddenfootballtalk6544

3 жыл бұрын

@@isaiahbih even more smh

I don't think it's the Frostbite that's the problem. Its the gameplay that is the issue. Madden has always had predictable gameplay. AI knows your plays, audibles when u audible. Etc. Live has the AI play wayyyyy better than you. They make shots, block everything, steal everything. While u miss layups, easy jumpers, cannot block shots on the same level. Thats gameplay issues. Frostbite cannot fix that. EA has to develop sports games in the likeness of the Sports they are trying to represent.

@Amb252

3 жыл бұрын

Nba lives gameplay is stiff asf

The Frostbite engine has definitely ruined the Madden series and I think they need to do something new with NBA Live if they want to be competitive with NBA 2K games 💯

@niloyck2540

4 жыл бұрын

WESDAGOAT frostbite is an amazing engine. That's why ea wanted to use it in every game problem is it was made by dice and was not designed for other games and developers didn't know how to use it.

@Amb252

3 жыл бұрын

@@niloyck2540 it's not the problem solver for everything

@superstan3290

Жыл бұрын

That’s because frostbite is mainly used for FPS

They've ruined my football game peak years

@VicHalen07

4 жыл бұрын

F

@saltney17

4 жыл бұрын

peak years?

I started playing fifa in 09 and loved every game they came out with. Fifa 17 was the last game that felt like a fifa game. Fifa 18 was so shitty I hated it. I gave fifa 19 a chance and haven’t played since the release. I loved their ultimate team mode and spent a good amount of money on the mode every year. I was addicted. Now I don’t even think about the game cause it’s terrible. I hope they figure something out but I’m pretty sure the frostbite engine is the cause

@theerrantwanderer

11 ай бұрын

Ironically FIFA 17 was the first FIFA with the Frostbite engine

They should use the euphoric engine from the backbreacker games

@Jordan-ol8kr

3 жыл бұрын

Facts bro

Does someone know if the Frostbite Engine could be modified or at least slightly upgrade to be able to be good for other type of games? (like sports games or third person games), It seems like the developers can't do anything

@plutovr5192

4 жыл бұрын

It was made for FPS

Yes. They need to just keep Frostbite to Battlefield

@WestendoJr1

5 жыл бұрын

I completely agree with you 💯

@Drift4Drifters

Жыл бұрын

I don´t know, looks like most of them moved on to COD in the past years.

I miss when ea still used ignite on fifa

i miss ignite, it was so much better

This is very interesting in light of the nba Live franchise making the leap to Frostbite while getting its release date postponed

NHL still doesn’t have the frostbite 😑

@CanadianBongRipper

5 жыл бұрын

good

@Amb252

3 жыл бұрын

That's actually a good thing

@milsim890

2 жыл бұрын

You don’t need frostbite

@MSGBlueshirts

2 ай бұрын

now look how its changed...

EA is going down!! And that frostbite

@niloyck2540

4 жыл бұрын

Keyz_ Inc frostbite is an amazing engine. That's why ea wanted to use it in every game problem is it was made by dice and was not designed for other games and developers didn't know how to use it.

@witekkox1238

4 жыл бұрын

@@niloyck2540 Frostbite is the worst engine to make dynamic games like FIFA.

@niloyck2540

4 жыл бұрын

@@witekkox1238 true it was made for games like battlefield

@Aaron-lc8nf

3 жыл бұрын

@@witekkox1238 ironically Battlefield is one of the most "dynamic" fps games to exist An engine isn't a "black box" that just pumps out a certain type of game, it's a series of lighting, shading, texture, animation engines that all work in tandem. Most games are made pretty bespoke using a lot of developing time. The likely reason for the bugs was the unfamiliarity of the engine to the FIFA devs

@Amb252

3 жыл бұрын

@@witekkox1238 exactly

I personally don't think so because I think it's just the lack of new content on the sports franchises.

@blacktombrady3705

5 жыл бұрын

lack of content? no lack of polish the games are a mess on a gameplay stand point. everything is very scripted and the user seems to lose more and more control with every new title

@Amb252

3 жыл бұрын

Lack of content 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣go to sit in the corner

The coding is awful. In FIFA the ball is glued to characters, not independent, and the ping to ping movement makes all sorts of garbage happen like the ball going through boots, bodies, heads. You hit the post constantly, your passes don't go where you aim, battles for the ball are rigged from the moment it leaves the passer. FIFA 12 is a better game than FIFA 19. The only thing that is better is graphics, gameplay stinks and modes of course are awful. I hate UT with a passion.

