As for the Granolah feat, which I completely forgot about. Besides the fact Vegeta literally states he’s using a technique superior to Instant Transmission. Meaning he’s not using Speed to overcome the technique. But Instant Transmission is strictly a teleportation technique. Which is especially contingent on the reaction speed and combat speed of Goku to move his hand to his forehead and activate it. So if you’re just faster than Goku’s Reaction Speed, you can hit him before he can even use it. But expect more videos on Dragonball in the near future. We ain’t done!

@GooberGlumbus

Жыл бұрын

Goku doesn't necessarily need his fingers on his forehead for instant transmission to activate, He does it to better lock on to and concentrate on an energy signature. It's not required for the technique itself, rather an aid to it. But considering he mostly does it with the fingers, reacting and acting faster than his reaction in moving his fingers to attack him before he uses it still holds up (the way its worded to me felt like you mean the technique relies on the fingers. Maybe I misinterpreted your statement so correct me if I'm wrong lol)

@antoinepolnareff8970

Жыл бұрын

In reality is a lower level of Teletransportation and are other several Beyond Linear speed times withing manga and anime

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

@@GooberGlumbus more so that the teleportation technique regardless is contingent on how fast Goku’s reaction speed is. Unless you’re Metal Cooler and you react to and fight Goku mid Instant Transmission, reacting to teleportation itself isn’t inherently impressive

@GooberGlumbus

Жыл бұрын

@@surfbone oh, yeah that's true

@ontosinabyss5950

Жыл бұрын

Okay, just to be clear, time moves in Hits dimension, it's just if you're faster and stronger than him, Time skip won't have any affect on you

Take it from a Comic books guy, y'all do NOT want these speed tiers for your shows. It DESTROYS storytelling, creates infinite plot holes and ruins all time related tensions

@derricknewb7001

Жыл бұрын

*THANK YOU FOR POINTING THAT OUT* It's the main reason why movies, games or series struggles or out right falls apart People SHIT on the flash series, but they gotta fucking remember the damn comics feats these speedsters have It's nothing but a mess and was destined to crash and burn

@FatefulMedia3383

Жыл бұрын

What do you mean by that my dude?

@derricknewb7001

Жыл бұрын

@@FatefulMedia3383 Dude- The comic speed feats like Infinite, inaccessible, immeasurable and irrelevant is too fucking much for any game, movie or series It ruins a lot of stuff...

@FatefulMedia3383

Жыл бұрын

@@derricknewb7001 Depends on the verse.

@lucidsEmerald232

Жыл бұрын

I mean the only reason why we have the tiers is to measure what the characters range of power.

The real reason Goku will never have those speed tiers is simple. If Goku had Infinite, Inaccessible, or Immeasurable speed, then he could do everything Instant Transmission does and more by raw speed alone. Him having those speed tiers invalidates one of his classic and signature techniques. Which is why the writers will never elevate him to that level.

@GitoOoOoOo

Жыл бұрын

he surpassed time in the tournament of power because whis blantly stated he did when he went ui

@GitoOoOoOo

Жыл бұрын

ima say it even tho its debunkable but krillin stated that they were in a place where time did not exist but that has nothing to do with it

@Nasdontkno

Жыл бұрын

@@GitoOoOoOoare you talking about tournament on power because that has time

@Nasdontkno

Жыл бұрын

There’s a lot of characters with inf to immeasurable or wtv speed that still use their techniques him using instant transmission doesn’t debunk anything🤷🏽

@kwamemwangs2173

Жыл бұрын

​@@NasdontknoI actually don't think the word of void had time I'm not sure tho

This funna start a war with Dragon Ball fans

@cryingdutchman

Жыл бұрын

good, they are by far the most insufferable and toxic fanbase out there

@Foreign885

Жыл бұрын

Ong

@Foreign885

Жыл бұрын

​@@cryingdutchmannot really

@AutonaMech

Жыл бұрын

@@cryingdutchman try playing LOL for the first time...

@Rhetorical_Ife

Жыл бұрын

ok bot

This is so well done and some points I was trying to make a long time ago with arguments on the point. They get so caught up with making characters way strong they kind of except crazy notions without a second thought

@AJ_Staff333

2 ай бұрын

Watch Hystor1c.'s video debunking this then you might have some more valid points coming from someone who can actually read. Unlike surfbone here.

@FrostByte_06

Ай бұрын

Its not. This video got debunked

@FrostByte_06

Ай бұрын

​@@AJ_Staff333 yh this vid is bs. Goku is outer with immesurable speed do to the fact goku destroyes a supee dimension and those dimensions are beyond dimensuality meaning outerversal

Now I have a good argument against that one guy that said goku has irrelevant speed

@GitoOoOoOo

Жыл бұрын

anime goku has infinite speed not irrelevant

@Mrsir529

Жыл бұрын

@@GitoOoOoOo not infinite speed either, he has mftl speed

drip sauce debunked this whole video

@Davidutul

Жыл бұрын

Let's check Google Inaccessible (The ability to move distances, whether finite or infinite, in zero time without the aid of teleportation. This is usually achieved by moving in places outside of time or places where time doesn't flow.) immeasurable speed means you're no longer bound by distance or speed meaning you can travel through any distance faster than instantly. If you move a distance in less than 0 seconds(aka faster than instantly) ,only negative numbers can be less than 0, meaning that it would mean to go back in time which is time travel done my raw speed Well ki is said to be found in all living beings. The ground is not alive,space is not alive and so on and so forth So perhaps put your source on where it says ki is everything, alive or not instead of a simple claim. Shock waves are waves in space and time If 2 black holes collide, the black holes make waves in space and time Do the black holes themselves move faster than their wave of collision? Not really Also he is right tho You can't assume something to be possible if you don't see the proof of it. He is not saying it's evidence that Goku can't move that fast,it's just that we can't assume Goku can move that fast. Not the same thing The speed of whis doesn't have any entertainment purpose in his travels tho. So best that could be called is the inconsistency of the anime. Usually,there we have to use the latest information because that would be the most recent Canon information in the case the creator changed his mind. Well by your logic, the timer that is used must also be having access to immeasurable speed too And the audience has a live video of the whole event. If it's live it means the time where it is filmed, being equal in time speed or the place where they look at the live, would mean that the time passes in equal speed in both sides. It could be entertaining without the "outside of time"idea and it would make sense too Also the fact that the characters there can move literally suggests that they have equal time frame from A to B Well Zeno could erase the concept part of zamasu in the space of that timeline. Like cleaning the color of a textile Lastly, even if you would make some good points, you are so rude and toxic in your responses to his video that people would just not side with you for the simple factors of rudeness and not of whether you're right or not. Advice: be more neutral Not that he doesn't want to debate you. Nobody wants to debate toxic people that call them dumb, stupid, rapist, and any rude word possible, every damn sentence you have a chance to

@Davidutul

Жыл бұрын

The whole debunking of his response

@Mattsover

Жыл бұрын

⁠@@Davidutulwhen did he say racist or you making a example?

@Mattsover

Жыл бұрын

@@Davidutuland what this paragraph what is this suppose to be?

@Davidutul

Жыл бұрын

@@Mattsover read again. Rapist Or that is what I understand he said in that discord part of the video on call that he was saying tho I'm not quite sure

This was a really good video, definitely worth the wait. Can’t wait for more videos in the future.

@FrostByte_06

Ай бұрын

Its not a good vid. He got debunked

A nitpick about Hits Timeskip: It's clearly stated by vados that hit actually "skips forward in time" hence why the name is time skip. Then she explains his pocket dimension by saying "he stores the time skipped" (meaning he already performed timeskip) into a pocket dimension that is "parallel" to this time. He then can "move freely" through that dimension The phrasing and context here is important because unlike how you explained it, both techniques are different. Also his dimension is different from the room of spirit and time. While the hyperbolic time chamber is basically just time dialation, hits pocket world is built from time itself. think of time as a youtube livestream. During a live video you can visit every moment that already passed. However even if youre watching earlier events there are still live events happening (the video is still moving fowsrd in time). Hit in this case can only store milliseconds of that livestream All of this to say, Jiren moving and breaking out of that is very impressive because he quite literally surpassed time (the time stored in that pocket dimension). Whether that makes jiren above time idk i just wanted to explain a small mistake you made 😂😂

@TheShadow5021

6 ай бұрын

I guess the answer to jiren surpassing time would be Yes and No since he surpassed 1 variation of time and there could or can be many versions of the Concept of Time which function differently. I might aswell add this for no reason, the True Concept of Time would always be superior to any other version of the Concept of Time since they're just a fragment of how True Time functions

@lucidstudious750

6 ай бұрын

@theshadow5021 in the manga it's a little more clear. Hit actually slows down time or even stops it for anyone but himself. His prison that he threw to jiren puts jiren in a time dialation which jiren just powers through breaking through time (not dimension, time) Even to your point as "true time" the world of voids is beyond space and time but clearly a "true" definite time exists there for hit to be able to use his abilities, and hiren was stated to surpass that. No matter which version you use, they pretty much surpassed the very concept of time itself ---------------------- That being said the issue with dragon ball is the same with flash comics. We know what these characters are capable of, but the writers aren't consistent with the feats for the sake of entertainment! Also the timing is funny because I literally just finished my re read of the super manga

@theomnigamer9177

2 ай бұрын

An important thing to note in Dragon Ball, hax can be entirely negated if the opponent is just stronger or their Ki is higher. If we look at Hakai, Beerus annihilated Zamasu because he was vastly stronger than him. In the TOP, when Toppo tried to use Hakai on Vegeta, Vegeta powered through it because he was stronger than Toppo. Another example is Vegito and Buuhan. While Vegito got turned into candy, Vegito still retained his amazing power due to the sheer gap in power. This can be applied for Goku and Jiren when they fought against Hit. Hits time based abilities aren’t of worth if his opponents are stronger.

