3rd time viewing this powerful lesson. This troubled me! It appeared to me that Joseph Smith, Jr might have committed adultery. One day while thinking on it the Holy Spirit spoke to me these words which was a rebuke “Whether or not Joseph Smith, Jr. committed adultery is none of your concern, that is between him and Me, you are to be concerned with your own standing”. That set me straight, for I needed to improve my standing in His Church. I was no longer in question of the subject. I know that Joseph Smith Jr. is the prophet of the Restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am a former Baptist minister and found this the Restored Church of Jesus Christ 51 years ago. I am 83 years of age and a Ward organist.

@ronpalmer2u

Жыл бұрын

@@corybritton1966 I have studied Joseph Smith, Jr. for 52 years and I know the Factual Truth. The Church of Jesus Christ is the Restored Church of Jesus Christ. Elijah the prophet did appear in the Kirkland Temple an conferred his priesthood keys to begin the work for our fathers in the spirit prison and paradise. This work is done in the Temples dotting the earth. I was a Baptist minister and know the doctrine of the different churches that profess Jesus Christ and I condemn none of them, they believe in Jesus Christ and their Heaven is the Terestial Kingdom which they describe. There are 3 Heavens or Degrees of Glory. The highest Heaven is the Celestial, which is the residence of Heavenly Father which requires th3 Priesthood of Jesus Christ. You have the Gospel but not the Fullness of the Gospel which was restored in 1830 and only the Restored Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has the Keys to this Priesthood, the High Priesthood, which is available to all that will receive it. Your knowledge is limited to the lower knowledge of the Gospel, the 10 Commandments or Carnal Law. The Higher Law you do not understand. I know my Redeemer Jesus Christ and I follow Him. Your condemnations mean nothing as it comes from a state of ignorance to the Truth of the Gospel. I hope you find your way brother. I love you all.

@3thingsfishing427

Жыл бұрын

Native Americans have 0% Middle Eastern DNA. Humans are gullible creatures. You have been duped my friend.

These are really difficult questions and I respect your courage to honestly address these issues. For so long these stories were dismissed as anti-Mormon lies. It has been a trial for me to learn that these stories were honest accounts of those around the prophet Joseph. It is inevitable with the advent of the internet that members of the church will all have to reconcile these things with their faith. The approach you’ve taken here is a good example of how it can be done faithfully. I don’t necessarily interpret the accounts the way you have presented them but that’s ok and you’ve done a great job.

@tarabence

2 жыл бұрын

Anthony, I can relate to this. I remember trying to understand our church history and being told i was reading "anti-mormon literature" when in reality, it was just truth. Very confusing!

@jennyelsie

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed!

Hard to wrap my head around why the Lord would send an Angel to come with a sword and threaten his life if he didn’t enter into plural marriage.

@oatmealmonkey9130

2 жыл бұрын

It reminds me of Numbers 22. Both cases were prophets not doing what they should (or doing what they shouldn't). I'm thinking it might well be symbolic of the spiritual aspect of intentionally going against God's commands, especially as a prophet. It in effect says, "no this isn't a light matter of you dragging your feet and making excuses, this is you rebelling against me, and (spiritual) death comes from that." If the angel with the flaming sword wasn't sent, and the polygamy issue turned Joseph away from following God, is that enough knowledge turned to rebellion to qualify for outer darkness? If it is, that's a big deal! I think it's worth getting the sword out, if it will prevent that.

@kathleensmith8969

2 жыл бұрын

@@oatmealmonkey9130 that puts it more into perspective. Thank you 🤓

@GrgMRnlds86

2 жыл бұрын

Another thought… President Woodruff once said that the Lord would never allow His prophet to lead the church astray and if the prophet ever tried, he would be removed (maybe what the angel was there to do if Joseph didn’t obey). To be clear, that’s not the same as saying the prophet can never make a mistake. I’ve often wondered if the Lord knew that plural marriage was necessary during those early stages of the church and that if the prophet did not teach that to the church (and be an example himself), the church may not have survived. According to historians, the population of the Church in those early days did not grow faster than other populations, even with the implementation of plural marriage, which makes sense because such a small percentage of men practiced plural marriage. But, many of the most faithful men and women did enter into plural marriages which brought about more children within those devout families (of course I’m speaking generally, I’m sure there are some exceptions). For many, many generations, a very large chunk of the missionaries of the church descended from families who practiced plural marriage. It makes sense to me that in this case, speaking of building up the early church, the Lord commanded it for a wise purpose to build up a righteous seed unto the Lord. There is evidence that suggests that plural marriage was also practiced in the early church during the time of Christ and His apostles. But during the time of the Nephites in The Book of Mormon, it was forbidden and considered a grievous sin. So, it seems to me that the Lord dictates when it is necessary. As for the debate on whether it’s required for exaltation, I don’t know. I tend to believe that Celestial marriage (being sealed in the temple for time and eternity) is required (the scriptures seem quite clear on that), but plural marriage may be one of those things that the Lord requires at times when it is necessary for His work of salvation to move forward, but it’s not something that everyone will be required to do for exaltation. I am totally open to the idea that I’m wrong in this opinion, but that’s what makes sense and sits well with me.

@rabbithole2015

2 жыл бұрын

@@GrgMRnlds86 I'm a decendant of mormon plural marriage and I'm no longer a member. So in my family it stops with me. Thankfully I have Jesus.

@mrs_elsewhere2111

2 жыл бұрын

@@GrgMRnlds86 if the purpose of plural marriage was to have more children and “build up the Kingdom,” where are all the children from the 34 women to whom Joseph was married?! Emma got pregnant every time Joseph sneezed…some would say that this is proof that the marriages weren’t consummated, however there is much evidence that they in fact were. In the beginning polygamy was secretive and pregnancy would have spoiled that so steps were taken to avoid pregnancy. This part of church history is bad and calls into question the legitimacy and credibility of JS as a prophet, which then calls into question the legitimacy of the BOM. Sorry, but that is a hard truth. One that I have not been happy to learn.

The better question to start out with is “who was the first LDS polygamist“? It was not Joseph Smith, the first LDS polygamist was Brigham Young. For clarification the next question should be “are you saying that Brigham Young took multiple wives before Joseph Smith did“? No, not at all. I am saying that Joseph Smith repeatedly preached that polygamy was not of God, polygamy is adultery, polygamy is not to be practiced, and he even taught that God has never commanded anyone at any time to take more than one wife. So what I’m saying is that Joseph Smith never took more than Emma to be his wife. Joseph Smith never practiced polygamy. Joseph Smith never had any sexual relations with whoever with other women. Joseph Smith was a man of God, a true prophet of God, and he certainly was not a sexual deviant. The rumor mill became church history. How very unfortunate this happened. Joseph Smith never married anyone else’s wife. He never married or had any sexual relations with young girls. All of these rumors cropped up 40+ years after his death. It’s very unfortunate that church leadership doesn’t take a stand and clarify through church history. Joseph Smith never married more than one woman. The church is true but the written history on polygamy is completely false.

@karenhyatt647

4 ай бұрын

Love it! When I saw that D&C 132 directly contradicted Jacob 2, I rationalized, "Well, I guess the D&C is more recent..." instead of what I should have said: "The Book of Mormon is the most correct book"! I'm so sad I only started looking into the polygamy question a few years ago. It's crystal clear once you do, isn't it? It's so funny that "historians" always say that the reason we don't have any contemporary records of Joseph's marriages is because he had to be secret about it. Didn't Brigham have to be secret about it? Yet we have records of his abominations. He is on record marrying a plural wife, Augusta Cobb, for instance - while she was married to another man, no less. Her husband, Henry Cobb, sued Augusta for adultery when she ran off with Brigham - and won. It is a matter of record. Didn't William Clayton need to keep it secret? Yet his mission journal is full of his drinking beer, staying up late, and getting his feet washed and doing something that is redacted with a woman who was not his wife. We have contemporaneous records for lots of this "secret" stuff - but ZERO for Joseph or Hyrum. Just vague, unsubstantiated accusations from their enemies, and decades-old, post-martyrdom "testimonies" from polygamous people living in Brigham's Utah. Thank goodness for Whitney Horning, Rob Fotheringham, Mark Curtis, Michelle Stone, and others for bringing attention to the real history. (Sorry for the long reply - I'm working on a movie about it, so I'm probably a little over-enthusiastic right now...)

