I've been using the window screen ground for eight months now in a wide variety of locations. Your measurements align pretty well with what I'm finding. In your video you made an important point that ground conductivity does play a part in receiving a good match. I find that I receive lower SWRs in poor soil conditions than I do in soil with good conductivity. Living in Wisconsin most of our ground is poor due to the granite and basalt bedrocks underneath the soil. But as I move closer to the Great Lakes region, conductivity improves and getting a good match becomes a bit more challenging. So here's the interesting part of what I've found. SWR may increase, but often due to the result of impedance dropping. Poor conductivity make give you a better SWR but could also affect your antenna system's impedance. Soil with good conductivity may the lowering the impedance of the system, resulting in an elevated SWR, but getting you closer to resonance. Watch your resonance (X) on the analyzer and you may find it moving closer to zero, even though your SWR is elevated. That's because impedance is dropping down to 30-35 ohms which is typical for a resonant 1/4 wave radiator. With this knowledge, I've run as high as 2:1 and have had no problem making contacts and getting and giving excellent signal reports.

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing this information with us. I love your videos. 73, Jim, KQ8E

Nice work Jim, learned a bunch here. Looking forward to seeing your coil design video.

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for your nice comment.

Excellent summary Jim, well done! I always ELEVATE my tuned radials for portable ops when I use a quarterwave monopole antenna. I'm not a fan of any counterpoise on the ground (including the current fad of using window screens and faraday cloths) because ground coupling also absorbs RF radiation. In many scenarios, you can actually lose half your potential radiated power to the ground even though the SWR may look close to perfect. I apologize if u mentioned this in ur video (I may have missed it). But essential to this analysis is not SWR, but the calculations of radiated power. The perfect quarterwave monopole has a radiation resistance of 36.5 ohm (not 50 ohms). So the SWR of an ideal quarterwave and 50 ohm feedline (with minimal ground losses) has an SWR of around 1.35 ... ironically, I target this non-perfect SWR for all my portable elevated radial antennas. I have A-B tested many variations of vertical antennas using WSPR results and the elevated radials antennas ALWAYS win in terms of radiated power. 73 KJ6ER

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for making this point, and thanks for your nice comment. 73

@off-trailseeking3965

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for jumping in here Greg!

My wife and I are both Amateur Radio operators and operate portable in State and Federal campgrounds. We have tried the same experiments as you and agree 100% We now use a 40 foot Spider Beam fiberglass mast with a full quarter wave wire Vertical on 40 though 10 meters, plus a single elevated tuned 1/4 wave counterpoise (typically between 1 and 6 feet). This takes a little extra effort but the results are fabulous. Thank you so much for sharing with us. Confirms our work 😀

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing your techniques with us, and thanks for your donation.

Excellent work Jim. Very interesting and very useful. Thanks very much !

@Jimscoolstuff

10 күн бұрын

Thanks for your nice comment.

SUPER video!! As an engineer, I really appreciated the data plots which always provide so much more information than verbal descriptions of testing results. I am now subscribed.

@Jimscoolstuff

18 күн бұрын

Thanks for your nice comment and your subscription.

Whats a fella to use? The radio operator's question of all time 😂 This did help me better understand the different types ways to use a mobile vertical, I live in Japan and cant get too spread out while in a park or on a trail. Thank you

@Jimscoolstuff

3 ай бұрын

Thank you for your comment.

I just subscribed. This is precisely the kind of informative video that drives the hobby forward. Thank you.

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for subscribing and thanks for your nice comment, 73

Thank you for all the work and effort that you put it to make this video. I'm having very good success both with achieving low swr readings, and with actual performance, using a Wolf River Coil with the Sporty 40 coil, and setting the tripod directly on a doubled over Faraday fabric mat. I've protected some of the fraying edges with blue painter's tape, and I reinforced the four corners with duct tape, and punched holes thru the corners for small stakes to keep the fabric from moving. For me the key is setting the tripod ON the fabric as opposed to next to it and then needing connecting jumpers. I've experimented with a variety of radial wires and have not seen any improvement in swr or performance. I've tuned the 213" whip on 40, 20, 15, and 10, with great success. I hope this helps. Bob N2BOC

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for your kind words and thanks for sharing your results.

