It is notable that the DMG does have rules for creatures climbing onto enemies they're too small to grapple normally. While not as powerful, it's a nice thematic option if your halfling fight wants to go all Shadow of the Colossus on a dragon.

I really enjoy this "new" way of presenting the build : one 20-ish minute video to present the mechanic/concept that you will exploit then one 20-ish video presenting the build assuming people watched the previous one. This is really enjoyable. More accessible than a giant 40-50-minute video presenting it all. Great video by the way!

@youtubeseagull

2 жыл бұрын

YUP

@anthonynorman7545

2 жыл бұрын

I agree *emphatically!*

@theresnoracelikegnome

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah. It’s a good format. Some people might be only interested in the mechanical discussion, and others only in the build presentation. I agree it makes it more accessible. Though I’ll watch ‘em all, regardless.

@zeik101

2 жыл бұрын

Seconded

For the "Move / Carry" the Grappled creature, you could take the "Movement Halved" as a way to handle distances. For every Foot you BOTH Move, you (as a GROUP) Travel costs you 2 Feet of Movement. If you are Pivoting the creature around you (It moves 10 Feet, you move 0) that costs you 10 Feet of your Movement. Then, at a Maximum, you can EACH Move Half your Movement, but you can split it up in a Logical Fashion.

@TheAdditionalPylons

2 жыл бұрын

Was thinking the exact same thing

@kevinacecox

2 жыл бұрын

It reads drag or carry not move or carry.????

@lokithecat7225

2 жыл бұрын

@@kevinacecox Sure, the type of "Movement" you are doing is "Dragging" them, which isn't a condition, so it's just a cinematic description.

@tomraineofmagigor3499

2 жыл бұрын

@@lokithecat7225 to be fair the term "drag" is used in carrying capacity so you can only drag them if they're within your dragging carrying capacity

@lokithecat7225

2 жыл бұрын

@@tomraineofmagigor3499 And size limitations of Grapple.

There's an optional rule that pretty much covers holding on to a flying creature like you described at 12:05. It's under action options on page 271 of the DMG. "Climbing onto a Bigger Creature"

@tibot4228

2 жыл бұрын

Copy-pasting it for anyone interested: If one creature wants to jump onto another creature, it can do so by grappling. A Small or Medium creature has little chance of making a successful grapple against a Huge or Gargantuan creature, however, unless magic has granted the grappler supernatural might. As an alternative, a suitably large opponent can be treated as terrain for the purpose of jumping onto its back or clinging to a limb. After making any ability checks necessary to get into position and onto the larger creature, the smaller creature uses its action to make a Strength(Athletics) or Dexterity(Acrobatics) check contested by the target's Dexterity(Acrobatics) check. If it wins the contest, the smaller creature successfully moves into the target creature's space and clings to its body. While in the target's space, the smaller creature moves with the target and has advantage on attack rolls against it. The smaller creature can move around within the larger creature's space, treating the space as difficult terrain. The larger creature's ability to attack the smaller creature depends on the smaller creature's location, and is left to your discretion. The larger creature can dislodge the smaller creature as an action--knocking it off, scraping it against a wall, or grabbing and throwing it--by making a Strength(Athletics) check contested by the smaller creature's Strength(Athletics) or Dexterity(Acrobatics) check. The smaller creature chooses which ability to use.

@johnsmith-fy8jo

Жыл бұрын

@@tibot4228 thank you

The most fun I ever had playing a melee was with a Strength Barbarian/Rogue build with a single Shortsword. Grapple most enemies, climb the bigger ones. Crazy mobility and the same damage as a typical single class Rogue.

@Ruthac

2 жыл бұрын

Been playing this for the past few months (mountain dwarf, Barb 5/Rogue 7, to start). Suuuuper fun. Also very tanky. Add in a Potion of Growth, and even adult dragons are rendered nigh helpless if you can grab 'em before they fly away.

@Shalakor

2 жыл бұрын

I've been playing a straight Battle Master Fighter so I could pick up more feats and be more tactical. Tavern Brawler, Unarmed Fighting Style, Skill Expert for Athletics expertise, Grappler feat pairs well for crit-fishing to use with maneuvers (especially since I was the only melee in the party for like 10 character levels worth of playtime, so even with the optional flanking rules not a lot of advantage opportunities due to prone-ing enemies being bad teamwork most of the time), at higher levels Mobile and Lucky. Has the Gladiator background and roleplayed like a magicless Bard, kind of a circus strongman type. Often uses improvised weapons for killing blows to show off, and/or throws melee only weapons even when not strictly necessary just because he can.

It strikes me that telekinesis, despite being limited to 1/turn, has pretty much the same benefits as this strategy and is considered a pretty good 5th level spell. People are sleeping on grappling/dragging.

@lokithecat7225

2 жыл бұрын

Bigby's Hand is another work around, if you are planning on grinding something into a Wall of XXX. Str 26 (+8) can Grapple Huge, advantage if the Target is Medium or Smaller, acts on a Bonus Action, 60' Move (Drag 30), and can Crush (2d6+8) if you already have something Grabbed. The "Grapple to break Flight" effect on a flying creature is easier (it's not restricted to the ground) and underused.

@sidecharacter7165

2 жыл бұрын

Grapple and prone makes them have Disadvantage on all attacks while yours have Advantage(if not at range). Had a level 5 Barbarian beat a Young Green Dragon with that. Grappling really helps against creatures that are better off moving and using guerilla tactics like dragons or vampires. Dragons can recharge breathe and stay out of melee range and vampires have a regen ability.

I really love the format! Getting the perspective info first and getting to ruminate on it for a bit before the example build comes out really helps understanding the build in such a way that you can use the principals in it to accomplish what makes sense for your campaign!

I had a moon druid who, at 6th level, developed a go-to damage strategy: cast Spike Growth, become a huge polar bear, then grapple and drag them in a circle around the AoE for 16d4 piercing. If they’re still grappled next round, dash to make it 32d4 piercing. If they’re small or smaller, change the polar bear’s 40’ speed for the Allosaurus’s 60’ move speed (24d4 and 48d4 by round).

@youtubeseagull

2 жыл бұрын

that's kewl but if you have halved movement by the rules that's only 4 squares and 8d4 dmg, not 16 and so on. You missed a step of rules i think. I suppose you could dash... potentially... hm.... i still really like this plan tho. I might be able to copy you on it.

@Trafoder

2 жыл бұрын

@@youtubeseagull Huge Polar Bear is huge and can drag a medium or smaller at full speed. An Allosaurus is Large, and can drag a small or smaller at full speed. I mention this, but I should’ve been clearer.

I like your method of explaining a mechanic or a problem in one videos and then presenting a build that uses that mechanic or fixes that problem in the next video. Very helpful for knowing what’s next. Love the content, keep it up.

I'm so happy you made these public for everyone. I have been using these grappling strategies for years and occassionally get arguments on their interpretation and use. This will help with a ton of rules interpretations and help people understand the utility of grappling. Thanks.

On a separate note, trying many of your variant classes, races, and rules tonight. Working out very well so far for all concerned on both sides of the table. Thanks for all your hard work, Chris

Lizardfolk can make for really good grapplers, because even with both hands full, they can still attack with their bite. And if they're a Rune Knight Fighter, hillarity is pretty much bound to ensue, as they can grow to the size of a T-rex and straight-up _eat_ even large creatures whole!

