Having a channel with over 2mil subs featuring mine is certainly a welcome surprise to wake up to

@coconut7490

3 ай бұрын

Your video on this topic was much better than other bigger channels, you definitely deserve more recognition. Hopefully Asmon reaction helps with that.

@BlazeMakesGames

3 ай бұрын

well he did get like 5 times as many views as my video did in under an hour than my video got in almost a month so here's hoping lol

@pinolskun8764

3 ай бұрын

You got a like from me thanks to him so theres that. Good luck with your channel and great video

@DONTHURTMELOL

3 ай бұрын

Keep up the great work. You have a very bright future if you keep producing top notch videos like this.

@Tryhardblackguy

3 ай бұрын

Been diving into my game dev journey since late last year, having a lot of fun and ran across some of your videos, they are always high quality : )

Asmon, hand holding in video games exist for people like YOU.

@vinniegret4841

3 ай бұрын

Hehe-haha i pointed a finger.

@osaker4610

3 ай бұрын

He told that he play specialy this way so people gona play it themselfs.

@abysswalker3891

3 ай бұрын

waiting for the asmon fans cope now

@hellothere4431

3 ай бұрын

true. it amazes me how bad some streamers can be at games considering it has been one of their main hobbies for years or even decades

@bigonrock

3 ай бұрын

actually real and true based take and also video games are for everyone so of course no one wants to spend hours trying to find out where to go in a game navigation is actually important in games

Mirrors Edge is literally 'yellow paint, the game' but it works, because the entire artistic style of the game is exactly that - making it feel like it's directly a part of the world, rather than some superfluous overlay. Integrating sign posting in a non-intrusive way is not just a nicety anymore, like it was in the early days of gaming, but out-right a requirement for no reason other than, as asmon points out: most people that complain about it are people who've been playing games for at least a decade - that is to say; the general population of the gaming community is *significantly* more in tune with what is and what isn't good game design, even if those people can't say specifically what it is and can only generalise (as seen directly here). Case in point why an open world Mirrors Edge just doesn't work nearly as well. The 'yellow pain' goes from being a part of the world and its aesthetic to a mechanic that instantly takes you out of the immersion. Further case in point why 'invisible tutorials' are, frankly, the pinnacle of game design as we know it. It requires the understanding of practically every piece of game design knowledge we've accrued, to not just understand but effectively implement - which is exactly why it's so difficult to do so.

@Toetech0

3 ай бұрын

not to mention that mirrors edge had a difficulty setting to hide those red "guides".

@AgentSapphire

2 ай бұрын

the old darksiders game did it well. Climbable surfaces were covered in this fleshy growth that you could dig your claws into. Thing was, this growth was everywhere. Part of the scenery, the storytelling, the environment in general. Only areas of very thick growth were climbable. It was very obvious but it was never immersion breaking.

@coreytapp364

2 ай бұрын

I ain't reading Allat plus mirrors edge was ok but u don't need full essay on it BUD

@chickenwings6172

2 ай бұрын

It's actually red paint

@ailonrouge

2 ай бұрын

@@chickenwings6172 it wasn't even paint, it's supposed to bridge the gap between freerunner and player by being "How the runner sees the world"

I think the best phrasing for this I heard was "Players need the carrot, but don't EVER let them see the stick! The moment they catch a glimps of the stick their immersion is ruined and the entire game crumbles like a house of cards."

@newguy371

2 ай бұрын

Check mate!

@Rei322

2 ай бұрын

​@@newguy371zapp

it is very ironic for asmon to complain about this tbh

@janitorizamped

3 ай бұрын

Self reporting a lack of critical thinking lmao

@justin_y1454

3 ай бұрын

KEKW

@Tyrrituil

3 ай бұрын

I mean he did say he didn't think it's a big deal at the start, but that there are less immersion breaking ways to accomplish the same effect

@you_tube6733

3 ай бұрын

no, its not. he goes into videogames blind... and continues to swing blindly in the dark...

@Ishaan_A

3 ай бұрын

He didn't say hand holding is bad though. He said some Devs don't always know how to do it properly. He even game the example of Dark Souls. Just having hand holding of any form isn't making the game bad. It being so obvious that it's there for guiding you and not a natural component of the world, that's the issue. Uncharted does it the best, as guiding points are naturally integrated into the environment your character is playing within.

I saw the title, i came to the comments and see exactly what I expected. Clearly there's a need for hand holding for certain kind of people

@WanyeInJapan

3 ай бұрын

For a certain bald person for sure.

@SRFAA

3 ай бұрын

Didn't wait long enough to have this type of discussion. Even in his response video someone had said that yellow ledges were made for people like him, and the very thing that started off this video were yellow ledges. Lol

@dougfax

3 ай бұрын

The discussion is about how it is done

@3nim3nimabl3

3 ай бұрын

​@dougfax but there's nothing wrong with the yellow paint lol

@jaybee8862

3 ай бұрын

Should be optional tho... Eg a settings option where u can toggle the hints and pathing help

The Mirror's Edge games allowed you to turn off the "red help" highlights to make everything feel more natural. Loved playing it that way, the experience was definitely different.

@eliaspanayi3465

3 ай бұрын

I liked to use it because it adds to the fluid feeling of the parkour.

@ShadowPhoenix82

2 ай бұрын

Hahaha, that's wild to hear. But this is exactly why all of these things should always be optional, so people that don't like them can turn them off and people that need or prefer them can keep them on.

@PaulGuy

2 ай бұрын

Horizon Forbidden West put the yellow paint in for climbing (finding the right routes could be very annoying in the first game), but you had to manually trigger it through the in-game help device. Stuff like this is a great compromise.

@JeremySteinWolfe98

2 ай бұрын

i don't understand why more games don't do this. I feel like this is objectively great game design and easily implemented. That option would fit perfectly in the accessibility settings

@vancesirron9170

2 ай бұрын

But even if you didn't, the red colored areas fit with the color palette of that game and still felt natural.

