Hi I'm an aging Kiwi, who builds the occasional instrument for myself, family or friends. I've never sold an instrument. I'm an experimenter. I recently built a round hole, mandolin and a mandola using Matai. A NZ native, quite hard, softwood for their soundboards. In particular, the mandola has a wonderful ring to it. The mandolin, sounds good as well. Also several years ago, I built a run of several Appalacian Dulcimers, as gifts to friends. My wife decided that one of them was going to be kept for her. I've recently realised that I used the wood from some pallets, for the soundboard. It seems to be a very good sounding instrument.

So pleased you made this video, yes very thought provoking! Thanks to you Iam looking at woods in a different way. I have a very old guitar that was almost to embarasing to show, let alone play. It is now my every day go to guitar (after some work) and I love it!

This is really fascinating, Kevin. Thank you.

This is the first guitar top video of this depth I've seen on KZread. I'm just 3 guitars into building. Your channel is extremely useful and insightful. Thank you.

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

Wow, thanks! I'll try to some more really good ones.

i really enjoy your videos as an aspiring luthier thank u

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

My pleasure!

Fantastic video. You have the best luthier voice since the Mark Erlewine “Trigger” repair videos. Great video - love that you ditched the background music which allows your voice to be the real star. One other thing, I have owned/seen some fantastic pre-war Martin’s. The tops would absolutely be graded as inferior by today’s standards. Keep up the great work.

I like that you use non-traditional, locally available, and repurposed woods! Thanks for sharing!

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. It is appreciated.

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

i haven't really put thought into acoustics luthiery until discovering your channel (i do have experience with solidbodies though), but your observations make a lot of sense and are very welcome (i'm also a pragmatic, physicist by trade, and i noticed a lot of woo in solidbody building as well - tonewoods, finishes, pickup wire, capacitors etc). i recently noticed my old cheap acoustic's spruce top starting to develop some brown streaks, and thought it was a lot more attractive as such. so now that you put things into perspective, i really do find weird how opposing are the esthetic standards, for natural wood, in solidbodies vs acoustics. interesting grain is such a big deal in semitransparent finishes for the former. so if looks don't matter acoustically, you've definitely sold me on these "alternative" materials. i've subscribed, all the best.

@thepragmaticluthier

8 ай бұрын

Aesthetics mean a great deal to me and that is one of the primary reasons that I select the materials as I do.

I just love that you think outside the box There’s not many luthier videos I’ve seen where there using alternates Loved seeing the walnut top and the pine and fir I bought a Alvarez guitar that was a slim dreadnought with walnut top back and sides which is nice It’s one wood I’d like to experiment in my journey try it with maple or rosewood treat it like a soundboard Only thing I need is more money lol

Great video Kevin, and a much needed perspective on tonewoods. Very wasteful to grade soundboards on 'perfect' aesthetics alone, without regard to stiffness and musical tap tones. You've inspired me to split out some billets of hemlock and white pine this spring, something I never would have even considered. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on alternative woods for backs, sides, fretboards, bridges, bracing, etc....

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your positive response. I know you'll enjoy trying some Pine and Hemlock tops. I'd love to see some pictures of the raw materials and the guitars. Maybe a video of splitting out and billeting the tops?

Hello, Mr. LaDue. I’ve been enjoying your videos over the past few days, and I am so glad to see someone in the guitar KZread community who isn’t marketing-hype oriented. I am always looking for more information on building guitars, although I am only a player. I would love to play some of those instruments you’ve built...where are you located? Do you sell your guitars, or keep them for yourself? It would be great to showcase one of your guitars on my channel. Anyway, thanks for all the honest information, I wish all luthiers were as open and honest as you are. Peace. 🐰💙🎸🎶🤝✌️

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comments and interest. I have guitars in most of the lower 48 states and two in The UK. Learn more: contact? www.ladueguitars.com

@JackTheRabbitMusic

Жыл бұрын

@@thepragmaticluthier Thank you, sir.