If plural marriage is for the purpose of raising up seed, she didn't answer at 33:56 WHY Joseph had sex within some of these plural marriage unions and yet there's no proven posterity. She simply emphasized there's no known posterity of Joseph outside Emma. Our church IS (finally) acknowledging Joseph consummated some of these plural marriage relationships. So, why did he have need to have sex when he didn't raise up any extra seed? It contradicts the reason cited in this video for polygamy. Lynn, please answer.

@PainH8er

2 жыл бұрын

I’ve thought a lot about this question. I looked at it from his wives perspectives. Don’t they get to have intimate relationships? If Joseph was their husband, who else can they have relationships with? Or were they expected to be virgins for their entire lives? I’m not defending it, but I had to look at it from the wives perspectives.

@jennyelsie

2 жыл бұрын

@@PainH8er thanks for your answer! That is a good pt! I suppose I *am thinking about the wife's perspective, but specifically I'll admit my empathy *only lies with Emma. Because she didn't agree to or know about some of these marriages, the fact that some of them were comsumaated must have been even more devastating. Maybe I'm just strange but if I were a plural wife Joseph, knowing through the grapevine how Emma felt (because church history illustrates Emma's distain for it WAS known) and that I likely had other options for marriage for "time" outside of Joseph, I can say I would NOT have agreed to consummate that sealing. I honestly can't fathom how any of these plural wives even felt ok consummating it. I couldn't do that and know how it pained Emma, even if we weren't friends. But that's the empath in me.

Thank you so much for bringing knowledge and perspective forward. Thank you for your dedication and faith. It is refreshing to have someone searching for the good and not condemning the Prophet Joseph Smith. If our own lives were scrutinized as his has been and we were judged as he has been, we would be much more careful in our haste to judge. You have done a great job. Thank you so much!

This is probably the best explanation on the subject of plural marriage I have seen.

Another fantastic video! Thank you!

Thank you so much for sharing your insights and research into the practice of plural marriage by the early saints. A lovely clear presentation. I was just reading section 132 and there certainly was the light and presence of the Holy Ghost there which confirms to me it's divine origin through the prophet Joseph Smith. Certainly a severe test for them and it is for Saints today but as you say ask of God which brings us back to how it all started. James 1:5 God bless you and all your loved ones. Great job 💝

@rolfdevries6487

2 жыл бұрын

00

I took the scriptures and read a lot and took my time and ask the Lord. I felt at peace and comfort I never really worried about that subject any more

Your testimony and lesson videos are wonderful. I love them all. I have learned to love Joseph & Emma Smith more and more. What he endured is remarkable and showed his faith, which inspires me to do more and be a better person. Thank you.

@rabbithole2015

2 жыл бұрын

What he endured? He wasn't a victim.

Thank you for this video on such a difficult and complex subject.

If you hadn’t been born into the church, would you choose to dismiss Joseph’s behavior?

Thank you for your explanation. I found it helped some of the questions I had about this commandment.

This is a fantastic findings about plural marriage, I know from the beginning that it was from God, but I don’t have any evidence but I feel it in my heart, a lot of questions asked about this, especially labeled our Prophet Joseph, but I really humbled myself, and said to my heart no one on this earth know about Gods mysterious ways, ONLY Him HIMSELF. Thank you so much for taking your time doing your research to let the world know about the truth of plural marriage. Your findings is very clear and precise if we have the spirit of understanding in Gods way not human. I really support your findings. Bless your heart Sister.

@3thingsfishing427

Жыл бұрын

You “don’t have any evidence, but you feel it in your heart.” If that doesn’t sum up Mormonism, I don’t know what does!

Didn’t really seem like he was asking Emily or Eliza Partridge to “pray about their decision” to marry him when they were both cornered by Joseph and their father, and told that their entire family’s salvation would be at stake if they didn’t accept. Oh, and that they had an hour to think it over, and then were both told not to tell the other one that they had been married. They were young girls. You don’t turn down the Prophet when put in a pressured situation like that.

@Stacynredd

2 жыл бұрын

🚩🚩🚩

@gnome3leader

2 жыл бұрын

@@casadelswain434 Think I’ll shoot for the telestial kingdom. Don’t really want to be in a heaven with a God who would sanction this.

@lynnewilson4084

2 жыл бұрын

You can talk to them in heaven. I have read enough of their journals to disagree with you on this one.

@majesticliberatoroftheoppr3971

2 жыл бұрын

The implementation of this commandment could have been done better but that is just us being armchair quarterbacks. Could you and I have done it better? Are we willing to go through the garbage that Joseph had to go through only to be shot to death in the end? I choose to reserve judgment on how it was implemented because only Christ walked the earth perfectly. Don’t lose sight of the beauty of the gospel because of a few perceived dandelions. My best wishes to you sister

@elizacragun4697

2 жыл бұрын

Totally agree. This looks really bad from our perspective.

I absolutely love these answers to hard questions in church history! This is by far the best explanation of plural marriage I've ever heard. Thank you!!

@tdubs5128

2 жыл бұрын

I don't believe plural marriage has ever been of God. I believe this is a man made idea and it has only caused heartache and conflict.

I love your ending thoughts, it puts things into perspective.

This is still a very difficult, topic. I appreciate your description however, as a woman, I will never feel comfortable with this concept.

Was it recorded anywhere that anyone else saw an angel? I haven’t finished the video yet but am wondering what your thoughts are on Emma’s denial of Joseph having participated in polygamy?

Thank you very much for your scholarship and testimony. Your words are inspired. 😊

Thanks for your hard work and research on this issue. I’m going to use your handout when I have to teach the Gospel Doctrine class on this. Well done.

Frankly I am finding the polygamy deniers are putting out convincing arguments.

What a great effort you have taken my dear sister. We're so thankful for your efforts of making research on this hard subject. I was wondering how the discussion would be on this concept of polygamy but the Scriptures tell and the Spirit would guide. It's a very hard but interesting subject for this coming Sunday. We're sure, our Prophet JOSEPH SMITH did not commit adultery...that's true my dear sister, he's chosen by God to become a prophet of HIS Church. The TRUE AND LIVING CHURCH ON THE FACE OF THIS PLANET. We're so grateful of our Prophet, we enjoy the fruits of THE RESTORATION OF THE FULLNESS OF THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST BECAUSE OF HIM. NEVERMIND THIS PRACTICE OF POLYGAMY ...it was a REVELATION FROM GOD FOR A REASON. AND FOR THAT PERIOD .WE LOVE OUR PROPHET, JOSEPH SMITH!

@madisonthompson8756

2 жыл бұрын

Temple lot case?

Thank you!

4th time viewing, yes I agree it was difficult. All things had to be restored and it was done. Thank You

36:53: if women and men have agency and a choice to practice plural marriage (when called upon by God/a prophet), then why was Joseph "exempt from the Law of Sarah" as mentioned in D&C 132 and, at times, able to practice without Emma's knowledge or consent? This DOESN'T make me feel hopeful that your proclamation about a wife being able to choose or deny plural marriage in the Celestial Kingdom is accurate. If Joseph could be exempt from the Law of Sarah and do it anyway to "follow God," in this life, why would it be any different for other women in the Celestial Kingdom??? Lynn, please answer.

@redexon

2 жыл бұрын

It's in the happiness letter to Nancy Rigdon. Here's the KZread link that walks through the letter: kzread.info/dash/bejne/fX6J1s-zpJbMesY.html

@evmatthews8339

2 жыл бұрын

Girl, don't try digging into it, it just gets worse with all the mental gymnastics, being there, I'm out now but I understand what you're feeling

@evmatthews8339

2 жыл бұрын

@@jennyelsie I can totally understand, I was in your same situation 2 years ago, I tried my best to stay active and was forcing myself to believe, got really depressed because I was a 'molly mormon', but you will see after all this struggle and faith journey, there's nothing more liberating that the truth, now that I'm out I admire myself for leaving, sending you lots of love!!