@looting3305

7 ай бұрын

I know this is a year later, but doesnt that only work if they have the tavern brawler feat? I'm playing a bard-barian lizardfolk and I was under the assumption that Bites won't work unless tavern brawler is a feat I'm running

@RokuroCarisu

7 ай бұрын

@looting3305 Tavern Brawler allows you to grapple as part of an attack. But you don't need it to grapple something with your hands and then bite it, because grappling requires at least one hand, but biting is done with your mouth.

@looting3305

7 ай бұрын

@@RokuroCarisu oh I'm just an idiot I read your original comment as "even with both hands full they can grapple with their bite" my bad man

Im in love with this video. I've been making grappler builds since I started playing because im a grappler IRL so seeing it get some much-needed shine is really nice.

I imagine Treantmonk's build will use some workaround to either have strength on a monk, or maybe use astral self to grapple with wisdom. But I'd like to remind DMs that you can (if you want) allow your monks grapple with DEX. There is a variant rule in the PHB of using different ability scores for skill checks where appropriate, examples given include: * Endurance swimming/running can be constitution (athletics) * A half-orc intimidating someone can be strength (intimidation) * Tying a knot correctly can be intelligence (sleight of hand) Granted, the monk grappling with DEX is not one of the three examples given, and this is technically listed as a variant rule in the PHB (so similar to feats and multiclassing). Not every DM will allow this. But as a DM if you want to be nice to your monk (and presumably you do if you watch this channel on the regular) just let them grapple with DEX. It's thematic, lots of martial arts have a heavy grappling component (Judo... Jiu Jitsu...). And I don't think it's a balance concern--your player would still need to invest in grappling if they actually wanted to be reliable at it (pick up expertise from somewhere, and I'm not actually sure if they can get advantage on DEX (althetics) checks since the usual methods for advantage like barbarian rage and rune knight only give advantage on strength checks specifically, and DEX (athletics) would not be a strength check).

@youtubeseagull

2 жыл бұрын

I've decided within the last year or so that i would believe, strongly suggest, that str. and dex should be interchangeable for making builds, using features, and climbing trees.

@SFXBirdGod

2 жыл бұрын

It's definitely going to be Astral Monk. Increased reach, WIS instead of STR for grapple checks, you need WIS for AC and Stunning Strike DC, the subclass is perfect for this build *as long as you have ki*

@aprinnyonbreak1290

2 жыл бұрын

I'm a weirdo and love that big, beefy warriors, sinister dark knights, and massive bone centipede bears are all comically bad at scaring people. But the functionally unarmed Halfling with the bagpipes simply exudes menace and killing intent by existing.

Always thought it was weird that monks never got a feature that let them use their dex modifier when making athletics checks

@bonzwah1

2 жыл бұрын

@@RokuroCarisu yeah but I will say that the base Monk class features actually do a pretty good job of capturing the flavor of a monk. The numbers might be unbalanced and the fact that a lot of features compete for the same resource is problematic, but the feel of the monk is actually pretty good. The only thing that's missing is that the monk can't really be athletic, and that's why I probably enjoy playing arms of astral self the most. I actually don't mind being underpowered as a player but I do mind not being able to pass athletic checks when I think of cool s*** to do and I'm trying to play Jackie f****** Chan.

@bonzwah1

2 жыл бұрын

@@RokuroCarisu holy shit, have you not been recovering ki points on short rests?

@bonzwah1

2 жыл бұрын

@@RokuroCarisu it's in the players handbook. I think you misread it years ago and never realized haha.

@philtess3126

Жыл бұрын

Now you can use way of the astral self to use your wisdom mod instead of your strength mod during ability checks! It's what you've been looking for

@bonzwah1

Жыл бұрын

@@philtess3126 it's ok. You need to spend ki to do it. It's a bit rough when skill checks are normally resourceless. But yeah. Astral arms is my favourite monk for this reason.

Really enjoyed the format of the video! Much Appreciated!

I'm playing a Warlock and during our last session our Barbarian couldn't make it so our DM gave me control of his character (only during combat). I hexed the enemy creature's STR with the intent of giving disadvantage on their grapple and since raging Barbarians get advantage on their strength checks this tipped the balanced in our favor. We made it out of there by the skin of our teeth.

@koalabro6118

2 ай бұрын

A creature that is being targeted by a grapple can choose between Athletics and Acrobatics for their skill check to avoid it, but even then hex is really good for forcing them to use their weaker skill or their stronger one at disadvantage. It makes the stronger skill mathematically 5 points weaker than it was, so oftentimes the creature will choose the weaker skill which is normally not 5 points weaker than their stronger, but that means that high rolls by the grappler can make it outright impossible for the grappled to avoid it. Still a goated combo and a reason why I genuinely think one of the strongest tier 1/tier 2 combos is Hexblood Moon Druid.

Glad this is finally getting covered. Pretty excited for the soul knife/mercy monk build. Lol.

Bro you always make a build that I want. Thanks man and keep up the awesome optimizing.

Thanks for covering these mechanics! This is a handy reference!

Armorer Artificer (infiltrator)/(+RK fighter dip) is perhaps the best grappler build out there. You get lots of options for increased speed, enlarge/reduce, flash of genius, armor of magical strength, etc. AND you get a weapon that doesn't require a hand to hold it, meaning you can hold a shield, cast spells, or grapple two enemies and still attack. Plus a better AC than the monk

@nothingtoreport1918

2 жыл бұрын

This sounds like a fun build to play! How many levels of each class do you take? What’s the general build?

@peterthompson760

2 жыл бұрын

@@nothingtoreport1918 Since they didn't provide an answer, I would try a Fairy 16 Armorer and 4 Rune Knight. A grappling Monk is an interesting concept; I would suggest a Fairy, 8 Swarmkeeper Ranger, 6 Rune Knight Fighter, and 6 Way of the Astral Self Monk build. Alternatively, a Dhampir, 8 Hunter Ranger, 6 Rune Knight Fighter, and 6 Way of the Kensei Monk build. Fairy = Free Enlarge/Reduce, Squat Nimbleness Feat access, and Flight. Swarmkeeper = Free Damage, Utility Movement (self/your opponent), Free Fighting Style, Favored Foe, and Expertise. Way of the Astral Monk = Movement, Flurry of Blows, Magical Unarmed Attacks, and Extra Arms (Arms of the Astral Self). Dhampir = 40 ft. Movement (Small size and the Squat Nimbleness Feat), Spider Climb, and Vampiric Bite. Hunter Ranger = Movement, Free Fighting Style, Expertise, and Extra damage to Vampiric Bite (Hunter's Prey - Colossus Slayer/Favored Foe). Way of the Kensei Monk = Movement, Kensei Weapons (for Vampiric Bite), Deft Strike (can be used on Vampiric Bite), Magical Unarmed Attacks, and Flurry of Blows. 1 Ranger, 6 Rune Knight, 6 Monk, 7 Ranger.

@nothingtoreport1918

Жыл бұрын

@@peterthompson760 Lots of options! I love Swarmkeeper’s favor even though I haven’t gotten to play one yet

@peterthompson760

Жыл бұрын

@@nothingtoreport1918 Thank you, I'm glad you like the build, I'm a big believer in character options (Swiss Army Knife concept). I'm sorry the other guy never told you his build, I was curious too.

@friskscipio

Жыл бұрын

it doesnt really sound like a good build

In before Chris uses the discussion of grappling to take another shot at... Oh. Taking a shot at Monks was the secret twist at the end of the video.