Lack of modes and activities inside madden franchise and a lackluster draft experience is killing madden cuz they wanna focus on ultimate team

@CHAPEDAWG45

5 жыл бұрын

Lack of good gameplay too. Don't forget that.

@jayfeev215

5 жыл бұрын

@@CHAPEDAWG45 The gameplay aspect is an issue, but that guy is right with his original thought. Hardcore sim heads could absorb the hit of bad gameplay if the franchise experience (on so many levels) was deeper and more immersive. When you have bad gameplay and a poorly put together franchise mode that makes for a shitty game.

@Amb252

3 жыл бұрын

Everything is wrong with this game if they actually listened to the community the game wouldn't be so shit

I mean it's okay but it stops the players in somewhat reaching there full rating like my career or top speed

Henning's StarWars game was called 1313? If anyone know's for sure please let me know.

EA needs to put more effort into their games instead of just making quick cash grabs. They don’t care about quality like they did in the 2000s. Because of no competition EA can do whatever they want. This is why competition is needed. NFL 2k or some other game needs to compete with Madden for Madden to actually improve. Madden has been literally the exact same since Madden 15. It has just been minor changes and graphically upgrades. If EA focused more on creating good games then they wouldn’t be hated so much. It’s funny because they don’t get why people hate them when they only care about money and not the consumers actually buying their products. EA is one of the most hated companies in the world for a good reason. Hopefully in the future they will improve but I highly doubt it.

All my homies hate frostbite

Ya I wouldn’t blame frostbite primarily. I personally think it makes sense to get all crews on board with on me engine. Just seems more efficient. Of course that engine needs to be good and versatile. I like game modes like long shot and the journey in theory but they need to make it more personal to the player and let those things be actual career modes. The biggest culprit is that Dynamic difficulty adjustment that seems to lead to all the scripting. Biggest turnoff from the games for me. Feels like I’m along for EA’s ride instead of it being skill based

Yes. It’s terrible

Anyone ever noticed the difference in fifa 17,18,19 and 20

@matthewconnor9597

3 жыл бұрын

I hate the recent FIFA's. They don't hold a candle to the old Ignite powered ones, FIFA 14 15 16 especially. They were more fun, less boring ultra realism 1-0 one shot on target per game simulators

@Amb252

3 жыл бұрын

It's pretty much the same game

What’s up with all these half frames

I never liked Ignite for Madden. The first couple were bad with recievers always catching balls out of bounds and linebackers jumping 12 feet in the intercept passes. Then they added the button tapping to break tackles which never seemed implemented well. When they actually tried to use a physics engine which was Euphoria engine for Madden 11 it had terrible results. The truth is that most game engines still use animations in place of physics or rag doll physics. The push for such great graphic fidelity at high resolution seem to have put physics on the back burner. Its a shame really since I much rather them use better physics and scale back resoultion and graphics fidelity somewhat. To have great graphics and physics in a football game would take a great deal of processing power. They need to develop a new physics based gameplay engine and use Frostbite for graphics only. Theres just so many variables with player movement and collision in football that it would take awhile to develop. I dont think it will happen with Madden since they have to churn out a game every year. They would ideally have to take a year off to develop it and have it implemented. Maybe if they hired another developer to do it. Thats why they need to allow 2K to make another sim football game since they would put in the time to do it.

Why don't people at EA quit and start their own studio like fuck EA people are so damn scared of life and to take chances

Frostbite should be used only for FPS games

@abassalqattan7820

4 жыл бұрын

It should be use only on battlefield If it's used on other fps it would be suck and trash and I am seriously saying the truth

Long shot was on ignite engine “madden 18”

NHL 2k 2020?

nahh the way they are trying to implement it is ruining their games yes....not the engine itself. The engine is well suited for all the physics related things sports games need. The problem is EA just said ok lets just port everything over in the fastest way possible instead of teaching the other teams the engine and slowly porting it over. obv cost is a major issue there. Their approach to just rush over and bandage it while they adapt wasn't the best. Give it time though.

@Amb252

3 жыл бұрын

It's made for first person shooting games

There is rx8 in nfs rivals in thumbnail

Five full minutes to find out that you have no idea? Excellent. :P

Yes...yes it has

NHL is on Friostbite now, and the Frostbite Engine works really well for it.

@Drift4Drifters

Жыл бұрын

if you like funny bugs and scripted physics...

