I used to love playing this game for years when I was a kid, and even just pulled it out of the closet so I can get it up and running again. I can remember the two different box variations very well, and maybe this will answer your question about the differences. The classic one (125th in a vertical box) came out in 1988 and was in local game and hobby stores near my part of NY just prior to the 125th anniversary of the battle. Later that summer and for the next couple of years I would see that version everywhere (including at the NPS stores at the battlefield). My version still has the booklet to order extra parts, with a price list updated in August 1989...so this edition was still being produced as of that time. Around the time that the 125th Anniversary of all the battles was coming to a close (late 1990 through early 1991) is when I started to see the "Smithsonian" edition pop up in stores...though I only ever saw that version for sale through the actual NPS stores at Gettysburg itself. So it seems the vertical edition was out for a couple of years before it was replaced by the horizontal edition...I have no idea when production stopped. I had not idea that so many other rules variants came out to make this game so much more playable. It makes me want to get my hands on them all and even get into tournament play.

Many years ago, I was touring the Wilson's Creek battlefield walking along one of the various footpaths. The trail was a little tricky so I had to watch where I was stepping so I wouldn't trip. As i was walking and glancing down, I noticed a rectangular blue shape. I bent down and picked it up and I was quite surprised to see it was one of the Union divisions from this game. I recognized it right away because I owned a copy of the game. I've often wondered how that piece ended up where I found it. One of life's little mysteries. Thanks for another enjoyable overview, Gilbert.

@XLEGION1

7 жыл бұрын

Wow! That is a story Patrick. Some of my stories concerning individual counters are a bit more mundane. I remember finding the "Pickett" counter for 1964 Gettysburg under our Dining Room Table one day and just shudder to think what could have happened had my mom vaacumed in there that day.

NOTE: I made an error concerning the "Hill" combat modifier. There is a +2 given to the defender if he is on a hill and the attacker is not on the same hill.

I played this one quite a bit back when it came out, very fun game. I love watching your videos on Gettysburg, and the ACW! Good stuff!

There's a very easy fix to the dice swing. I would use a D10 when the combat value is above a certain threshold and a D6 when it's below another one. That'd fix a lot of these impossible situations keeping the game solid on its better aspects.

Any Gettysburg game, simple or not, without command restrictions will give the CSA a big advantage on the first day. Taking Cemetery Hill becomes very "practicable" with player omniscience and 20/20 hindsight--I'm sure you would agree. I hope you continue this fine video series and take a look at the more recent titles. Well done!

Wow Gil - you are really into Gettysburg games lately. :-)I believe this is the one I actually played a good deal of as a teenager. I have fond memories of it but could never quite grasp how to win as the Confederates. I still have it (and the 1977 Avalon Hill game) in my collection.

@producerjjones9976

4 жыл бұрын

Union players be like: It's over anakin. I have the high ground.

Gilbert -- I loved this video. You are forthright, plainspoken, talking to us "semi-non-regular-seldom" gamers in plain language. I love Gettysburg, having visited 13 times, and a student of the battle. I Own GB '77 and this GB '88 version, in addition to Columbia Games' "Badges of Courage" using blocks/fog of war. They sit in the box, I can't get family to play. nevertheless, your video gives me hope I can get a couple of hours across the table with my brother and have at it. You broke down the rules well, and cleared up some things, too. Thank you for that. Many points you made were spot on to what I discovered when I first bought this game the year it was released, from the Smithsonian museum store in WDC -- Division stacking into "killer stacks" is way off the scale given the hex areas, and the movement is goofy, like you said. Battle modifiers help -- in fact when I play I am definitely going to employ the "alternate rules" you pointed out in The General -- they add much-needed realism to movement, artillery, etc. Great suggestion! I missed the whole artillery shortage thing for the CSA until I heard you mention it here. Great point! All in all, I found your style to be very clear, a great teaching model. I'm curious -- what do you think of Badges of Courage?

