Gerrymandering: the art of grouping like minded voters into single groups so that no one need compromise and so the most extreme candidate wins the primaries ... leading to polarized, non-functioning politics. Brilliant.

@charles2521

5 ай бұрын

- The power is concentrated in the hands of a few politicians, which by definition is oligarchy. - The rich buy influence by financing elections, and it has been proven that politicians serve the interests of those who finance them rather than those who vote for them. - Gerrymandering. Yet, they have the audacity to call this system a "democracy".

@AnnoyingAllie3

4 ай бұрын

Through some neo-liberalism and culture wars on that disaster pizza, and don't forget the unregulated technology

Sounds like another problem that would, more or less, be resolved by straight counting votes.

@benheinz7886

3 жыл бұрын

Bro you still have to draw districts... The house is supposed to have 1 member for about every 750,000 people, so states with millions still have to divide their states up

@marcinmazurek8124

3 жыл бұрын

@@benheinz7886 Is this also not just solved by having each party nominate an appropriate group of delegates for the assumed amount of districts, campaign on them state-wide and then allocate them once the voting finishes? Or include Delegate down-ballot

@benheinz7886

3 жыл бұрын

@@marcinmazurek8124 that's not as representative and would heavily favor republicans. There are more republican representatives in new york than Oklahoma and more democrat in texas than michigan. That is the reason it is what it is, but it would still favor republicans more if it was all or nothing for representatives.

@Ao-pj1mc

2 жыл бұрын

Pure democracy doesn't work in diverse societies. Never has

@mrcat6433

2 жыл бұрын

A better idea is to use a mixed-member proportional system like in New Zealand

The more I study about american politics, the more I see its similarities to a fcking circus.

@beautifulskull724

2 жыл бұрын

You thought you ate that💀

@jayumble8390

2 жыл бұрын

I could not agree with you more Dane.

@maki1571

2 жыл бұрын

@@beautifulskull724 And they did ✋

@Ao-pj1mc

2 жыл бұрын

The American Constitution is the oldest codified constitution on the planet. That doesn't happen if the government it creates is a circus. It's people that don't understand it that create issues.

@JackEacher

2 жыл бұрын

I mean..the major parties have an elephant and donkey as their identity

I'm from Singapore, districts are redrawn every single election, and the government is always dominated by the one party. I can literally walk to 4 different districts within 20mins, sounds like cracking to me...

@sheharnaeem6198

8 жыл бұрын

But isn't Singapore a pretty densely populated place, so that makes sense wouldn't it? And also, even if there weren't a lot of people in Singapore, it wouldn't make sense for a country to only have 3 seats in the whole country.

@matthewliujm

8 жыл бұрын

Well many districts merge and break every election. It makes sense to have enough seats in the parliarment, but it doesnt make sense to always find out about new constituencies every election

@sheharnaeem6198

8 жыл бұрын

That's true

@elvenskill0

7 жыл бұрын

First of all there is no true democracy in Singapore, but even ignoring that a district based system is absurd there. Singapore it's too small and densely populated. It would be much more reasonable a 100% proportional system.

@James-xx7yt

6 жыл бұрын

Why would a place like Singapore need districts? Singapore needs proportional voting, stat.

That's why the US needs an independent non-partisan electoral commission to draw electoral boundaries.

@Indianart1

10 жыл бұрын

"Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself." - attributed to Mark Twain. The only truly independent body of apolitical people would have to come from outside the country. Whatever happened to one man one vote, or was there ever such a thing?

@NoOne3234

10 жыл бұрын

Indianart1 Actually, they could just use a computer to partition the state into districts of even population with the least travel times within districts. This would create randomly distributed and fairly ordinary looking districts. Since the computer would be blind to party affiliation, it would be a more fair method of districting than our current form (partisan humans drawing districts as unfairly as possible).

@aperson22222

9 жыл бұрын

My state's laws require that the two major parties submit new district maps after the census comes out to a commissioner who takes both into account and draws a new map, which is legally binding. For some years the commissioner has been a poli sci professor from one of our state colleges. He's a registered Democrat but has a strong reputation for fairness. He says his guiding principle is ensuring that, after each redistricting, as many people as possible remain in their old districts. So surprisingly, we have relatively little gerrymandering here.

@NoOne3234

9 жыл бұрын

aperson22222 What state is that?

@aperson22222

9 жыл бұрын

Rabbit on Da Moon New Jersey. Rhode Island has a similar arrangement, and California, Washington, and Arizona have standing committees for redistricting. Five states out of fifty is not very good, though.

In my opinion, gerrymandering should be abolished. It's an abusive tactic used by both parties....

@EE-xj7yb

9 жыл бұрын

It can't it is an unlucky part of having the electoral college.

@DallasCowboyFan95

9 жыл бұрын

A third independent commission should redraw the districts, instead of politicians. Canada already did this in the 1960s but our government once again keeps falling behind with the world.