This troubled me! It appeared to me that Joseph smith, Jr committed adultery. One day while thinking on it the Holy Spirit spoke to me these words which was a rebuke “whether or not Joseph Smith, Jr. committed adultery is none of your concern, that is between him and Me, you are to be concerned with your standing”. That set me straight, for I needed to improve my standing in His Church. I was no longer in question of the subject. I know that Joseph Smith Jr. is the prophet of the Restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Amen

@tinysafari1851

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with your comment as I was writing a response to this recording, about my hard questions regarding polygamy, my thoughts were rebuked in a similar manner.

@roughout

2 жыл бұрын

My experience is slightly different. I can't find within me any repulsive feelings toward those who practiced or didn't practice polygamy. Either the Lord commanded it or it's between them and Him.

@rabbithole2015

2 жыл бұрын

@@roughout I don't believe the Lord ever commanded it. I believe Joseph was committing adultery and put the blame on God.

@cindywoodbury385

2 жыл бұрын

@@rabbithole2015 Did you bother to ask the Lord if he commanded it? Of course you didn't. That's on you.

Thank you for such wonderful insights in to a hard topic

Have you considered having a conversation with Michelle Stone or Whitney Horning about these “hard questions”. I think you would find it very enlightening. You will never get to the bottom of these issues by studying the “product” of the scholars. You have to go to the source documents themselves.

I appreciate this very thoughtful presentation from the viewpoint of looking at what was stated by Joseph to be a commandment from God and yet was a very, very difficult commandment for him to obey without trampling on laws at the time or social moral codes of the time. It is only from that perspective that one can see the hand of God in such a decision to implement for select individuals over a limited time period.

I don’t like that she neglected the part in D&C 132 that says if the first wife doesn’t give consent, then she will be damned. Seems we know Joseph had a place prepared for Emma, so maybe not all of D&C 132 is correct? I too don’t like the coercion in this and with the angel with a sword. I also don’t believe the deniers since there is too much evidence Joseph did marry others. I followed all his wives on Family Search years ago when they were there, and all his wives ended up having children from Brigham, Heber or a third husband, so I see that Emma can have the monogamous marriage she wanted! I feel having all these unanswered questions is our Abrahamic test. Will we maintain our testimony that Christ did call and approve all our prophets? The gospel is working in my life, and I know the end is near and am focused on being ready and able to be called and chosen for that glorious work! There is no way this church hasn’t been without a prophet. President Nelson has been giving all the right spiritual counsel. This church holds the keys that are depicted in statues of Peter with those keys in his hand. The whole House of Israel will be brought back together with Zion established. Instead of worries about polygamy, study the scriptures like never before and learn Isaiah and apply it to the U.S.- the nation today that covenanted with God- as the Lord said to do in 3 Nephi 23:1-3.

Where is your source that Joseph was so “repulsed” by this idea of polygamy?

@majesticliberatoroftheoppr3971

2 жыл бұрын

I recommend Dr. Brian Hales books on this subject. He has a 3 book exhaustive work on all available original source material. He also has a condensed 1 book version. He also has a website and many KZread videos. Suffice to say, Joseph comes out well. His actions are consistent with attempting to initiate this principle, not to satisfy a desire for greater sexual opportunity. There are much easier ways to have engaged in the latter, if that was his intent. Kind regards

@madisonthompson8756

2 жыл бұрын

Even if he wasn’t “trying” to satisfy his sexual desires, he had sex with several of his wives. You can’t deny that. You can’t make excuses for it. HE HAD SEX WITH THEM.

@natalies4375

2 жыл бұрын

I feel stupid even watching this…. but I do and then read comments. How the heck can anyone believe this. Guess it breaks my heart as it has been the foolish traditions of my fathers and their fathers (and my entire family still.) My heart is still in, but my mind is 100% out. 🤯🤦🏻‍♀️💔

@natalies4375

2 жыл бұрын

@@majesticliberatoroftheoppr3971 why go into exhaustive work in your answer to this simple question. 🤦🏻‍♀️

@majesticliberatoroftheoppr3971

2 жыл бұрын

@@madisonthompson8756 indeed. On a few occasions. The patriarch Jacob of the old testament had his 12 sons by four wives. Sexuality is a part of plural marriage. Don’t be mad at me, be mad at the God of the Old Testament. I can’t be too upset. I wouldn’t exist were it not for for plural marriage, nor would I have the blessings of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. Kindest regards friend

Hi Lynn, you don’t know me but I adore and have spent many hours with you. Please cover the 1st wife’s choice is to accept it or be destroyed part. Joseph was threatened with the loss of his priesthood. 1st wives that don’t accept are subject to abject destruction Also, we frequently hear that marriage is supposed to be an equal partnership. How can it be equal when one partner has the option to add more partners And the other partner’s choice is to accept it or be destroyed ? These are my hard questions although I aspire to be an “all in” disciple Please delete this comment after answering, I don’t wish to sew contention

@tomasina10

2 жыл бұрын

It is Ok to ask these things and to discuss them . My earthly Dad always allowed me to ask him anything, i believe my perfect Father in Heaven is even more like this . Too much false info has been passed down out of fear of questions .

@OakHillsRunner

2 жыл бұрын

Note: I am not Lynn and would love to see her answer. I am not sure what the official church answer would be. However, I know that the Celestial Kingdom is equal for the sons and for the daughters of God. Everyone there is betrothed, so no one chooses a spouse. God puts us together with whoever is most suitable. So if you are a better mate, you will have a better mate. We will be put together better than we could have ever chosen on our own. There should also be an even gender ratio. Both men and women will have multiple relationships. There will be no pregnancy, menstruation, or "procreation". So it will be okay to have multiple partners. However, there are still rules and commitments. Once you consummate a marital relationship with someone, you must continue the relationship each month. Refusing consensual relations for 30 days can be punished by death. Also the activity that lovers do is expected daily. Going a day without it can be severely punished. There must then be a finite number of intimate relationships. We are not required to get married here. Our planned relationships will be what they are meant to be just like a child is born into a family here. There is not an adoption ceremony every time a child is born. Neither must there be marriage ceremonies to identify which relationships are already obviously eternal. Everyone should have the same number of relationships. There would not be one man taking 30 wives, and another having just one. I am still confused by D&C 132. This video helps, but I have a lot more to learn about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I know that Joseph Smith Jr. did a tremendous work for God! Questions still arise, but clarity comes in time. Also feel free to delete this comment. ~James in BC

@elizacragun4697

2 жыл бұрын

@@OakHillsRunner where are you getting all this from? It's oddly specific, and also not really congruent with current church doctrine. For example, in what way would someone who is immortal be "put to death" for not having intimate relations for 30 days. That's perhaps the oddest statement here. I'm not meaning to be critical, I'm just genuinely curious where you are getting this from.

@OakHillsRunner

2 жыл бұрын

@@elizacragun4697 The Bible refers to “the daily”. See Daniel 12:11 and Daniel 8:13-14. The book of Esther talks about the 30-day rule (Esther 4:11). “For the wages of sin is death” - Romans 6:23. Braking a marriage covenant is sin. Exodus 21:10 says: “If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.”

@elizacragun4697

2 жыл бұрын

@@OakHillsRunner I can't say that I agree with this interpretation but I appreciate your explanation. You have an interesting brand of Christianity. I'm not clear, though, it would seem that the man (the King) is deserving of death by your interpretation (for not offering "the daily sacrifice") but in the story of Esther, it is the Queen that faces the possibility of death.

Thank you for this discussion

Dr Covey once said...there are two kinds of commandments 1. General commandments and 2. Specific commandment

Bible and Book of Mormon both contain strong symbolism of "two by two ". Perhaps I do not yet understand the full meaning of these symbols but it would seem that they directly contradict polygamy.

@brentstout3180

2 жыл бұрын

6:42

@elizacragun4697

2 жыл бұрын

@@brentstout3180 Yes, the Biblical records of polygamy seem to contradict the pervasive symbolism of salvation in pairs in OT and BoM. BoM Book of Jacob also condemns polygamy just for the sake of polygamy. No wonder Joseph had questions!

so many difficult questions! I think the best answer is no loving God would ever play these kinds of mind games with His children. This is perverse and our souls know it. Marriage is so much more sacred than this Read "The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy" by Carol Lynn Pearson.