@XLEGION1

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the kind words. This game was never 'what I wanted it to be'. It is still a favourite at WBC but I have never understood why, except for the fact that it is 'easy' to play and quick. I am much enamoured by the new game "Battle Hymn Vol 1" which features "Gettysburg" and "Pea Ridge". But even this one, now that I have played it a few times, has a few warts on it. It comes very close to what I'm looking for though.

as usual great job

I genuinely enjoy your analyses of war games, as I missed Avalon Hill's golden age and so much of this now appeals to me. I'm curious if there is a more historically-accurate Gettysburg game that succeeds at reflecting the historical situation while maintaining a degree of simplicity similar to this game? Or is it just a trade-off, where you either accept the inaccuracies or move up to a more accurate, more advanced/involved game? Thank you.

@douglaspearson1647

7 жыл бұрын

Victory Games Across 5 Aprils has a Gettysburg game in it that I think is pretty accurate. A friend and I played it and without trying it developed like what happened. Except the game ended on day 2. He as the Confederate took Little Round Top, I Kicked him off, He kicked me off and I could not get enough troops in time by the end of the day to retake it. I was the best game of Gettysburg I have ever played. The game uses chit pull for units that can take action that turn, 5 scenarios but out of print. At one time they were going to make a companion game. Fun Game

Hey Gilbert, it was good seeing you again at the WBC. As you allude in your video, the WBC tournament for this game has modified the Order of Appearance. These changes, which affect only units entering play on July 1st , may address some of the concerns you expressed. Even though Gettysburg '88 was released as an introductory game, as you rightly point out, the fact that it's still being played almost thirty years later by some very competitive gamers is a tribute to its design. The OoA changes: On July 1st the first five Confederate groups have their entrance delayed by one turn. For example, Heth and Pegram enter play on Turn 3 instead of Turn 2. Only the last group, Hood and McLaws, enter play per the OoA chart (Turn 8). For the Union the first three groups are similarly delayed. Thus Wadsworth, Gamble, and Devin enter play on Turn 2 instead of starting on map. Hope this helps.

@XLEGION1

7 жыл бұрын

Hello Kenneth. Nice to finally meet you. I was aware of the OOB changes. I will have to take a look at them again. If I recall correctly though, they still 'didn't get it quite right' and I felt that the changes were more made to effect 'game balance' rather than history. That bothers me. I fully believe that a 'simple game' can still be historically correct. My main concern is the arrival of Johnson's Division and to a lesser extent Anderson. This isn't rocket science. The Gettysburg Battlefield Markers are down to the brigade level and the information is all there. I want to contact Ed Menzel about proposed changes but at this point, I'm pretty sure it will be a waste of time as far as the tournament goes. But I want to play a game that is historically accurate so I will probably end up doing my own Order of Battle.

@kennethnied5242

7 жыл бұрын

We actually met a couple of years ago in Lancaster at the For The People tournament. You can present your proposals to Ed and see what happens. Ed himself has been very open to changes for other games, though I suspect that the default scenario will remain the same -- lot of gamers are reluctant to abandon their cherished strategies. You would need a lot of playings of any revised scenario to see how it affects play balance before it could be adopted.

I bought the Smithsonian edition at the Gettysburg park. Maybe they had some deal w/ the park service or something.

@stopspammandm

Жыл бұрын

I got mine there too. I think that had something to do with it.

That little battle manual is Old-School Goodness. They don't put stuff like that into games anymore. I think the map could be cleaner, especially in regard to roads. Beside the point you made about the railroad and road hexes, there are also a number of hexes that have more than one road going in the same direction, or even dead-end roads, none of which have any effect on the functionality of the game. I'm a big believer that nothing belongs on a mapboard unless it serves a game function, but this too is something where the nod was given to aesthetics over function, due to it being an introductory game.