Everybody hates The Journey

Long shot popular ctfu that was a good one

@Dreadhead459

2 жыл бұрын

I had to rewind to make sure I heard that right

Years later, today is August 27, 2021 currently 3:44PM in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. Ok so, it's 2021, is Frostbite Engine bad for the game that use the engine, is it still bad? No, I think, look at Battlefield 2042, they have bigger maps and new 128 player count.

they fucked up with that frostbite bs should of kept it original

EA executive hurt EA! The greed to push out without refinement of software

EA ruined EA titles. Back in the late eighties/early nineties EA couldn't be touched as far as sports titles. O how the once mighty have fallen!!!

NFL 2k was better than Madden and NBA Live was better than NBA 2k. Funny how Madden and NBA 2k are more successful.

Short answer. YES. Using one engine for all sports is lazy and well frankly the results speak for themselves. Soccer isn't hockey and both aren't football (NFL) kind. One base for all games has failed except in EAs profits. They are a big bully and since noone can have the licenses for these sports they stopped trying. We are left as fans hoping for a alternative which is starting to happen. First year football games show huge promise. EA you should thank the small amount of us willing to stay a customer of your un-inspired crap.

I can't speak for Fifa as much as Madden as I'm a very casual player of that particular title. But Madden has taken a serious plunge in the gameplay department ever since Frostbite was introduced in 18. 18 was frustratingly bad but enjoyable for the most part. 19 however was a disgrace and should have never been released in that state. The gameplay and mechanics are just a mess. Judging from all of the updates EA has released this year, it's pretty telling they're just as aware as their consumers but it's beyond repair. I fear for what's to come in 20 and for years to come as football is my favorite and Madden is my favorite franchise. The only thing I can do is not purchase and hope that things are fixed in the future. Good topic SGO!

@Amb252

3 жыл бұрын

Madden is ass

hey ea i have a tip for you just use the unreal engine 4 or the unity game engine

@Amb252

3 жыл бұрын

My point exactly

They need a filter for games. Looks dark and sad.

Every frostbite game just seems a repeat of the last one without addressing the issues. I know a gaming engine shared by different games will always have similarities. Still, it doesn't justify the mistakes and errors of earlier games still showing up on later games. I mostly play RPG's, youtube probably recommended me this video because I've done a lot of searching on the frostbite engine. Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda and Anthem are all so-so to bad games spat out through the Frostbite engine with very similar defects that were never addressed. All of those games play very similarly and all of them feel bad in the same ways. Sure, there are a myriad of factors that go into a video game sucking, specially when EA corporate interference is involved as I've always felt they're not looking for the best possible video game, specially in these sport franchise yearly re-dos, but they're looking for the most sellable game to the casual masses for the least resources; But this frostbite fps engine imposition on other kinds of games just seems like a common thread between these weaker than expected (as games, not on sales and bought reviews on "expert" review websites. A quick google search will show you how they sway these people with indirect bribes and such) that we've seem on the last 5+ years.

Need For Speed Frostbite engines were amazing.

@kendalgrace9584

2 жыл бұрын

Which one?? Ha, NFS'15?.. That's it. Rivals was okay, Payback and Heat look terrible, I hope Criterion uses a new and better engine bro

Yes it has from my experience, and this is before watching the video.

Yes yes yes wasn’t all these issues prior

Live killed itself with nba elite 11 and madden 17 was trash without frostbite

I have been saying this for years FIFA has been terrible since the switch to Frostbite engine I think it doesn't suit sports games it's too slow and sluggish.

Frostbite or Microtransaction driven...call the precursors to failure whatever you want...EA needs to hit rock bottom before they will actually become self-cognizant of the bubble they currently living. Maybe....but maybe they still won't? They need to listen to their consumers more.

Frostbite was implemented in fifa 17 not 18

Yeah pretty much

Imo, Frostbite have nothing to do with that, it was the wrong direction and decisions from EA games.

@Amb252

3 жыл бұрын

The engine you use for your games has a lot to due with mechanics and gameplay

My opinion Mass Effect was really good and I loved it but battlefield 1 was great, battlefield 5 looked good but was boring after a while..

2K should buy exclusive rights to the NFL rights.

@porcupine3897

4 жыл бұрын

God no..

@Amb252

3 жыл бұрын

@@porcupine3897 it would be better than Madden

Yes it did.

Just imagine if 2K started making fifa games do you think they would do a good job?

