When you find one of these “good, decent banking systems”, be sure to let us know.

“The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....” - Noam Chomsky... this is exactly what's going on all over the world... we're being dictated the "wrong" debate... competition only leads to one result: a growing inequality... you can't control it, because the powerful eventually become so powerful that they control it... this is where we are now... we need to bring back democracy and the industries of finance, energy, medicine, food and security should be public, not private... then we need to look at the whole range of our dysfunctional thinking and put responsibility at the forefront of who we truly are...

@ExploreLearnEnglishWithGeorge

5 жыл бұрын

paradigm shift - mindfulness is the key to micro and macro management

@coreycox2345

4 жыл бұрын

@@ExploreLearnEnglishWithGeorge ?

@Anon54387

3 жыл бұрын

Making all that public is a sure path to enslavement.

@stevefromsaskatoon830

3 жыл бұрын

@@Anon54387 lol

@pedrochorao8952

3 жыл бұрын

Well the problem is the government is ruled by people who are as much addicted to power or greedy as companies employers and bankers. We are all the same flesh and blood. I strongly believe that nationalizing is long term solution as such power in such few people makes it very vulnerable to corruptio and stagnation. The rules of the game in society have to benefit good behaviours and avoid bad ones. Making it public do not most problems and create others. We need more nuance than that and surely depends of each industry and context of each country.

Well, the fact is that Capitalism is good for America but bad for the world, a lot of countries have been reduced to pauper. IMF and the world Bank must take responsibility.

@stormyweathers9887

Жыл бұрын

America being the rich bastards who light their cigars with a hundred dollar bill or the America that can't afford healthcare?

very impressed by this debate,questioner was competent.people in the audience got a say.differing views.nothing rigged.really puts our bbc to shame.

@guramritpalsingh6778

5 жыл бұрын

Lol!

@uze1196

2 жыл бұрын

6 years later and our BBC is an absolute shambles

@nem6686

Жыл бұрын

Are debates of bbc rigged?,🤣

The rich are getting richer at the expense of the poor

@Anon54387

3 жыл бұрын

A rich person doesn't have a dime of mine that I didn't freely choose to give them. Think about why this is. The preceding is true unless you are talking about Elon Musk. Now think about why THAT is.

@shezzy113

3 жыл бұрын

It means that it is very very easy for a person who is rich to get rich but because of such big companies not that big companies are going bankrupt

@gilliqbal13

3 жыл бұрын

This isn't entirely true. This is very one sided leftist arguement

@Trip4man

3 жыл бұрын

​@@gilliqbal13 Leftist argument?? Or a Realist argument?... It's an argument from someone who is deep inside the system to see it actually! Even the guy in the video said "when banks have profit they keep it to themselves, when banks have loses they distribute it to the populace". LOL You're an idiot! Even when a guy says it here bluntly, with proved facts, you dismiss it and think this is a political agenda or statement

@diverman1023

3 жыл бұрын

@@Trip4man It’s a leftist argument and it’s literally false. Your wealth is driven by your ability to provide a product or service that is in demand in a capitalist society. That is why in America we have a record number of people who start out low and become millionaires.

Ideological Capitalists are fond of claiming that capitalism brought progress everywhere it was established. But it is difficult to know for sure, because the nations that have embraced it have spent trillions of dollars making sure that no other method gets off the ground.

@ayaz372

4 жыл бұрын

you are making this comment using KZread, which is a result produced by capitalism. You are using thousands of things daily which are the result of capitalism, nothing else. I suggest you read the history of mankind before modern capitalism implementation (i-e before 1800 or so) and find examples of life people were living at that time. Today, the problem with capitalism is not inherent to capitalism itself. But it is because of government involvement at a deep level. Crony capitalism, lobbying, too-much taxation & too much government spending.

'how can anyone defend an economic model, a system, in which the richest 300 people control more wealth than 300 million or 3 billion people on this planet' Well, how many of the '300million or 3 billion' even understand the system in the first place? I'm a 19 year old (with hardly any knowledge of economics) on the verge of entering the 'real world', already stressed out of my mind about the effect money has on quality of life. It seems only those in the system can even think to defend something as heinous as this. I don't even know what to say

By year 2020 Capitalism will face a decline unimaginable. Write down and remember.