Great job on your video. You are plainspoken and honest - love that. I got this game along time ago at the Smithsonian gift shop while on a sales trip to WDC. I am a ACW historian/hobbyist and had been to the battlefield earlier in the trip. I like this game but I like it better with the revised rules and Order of Appearance. I also have "They met at Gettysburg" game that has "areas' as opposed to hexes. I love that. Have you played it? Your opinions on it please? Thank you.

I have the Smithsonian edition and not read any tweaks, but what if you gave cavalry the option to retreat 2 hex's before combat provided it was not being attacked by other cavalry. Second when a division is being attacked by a cavalry it can only lose 1 step per turn. BTW my favorite game of Gettysburg is Across 5 Aprils.

This is one of my favorite games, I recently purchased a new copy to replace my old one which got misplaced. I am struggling to find anywhere to download (for free or for purchase) the East cavalry field extension. Does anyone know where I can find it?

Enjoyed this one a lot back in the day, but we never played without using the additional rules that came the General magazine. Think it was the issue that featured the GB88 art on the cover. Intermediate Gettysburg? Definitely improved the game and the realism a bit. I have the Smithsonian game which as you observed is basically the same game, but came in one of the much larger and deeper "Smithsonian" style boxes. The A5A game was much better, but the Gettysburg game still just never quite worked with that system IMHO although I'm sure it could if they ever revisit it with a new edition. Wouldn't mind see a version of GB from the Glory system some day although it seems pretty moribund at present.

What is the best Gettysburg game that you have played?

@XLEGION1

6 жыл бұрын

I fear that question is to general for me to give an adequate reply. Do you mean Strategic, Operational, Tactical? The whole battle or just sections etc....I'm very anxious to try the board game version of this new one by Eric Lee Smith. For past titles I did like "Gettysburg: Lee's Greatest Gamble" and "High Tide of the Confederacy" the best. These were both one map games and could be played in about 4 hours or so and DID cover the entire battle.

An additional question -- which turn would you move Anderson to then -- the one following the printed one, like make up a turn 7 for him? Looking to take my sharpie and make the change!

@XLEGION1

4 жыл бұрын

The arrival of Anderson's division is always a 'tough call'. This is because of Robert E. Lee's stance on its arrival. It WAS near Marsh Creek, near Herr's Ridge, by early afternoon. But Lee more or less ordered it to 'stand down' and rest. Therefore any game designer has a tough decision on this one. In a simple game like "Gettysburg 1988" if he arrives, he arrives and that's it. But it doesn't really simulated the actual situation that Lee faced. Lee held it for a reason. These reasons don't apply in a simple game that has no command rules. So who is really right? For my part, I like to simulate what Lee faced but that is another question all together.

@chsgrad75

4 жыл бұрын

@@XLEGION1 thanks for your quick reply. Did you see my other question from last night? (below). Love your style on these videos.

@XLEGION1

4 жыл бұрын

@@chsgrad75 Your other question does not appear on the you tube page for me.

Nevermind, see that you mentioned the rules from the General & the various player optionals..

I guess i was thinking about the whole Battle including all units.

There's another Gettysburg game from some decades ago that I recall enjoying and that's "Pickett's Charge" published by Yaquinto Games (early 1980s?). It used basically the same system as their two Napoleonic titles "The Thin Red Line" (Waterloo), and "The Great Redoubt" (Borodino). Graphically, the maps were pretty bland, but the counters were fairly colorful as well as fairly thick and, in most cases, large (typical infantry brigade was something like .5" x .75") I own all three games and I've thought about redoing the maps but I don't see that happening any time soon. Are you familiar with these, Gilbert?

@XLEGION1

7 жыл бұрын

I am familiar with "Picket's Charge", as a 'review' copy was given to me by Keith Poulter himself. The short article appeared in the "Wargamer" #15 but I was not too enamoured with the game itself. I agree, that it had one of the ugliest Gettysburg maps that I had ever seen. And, those gigantic hexes!!! I remember the road network looked like a bunch of squashed worms. Of course, I didn't keep it and I doubt if very many people remember it today.