@chosengen1able

2 ай бұрын

In my opinion, this video is mostly wrong. I do agree on the speed take; i don't scale goku to infinite or higer speed. That being said, this guy gets most other things wrong. The supposed shockwaves where stated to grow stronger the further away they travelled; normal shockwaves don't behave like that. Goku punching with the same force as beerus to cancel it woukd have been counter productive, causing more 'normal' shockwaves. As you rightly said, hit's time skip and his dimensions are not the same thing. Vados literally stated that. IDK how some people read her statement and somehow still get it wrong. Hit can infact stop time. Jaco stated that he could stop time for others and hit himself stated that time was stopped for everyone else except him and that mob boss (the boss was frozen too at first but hit unfroze him). I believe the reason for the English dub stating that goku forced himself through time was due to the fact that hit had to increase his time-skip length (going further into the future) to dodge goku's attack because he really didn't have to do that. IDK if it's true or not but that would be a good explanation for why hit had to increase his time skip, rather than just time-skipping to a different location to avoid the punch.

@chosengen1able

2 ай бұрын

In my opinion the authors did not do a good job explaining and showcasing hit's abilities. Even when it seamed like hit was stopping time in his first fight against goku, he still called it time-skip. If that is time-skip, then goku predicting his moves should not matter since he would be frozen and hit can do whatever he wants. If it's time-skip as the word and vados imply, then goku shouldn't be frozen while hit lands a barrage of punches. It was just a mess.

W video surfbone can't wait for more.

@FrostByte_06

Ай бұрын

This vid got debunked

Dam that’s a great debunk I’m using it for GER vs Goku debate Thanks so much you saved me.

Saw the title to agree, watching/watched the video to make sure. Thumbed up.

I think I can accept this as an example of proof for now, that last one with zeno is still fishy but at least some one is ACTUALLY EXPLAINING IT!

@AJ_Staff333

2 ай бұрын

Bro the fact you think this is good proof is kinda sad in my personal opinion..

@nisansparow3390

2 ай бұрын

@@AJ_Staff333 I was confused for a moment, mostly because this is a comment from 10 months ago and you still assumed I believed this video as complete proof. At least that's what your comment suggested. But hey, let's ignore all that including the "for now" bit in my comment where it suggests that I don't believe the video to be definitive proof despite actually showing scans, and explanations on how erasure works. What could possibly go wrong.

@AJ_Staff333

Ай бұрын

Yeah I agree with you ALOT now I look back and understand my statement was more biased but I still agree with what I said although I could've said it better

@FrostByte_06

Ай бұрын

This vid got debunked

@nisansparow3390

Ай бұрын

@@FrostByte_06 cool

You know, I thought this was more going to be about his actual power, rather than his speed.

@FrostByte_06

Ай бұрын

This vid got debunked anyway. Goku is outerversal and has immesurable speed

Nice video!

Goku may be bounded by time but my cup of water isn't

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

That’s a pretty OP cup ngl Lol

Correct me if Im wrong, but in the Manga, after Zeno destroyed the future trunks timeline, the time ring in the main timeline that represented that universe was Also destroyed. Does this imply that Zeno did infact erease the whole timeline as a concept, or did the ring dissapear because that universes timeline was gone aswell

@paperprince2953

Жыл бұрын

The time ring only disappeared because of Zeno destroying the parallel world. Gowasu states that the time rings at the top of the box are each for a parallel world that's been created when the past has been changed. So when a new parallel world is created, so is a time ring which the time rings are only connected to a single timeline or parallel universe/world that is again, only created by changing the past. Jaco also confirms that controlling time leads to creating a whole new world. So saying that Zeno destroyed the timeline on a conceptual level is obviously wrong as the Time Ring is not confirmed to be the abstract origin of timelines, it is directly created through the changes of the past. I keep repeating myself, I know but I just want to make this understandable. Not only that, Zeno required charging to accomplish such a feat.

@mauricejohnson2351

Жыл бұрын

​@@paperprince2953he destroyed the time line on a conceptual level

@paperprince2953

Жыл бұрын

@@mauricejohnson2351 what suggests that?

@GooberGlumbus

Жыл бұрын

​​@@mauricejohnson2351then how did they travel back to a timeline that was conceptually gone via the time machine?

@mauricejohnson2351

Жыл бұрын

@@GooberGlumbus Therice#0486 I’ll answer your questions

To be fair when it comes to stuff such as cosmology or deminsional tiers, we must remeber Toei and Toriyama are VERY bad at consistenty, logic, and power creeps. Great video though, gives me stuff to think on.

@FatefulMedia3383

Жыл бұрын

@Clothespins Unfortunately yes.

@FatefulMedia3383

Жыл бұрын

@Clothespins How so?

@arkkon2740

Жыл бұрын

​@Clothespinsbeing inconsistent with power creep would just make things worse. Like gohan constantly said that he was training on the side, and somehow he and piccolo outclassed Goku and Vegeta after the Granolah arc. This makes a giant plot hole because Piccolo could have just helped the entire time since he had this ability for god knows how long, and gohan wouldn't have trouble with these people in the slightest and yet he did. Not to mention the Moro arc, they went to earth and he was there but he barely had any hand in the fight at all.

@penguingameplays6253

Жыл бұрын

​@@arkkon2740dbssh happpend after not before

@cheesefinder111

Жыл бұрын

@@FatefulMedia3383 Fancy seeing you here, It's a small world haha, hope you have a great day/night

Really good video! Everything was explained quite well here. Also, what is the song that plays at 2:33? I've been looking for it ever since I saw the Xenoverse 2 cutscene of UI Goku fighting Kid Buu.

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

It’s a track is called "Urban Area" from DBZ Extreme Butoden

@TheHedgememe

Жыл бұрын

@@surfbone Thank you!

@cjcj4861

Жыл бұрын

​@@surfboneyoung man you are absolutely fucking wrong jiren is extremely powerful he has some good Feats so don't even try to downplay it as much as I hate Dragon Ball super don't even do it

@cjcj4861

Жыл бұрын

​@@surfbonedo you even know what you're talkin about cuz it seems to me you don't stop claiming that you know something about Dragon Ball but you know nothing I know a lot more Dragon Ball than you ever do I'm not even joking kid

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

@@cjcj4861 you’re so hostile when I never said Jiren was weak. All I did I was make a video giving my reasons for why the arguments for him being that fast are terrible. Very ironic I’m the one being called a child when you’re the one throwing a temper tantrum and being incredibly condescending. Either give an argument or act like a baby somewhere else.

Love the thumbnail lol. It’s been a while since I watched or played Yu-Gi-Oh and time wizard was one of the coolest cards in the anime.

7:01 The time skip is not the same thing as moving in the parallel world. Hit himself makes the distinction between techniques when he ironically asks Goku if he seems cordial enough to seem like he's going to use time skipping against Goku like in the tournament. And when Goku came back to life, he said that it wasn't actually a time skip, but that it was something cooler from his perspective. The parallel dimension technique is derived from the time jump, but they are not the same thing. That dimension was created with the time skipped he has gathered; while the time skip involves stopping everyone's time except his for more than 0.5 seconds in the anime and 0.1 seconds in the manga. In other words, since time is still moving for Hit, he has 9 hundredths of a second free to move until his tenth of a second is up while time is stopped for everyone else, and after Hit's tenth of a second is up the time moves again for everyone equally. And Hit was seen hitting Goku in zero time, with his last evolution with which he surpassed Goku's Kaiokenx10. That is resistance to blows with inaccessible speed, because from the victim's perspective time is stopped, and Hit's punches were traveling distances in zero time, forcing Goku's body to move at an inaccessible speed because Hit punches him in his vital points shaking him violently in zero time.

Appreciate the clarification this entire time I went around saying ui goku trancesends time

Using Kirby music, mad respect, man has good taste

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

Give ups to my editor Trent!

@GooberGlumbus

Жыл бұрын

@@surfbone Trent W

Bro uploaded finally

3:46 Ki is just one medium in which energy is possessed in. Shockwaves is that energy running through another medium and when it spreads it becomes inversely proportional to the square distance of the source. Which means the shockwaves at its zenith which would be Kaioshin Realm has far less energy than what Goku and Beerus was letting out.

@coffei4543

Жыл бұрын

Take the tnt explosion example and think about it again, also he only shook the macroverse which takes much less ap than destroying it

@adityadas6638

Жыл бұрын

Wrong angel ,gods everyone confimed that whole macrocosm of u7 going to be destroyed

@fabled_kakashi

5 ай бұрын

@@adityadas6638 3 shakes going to destroy the u7 so it clearly means those shakes are ≠ AP bcz if the shake is = AP so it should destroy u7 in one shake which it never did

@adityadas6638

5 ай бұрын

@@fabled_kakashi coz the 3rd one never happened 🤣🤣

@fabled_kakashi

5 ай бұрын

@@adityadas6638 so lmao it just proves the shock wave was not = AP if it is it means 1 shock wave = u7 destroyed

9:27 That makes more sense now. I dont think it was ever really explained in the anime (at least not in the dub anyway) as to how Goku overcame Hit's time skip.

FINALLY A VIDEO RAAAAAH

Common surfbone w keep up the good work

Something where you were completely wrong is to say that infinite Zamasu would have the time ring, because Fusion Zamasu was completely eliminated by Trunks and even so, Zamasu left his physical body completely. he would have no way to hold something like the time ring to use it.

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

It disappeared along with him, and had already created that rift prior. And if you don’t think he still has the time ring, it makes no sense as to why he should up in the main timeline.