@patriotsongs

2 жыл бұрын

Was it a mind game when Abraham was told to sacrifice his son? These are not mind games, but tests and commandments with purpose.

@tarabence

2 жыл бұрын

@@patriotsongs maybe! I also have thought a loving God wouldn't do that. Trying to figure that out. I am leaning the LDS God isn't a good one though.

@andrewdurfee3896

2 жыл бұрын

@@tarabence Abraham gained an intimate knowledge of what Heavenly Father would eventually go through except His Son would not be spared.Their are many parallels between Christ and Issac. For one Christ and Issac both submitted to the will of their father and both had the power to deliver themselves from their situation, but said thy will be done. Issac is a Christ type. There are many other parallels as well. Why do you view the “LDS God” as not being a good one?

@UnderTheRadar5

2 жыл бұрын

@@tarabence and yet we read of Abraham and Isaac in the Bible..... :)

@UnderTheRadar5

2 жыл бұрын

Did Carol Lynn Pearson not leave the church?

Too many excuses being made here. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck. This woman’s explanations require getting into Joseph’s head, and that’s not possible. There are, however, letters and diaries of the women and girls who state that they felt pressured into “marrying” JS. A man in a position of power and authority pressuring or coercing women of any age into marriage is a the very least, guilty of sexual harassment. Joseph Smith promised eternal life in the celestial kingdom for entire families if some of the young women would marry him. Another was told that an angel with a drawn sword told him that he had to marry her or he would be killed. The woman in this video also states that “most of these marriages” weren’t consummated.”…and just how did she come to that conclusion? For good historical facts on this topic, check out Lindsay Hansen Park’s podcast, “A Year of Polygamy.” She is a member of the church and has done extensive research on this topic.

Galatians 1:8

@braylanbelew1346

Жыл бұрын

May anyone who perpetuates this deluded, false gospel be cursed. Joseph Smith was a fallible human, not a divine writer or receiver of divine world. Glory be to God the Father who sent His only Son to die as a sacrifice for the world’s sin. Because of that, we have complete access to God and total peace with Him. People, please open your eyes and see the absurdity of this religion.

Excellent questions from a wise lady! List of questions 1 - Polygamy and God 1. If God uses polygamy to raise up seed (Jacob 2:30) why did God always establish and command monogamy along with the command to multiply and replenish? (Adam and Eve, Noah and his wife, all their sons and all the animals, Lehi and Sariah, and all their sons, etc.) 2. If polygamy is of God, why was the first scriptural polygamist a descendent of Cain, a murderer, a s

The joy of our Heavenly Father are His children, no His eternal wives. Heavenly Father have more than one wife. There is nothing wrong with that. His eternal children is what matter to Him, the most.

Thank you for an excellent lesson.

I recommend Dr. Brian Hales books on this subject. He has a 3 book exhaustive work on all available original source material. He also has a condensed 1 book version. He also has a website and many KZread videos. Suffice to say, Joseph comes out well. His actions are consistent with attempting to initiate this principle, not to satisfy a desire for greater sexual opportunity. There are much easier ways to have done the latter, if that was his intent.

There's a great book by an LDS author that shows that there's perfect harmony between the prophetic statements concerning the garden of Eden being in Missouri and the Old Testament account concerning the garden of Eden. It's called Canaan, Babylon, and Egypt A Comparative Theological Analysis on Creation sold by Eborn Books.

In another video you mentioned how JS and Emma had a fight, was overhead by a servant and the next day she apologized to the servant and told her how she (Emma) was in the wrong. This also explains why Emma was sealed 3rd. This story was pertinent here.

Remember The Good Lord gave us intelligence, why are you trying to justify SIN ?

This is an excellent presentation and should suffice for all inquiries on the subject. As for me, I know for myself that Joseph Smith was the chosen candidate to be the prophet to usher in this dispensation of the Church of Jesus Christ and its fullness, with the Keys of the Priesthood restored. I know, as I know the Holy Bible to be, the Book of Mormon also, to be the written word of God. These things have been witnessed to me personally, by the Power of the Holy Ghost.

@danielbennion80

2 жыл бұрын

@@hollayevladimiroff131 What do you believe?

@tdubs5128

2 жыл бұрын

@@danielbennion80 This doesn't suffice anything for me on the subject. I don't believe plural marriage has ever been of God. Certainly never commanded by Him. It is a man made idea that has only caused heartache and conflict. Even within my own family.

The problem most of people have accepting plural marriage is because they have a romantic idealism about marriage. Life eternal is to have a continuation of life; in another word, having children eternally, rather with one wife or more then one.

Loved this video and has made good strides to make these things a little more transparent but the answers to question 1 didn't give the why and #2 was too light of an answer for me to feel comfortable. Of course there probably never will be psychological comfort on this topic. The Abrahamic Sacrifice was a brilliant way to explain this though and referencing Bryan Hales on this subject is smart. Last comment is you were a bit too gentle on his how accepting he was of their responses to the notion to marriage. Some records suggest he would grow upset and warn of damnation.

@geoffreydowdle5751

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sam-tu4hp Answers? No. These are more like part of a journey (often the start of one). There is certainly a lot to wonder which at bare minimum will push anyone to, "I don't know". Since we can't live on that, you'll most likely arrive at one of two choices: faith or logic. Belief in the improbable that can often appear impossible or reason that it's too unlikely.

There's a book called the Ang Aklatan. I believe out of the Philippines, just published in the early 2000. Very similar to the Book of Mormon, I've heard the church may know about it? In the book, if I remember a couple of married woman were told to marry someone else. Just a thought, I believe the book may be one that comes up in the last days.

I agree with the fact that more men are conceived & many die at a young age. I studied that at uni.

I loved listening to your perception, especially from a woman's point of view. Thank you for your dedication and work! by the way my wife comes from a family with six wives. You should go to one of those family reunion? she is from the fifth wife and they are really great and fun reunions held in Cash Valley. My sons are named for this great man!!!

2nd time viewing thispowerful lesson. This troubled me! It appeared to me that Joseph Smith, Jr committed adultery. One day while thinking on it the Holy Spirit spoke to me these words which was a rebuke “Whether or not Joseph Smith, Jr. committed adultery is none of your concern, that is between him and Me, you are to be concerned with your standing”. That set me straight, for I needed to improve my standing in His Church. I was no longer in question of the subject. I know that Joseph Smith Jr. is the prophet of the Restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Amen

@tdubs5128

2 жыл бұрын

So it's alright if he committed adultery? Don't trust every spirit.

@elizacragun4697

2 жыл бұрын

I've also received this same answer, that this part of Joseph's life is not relevant to me (at least not right now). His other "works" are enough for me to know that he was inspired. I do not need to understand what happened after that. At least not for now.

@tdubs5128

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sam-tu4hp I think Joseph Smith used the example of David to engage in activities that are not pleasing to God. Two wrongs don't make it right.

@ronpalmer2u

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sam-tu4hp You do not know your Holy Bible. Thank you for your reply.

@ronpalmer2u

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sam-tu4hp Joseph Smith did not threaten young girls to marry him. You are telling a lie, be careful of your Judgements. I know and haver known for 51 years that Joseph Smith, Jr is the Prophet of the Restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ. He was not a polygamist as the world knows it. That is Celestial Marriage which God Restored for a season. I knew that that had to ber restored when I was 9 years of age as even then I loved Jesus Christ and all things had to be Restored. Christ and many of the ancient Prophets have already appeared in the Kirkland and Navoo Temples and conferred their Keys. You say things you know nothing about. If you knew that Jesus Christ has Restored His Church would you want to be a part of it or would you just deny it. Contact the missionaries and read the Book of Mormon. Thank you for your reply.

Oh wow,, the early men & women of the church would be ashamed of how this gets explained away as just a temporary circumstance. Celestial Plural Marriage is an eternal principle & Celestial LAW. Not just a blip in history when kids might be needed. Read D & C 132:34. What is the Law???