Outstanding, I live in Florida, I have seen videos on Faraday cloth which I have purchased, Easier than running radials when portable.

@Jimscoolstuff

13 күн бұрын

Thanks for your comment. I am currently working on a video about some unexpected SWR results while using faraday fabric. I hope to publish it in about a week.

@EddieVfgi

12 күн бұрын

@@Jimscoolstuff Great, thanks Jim, looking foward to your results. Eddie kj4fgi

Thank you. for the testing and result data. For my LowFER Xmit vertical antenna I built a 60 lead, raised counterpoise at 5 to 8 feet off the ground. It had a diameter of 50 feet. I pretty much blanketed 1/3 of the USA every day with my 1 Watt input and approximately 7 mW ERP signal in what was essentially groundwave. My friend, who spent long hours for 2 weeks burying about the same ground area of chicken-wire as my counterpoise covered had a slightly weaker signal than mine at an equidistant point from our antennas out about 100 miles from both. I suspect that whatever he gained by burying all that chicken wire was lost due to dissipation in the ground, whereas my antenna had more circulating current flow and higher Q due to using a raised counterpoise. While I'm sure there is a substantial difference between an efficient near-quarter-wave antenna and an extremely short, high Q, but highly inefficient antenna with major circulating currents, ever since then I have used raised, tuned radials even for portable setups.

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. 73

Jim, Thanks for all of your hard work. I learned a lot. I am headed to my QTH in Florida for the winter and I will put this information to good use. I use a ground rod much like what you use. I have been using ham sticks. I am going to purchase the 32' whip. I am sure this will work much better. I am running a QRP Labs QMX which is a great little QRP xcvr. Thanks again for all you have done. 73's Mike WA8UOC

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for your nice comment. 73 Jim KQ8E

Great video ,Jim . I'm looking forward to seeing a video on your homemade coil . 73's

Learned a lot from this first video that I've watched here on your channel, and as a new subscriber I'm sure I'll learn much more!! Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge and research!!

@Jimscoolstuff

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for your nice comment.

Great presentation! I have a few comments based on my experience as a Ham for 60 plus years and as an Electronics Engineer for over 30. Your results are right in line with my thinking and test results! I am glad you also recognized and used the term capacitive coupling! I wish I had made such good detailed notes as you. On the quarter wave radials on the ground, I find that what is a quarter wave radial in the air becomes much longer than a quarter wave when it approaches and ultimately is directly on the ground. So the velocity factor should be measured on the ground and the radials cut to suit for any test attempting to use true quarter wave radials on the ground. Not an easy task but can be done. In practice quarter wave radials on the ground may as well be any random length as you pointed out! Also too many hams shoot for the 1:1 SWR with a quarter wave vertical when the ideal impedance of the vertical is not 50 ohms, so a 1.2 to 1.5 SWR may actually be the ultimate goal. I got a 17 foot whip recently and cold weather drove me inside so no data on it yet! I have done a lot of work and writing on Beverages on the Ground which takes advantage of the low velocity factor of a wire on the ground. Looking forward to more of your videos on this subject. I have made a couple crude U-Tube videos on the subject myself. I also do a lot with the simple dipole. 73, de N4DJ

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this subject. I look forward to watching your videos. 73

@dandypoint

7 ай бұрын

These links should take you to two of my videos and from there you should be able to get to my Antenna or Ham Radio playlist: kzread.info/dash/bejne/dKuVtbOTqqXUiKQ.htmlsi=EXvAS8EO_uLZb4eo kzread.info/dash/bejne/Z4t4uJSeaL3AqLw.htmlsi=eovMewM4Map0ylFI

A lot of work there. Thanks for trying so many options. Good information.

@Jimscoolstuff

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for your nice comment.