@Felow01

Жыл бұрын

@@surfbone It's not that "he disappeared with him." That wouldn't make any kind of logic. Since they confirmed to us that Zamasu left his body to be able to merge with the universe. The ring could not be worn in any way, all this infinite Zamasu stuff is strange, I don't deny it. But you just can't prove in any way that the Time Ring helped Infinite Zamasu, since it *didn't*

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

@@Felow01 this just sounds headcanon, since him still having the Time Ring is the only logical reason as to how he could have traveled there. The the only two things capable of time travel or traveling to different timelines is a Time Machine, the Time Ring, or an Angel’s staff. If your argument is just “it didn’t,” then either tell me how and why or I’m just dismissing it.

@Felow01

Жыл бұрын

@@surfbone “Sounds like some kind of Headcanon”…. Oh really? Gowasu himself says "Maybe Zamasu intends to become the universe" "He discard the form of God from him and try to become order and justice" There is no evidence that Zamasu still has the Time ring and to say that he took it with him would be illogical since the ring would have ceased to exist due to Trunks's attack. Simply accept that Zamasu made that journey between timelines by Himself.

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

@@Felow01 Zamasu becoming one with the universe doesn’t explain his timeline hopping, hate to break it to you. And Trunk doesn’t have existence erasure, you’d be hard pressed to prove that. So Zamasu still has it, and even IF he did make that trip by himself, it doesn’t say anything about his speed. As I already explained in my video.

Some of these arguments are genuinely stupid, and others were never the arguments to begin with. Let's talk the universe first-a large amount of guides and statements from the series would mean the universe is infinitely large. Bulma in Super says they're at the edge of the universe but on the maps this is shown to be false. They're not to scale, but they are location guides. Anyone crossing the universe would be infinite speed, as it's much more consistent than any finite claim. Whis' staff. It's quite apparent Whis' staff's travel speed isn't on par with him in combat nor is its power, as it could create a blast Goku could deflect in Super Saiyan 2 in the anime at least and in other anime episodes (finding a clip is proving difficult and I know it's in Seth's Goku video but I refuse to give a pedo watch time), Goku was able to catch up to a flying Whis in base form. Don't think I need to go over why that's a dumb argument. The shockwaves, Beerus and Goku surpass these to such a ridiculous extent even in the same fight saying they don't scale is idiotic. Further, your point on the shockwaves not being ki is irrelevant. The shockwaves were from the force of their blows colliding. As such, the blows hit hard enough to PRODUCE the shockwaves of such speed-which is why Goku has to PERFECTLY counter Beerus' power, angle and speed in the fight to cancel them out. Thus their blows either have infinite force or infinite speed, and since this is Dragon Ball where 99.999% of the time the two stats correlate they'd just have it anyway. Hit doesn't just teleport to another dimension, you literally even PUT THE SCANS in the video where Vados says Hit does skip ahead in time, then uses this stored time to CREATE his pocket dimension. Hit also describes the ability as jumping ahead in time by fractions of a second. If Hit does not skip time, he cannot create his pocket realm. Simple as that. kzread.info/dash/bejne/pGqorLurhpephZM.html This is explained in the fight with Jiren "Hit can hide in a separate space he created by the time he's skipped" ToP, considering the ring itself can be breathed on it's very likely the World of Void is a void and Grand Priest simply placed time, air, and other factors in the ring. And Beerus is generally credible regarding things like this if not Whis would correct him so I don't think the statement itself is wrong. The things that would warrant it being a speed feat though are Jiren, Goku and Toppo forcing their ki out to the World of Void. While Goku and Jiren shaking it can be questioned as shaking infinite nothing is....weird, Toppo objectively covers the WoV in his purple Hakai energy. So either the infinite part or the timeless part would be valid for those feats at least. Or you have to say Beerus is wrong and I don't see any reason why he would be. Zamasu. He literally performs the feat in question, and such feat is reacted to by multiple characters as you even concede later. He is visibly shown spreading throughout the universe and timeline. Also, did you forget that the Time Ring forced the rift to close? Which is how Goku Black went back to the future mid fight with Goku? "Is the distortion in space and time returning to normal?" kzread.info/dash/bejne/i4d2qMeFpdareso.html And "Zamasu would likely still have the time ring" his body was completely destroyed, the ring along with it in the very scene before this happens. This is a blatant lie to the audience. As is the omnipresent part, as he is shown ON SCREEN as you show IN THE VIDEO doing. Arguing against the Zeno one is also just idiotic. The anime shows the time ring, which represents the timeline, go dark and lose shine. In the manga, it completely disappears. The timeline was erased. Not just what was in it. This is again just a lie. Those last two arguments are weak and fall apart with any context because they're just blatant feats. Best case for you is to call outlier, but they happened and just saying "uh well I don't think it's that way" is just dumb. This video was dogshit. Debate me if you want to stand these shitty arguments.

@mauricejohnson2351

Жыл бұрын

Thank god you think so💀

@LeaderOfTheLostSouls

Жыл бұрын

W Bible, couldn’t have said it better myself man. But to nitpick, the WoV feat is an infinite speed and an inaccessible speed feat a the same time Cuz it’s infinite and it’s timeless lol He’s such a clown acting like he’s more knowledgeable and reasonable but messes lore up that’s basic shit to the point he argues with the screen which is hilariously moronic lol funny by saying we can’t read, I mean it’s true a lot of fans can’t read tho ofc Man it reminds me of people denying the BoG feat being Uni even tho it’s on screen, oh wait he does deny part of the BoG feat lol This shit was so goofy in the livestream but it was hard to keep up with chat so good thing he made this video so we can laugh at his moronic views more easily.

@faisali.chowdhiry821

Жыл бұрын

​@@mauricejohnson2351surfbone is really coping lmao What's worse is that there's a new high outer goku scale that hasn't been debunked yet

@mauricejohnson2351

Жыл бұрын

@@faisali.chowdhiry821 is it the beerus one🤭

@pagalladka9809

Жыл бұрын

​@@faisali.chowdhiry821i mean a db human can get to that via Dr slump

@surfbone This is part 2 of my debunk/rebuttal to the the video, specifically to the arguments made on Goku in reference to whether or not he has shown feats of immeasurable speed. (Part 1 has already been posted) Immeasurable Speed Goku: Your stance is that Goku does not have immeasurable speed based of the Hit fight where you argue that his time skip is based off him going into a parallel world and resurfacing rather than moving forward in time, making Goku's feat more so one of martial arts rather than a speed feat. This is wrong for multiple reasons. You confused Vados' explanation of another technique for the function of time skip. Time skip was clearly explained in the U6 tournament as Hit skipping multiple milliseconds to seconds in the future. The technique that Vados was explaining in the rematch of Goku vs Hit was a new one that Hit created after his fight with Goku. This technique actually uses time skip as it's precursor, with Hit being able to store the time he's skipped in order to create a parallel dimension of time. It's with this technique that he can hide while an intangible image of his body remains in the physical world. Essentially Hit's version of kamui. And just like Kamui Hit can bring others into this world expect time flows different in this parallel world. You explanation of time skip comes with problems as for one, why would Hit be surprised in the U6 tourn. that Goku could move with him in the parallel world if time moves with them at the same rate as demonstrated when he uses it on the mob boss? Time skip in itself is infact Hit going beyond linear time and "skipping" into the future. When the fight begins between Goku and Hit, base Goku was able to predict where Hit would attack based on his own openings. When Hit improved enough that even with SSJB Goku wasn't able to predict his movements, he was forced to kioken which is specifically meant to raise speed and power of the user, not their battle prowess. Even before the feat where Goku is shown reacting, moving, and countering Hit skipping time, they specifically made it a point to display Goku's speed of all things, and how Hit couldn't track his movements, basically a foreshadowing of his feat shortly after when he pushes himself to his max kioken. Based off all of the evidence it is clear Goku in fact did display immeasurable speed against Hit in the U6 tournament. Side Note: I'm not too sure what the point of the Dyspo vs Hit reference was considering Dyspo was attacking Hit before he can use Time skip based on his shifting muscles, a counter only available to Dyspo because of his extremely sensitive ears. This has nothing to do with Goku's feat where we see him moving with Hit with time skip already in effect. Part 3 to be released soon…..

@Smokeychees

Жыл бұрын

Man great work did you already upload part 3 ?

@uncertifiedhater5902

Жыл бұрын

@gennarosacco3815 Appreciate it bro. Part 3 should be released later today

@Smokeychees

Жыл бұрын

@@uncertifiedhater5902👍🏼 and W

@ligma-jobs

Жыл бұрын

If i remember hits time skip is only effective if the person is near or below his level

@cachecolZ

Жыл бұрын

​@@ligma-jobs thats only manga, the anime treats it very differently

Once a fictional setting establishes a character as being able to move, react, and even speak faster than light, I just lose all suspension of disbelief.

@user-cd5fm3hh9k

11 ай бұрын

Its become even funnier, when someone thinks there is not enough bs, and decides that char. A have infinite speed 1, and then there is char. B that have infinite speed 2 too but somehow it even more faster than first one

One small question Wouldn't Goku and Beerus generating the infinite speed shockwaves still be evidence that they can attack at infinite speeds (and thus react to them), without necessarily meaning that their travel speed is the same?

@CommentPositionInformer

10 ай бұрын

The shockwaves weren't infinite in speed. Infinite speed requires crossing an infinite distance in a finite time. Which they didn't, since they didn't reach the edges of the universe. As the shockwaves merely crossed a finite distance in a non-zero time, they're just MFTL+.

@CommentPositionInformer

10 ай бұрын

@@Samurai_Capcut Did they travel there, or where they just *visible* from there?