I have salvaged pieces of 4 inch thick old growth redwood from late 1800s Gedney pickle company's pickle vats that my son has made into a few guitars. Once you get rid of the wax and coopered curves, the remaining wood has been amazing....

Inspired, thanks👍

Very interesting. I know that I've seen American Sycamore used as a top, and I've seen walnut, too. It's interesting to go away from the official "tone" woods, but also interesting to try different things. Aesthetics are important and certainly for those who are selling to high dollar customers. But there's a lot to finding those woods and looks and playing that isn't just the normal standards. I really enjoy what you're making, and I'm encouraged by it to try different things and woods as I start building as a hobby.

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your encouraging comment. There are some KZread videos of guitars with Sycamore and other unusual tops. People are making some really great guitars with tops other than the traditional materials.

That is a beautiful collection.

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. I have thirty five guitars in my collection and dozens more across the country and in Scotland.

I Love that Fragmented Rosette ! Very Unique !

@thepragmaticluthier

8 ай бұрын

Thank you. I have made 147 guitars to date and no two rosettes are alike. It has become a criteria of my work. I hope I canalize up to that because my goal is at least 300 guitars.

The best top I ever made was from a old chunk of western red cedar split rail fence post that I found in the bushes on the side of the road. There was a 2 foot piece on the end of the post that had been buried in the ground. It was unbelievably straight and tight, 55-60 rings per inch with fantastic coloration. I hand split and built a four piece book match top that sounds like the gates of heaven opened wide lol

@thepragmaticluthier

7 ай бұрын

And you have a guitar with a great story behind it. I love that stuff.

Thats awesome, ive made 2 guitars with douglas fir and 1 of them is the most interesting things ive ever built. It was at the beginning of my journey si i didnt know how to compensate en it ended up sounding almost like it was playing ober and old timey speaker. Very loud and clear projection with a banjo like tone. Not for everyone but man does it blow other guitars away in jamsessions

I agree with trying other species to make tops with. I’ve tried a few hardwoods too, it’s great to experiment

@thepragmaticluthier

6 ай бұрын

I applaud you work. There are more people out there than I thought using hardwood tops. It's terrific! You can make a truly unique guitar with a different tone quality, made to your own taste and specifications. Keep building!

I would agree with your primary point. I mostly re-top badly damaged guitars. The very first guitar I did, to keep the cost down and see how viable the effort was, I used what my supplier labeled as AA. It was perfectly quartered with tight annular rings. It was the less than perfect appearance that dropped it from master grade. The end result exceeded my expectations and honestly I like the sporadic mineral streaks. I will occasionally move up to AAA but it will generally have more to with the defects, though fewer, they are well book matched. The ‘lower’ grades are really a best buy in my opinion. Decades ago no luthier would gave ever let sap wood in their backs and sides but now it’s a trend. It likely started as the occasional necessity and caught on from there. I’ve used reclaimed redwood and it is a more than worthy tone wood, it’s far from ‘perfect’ but is absolutely stunning when French polished. It’s refreshing to hear some sensible talk about instrument materials since many of the opinions these days are a bit fanatical.

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

Interesting remarks. I met C.F. Martin III in 1971. He told me that there was nothing wrong with Bearclaw Spruce, but they wouldn't use it didn't look right. THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

@hampshirepiano6383

8 ай бұрын

Yea'h what has changed ? Well-----here's one thing. The best fussy choises are not available anymore to make thousands and thousands eventually millions of machine made guitars. LOL. It is depleted like everything else is or soon to be.

Nice looking instruments .

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. I've been doing this for thirty years and have guitars in most states in the union as well as 35 of my own.

i am glad to see you've used pine. hmmm, i bet juniper is hard wood. probably hard to find any and of cours it would be twisted. which would make it look good. anyway, as an amatuer builder of electric guitars, (i don't have the nerve yet to try an acoustic) i use solid pine bodys with assorted tops, mesquite, acacia willow, silky oak. stuff that grows locally here in the desert. i'm finishing a neck through 'pinecaster' all pine. fretboard included. this neck is like a rock. i also use oak. so far for tops, necks, fretboards. i made a neck through bass with a white oak neck that started as a 4x4 laying in the sun for 30 years. super strong and hard. so my real point and question is: why are acoustics never made with oak?