One of the modern Tomb Raiders did it perfectly. On easy mode there's yellow paint, on normal there isn't.

@enthiegavoir5955

2 ай бұрын

I'd rather have yellow paint than Lara constantly repeating what the puzzle is tbh

@Rad_Wizrrd

2 ай бұрын

@@enthiegavoir5955 That's a perfectly valid point. The reason I praise Tomb Raider here is because they gave us the choice. I'd love games to also give a choice not to have dialog tips.

@raffyarceus99

2 ай бұрын

I think yellow paint is just bad, finding a solution to a problem is just part of the satisfaction no?​@@Rad_Wizrrd

@Rad_Wizrrd

2 ай бұрын

@@raffyarceus99 I completely agree. When I see paint it makes me feel like why do I have to do the climbing at all. I don't mind if others want the paint though and I'm not judging those who wanting something different from a game than I do. As long as it can be turned off I'm more than happy.

After the Dragons Dogma fiasco it was obvious that yellow ledges were literally made for him...

@Aggrofool

3 ай бұрын

This has gotta be a bait video to farm us. It's gotta be.

@FlyBigBenz

3 ай бұрын

Fiasco 😂😂😂

@someball.

3 ай бұрын

Yes, and against his will as well. That's where level and UX designers often get it wrong. Who decided that he wants blatant handholding? He wants to do without, he wants to take his time and figure things out in his pace. He might take 2 hours to figure it out but still prefers that over blatant handholding. But all that discourse immediately falls apart anyway whenever people realise that there is always handholding in game, and that when it is done exceptionally well, people just don't notice it and have the best of both worlds: 1. they can interact and navigate effortlessly and often know intuitively what to do 2. they never get confronted with blatant hand-holding and can have their journey of figuring it out themselves, without getting frustrated due to impossibly unintuitive riddles. Hand-holding isn't bad, bad hand-holding is bad

@decree72

3 ай бұрын

honestly we got climbing lines on such rock walls which are coloured with their difficulty, so colour on such climbing wall is not total off

@OTCplayboyP

3 ай бұрын

If the ledges weren't bright yellow asmon would never know climbing was in the game. If it were in a text box tht filled half the screen he wouldn't know climbing was in the game lmao

> gets lost when not guided > gets madge when guided =)

@RenderingUser

3 ай бұрын

The struggles of being a gamedev man.

@deepsavings3126

3 ай бұрын

That's why the point of the video is being guided but in an immersive way that makes sense to the game's world.

@SmittyWJManJensen

3 ай бұрын

​@@deepsavings3126 Yep, signposting is not bad, it's just that having a stroke of yellow paint in a rock in the middle of fucking nowhere is very immersion breaking. At least make it so that the climbable spots are more worn out or make it stand out more by making them bigger. I like having my hand held, just don't smear paint all over my palm.

@zym6687

3 ай бұрын

Yes, I want to get lost.

@user-kb7kz3zk6l

3 ай бұрын

@@zym6687 same

Some people in the comments already said similar things, but I remember when I was playing Skyrim The Dragonborn Gallery mod quest, you have a quest during which the museum is haunted and you need to cleanse it. During the quest you need to find several items, and there are NO MARKERS. You NEED to look for them all around the museum. Once enough time has passed, the quest gives you a marker where the item is. You can wait 24hours in game to get the marker quickly, or you can also look out for the item yourself without any hint. Gives the player the choice, and let them play the way they want.

@ailonrouge

2 ай бұрын

the real problem half the time is that they don't make the dialogue able to help without the marker(skyrim, fallout 4, fallout 3)

@Callaghan552

14 күн бұрын

In Morrowind, you got given directions by NPCs and if you wanted a marker on a map you got your physical map out and put it there. And the in-game journal was so bad that if you wanted to keep track of your quests you had to write your own journal. I hated it at the time but now I miss it.

@ailonrouge

14 күн бұрын

@@Callaghan552 they fixed the journal problem in a dlc

God of War PS4 is the use of yellow paint, since you learn that the mother of Atreus can see the future so she marked out a panther for her son and husband to go. That makes sense and but that is the only time yellow paint feels natural that comes to mind. I know there is probably more that make since but that is the first one that comes to my mind.

They should put yellow paint in the grocery store - I’m always lost in there

@you_tube6733

3 ай бұрын

they had big blue arrows on the ground all through covid.....

@ironmaiden93ofangmar

3 ай бұрын

Underrated comment

@rossmcdonald5600

3 ай бұрын

Some games just aren't for you though. I'm the same, that's why my wife plays Grocery Store, and not me.

@you_tube6733

3 ай бұрын

@GHOSTSTARSCREAMM or put maps everywhere like the zoozs and disneyland. pig colorfull pictures

@jaybee8862

3 ай бұрын

That's how we design our hospitals here... follow the black line to the morgue, follow the red line to the emergency waiting room, follow the yellow line, talk to the nurse and tell her what's wrong... Pink line to the pregnancy ward, blue to xray lab, orange to surgery lol

To be fair there's been plenty of times games have held your hand with literal prompts on screen during a stream and you fail to understand what's going on.

@justinmadrid8712

3 ай бұрын

Playing dumb for content, or just too lazy.

@Wishtap

3 ай бұрын

@@justinmadrid8712 Probably

@Insanity-vv9nn

3 ай бұрын

@@justinmadrid8712I struggle to understand these kind of people. This is not just for games, most of movies reviews have stuff like: “the plot is confusing”….when the story is very on your face the whole time, so I can only assume these people are either stupid or didn’t paid attention…or both.

@alexwinters6768

3 ай бұрын

@@Insanity-vv9nn It's pretty easy to explain. You ever go on autopilot in your 9-5 job when you're not feeling it and make a mistake? It's pretty much just that, streamers and reviewers both have more external pressure and sometimes deadlines than you or I playing to relax, we're not feeling it we can just put a game down and move over to another game. That and I'm 98% sure this is just part of that phenomenon where we always remember when other people get something wrong but forget how often we make mistakes ourselves and if everyone here had every mistake they made clipped we'd all look bad at videogames through that lens.