@miftahuljannat3050

10 ай бұрын

@@Samurai_Capcutread the manga again. Wish stated that Hits time skip only works on people weaker then him. So no goku didn’t move beyond time it’s just that he was faster then hit which made Hits time skip irrelevant.

@soloelqueobserva3312

7 ай бұрын

@@Samurai_Capcut That makes the Dragon Ball hax weak, because it is enough to be stronger than the user to overcome said hax.

@miftahuljannat3050

7 ай бұрын

@@Samurai_Capcut And Wish couldn’t travel a finite distance in an instant, which is not infinite speed 🤡 is wish himslef doesn’t have infinite speed how could goku? So sit the fuck down

Amazing video so far, I'm in love with it. Everything about this makes so much sense. And while I may come to some disagreements on what I've personally heard you scale DBS Goku, I see you as a trustworthy source for Dragon Ball powerscalers. It's immensely rare to see an actual good powerscaler amongst all the superficial crap that people from discord use without even thinking much thought or enough thought about it. I've been a fan ever since your Powerscaling Guide videos anyways. I don't scale anyone in Dragon Ball at Universal+, let alone Low Multiversal for a variety of reasons in the verse itself which proves it to be wrong.

@antoinepolnareff8970

Жыл бұрын

In reality the Whole video is completly wrong

@johnnyjoestar5981

Жыл бұрын

​@@antoinepolnareff8970tag him with your rebuttals then

@GitoOoOoOo

Жыл бұрын

only thing wrong with this is just he didn't point out whis stated goku surpassed time when he went ui

@antoinepolnareff8970

Жыл бұрын

@@johnnyjoestar5981 I did and even them there is Gogeta and Broly in Supersaiyan 1 moving in a Timeless Dimension or how manga fusion Zamasu is stated to being able to destroy all parallel worlds.

@Majestic481

Жыл бұрын

​@@antoinepolnareff8970Do you have a source to support your claim that both Gogeta and Super Saiyan Broly moved within a timeless dimension? If so, where can this be found?

0:41 oh hey that’s me!

5:50 well you're also forgetting that the shock waves were stated to grow stronger than the point of collision which means cannot scale to their shockwaves from this scenario.

Surfboner after making worst debunk possible : 👯‍♂️👯‍♂️

@kombatman8802

Жыл бұрын

Copium

@wcom9999

Жыл бұрын

@@kombatman8802 Who needs to when even 4th grader can debaunk this

@kombatman8802

Жыл бұрын

@@wcom9999 lies

This is a great video. It explains the weird time inconsistencies that a lot of Db powerscales use to wank Goku to inaccessible to immeasurable speeds. However, I still think that Goku is firmly infinite speed. In the Goku vs Beerus fight, it is true that Goku does not scale to the speed of the shockwaves created by his clash with Beerus; however, it has been shown many times in Dragonball that a character's speed scales linearly to a characters power, that being that if a character becomes 2 time stronger, than a character will also be two times as fast. The living universe has been stated in several guidebooks to be infinite in scope, so the universe busting clash between Goku and Beerus, they would have infinite attack potency. This would then scale both of their speeds to be infinite. This is further supported when Ui Omen Goku was able to shake the infinite world of void by existing. This also does not contradict Whis's statements of being the fastest in the universe and still crossing the universe in 25 minutes at his top speed because Goku can still have infinite speed, but have a lower infinite speed compared to Whis so that he will cross the infinite universe in a much slower time than Whis.

@puppet_master2486

Жыл бұрын

in the daizenshu and other japanese translations that have evidence pointing to goku having immesurable speed and being beyond time so basically this video we saw was useless

@kamehamehayes1440

Жыл бұрын

Does this mostly have to do with statements that Otherworld is a transadental realm, higher dimensional realm, and beyond time? I normally don't go into that for consistency reasons and because it can just as easily be translated as higher dimensional because it is the next stage of life that you go to after you die, not necessarily because it is above time or anything.

@arkkon2740

Жыл бұрын

​@@puppet_master2486And this makes instant transmission and Whis taking them places absolutely obsolete, but they still do it. So what is it, do they do it for the plot or because no one is actually this fast?

@S3rp3nte

Жыл бұрын

Beerus (who was supressing his power to be on equal foot with SSjG Goku) was ble react and nullify an explosion that was going to wipe out universe 7, so even if you don't want to scale the shockwaves to the characters that its still a legit infinte speed feat (if you believe that universe 7 its infinite in size). Also using Whis's Warp doesn't work since travel speed and combat speed are treated differently in the series, as Early DBZ Goku can already be argue to be Relativistic to FTL in combat speed yet when it come to travel speed he its not even Hypersonic as he still needed his Nimbus Cloud to travel to Raditz.

@arkkon2740

Жыл бұрын

@@S3rp3nte The shockwave comparison still doesn't make sense. He was reacting after the shockwaves were already sent out, and everyone else was reacting so that would mean the entire universe has that speed. He also neutralized each punch, reacting to the waves implies he was catching the waves and stopping them before they did further damage

Beautiful art...

Now i remember sonic and the flash speed measurement 😂

Love that thumbnail! Time Wizard, time Roulette!

Some people might say that since the shockwaves came from goku and beerus, they should scale to the infinite speed of the shockwaves, since they physically made it. Here’s the thing, upon closer look those shockwaves were slow as heck, as earthlings (who couldn’t perceive kid krillen and roshis fight) and the old Kai (whom goku blitzed with his ki blast in base) were still able to perceive those shockwaves. This implies that the movement of the shockwaves themselves weren’t fast, yet we still see the shockwaves exit the universe. I think the more likely interpretation based on what I said, is that rather than the waves having an infinite travel speed they had an expansion rate that was infinite. This accounts for earthlings noticing it, while also accounting it exiting the universe.

@luisfernan-s7731

Жыл бұрын

That only applies to the waves, not the character who makes it.

@princelamar1735

Жыл бұрын

@@luisfernan-s7731 Exactly.

@cachecolZ

Жыл бұрын

​@@princelamar1735 it exited the universe in seconds, meaning it aint just "slow"

@princelamar1735

Жыл бұрын

@@cachecolZ due to its expansion, not because of its travel speed.

@WThroat

Жыл бұрын

@@princelamar1735 expanding infinitely and expanding an infinite space are 2 different things. this debunk is not good delete this comment. crossing an infinite space in seconds still makes you infinite speed

W video fire ah editing and good logic , I’m a up and coming YT scaler and seeing as your pretty big you got any advice?

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

A pretty big compliment because I don’t really think I’m that big yet. I hope to get there. But my advice is, do what you enjoy talking about, what you’re talking about is something that can turn into long term content (hopefully something different or new), and treat it as a hobby at first. I still have a job and doing KZread is something I do in my free time.

Death battle gets alot of things wrong an instance is the ben 10 vs green lantern

Thank you! I’ve been saying this for years!

The reason why the statement was made was because jiren was moving whike time was stopped for him hit was just trying to keep him there which didn’t work that’s why they said that he transcends time and this isn’t only in reference to time abilities as why would they even say it in the first place if that was the case

@Vary180

11 ай бұрын

google hyperbole hy·per·bo·le noun noun: hyperbole; plural noun: hyperboles exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

@emmanuelojurongbe2469

9 ай бұрын

I think the whole thing “he transcends time” is to hype people up

7:03 Just a quick correction, him entering another space Isn't a part of his timeskip. It's a secondary ability he can do during his timeskip. Like we were seen goku phasing trough hit, that wasn't his timeskip I still belive goku is beyond time BUT this video really has some valid points And to be clear i don't belive that goku is beyond time in traveling speed, but in combat speed And also to explain how timeskip exactly works, it is NOT stopping time. It's baisicly like diavolos king crimson ability time erase, like hit can skip/erase 10 seconds of time hit can do the same thing but only for .3 seconds Oh shit nvm forget this comment, i actually just understood this.

Thanks for telling me where to find this video? So then what do you power scale goku in the tiering system then?

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

Low Multiversal to Multiversal and MFTL+

@floreeze6971

Жыл бұрын

@@surfboneokay thanks and I am really confused on what space time continum means can I get a definition of that

So if the Clash isn’t able to be used for speed in your opinion, where would you place goku in speed, sense that’s the main thing I see used. Also the argument that Whiss would be slower because of what they themselves have shown, could also just explained away as they upscale regardless. I’d admit though I’m no dragonball scaler. Just interested in seeing the different opinions and all that

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

MFTL+, sometime in the future I want to make a video on precisely how high since I feel like the arguments have been lost to the times

@arrogantprince

Жыл бұрын

@@surfbone was looking more into how far into MFTl+ since that’s where I place him with the shockwave(to me the argument isn’t that the shockwaves are ki, it’s that In order for those shockwaves to be that fast they must have punched at that speed,which then you can argue for travel thanks to ki stuff I think) but I can wait, super interesting though to see something not like the common consensus Plus multipliers from the forms forgot to mention

@princelamar1735

Жыл бұрын

oh sh*t, sup bro. You're the wakfu dude from r/death battle matchups right?

@arrogantprince

Жыл бұрын

@@princelamar1735who are you? But yeah that’s me hopefully you only hear good things about me

@princelamar1735

Жыл бұрын

@@arrogantprince kinglamar1.