Yes, chestnut is hard and light. Excellent for case parts.

Just subscribed, thanks for your channel. Bob Taylor recently decided to use patterned ebony for fretboards and bridge plates, but I wonder whether the industry would ever be brave enough to use less uniform woods for their tops? I guess the big builders are victims of their own success. If every felled spruce or cedar tree was a "guitar tree" instead of only using 1 out of a 100, that's got to be a win for everyone?

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

I like your phrase, "big builders are victims of their own success" and I believe that the buying public fans that flame. Manufacturers maintain their characteristic sound grading their materials by strict criteria and making their processes as consistent as possible. The end result is a wonderful guitar like Martin or Taylor, but if you think about that, it means that they're trapped in their system and can't build outside their criteria because it may cause them to lose control of their characteristic sound and appearance. Martin once made three Dreadnaughts from Cherry, Red Oak and Walnut. Nobody cared because they didn't look like Martins. People are irrational.

totally agree....take a chance....after 600 guitars made im still trying any species and my main guitar is a sinker top Huon 00 size and its H braced ...sounds incredible! wish you could try it! ...im a lefty too!

@BobStCyr

Жыл бұрын

Do you sleep? Robert Ruck, one of the most prolific guitar builders of all time made about 700 guitars at the time of his death?

@octoBadger

9 ай бұрын

hmm... I have some Huon pine I was considering as a top. Might bring it higher in the pile

@wilsonguitars156

9 ай бұрын

Before using huon I acetone the faces to remove oil...I bit like rosewood...I have sinker old growth and I still have to remove the oil!

@octoBadger

9 ай бұрын

@@wilsonguitars156 good tip, thanks!

Love this vid! I have a bunch of quartersawn Eastern white Pine, and I was wondering about what species you use for the bracing....I would guess spruce. I was Just tapping some WP the other day and I was amazed!

@thepragmaticluthier

4 ай бұрын

Yes, I do use Spruce for all of my top bracing, but it might be interesting to find out what White Pine sounds like. Since I made this video, I bought a pretty massive Pine log and had it quartered and dried. It really is w worthwhile tone wood .

I agree the typical grading of tops does not necessarily indicate the ability of that top to sound good. However, the grade A or master grade tops from any reputable top supplier (and I don't mean amazon or other sources, I mean the people who have been harvesting and supplying tops for at least decades and in most cases hundreds of years) will sound good. Given the cost and effort of all the other materials that go into building a guitar is it really worth saving $150 (that's roughly the difference between a master grade top and a C or D grade top. Antonio Torres showed that the top is the most important factor in the sound of the guitar. In building a guitar there is hundreds of dollars in the back, sides, neck, fingerboard, tuners etc. You will spend more dollars on glue, sandpaper, finish tools etc. Then there's the time you put in. Why would you not give yourself the best top for the project. If you wanted the best meal would you go to a market where you could get the best local fresh ingredients from knowledgeable producers or would you go to the discount grocery chain looking for bargain ingredients? I don't disagree with you that a less that stellar looking top can still be a great sounding top, given all the other dollars that go into an instrument the top is not where I'm going to look if I were trying to reduce costs - it's the last place.

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

All valid statements. And I recognize that this is the worldly side of guitar making and the guitar buying public. I find it interesting, however, that when you pay as much $500.00 to $2000.00 for sunken, buried, salvaged, ancient Spruce , Redwood and Cedar and top dollar for Adirondack, it seems to be an assumption that those tops will be highly musical regardless of what they look like. And it should be recognized, that those tops have an aesthetic value as much as any other. From the maker's side, the bling gets a higher proportion of dollars per instrument. From the buyers' side, it allows one to push their suspenders out even further. My perspective and my message is that all of the above is talk about money and that doesn't correlate easily with sound. The more important message is that any and all physically suitable tops can possess very high musical value and if so, they should be part of the musical and aesthetic equation of an instrument. I DO NOT advocate that anyone should turn away from the highest grades of instrument tops and I DO hold a certain amount of resentment for the notion that using lower grade tops is an effort to save a few dollars. That's what manufacturers do, not craftsmen. On the worldly side again, however, what portion of the guitar buyers will justify paying $6000.00 to $45,000.00 for a guitar?