I've never been this early to one of your videos before but if I was gonna be early for any one I'm glad it was this; at long last, validation for my humanitarian Fighter who disarms foes and uses every other action option but Attack

@blitheringape5321

2 жыл бұрын

how do you deal with aboleths

@LeMayJoseph

2 жыл бұрын

@@blitheringape5321 Charles said humanitarian, not Abolethitarian.

@Insertein

2 жыл бұрын

@@blitheringape5321 Chat with them, get to know their situation, maybe help them or explain why you can't and/or reach a compromise; also, be careful not to fall in the water around them, it's gonna give your doctor a headache... A little bit of understanding goes a long way!

@ThreeOttersInATrenchcoat

2 жыл бұрын

"Here, let me render you powerless while my friends kick the sh*t out of you." 🤣

@Insertein

2 жыл бұрын

@@ThreeOttersInATrenchcoat "This is not what I was expecting when I heard "the power of friendship"!"

Yes!!! This is exactly something I wanted your take on :D

I really like that first image you showed in the intro, at first glance you are thinking "man that orc has the poor guy in a headlock" but then you look at what the guy is doing and its clear the orc is about to get german suplex'd through the floorboards.

I currently use a rune knight simic hybrid for the extra 2 grappling limbs. Granted theres little room for me to use the simic hybrid bonus action since rune knight has a TON of bonus action features. Those 2 extra arms though allow me to grapple at least 2 creatures and still wield weapons as normal. I've been my group's tank and simply being able to pull creatures away from my squishier teammates has been far more valuable than I ever thought it would be!

"Stop! You succeeded on a grapple build!" Party Warlock: [casts Hex to debuff strength checks on the target] "I got you, fam."

I know its not the topic of the video, but I just wanted to thank you for your sign off slogan. Where I live there was a recent explosion in the local gaming community because of some deeply bigoted shit coming to light from people central to the FLG scene. The whole thing has really highlighted how important it is to have actively inclusive messaging that everyone is welcome at the table. We cant just be passively accepting, we need to make it loudly clear that EVERYONE has a safe place and has a right to enjoy our hobby. So thank you, the sign off means a lot. Keep up the good work mate!

@samuelbroad11

2 жыл бұрын

we're gonna play some D&D and have some fun, cos D&D is for everyone!

What!!!!!! A monk build?? I was not expecting this kind of cliffhanger on a grappling video. We will be waiting...

@peterthompson760

2 жыл бұрын

It's an interesting concept; I would suggest a Fairy, 8 Swarmkeeper Ranger, 6 Rune Knight Fighter, and 6 Way of the Astral Self Monk build. Alternatively, a Dhampir, 8 Hunter Ranger, 6 Rune Knight Fighter, and 6 Way of the Kensei Monk build. Fairy = Free Enlarge/Reduce, Squat Nimbleness Feat access, and Flight. Swarmkeeper = Free Damage, Utility Movement (self/your opponent), Free Fighting Style, Favored Foe, and Expertise. Way of the Astral Monk = Movement, Flurry of Blows, Magical Unarmed Attacks, and Extra Arms (Arms of the Astral Self). Dhampir = 40 ft. Movement (Small size and the Squat Nimbleness Feat), Spider Climb, and Vampiric Bite. Hunter Ranger = Movement, Free Fighting Style, Expertise, and Extra damage to Vampiric Bite (Hunter's Prey - Colossus Slayer/Favored Foe). Way of the Kensei Monk = Movement, Kensei Weapons (for Vampiric Bite), Deft Strike (can be used on Vampiric Bite), Magical Unarmed Attacks, and Flurry of Blows.. 1 Ranger, 6 Rune Knight, 6 Monk, 7 Ranger.

One thing I didn't see addressed, that I have always been curious about: for creatures with the Powerful build (or equivalent) ability, which states: "You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift". Does that apply to dragging creatures? In other words, would a Firbolg grappling a Halfling have their speed reduced? Also, prediction: Way of astral self bugbear build?

@youtubeseagull

2 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing about a huge creature, moving another creature that is small, using Treant's ruling, does not seem to make sense that it would use double movement to flip a creature to the other side of it, potentially 5+ squares or so to the other side of that huge, gargantuan, creature. Then Treant said as well about "swinging around a pixie", DM ruling seems like common sense would save that exception and make it more dramatic by giving the bigger creature more and more slack rulings, the bigger it is. Certainly seems fair since big doesn't get enough credit. So yes, Treant implied that a much larger creature can flip the target to any adjacent square without costing any movement, or just 5 ft.

@jameswebb4545

2 жыл бұрын

I would say it works as it says you count as one size larger for the purposes of dragging, carrying, etc.

@Cynndora

2 жыл бұрын

It helps dragging them around yes. If your medium and you grapple a small creature, because its "2 sizes smaller than you" with powerful build making you count as large when dragging, you move at full speed.

@jameswebb4545

2 жыл бұрын

Bugbear is a good option for a monk given their surprise attack ability and a monks high DEX and number of attacks. However this build is designed as a grappler build so I’d be more inclined to think Loxodon as you can grapple two people and still be able to punch things and drag them around (or drag three people around).

@tomraineofmagigor3499

2 жыл бұрын

@@jameswebb4545 bugbear is for the reach and you can use wisdom for athletics checks with that subclass

You can also move without moving the creature you have grappled thus walking around them.

@Insertein

2 жыл бұрын

M e n a c i n g l y

@aprinnyonbreak1290

2 жыл бұрын

Chuck the Ruby Knight Windicator needs to make his triumphant return, just to optimize how fast you can SPEEN a grappled target.

I’m playing a Loxodon Rune Knight grappler in Wild Beyond the Witchlight, and I found a couple of Potions of Growth. It’s very fun.

Love me some grappling! One of my favorite characters was an Eldritch Knight grappler, good times. One important thing to keep in mind when building a grappler is what to do when you aren’t grappling. Often, grappling doesn’t work or isn’t effective - fighting a ghost, giant, or a swarm of weak enemies - and you need a backup plan. For my Eldritch Knight, I could switch between grapple/shove control, greatsword based damage, shield/Shield turtling, or Darkness/Blindsense combo play. Having all these options made it an awesome experience, and I never found myself bored in combat like happens with some martials. Excited to see the monk build!

@Insertein

2 жыл бұрын

Oooh, I have got to try that sometime! Thanks for the heads-up ~

Don't forget the new Unarmed Fighting Style allows you to make 1d8 attack rolls with your fists and also do 1d4 damage to a grappled creature. Couple this with Rune Knight to get Large Size with its Giant's Might feature.

@TinnWard

Жыл бұрын

Just made a character with this in mind, it's like most of us are sharing the same brain cells

@claymoresteel

Жыл бұрын

Up that even more by playing a grung

One of my favourite uses of grappling is the human shield, using an enemy as cover against archers. It gets some really cinematic moments, even if it’s a little bit of a niche situation.

Monk grappler is exactly what I've been considering for a while now, can't wait to see what ideas you've come up with

@peterthompson760

2 жыл бұрын

I guess I would try a Fairy, 8 Swarmkeeper Ranger, 6 Rune Knight Fighter, and 6 Way of the Astral Self Monk build. Alternative, I would consider a Dhampir, 8 Hunter Ranger, 6 Rune Knight Fighter, and 6 Way of the Kensei Monk build.

@nswmeeuwes89

2 жыл бұрын

@@peterthompson760 That kinda seems like it would take a long time to come online, no?