First and foremost I want to give you an applause for this video. Although i don't necessarily agree with the arguments, I cannot take away the from how well you organized and explained your point of view and as a whole. This will be long so ill most likely separate this into multiple comments. That being said here is my rebuttal. Infinite speed Goku: Your primary argument is that these shockwaves are not made of ki, therefore Goku and Beerus can not be directly scaled to them based on ki amplification, and that there is no evidence Goku can move as fast as the byproduct of his attack. For one an argument can be made that it was in fact ki being dispersed as it was not simply their punches creating the waves throughout the universe, as we see in the anime Goku and Beerus' push struggle between their Kamehameha and Destruction orb respectively were continuously releasing waves But even disregarding this and assuming that the waves were a byproduct of the collision of opposing momentum, the result is the same if not ironically more in favor of an infinite speed Goku. Considering goku and Beerus' fist are both moving objects with momentum, and they initially didn't have equal force of collision, the shockwaves would have to be the byproduct of loss energy. Because of this the byproduct would actually scale lower than the speed the their fist as it is excess energy loss from the differing forces and positioning of the collisons. This would go in line with Goku hitting Beerus with the exact same force and angle to cancel the attack, equating to a zero loss in energy to the environment. Regarding Whis, although we are given times for his speed, we know these are more so constant speeds that he chooses to travel with rather than his top speed by way of the Arale episode. Who's is typically stated to take 35 mins to reach Earth, yet in that exact episode the time it took for Beerus to smelled Bulma's ball, alert Whis, and whis to travel to earth was between the time frame after Goku started charging a Kamehameha and before releasing it, which should be from a couple seconds to a minute, with him explicitly stating that was the fastest he's every had to travel meaning most calcs for his speed are based on a constant he normally uses and therefore shouldnt be used a reference to downplay Goku's own speed. (Ironically this is the same episode where we find out Beerus and erase souls and gags don't affect him, making this episode a sort of "deity power scaling"). 2nd part to be released soon.....

So do you plan on doing ant Big Three videos(especially Naruto ones)? Want to see you scale them.

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

Naruto videos are Noodles’ thing mainly. So I would recommend checking out his channel. However, I do wanna do some videos on Chakra for example and maybe even tackle some of the terrible arguments made for it. Along with One Piece.

@user-ff6dl9zr7u

Жыл бұрын

@@surfbone Thanks, will be waiting for it. However, I'm very interested how do you scale Naruto God's tiers? Like, Solar system level from Kaguya or even higher?

@roywempor8395

3 ай бұрын

​@@user-ff6dl9zr7u kaguya made 3 planets, she's multi planetary

Great video man

The fact that an Angel said that Jiten transcended time (not a speed feat, merely a testament to his sheer power) is enough to know Goku is capable of negating most time effects. Even Goku Black was able to cut through a dimension with his sword, stating not even he knows the limits to his own strength in his new body.

@arkkon2740

Жыл бұрын

There's nothing saying he cut through an entire dimension, if anything he cut open a pocket dimension full of his own energy or something weird. That ability alone was never explained but people just roll with it

@kurtwynn1090

8 ай бұрын

All statement no feat lmao

@playerback7722

7 ай бұрын

.

@j-dawg4774

7 ай бұрын

@kurtwynn1090 Less of a statement, and more of a confirmation made by an Angel, who has been around for millions of years, and herself can also control time itself.

@kurtwynn1090

7 ай бұрын

@@j-dawg4774 By only being able to reverse it. There are hundreds of fictional characters out there who can reverse time, doesn't mean they transcend it lmao.

Even if you blindly negate the timeskip being a manipulation of time where hit stores time in small increments and freezes his opponents in time meaning moving in that timeskip is being above time and the time cage being a larger amount of time stored there is 1 thing you cant avoid. Jiren in every conceivable cannon guide and by vados herself is stated to be above time when he is supressed even before fighting goku. Goku would scale above this level of jiren later on in the tournament making him above time however he is faster than time far before that as the shockwaves were able to spread across the macrosm which at a lowball is 5D, goku still reacted to the shockwaves and the speed and energy of those shockwaves would logically be greater than the actuall shockwaves themselves. Maybe their travel speed is less than those shockwaves but their reaction aka combat speed is. Gokus combat speed was immeasurable when he fought beerus, when he fought hit and jiren verbatim

@brandonjeremyboydacsbr9173

11 ай бұрын

lmao vados never actually jiren was above time, she said that he had the POTENTIAL to surpass time. right before, jiren was frozen in time by hit's timeskip and then she says that

@zenkai4124

11 ай бұрын

@@brandonjeremyboydacsbr9173 no she blatantly sai he JIREN SURPASSES TIME not potential or any other word. He just surpasses time. End of story

@brandonjeremyboydacsbr9173

11 ай бұрын

@@zenkai4124 lmao, she literally said that he'll reach a point where he DOES surpass time: don't misintepret ur scans and nice copium

@zenkai4124

11 ай бұрын

@@brandonjeremyboydacsbr9173 she said jirens power surpassed time in the sub, dub and manga. Go watch the show and clear your ears out

@brandonjeremyboydacsbr9173

11 ай бұрын

@@zenkai4124 little boy, i watched the show SEVEN TIMES and she only said that he's surpassing time from her PERSPECTIVE: she never said he was surpassing time in ACTUALITY

to be honest the ones who claimed jiren being above time were angels, and angels control time to the point where they can even rewind it, so shouldn't they be the best source of info since they fully control time

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

But that’s not the point in which I made, interpreting the statements to meaning that the Angels were claiming he had Immeasurable Speed isn’t true. Since they never specified anything regarding his speed, only his power. In which he just broke out of a time related ability.

@TheKnight-nc7qn

Жыл бұрын

@@surfbone 🧐 but power = speed in db

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

@@TheKnight-nc7qn I plan on making a video on this, but this is one of the biggest misconceptions in the community. All Vegeta states is that when his battle power increases then he speed should logically also increase along with it. HOWEVER, people are assuming that this means speed and power increase by a 1 to 1 ratio. When it’s clear that the increase is unquantifiable and varies between characters. With many present ideas within the series contradicting that interpretation.

@TheKnight-nc7qn

Жыл бұрын

@@surfbone can't wait to watch it, i'll come prepared with questions so be ready

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

@@TheKnight-nc7qn of course! Thanks for being understanding

I might be a goku fan, but who the fuck said goku can surpass time? People be overhyping goku way too much 😂😂😂😂

@Somebeedude

Жыл бұрын

And “instant transmission” is an excuse? That’s crazy

@analysis_100

Жыл бұрын

Fake fan lol

@Somebeedude

Жыл бұрын

@@analysis_100 nahh trust the method They gonna think we less toxic He can manipulate and surpass time don’t tell them

@analysis_100

Жыл бұрын

@@Somebeedude No I'm not a liar like you. I stick to what shown in anime / manga. Goku is beyond time as said by Vados and he has other feats backing it up

@Somebeedude

Жыл бұрын

@@analysis_100 I’m not a liar I’m a manipulator

I think you totally forgot the fact that the literal time rings disappeared when the timeline also got erased not leaving any time in it no more and Zeno verbatim says “all of existence go away” 💀so it I didn’t have any time in it anymore

@FrostByte_06

Ай бұрын

Bro this yt video got debunked. Goku has immesurable speed

One question: if people in Dragon Ball have infinite speed, and Ki amplifies all physical attributes, wouldn't that mean that Goku also has infinite power, stamina, and complete invulnerability as a result? I mean, Ki is a physical amplifier, so if Goku's speed is infinite, wouldn't that mean that his Ki is infinite as well? That would mean that his opponents would somehow have to have MORE infinite power than Goku and his friends do, and that does NOT make any sense, since something being greater than infinity logically is impossible. That would mean that Goku by the end of the series should be beyond omnipotent in power, and THAT is physically impossible. That would mean that Goku is GOD, and everyone is beneath him in everything. WE would be kneeling before him, and if he asks for a fight, nobody would DARE accept his challenge, because whoever even TRIES would cease to exist from a tap from his FINGER! DO YOU KNOW HOW STUPID THAT LOGIC IS?! Instant Transmission would be pointless because his speed would make the technique useless.

@M1nndYouBusiness

11 ай бұрын

You're argument here doesn't make sense. There are things beyond infinity itself and there are different levels of infinity. Goku having an infinite amount of power doesn't scale him to omnipotence as hes still limited to the concept of dimensions. Goku would still get soloed by characters that are of a higher dimensional tier. You can have infinite amount of power in a 5D concept and get one shot by a 6D being. I'm not saying that I necessarily agree or disagree with goku being infinite speed/power but this argument is illogical.

@PerSon-xg3zr

10 ай бұрын

@@M1nndYouBusiness Yea the difference between dimensions is inaccessible which so far outclasses infinity so much it's not even funny.

@youngfish1370

10 ай бұрын

You do know there are higher sets of infinity. Instant transmission is for convenience

@michaelfr6290

9 ай бұрын

In DB strength=speed but speed doesnt = strength. Countable infinities are also a thing too.

@Anticap17

5 ай бұрын

​@@youngfish1370why does whis need time to travel to earth ?😂

8:50 So to put in a narrow perspective, Hit is an embodiment of the Double Glazed Fritters from Regular Show without the Sugary side effects. I'm gonna use this on somebody some day 😂

Goku good strong as a anime character but compared to comic he likes a fly

@pagalladka9809

Жыл бұрын

"Comics" if u aren't aware of those are more of a fodders

Question, what level do you think Goku is in main canon?

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

Low Multiversal to Multiversal and MFTL+

@havikrogers1801

Жыл бұрын

@@surfbone Alrighty then, thanks for the response.

@elijahbrooks6887

Жыл бұрын

​@@surfboneyou know what that's significantly better then people calling the bastard outerversal I'm not joking people actually say that

@WThroat

Жыл бұрын

@@elijahbrooks6887 the people that say that surfbone actively dodges in debates. surfbone is blatantly lying on this entire video like the hit timeskip one where he says hit isn't skipping through time and puts up an image of vados saying he skips through time.