Darn, you never run out of common sense. Need to send a little to some to the other luthiers. I can't find any there .... as always .... great videos ... oh I just found you today.

I have some old redwood salvaged from my neighbor's garage door that I might use to try a guitar. I also have some sassafras boards that I could mill down and try. I thought maybe I was just being weird trying "non standard" materials but from this video I see I'm just being curious. :)

@thepragmaticluthier

8 ай бұрын

I'm glad that this video has aroused your curiosity. Redwood is a known quality tone wood. And I'll bet that Sassafras will make a really nice back & rim. Enjoy building that guitar.

The silking is a sign that the grain is on the quarter (90 degrees), which will make it stiffer to the strings.

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

One of many variable in an equation.

I’m enjoying your channel very much, but perhaps haven’t been following long enough to know the answer to this question: what are the differences between sawn tops and split tops? Thanks!

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

Sawn tops are sliced from quarter sawn boards or planks. Sometimes, grain runout, grain running at a shallow angle across the thickness of the board, is a concern. Split tops are split from short log sections, almost like splitting firewood. This is done so that the natural grain direction is more closely followed on the split surface. The split billets is then flattened on one surface and slices for tops are sawn from that surface on a large bandsaw.

I love your guitars. myself, I prefer to see interesting wood figure, grain and colors over boring vanilla straight grain. A guitar doesn't need to look like it came from Ikea. So long as the wood "has song in it' as you say, you can have both tonal quality and eye-catching character. It's those little "flaws" that make an instrument unique. More than the sound. All of the sound qualities will generally fall into the same fairly narrow, expected and aimed-for parameters. Just my opinion.

Thank you for this video! You have got it right about the hype in tone woods and appearances. It was good to see and hear it said. I have been building since 1980 and have come to the same conclusions about woods. Some of my best guitars have sassafras back and sides. It seems to produce a great result on every build even though the density and janka hardness is closer to spruce than any accepted back and side materials. here is a link if you would like to have a look/listen. kzread.info/dash/bejne/np-IzrGbl8moZJc.html butternut seems to always be excellent too.

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

I'm glad you liked this video. I will be doing one soon, on back and rim materials.

Very interesting. I recently watch interviews of a few guitar luthier who were very picky for pristine (save for bear claw) high grade top and almost spruce only.. It's possible that's what their client ask for.. I'm a guitar player and lefty. It's cool to see as much lefty guitars in the same room. Did you build all these guitars for own use ?

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

I did build all of the guitars you saw for my own purposes and many, many more right handed ones, now all over the country. I think you're right about customers expecting perfect Spruce tops and builders specifying them. That, in part is why I made this video. It's an interesting conundrum. If you're paying 15K for a guitar, why not get the best? If you're selling guitars for that kind of money, use the best. My contention is; both buyer and maker need to rethink this, but that's a hard pull when money and bragging rights enter the picture.

Speaking of low grade wood, always wondered why solid lindenwood couldn't be used as a top since it's at least as hard as sitka.

@thepragmaticluthier

11 күн бұрын

Linden, the botanical genus name for basswood is pretty much acoustically dead. It is frequently used or interior lines in guitar bodies because it does not wick kinetic energy from the top to the rims nearly as efficiently as other tome woods. I'm certain that a guitar top of Basswood would yield an instrument of low volume, sonority and rather vapid character.

@yomommaahotoo264

11 күн бұрын

@@thepragmaticluthier Thank you for that. Was just thinking back to an old all laminate lindenwood acoustic guitar I had decades ago that at the time I thought sounded ok. Thinking that basswood is harder than spruce, yet was never used for a solid soundboard.