@MasterIceyy

3 ай бұрын

My brother was telling me about people complaining about the yellow paint in Rebirth, and I just told him, that just as many people would complain about getting lost, confused or not knowing what or where to go next because the game doesn't openly tell them where they need to go. You can't please everyone

I genuinely hate when a game establishes a base line for solving a problem like scaling walls, then proceed to put up invisible walls later because they want those obstacles solved a different/specific way.

Another example of good signposting is in Sekiro, where ledges you can hang off have white scratches on them, and there are some hidden doors with an imprint that looks like someone in the wall-hug position. There are certain areas or items you might miss if you don't notice those signs, but there's also that sense of accomplishment and "ooooh I found a thing" that is enjoyable.

@Turn1t0ff

24 күн бұрын

And the grabbable kites. Sekiro was so good for seemless world traversal as long as you picked up on the subtle hints.

bro couldnt play jedi survivor or play dragons dogma without blowing a fuse LMAO

@Tier100

3 ай бұрын

He even got lost and frustrated in elden ring and calls it now a good example for "getting lost"

@cb6667

3 ай бұрын

Soooooo????

@ChaoticNeutralMatt

3 ай бұрын

Yes, playing a game on stream for public entertainment is exactly the same as playing it alone for personal enjoyment. No conflicts of attention at all.

@jakematterson8652

3 ай бұрын

@@ChaoticNeutralMatt The problem is he claims they are different but acts like they are not. Is not self-aware, and then gets assmad for it. You can't say playing for personal and stream are different, recognize the difference, but then chimp out. This in fact means you don't. In Asmon's own words. If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it is a duck.

@NewsofPE

3 ай бұрын

@@ChaoticNeutralMattas if other streamers weren't capable of doing such things, plenty of capable people out there with more than two neurons

Didnt we just go through this with dragons dogma and asmongold? People need yellow paint, even a big flashing sign and auto movement 😂😂😂

@ETBrooD

3 ай бұрын

Asmon would figure out a way to miss all of that

@leonidalexeev8072

3 ай бұрын

More like streamers and journalists need and not average players. There should be an option in games like For players - without handholding, and For streamers - with arrows and yellow markers on the walls

@DMsubble

3 ай бұрын

no devs need to add an option to have them on or off

@terrastriker5684

3 ай бұрын

@@DMsubble why go through the effort when its a fact majority of people just dont care about it.

@drewzle837

3 ай бұрын

@@terrastriker5684this exactly. The resources required to have these options versus the number of people that actually care? Super disproportionate. It wouldn’t make sense to postpone a release 2 - 3 more months to appease .001% of the player base.

I find all Pokemon games unplayable for their CONSTANT tutorials at the start and walking 2 steps causes a cutscene or whatever to interrupt you.

Genshin does a great job of signposting maze like areas by putting seelies around (which you follow to a spot they can rest to spawn a chest) which sometimes guide you a to a new path (that might be easy to miss) or the way forward. Since it’s also used mainly as an activity to get chests, you almost don’t realize the devs are using it to communicate direction. Its brilliant.

There's a balance. The problem isn't the signposting, the problem is that sign is literally yellow paint on the ledge saying "climb here!" Like the giant omnipotent cloud said, "When you do things right, they won't be sure you've done anything at all."

Yellow paint can be bad, but NOTHING is worse than the NPC companion that blurts out where you should be going or what you should be looking out for. Especially when it's during a puzzle, it completely ruins the puzzle element and just makes it a "listen to someone and do what they say" segment of the game.

@BlazeMakesGames

3 ай бұрын

Jedi Survivor/Fallen Order has the best version of that imo where if you get stuck at a puzzle, it gives you a *prompt* to ask for a hint from BD-1, instead of just forcing it upon you. Especially compared to say God of War Ragnarok where NPCs refuse to give you even 10 seconds to solve a puzzle before they start blurting out hunts

@jhamer18

3 ай бұрын

God of war ragnarok is the prime example Your companion instantly solves the puzzles for you

@crashzone6600

3 ай бұрын

I hate the npc that comments on when you mess up or when you die the most. But backseat gaming is a pet peeve for all gamers as far as I know. Like I've not met a single one that does not hate it.

@johnlinks

3 ай бұрын

Why, people need it. It's not a big deal. I'd rather not sit there for 5 hours trying to figure out something stupid when it could just tell me a hint

@Gingersnappies

3 ай бұрын

Hogwarts legacy did this SO badly. I’d be in the middle of solving a puzzle and they’re constantly telling me what I should try. I just kept yelling “I KNOOWW SHUT UP AND LET ME DO IT”

People are just complainers nowadays. Back then game mechanics weren't explained very well and had some weird or wonky stuff and we just enjoy it regardless

I agree that it relates to immersion, and feelings; but I think there is an additional element to the context. If a "yellow-paint" path was instead glowing; with a big sign saying "GO THIS WAY" its even more "hand holding"; but it was clear that it is hand holding. The yellow paint feels like a participation trophy... "hey you FOUND something" of course I found it, you painted it a distinct color.... Imagine instead a waterfall. As a veteran gamer you jump into the waterfall. Option A: you find nothing and go; "yeah but I had to check I AM A GAMER after all" Option B: you find a diamond and go; I have earned this I AM A GAMER after all" Option C: you find a sign which reads "You are 30 and have played too many video games, sir" and go .... "I got got"

the yellow paint in FF7 Rebirth was made, cause game influencers who were given early access to the game at SE studio's, complained about where to climb, because they could not SEE the ledges to climb in game. they kept on falling..... there are a few game influencers who complained about it publicly.

@Uryendel

3 ай бұрын

It's a legit complain, but painting the mountain in yellow is not the solution, it's out of place. A more natural implementation would have been to put grass/flower on the edge you can grab

@lichylickyrick8864

3 ай бұрын

Or if push comes to shove and no solutions came up, make it so the climbable ledges are highlighted, at least that way from a distances it would still look normal to the rest of the environment

@SeverinoCatule

3 ай бұрын

@@Uryendel 100+ hours game > complain about climbing

@Uryendel

3 ай бұрын

@@SeverinoCatulebecause the game is 100+ hours we can't complain?