@blue-12316

11 ай бұрын

Low multiversal

I think you are totally forgetting that goku was literally moving and reacting to hit while he was skipping through time 💀he wasn’t just predicting it as that’s why he needed to increase his speed

@tale7955

Жыл бұрын

"Time has stopped for everyone except for *you and me* " - Hit talking to some fodder who also reacted to him in time skip.

@Shadowsoldier222

Жыл бұрын

@@tale7955 he wasn’t skipping time in that time as he knew he could easily beat the guy but for goku he went all out and tried to timeskip 0.1seconds into the future but goku was able to move while he was doing this hats why he resisted to making it longer

@tale7955

Жыл бұрын

@@Shadowsoldier222 Uhm, no. He was skipping time, that's why nobody except them two could move. We're also told by Hit himself that he brings people into his dimension to be able to further use his abilities on them, like that time he slowed down Jiren. So, no, your argument is proven wrong by both the scene and the anime and manga.

@thelettucebarrel7784

Жыл бұрын

@@tale7955literally a different technique than time-skip. The time-skip does actually skip time and that skipped time is something Hit can store up for many of his other techniques, namely the dimension hopping ones.

@arkkon2740

Жыл бұрын

​@@thelettucebarrel7784So then why not just spam his main ability? The passage of time in that space is effectively stopped

May I please speak to you, Surfbone? I'm thinking of making a microtonal remix/mashup of part of your video here, and part of the theme to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Pick your favorite duration/clip(s)/speed ups for me, let me have permission, and I'll give you credit and link back to this video. I know I'm a super-duper mini channel at the time of asking. If you let me work my magic, however, I'll give you full-on credit. Even if you only let me have 0.1 seconds, I will be grateful for your contribution. You can leave in your voice or cut it out of the contribution. Your decision is part of my vision. So whatever you decide, I'll accept. That being said, I would like to know how charisma factors into power scaling. Do you recommend a video to watch for that? Thank you for reading this really really long comment. I know you didn't have to. If I don't make the remix you agree to by Christmas 2023, please don't hesitate to hound and bash me. I get very preoccupied but that is no excuse for weak presentation. I look forward to working with you. Or not. Either way, I like your channel.

I've debunked this so many times but people don't want to listen, they are literally in denial. Thank you for making a video about this, the Goku wank needs to STOP.

@Sinestro78

11 ай бұрын

His debunk is dogshit

@blue-12316

11 ай бұрын

exactly 💯 goku fanboys never learn.

@playerback7722

10 ай бұрын

Very true

@youngfish1370

10 ай бұрын

Someone’s mad Goku is him and no matter how many times he tries to debunk the series itself no one will listen cause the series>

this will definitely get algorithm boosted by comments

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

HE KNOWS

I've never understood how hit's timeskip worked until now, thanks lol

@godzillakingofthemonsters5812

Жыл бұрын

He lied

@GooberGlumbus

Жыл бұрын

@@godzillakingofthemonsters5812 how

@godzillakingofthemonsters5812

Жыл бұрын

@@GooberGlumbus He literally put the scans up explaining how it works and then made a bullshit narrative anyway. Hit's pocket dimension is created by the time he skips being stored up, both Vados and Whis explain this. If hit could not skip ahead into the future, he could not make this thing. kzread.info/dash/bejne/pGqorLurhpephZM.html This is explained in the fight with Jiren "Hit can hide in a separate space he created by the time he's skipped" So the idiot lied and you believed him, good job.

@GooberGlumbus

Жыл бұрын

@@godzillakingofthemonsters5812 you don't gotta be mean about it you know. Given he has a big reputation in the powerscaling community as well as having a well edited high quality video about the topic, It makes sense if I was inclined to believe it, especially considering I haven't heard a good explanation of how the ability generally worked before given its kinda confusing to me

@godzillakingofthemonsters5812

Жыл бұрын

@@GooberGlumbus He has a big reputation? Other than being an enemy of Seth and giving basic videos the most Surfbone is known for is his alleged criminal activity. The video has good editing, but the material is still full of blatant lies and crap. Covering it in a shiny wrapper doesn't change that.

You should've 100k sub

I know it’s non canon,but in the mecha cooler movie,they are fighting in between and reacting mid instant transmission,soooooo that that how you will

@isaaccuevas1717

Жыл бұрын

I do consider this infinite speed feat,we seen the technique let’s you go from point A to B instantly,and they fight in between this

@animoments8969

Жыл бұрын

The movies are more cannon to db gt

Bro got into a Goku debate and lost in the public's opinion. I can smell it.

@arkkon2740

Жыл бұрын

Whats the public opinion matter when the public also unionically says the time machine thing scales him higher?

@kindalucky

Жыл бұрын

@@arkkon2740 Losing in the public's opinion always makes people angry. Also, just from the way that you wrote that I'm gonna avoid speaking with you. I have better things to do right now.

@arkkon2740

Жыл бұрын

@@kindalucky This is literally the case. I've never seen people who try to scale goku this high NOT use the time machine, how do you not take that into account?

@kindalucky

Жыл бұрын

@@arkkon2740 I said nothing about the time machine, you did. Don't know how we got here but it happened and that's it. For any other character it's a definitive feat but for Goku it's always argued about, that's just Goku for you. Not allowed to actually have done any of the things he did. Shakes infinity, nope gotta have an argument about it. My comment had nothing to do with power scaling so idk where you even came from with this.

Afterlife humans are already irrelevant speed lmao what is this cope

Can you make a video on agenda scaling

I desperately need a scaling video between sonic and mario to end this fight debate!

@arkkon2740

Жыл бұрын

I've heard the consensus that Mario is physically stronger while Sonic is faster. As far as I know however, Mario hasn't gotten much media outside of games and its dubious if they are considered canon between 2d, 3d, paper and spin off marios. He has the capacity to beat his games with little to no damage so you might be able to count that as some form of feat

Bruh, still doesn't change the fact that Vados said "Jiren possesses power enough to transcend even time" no other context is needed. and when you say it's "Jiren's stregth and not his speed" Dragonball power increase boosts all stats not just power output. Goku being byond time just means: to triumph over the negative or restrictive aspects of : overcome. : to be prior to, beyond, and above Time it self. even in DB hero's (which isn't cannon) shows Goku in Ultra Instinct Vs Aios the Supreme Kai of Time and she literally has the power to manipulate and control time.

@kombatman8802

Жыл бұрын

Another stupid fanboy that ignores all context and wanks statements.

5:28 shockwaves is also just molecules pushed by the explosion. Syn Shenron's was able to run away from Goku's explosion a bit and Goku was also able to run away from Freeza's explosion in the Paralysing Death Ball. In Dragon Ball Goku was able to run away from Piccolo's Ki blast as well.

@CanineLupus0114

Жыл бұрын

but we didn't see him ran away from that shockwave with beerus tho, CONTEXT

Er uhm actually he is Let's delve into the mathematical intricacies of quantifying the power generated from Goku's punches, considering the principles we've explored in classical mechanics, quantum physics, and general relativity. 1. **Hamiltonian Dynamics and Universe Destruction:** The power (\(P\)) generated from Goku's punch, contributing to universe destruction, can be linked to the change in kinetic energy: \[ P = \frac{\Delta KE}{\Delta t}, \] where \(KE\) is the kinetic energy associated with the punch's velocity, and \(\Delta t\) represents the time over which the punch is delivered. This aligns with Hamiltonian dynamics, where the punch's energy is intricately linked to the evolution of the universe's quantum state. 2. **Relativistic Dynamics and Speed Beyond Time Skip:** Incorporating the relativistic dynamic equation (\(F = \frac{d}{dt}(\gamma m v)\)), the power exerted by Goku's punch becomes: \[ P = Fv = \frac{d}{dt}(\gamma m v)v. \] This formulation considers the evolving relativistic mass (\(\gamma m\)) and velocity (\(v\)), illustrating the dynamic interplay that contributes to the punch's power. 3. **String Theory and Dimension-Shattering:** The power associated with Goku's punch, shattering dimensions, involves the vibrational modes of strings (\(N\)) and the string tension (\(\tau\)): \[ P = N\hbar\omega = \frac{\tau}{2\pi\alpha'}\int d\sigma \, (\partial_t X \partial_t X + \partial_x X \partial_x X), \] where \(X\) represents the spatial coordinates of the string. This equation relates the punch's power to the vibrational dynamics intrinsic to the dimension-shattering event. 4. **General Relativity and Survival within a Singularity:** Power considerations within the gravitational field near a singularity (\(P = \frac{dE}{dt}\)) involve the Schwarzschild metric and the energy-momentum tensor: \[ P = -\frac{d(Mc^2)}{dt} = -\frac{d}{dt}\int dV \sqrt{-g} T^{00}. \] Here, \(M\) is the mass of the singularity, \(c\) is the speed of light, \(g\) is the determinant of the metric, and \(T^{00}\) represents the energy density. 5. **Quantum Superposition in Infinite Dimensional Shaking:** Quantifying the power from Goku's punch, shaking an infinite dimension, incorporates the probability density (\( ho\)) associated with the wave function (\(\Psi\)): \[ P = \frac{\hbar}{2m}\Im\left(\Psi^*\frac{\partial\Psi}{\partial x} ight). \] This expression relates the power generated by the punch to the imaginary part of the derivative of the wave function, reflecting the probabilistic nature of the quantum superposition. 6. **Quantum Tunneling in Battle Dynamics:** The power associated with Goku's punch during battle dynamics, considering quantum tunneling, intertwines with the uncertainty principle: \[ P \Delta t \geq \frac{\hbar}{2}. \] This inequality reflects the inherent uncertainty in the power and time parameters, offering insight into the probabilistic nature of Goku's punches during intense combat. 7. **Quantum Coherence in Galaxy Creation and Absorption:** Calculating the power generated during the creation and absorption of a galaxy involves the coherent state (\(\ket{\phi}\)) and the density matrix (\( ho\)): \[ P = \Tr\left( ho \frac{d\hat{H}}{dt} ight). \] Here, \(\hat{H}\) represents the Hamiltonian operator associated with the galactic transformation, and \(\Tr\) denotes the trace operation. These mathematical formulations, drawing from various realms of physics, provide a nuanced understanding of the power generated by Goku's punches. The equations encapsulate the diverse physical principles that converge in the fantastical realm of Dragon Ball.

so goku can die if a character use king crimson or the world?