I'm looking at that white pine-topped guitar, around 31:50-ish, and going "Oh, yeah." I was going to ask if you'd ever used any kind of pine for a guitar top.

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

I have done three guitars with Pine tops and as a result of the success of the one included in this video, I purchased, just two days ago, a huge White Pine log to be quarter sawn very soon.

You and your woods are very interesting! These tops,,,,,are they air dried? or rapid cured??? you know---kilns, vacuum, torrified etc. Just curious. No matter how old. I have to pay attention as to how much moisture is in the material big trouble if I don't. Especially here in Western Mass.

@thepragmaticluthier

8 ай бұрын

My tops are dried by a mixture of methods depending on source. They are ALL acclimated in my shop for long periods before use.

Your sound hole seems larger than most. Have you found that projection is more important to your sound than bass response? Or do you find the larger sound hole more aesthetically pleasing?

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

Ah, the deception of video. My sound hole diameters differ from one body size to another, never more than 4".

I see the same thing happening with ebony. Since Taylor moved into the realm of ebony harvesting They have been using variegated ebony which is just as hard as all black ebony but is not wasting the tree to get a small quantity of all black ebony.

@thepragmaticluthier

6 ай бұрын

Taylor has invested heavily in land in Africa and is actively cultivating Ebony for future use. I understand that they have done the same thing in Hawaii, cultivating Koa. I admire their responsible attitude and applaud their effort.

Great looking guitars! Are they all left-hand or is the video mirrored?

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

Yes, all of my own guitars are left handed. There in another 100+ right handed ones all over the country. www.ladueguitars.com

🤩

Great principle behind not being so fussy about the aesthetics- well done. However…… to help the “watchability” / “ listenability” of these videos, please let’s hear the guitars throughout the videos. Otherwise one’s patience gets tested somewhat. Thank you.

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

I'll be working on some sound samples. If you review the video, you will note that I named every species of each top I showed. From your comment above, "not being so fussy about the aesthetics", INCORRECT. I am extremely fussy about aesthetics. My point is, that one can and should take advantage of the aesthetic qualities of those tops.

....at the end .......was that the beginning......of Frozen Man...?

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

Indeed it was

There is nothing to suggest a priori one could know that perfectly straight even blemish free wood will produce a better sounding instrument. That is just our human predilection to assign other virtues to what we consider to be aesthetically pleasing. I’m not a luthier, so maybe evidence has shown that, but I’m getting the feeling from this video that there’s not much there. One thing that I do know and that most would agree to, is that when you are try to sell a top end ($$$) product it better look damn near perfect.

@thepragmaticluthier

3 сағат бұрын

I'm not sure I understand exactly what your message is, but respect to money spent, it's a convoluted logic and system when you pay big money for that perfect top in one guitar, but obscene dollars for tops that have under water, under ground, or some structure for who knows how long. But none of that is about music; it's ALL about money and putting one's thumbs behind one's suspenders and pushing way out. The more you pay, the farther you can push. Suppliers find ways to market for higher dollars. Builders find ways to maximize their returns and the buyers enjoy the bragging rights that come with affording the whole thing.

Yes, too bad folks listen with eyes, rather then ears!

Why are there so many unsold instruments?

@thepragmaticluthier

Жыл бұрын

ALL of the instrument you saw in the video are personal collection (35 in total) and are NOT for sale. There are over 100 others all over the country and I'm currently booked for the next nine months.

@yellowcat1310

Жыл бұрын

that's why they are all left hand

I am not remotely interested in cosmetics. The sound is paramount for me.

@thepragmaticluthier

9 ай бұрын

Your comment is validating, but you would be surprised at how many people think a D45 automatically sound better than a D18.

If you need the ultimate piece of evidence for his point, go look up million-dollar vintage Italian cellos or any other of the violin family - Guarneri, Amati, Stradivari etc - they all have spruce tops that look like hell. Needless to say they sound divine.

@thepragmaticluthier

6 ай бұрын

And all of that wear and tear has made them even more beautiful to look at.