@spencermarsh4253

2 жыл бұрын

Verse 19: "And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife _by my word_, which is my law..." God's WORD is his law. His current WORD is that plural marriage doesn't need to be practiced and is not necessary for exaltation in the celestial kingdom.

@Arkangeler

2 жыл бұрын

@@spencermarsh4253 yup follow the Keys with Exactness. Celestial Plural Marriage will be in our future of the Church but only in part is it lived right now!

12:32 gave me anxiety

Thank you!!! Bless you!!

Thank you.

Very well presented. I have some family members whose faith has been shaken as Satan has whispered faith shaking lies about polygamy. Your presentation may be helpful in them regaining perspective regarding this doctrine.

@gregjackson141

2 жыл бұрын

The only lie I'm aware of regarding polygamy is that God commanded it.

@roughout

2 жыл бұрын

@@gregjackson141 "Why do people honor the law of the polygamist Moses, bask in the wisdom of the polygamist Soloman, sing the songs of the polygamist David, pray to enter the gates of the city where are written the names of the twelve polygamist sons of the polygamist Jacob, to go to the bosom of the polygamist Abraham, and then curse the polygamist Brigham Young" and Joseph Smith?

@roughout

2 жыл бұрын

@@FFM115 the Church made the decision to research and publish the Joseph Smith Papers. That's called being transparent not hiding the facts. These are the kind of lies I'm talking about.

@madisonthompson8756

2 жыл бұрын

I condemn any polygamy or old men marrying children. Including biblical men.

@roughout

2 жыл бұрын

@@madisonthompson8756 no one can deprive you of your opinion but it has no value once it leaves your head.

So great informations. Could you talk a little bit slower 🤔 then I would understand it better

@roughout

2 жыл бұрын

You can slow down the replay if you like, by selecting the 3 dot menu extension (upper right corner).

None of us has died yet so "NO ONE REALLY KNOWS" "WHAT" is on the other side of Heaven in the way of Polygamy. Thankgoodness though we do know Heavenly Father is "ALL LOVING, KIND, CARING," & "ONLY" "WANTS OUR HAPPINESS" as "ANY" Parent would want for their own children. So if you have died & "DO KNOW EXACTLY HOW IT IS" "PLEASE" share the facts.😉

Emma didn’t like polygamy it must of been very hard for women but a lot of men got excommunicated because of being tempted to commit adultery.

See Rob Fatheringham “ ‘Joseph Smith Was not the author of D&C 132’

One of the most seminal doctrines of Mormonism. Yet we scratch and dig and disagree here and there. There is a Prophet Seer and Revelator with keys on the earth today. Yet, he does not consider clarification from Heavenly Father, of this doctrine important. A doctrine that will preclude many who do not meet the high level of qualification, that being a second Anointing, that is required to take place between a husband and spouse or spouses to achieve the top degree of the Celestial kingdom. And here we have a woman teaching a doctrine that should be made clear by a prophet.

a superb explanation! I really appreciate the idea that an Abrahamic sacrifice can be something other than taking a life. This was a mind opening idea that I had not considered before!. some of us are losing children to apostasy. Is it possible that we could be experiencing an Abrahamic sacrifice? In conference Elder Holland said,"fear not! Only believe!". We don't have every answer but we can Trust God.❤

Dear Sister , I enjoy your podcasts and appreciate your topic choices . Can I respectfully suggest that my ears can’t hear as fast as your information can be given . I like to listen at night to gospel podcasts and I can’t keep up by then ! Maybe a tad slower ? Thank you so much .

@sharonreeve7537

2 жыл бұрын

There’s a menu listing giving the option to adjust the Playback Speed. Hope this helps.

@cindykinser7850

2 жыл бұрын

Yes re: menu option to adjust speed. Tap the 3 dots in the upper right hand corner and you will have access to that option

@lynnewilson4084

2 жыл бұрын

SORRY . . . You can slow down the speed by adjusting the little "wheel" tool so that it is played at a slower pace

@Mickshickle

2 жыл бұрын

We’re all different ! I like soaring through with your enthusiasm. Great to have that speed option!

33:00 I totally agree. I'm tired of people saying that women are naturally more likely to make it to heaven because of their gender.

@StompMom5

8 ай бұрын

In a world where far More men have p0rn problems than women, welcome to reality. I don't like it anymore than you do. But most latter day saint marriages are ending in divorce because men won't control their appetite for physical online pleasure. That's what ended my marriage and so many others in my ward and family. Tell your species to stay off the computer and off the pla.yb.oy site. I know women also have this problem but it's FAR LESS in the church where it's just as common for men in the church as it is outside the church

I am having difficulty with this - why no children from Joseph and other wives ? Secondly, if Joseph was so unhapy about plural marriage, why did God insist on making him do it ?

@UltraDoug

Жыл бұрын

Good question. My off the cuff response would be: Abraham did. Not want to kill his son. Why did God put him through the torture and process of obedience?

@posmatram2780

Жыл бұрын

@@UltraDoug But God stopped Abraham before the he sacrificed his son, and not so with polygamy

@bartercoins

Жыл бұрын

Why no children? Because there were no sexual relations between Joseph and the women who were sealed to him (besides Emma). Why did God insist that Joseph do it despite him being unhappy about it? Because Mormonism was intended to be a gospel seed that would eventually mature into the kingdom tree. The restoration that Joseph accomplished is a shadow of the restoration of all things that would come later, which would be performed by Elias. Joseph was an Elias type and Mormonism is Elias' shadow. Joseph's calling was to put on earth _shadows_ of things to come. When Joseph peered into heaven, what he saw there was plural marriage among all the exalted people: all the men married to all the women. His job was to create a shadow of that society, which is a heavenly seed. He accomplished his task by sealing already married women to him and to other men, but no sexual relations took place. Afterward, Brigham limited the scope of the practice to just polygyny (one man, multiple wives) with no polyandry, and he allowed sexual relations. Later the practice of plural marriage was scrapped but men could still have both dead and living wives sealed to them (which is the current practice). Also, when a woman dies, she is sealed to _all_ her dead husbands by the church. All these practices are shadows of the fully mature principle and society found in heaven. It is not the prerogative of church leadership to put into place the fully mature heavenly kingdom tree, only to keep the planted seed alive in some fashion until Elias arrives. When Elias shows up on the scene, he will use his power to mature the seed into its tree form and thus create the kingdom of heaven on earth in preparation for the advent of the heavenly King, Jesus Christ.

@jennyelsie

Жыл бұрын

@@bartercoins actually, even the LDS Faith admits in its Essays that some of Joseph Smith's polygamous unions included sexual relations.

@bartercoins

Жыл бұрын

@@jennyelsie The essay on polygamy that I read doesn't say that he had sexual relations, but that sealings for time and all eternity, as opposed to eternity-only sealings, included the _possibility_ for sexual relations. Joseph had both types of sealings but it is still unknown whether anything was physically consummated (other than with Emma). -----> "During the era in which plural marriage was practiced, Latter-day Saints distinguished between sealings for time and eternity and sealings for eternity only. Sealings for time and eternity included commitments and relationships during this life, generally including the possibility of sexual relations. Eternity-only sealings indicated relationships in the next life alone. "Evidence indicates that Joseph Smith participated in both types of sealings. The exact number of women to whom he was sealed in his lifetime is unknown because the evidence is fragmentary. Some of the women who were sealed to Joseph Smith later testified that their marriages were for time and eternity, while others indicated that their relationships were for eternity alone. "Most of those sealed to Joseph Smith were between 20 and 40 years of age at the time of their sealing to him. The oldest, Fanny Young, was 56 years old. The youngest was Helen Mar Kimball, daughter of Joseph’s close friends Heber C. and Vilate Murray Kimball, who was sealed to Joseph several months before her 15th birthday. Marriage at such an age, inappropriate by today’s standards, was legal in that era, and some women married in their mid-teens. Helen Mar Kimball spoke of her sealing to Joseph as being “for eternity alone,” suggesting that the relationship did not involve sexual relations. After Joseph’s death, Helen remarried and became an articulate defender of him and of plural marriage. "Following his marriage to Louisa Beaman and before he married other single women, Joseph Smith was sealed to a number of women who were already married. Neither these women nor Joseph explained much about these sealings, though several women said they were for eternity alone. Other women left no records, making it unknown whether their sealings were for time and eternity or were for eternity alone."