@saadsami8860

Жыл бұрын

It's still beyond time, it's just no faster than time So no

Yeah i agree for the most part. Being above time as an individual and having power or strength that allows you to be unaffected by such a concept to a certain degree is different. Hits time abilities are explained to us so many different ways. Between the anime and manga, it was said he can stop Time, skip time and slow down someone's time. With Jiren he did all 3. As for IT, Goku using his fingers to do it is just a visual representation for the audience. Since they move at super speed already we wouldn't know if he is using IT unless in most cases he puts his finger on his head. When Goku fought Gas across the universe, he showed he was able to use IT more effectively. Until Goku perfects UI a little more, he would not be able to CONSTANTLY move at "instantaneous explosive speeds" as was implied by Vegeta and Whis in the recent chapter of Super. When granola kept useing IT to attack Goku blue at one point, he was able to still move and shift his body to avoid granola hitting his organs and vital points. This was said to be due to UI properties.

@Price_keir

Жыл бұрын

Don't forget go into the future manga thing

@CKT47

Жыл бұрын

In the anime, it is also stated that hit doesn’t actually “skip” time. He just takes you to a separate dimension where time moves differently than the real world, like ROSAT

@Price_keir

Жыл бұрын

@@CKT47 there are many ways the hits abilities have been described but guide books state that he literally goes into the future

@CKT47

Жыл бұрын

@@Price_keir Guidebooks also say that lord boros is star level. The original source is best

@Price_keir

Жыл бұрын

@@CKT47 yeah there where many sources for the star cannon like star level the planet surface the planet level. But the thing with hit is that it would make sense that the 1000years he has been alive he would have many different abilities like the time prison(time lag I think it was called) time skip (go 0.1 seconds into the future and that can increase). What I mean is that it's not a limited ability for example time stop in JoJo does exactly what the name implies but that's it. But guldo time stop can stop everything and can stop just one person giving it some versatility.

Don't worry Goku will reach time eventually it's Dragon Ball continues to exist and make more manga and keep doing this Goku will be able to surpass multiple powerful anime characters like rimuru after all saiyans have no limits (I know this sounds like a Goku stan but just think about it if the series still continues and making Goku Vegeta grow stronger and keep doing it eventually they will surpass but if not and they just ended it eventually like in two or three years then oh well I guess we won't see them becoming stronger than the other anime characters)

@animoments8969

Жыл бұрын

Nah the reason why I dont think goku will get any more feats is because you have to think about the aurthers that write these. The dont know exacly how to make a character stronger besides adding multipliers and new transformations. They dont know about all these speed tiers they dont know about plutonic concepts. The manga unlike the anime has abandoned the idea of goku affecting the macrocosm. Theyve probably forgotten most gokus feats anyway

@anthony_universe2920

Жыл бұрын

@@animoments8969 it doesn't always have to be that way the Creator is getting old and eventually he's going to pass the torch to someone that will keep Dragon Ball alive if he doesn't want to end just yet if we could just get someone that will recognize about Goku his Feats and strength then it is still possible to see Goku grow but that's in the future we'll see what will happen right now all we can just use this non-canon Dragon Ball characters like vegito the god killer from ARJ

@TheEmperorRaidou

Жыл бұрын

​@@anthony_universe2920nice cope bro

@anthony_universe2920

Жыл бұрын

@@TheEmperorRaidou huh?

@Bleeperblopper497

11 ай бұрын

@@anthony_universe2920 exactly as he said, sounds to me like you're just "coping" pretty sure Toriyama will let Dragon Ball Super end on his own terms and not even bother with any of these complex power escalations

Whatever he does, he dies

Surfbone where would you then scale Goku's speed?

@arkkon2740

Жыл бұрын

I saw the stream and he and others said the MFTL range. This isn't including the games, heroes or filler, and you can argue different speeds between the anime and manga too

Welp ...that was ..absolutely.. WORTH THE WAIT!! After years of seeing these feats and statements be misused and overhyped i must say i am happy to see abit of common sense Great video!

Zamasu's erasure also erased the time ring IIRC, which would constitute the erasure of time

@arkkon2740

Жыл бұрын

You can also interpret at the stopping of the timeline instead of its destruction. That timeline is connected to all of the others, destroying that timeline would probably break the other green rings instead of just the one

@Vary180

11 ай бұрын

the way i see it, he erased the "container" that contains the universe/timeline, or the 4D spacetime, a universal feat, but not the concept of time itself, as if he did that, ALL timelines would disappear, including the main timeline that goku came from. don't get why people are struggling to understand this one, even surfbone kinda messed up in the video by saying he only erased the contents and not the container itself, but he definitely destroyed the container or the "memory card" too, it's just that the "concept of time" goes beyond that single memory card, simple as that. same when he erased the other universes in the tournament of power, his feats are universal+/low multiversal.

@OverlyEpux

11 ай бұрын

@@arkkon2740 You can, if you want to reach and go against the obvious intent of the author.

@OverlyEpux

11 ай бұрын

@@Vary180 > It would destroy every timeline if he erased one Citation needed

@arkkon2740

11 ай бұрын

@@OverlyEpux The intent of the author is ambiguous at best. If you wanted to go with intent of the author, then you also have to assume he planned on having a time machine be able to go back to a point in time that doesn't exist

6:14 Unless you consider the universe to be infinite as has been stated(it has also been stated to be infinite galaxies divided into 4 quadrants) but they could just mean very great.

That part about him traveling to the exact same spot as the previous rift is wrong his influence was so strong he made his own rift as the one zamasu made is not the same as blacks even looking at the position its not the same when black got dragged his rift closed and never once did he make another rift with the time ring. Even then the ring must make 2 rifts one for someone to enter and one to exit. The exit closed in the main timeline and the entrance also closed and he never made another entrance and even if he could down the line trunks was keeping that from happening thats why he stayed why would he follow goku and leave black/zamasu on their own when they simply could follow them so someone had to stop them from doing just that that's the context of him stayed behind. Now we have that out of they way the are no entrances or exits if there was others we would know cause that be made a priority to guard or watch over incase black/ zamasu gave trunks the slip since it could happen since its a 2v1 but this wasn't made apparent so this doesn't apply. And zamasu was made immortal. But since it by super shenron who wish cabablitlties is boundless or only as strong as it creator gave zamasu immorality that he was basically invincible. Ok now cell won't age and would live forever and had immortal life, but was killed by complete annihilation and nothing was left gohan killed an immortal. Kid buu was alive since the creation of the universe the very concept of evil. Byt was he killed. spirit bomb that can raise your power infinitly or by infinity kills those who are evil and completely annihilated buu the very concept of evil and immortal in the sense can't age and body will comeback from anything even the smallest cell or possibly smaller. Another immortal dead by conceptually removing the very evil that he is and thus was killed. But zamasus immortality was given by a dragon who can reverse being completely erased from history you are nothing meaning he can grant immortality on a very high and literal level even when his physical body was completely destroyed cells( and time ring included) everything.That didn't kill him like it usually kill your immortal villain in DB by over powering them and complete annihilation. Then he became the very universe so where did he go? Annother parallel universe, where he opened his own rift to and didn't use the same one black used its even confirmed by chi chi and krillin and the anime itself. When his influence begins to spread everyone is scared as they are confused as another rift forms in front of them and he face doesn't appear high in the sky like the other rift created by blacks ring no his on was at eye level and krillin says 'Its LIKE the one black used' (paraphrased abit) meaning in the context like means simlar and not the exact same so this a another SIMILAR rift that black used in the past. And the speed aspect i agree can strange for his case but could also be irrelevant as well as screw the laws im going to an entire parallel world to spread my influence but again the speed at which people in dragon ball is drastically slower that what is happening for them and we see evidence of this in the buu saga and vegito and buuhan are fighting at very high speed but for everyone else including us the watchers they are standing completely still and slowly we are getting shown whats actually happening so an Earth shattering fight could be going on but to onlookers you see to people standing completely still but shit is blowing up around you and you don't know why.

Yh a ten times increase ( a finite multiplier ) gives Goku infinite or higher speeds totally possible!

@TruePoseidon

Жыл бұрын

Power levels in dragon ball are nonlinear, using scientific mathematical values is stupid as a 10 times increase is astronomical. An average human has a power level of 5 yet all it takes is a power level of 200 to destroy the moon. The numbers work on a nonlinear fashion.

@myusername3689

Жыл бұрын

@@TruePoseidonexponential is not infinite

@TruePoseidon

Жыл бұрын

@@myusername3689 Its was also stated in an official magazine that certain transformations such as super saiyan God are transcendental.

@TruePoseidon

Жыл бұрын

@@myusername3689 You don't even understand the concept of infinity and here you are talking about "Infinite". The power level system in dragon ball is fixed and nonlinear, after achieving a certain level of power your power becomes transcendental and the peak is infinitely larger as opposed to the previous power level, its why power levels stopped becoming a thing after the namek saga, during that time super saiyan was also considered a transcendental power. One example is Frieza, who also stated to have completely transcended the realm of super saiyan God. each time their power level goes up by a few digits its considered transcendental, the same thing with the T.O.P and recent manga updates. Beerus was also stated in another official magazine to have power beyond dimensionality.