@piehamcake1

8 жыл бұрын

you mean central banks and fiat currency will fail. capitalism on its own has never failed.

@ZEEECHET

8 жыл бұрын

+piehamcake1 amen

@vexintersect1312

5 жыл бұрын

Hey this looks like it's going to happen, with more and more left wing politicians moving to the left by supporting Medicare for all and the green new deal. 2 democratic socialists in the American Senate. It's looking like we can see significant policy change in the near future.

@sirellyn4391

4 жыл бұрын

@Ross MacKenzie I love capitalism, but a market crash will come again. And likely soon. The fools will blame capitalism, ignoring central banks are anything but capitalist.

@hassan1804

4 жыл бұрын

Yep its here lol

Workers of the world unite! All we have to lose are our chains!

Capitalism was associated with freedom when the communists where the enemy. But capitalism (de-facto the worship of money as a religion) is compatible with any ethos. Slave trade anyone?

The first lady to speak, drew first blood straight away. Condemn the Politicians without fear.

Capitalism requires growth quarter by quarter. Growth requires consumption. Consumption requires resources. Resources are finite. Is capitalism sustainable?

@piehamcake1

8 жыл бұрын

that's not true. central banks require our economy to grow quarter by quarter in true capitalism with free market banking it's perfectly ok for the economy to shrink and then let it grow again. and benefits the poor the most and hurts the rich. in a economy with a central bank (federal Reserve) the rich always win and the poor always lose. read the creature from jekyll island.

@jakeXF5

5 жыл бұрын

Why capitalism requires growth? It may lead to growth but it doesn't require it.

I keep coming back to this debate

The problem faced by most major economies is that a majority of capital is trapped in the form of real estate property. Think about the money that could be channelled into consumption instead of being used to service a mortgage. While the prices of real estate goes up, so do the size of your mortgages; there is less money for people to spend and less consumption to drive economic growth.

@sds7870

9 жыл бұрын

Gregory Ho true but then in the uk you have a government which subsidise help to buy and make things worse not better.there creating there own downfall by pusting the prices up and forcing people into debt,try saving up for an house,impossible because the prices rise faster than your saving which shouldn't be the case.

Keep passing the responsibility away from your pals, Mr Adair.

I think these men with their capitalists ideology have been manipulating the global economy using their professional jargon...the vivid example is the credit facilities given to developing countries by the international financial institutions in which the governments of such states were subjected to strict capitalist economic policies that continuously leaving their people in abject poverty, and yet they have to pay back such loans with skyrocketing interest rates. The financial inequality will continue until the global financial economic policy makers get it right. Kudos to Mr. Mehdi Hazan.

4 years after, with the world crumbling and inequality exploding, this show seems more actual than ever

I wish Mehdi probed more on the usury topic. That is the crux of matter - the interest!

What review did the gentleman suggest towards the end? (The one about the bonuses to employees exceeding dividends to shareholders)

Mr. Turner's last statement included change the rule to the game...I don't think people comprehend his decision to use such a word to describe this system as a game...we don't have to play this game but ignorantly we play because we have become satisfied with illusions created by those having present power...serious dilemma we are in these days...

Anyone have a link to that HomeStreams guy at 38:00 or so?

This certainly shows the flaws at the heart of capitalism.

@sprobablycancr4457

4 жыл бұрын

The marble floors.

Excellent speaker! And great comments made from the audience as well!

The end of capitalism The purpose of capitalism is to drive growth of the economy. It uses human greed to motivate people to work. In the sense that capitalism and greed fuelled the industrial revolution, they are a good thing. However, the purpose of accelerating growth is to reach a point where we have enough collective wealth, enough technology and enough intelligence to be able to support everyone. Once this point is reached the purpose of capitalism has been fulfilled and it becomes necessary to change the rules. At this point the quality of greed, which could previously be seen as a necessary evil, no longer becomes necessary. Greed is to be replaced with altruism and selfless service to society as the driver of growth. We have reached this point.