Thank you for expressing your thoughts after so much study to help us all understand a bit better the commandment given for plural marriage. It causes so much ridicule for the saints in a world that just doesn’t understand.

@annwood6812

2 жыл бұрын

Oh, the world fully understands.

I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for polygamy.

The House of Israel is a plural Family.... End of debate.

@pauline17ish

2 жыл бұрын

You sound like a fun person. Sheesh.

I will tell you what. I will pray about it. You still don't have me convinced about 19th century polygamy. I do however believe the manifesto.

Women outnumber men 5 to 1 in the church currently and I’m sure that’s part of the reason they practiced polygamy during JS’s time, especially when women were so dependent on men back in those days. And men outside the church tend to not want to be with an LDS woman so it’s complicated. Women can financially provide for themselves these days thanks to women’s rights, but that still doesn’t solve the issue of being alone your whole life and dating non members who reject you because of your faith and competing for the few men left in the church. Dating is a nightmare for LDS women who believe in the faith

@madisonthompson8756

2 жыл бұрын

Did you even watch the video?

@kkeiter

2 жыл бұрын

@@madisonthompson8756 yup!

@kkeiter

2 жыл бұрын

@@madisonthompson8756 she was also just expressing her opinion. I’ve done a lot of study on this as well

@madisonthompson8756

2 жыл бұрын

You definitely got me there. She states facts while interjecting her opinion. Your opinion is also valid. I’m sorry that the culture around the church makes it so difficult to date.

@kkeiter

2 жыл бұрын

@@madisonthompson8756 my beliefs and convictions make it hard to date

It is an easy question. The law of chastity must be lived to be in the Celestial kingdom. More women than men will live the law of chastity. The law in mortality is as Jacob said, one man and one woman bound in marriage, unless the Lord wants to raise up seed unto himself. During the millennium, because there will be more worthy women than men the only way a worthy woman who is not married can gain what she was promised, and what she earned is plural narriage

@annasymemusic4710

2 жыл бұрын

I really don’t believe that, especially since there are so many boys/men who have died before marriage age. Really there is no doctrine to claim that.

Don Bradley's work on this is incredible! Joseph Smith was intentionally selecting women that were pregnant in order to avoid any sexual relations. Basically exploiting a loop hole. Shows his motivation; to obey God and not out of sexual desire.

@RobertStanley461

Ай бұрын

So in other words he never practiced polygamy.

You gave a wonderful explanation spoken with the spirit. Thank you.

women outnumber men 5 to 1 in the church currently and I’m sure the ratio was similar if not worse when the church started. That’s part of the reason they practiced it during JS’s time, especially when women were so dependent on men. And men outside the church tend to not want to be with LDS women so it’s complicated. Women can financially provide for themselves these days thanks to women’s rights, but that still doesn’t solve the issue of being alone your whole life and dating non members who reject you because of your faith constantly and competing for the few men left in the church. Dating is a nightmare for LDS women who believe in the faith. So I can see why polygamy was practiced then and why it would be practiced again and why it was a bold thing to do, mostly to help and support women, not to take advantage of and hurt them. Maybe it’ll all be sorted out in the afterlife, but maybe we shouldn’t judge it for what it really was and why it was practiced.

@kkeiter

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sam-tu4hp that was probably more symptomatic of the marriage culture in the 1800s when more teen women married, which obviously is not part of the culture now. And there’s far more many women’s rights now. And people don’t marry that young anymore, nor should they

@kkeiter

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sam-tu4hp also I heard JS was only sexual with 3-4 of his wives and not on a regular basis so this was not sexual

@kkeiter

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sam-tu4hp are you mormon? I don’t think the data reports the amount of INACTIVE men because that’s harder to measure and I know a lot of inactive lds men so yes there’s a lot of male members but the ratio of ACTIVE lds women vs. ACTIVE lds men is a huge disparity

@kkeiter

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sam-tu4hp I also don’t think the coercion thing can even be proven. They didn’t have audio or visual recordings so you can’t even prove that happened

@kkeiter

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sam-tu4hp you’re a man so you don’t know what it’s like to be the minority of anything

Great information and you were clar on how hard and difficult it was for those early practitioners of plural marriage. However I don't think you represented those who after practising plural marriage gained a testimony of the practice and totally embraced this devine calling. We still have along way to go with being honest in our history and stop white washing and looking at our past with only rose coloured glasses. Surely if you highlight the disdain you must also show the welcoming embrace for the practice of pm.

A

For most people, all of this is balderdash, unless you have your own testimony (wonderful for those of us who do).

@3thingsfishing427

Жыл бұрын

I can testify there is a purple dinosaur in your kitchen. Doesn’t make it true.

I have a question… if Abraham’s Sacrifice of his son is the definition of Abrahamic Sacrifice than isn’t the sacrifice the willingness to do a difficult near impossible task, then spared last minute? I feel it is misleading to call plural marriage an example of Abrahamic Sacrifice for if it was then the Lord Him self would stop it at the alter as Abraham was stopped. Second, why were wives not give revelation of who to marry BEFORE the men… are women not wear they if such information? I was given revelation that I would be Relief Society President before my husband who was in the bishopric . I knew before the bishopric had prayed and agreed. Does the church still believe in personal revelation?

@StompMom5

8 ай бұрын

I totally agree with this. Being of such a gross nature women should have been very much involved in the revelation. Like, the angel should have appeared to Emma and asked her before Joseph. That whole situation was messed up

I paused the video to comment on how it’s interesting that these weird sects popped up just before the restoration preaching some sort of plural marriage. So that that once it was revealed by Joseph Smith, everybody had a bad taste in their mouth about it. Coincidence? Old scratch is always working.

Proverbs 30:5-6 Is a definitive renunciation of adding to what God has written. It says as follows: 5 Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. 6 Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar. All cults rely on the perversion of scripture to support their belief system.

@davidcook8134

2 жыл бұрын

Hmmm... and when exactly was Proverbs 30:5-6 written? So nothing written after that was the word of God? That's a lot of the bible to toss out. Including the whole New Testament😉.

@shearwatersoil1

2 жыл бұрын

@@davidcook8134 The early church counsels produced the canon of the Bible and that is the completed written word of God with all that is necessary for life and salvation of believers. This includes the Old and New Testaments and nothing more. God has preserved these scriptures through time for us to read and profit from.

@davidcook8134

2 жыл бұрын

@@shearwatersoil1 1. The problem with the claim that the bible is "the completed word of God" is that it isn't in the bible: It claims a truth for the bible that the bible doesn't claim for itself. 2. The claim is logically self-refuting: Those who make it are adding a provision to the word of God, which refutes the claim that nothing can be added to the word of God. 3. None of the proof texts cited by those who hold this position say anything about God adding to His own words; the verses only prohibit men from adding to God's word. Do you really want to claim that God gagged himself 2,000 years ago? Why would He do that?

Hey Lynn. Your videos are great! I always learn new things. Look at D&C section 131, the section on 3 degrees of glory IN the celestial kingdom. Then define clearly what "the other" is. In a revelation about marriage, you cant enter singlehood. "The other" clearly points to monogamy, leaving plural marriage as the only option for the highest degree IN the celestial kingdom. The covenants regarding Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob arent sealing. That's Elijah. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are all polygamists. Look up Journal of Discourse 20:28 Joseph F Smith. Monogamy is a step into the highest degree, like tithing. But it isnt the fullness of the law. Plural marriage is the fullest. Repeatdly in scripture the Lord promises the faithful they will be given more. Parable of the talents. "whomsoever is faithful over a few things, shall be made ruler over many." "Whomsoever shall forsake lands, children, parents, husbands, wives for my sake, shall be given an hundred fold".

@suzannewood783

2 жыл бұрын

These are personal theories and do not represent nor are consistent with doctrine or church teachings.