This video represents a lot of work, and careful planning. Thank you. I have put together a go-kit with 2 screens, 6 radials (21 ft), a screwdriver antenna (on a mag mount), and an end-fed halfwave. I live at the edge of the Balcones Escarpment, which is a few inches of soil and a mile of limestone. We'll see what comes of it. 🦉

@Jimscoolstuff

3 ай бұрын

Thanks for your nice comment and good luck with your antennas.

Thank You for the great information. Now I know what to try over our poor conductive ground.

@Jimscoolstuff

2 ай бұрын

Good luck and thanks for your comment.

Great video, lot of good comparisons and information.

@Jimscoolstuff

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for your nice comment.

Very informative. Looking forward to your video about your DIY coil

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for your comment.

Jim, another great video. I am learning so much from you - thanks. I anxiously await your coil design video! de John VA3KOT

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for your nice comment.

Hey jim,thanks so much for all your hard work.iam starting portable ops next week so this has helped so much.new subscriber 73

@Jimscoolstuff

Ай бұрын

Thanks for your nice comment, and I hope you have fun working portable. 73

Hi Jim. Thanks for this video. I use 5metre long counterpoes. Just speaker wire. Also use a low cost lighting tripod. Homemade coils. Vertical telescopic that I slide up and down for swr. QRP Operation on 20m Band 5watts USB and get stations 800miles away. Cheers from old George in the UK

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing this with us, and thank you for your comment. 73, Jim, KQ8E

Thanks for the excellent video. With a 17' whip on a 12" stainless steel stake and six 1/4-wave radials laying on the ground, I was able to achieve close to 1.2:1 on the frozen, poorly-conductive ground of upstate NY and had very good performance on the 20m band.

@Jimscoolstuff

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing this information. Did you try using fewer radials? I have gotten good results with just two 1/4 wave radials. I did not have a physical ground connection as you did with the 12 inch stake.

@desmobob900sssp

4 ай бұрын

I haven't tried fewer radials with that antenna but I do have another one that uses a shorter telescopic whip with a loading coil and it seems to work best with just one counterpoise wire laid in the ground. When I tried adding more radials, the SWR went up. @@Jimscoolstuff

@Jimscoolstuff

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for that information.@@desmobob900sssp

Jim, Stumbled on your channel, then had to binge watch all the ham radio videos, thanks for the excellent content and for sharing your knowledge and insights. Just as an FYI, i use chicken wire fence, much cheaper than the window screen. I just use clip leads to connect to the chicken wire. Look forward to your coil video. 73 de k1jbd, bammi

@Jimscoolstuff

Ай бұрын

Thank you for your kind comment. Thanks for the chicken wire idea; I am definitely going to try that. 73, Jim, KQ8E

Very informative, thanks.

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for your comment.

Great video sir, I do alot of POTA my results between actual wire radials and the screen or faraday cloth have been very minute differences here in central Indiana. I personally use the faraday cloth...( aprox 3' by 7') because the faraday cloth folds up to about a 5"x 8" , and is so much easier to deal with and transport.... no tangling wires or multiple wire spools to deal with. I can usually set my entire station up in a park in less than 6 minutes. Thanks again for all your work , the ionfo was very informative and useful. NS9T 73 sir.

@Jimscoolstuff

Ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing your results and thanks for your comment.

That was a lot of work that you have put on those measurements ! Wow! I have no experience with antennas but I would go with a full length horizontal dipole. i) no ground is required. ii) some directional gain is always welcome. iii) the full length is realizable without a coil. Yes I understand that this requires two or three poles instead of a just one, but if the result is superior it could be worth the effort? So far I have not been arrested by the park rangers for using the trees, (I won't damage them!) but I need to work on those poles... Perhaps they don't need to be too tall? May be the spikes in the ground, for holding the guy wires will not horrify the park rangers as much as the wires on the trees?

@Jimscoolstuff

11 күн бұрын

Thanks for your comment. Here is a link to a video that shows one way to support a mast without guy wires. kzread.info/dash/bejne/q4GNsKqTYtm8fdI.htmlsi=pYdiHiqtU4eY2ylW I built a link dipole that I set up as an inverted V. I use a central mast and two fishing poles for the ends.