@MrMooMoo088

3 ай бұрын

​@Uryendel no one's saying that but it's like complaining that a diner that specializes in salad doesn't have hamburgers. This is not a platforming game.

It all could be solved by a simple setting: "streamer/game urinalist mode" that enables all the handholding features.

@legionofanon

3 ай бұрын

In a way this, but something games already have, accesability settings. Just make it a toggle on in the menu, or like some old games where you press or press and hold a button

@TundraCrow

3 ай бұрын

Something to remind them of abilities they haven't used for over 2 hours.

@satoro26

3 ай бұрын

I think Mirrors edge had this. You could toggle the hints on and off. Dunno why more games don't do this.

@autman

3 ай бұрын

Urinalist lol

@user-nx1wv2ws6r

3 ай бұрын

You think people that cannot figure out that dashing after jumping gives you more air coverage will be smart enough to go to the settings?

Metroid’s scans and Witcher 3’s sense features are also good implementation examples IMO

I feel that both of them miss the point of legitimate complaints about signposting. It's not about being guided in "some way" It's about the game developers very concretely painting over my UI, like little kids with crayons. Unfortunately, there are many ways to make internal sense of it, due to the nature of games often having an unrealistic setting. With Augmented Reality, you could even build that into all the games with modern realistic settings.

Oh, ffs, he's complaining again about "hand holding in video games". It's literally made for you. We've all seen you get lost while playing MHW, Elden ring, DDDA and you only got through them with brute force.

@ETBrooD

3 ай бұрын

Don't forget a million fanboys yelling at him to go right or left for the whole stream

@you_tube6733

3 ай бұрын

and never once did he reach out for sombodys hand😂😂😂

@you_tube6733

3 ай бұрын

​@@ETBrooDwich he ignored

@FlyBigBenz

3 ай бұрын

And yall still watch him every single time he plays a new game. He does this shi every time, and he aint changing. So why u hating...

@JohnHurt-ym5jq

3 ай бұрын

@@FlyBigBenz hating and pointing out hypocrisy are not the same thing, is that really so hard for you to grasp? its like 4th grade stuff

I think we all know who hand holding in games really exists for though lol

@wishiwasaneet26816

3 ай бұрын

I'm sure game journos would find your comment quite offensive if they could read.

@Bimpz.

3 ай бұрын

​@@wishiwasaneet26816 pretty sure they are talking about asmon

@ETBrooD

3 ай бұрын

@@Bimpz. Although to be fair, wishi has a point. Asmon is one dysfunctional right-click removed from being a game journalist

@Groadergreen

3 ай бұрын

Streamer or journalist mode

@Aggrofool

3 ай бұрын

Streamers are the new games journalists

I liked the Farcry Primal approach where you could enable a hunter's vision to see things easier in the nature environment, from animals, to climable areas.

Another old-school way of hinting at missed content or towards the direction of a quest task is for example how Diablo 2 did it. There was no marker or arrow pointing you in the right direction, but every time you unlocked a new waypoint you immediately noticed any missing waypoints before your current location. So either at that point, or once you have completed the act, you are naturally going to assume that your missing quests will most likely be in those areas. That approach is kind of rough around the edges, but evidently it did work for fairly popular games. In more traditional RPGs you can use a greyed out map in a similar way. Though RPGs will most likely have quests that need to be done in a certain order or with urgency, so there does need to be better directions for those, at least.

In the original FF7, you could choose to show or not the indicators by pushing select. If the exit of a panel wasn't so obvious to you, you could push select and have a little hand pointing finger at your character, and little red arrows indicating exits. But you had the choice to use them or not

@morewi

3 ай бұрын

Same in this one too. That's why people crying about in the FF7 remake is ridiculous

@sdbzfan1

3 ай бұрын

​​@@morewithe ps5 doesnt have a select button what are you talking about

@m4ur1r4g3

3 ай бұрын

@@sdbzfan1 rebirth has more climbing sections than in the tutorial and i can't remember that they were painted yellow lol

@morewi

3 ай бұрын

@@sdbzfan1 yeah it's like a menu option now. You too lazy to look it up

@detective2221

3 ай бұрын

@@morewi What?

I mean.. Asmon is quite literally the target audience for the yellow paint.

@Safsal

3 ай бұрын

He's not because he doesn't read anything

@alien0gamer139

3 ай бұрын

@@Safsal He is because he doesn't read anything

@MrMooMoo088

3 ай бұрын

​@@Safsalwell how much brighter do they need to make it if you don't want to read

@MinnySteppa

3 ай бұрын

he is pushing 40 with a brain of a 9 year old

@yuesu2325

3 ай бұрын

It wouldn't help him, his brain would filter out the yellow paint.

The one reason for the yellow paint specifically is that in the game only some ledges are able to be grabbed onto, and there are many entirely decorative rock bits and pipes and stuff that if it were a real physical object you could grab onto but because its a video game not every object visually displayed is physically interactable. But the yellow paint is so glaringly obvious literally high vis, that it just sucks. Maybe put in a little more effort to making the visuals and physicals matvh up and clearly visually differentiate the grabbable stuff with the decorative stuff. Place it out of the way, separate it from the stuff youre working with, and remove the extraneous non interactable ledges.

I just got done with 100% for Tunic. 65% was done by exploration, figuring out subtle clues and solving intuitive puzzles, but the other 35% required decoding/translating symbols and codes using the dev's external sources. I'm not quite patient enough to spend hours on end doing that stuff, so I looked up discussions online where people did a lot of the extrapolation, and took advantage of that. It still left me with a little to put together myself, and that was reward enough to see the 100% pop. Tunic definitely doesn't hold your hand, but the clues, once understood make orientation and problem solving very straightforward. A very well implemented guidance system in an otherwise fairly simple game mechanically which has some real depth to the other elements of gameplay such as deciphering puzzle solutions etc. Multi-layered and well crafted. The devs certainly put a lot of devotion and ingenuity into the game.

