Friend’s father was KIA two Kms west of the village of Hurtgen on 10 Nov 44. A S/Sgt in the 12th Inf Regt of the 4th Inf Div, he died when the 12th Inf relieved the 28th ID’s 109th Inf and continued the attack to the north. The family was successful in having their father re-interred at Arlington Nat’l Cemetery three years ago, a significant and very emotional event.

@justinplaysguitar

5 ай бұрын

May he rest in piece my great uncle died there on Nov 21st 1944

This is an excellent presentation elucidating a campaign that is too often ignored. It’s also effing depressing. The shear magnitude of the futility is mind numbing.

My uncle, Paul H Tillman, served in this battle. He told Grandpa after he came home, that it was pure hell, and he hoped he would never have to experience anything like it again.

@WW2TV

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing Kathryn

a master history class on the battles for the Hurtgen Forest in 1944, learned so much today. Edwin Popken is Paul's guest today and is an engaging speaker. both Paul and Edwin have extraordinary knowledge about this history. Don't miss this show, or any of the shows created by Paul and WW2tv.

Absolutely raises the bar on any who entered that Green hell, German or American. My grandfather (father' s side) served in the 28th ID. He drank himself to death in 1957. It does raise as well, more respect for him to have survived the war, and his divisions short part of this "lost battle" of WW2. Thank you again, Woody & Edwin. Looking forward to the rest of this series.

@sixnoses

Жыл бұрын

My my partners father, S1 1st battalion 110th, responsible for placing replacements sure to die that day in the ranks, also drank himself to death at age 59.

I am a Royal Air Force Veteran. in the 1980's I used to go rock climbing near Schmidt Nideggen, We also hiked the area. The remnants of battle are there to see, old pill boxes and a memorial tower dedicated to those who suffered this conflict. The terrain is hellacious, Very hilly forest with outcrops of rock crags. In peace time the Eiffel is a beautiful area. In war it must have been Hell.

I got immersion foot in ranger school during the swamp phase in florida, it caused me to be recycled that phase and 2 weeks off my feet... it is incredibly painful, the skin on the soles of my feet sloughed off in my socks... and that was with proper foot care but we were in the everglades for 2 weeks solid no place to dry our feet or ourselves.. I cannot imagine what those poor grunts suffered.

Superb presentation by Mr Popken, and Kudos to WW2TV for shining an intense light on this tragic campaign. A friend told me his Dad served in the 110th Inf of the 28th ID and was captured by German forces in Sep 44. Spent the rest of the war as a POW which most likely saved his life, when one considers the mauling the ‘Bloody Bucket’ division would later endure.

First class presentation with incredible levels of information. Well made,and very insightful.

Thanks Woody and Edwin for a well researched look at the Hurtgen Forest campaign. It was not the finest hour of the U.S. Army or its leadership. My country's army went on to prove that it had still not learned much when one looks at the Korean and Vietnam conflicts. Still throwing good money after bad. Don't get me wrong because I am proud of having served, but I have seen the results of some of the decisions made by the West Point trained officer corps and they were not always wise or pretty-usually costing the lives of the poor grunts. This was a good and balanced critical look at the Hurtgen.

That was brilliant from Edwin, and the time just flew by. Thank god I wasn't fighting there then, the misery and futility of this action is bad enough as a sidebar warrior, but to have been there at the time must have been hell. Top notch episode yet again Woody @WW2TV

Oh, I forgot to say, some brilliant slides/photos came with this episode to back up Edwin's presentation.

Excellent presentation on the Hurtgen Forest with lots of information on the sheer misery of fighting there.

This was a great presentation. It would be equally interesting to see a presentation on Hurtgen from the German perspective.

I live in the area described as the Aachen gap and am a frequent visitor of the Eifel and Ardennes. I think Edwin is spot on with his idea that the Aachen-Geilenkirchen approach would seem more suitable as a jumping off point compared to Aachen-Stolberg. The contrast is massive. Imagine a flat stretchted out area (Geilenkirchen) VS the hilly and woody Aachen / Stolberg area. Sufficient terrain knowledge would have positioned the US forces for a blitzkrieg movement into the Rhine. More over, US forces of the 30th infantry (old hickory) reached the border area in front of Geilenkirchen around 10-15 th of September. But they decided to halt for preparations to make the northern pincer movement due south enveloping Aachen, instead of thrusting more East and making a larger movement towards the rhine at Cologne.

My father was in Company A 630th TD Battalion, attached to the 28th Infantry Division. They relieved the men who were holding Vossenack, and held it for a couple of weeks before they were relieved. Being a towed TD battalion, they were ill equipped for the action, but did their duty. During one of the German bombardments of Vossenack, his gun crew lost their halftrack, and their 3" gun was badly damaged, but repairable. Once relieved, they moved back to the Malmedy area, and my father had to go to a field hospital to be treated for dehydration. He was there when the Wacht am Rhein offensive began. The field hospital was evacuated just ahead of the Germans. It took him a while to get back with his badly mauled outfit. Not long after that, his gun commander was killed, and he was promoted to GC and they also received their M36 self-propelled TDs, with which they finished out the war.