Thanks for the video. I live in Oregon which looks to be solid red. Once i get my radials trimmed and clamped up..i will report back

@Jimscoolstuff

25 күн бұрын

Thanks for your comment. Good luck with the radials. Let us know how it goes.

good info tnks!

Your quarry looks like my QTH, Leakey, Tx in the Texas hill country. To put a spike in the ground, I use a Dewalt hammer drill with a 1/2" masonry bit.

@Jimscoolstuff

26 күн бұрын

Thanks for your comment.

That was fantastic! I did my first SOTA the other day. My antenna was 25 feet of wire sloping to a t-1 tuner and a screen for counter poise. It was a success with my 3 watt rig! Funny thing is it tuned quickly on 40 meters and not so well on 17 meters. I rolled the screen in half. That helped some. At least I now know some of the science behind this. Next time I will use the screen and the MFJ-1899t which I think uses a copper wire coil with taps. Easier to get resonant. Probably make one of my crude videos on that. BTW, I did use that MFJ on my first POTA and a tape measure for a ground on 17 meters. Worked great! Crude videos on both. Very dry to watch hihi. De n5vwn

@gliderrider

7 ай бұрын

PS. The pota and sota videos are on my Rumble channel.which is under the same pen name. Gliderrider

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing your experience with all of us. I will check out your videos. They can't be any cruder than mine. 73, Jim, KQ8E

Nice video! Also looking forward to seeing that coil design. 73 DE PP2PB

@Jimscoolstuff

4 ай бұрын

Thank you for your comment. 73

Thanks!

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thank you very much for your generous donation. I will start a fund to buy a real camera. Perhaps I can then produce higher quality videos. Thanks

This was both interesting and useful. Thank-you and 73 G0ACE

@Jimscoolstuff

3 ай бұрын

Thank you for such a nice comment. 73, Jim, KQ8E

Can one raise the window screen/faraday cloth 2 or 3 feet off the ground? I wonder what the results would be? And how could one "tune" a raised window screen?? Excellent video using relevant measurements.

Jim great information, just got a coil and a 17 ft whip. Your coil looks like a better coil. Can you share how to make one. I enjoy making my antennas. I tried slinkies, long wires, end feds, still looking for the one I like 73s AA2BD ps. I'm using a G90 20 watt radio.

Thanks for sharing your experaince and finding in this video. Do you have a video on your homemade coil. Can you share your design of your coil. Regards

@Jimscoolstuff

Ай бұрын

I will make a video about how the coil works soon. A patent has been applied for and is now pending. The coil is now being made by a company called Amratek Products. amratekproducts.com

Still waiting to see your 40-meter and 80-meter vertical coil design, I would like to build them !

I swear by a pair of elevated 1/4 wave radials for anything 20m and above. It isn't too hard to get them off the ground either. I use a 6ft camera tripod and a piece of 3/4" conduit to mount the whip. I clip the radials directly to the shield side of the coax and run them down to a couple of 4ft fiberglass driveway marker stakes. It also works very well for 40m, but I tend to use the "magic carpet" more often because let's face it, 32 ft radials take up a ton of space. I suspect 4 16ft radials elevated would get the job done in a more space friendly manner but I haven't gotten around to actually testing it. Yet.

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

If you have the space, nothing beats 2 or 3, 1/4 wavelength elevated radials. The half of the radial near the center can lay on the ground as long as the half towards the end can be elevated at least 6 inches. Thanks for your ideas. 73

@KC3UVF

7 ай бұрын

@@Jimscoolstuff Yes, though I find a 45ish degree angle helps swr.