@whoareyou3781

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely not

One game engine screws up all of EA's games? Square Enix goes through game engines like EA goes through studios they purchase. *Laughs in Crystal Tool*

Well frostbite loo really good Ex: nfs the run Eventually my pc is weak AF it still easily handled the game with greatly 30 fps EA ruined both the engine and the game with microtransactions and lootboxes

Ignite was going to be revolutionary for fifa but frostbite ruined everything

Frostbite isn't bad the issue is the preset animations, that's what's killing the game

Subscribed. Cheers from the butthole of the world 🇦🇷

Why is NBA live so bad ? they don't use the frostbite engine

@jmgmoments

5 жыл бұрын

Why is fifa so bad? Cos the engine ruins the gameplay

@Amb252

3 жыл бұрын

The frost bite engine wouldn't do to well for nba live

I thought 17 wasn't bad. Didn't play 18, 19 sucks. So yeah besides the core program of the game being outdated, the frostbite appears to have made it worse.

Using frostbite for everything was so dumb

I know I liked all the madden games a lot more bedore EA started using frostbite.

The engine is pretty bad all up, not only for sports/cinematic games. Its way too complicated (as they tried to cater for every implementation which effectively means they fail to cater for any implementation) which makes it really buggy and it looks like shite for the most part - almost like clay models.

@plutovr5192

4 жыл бұрын

It was made for FPS not sports games

@abassalqattan7820

4 жыл бұрын

@@plutovr5192 It only made for battlefield

Madden has been unplayable for years, well before the frostbite engine.

Its destroyed Fifa to the point where the game relies on Menus and gameplay has become a chore because its so unresponsive. If another dev bought the licences and made a game to compete with it im convinced everyone would leave (NOT PES). Their sports games are only successful because they have a monopoly on them.

@sportsgamersonline

5 жыл бұрын

Whats wrong with PES?

I hate it they can’t they use unreal engine for there sports games

It's weird that Madden 17 looks better than Madden 18 isnt it?

It ruined madden

why the fuck is ea a hog and does not let us use there game engine

Simple Yes!

Longshot isn't popular. Longshot is a boring pain in the ass

I think that even for FPS the Frostbite have issues. The best core gameplay from EA FPS are Titanfall (and Apex Legends), and none of both uses this engine. On other hand, COD is reigning by miles. But i dont like Frostbite since NFS 2015, and still in 2023 this engine hasnt proven to deliver a physics model more natural and less scripted. And looking for the betas for Skate, i see that they are trying to copy the physics from Skate 3, but the result is embarassing so far. I hope they stop to invest on this engine someday. Good looking games with poor gameplay core are good sellers for only 2 weeks or less. And then the backlash starts. Over and over.

this video deserves a million views🔥 its 2024 and madden is still the same 🗑🗑🗑🤣🤣

No.

Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes

Yesss 100%

this argument has been held for what, 4 years now? I don't see them going bankrupt any time soon people is still buying the buggy games and their microtransaction bullshit. We just can't complain. Stop playing the games or shut up.

This the most unrealistic football game I ever played in 30yrs!!! Especially these last 5yrs with this SHOOTING GAME ENGINE!!! “SMH” its hard for me to play Monopoly and I refuse to go to KZread when I know tha game of football no way one player can control ALL routes it’s a Shame everybody got to run the same defense and offense too compete... And for the RECORD... USERS YOU NOT PLAYING FOOTBALL YOU PLAY MONOPOLY I dare you to think you GOOD with this arcade MESS this shit worse than NFL BLITZ!!!

Yes frostbite is lame imo

@niloyck2540

4 жыл бұрын

Matt C. frostbite is an amazing engine. That's why ea wanted to use it in every game problem is it was made by dice and was not designed for other games and developers didn't know how to use it.

@Nitroblast

4 жыл бұрын

Matt C. you don't have any idea what you're talking about, pipe down 12 year old

@saltney17

4 жыл бұрын

@@Nitroblast and you do you little freak?

@frederickalexander1897

3 жыл бұрын

Like you

@frederickalexander1897

3 жыл бұрын

@@saltney17 shut up brother at least they game still good pyshic unlike cyberpunk

At least your sport games are playable and have a good building base off. If you look at the Australian sport games they are pathetic.

Y’all don’t understand coding! This makes no sense frostbite is not made for sports games….. IMO unreal would’ve been better IMO. My game is almost done I’m putting it out free not the best game but work in progress

Lol I literally commented this on the madden video hours ago lol 😂

🖐️🙄

It’s not frostbites fault the devs don’t use the engine properly

@solblackguy

2 жыл бұрын

They never get time to learn how to. This is why Mass Effect 5 is going to use Unreal 5

Frostshxt....

@UbixQ

4 жыл бұрын

Frostbite is good tho

@frederickalexander1897

3 жыл бұрын

@@UbixQ agreed they just fanboys