@averykirk

2 жыл бұрын

Hi Brett! I just wanted to address the idea that polygamy is essential to the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom (Which is to become exalted). Here is a list of Apostles and Prophets saying that is not the case: Bruce R. McConkie in Mormon Doctrine: "Plural marriage is not essential to salvation or exaltation. Nephi and his people were denied the power to have more than one wife and yet they could gain every blessing in eternity that the Lord ever offered to any people. In our day, the Lord summarized by revelation the whole doctrine of exaltation and predicated it upon the marriage of one man to one woman." Charles W. Penrose in the Improvement Era: "Q: Is plural or celestial marriage essential to a fulness of glory' (Which is to obtain the highest degree) 'in the world to come? A: Celestial Marriage is essential to a fulness of glory in the world to come, as explained in the revelation concerning it; but it is not stated that plural marriage is thus essential." Trying to separate the conflation many members of the Church had with plural marriage and celestial marriage, the First Presidency said to the whole church: "Celestial marriage - that is, marriage for time and eternity - and polygamous or plural marriage are not synonymous terms." Elder Marcus B. Nash wrote in the Ensign: "The Church does not teach that participation in plural marriage is necessary for exaltation." The Church's Current General Handbook: "One of the requirements for obtaining eternal life is for a man and a woman to enter the covenant of celestial marriage." It makes no mention of any need of a man entering into plural marriage. There have been Prophets in the past who taught contrary, but further revelation has said, "No, that is not the case." I'd challenge you to find any Prophet or Apostle after 1980 that says plural marriage is essential to obtain the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom. Your interpretation you shared in your comment is just your own, it is not the interpretation of the most modern prophets or the Church.

@brettthompson9082

2 жыл бұрын

@@averykirk Hey. Thanks for responding. I will have to look up these quotes.

@brettthompson9082

2 жыл бұрын

@@averykirk So, how do you break down section 131? How do you define "the other" then?

@averykirk

2 жыл бұрын

@@brettthompson9082 "The other" in verse 4 has always seemed to me to mean "The other degree(s) of the Celestial Kingdom and the other Kingdoms of Heaven." With that idea in mind it would read: vs. 2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; vs. 3 And if he does not enter into the New and Everlasting Covenant , he cannot obtain the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom. vs. 4 He may enter into the lower degrees but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

I love that you give handouts you are my angel. This was a hard subject.

@lisapurplehayes

2 жыл бұрын

Because this is the work of a criminal taking spiritual advantage of people.

Joseph Smith Jr. the prophet can never be a true prophet of God going against the commandments of God. Remember in him the dispensations gathered in one. It is not easy to comprehend. This is one the deep reason i believe he is a true prophet of the Great Jehova. Sister you are brave, thank you for telling what is in your mind, love it.

Has anyone thought that plural marriage also solves the issue of women who don’t want to be alone their whole lives but don’t want to marry outside the covenant? Also sister wives are helpful for each other.

@mikelray3965

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, still bullshit

@madisonthompson8756

2 жыл бұрын

There’s a difference between wanting to be married to multiple people, and being threatened with your eternal salvation. If people want to be polygamist for the reasons you stated, that’s perfectly fine. But that’s not why polygamy was practiced and it’s still not an excuse.

@kkeiter

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely but women outnumber men in the church even today - 5 to 1 - and the numbers are growing. As a single LDS member, I know how hard it is to get married when there are no men in the church and men outside the church aren’t accepting of our religion.

@kkeiter

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikelray3965 but women outnumber men in the church 5 to 1 currently and as a single lds member, I know how hard it is to get married when there is a lack of men in the faith. Plus men outside our faith aren’t very accepting of the religion so it makes it tough. And I’m sure that was part of why they practiced polygamy in JS’s days as well

@kkeiter

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikelray3965 don’t be so hard on ppl, you’re not a single woman in the church where men are currently the minority. It sucks. Men outside my faith don’t want to date me because I’m Mormon and I believe in it too strongly to leave

I am a new convert and this helps my understanding. I love you enthusiasm!

It's 6:42 a.m., November 22, 2021, Dear sister would you please slow down. You are a fast talker. This is an important subject. I know you have much to say. Tone the delivery speed down. Ha, foolish me...it's already produced. I guess this is why there is always a wise producer to orchestrate whenever film is produced. Let's give it another try...in the dark...in my lazy boy with a blanket on me. I'll hit the play button again.

thank you

Why women cannot have more than one husband in heaven? What does it mean we can choose not to, but if we don't accept celestial polygamy, we are damned and destroy as God told Emma?

@StompMom5

8 ай бұрын

I could be wrong but that was supposed to be a private conservation between Joseph and Emma but was published later. Emma was leaving Joseph after finding out about his marriage to Fanny without her knowledge or consent and he panicked and probably made that up and later it was added as scripture when it wasn't supposed to. Don Bradley, a church historian is trying to get to the bottom of that section but as of now, what I mentioned above is what he believes happened. Time will tell

Its an easy question. In the millinium more women will be there than men, because more women will live the law of chastity than men. So the imbalance of women are pro.ised eternal marriage, and earned it. What's completed about that? Now, could God force more men than women to live the law of chastity? No. Does God wish an equal number of men and women would qualify for Celestial marriage? His law through Jacob suggests yes. Any man who has found the love of his life only wants her. Other men might have the wrong motives

@3thingsfishing427

Жыл бұрын

Have you met a woman before?

Good information, but can you please slow down a bit, it's important to take all this in

@cindykinser7850

2 жыл бұрын

Sky Family, I had the exact comment and a kind reader told me I could tap the 3 buttons in the upper right hand corner. There is a drop down menu that you can change the playback speed. Has made all the difference!

If we throw out this principle, we must throw out the Old Testament and secondarily Christ who quoted and sustained the patriarchs. David is well-known for his sin with Bathsheba and Uriah (see 2 Samuel 12:1-27. Nathan the prophet arrived to condemn David's behavior, and told the king: 7 ¶ And Nathan said to David...Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; 8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things. 9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon. 10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife. (2 Samuel 12:7-10) Nathan here tells David that the Lord "gave thee...thy master's wives." And, the Lord says, through His prophet, that He would have given even more than He has already given of political power, wives, and wealth. But, David sinned and did evil in the matter of Uriah. If plural marriage is always a sin to God, then why did Nathan not take the opportunity to condemn David for it now? Or, why did the prophet not come earlier? David and Solomon do not prove a critics' point, but in fact demonstrate that plural marriage may, on occasion, be sanctioned (as in David's case certainly). But, we need not rely on these examples only to demonstrate that plural marriage was practiced by righteous followers of God in the Bible. Other cases include: Abraham married Hagar (Genesis 16:3), Keturah (Genesis 25:1) and other unnamed concubines (Genesis 25:6). Jacob (Genesis 29:21-30, Genesis 30:3-4, Genesis 30:9) Abijah had fourteen wives (2 Chronicles 13:21) and yet he is described as a righteous king of Judah who honored the Lord (2 Chronicles 13:8-12) and prosper in battle because of the Lord's blessing (2 Chronicles 13:16-18) Jehoiada, priest under king Joash had two wives (2 Chronicles 3:) and is described at his death as one who "had done good in Israel, both toward God and toward his house. [i.e. family]" (2 Chronicles 24:16). and also Moses [married Zipporah (Exodus 2:22 and an "Ethiopian" (Cushite) woman Numbers 12:1. Moses parted the Red Sea... yeah I think he’s a prophet, but he was certainly a polygamist.

@madisonthompson8756

2 жыл бұрын

It’s so wonderful that you cited sources! Where in there does it say you need multiple wives to get into heaven?

@majesticliberatoroftheoppr3971

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sam-tu4hp You misuse the term pedophilia. That is defined as eight years and younger. Granted, from our cultural perspective, 14 is young but The evidence in these two instances were more a kin to a betrothal. It is not believed that these were consummated. It is plain to me that Joseph was restoring the principle rather than trying to increase his sexual opportunities. There are much easier ways to commit adultery if that was his intention. You assume there was a lot of conjugal relations happening. And yet there were no children from any of the plural wives. The evidence of his insatiable libido is underwhelming. But by all means, continue pretending that you understand his motivations, while ignoring all of his many good works, shared visions and Supernatural scriptural translation. I think we should pick on Moses next.… Sure he parted the Red Sea by the power of God, wrote the first five books of the Old Testament and spoke to God, but he sure was a dirty old man with his wives and what not.