Good video, but I would have rather seen all the test using the same band... Whether it be 20M or 40M, as they tend to be the more popular used bands for portable/POTA. The other factor is that I've always used the rule of thumb of having *perferably* 2λ worth of radials on the ground for the lowest band used, but at least a single λ worth. Even at 40m, that would be at least 4 33ft radials, not 3 (regardless of what WRC sells in their kits).... A better comparison for the radials would have been 4 40M tuned radials (performing double duty as long radials), the tuned radials elevated, and finally quartered for the short, tested on both 40M and 20M (with the tuned radials also being cut in half for 20M, ie tuned 20M radials).... This would provide a more apples to apples comparison between tuned, elevated, long, and short, as they would all be compared on the same bands at either a single λ on 40M and the preferred 2λ on 20M... Then compare those results to 40/20M using the faraday cloth 73

@Jimscoolstuff

3 ай бұрын

Thanks for your comment, and your ideas.

I am interested in your DIY coil that you found to be much more efficient than the stainless steel ones. I did not see a video about it on you list. Can you point me toward that info?

@Jimscoolstuff

4 ай бұрын

I have not made a video on my loading coil yet. I hope to get to it soon. I just have too many projects going on right now. Thanks for your interest.

Jim...have you finished with the optomized loop presentation ?

@Jimscoolstuff

5 ай бұрын

It is next on my list of projects, but I need to finish 2 videos that I am working on about spurious emissions caused by ferrite EFHW antenna matching devices. Thanks for asking.

✳✳✳✳✳ thanks, very interesting, cheers FOO was HERE - Stephen

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for your comment. 73

With all the discussions about radials, groundplanes, and counterposes, and the associated pain and frustration. I am surprised that there is very little discussion about the WRC Otophone mount. (kzread.info/dash/bejne/gWxh2LVska26hLg.html). I bought one a couple of years ago and I love it. It allows configuration of 2 antennas as "V", "L", "inverted V", or "dipole" with NO RADIALS. I use with 2 - WRC TIA, 2 - 17' Whips, or 2 Hamsticks on same band, I like the "V" configuration myself. QSOs from GA to Eastern Europe, Australia, and Japan. Big advantage - NO RADIALS. Big disadvantage. - COST ($$$) it requires 2 antennas plus mount and stand. Just my thoughts - AC4OW.

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. 73

HI Jim very informative. Is there any way I could purchase one of those 40 meter coils of yours. I have a 17 ft whip?

@Jimscoolstuff

7 күн бұрын

The coils are now being manufactured by a company called Amratek Products. They have a web site amratekproducts.com.

@briantrask8173

6 күн бұрын

@@Jimscoolstuff Hi Jim thanks for responding. I ordered the package that comes with the antenna , 30-40 meter coil, and the tripods. Is there a way I can mount it on a tripod? I watched one of your videos where you talked about losing half your power when ground mounted? Thanks Brian

@Jimscoolstuff

6 күн бұрын

@@briantrask8173 I have found that using about 10 square feet of Faraday fabric or window screen on the ground works great on 40M.

@briantrask8173

6 күн бұрын

@@Jimscoolstuff I will try that, thanks Jim

Very well done! I would like to see your homemade coil design! Thanks, 73 de K0EAO

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

I am making a video now on the design of my coils. I have one coil for 80M and a different coil that covers 40m and 30m. Most coils are not efficient because they try to cover too many bands with a single coil. 73

@tonypoloney8721

7 ай бұрын

Very helpful for my interest in learning antenna application. Thank you very much.

Please use a lapel mike so you don't sound so far away!

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

I apologize for the poor sound. I have a lapel mike and a wireless lapel mike, but my cell phone input jack does not work. I would like to get a decent camera, but KZread pays so little that i can't justify the investment. You can help by clicking on the heart and making a donation. 73

@Kinetic79

7 ай бұрын

@@Jimscoolstuffthe quality and thoughtfulness of the content way outweighs any minor quibbles like that. I’ve learned a few nuances that I wasn’t able to pick up elsewhere.

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for your nice comment and your donation.@@Kinetic79

@anonymous_friend

7 ай бұрын

he's fine bob, turn on closed captions and turn your volume up. 😂

Thanks!

@Jimscoolstuff

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for your donation. It will go to my video camera fund. 73 Jim KQ8E