@peterthompson760

2 жыл бұрын

@@nswmeeuwes89 Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by "come online". At level 5 you can; be huge , have Expertise in Athletics, and all the other benefits of Giant's Might. That meets the Grapple criteria without Monk. After level 5 you can of course take levels as you see fit, in accordance with your play style and goals/priorities. I suggest the build order 1 Ranger, 6 Rune Knight, 6 Monk, 7 Ranger. Rune Knight = Free Fighting Style, Action Surge, Rune Carver, and Giant's Might. Fairy = Free Enlarge/Reduce, Squat Nimbleness Feat access, and Flight. Swarmkeeper = Free Damage, Utility Movement (self/your opponent), Free Fighting Style, Favored Foe, and Expertise. Way of the Astral Monk = Movement, Flurry of Blows, Magical Unarmed Attacks, and Extra Arms (Arms of the Astral Self). Dhampir = 40 ft. Movement (Small size and the Squat Nimbleness Feat), Spider Climb, and Vampiric Bite. Hunter Ranger = Movement, Free Fighting Style, Expertise, and Extra damage to Vampiric Bite (Hunter's Prey - Colossus Slayer/Favored Foe). Way of the Kensei Monk = Movement, Kensei Weapons (for Vampiric Bite), Deft Strike (can be used on Vampiric Bite), Magical Unarmed Attacks, and Flurry of Blows.

@nswmeeuwes89

2 жыл бұрын

@@peterthompson760 Huh, that should work quite well. I would prefer to be mote monk earlier though, cus we tend to play earlier levels. The fairy is fun idea, especially to lift people up in the air and drop 'em.

@peterthompson760

2 жыл бұрын

@@nswmeeuwes89 I'm glad you liked the builds, and hopefully you found something useful in your quest for your perfect Grapple Monk, and yes I chose Fairy over Duergar so you could drop and potentially fall on top of (remember you would be HUGE) your opponent. P.S. The Dhampir can grapple and walk up a wall/vertical surface and drop as well, not as reliable as flight, but the Dhampir build has different advantages; slightly better damage per round, Kensei Weapons (for Vampiric Bite), Deft Strike (can be used on Vampiric Bite), Extra damage to Vampiric Bite (Hunter's Prey - Colossus Slayer/Favored Foe) , and a totally different Vibe.

You did a good job on this video.

I'm so glad that Pathfinder has such clear and concise rules for all this stuff. I've never had arguments when playing Pathfinder the way I do when playing 5e.

- Before the game fell apart, I was working on building a grapple char. I went with a Simic-Hybrid Rune knight fighter. Extra arms and could crawl on walls, had that skilled feat to get the most out of my athletics and I was having a lot of fun with it. Still keeping that char in mind for a future game at some point. Went with a bounty hunter background and while he could be brutal and would kill monsters he specialized in grappling so that he could take as many as he could in alive.

Interesting concept; I guess I would try a Fairy, 8 Swarmkeeper Ranger, 6 Rune Knight Fighter, and 6 Way of the Astral Self Monk build. Alternative, I would consider a Dhampir, 8 Hunter Ranger, 6 Rune Knight Fighter, and 6 Way of the Kensei Monk build. Great video as always.

@comicserif

2 жыл бұрын

Issue with fairy is you can't grapple huge creatures until you get the RK levels

@peterthompson760

2 жыл бұрын

Lol, you sound like someone telling me eating a; chocolate bar, marshmallow, and graham cracker is the same as eating a smore. I know that time and prep will make a superior treat. I like the option of Flight, as well as the image of a Fairy leading a harem of Tinkerbells. If that's not your thing you can try the weaker option of Duergar.

here is a few ways to increase it: -skill expertise, str and atletics -either barbarian giant path or fighter rune knight (also the spell of enlarge reduce), consider moon druid or polymorph. -also, the unarmed fighting style allos you to use your hands to attack and to deal 1d4 of extra damage to graplled creatures

@peterthompson760

2 жыл бұрын

It's an interesting concept; I guess I would try a Fairy, 8 Swarmkeeper Ranger, 6 Rune Knight Fighter, and 6 Way of the Astral Self Monk build. Alternative, I would consider a Dhampir, 8 Hunter Ranger, 6 Rune Knight Fighter, and 6 Way of the Kensei Monk build.

@afasdfasafd314

2 жыл бұрын

@@peterthompson760 okay, but why some of those thou? i get the rune knight but on the others i have no clue

@peterthompson760

2 жыл бұрын

@@afasdfasafd314 Fairy = Free Enlarge/Reduce and Flight. Swarmkeeper = Free Damage, Utility Movement (self/your opponent), Free Fighting Style, Favored Foe, and Expertise. Way of the Astral Monk = Movement, Flurry of Blows, Magical Unarmed Attacks, and Extra Arms (Arms of the Astral Self). Dhampir = 40 ft. Movement (Small size and the Squat Nimbleness Feat), Spider Climb, and Vampiric Bite. Hunter Ranger = Movement, Free Fighting Style, Expertise, and Extra damage to Vampiric Bite (Hunter's Prey - Colossus Slayer/Favored Foe). Way of the Kensei Monk = Movement, Kensei Weapons (for Vampiric Bite), Deft Strike (can be used on Vampiric Bite), Magical Unarmed Attacks, and Flurry of Blows.

@afasdfasafd314

2 жыл бұрын

@@peterthompson760 ho! now i get it! thanks!

@peterthompson760

2 жыл бұрын

@@afasdfasafd314 Thank you, and your welcome. I can't wait to see what Chris come up with.

Name a more iconic duo than Treantmonk and Monks!

This video came at the right time, I just started playing a grapple barbarian,and I realized I have no idea how to play non-casters

This is perfect! Ive been building a winged tiefling barbarian who picks folks up and drops them, but the rules were hard to understand

In the grappling a dragon example, if you are flying on your own, I'd make you do a check to hold it up because dragons are heavy. If you get yourself thrown onto its back somehow and choose to grapple, it falls. If you are flying on your own, grapple the dragon, and your intent is to fall with it to the ground, I'm not charging you movement, I'd just let it happen. Because grabbing a full-Nelson on a dragon's wings and piledriving it into the ground is freaking epic! Hope you have enough rage/hp/half-orc endurance to cover it.

Couldn't a grappled creature try the shove attack to escape from the grapple, instead of using their entire action? This would allow a follow up attack, assuming multi-attack.

@ianc8266

2 жыл бұрын

By the letter of the rules, yes that seems to follow, but it seems against the spirit so I wouldn't allow it.

@mitchellchow7348

2 жыл бұрын

Yes but then they couldn’t use Acrobatics, only Athletics

Beast Barbarian Shield Master, if you select the Tail option when you rage: First attack: Attack > Grapple > Bonus Action Shove Prone (with advantage from Rage). Next Attacks are all with advantage. All attacks against you are with disadvantage. You can maintain the grapple with your free hand, and still attack with your tale. To end this the enemy must use it's action to contest your grapple.

@Insertein

2 жыл бұрын

Whoa, tail superiority Tail-less me bows humbly

@keggotht9323

2 жыл бұрын

I have a beast barbarian grappler too and I love using the tail to attack while I have 2 targets grappled. It's also fun to use climbing speed to drag them up walls and onto ceilings

@Sean-fo8kg

2 жыл бұрын

@@keggotht9323 Most people don’t realize just how versatile the beast Barbarian is. How many different ways you can play it and how much you can do with it :) I generally don’t find grappling alone very useful, unless it’s somebody fast who’s trying to get away from me. Like if you are going toe to toe with a melee enemy, it likely is going to stay put anyway.