@PHLewis1956ye1q9

7 жыл бұрын

I guess I was being more than generous when I called the map "bland." It is ugly with a capital U, to be sure. I really don't mind the big hexes; they're scaled at 500 yards across, as I recall. Along with the big hexes, the units have proportionately small movement rates with a typical infantry brigade having 3 movement points. The combination of the hex size and movement rates meant that you didn't spend a lot of time counting hexes and tracing paths as each unit was moved and I kind of liked that. I also remember that the game could be quite complex once you added in all of the advanced rules. I may have to see if I can find the game (it's somewhere in my over-packed game closet) and look it over again.

They went to different packaging because of people who collect the game. A true collector will want every one that came out. I had at least six different Monopoly games different pieces different money but it was all the same game and I just wound up giving them all away except for one. Just my two cents.

While you're doing a Gettysburg series, don't forget there's a GBurg in Across 5 Aprils. The maps about the same size, but it's a very different game than this. Better art on the box too. ;)

@XLEGION1

7 жыл бұрын

I hear a lot of good things about that particular Gettysburg game. Unfortunately I don't have a copy. I understand the designer is working on a new edition which I think will be called "Battle Hymn" or something like that. Rick Barber is familiar with it.

@fredfinkenbinder6245

7 жыл бұрын

I have Across 5 Aprils as well! Another game that I played a bit as a teenager/young adult. I have the first edition. I recall Gettysburg being the best of the 5 games in that set.

@scarecrow810

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah well, he's been talking "new edition" for a number of years, so you might not want to start holding your breath. ;-)

I love this little game. Simple yet elegant. Have you tired any of the other Smithsonian AH titles?

@XLEGION1

7 жыл бұрын

Yes, the only one that I had tried before in this series was "Guadalcanal". I did a video on this one too,

With luck you could destroy Heth, Pender, Rodes and Early, with just gamble and Devin. As a cavalryman, I can see that ;)

Is this game in the division scale? :O Were the previous editions too?

@XLEGION1

2 жыл бұрын

All of the Avalon Hill 'Gettysburg' game were divisional scale except the 1977 edition which featured brigades.

@plrc4593

2 жыл бұрын

@@XLEGION1 So they're very introductory :D

@XLEGION1

2 жыл бұрын

@@plrc4593 Very introductory indeed. I think they are a little 'too' simple and with minor tweaking can be made into much better simulation, but still very simple.

The dice should be 1-6, not 1-10

12:41 Eleven does not exceed three by seven. You don't cheat, do you? Hey, when and where is this gaming convention?? I went to a war gaming convention at John Hopkins university in Baltimore back in 1975. Thought this was a lost art until now.

@XLEGION1

7 жыл бұрын

Ha Ha! Math was never my strong card. I noted in the video though that the outcome was still valid. Difficult enough trying to juggle camera work, commentary, timing etc...without re-learning math 101! (grin)

@XLEGION1

7 жыл бұрын

Oh, the convention I am speaking about is WBC - The World Board Gaming Championships. Held in Lancaster Pa. for many years but last year moved to Seven Spring Resort, east of Pittsburg. I have been going for the past few years where my Developer Dave Stiffler runs my "Mr. Madison's War" war-game tournament.

@adamgruen651

5 жыл бұрын

You are referring to Origins I at Homewood Campus. I was there too. Good times!

Roll D6, add 4. Luck component reduced. You’re welcome.

@XLEGION1

4 жыл бұрын

I have no idea of what you are trying to say.

@Xeonise

4 жыл бұрын

@@XLEGION1 Instead of rolling D10 for combat and having a result of 1-10, you can roll D6 and add 4 for a result of 5-10. This will reduce the differential in combat resolution, limiting the luck component of the game and putting greater emphasis on terrain, unit strength etc.

@XLEGION1

4 жыл бұрын

@@Xeonise ah! that makes sense.