I met Lieutenant Colonel Carl Peterson of the 112th Infantry Regiment of the 28th Infantry division, when I was a boy and he lived in Miami, Fla. He and my father knew each other having lived in the same small town in Pennsylvania.

My father was 1st Lt. the 5th Armored Division 46th AIB in Huertgen. Co, clerk was killed and my dad took over recording KIA, etc records for the HQ company. He rarely talked about it. Said he was in Fox Hole, and Major Day walked by in a daze and asked my dad if he had seen his glasses. My dad pointed him the way back to the rear. My dad Grew up near the White Mountains of New Hampshire and had excellent mountain woodland skills. He and his buddy, Bill, used to camp in the mountains, even in the winter. My dad was a firm believer in wool clothing. Fighting in that Forrest had to be horrible. Thanks for a great presentation.

@susandalton7889

3 ай бұрын

Thank you for the comment. My Dad was also with the 5th Armored Division as a technical sergeant. He never talked about that debacle, either.

Due to films like Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan the average American looks at WW2 in Europe like “there was D-Day then hedgerows. That Holland thing didn’t work quite right then we got caught off guard at the Bulge. Then Hitler killed himself.” So these discussions that teach the grit and mettle demonstrated by the Wehrmacht in 1944-45 are important. St Lo. Falaise. Schelt Estuary. Vosges Mountains. Arnhem. And Huertgen. I remember the first book I read about Falaise. The house-to-house-blow-a-hole-through-the-walls of the Canadians taking back that region one piece of brass at a time. It blew my mind. Or the stories of the 442nd and the Lost Battalion. Absolutely incredible. When mention was made of some of the top brass who served on Guadalcanal then in Huertgen (was it Cota?) I’d love to hear more about units and soldiers who were part of battles in both theaters. Can you imagine? Knowing combat at the River and fighting next to Marines on Guadalcanal then 15 months later you’re in Huertgen Forest? It’s amazing that anyone lived. It truly is. Last random thought: was there any USMC presence (as observers or advising) in the Fall Campaign battles in the ETO? I understand the Corps was exclusively used in the Pacific in WW2 but it’s hard to imagine they wouldn’t want somebody there for lessons learned (if nothing else) ??

This was an absolutely amazing presentation. Edwin answered a whole load of questions I had about SHAEF before Hurtgen. Coming out of the Pursuit, thinking about what the situation was on 1 Sept 44 and how quickly it came to a halt all along the Broad Front and you have to take into account all unit actions. I didn't know the 28 ID had already been mauled in Luxenberg prior to being fed into the Hurtgen, then the Bulge. JFC! Paul have you done a show about the US replacement system, the Repo Depots? Logistics, weather noncombat causalities, crappy equipment Edwin has done a superb job of covering everything. IMHO this has been a Graduate level seminar. Edwin would be fantastic guide, excellent maps and graphs and individual soldiers stories. Thank you Edwin, Paul

This battle has fascinated me since I saw the move, When Trumpets Fade, back in 1999. Ive read everything I could on it since then, including writing a 30 page thesis on it for my capstone history course. I found out that my two great uncles fought there. Both were wounded and never spoke of it. It was a muddy hell.

My father sergeant Robert Chappell , squad leader Company F, 2nd Battalion, 13th Infantry Regiment, 8th Infantry Division experienced all the horrors of that Forest, he was grateful to have endured those Battles and come out alive, many of fellow soldiers did not survive Chester Chappell - Western NC

World class. Thank you from America brother.

The "Ball Buster" mine was also called a "Bouncing Betty" because it would 'pop-up' waist high and explode, thus causing serious wounds in the groin area. They were also meant to wound more than one man at a time. They were a very vicious piece of work!

@WW2TV

11 ай бұрын

They were indeed

Allies seemed to regularly come up short due to a lack of imagination in terrain or conditions, such as bocage, forests, tall crops prior to harvest.

that is some rough ground.. a defenders paradise... wonderful presentation.

This is superbly entertaining to say at least! Can we have him again maybe for Aachen? I guess having Model as a German commander didn't really help US cause.

Wonderful show!