This sounds awesome and I'm looking forward to it. As a prediction I'm wondering if he goes tabaxi monk. Specifically the wording on feline agility is that is that when you move on your turn it doubles speed and both the dash action and step of the wind say you can move your speed, which is currently doubles, so you can move quadruple your speed. Additionally feline agility only requires that you stand still before you use the feature again not that you have to stand still on your immediate next turn. Plus a 20 ft climb speed can be very useful situationally and you get natural weapon 1d4+STR unarmed attacks which isn't much but it helps monks more than most other classes.

The newest UA has a giant option for barbarian where when you rage you can grow large. That will be awesome for grapple builds. One of my favorite characters that I played in adventurers league was a goliath monk grappler. Started with a strength of 14 and started monk. Then I multiclssed into barbarian for 2 levels and rogue for 1 level, the rest went back into monk. My character is currently level 10. What really makes the build work though are my magic items. I have Bracers of Defense, boots of striding and springing, and a belt of giant strength. Boosting my strength really made the build work, since after I never worried about putting points into strength after. My usual turn was to rage, grapple, shove prone. On my next turn I would drag the character where I needed it and attack with advantage. My favorite instance was being hosted and doing this combo against a wizard who had a fire elemental summoned. Double my speed meant doubling my drag distance and the extra action for grapple, dash, or attack was great. I dragged the wizard to my party and they killed him breaking his concentration, which meant the elemental wasn't under its control anymore. Very effective when used properly and one of my favorite characters to play.

Love grappling. I currently play a Barbarian 5 Rogue 2 with the mobile feat so I have 50ft base movement, bonus action dash, athletics expertise and rage. Only need to find a way to become large or bigger now. Grapple - prone an enemy and put him in a nice position where our full rogue can go ham on them or drag them through spike growth when our ranger casts it. I love the teamwork possibilities from that. Also improves my tanking capabilities since I can usually keep at least one enemy away from my squishies.

@peterthompson760

2 жыл бұрын

6 levels in Rune Knight would give you; a Fighting Style, Action Surge, Giants Might - If you are smaller than Large, you become Large, along with anything you are wearing. If you lack the room to become Large, your size doesn’t change. You have advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws. Once on each of your turns, one of your attacks with a weapon or an unarmed strike can deal an extra 1d6 damage to a target on a hit. , Rune Carver, and 2 Ability Score Improvement Options.

looking forward to the legendary monk speed build, i do kinda love those

@peterthompson760

2 жыл бұрын

For speed, I would consider; a Small Dhampir with the Squat Nimbleness and Mobile Feats, 12 Way of the Drunken Master, and 8 Path of the Totem Warrior ( Elk at level 3 and your favorite at level 6). Alternate Race Centaur with Horseshoes of Speed.

If you dm rules grappling just by RAW, you can still rotate around the grappled creature. The way you can do it is by moving around the grappled creature without dragging it. Then, you can change your relative position to it. Finally, you just need to move back to your starting position while dragging the creature. Since the creature never leaves your reach, the grapple isn't ended

@bigdream_dreambig

2 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the exact same thing. Treantmonk's ruling uses less movement, though, which is a benefit.

I've got a grappler monk build in mind for my channel, I'm curious to see which subclass you go for but mine is: Var Human: Skilled Expertise Athletics Str 12 + 1 Dex 15 + 1 Con 15 + 1 Wis 13 Int 8 Cha 8 Lvl 1 Barbarian Lvl 2 onwards Monk Drunken Master Expertise+Advantage+1 strength is enough of a boost at low levels of play. Probably get crusher at lvl 5 for a 14 str and extra forced movement options. Drunken Master gives an extra +10 ft of speed when using flurry, but the big benefit is redirect attack at level 6 monk: Drag the creature until you're in range of a second, then take the dodge action. On a miss you can redirect their attack to automatically hit the enemy creature with what's likely to be a harder hit. It's also a pretty good tank build since you can combine rage with dodge action while grappling a creature to prevent it targeting a distant ally.

I think the top Grapple-drag build is a strength--based Duregar Scout/Rune Knight with the tavern brawler feat and unarmed fighting style. Scout with 3 levels gives you Athletics expertise, cunning action dash and the ability to drag the grappled guy as a reaction after his turn ends. Rune Knight gives you advantage and ability to grapple huge enemies (gargantuan with enlarge from Dueregar), tavern brawler gives you the ability to grapple with a bonus action after using action to unarmed attack and unarmed fighting makes that unarmed strike a 1d8 and gives you a small damage bonus to grappled enemies. If you have advantage you can also pull out a dagger or a rapier and stab a grappled guy for an extra 2d6 sneak once a turn. I think the extra movement from scout (both as a free bonus and as a reaction) will be more movement than monk will give you, especially since the scout does not need to use ki. For dragging off a cliff and dropping pick up Fey Touched - drag off and misty step back on to land and get Hex to give the grappled guy disadvantage to breaking it. Then get magic initiate to pick up feather fall for a second drag and drop. You can all three feats in and a 20 strength at 12th level (8 fighter/4 Rogue), if you don't care about grappling gargantuan creatures you can go custom instead of Dwarf and have it all in at level 10 (6 fighter/4 Rogue).

For moving grappling targets, my DM ruling would be: "You can, as part of your Move action, move a grappled creature, spending 5ft of your movement for every 5ft you want to move the grappled creature." With that, you can swing the kobold around, but you are costing your own movement for it. You also don't need to move yourself, just spend movement to do so.

I think the most fun I ever had in 5E was a one-shot my group did where I made a level 13 Aarakocra Open Hands monk that specialized in grappling. I was flying around, slamming monsters into walls and dropping them before pounding them further. I really want to remake that character, but I have too many other ideas to try.

I made a character just like the concept and its great! :D 3 lvl rune knight and 6 lvl mercy monk with the triton cause they can grapple potentially 3 creatures. Mercy monk gives them poisoned condition so they will never escape your grapple with disadv while you have adv and you can stabilize with healing hand if a party member goes down! Pretty fun and effective! :)

I'm playing a Loxodon Rune Knight. At 4th level, I got the Shield Master feat. Now on 5th level, and I can immediately start a round shoving with a bonus action (with shield), grappling with one of my attacks and also attacking once. It is awesome.

@youtubeseagull

2 жыл бұрын

sweet

@havasimark

2 жыл бұрын

RAW if a feature has a prerequisite (using your action to attack to allow the bonus shove) then they have to happen in order (prerequisite first). It's clarified in Sage advice compendium. That said, I houserule the shield master feat not to require the attack action anyway. (The reason most likely is to avoid impossible situations: if the last opponent is at the edge of a cliff, and you shove it off with your bonus action then there's nobody to attack with your attack action so it doesn't happen on your turn, but then the shove couldn't have happened)

@cloudsquall88

2 жыл бұрын

@@havasimark Wow I've never thought of this. I'd even forgotten the Attack Action prerequisite. Looks like I'll need to talk with my DM a bit. Thanks for this!

We also employ a similar "movement currency" for the purposes of establishing a drag position. My favorite moment in a recent game, was when my character Malorne was able to grapple & drag a Troll into the heat of a Wall of fire. The level of single target control is very satisfying. Dropping Silence on a magic user, grappling & shoving prone pretty much neutralizes that threat.