I'd like it if the yellow paint was turned off by default but have an option to turn it on, as someone with vision issues without the paint it would take me ages to find the way. But it should be an option to have on or off.

@ETBrooD

3 ай бұрын

People with color blindness would definitely benefit hugely from something like that. They constantly run past useful items they literally can't see. Game developers would be well-advised to try to accomodate them with optional settings

@dingchavez9904

3 ай бұрын

@@ETBrooD yeah I wish there were more options for people with sight issues, as I've just finished ff7 rebirth, during exploration I could play for about an hour or 2 until my eyes started to really strain but during combat with all the particle effects I could do maybe 3 or 4 fights then it gets a bit much. There needs to be more options for people with poor vision.

@emdo.unlimited555

3 ай бұрын

Even for the ones without vision issues, have it as an option for those who want hands held vs those who dont

@Joe-it2dh

3 ай бұрын

I would be more open to it being an OPTION but not mandatory and definitely not forced into every single game produced, which it currently pretty much is.

As a rat is unaware it is looking at itself in a mirror, asmon is unaware the handholding is for him

@StMargorach

3 ай бұрын

I'm personally blaming the participation trophy, everyone is a winner, everyone is special generation for hand holding in games. These kids can't handle not being able to figure it out in 3 seconds, because they have never faced adversity or had to struggle with not understanding or losing. So if they don't understand it right away, they get frustrated /angry and it MUST be because it's a bad game. And not because they just suck....

@edmilsoneletrica

3 ай бұрын

​@@StMargorach I helped a guy on Reddit to get Silent Hill 1 up and running. He didn't know the first thing about emulation and he didn't seem to know much about computers. He gave up on the game after less than 1 hour of playing. He said the combat was bad but the main reason is because: "The game is too hard" He said the game doesn't have Quests, doesn't tell you what to do. Of course the games do have Quests/Objectives. Sometimes it tells you what to do and other times you have to understand them from the clues that were given. But God forbid to actually have to USE YOUR BRAIN.

@aaaawubadugh8054

3 ай бұрын

@@edmilsoneletrica That’s definitely not me currently. I just don’t know where to go I went through the alleyway, gathered 2 keys, and the other paths are blocked off.

@StMargorach

3 ай бұрын

@@edmilsoneletrica myeah..... I have no words for that.....

@bradkirchhoff5703

3 ай бұрын

Watch the full video before commenting lmao. He says its for him. He literally says this in this video. Pay attention…

I remember playing a puzzle game once where I had to rotate pieces on the box to form a picture, and aligning the pieces into the correct picture would unlock the box. I was stuck on it for like an hour and a half because none of the combinations worked. Then I noticed that, with each rotating piece, the game let me rotate each piece halfway. I'd been rotating the pieces through the halfway points every time, but I never fully noticed it let me go halfway until that point. 2 minutes later I solved the puzzle and unlocked the box.

ngl I never noticed the yellow paint in RE4 Remake when I played it. but I guess that's partly because I've already played the OG and I see a barrel or box and I remember, "Okay, I knife that and it has goodies in it" But maybe this case it's actually being done well because I didn't notice it was there.

I want the handholding to be a crumb trail, not a red carpet.

@johnnybravo8664

3 ай бұрын

@@zogwort1522 your mother

@clankfish

3 ай бұрын

@@zogwort1522 what the hell are you on about lmao

@raz9305

3 ай бұрын

Using a Fuck Portal on Mario is wild.

@desertdude540

2 ай бұрын

I liked the old style of signposting better, where the designers would place items, switches, or enemies so that just playing the game would lead you down the right path.

You didn’t knew about the goblin in DD because you don’t read!

@randalthor6872

3 ай бұрын

@user-gt7vi9jm9m correct. I just did that quest last night without the goblin ; P

With respect to yellow ledges, the issue is probably that you are meant to parkour around and without aiming, even auto-aiming, most people would splat against a wall or the ground when they missed the target that would be likely almost invisible against the background. IIRC, Mirror's Edge used color-based highlighting of various objects you could interact with 15 years ago, and I don't recall anyone complaining then.

you also get an achievement for locating all the lambdas in half life 2 which gives you an incentive to find them

Asmon my poor boy needs as much hand holding as humanly possible.

@ETBrooD

3 ай бұрын

It's fine, he has a thousand fanboys yelling at him 24/7. He can even ban them so they're entirely optional!

When it comes specifically to FF7 Rebirth, environments are so busy and ledges so often unclimbable, that not having a visual indicator for climbing would be really frustrating.

@spartythespart

3 ай бұрын

i feel like this is the real issue, games where you can't climb shouldn't suddenly introduce climbing elements because even that is immersion breaking, because now you are asking why wasn't climbing ever possible before in all these other situations where they were railroaded. Thats why you need yellow paint in the first place is the player is already thinking they cant climb.

@supergold9390

3 ай бұрын

Imagine having to hug every single wall in this huge game trying to figure out if you can interact with it.

@Khunark

3 ай бұрын

just make all ledges climbable, simpleton lol

@phantomaigis2291

3 ай бұрын

I've recently played og ff7 on ps1..... the same frustrating navigation problem

@lydellb

3 ай бұрын

​​@@Khunark...that's basically what they're saying. Either make them all climbable or make none of them climbable. Having climbing be just a set piece is the reason this gets used a lot.

a good one for the whole content hidden for me is cyberpunk 2077. while the main story is directed, there are certain quests and side stories and even in some side stories, you need to go out of your way to do something extra to find out the actual story and have the best ending. like there are quests where you can kill a person and the quest is finished, but if you dont kill them and do some interactions either with them or go through the area to find clues and what not, you will find the actual reality and see that there is more to it than given before.