@maximus0307

9 жыл бұрын

well said, but capitalism or over growth only helped to destroy our planet so fare, and it only help a few, so te majorities need to take the wealth of the few and spread it and do to the few what the french did to their king during their revolution... capitalism is the idea that we can always grow, but that was shown not to be possible, well not at the rate we are accustomed to... we have had overgrowth for decades so we need to go back to a more reasonable kind of growth...

@wincim17

9 жыл бұрын

david maltais What the FEW need to do is use their drive, ambition and education to obtain their own wealth .. get off their lazy a$$ and quit thinking someone else owes them something..

@johnnybizaro1

9 жыл бұрын

You mus-understand life and death. It can't be just static, we are living beings. The need to continual renewal is what is nature. It is the animal spirits that drive the will to live. I can accommodate that we need new rules and new thinking rather then the old tired policies that have led from one crisis to another.

@devilsshield

6 жыл бұрын

So what is your alternative that you propose? Communism? I am serious. I agree Capitalism sucks, but it's better then socialism and communism for sure.

@edebs6243

6 жыл бұрын

Dobromir Ivanov How do you know it's better than communism or socialism? Are you sure that you are using accurate definitions?

Marx was right, sadly few actually read Marx. Many read what capitalist's think of Marx but not Marx himself leaving them blind.

@guilhermehazam9688

7 жыл бұрын

lol he was so right that every country that slithely leans towards marxism fails miserably and its population face famine

@alexanderwhitehorse8934

7 жыл бұрын

I'm sure you meant slightly. And what would you define as a miserable failure? The success of a country can be measured by something more than its rulers, its military budget, its instruments of dominance and destruction, and its profiteering giant corporations. Certainly these countries that "slithely leans" towards a Socialist government are far from perfect but at least they strive to have more democratic institutions, create a society free of poverty, racism, sexism, exploitation, imperialism, and environmental devastation. As with famine, there are far more factors involved in famines that occur all over the world not merely because of Marxism. Besides, most of the statistics that are propagated about famines in Socialist countries are heavily skewed or are outright falsehoods. With a statement as that the same could be said for the inverse. For example, how cash crops are grown in Latin American countries for the purpose of being sold in the United States while the citizens of those exploited countries starve and die.

@DivergentStyles

7 жыл бұрын

Luiz Motta You do realise that any country that dares to become communist, or when the communist parties even gain a litle momentum within that country.. At that moment they will get heavely sanctioned, (demonised by the media) and threatened by the UK, Israeli and the US bases of capitalism. The civillions will have a setback because of these sanctions but to blame the sanctioned and threatened for the dispair of their people.. goes beyond the therms cruilty and hypocricy. Do you have morals that take into consideration: the well being of other people in general?

@normalizedinsanity4873

6 жыл бұрын

No they don't. They are brainwashed and lack the emotional maturity to feel empathy for others and are petty infantile children that see this as a some sort of bizarre competition

Interesting debate - with multiple viewpoints presented - and some ulterior motives laid bare (if one carefully parses the careful selection of words used to describe the actions, consequences, and failures of the banking system)

Adair Turner has complete contempt ...and he knows he is untouchable... these are the people who run banks and money...

@LondonLadsArt

6 жыл бұрын

Adair is like asking the fox to guard the chickens...again untouchable.

10:38 wtf is with economists and economics that after 40 years in banking, a top financial regulator comes to a realization of what banks do? HILARIOUS!

@giddy5611

4 жыл бұрын

Bo's'n Bruce hahah he meant after i got rich i realized the purpose of my degree and studies

Great post sir. I like your avatar as well.

Loved Ann bringing up usury 😍

This is a great show

wonderful debate

I think what we have to do is to take action rather talking who is going to take the blame as by debating it does not help at all.

Brilliant! well said

Great debate

“And if you obey most of the people on Earth, they will lead you astray” [Quran, sura al-Anaam 116] al anaam ironically means cattle.

Uncommonly good debate.