@pranakhan

2 жыл бұрын

Also Intrigued by the potential synergy between the Fighters Unarmed Fighting Style & the Crusher Feat, for moving a creature at the start of your turn before even using an Action.

Nice video. Always appreciate the rules insights. I have ruled the grapple movement the same way. It's just too bad we don't have better clarification from WotC. Don't forget the combo of the shield master feat....use the attack action and with one of your attacks successfully grapple the creature, take the rest of your attacks (if you have them) then use your shove prone from the feat after you have them grappled! Now they end up prone with the zero speed and you pinched their course of action to breaking the grapple. Aka their action wasted...cue the party beat down!

@coldfusion230

2 жыл бұрын

Are you gonna grapple first? If so then you're probably using unarmed attacks as you're outta hands. Or you can grapple last which might be risky if it fails...

@johnsharp8306

2 жыл бұрын

@cold fusion Depending if you have the extra attack feature, if you only attach once you must grapple first because the bonus action shove prone must occur after you take the attack action. There are many classes that don't normally deal the damage of the Paladin or Hexblade, so if you use you action to tie up the BBEG and give advantage to the Rogus/Warlock/Paladin so their attacks land more often, your going to win that fight.

The character I am currently playing is a level 5 Half-Elf Monk grappler, using Arms of Astral Self to get Wisdom as your ability modifier to otherwise Strength based checks. You also get additional arms to grapple several enemies simultaneously. At level 4 I took the Skill Expert feat for expertise in Athletics. I love the character, and its really effective thus far. Levels 6 to 8 will be fighter for Rune Knight, to get the Enlarge ability and Advantage on Strength checks.

In regards to thegrapple move thing, I've always seen it as when you grapple you enter the space of the opponent and then share the same space. As such if you want to move them around to a spot you have to move to that spot.

Another monk build? Let's goooooooo!

@jedwilson1233

2 жыл бұрын

Seriously though, played in a couple of games with a grappler monk and it was a blast. Especially when you hit lvl 9 and can wall run with a grappled creature for an auto-fall damage and make them prone.

@peterthompson760

2 жыл бұрын

It's an interesting concept; I would suggest a Fairy, 8 Swarmkeeper Ranger, 6 Rune Knight Fighter, and 6 Way of the Astral Self Monk build. Alternatively, a Dhampir, 8 Hunter Ranger, 6 Rune Knight Fighter, and 6 Way of the Kensei Monk build. Fairy = Free Enlarge/Reduce, Squat Nimbleness Feat access, and Flight. Swarmkeeper = Free Damage, Utility Movement (self/your opponent), Free Fighting Style, Favored Foe, and Expertise. Way of the Astral Monk = Movement, Flurry of Blows, Magical Unarmed Attacks, and Extra Arms (Arms of the Astral Self). Dhampir = 40 ft. Movement (Small size and the Squat Nimbleness Feat), Spider Climb, and Vampiric Bite. Hunter Ranger = Movement, Free Fighting Style, Expertise, and Extra damage to Vampiric Bite (Hunter's Prey - Colossus Slayer/Favored Foe). Way of the Kensei Monk = Movement, Kensei Weapons (for Vampiric Bite), Deft Strike (can be used on Vampiric Bite), Magical Unarmed Attacks, and Flurry of Blows. 1 Ranger, 6 Rune Knight, 6 Monk, 7 Ranger.

The battle master's menacing attack is super great for grappling. The frightened condition gives disadvantage on checks, so whether they resist your grapple w/ str or dex, it's all disadvantage for them. Adds damage and lasts until the end of your next turn too!

@Furao80

2 жыл бұрын

Plus the things most likely to out strength or out dex your grapple, are also usually more susceptible to wis saves.

Yeah! This is my jam. The best grappler is friends with a Druid that loves Longstrider and spiked growth.

nice video - i always wanted to play fine grappler

I was playing a dwarf monk 1/ unarmed battle master fighter 3. (Bonus feat at the beginning of the game tavern brawler) It was probably one of my most favorite characters to play.

I clicked on this video because I was trying to flesh out my next character idea Haha. But I'm starting to think you may have a similar build idea. First of all he was inspired by your dhampir and monk videos to begin with so thanks for that. My character (Kilik) is a monk(shadow)/ranger (gloom or swarm) multi-class. His race is a dhampir. He will have expertise in athletics due to his first level of ranger. Dhampir also gives him a bite that will further add to his ability checks. There are a lot of great synergy between monks, rangers and dhampirs. Like not taking fall damage when you drop on an enemy, dragging enemies up walls, Getting 100+ move speed with ki, spells or abilities, increased chance to hit with ki and empowered bite, automatic grapples on stunned enemies. Increasing bite damage with monk levels and huntersmark. etc...

@peterthompson760

2 жыл бұрын

It's an interesting concept; I would suggest a Fairy, 8 Swarmkeeper Ranger, 6 Rune Knight Fighter, and 6 Way of the Astral Self Monk build. Alternatively, a Dhampir, 8 Hunter Ranger, 6 Rune Knight Fighter, and 6 Way of the Kensei Monk build. Fairy = Free Enlarge/Reduce, Squat Nimbleness Feat access, and Flight. Swarmkeeper = Free Damage, Utility Movement (self/your opponent), Free Fighting Style, Favored Foe, and Expertise. Way of the Astral Monk = Movement, Flurry of Blows, Magical Unarmed Attacks, and Extra Arms (Arms of the Astral Self). Dhampir = 40 ft. Movement (Small size and the Squat Nimbleness Feat), Spider Climb, and Vampiric Bite. Hunter Ranger = Movement, Free Fighting Style, Expertise, and Extra damage to Vampiric Bite (Hunter's Prey - Colossus Slayer/Favored Foe). Way of the Kensei Monk = Movement, Kensei Weapons (for Vampiric Bite), Deft Strike (can be used on Vampiric Bite), Magical Unarmed Attacks, and Flurry of Blows. 1 Ranger, 6 Rune Knight, 6 Monk, 7 Ranger

@Legend-gu6yp

2 жыл бұрын

@@peterthompson760 Awesome I didnt know fairys got enlarge reduce. They could def make a great grapple class

@peterthompson760

2 жыл бұрын

@@Legend-gu6yp Yeah. people are overlooking it, they usually try to push Duergar. I chose Fairy over Duergar so you could drop and potentially fall on top of (remember you would be HUGE) your opponent. P.S. The Dhampir can grapple and walk up a wall/vertical surface and drop as well, not as reliable as flight, but the Dhampir build has different advantages; slightly better damage per round, Kensei Weapons (for Vampiric Bite), Deft Strike (can be used on Vampiric Bite), Extra damage to Vampiric Bite (Hunter's Prey - Colossus Slayer/Favored Foe), and a totally different Vibe.

@Legend-gu6yp

Жыл бұрын

@@peterthompson760 Yea I kinda pictured the character stalking and picking off enemies 1 by 1. Dragging them off into the darkness and stuff. Dropping on enemies from above. Terriorizing enemies seems pretty cool thematically

@peterthompson760

Жыл бұрын

@@Legend-gu6yp Exactly, while the Fairy build is Shock and Awe/Flashy, the Dhampir build is the Silent Assassin, you really see it.