The concrete bunkers were partially overgrown after not being in use after 1940 which made them perfectly camouflaged in autumn 1944. That picture of the halftrack plowing through mud reminds me of German vehicles in Russia during the mud periods. I assume at least some German veterans were familiar with these conditions from Russia - mud, wet, cold and the lack of proper clothing - whereas the Americans were not. About the lack of detailed maps: it would be intersting to know how well the Germans were equipped with useful maps considering they usually lacked everything at this point of the war. I don't get the point that the defenders knew the terrain; they were not the same guys who built the bunkers nor were they stationed there long enough to get that familarity ? It seems to me the Americans already had enough problems without considering terrain knowledge. Edit: Needless to say this was another outstanding presentation, but anyway: it was another outstanding presentation. 😁

Excellent Presentation from Edwin. Many of the pictures remind me of the forest in Northwestern Maine near the Allagash River dense woods mixed with pine and deciduous trees of maple, oak, ash and thick scrub undergrowth. That area is hilly as well and if you stray off the path it is easy to lose your sense of direction without a compass. That makes it all more unnerving to consider if you were trying to fight while it is raining and any area could be mined or boobytrapped or have a strongpoint that is well camouflaged. Edwin is right they could of isolated that forest and went around it. So it makes even less sense of why we persisted going through it only in the end to never really clear it at such a high cost. Thank you Woody for your continued efforts to bring these to us.

Thanks! My late father Walter L. Olenschlager was a private first class in army company K, 331 infantry, 83rd Division during the war. My father was wounded in Gey on Dec. 13, 1944. My father was never in combat again and spent the next several months in various hospitals before ultimately being returned to the states. Over the years, I have tried to find out more about this area of Gey, Germany and the fighting that took place there. I managed to find an “After Action Report 331st Infantry Regiment, December 1944” that mentions Gey, Germany but there are only a few lines. This program has added to my overall knowledge of the fighting in the Hurtgen Forest. I remember my mother sharing with me how my father would suffer nightmares after his return home. Like most World War II veterans. My father did not talk much about his war experience until much later in life. Thank you so much for this program. It certainly gives much insight and understanding about the suffering that occurred.

@WW2TV

Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for your contribution and sharing your father's story

My great uncle Elza o camp died 21nov 1944 in this area. I just learned that a month ago. I’m also a combat vet Afghanistan and was shot 9 times In 2007

US Army had not gone through a full winter in WW1, when some personnel kit issues may have become more of an issue, and led to more research.

Had Edwin as the historian on a Battle of the Bulge tour back in December 2019. He did a great job and he is fun to have a beer with.

Thank Mate

Wow, what a presentation. This was as good a throat-grabber about the misery in the Hurtgen Forest as I’ve seen. I learned a lot. Well done, Edwin and Woody. I randomly first met Edwin at a hotel bar in Vossenack back in June 2019. It was my first time guiding in that area. Anyway, fascinated by Hurtgen Forest week on WW2TV.

The German units must also have been largely reconstituted after Normandy and Eastern Front by this stage of the war.

An incredible presentation by Edwin. His information and knowledge of the battlefield are top-notch. Edwin does present a disturbing indictment on how the US Army treated its troops in Northwest Europe. There is little excuse for poor gear and poor leadership.

Wonderful presentation by Edwin highly detailed and excellent slides. Many thanks for bringing the battle to life. The non-battle injuries shocked me

Excellent presentation from Edwin. Thank you Woody for all you do bringing WW2 awareness to us all woldwide.

Top notch show! Loved it Woody.

First hand knowledge of the Hurtgen from my partners father, Captain (at the time) Wesley J. Rose, S1 1st battalion 110th infantry regiment. Too horrible for me to imagine being there. He was responsible for putting replacement after replacement into the battle, with little hope they would survive the day. The Hubris of the higher ups...My God.

@WW2TV

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing Barry

@sixnoses

Жыл бұрын

@@WW2TV And thank you for these documentaries.

@patrickwatrin5093

7 ай бұрын

My grandfather was in k company 110 regiment 28 id. Told me one time that he would still be in hossingen defending if he had ammunition. Said it was all over once they ran out of ammo. 35:38

@sixnoses

7 ай бұрын

@@patrickwatrin5093 Yes indeed and glad he survived the bulge. Captain Rose was in Clerveaux 110th HQ

The 28th division is mentioned when they talk about greenies attacking veteran, fortified positions at Normandy. McNair used them as an example of what was wrong with with guards troops while stateside--bring in Bradley

Catching up on shows I missed, this was an outstanding presentation…well done..learned a lot about this battle. Last year I was able to check out Hill 400 (unfortunately not any other parts of the Forrest). Absolutely terrible ground to fight on.

A really great documentary!

Very good show indeed...great and informative guest!

@WW2TV

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Very well-informed presentation, presented in a very understandable manner for what to me is a rather confused battle/campaign. As usual, excellent program, thank you (still playing catch-up on my show viewing/listening).

@WW2TV

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Lewis

Watching this a year late, but a great presentation! I didn't know much about the Hurtgen Forest prior to watching. There is a pretty good movie that I think HBO made that takes place in the Hurtgen. "When Trumpets Fade". It's pretty good.