This is an interesting point that I can agree with

short answer - YES massively peace M

Nobody spoke about capitalism as a system. The topic looks deceiving. They only spoke on the crisis. Apart from the question raised by one gentleman on Full reserve banking none of them challenged the system........Questions should have been more about corporations and banks are allowed to dictate the system, discrepancy in incomes between people. Why follow a system that is unstable, fractured and unregulated.....

@fishysnake1

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the tip, Adnan. I might skip this one.

@nevadataylor

6 жыл бұрын

So whats the point in having a flawed system that can be continually 'dictated'? In other words, when in the history of capitalism, has capitalism been without cronyism? Never, it will always be a system to have a small group of people dictate to the remaining majority, how we are to live.

there is a problem with escaping the model in it's fundament.... There is essentially no alternatives, what can be done is to find ways to make the economic systems immune to attacks.

Yes it has.Capitalism fails humanity.

I thought so as well and many, if not all, of their ideas were interesting and would probably be helpful if implemented. The question remains what will be implemented and when. Time's a wasting.

is the sir at 44:10 proposing socialism for UK>?

I must begin by saying what a good job Mehdi Hasan did in chairing this debate. I was surprised that no one mentioned the tripartite arrangement that replaced some 213 years of BoE governance of banks with a three party fog. The FSA was hitting the banks with millions of pages of regulations but none of this related to the big issue, over-leverage. I was surprised that no one mentioned the BoE raising interest rates far too late to stop the housing bubble. The BoE took interest rates from 3.5% to 5.5% in short time only to have to crash them to 0.5% in short time because it had missed the boat on the housing bubble. Jon Moulton introduced the fact that there had been next to no austerity but was shut off by Ann Pettifor. To recap. Jon stated that Labour had increased state spending by 61% and the coalition had only cut it back by 3%. Government spending has increased ever year since 2010. It is legitimate to ask "What austerity?". Public sector debt was never mentioned. Yes we do have the highest debt in the world made up of private, corporate and public. But did you know that your servants, doing your bidding, ran up a national debt of £25,000 per man, woman and child come 2010 and that since the national debt has doubled since 2010 it is now £50,000. The electorate and the BBC were also asleep at the wheel when giving Labour three terms. I always welcome comment.

the poor keep the poor .the rich do not pay as much tax as the poor o/o wise.

A great debate. It's a pleasure to hear a civilized debate without the ridiculous labels you hear in the media.

Full reserve banking or at least a Limit to the leverage is the way to go..

how do you know about fiat money

Yes, yes, I do realise I was a bit hasty, someone else also corrected me on Lapavistas. Regardless, I think that whole side of the debate was kind of sidelined. Like you say, no one asked any hard hitting questions on the systemic failure, rather there was a focus on particular problems of lack of regulation, etc.

The problem is capitalism, capitalism facilitates this type of behavior we have seen it time and time again.

Let's just hope security will not get completely privatised.

So we should find a way to equally share "blessings".

I should establish a bank.

Was just watching a documentary of an economist trying to find the solution for the problems that occur in the banking system. I saw him struggling with his cognitive dissonance. Economist: Directors are not bad people, blah,, blah, blah. My view: You can't jail someone for legitimized hacking of the system, which is greed and power politics through capitalism. You can't unemotionalize, demotivate and apathethicize a whole banking reward system. The main goal of capitalism is how the incentive is realized. Whic is the rate in which compound interest with all methods available in increased. This is causing psychologically the upward spiral in greediness. It is obvious Bank directors whole job objective is greed, which is a vice, promoted as a virtue, the sinister part is, that this vice, generates exorbitant wealth, and destroys competition, Internationally. Economics is --- war tactics --- Economics has nothing to do with service, the only service is progressivity -- It has to do with international war against opponents who fight for power in politics---- This is Elitism and Power politics. Economic Darwinism, the survival of the most powerful, and finance rhymes on violence.

Why are Bankers held up to the same scrutiny as a Vegas casino?

Is there another model that works without additional suppression of democracy and civil rights? Genuinely asking.......