Old miyamoto interview said that part of good games are learning and experimenting as you go. Growing. You can't hold someone's hand constantly. You can show them things, teach them things, but they should take that knowledge from there and start applying and experimenting. Too many modern games think you're stupid. They make games for DSP (literally look at God of War GDC they use DSP clips). People should be upset about this. Big games think you're dumb.

@ZarHakkar

2 ай бұрын

Because they feel the need to maximize profits by appealing to the lowest common denominator. Unfortunately, the lowest common denominator statistically consists of perceptually-blind idiots who easily get frustrated and give up if they don't know what to do.

The division 2 uses yellow sign posting to signal some ledges/platforms you can climb on but it actually fits the overall design of the game since it's represented as the yellow biohazard material that makes up all the quarentined areas in the map.

@jomiguides

3 ай бұрын

I want some more division/ destiny like games. Not the second destiny. Miss those days

Haven't watched the video yet... but the thumbnail and title immediately reminded me of a Developer Commentary from either Portal or HL2. The developer stated that there was a balance to strike in making players feel like they discovered the path, but without having it blatantly pointed out or leaving them stranded in a directionless environment. It's a fascinating challenge for the team to sort out. VALVe games frequently made use of subtle lighting to bring attention to areas of interest. But the key is that the lighting made sense to exist in the first place, given the theme and conditions of where you are. Anyone who's played Portal 2 can attest to how well it's done when you're in the dilapidated test chambers and have to clear large gaps without catwalks. There isn't an obvious "structure" taking you to the next area, just small cues. It's brilliant. EDIT: Of course both of these titles are heavily showcased here lol go figure

Honestly, the whole "yellow paint" hand holding stuff should be given an option to disable it for the people who don't want it, but the option will still be there for people who do want/need it

Ehh idk about calling it "sign posting" a better term would be Design Affordance (which sign posting is a subset of) In older games if you see a stone wall with grooves and/or ledges you'd know you can climb it but with the graphics today those grooves/ledges can easily get lost in the detail of the wall and fancy dim lighting. Yellow paint is a lazy trend but it exists because it's easier then getting several departments to work together (texturing, lighting, level design, and even art direction)

judging by how he played DD1, yes hand-holding is very much needed asmon, for gamers like YOU

@yous2244

3 ай бұрын

Yeah he's old, like old people who can't understand technology. Only playing WOW is also a cause

@BiggieSleeze

3 ай бұрын

The video is about bad hand holding not hand holding as a whole, actually watch the video

@MrMooMoo088

3 ай бұрын

​@reecelaverick2675 is it? Just seems like playing into the algorithm which loves these kind of videos now. Most of these people play games that do not advertise needing any type of execution or skill, but run away from any game that actually does.

Dragon Dogma no handhold， Asmon： can't play this game

@pyrosupreme4473

3 ай бұрын

He just stopped playing on stream I thought. He said he put 10 hours into it so far after the two hour stream

@snowygrass7866

3 ай бұрын

@@pyrosupreme4473 yeah in a previous video, i forgot which one, as he was going through his games he had like 13 hrs on DD1.

I can get behind a minimap telling me where to go since I know that it's not supposed to be an actual canonical thing in-game, but I just can't believe some character in-game just decided to paint yellow paint to mark the same route I have to follow

Resident evil 4 remake is one of the worst offenders. They'll put yellow paint on a ladder that's at the end of a linear path that's literally the only way you can go. It's so pointless i wish we could turn it off.

I think the problem with the yellow paint and "protagonist won't shut up with obvious hints" is amplified a lot by it not going away and lasting the whole game. It gets really bloody old really quick even if you'd need it to start.

@viejitaloca2810

3 ай бұрын

literally the only thing stopping me from playing the new god of war saga is having the kid and the annoying head taking to you at every moment, be 2 minutes in a puzzle? they gonna repeat the same line 140 times

@zerobolt9506

3 ай бұрын

Yea, but then once it's gone you then get lost & don't know what to do, cause by that point you got use to it 😅

@IcecalGamer

3 ай бұрын

@OP. Bare with me, sry wall-o-txt. What is even worse is the the added side effect of: I wanted to look at the lore or the wall paining's/ murals (the Oh! this is cool; What is this? moment) But i just can't listen to the same 1-2 voice lines every 10 seconds telling me to do X and then Y. So I'm just gonna SKIP everything. At that point the immersion and world-building is gone and it's just about the end goal. "I need to get to the top of the tower" "I should find a way to the top" ... ... "I need to get to the top of the tower" "I should find a way to the top" "I need..." SKIP!!! Jump. Climb. Hover. Run. 10 minutes later "I got to the top. Now to get the MC'muffin". FINALLY ! Arcane Door puzzle > YT guide > " Ok this is your boy Streamer-manTV telling you how to open the door: It is pretty easy since the clues were on the vases and sconces on your way up"

@clawgerber1992

2 ай бұрын

@IcecalGamer That's a false dichotomy. There's any number of ways to guide the player to a solution without resorting to either extreme. And pretty much any puzzle that you aren't directly given the answer to in game is going to have some number of people Googling the solution. It's unavoidable and not a good standard.

That one line here is spot on: signposting is vital, but the player must not realise it's happening. The problem with the yellow paint is it's way too blatant: people aren't just reading it as "here's the way to go," they're reading it as "we think you're a complete idiot who doesn't know what they're doing and need to hand-hold you through everything."

I sort of agree with it. but I also think part of the problem is when to implement sign posting. I think puzzle segments probably shouldn't have sign posting and instead should just be mechanically consistent (I consider traversal to be a puzzle element too), I like to figure out puzzles (and if I don't want to for whatever reason I can web search it), if a puzzle is sign posted it completely ruins the puzzle for me. the problem with sign posting is that the balance of to little/to much is entirely dependent on individual intelligence much like how challenge is entirely dependent on skill. the latter two points just highlight how "a game for everyone is a game for no one".