@majesticliberatoroftheoppr3971

2 жыл бұрын

@@madisonthompson8756 No ma’am. If The Savior is gracious enough to let me in, I hope to only be With my one beautiful bride and mother of my children. That would be my heaven. But I will not be so brazen to tell God how to operate his universe if there are Some instances of plural marriage that he sanctioned. It’s probably not my place to poke God in the chest and tell him how he should be running things. I won’t be telling him that I would much prefer the blue flowers in heaven’s foyer rather than the red ones. He probably knows more than I do.

@majesticliberatoroftheoppr3971

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sam-tu4hp 1) copy. You would like to make your own definition of pedophilia for the sake of name calling and discreditation. Got it. Let’s ignore the correct definition at eight years and younger (pre-pubescent children) and make you the king of linguistics for the day. 2) You “assume” that conjugal relations were a part of his marriages to the two 14-year-olds. Primary source material does not agree. Again, I reference Brian hales exhaustive work on the subject if you are truly interested in understanding rather than condemning. you know what they say about when you ‘assume’. 3) if Moses didn’t exist or wasn’t a prophet or if we can assign no value to the biblical the narrative, Then we must also throw out Christ since he fulfilled the law of Moses and spoke of him and the other patriarchs often. The following are scriptures of Jesus referencing Moses in the Bible. I have left out references to Moses in latter-day Saints scripture since you obviously don’t believe in that. Yes, if we get rid of Moses then we get rid of Christ. You may be fine with that, but I am not. He is my Lord and Savior and I will not deny the Christ. (Matthew 8:1-4) 8 After he came down from the mountain, large crowds followed him. 2 And look! a leper came up and did obeisance to him, saying: “Lord, if you just want to, you can make me clean.” 3 So stretching out his hand, he touched him, saying: “I want to! Be made clean.” Immediately his leprosy was cleansed away. 4 Then Jesus said to him: “See that you tell no one, but go, show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses appointed, for a witness to them.” (Matthew 17:3) 3 And look! there appeared to them Moses and E·liʹjah conversing with him. (Matthew 19:7, 8) 7 They said to him: “Why, then, did Moses direct giving a certificate of dismissal and divorcing her?” 8 He said to them: “Out of regard for your hard-heartedness, Moses made the concession to you of divorcing your wives, but that has not been the case from the beginning. (Matthew 23:1, 2) 23 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. (Mark 7:9, 10) 9 Further, he said to them: “You skillfully disregard the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For example, Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Let the one who speaks abusively of his father or mother be put to death.’ (Luke 24:25-27) 25 So he said to them: “O senseless ones and slow of heart to believe all the things the prophets have spoken! 26 Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into his glory?” 27 And starting with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them things pertaining to himself in all the Scriptures. Considering the Gospels only gave us a snapshot of his full ministry, which lasted over 3 years, the reference and respect that Jesus had for Moses is very clear.

@majesticliberatoroftheoppr3971

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sam-tu4hp Thank you for your definition of pedophilia. Even in our cultural lens today according to your definition, Joseph Smith was not a pedophile. I am sorry I disgust you. I have lived the law of chastity my entire life and have been loyal to my one wife. This is due to the teachings of the church that you are condemning. Perhaps the morality of the world in which we live is more compelling to you? There is beauty and peace and harmony and love in living God‘s Commandments and the church that you seek to destroy is a vehicle for this principle centered , happy living. Go build some thing up friend and stop trying to tear down other peoples faith in Christ.

I work with Middle east people and for them... Polygamy is very natural. Some of them have up to 19 brothers and sisters. When they came to America they was surprised how people here mock and criticize the mormons. They have big big!!! family reunions and everybody happy.!!!

GOOD JOB!! VERY INSIGHTFUL. YOU HAVE CONVINCED ME!!! THE GOSPEL HAS INDEED BEEN RESTORED !!!!!

We are living in the Last Dispensation, the restoration of All things. That includes plural marriage, a celestial law carried out by mere mortals. In reference to previous comments, No one has the right to throw stones. Jesus Christ is the judge, not us. Thank you for your presentation.

@madisonthompson8756

2 жыл бұрын

Who are you to judge those who throw stones. Practice what you preach.

I'm a very active member of the church who has raised five amazing children. I keep media out of my home, scripture is a HUGE part of our lives and all my children are God fearing, temple goers living good lives. My point....... living a very strict gospel centered life doesn't and can't take the human experience away from you. Intimacy with your spouse arouses hormones, creates wild thoughts and supposed to create a bond between one husband and one wife. Cannot happen when a man is using his body parts on multiple women. It's nothing but perversion. I believe with all my heart that Joseph is a true prophet as well as Brigham Young. But the polygamy "doctrine" was the devil deceiving them so he could destroy the church and thankfully failed. Emma wasn't okay with it, Joseph wasn't okay with it and even Brigham Young said he desired the grave. Why no peace? The angel with the drawn sword goes against the very agency we fought for before we ever came to earth. God doesn't force us to do things against our will especially threatening with a do or die mentality to someone trying to serve God. As far as brining up seed....Adam and Eve didn't live such a practice. Noah couldn't live such a practice, everyone else was gone and they still managed to populate the earth. Lehi and his family did so without as well. The book mormon talks About the many widows who needed care so they took care of them. It was never commanded that taking care of them meant they all had s*x with all of them. This teaching needs to be abolished. It's one of the most vile ways to claim growing a church means everyone is having s*x

@jamenrivera7546

5 ай бұрын

Jacob 2:30 says "For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things." (these things meaning monogamous relations, read full passage for context). The Book of Mormon teaches that the purpose of plural marriage is reserved for raising a generation up unto the Lord. I think of how quickly we grew into a people because of this practice and how many millions have been reared in the gospel because of our fathers and mothers faithful obedience to Gods commandment to practice polygamy. If anything these passages in the Book of Mormon are a sign that this principle was taught to our people from the beginning of the restoration, and that it did not originate with Joseph in Kirtland or Nauvoo. If you believe in the Book of Mormon you believe that God commands plural marriage in specific instances for the purpose of raising a large population in a short amount of time. I'll state that again, if you believe that the Book of Mormon is the word of God then you can believe confidently that polygamy is a practice instituted of God. I'll give another instance of when God allowed polygamy in the old testament. I think we too often reference Abraham and the early patriarchs when talking about polygamy. I believe they were rather innocent instances of the practice when in reality the more scandalous version of polygamy was practiced with King David. In 2 Samuel 12:7-8 it says "7 ¶ ..Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; 8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things." God anointed David as the king of Israel, but David practiced polygamy and he cheated on his wife with a married woman! God gave David his "masters wives into (his) bosom". God not only allowed David to practice polygamy, He gave him wives to practice it with! To us today that seems an odd thing for a perfectly just and merciful divine being to do, but I believe it is not because He is not just and merciful, it is because we do not fully understand His ways or, more commonly, are not willing to accept them when he tells us them. We too often create an image of God where He perfectly appeals to our modern sensibilities and anything which contradicts how we believe God ought to behave we abandon, because He does not appeal to our image of Him. I would encourage you to reread the revelation on plural marriage found in D&C 132 and pray to receive more light regarding it. I know that God instituted polygamy and it has been both a blessing and trial. A blessing because of the generations reared because of it, and a trial because it causes us to align ourselves with the mind of God and see it from His perspective.

@danl6852

3 ай бұрын

The Angel gave Joseph the option to choose, Joseph chose to obey. He was just going to receive the consequences right away. This is an example throughout the scriptures, when Peter comes to the couple that held unto tithes for their benefit, they were struck down dead right away. Where was their agency? Or Jonah’s agency when he chose not go back and preach? The Lord commanded it and Joseph chose to follow.

I believe these teachings were correct.

If married LDS women think that plural marriage will not exist in Celestial Kingdom, better think again. Move over ladies ...

@jennyelsie

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. There are many extreme and blunt comments about polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom made my early prophets within the Journal of Discourses.

@bmwatt2151

2 жыл бұрын

None of us have died so "STOP" saying "HOW THINGS" will be for women when they die. Have you died yet??