They didn't even talk about fiat money which is one of the biggest reasons we are in this mess. As well as extraordinary amounts on interest in loans that they know people will never be able to pay back basically becoming their slave for the rest of your life.

Yes.

The Glasstegal rule was in place long ago until it was eliminated by Bill Clinton. This rule kept the banks as two separate entities, the normal commercial side of Keeping customer's monies safe and the INVESTMENT side where the banks can "Gamble " their own money as they see fit. Once the rule was eliminated the banks were then given the go ahead to gamble their customer's money into whatever risky business they see fit. Why wasn't this brought up in the discussion??

39:18 lol

All the boloney aside ‘Dishonesty’ is the main problem with the world’s Financial System.

We need a robin hood tax

@piehamcake1

8 жыл бұрын

Robin hood stole from the government and gave the people their taxes back. your right we need Robin hood to help us abolish taxes.

@Rob-fx2dw

7 жыл бұрын

You are right - Robin hood was an Anti tax man. Returing taxes form the governing body to those who had paid them.

@bobphin6454

7 жыл бұрын

is that a tax on ski masks used in robberies?

14:24 Wise Words

Yes you're right, he is. I was wrong. Regardless, he barely gets a word in. The whole discussion is one sided. I should have rather said that anti-capitalism is underrepresented here.

Al Jazeera, come on. You don't have a single anti-capitalist there. How can you debate the capitalist system if you don't have BOTH sides of the debate present?!?!?!

42:29 wtf lol

So-called 'corporatism' (most people don't realise corporatism does not refer to corporations) and crony capitalism are, in fact, the natural outcome and evolution of capitalism.

It is the few rich who used the system to claim on the back of the poor,is the worst danger to any financial system. If poverty is not irradicated The few rich will get a very rude awaking.

Yeah..I see what you mean, although a complete system crash would be devastating. Global poverty would spike within weeks. Hopefully we’ll find a better ship before the current one sinks.

I had a diffucult time believeing this would be like a discussion of the sort of Tom Friedmans. Aidar Turner is definetly, at least in the last few years, more reasonable(perhaps even more radical) than Mehdi Hasan realises! At least before the interview starts!

I randomly typed in Bring down capitalism

Saying that there are "bad" bankers and what not, but then not having consequences is absurd. String the lot of them up and have done with it.

I agree completely but do you have a solution to this conundrum? Most countries these days need a competitive monetary system to compete with economic giants such as China or India. It’s also very difficult to change the rules of 'capitalism' in an international market. If a nation were to play with slackened ‘self-interested’ values it wouldn’t survive very long in the international economic race. I’m not attacking your comment btw, just looking for a solution.....if there is one.

Back in the days I was able to get 50.000 euro which I partly did not use and partly invested in the wrong people and the wrong business, still ouch. I could have been lucky though. I do not regret getting the amount.

1. Blame the regulators because it is impossible to regulate capitalism. 2. Blame the economists because it is impossible to regulate an economy. 3. Politicians can be blamed because they are politicians. Can you expect anything more from a politician? I blame people who are naive enough to think that politicians are going to do the right thing. Deregulation does not exist when you have regulatory agencies in existence.

I find it odd that this video has so few views even though it's 100 percent true. Is it because if people don't see this video then it never happened?

@pedrochorao8952

3 жыл бұрын

No it is because few people care about these matters. It is not a click bait video. I find it interesting tough!

I don't know sir. I like where I live. We Dutch have the so called 'poldermodel' where everything is consensus based + our companies and banks are more concentrated on long-term profit instead of short term profit. I assume you are American by the way, correct me if I'm wrong.

With Turner as the guest you were never going to get much in the way of dissident radicalism.

Wow! An ex-banker and ex-regulator promoting an end to austerity and the use of high levels of public investment/deficits to stimulate growth! Wow! Never thought I'd hear common snse and sound MMT macroeconomics from a banker!

See the film "The Big Short" to get an idea what really goes on.

Corporatism or "crony" capitalism is still a form of capitalism. Stop making excuses.