Game: I'll tell you where to go, what to do, what to touch, what to say, where to look, what to think...

i thought they meant a different kind of hand holding

@remu_remu

3 ай бұрын

UwU

@johnkuhn8718

3 ай бұрын

Both have been hot topics on the channel recently lol

@IchbinX

3 ай бұрын

My first thought was, "Oh, Asmon's covering anime now?"

@alexzander1142

3 ай бұрын

​@@remu_remuyou are not real 💀

@steveo9284

3 ай бұрын

Unprotected hand holding

That's why I like compromises like Eagle Vision or Witcher Sense because you have the option to figure things out yourself or use the ability if you need help/guidance. The problems start when that system becomes a crutch and you now HAVE to use it in order to solve the thing. It is now no longer optional.

@elmhurstenglish5938

3 ай бұрын

Yep, games using that option should be designed to not need that guidance. RDR2 is a good example with the map - using just signs and landmarks, you can navigate fairly well, or use a map if stuck. Same with hunting - you can look at actual tracks or bring up the eagle vision.

@buddybarlow9604

3 ай бұрын

I felt like with maps like Elden Ring and RDR2 i learned the map better through signs and landmarks, i enjoying navigating because it forced me to remember certain things on the map and i love it.@@elmhurstenglish5938

@RenaldTremblay

3 ай бұрын

OH, please ! the witcher is basically a game where you follow a quest marker to the next location, have some dialog, spam the ttack button a few times and then repeat. it has yellow paint all across it. the best part is gwent.

@TechnoMinarchistBall

2 ай бұрын

​@@RenaldTremblayYou can turn off all markers. It works. You just have to listen more carefully to quests.

@RenaldTremblay

2 ай бұрын

@@TechnoMinarchistBall nope ! i tried ! theres no way to figure out the quests without the cursor that tells you where to go. you dont get enough info. "meet that woman in that town" ok. i get to the town and where is she ? i cannot ask NPCs, what do i do ? theres no way. i tried bro. i tried...

I do agree with Asmongold on this,here's my take: Signposting isnt really a bad feature in video games,do mmorpg authors think i have time to look for NPC "Brian" in 1000x1000 km wide world and hundreds of interior worlds at the end of the game? That's where signposting is really usefull,aswell as type of signposting that if you cant solve the puzzle you can push a button and see the clues to a puzzle and those clues make your head click and you think "ooooh,so that's how its done",though i DO WANNA try myself before using that type of fail safe And the signposting that is treating you as a player like a child that cant move without having yellow paint carpet before player,i totally dislike that,it removes exploration fun from the game and feels very weird immersion wise

@RealTonyMontana

2 ай бұрын

A game can tell you where to go without placing an objective marker over an NPC’s head. It’s so easy to have the play discover a note that tells them exactly where to go. Instead most developers are too lazy and throw in objective markers everywhere because of people like you

2:08 Asmongold complaining about games not communicating direction but he doesn't ever bother to read the in game tips/guides/tutorials. The irony is insane.

If the yellow paint didn't exist Asmon literally wouldn't be able to play most games.

@bradkirchhoff5703

3 ай бұрын

Thats exactly what he said. Lol. He says he watches ppl play games for the first time too and feels the same way when watching them. You ppl are acting like hes oblivious to it but he owns it lmao…🤷‍♂️

@bradkirchhoff5703

3 ай бұрын

He says he knows hes dumb when playing and has seen even dumber ppl playing games.

4:25 bro called this a straw man argument and then proceeded to straw man the argument lmao

Great example: yellow crates / barrels for loot bad because it feels weird and strange *Red* barrels / crates for explosive good because you would absolutely expect something highly explosive and dangerous to be brightly coloured. And you learn very quickly after the first time you blow one up.

The indie parkour fantasy rpg "Crystal Project" is a great example of no hand holding, had so much more fun with it than most

I do think it was pretty funny how often he would raise a point or an example about what I was talking about, only for the next part of my video to use almost the exact same example lol

Dead Space pointing in the direction whenever you wanted was really nice in a place i kept getting lost in.

Theres also the "I already was going to do that but now that you have told me to I don't want to anymore"

Ah yes, the sense of accomplishment from climbing a wall.

What I love most is the instant you're in the deserts of Corel, the jungles of Gongaga, or the flying routes of Cosmo Canyon, all of which have terrain you have to explore and work out on your own, the same people complaining about highlighted climbing points devolve into whining about not knowing where to go and calling it bad design.

@fartlordsmellytoe3690

3 ай бұрын

Me?

I think my personal favorite sign post is enemy positioning. If you find enemies, you're going in the right direction.

Crazy how the only direction in elden ring was the way the graces pointed and it was still so vague

The joke write itself. this is so ironic it is hilarious.

The ideal thing is a middle ground, don't hold hands but if the player doesn't progress for a while then add some lore accurate way of pinging him to know where to go or what to do

@cmike123

3 ай бұрын

That is asking a lot for a ton of developers. Most of these games struggle with basic shit at launch.

@wood5241

3 ай бұрын

Easier said than done. Also thats gotta add so many unnecessary shit to the game. So much talking and info dump just for ledges to climb? Seems stupid

That story of Asmongold saying that were trying to figure out how to face the Gryphin, remind me of how much trouble I had trying to figure out how to face the hydra at the first boss fight. The pawns were telling me to try throwing a barrel when it opens its mouth, but I had to figure out by myself that I had to jump on the throat of the hydra with the barrel on the neck and slice it, since none of them were telling me that.

Hand holding needs to be lore friendly. The yellow paint treats you like an idiot. It breaks immersion. With Portal it makes sense because it's a testing facility. In Left 4 Dead they used the light mechanic to guide players. Elden Ring had the map point towards something and that's about it. Lore friendly stuff works.