This is veeeeery obscure but the idea of spending movement to move the grappled target while you yourself stays in place is technically supported by the rules. Otto's Irresistible Dance specifies that "A dancing creature must use all its movement to dance without leaving its space". Mind you this is a specific rule for this spell and not a general one but since they could have easily just said that the target's movement is now 0 instead it implies that you can indeed spend movement while never leaving your square. Therefore you could spend your movement and fulfill the "when you move" requirements while still staying in your square.

A way to make yourself even better at grappling is with a little known thing I found called the touch of death dark gift which causes anyone you grapple to take 1d8 necrotic each turn You can take the grappler feat, this dark gift and then skill expert with a monk barbarian multiclass to just prevent anyone from moving ever

also needs 3 things , BA dash cover this with Orc race from MoM , also have powerful build , so u can drag as one size larger, so no half movment penalty draging one size under , needs also concentrate on 2 spells Spike growth and Haste , so a raven familiar( can speak comand word or a warlock familiar that can talk, its needed to activate a Spellspellwrought tattoo or a ring of spellstoring . also can do a glyph of warding with one of the spells.

I am proud of myself for thinking of Monk while you were explaining this. Need to be unarmored for unarmored movement so you need good strength, dex, con and wis. But maybe if you only have like a 12 in strength and then get expertise in athletics you will be fine if you can also get advantage.

Quick build: Lineage: Bugbear-MPMM (WIS +1, DEX +2) Powerful Build: Count as 1 size larger for pushing/dragging Point buy: 14 for STR DEX CON, 16 WIS, 8 INT CHA +1 Rogue (1R): Expertise in Athletics +4 Monk (4M/1R): Astral Self, WIS for STR checks, +2 WIS (18) +1 Rogue (4M/2R): Ki-free bonus action dash +1 Monk (5M/2R): Extra attack is second grapple attempt +1Rogue (5M/3R): Soul Knife, add a d6 to failed ability check that you are proficient in +3 Fighter (3F/5M/3R): Rune Knight, get large and advantage on STR checks that you use WIS for

one of my main characters is indeed a goliath barbarian monk. it was a super awkward start as I decided to go str based to make grapple checks and keep my damage up with the barb bonus, but it was a amazing to play. the grapple + open hand making people prone combo made for an effectinve stun for a turn more reliable than the stunning blow (but could also be enhanced by a stunning blow in some situations). I still wanna make a warlock grappler to abuse hex targeting checks instead of saves.

Instead of dragging...along the ground... STR-based Monks can take advantage of grapple, Step of the Wind, and (the Jump spell or Boots of Springing and Striding) to do something even more nefarious: Dealing Fall Damage as attacks. Action: Attack Bonus Action: Ki Point, Step of the Wind (Dash), doubling jump height. Movement: Leap as high as you possibly can (minus 10 for run up or minus 5 if Athlete) Free Action: End the Grapple. Target falls, you fall. Target takes falling damage for hitting the ground. Movement: Fall on them (Tasha Alternate Rule, split fall damage between both targets) Reaction: Monk Slow Fall. So for every 20 feet you leap, you deal 3d6 damage to them. The higher your STR score, the higher you can leap (and if you have Jump or BoSaS, this gets absurd because multiplicative) -- as long as you have the movement to jump that high...which being a Monk and using Step of the Wind to Dash helps you reach.

I think a slightly easier grappled movement rule would be that your movement is split between you and the grappled target. So if you want to move up and keep the creature on the same side, you are both using the movement equally so your total movement is half just like RAW. If you want to move up but then swing the creature behind you then you are moving up 5’ and the creature is moving diagonally 5’ so again total movement is half. If you want to stay stationary and swing the creature around, it moves diagonally 5’ twice for a total of a 10’ movement cost, then if you want to push them ahead of you you split the remaining movement in half between the two of you. So all you have to do is count the squares each creature is moving through to arrive at the final movement cost.

The way I rule dragging a grappled creature is that the grappled creature is in your space. When you move, it stays in your space. (This also would make grappling less strong and shoving better, because you can't drag something into and out of a wall of fire without stepping through it yourself, but TBH I've never actually run for a dedicated grapple character before.) I don't have a consistent way to rule medium creatures grappling large creatures; it's just never come up in a game I've run because again, I've never ran for a dedicated grapple character.

@bigdream_dreambig

2 жыл бұрын

Problem with this is you can't drag a grappled creature into a hazardous area without entering the hazardous area yourself.

@watcher314159

2 жыл бұрын

While a convenient ruling in that it's very simple, and is something with precedent in 3e, I have three problems. 1. It's not RAW. You're the DM, you can do what you want, and it doesn't contradict any other rules, but it's definitely not RAW. 2. It's not realistic. There are plenty of arm bars, leg locks, guillotine chokes, and other holds that keep some pretty significant space between combatants. See also Treantmonk's example of swinging around a pixie at arms length. Again, not insurmountable; the rules are an abstraction and are very unrealistic in other ways all the time. 3. And this is the big one: if you're grappling a creature of a larger size category than yourself, you run into the same problem, because your character only occupies a fraction of the spaces your opponent does (unless you're smaller than Medium). As such, all the same questions of where your opponent is relative to you and how that interacts with your movement remain completely unsolved. All you've done is paper over the problem for a few encounters.

@aprinnyonbreak1290

2 жыл бұрын

Agree. Dragging something that's 5 feet away is kinda absurd anyways, and dragging something consistently askew is one of those surreal D&D things like lying prone in midair to give ranged attacks disadvantage against you, or a jump instantly losing all momentum once it hits 30 feet, or older edition things like going from -8000 HP to 0 HP by starting to drown, or it taking nearly 30 minutes to strangle an average high level Fighter to unconsciousness.

@watcher314159

2 жыл бұрын

@@aprinnyonbreak1290 'In another space' doesn't mean '5 feet away'. Grappling and dragging isn't any different from swinging a dagger in that regard. Spaces as an abstraction involve a notion that everyone is constantly playing footsies all over their space as they avoid attacks, turn around to deal with multiple opponents, make feints and probing strikes, lunge and retreat, and adjust their stances, that are too insignificant and happen too quickly to deal with in detail in the rules, and this means that without anyone using any Movement, in the same round two Medium creatures in melee can potentially go anywhere from 0 to 14 feet away from each other and back again. That's also why characters make so few attacks over the course of a 6 second round; any level 1 character can swing their weapon more than once per second (ie more than 6 times per round), but as an abstraction only one of those attacks is done with any commitment and has any potential to deal any damage (manuvering past any shields, parries, cover, dodges, and armour), and it takes a fair bit of training to increase the number of attacks that are actually *effective* in that regard (not to mention getting enough experience to be able to spend less time not swinging your weapons so you can size each other up and catch your breath). As I mentioned in a previous comment, there are plenty of arm bars, leg locks, guillotine chokes, and other holds that are best represented by being in different spaces. And indeed, these grapples are generally the ones you need to be using if you want to drag your opponent around. If you're grappling in your opponent's space, you're quite likely to both be prone, either already or imminently.

@christianopereira3029

2 жыл бұрын

@@watcher314159 The dictionary definition of dragging is "to move something by pulling it along a surface, usually the ground". I don't allow my players to push grappled creatures unless they are strong enough to carry them (the second way in which grapple allows you to move your target).

Thanks for this! I am playing a soulknife rogue/spore druid grappler to benefit from expertise, enhanced ability (str) or enlarge, and psi-bolstered knack. I'm aiming to get Shield Master so I can use my attack to grapple and shove prone with my bonus action, but I can't find anywhere that highlights this seemingly obvious play, no one seems to use it in their builds. Am I misunderstanding something about that feat?