Also, they're doing ALLOT of hyperbolic speaking here and touching on a plethora of economic subjects/topics without touching on the basic and seemingly fundamental issues like fiat currency problems, politicians, mass corruption, unchecked greed/manipulation etc. etc.

Why are banks allowed to lend money they don't have?? I can't lend money I don't have!

I cannot believe that nobody called Lord Adair Turner on naming the poorest people in US, "the bottom quarter, the losers". Hasan would have normally reacted right away. Even though Turner specifically says that he is not egalitarian nor socialist.

The solution is nationalism. Without being able to punish people for exploiting a country the country cannot defend itself.

Yes, they are. We can say little for certain about Paleolithic societies, but the notion that they all lived in perfect harmony and didn't discriminate is really outdated. I refer mainly to evolutionary biology, the way animals behave, the way we behave. There are two good books on the subject, that cover the same thing, "The Selfish Gene" (Dawkins) with a more scientific approach, and "The Altruism Equation: Seven Scientists Search for the Origins of Goodness" (Dugatkin), more historical.

What? Wage-labour didn't exist before 1913? Neither did mass production? Come on...! Proto-industrialisation introduced commerce and merchant capitalism, the Industrial Revolution introduced modern capitalism.

There are few solutions to this problem of indebtement ofpeople and governments, do like Iceland and put the bankers in jail and go bankrupt. No more debt to anyone. Ank work out a better way, maybe using Iceland's way as a model

@sds7870

9 жыл бұрын

maurice violette true but then they went back to electing the same people who got them into the mess in the first place.

@ev6304

5 жыл бұрын

Also then their debt becomes insanely expensive

Capitalism does not with central banks and legal tender. It never ceases to amaze me how they blame a lack of regulation for economic failure when there has been regulation on the books for a long, long time. Blame the central bankers or fiscal or monetary policy (both a government phenomena ... not free market capitalism).

Bankers want MONEY, nothing else, I have 2 gold teeth can I use them as collateral?

Capitalism some times fails communism always fails

we must know the problems all about the true scenario which took place into crises and critique so on so far because it went on the fruitful and favorable elements to only capitalism not just about peoples investments in all banks of U.K . and finally we are in deep down surrounding problems of investments this is the lost of investors not for public so ..

Holy Fuck I never thought I'd hear a Lord say some of this truth

You can change the human nature by education. Yes we are greedy and altruistic at the same time, but with education we can shift the balance in the favor of altruistic and ethical values. We can see nowadays how different countries are more altruistic because the enforcement of that value from their parents and/or schools.

How can banks or business's make ''profit'' The only way, is to demand that more is paid back than is loaned or more is charged for goods than they cost . Guess who therefore creates these '''profits''' YOU !!!!

Yes this is no longer Capitalism, but it certainly is a product of Capitalism. It's a bitter pill to swallow but the first step to recovery for an addict is acknowledgement.

He was trying way too hard to share the blame.

The problem is not capitalism, it's human beings (and the values they hold). As long as there is selfishness and greed, any system will become corrupt, because of the persons/people in it! Don't put the cart before the horse.

What do you people think about Venus Project or basic income?

@creamone

8 жыл бұрын

+Azzataky Venus Project in the long run would have to be the solution. Short term Basic income would work.

@isenhand

8 жыл бұрын

+Azzataky TVP is basically in the right direction but has a number of problems as it stands at the moment. One of which is lack of testing. It needs testing to verify what it claims. There are other similar ideas out there that are also worth while looking (such as EOS' Design) at but again, they also need testing before they can become a viable alternative.

@nevadataylor

8 жыл бұрын

+Azzataky Awesome!

@veganath

8 жыл бұрын

+isenhand agree with the testing for TVP. I would have thought that the repeated boom/bust cycle of our current socioeconomic system, our global life supporting system increasingly declining and the associated pain endured might have been the impetus for a philanthropic high net worth individual to step up with the finances to embark on the construction of a model city as per Jacque Fresco's design, sadly I don't think Jacque will live to see his wonderful vision come to be. The question is how bad does it have to get before we change direction?