Another excellent presentation from WW2TV. Thanks Edwin and Paul. Doubt I'm alone in thinking the proposed video on how the different forces dealt with trenchfoot would be most interesting. Not a "sexy" topic but a very important one given it's devastating effects. Cheers!

OUTSTANDING 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼Enthusiastic new sub.

@WW2TV

Жыл бұрын

Thanks

Growing up my father had a pair of those boots.

@jimplummer4879

Жыл бұрын

He was to young for WWII, But was in the Navy in the Korean War.

When you see the geography the allies were fighting in and who was leading the defenders, then it’s no surprise it ended the way it did. Worst crime committed by the allies in that battle was sending in M-10 tank destroyers and using them as tanks. It was common for returning M-10s to have only the driver still alive.

Another superb presentation. Two into the series and I'm already furious at the contempt for the front-line soldiers senior staff displayed. Hopefully that QM who rejected the uniforms had a grotty life afterwards. I had trench foot as a young man and it never really goes away I feel so sad for those who suffered such avoidable injuries, one of my Great-Uncles was a gunner in Italy then NWE and was one of two in the division to get trenchfoot. He had an excuse as he'd been shot and couldn't move. He got back to his unit three weeks before the end in Europe.

Another great show! Not sure if I have missed it,but have you ever had anyone on who can explain Australia s seemingly disappeared from the Pacific War during 1944-1945 ? I know they invaded Borneo in June of 45 but didn’t participate in the Philippine campaign.thanks for the shows

Also after seeing the terrain, I can say that this terrain looks like the terrain where I live.

Grandpa was in the 4th infantry division 8th regiment antitank company. He started at Utah beach.

Setting my calendar for these lives. Even the audience comments are top notch. I feel like a WW2 buff who’s been fighting on his own in the deepest jungles of Mindanao, Philippines for 80 years and this channel brought me in 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

I think the loss of the American Mulberry Harbour caused all the problems they had for themselves

After some thought I think 'battle' might be the correct word for describing Hurtgen. The second world war: The European theater. The African theater. The Eastern theater. The Indochina theater. The Pacific theater. A campaign: fighting to achieve a strategic goal. A battle: fighting to achieve a tactical goal with the intention of supporting a strategic goal. An action: fighting that takes place within a battle in support of a battle. Is this just a terrible way to think of the subject? Or is it something else? Merry Christmas to you and yours. Thank you for all your work.

You know, this talk of supply early in has got me thinking about rations. Has anyone talked on the rations during the war? I mean specifically on rations and how the troops received them? As well as development, the K ration and 10-in-1 rations come to mind along with some changes to C rations

Paul is running a great WW II channel. Let's help him get more followers. Paul needs a fair bit of revenue just to pay for his expenses. Frankly he needs more viewers, let's everyone at least bring him one new follower! He works hard at this,

@WW2TV

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this initiative

@Canadian_Skeptical

Жыл бұрын

@@WW2TV thanks Paul. I am Andrew J from Canada.

The Hurtgen Forest campaign was worse in terms of losses compared to Market Garden. Yet Montgomery was so highly criticised for that operation. We know less about American bad operations because that's how the Generals wanted it. More US soldiers were taken prisoner than Airborne troops in Market Garden but The Battle of the Bulge was a great victory against the German push. Cobra got stuck because of the hedgerows, Hurtgen is was the fault of the trees. Not my fault! It was nature.

Omar Bradley was a fine soldier and great American, but Hurtgen was his big misstep in WW2.

@WW2TV

Жыл бұрын

But it was Hodges really, Bradley didn't have much direct involvement

Ronald Red Daniel's was here with Sgt Pierson and Capt. Turner

The American loss never discussed! We had an very bad time there, no general officers to c Visit that front, we kept throwing good men into the meat grinder, with negative results!

The interpretation of air photo recon pictures during the first and second world wars seems to have been left to interpreters and disseminated information left to operations? This led me to wonder what role the pilots of air recon played in helping to explain what they had seen as it pertains to terrain, positions, roads, etc. To the various groups one might think would be concerned? My apologies for the lot of questions, but the Hurtgen has always fascinated me from every level of decision involved in its execution.

Less well trained sounds like key to all this. If you were well trained and on the front lines you would have had two jobs fight and help the replacement troops fight effectively. Are they also now in the part of Europe where Germans would be less likely to surrender because they are defending their territory?

Damm meatgrinder

yep bradley and hodges should have been court marshalled over this-gives rise to the lie that one spearhead of pattons could have penetrated germany in 1944

there is no excuse , thcould have learnt from the trenches from ww1,whale fat was used and trench foot was an offense , officers would inspect there troops every day !

Totally unnecessary. A waste of young men.