What most people forget is that you can drag grappled targets with your move action, so you can actively pull enemies into dangerous areas or if your like me push them into the flaming wall of fire the spell caster just summoned.

I had some of the same issues with grappling when i started. What i found out was that the book itself revised alot before it came out and thus some things were omited and unclear. That aside using what is in the players handbook makes grappling anything larget then yourself not worth it. What most people dont realize is that the weight of your target also matter against your strength to derermine if you can move the target. The enlarge/reduce spell tells us that the weight of a large creature is eight times that of a medium creature. A base human is 114 lb minimum (page 121) not counting gear. So eight times is 912 lb if it was large. On page 176 you find the rules on push, pull, lift and carrying. You can drag 30 times your strength score. Assuming you strenght is 20 that makes the maximum 600 lb you could push, drag or lift. This would also mean that when grappling something larget then you, you can not drag or push that target becouse it is simply to heavy. Hope this helps clarify some things up. What i personally use in the game is that a large creature can be grappled by someone but the large creature does not gain the grappled condition. When it moves it moves at half speed (due to your weight it has to drag) and you can move with it for free as long as you decide to grapple it. Btw i concider shoving and pushing the same so it can also only work if your strong enough.

I love playing this new game dungeons and Dragging.

Finally, appreciation for the astral monk grappler.

I get the feeling we are getting a Way of the Astral Self monk build, perhaps with a bit of Rune Knight built in as well.

Simple grappling build that is also effective: Be a level 5 custom lineage astral self monk with the free feat being fey touched to get the hex spell and the ASI to be a +2 WIS. Put a 15 into WIS and at level 5 that means your WIS is capped. Since you are an astral self monk, you can use WIS for not only unarmed strikes but also Athletics checks, so if you activate this feature, then next turn hex the target you will be grappling then grapple them, with proficiency in athletics your bonus for grappling and shoving is +8. And since you hexed the opponent, choose which ability score seems like they will be using to escape grapples. They now have disadvantage to escape grapples if you chose correctly. Also 6d6+15 damage without a ki point ain't half bad, probably my next level in this build would probably be rogue for expertise if you are going full in on grappling, though I honestly would take two levels in ranger for an expertise (athletics), a few more spell slots and a fighting style(probably defense or something)

@ericharrison4067

2 жыл бұрын

Note: I didn't hear the part at the end of him saying he was making a grappling monk until just know.

Arms of astral self incoming? *Nero from dmc intensifies*

I play a Astral Monk, Stars Druid grappler that uses Dragon Constellation to essentially get reliable talent on grapple checks. This is a little questionable RAW but my DM allows it. Its fun dragging people into Moonbeam or Create Bonfire but I'm hesitant to run the DPR numbers. I also wish the other martials in my party would do some teamwork with me but they want to hit them very hard (Can't argue with that)

Made a spreadsheet a while ago on this and turns out you should probably not waste your time trying to up your athletics above the point when you can reliably grapple creatures with a +10 mod, unless you're in a campaign with giants (+16 ath colossus from Theros, +14 ath storm giant/stone giant dreamwalker,+13 fire giant dreadnought). The main things you should focus on past this point are how you counter the monsters grapple escape methods (teleports, freedom of movement,etc), lots of monsters spell escapes are counter-able by silence. The spreadsheet also contains the highest grapple mod per creature family (so you know what to build for based on campaign setting), a list of creature that are either un-grapplable or not worth grappling(free teleports,immune,etc), creatures with auras you want to avoid and creatures by size category to see if you really want to even bother tarrasque wrestling. As for my favourite class/race combo, centaur rune knight/arcane trickster, BA dash, access to horseshoes of speed which dont require attunement (+30ft movement),athletics expertise, and the ability to grapple gargantuan creatures as early as level 10(3RK/7AT) with the giants might and enlarge combo(not that that way of levelling is effective otherwise probs best 8RK the rest AT). My bets are on the build being a mix of Astral Self,Rune Knight, and a Druid(for enlarge), that way you can really build up wisdom fast without it hurting the build and pick up unarmed fighting style for decent monk punches. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dKa11c46UYZlN3nCpBwXVVOc0-zQtsmj/edit#gid=2037988243

One simple house rule is: a Monk's grapple restraints the target. There are so many joint lock techniques in martial arts that DnD Monks (a supposed power fantasy) are worse than reality in that aspect

@monohybridstudios

2 жыл бұрын

Restrain is a very potent effect. Monks are certainly underpowered but that might put their grappling abilities over the top IMO especially with Way of the Astral Self existing as a potent grappler while dumping STR.

Pinning with Grappler feat is great on an unarmed fighter, and unarmed fighting deals 1d4 damage (negligible, but mine is a low level so I'll take it) at the start of each of your turns on your grappled target.

Helped a character make a build for this. 1 level barbarian adv (str checks) 5 level Astral monk(grappler feat) then 3 fighter battlemaster then 2 more barbarian totem bear. You can grapple with your four arms. You can trip and disarm enemies and have resistance to most damages. The purple arms also give your grapple 10ft of range. It's a str monk build. Very solid.

That's how i rule grappling/dragging on my table. After you grappled someone, your speed doesnt become halved. Instead, you can move normally, but you have to keep grappled creature within your reach. And when you move that creature, you spend your speed. So, you can grapple a creature and move around it by spending 5 feet for every square or you can stand on your place and move grappled creature around yourself by spending 5 feet for every square. That's really easy to remember and to use and it doesnt break anything

I'm guessing that we are going to get an unarmed fighting build, Rune Knight with the unarmed fighting style, and Way of the Astral Self Monk. SAD monk with Wisdom as the primary score enables taking spellcasting classes later on, though cleric and druid don't have Enlarge/reduce on their spell lists unfortunately (though a moon druid could wildshape into a large creature which could then become huge via Giant's Might). Duregar might be worth it for the larger size, alternatively, a flying race can give us some grapple+drop shenanigans.

I really hope the rabbit hop suplex makes an appearance, especially if he's doing a monk build

A friend of mine made a moon druid / bear totem barb that would grapple things. It was always fun being the wizard buffing the guy so he could jump up and suplex things as a bear

Im an old GM taking in the changes of more than 20 years, and I have to say one of the best things about it is having it outlined in print when I'd use grapple, shove, and climb with pack tactics and make some mid level tank fear for his life from a number of kobolds or the like, even the help action comes into play...

@coreycoffell6219

3 ай бұрын

And you thought you were going to keep that pilferd armor

That ending got me so curious as to what the build is going to be. Astral Monk? 3 levels of druid for spike growth and longstrider? But then how will you get advantage and change size? ... Moon druid? Can't wait for that build.

I've been want to do a grapple build with like a wrestling persona for a bit now and finally have a game coming up that might be fun for it. My plan is to use the updated Duergar to gain Enlarge/Reduce and combine three levels of totem barbarian so I can get the bonus action dash with pure rune knight.

Thanks!

I just came here to see if my Goliath yeeting things into spikes in caves, off cliffs, into rapids, or overhead bouncing things off the pavement like a football was valid. Happy it is. I'm

I honestly think rogue is the best grappler, you get expertise and you get reliable talent so if you have an 18 strength at level 11 that’s 12 for athletics so the lowest you can possibly roll is a 22. Also grappling would give advantage so sneak attack comes in handy there, your not tanky like at all so maybe take arcane trickster for sheild? They do have disadvantage on hitting you but like later on it’s not gonna matter