It's too trash i can rebunk this easily😭

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

Note for anyone, if your opponent ever uses the term “rebunk” to describe a rebuttal, you automatically have a free pass to not care because of the cringe overload Lol

@SlenderLuchito

Жыл бұрын

​@@surfbone you just used based language

@TrashmanCZ

Жыл бұрын

Alright. Do it. Go ahead. Make a video debunking this video.

W video

W vid

In manga they are. Heck even Goku Ki extends in seconds throught at minimal multiple Space-time and literally is stated Zamasu could destroy all parallel worlds of the manga. And yeah, Zeno-sama was a conceptual erasure of that, as is showed in the manga how the "Time" Ring Itself that represents the event of the "Time machine" being also completly erased from the world even when those rings are completly atemporal. So the Slot had been erased obligatory with Zeno-sama. With also Whiss stating Trunks that the parallel world of Trunks was completly erased from existance and was no more, including Zeno-sama Realm that Trancends dimensionaly the 12 universes Yeah, this things completly contradict all the video on manga and debunk it but Good video anyway. Also in the manga is just white nothingness like manga panels what remains. This if we don't go with the direct statement of the Other World being 5D or the Dimension of Light transcending laws of physics and being an atemporal dimension.

@ButtonZBruh

Жыл бұрын

Chapter and page of the statement of Zamasu being capable of destroying all parallel worlds?

@user153xhzbso8e

Жыл бұрын

Funny enough, without context that Goku moved through the void via speed then all he will get is just Temporal Resistance. Good counter argument tho.

@antoinepolnareff8970

Жыл бұрын

@@ButtonZBruh Literalmente when he becomed dozens of copies in the manga. Goku talks with Shin and Gowasu and they state he could destroy all parallel worlds if he wasn't stopped

@antoinepolnareff8970

Жыл бұрын

@@user153xhzbso8e Void with no time is literally inaccesible Speed and still Gogeta Supersaiyan moves in a timeless dimension that transcend all laws of physics

@ButtonZBruh

Жыл бұрын

@@antoinepolnareff8970 There's no implication that the space that Gogeta and Broly fought in has no time

It also wouldnt make sense for Goku to still be using instant transmission after these immeasurable "feats" have taken place. What's the point of teleporting if you're faster than teleportation?

@Spookgeta

Жыл бұрын

Isn't that the case nothing isn't faster than instant movement unless you are using instant movement technique yourself that is faster than that person's instant movement

@ButtonZBruh

Жыл бұрын

@@Spookgeta I read that three times and I still don't know what you're trying to say

@Spookgeta

Жыл бұрын

@@ButtonZBruh okay okay granola uses instant transmission which was faster than gokus instant transmission since granola is stronger than goku. instant transmission is a Technique that allows you to instantly move to point A to point B. when goku showed the Z fighters and bulma in others the Technique for the first time vegeta said it was just fast movement speed but he realized when goku went to roshies house grab his glasses in back vegeta was surprised

@ButtonZBruh

Жыл бұрын

@@Spookgeta Granola used a technique that activates faster than instant transmission, it's not faster than the actual teleportation

@Spookgeta

Жыл бұрын

@@ButtonZBruh or like in a cooler movie goku vs metal cooler goku uses instant transmission and metal cooler was keeping up with him using the same Technique and it was said they both was moving faster than Linear time itself

So there's essentially a time dilation

The only eay i see goku with inf speed or immeasurable is by combat or reaction, travel its just crazy, but on the anime filler goku have inf speed and i think that's fair for goku 🤷‍♂️

debate with drip_sauce on this , plz dont duck him 💀

@ynorb9573

Жыл бұрын

Drip sauce is a literal idiot who makes fake scans to prove his point and he uses board games to prove shit 💀

@pagalladka9809

Жыл бұрын

​@@ynorb9573maybe provide me substantial evidence that he uses fake scans?

@ynorb9573

Жыл бұрын

​@@pagalladka9809he blatantly just did make fake scans 😭😊

@Davidutul

Жыл бұрын

Nobody wants to debate a person that calls you stupid or dumb or whatever rude thing with every chance in every sentence possible

@Davidutul

Жыл бұрын

Also his debunking video can be debunked in one comment

You are 100% correct that Goku does not have infinite, inaccessible, or immeasurable speed. He actually has irrelevant spee-

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

*sweats profusely*

@faisali.chowdhiry821

Жыл бұрын

​@@surfbonehey surf there's a new goku scale that actually does scale him to boundless

@user153xhzbso8e

Жыл бұрын

​@faisali.chowdhiry821 Let me guess "mathematics was said to apply to DB therefore Mahlo Cardinal exists and as such they're Boundless even tho they have no dimensional context☝️🤓" Right?

@faisali.chowdhiry821

Жыл бұрын

@@user153xhzbso8e 🤓 Not that one

@user153xhzbso8e

Жыл бұрын

@@faisali.chowdhiry821 Do quote it to me then since I haven't seen any other one, I'm hoping thay this one is good.

I don't think I'm convinced on that Zeno one.

By the way, Drip_Sauce made a video debunking you about Goku's scaling. Will you make a response video to him?

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

Probably not, and if I do it will not be on my channel unless I got paid (because I don’t wanna watch it). He already tried to raid my server not too long ago after my video posted cause it pissed him off. And I already made a long community tab on why I don’t support him as a creator. I gain nothing from reacting to him, and I’m sure people in this comment section have made better counter arguments than he has in video Lmao

@lemon2235

Жыл бұрын

@@surfbone ok

@arkkon2740

Жыл бұрын

​​@@surfbone*Well that was a fuckin lie* 🗿 Nvm he got paid like 100 bucks i forgot about that shit 💀

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

@@arkkon2740 Yup, hope y’all are happy now

Uhhh no goku was able to move in the otherworld which has king yemma realm heaven and hell the kaioshins realm and their heaven transcends over dimensionality Being transcended over dimensionality means your unbounded by space and time Goku even destroyed the macronism which contains no concept of time and since it has no time it has no space

@shinkai6298

Жыл бұрын

Dont believe me- kzread.info/dash/bejne/lnZouqqogd3Nhdo.html Also goku was moving inside the otherworld heaven after being killed by piccolo along with radits Also you didnt explained all how ki works

@BeerusLord

Жыл бұрын

kzread.infowmYsFf33nz0?feature=share Yes this is also a scaling of the htc The htc denies the concepts of time and space goku and gohan was able to train and move in there this vid also explains why goku is beyond time

@arkkon2740

Жыл бұрын

So a room specifically made to immensely progress in time related gains somehow makes the characters beyond time? Piccolo beyond time? 💀

@BeerusLord

Жыл бұрын

@@arkkon2740 bruh u realize the daishenzu stated that the afterlife/otherworld is a world that has no concept of time meaning everything in there is a non physical realm, its heavens transcends dimensionally goku is able to destroy the entire universe 7 since when goku and beerus fought they did a punch clash making a shockwave which was seen in the kaioshin realm which is one of the upper part of the otherworld/afterlife. The otherworld/afterlife is the otherhalf of universe 7 like who is there on earth or in space is the lower halfof the universe 7 the upper half is the otherworld/afterlife which has no concept of time and space meaning that everything you see even the objects r actually non -physical the hell is the lowest part of the otherworld the staff stated that the otherworld's hell is beyond space and time the hell would be complex multi but since its inside the afterlife which is a non physical realm the hell would be non physical and have no concept of time and space since its connected/inside the otherworld which is non physical/has no concept of time and space

@BeerusLord

Жыл бұрын

@@arkkon2740 as a matter of fact this video which is a trash debunk was debunked 2 times have a good day Read db daishenzu before tryna do a trash debunk of db

Without giving you even a second I'm only here to tell you why your wrong. Goku broke Hit's time cage by powering up. This isn't a opinion its a fact hate to burst your dbz hate bubble. Super Buu broke through a chamber that's timeless by powering up a character goku has surpassed by millions of times. Goku shook a infinite void. Gogeta crossed over deminsions and shattered them out of existence. That same gogeta goku is probably close to in base at this point. Another major flaw in your logic is how time works in dbz vs. Marvel and DC. In marvel and DC you can go back in time seconds and change things. In dbz this is not possible. Time works parallel in dbz NOT forward and backward. When trunks altered the past it didn't alter his future it created a NEW time line. This means flash could go back in time and kill a Goku but he couldn't kill THE Goku he was currently fighting. There's more flaws to your argument but this is enough. It's okay we all know goku isn't the strongest character in fiction but ya'll haters try wayyyyy to hard to make up fake downplays.

@surfbone

Жыл бұрын

So you didn’t even watch my video and just accused me of being a Goku hater based off nothing. Says a lot about you Lol

@tornadoknight3996

Жыл бұрын

Your title of goku is "NOT beyond time" when he clearly gives the middle finger to time multiple times. Naw don't need too.

@havikrogers1801

Жыл бұрын

​@@tornadoknight3996That's a bad reason to just skip his video because you don't agree with a random person's opinion.

@tornadoknight3996

Жыл бұрын

It's not a opinion its a downplay of a character based on his own personal bias against goku. Goku has multiple feats that put him above "time." Opinions are more like favorites. You don't get to choose which part of a author's writing you want to use.

@havikrogers1801

Жыл бұрын

@tornadoknight3996 OK, but the fact that you aren't hearing why he thinks this and just ignore the video entirely is really dumb.

lol if time wizard is beyond time with only half a chance of it's effect popping off, then so is judgment dragon and any other monster capable of destroying the entire monster zone

I'm not shocked u didn't bring feats from dbz

@surfbone

Ай бұрын

What are you talking about Lol