@sayLeotardbutsayitChinese

2 ай бұрын

Elden ring had one of the most "this is a tutorial" tutorial segments I have ever seen lmao

Horizon was the first time I encountered the yellow paint indicating climbing handholds, but they partially explained it by saying the other people painted them to pave the way. That was ok for me, although I liked the climbing in the ac Ezio trilogy more because you could recognize the handholds after a few hours and it was more fulfilling to find the correct path

@cmike123

3 ай бұрын

That is Asmon's point. However, if content is missable and you dont figure out the mechanics until a few hours in, you are probably not going to go back to that lower level content. Even worse, if you only partially understand some mechanics, you may be missing *even more* stuff. What tends to happen then is you think the game is garbage because you completely missed huge swathes of content.

@ruigerd

3 ай бұрын

@@cmike123 I only watched a part of the video when I typed this, not a good habit but I usually forget some points I wanted to address after a long video. But yeah, I agree that missing some semi crucial stuff can hurt the experience. Unfortunately that causes me to look up some stuff online beforehand (missables for example) which can make the experience less. The best way would be to replay a game until you know all the inns and outs but there are just too many games to play for that to be feasible

@patrickboian8545

3 ай бұрын

I always loved that the ac climbing was the parts of the buildings like old bricks, smoke stacks, chimneys, etc.

@nathanperquin9910

3 ай бұрын

@@cmike123 it doesn't help that asmon as a rule just does not read how to play the game when it instructs him and then blames the game for it

@PaulGuy

2 ай бұрын

Then Ezio will randomly jump off a building you're climbing when 300 feet up.

This must be satire

@pyrosupreme4473

3 ай бұрын

How so? He agrees hand holding needs to be in games

@syriek

3 ай бұрын

​@@pyrosupreme4473 because asmon putting a serious face to complain about this, meanwhile he's worse than my dog learning where to go, what to do in every new game he plays

The thing about those rocks tho is it is introducing the mechanic, further down the line theres things to climb that aren't visible and actually hard to see.

"strong internal logic" i should start amplifying his voice somehow. this guy is truly gold.

Hello pot, meet kettle.

People complain but then are stumped in the opening level of a tutorial because of the lack of yellow or white paint. This level of hand holding is there to help those people.

@rickycool6083

3 ай бұрын

And those people need to learn the right way. This level of handholding just looks weird and out of place.

Can you imagine if _Takeshi's Challenge_ had any hand-holding?

It's always fun to watch Asmongold pretend like he's a game development wizard

@eliaspanayi3465

3 ай бұрын

You don't need to know how to develop a game to know when you feel the game is too aggressively dictating your intended path to you.

Asmon needs MORE yellow paint not LESS!!!

The handholding really is good for when you only can play games like 2 times a week, or when you are easily visually overwhelmed with the level of detail you have in some modern games

@sbdnsngdsnsns31312

3 ай бұрын

The answer is to fix the level design. Level of detail isn’t an issue if the details don’t look like interactable elements. The issues start when it becomes obvious to the player the only reason a surface is climbable is because the devs manually marked it as climbable. The yellow paint just makes the dev’s fuckup obvious, and players with enough gaming experience can just intuit how the devs will place climbable surfaces. The correct answer is that something should look like it would be climbable IRL if and only if it *is* climbable.

@wingsoficarus1139

3 ай бұрын

@@sbdnsngdsnsns31312 Assassins creed is the perfect example of good level design. You can learn what's climbable in that game despite no clear indicators by simply playing the game.

@kero2422

3 ай бұрын

@@sbdnsngdsnsns31312 you are not wrong. For me it just doesnt matter anymore if devs use "yellow paint" or some other way to guide the player. What I care for is a good story.

I'd upvote this video but there's no yellow paint to show me which button to press.

There's no point in searching when there's a huge signal or beacon pointing you where and what to do.

mirrors edge is the MOST red on white paint hand holding game yet. lol

Editors, bring the clip of Asmon playing that Star Wars Jedi game where he was stuck for genuine minutes just cause he refused to pay attention to the tutorial and didn't know how to hold and drag a bomb

Dead Island 2 was smart with this. The Yellow paint in some areas was usually in a spot where someone was painting, or boxes of paint, or spilled paint. They also used Dead zombies blood, and other liquids to direct you.

I love how this video has the "Dragon's Dogma" tag. Asmon's editor knows what's up.

Almost 100 hours into the game, I'm somewhat glad they mark them, because it's very very easy to walk past shit because of the lighting and over all nature of being open world while also not being able to jump freely. There are cases where this stuff is ridiculous obviously.

@2Gambi2

3 ай бұрын

as there is no in world reason why some walls are climbable and others arent - except for the yellow ledges. it would literally be impossible to find the climbable ones without a marker like that

@zero-jm7ok

3 ай бұрын

Agreed. In FF7 Rebirth specifically, where the world design is so detailed it would be stupidly difficult to find these places if there weren't yellow markers.

@TheOneGreat

3 ай бұрын

​@@2Gambi2I can see the ledges, bro.

@UltraProchy

3 ай бұрын

I agree but yellow paint just looks like its supposed to be in some cheap asset rip. They already had ledges marked in a better way in ffx, over 20 years ago.

@JackoWillMakeLives-loveu

3 ай бұрын

@@zero-jm7ok”detailed” aka muddy textures and shit framerate ok bro

Gotta have some nerve to say this after Jedi Survivor and Dragon's Dogma II

It's also about a visual aspect. Either a player might not see well or play on a smaller or further away screen. Usually on PC only (or PC first) games you don't see as many "yellow paints" as you see in console games. Of couse a nice thing would be a menu option at the start where you can chose "highlight interactables or not". I would have hated Lies of P on my Steam Deck if it didn't have the flashy "loot here" spark. They even use it to trick my feeling of "easy mode" by leading me into a trap. That's good!

Asmond is one of the reasons games need indicators like this.

Mirror's edge is the one game that makes it okay since it's about speed, you don't have time to take in the environment while parkouring

@caffynated8046

3 ай бұрын

It's really not needed most of the time. You can quickly navigate most levels with only needing a few "blindly jump off the building here" red planks.

@Fxrrxt2x

3 ай бұрын

I like it in Mirror's Edge. You're seeing through Faith's eyes and obviously, she can see all the points of parkour very easily as a parkour master.