@HanZhang1994

9 жыл бұрын

Boogster Su No, this is every bit as legitimate as the campaigns ran every election by presidential candiates, they are every bit as strategic. Go to the root of the problem (the electoral college), the fact that your country packs together people into districts and goes with the "all or nothing" district vote distribution instead of looking at the raw number of people that support each party.

@ProjectBetaDev

8 жыл бұрын

+DallasCowboyFan95 People can get bribed. You need to change the system away from an electoral college. But booth of your parties wont do that cause they would lose to new parties.

@gFamWeb

8 жыл бұрын

+DallasCowboyFan95 Great. Who picks the third party? Are they random dudes of the street? If the politicians pick them, can;t they just pick people they know will gerrymander? I really don't like gerrymandering but it is hard to come up with a fair third party.

Happened in my country's last year general election. Opposition gained 51% popular votes but still lost. (sigh) I'm from Malaysia.

@jpheitman

10 жыл бұрын

The same thing happened in US in 2000. I feel ya, bro.

@shazniazhar

10 жыл бұрын

jpheitman *brohug

@aperson22222

9 жыл бұрын

+jpheitman That wasn't gerrymandering. Presidential election returns are counted on a statewide basis, so you can't gerrymander them.

@jpheitman

9 жыл бұрын

aperson22222 Hush, you. Read the second sentence of the OP.

@aperson22222

9 жыл бұрын

jpheitman I'm not responding to the OP, I'm responding to you. Given that Malaysia does not have an elected president, I'd have thought that was obvious The Yang d-Pertuan Agong is elected, but not popularly; more like in the sense that the Holy Roman Emperors were elected.

And you call that democracy?

@myowncomputerstuff

7 жыл бұрын

No. We call it a republic.

@pbrower2a1

7 жыл бұрын

"Republic" simply means that there is not even a figurehead monarch. The UK is a democracy. The USA was (and it is shaky as a democracy). Syria is a republic, but it is not democratic in the least.

@jakelong9188

6 жыл бұрын

pbrower2a1 You're right. The correct term for the United States is that we're Federal Constitutional Republic

@obiwankenobi4252

5 жыл бұрын

@@jakelong9188 a republic is a form of government, a demkcracy is a form of state

@ellaluzpicavet

4 жыл бұрын

The US is technically classified as a flawed democracy, not a full one

Just looking at the shape of your district doesn't actually help. Some districts are drawn in strange ways to keep demographically similar people together to make sure their representative attends to what the people want. If you want to know if a district is politically gerrymandered, look at the percentages. If a state votes 50% one party, but that party get 75% of the seats, you're looking at gerrymandered districts.

@thehiddenninja3428

5 жыл бұрын

But, grouping demographically similar people together is exactly packing.

@jojitogonzales

2 жыл бұрын

@@thehiddenninja3428 I believe that was the idea of the voting rights act of 1965, which was passed when minorities weren't able to elect the representative of their choice unless they were a majority or close to it, because enough white Americans would vote against candidates that benefited minorities. Meaning states had to draw some districts that were majority minority so the minorities had some representation. But that also has the problem that once a district is majority minority, or already reliably voting for one party, adding more minority people to the district means some of the votes are wasted (all that is needed is a majority) and some people could have been part of another district tl increase their representation. It's ironic but I believe the voting rights act doesn't allow for districts that are majority minority to be redrawn so a smaller majority is minority ethnicity, and the rest are put in another district. Anyway, I don't know if racial gerymandering (that is used to increase minority representation) is even good if the goal is to have representatives that reflect the percentages of voters' priorities. There's so many issues it's hard to find an optimal method. Another thing is that even if the districts are drawn arbitrarily, a state that votes 60% for democrats is likely to have a majority even bigger (say 80-90%), because districts are generally more likely to be majority Democrat. So if you're just trying to draw districts that reflect the percentage of people who vote for each party, you might have to actively gerrymander to get the correct number of districts for each party (otherwise a small majority could become larger). Another goal is to maximize the number of districts that are competitive, so average voters really have an impact on their representative and unseat a rep who is doing a bad job.

Just awesome, more information and clear understanding in such a short time 👍

CGP Grey?

@earlsocksiii5174

6 жыл бұрын

Alen Senpai or Adam from Adam ruins everything?

@greenwater8096

6 жыл бұрын

Yes.

@nonamepasserbya6658

4 жыл бұрын

Yes to both

@Nguyenzander

4 жыл бұрын

111st like!

Why don't we just use a mathematical formula or something to create the districts? It could prevent gerrymandering.

@aritakalo8011

8 жыл бұрын

Because that would be fair for everyone?

@pbrower2a1

7 жыл бұрын

Proportional representation would solve that problem. Because politicians are now more beholden to political contributors to their campaigns, the real power in the legislative branch of the American federal government and in most State legislatures is corporate lobbyists who pull the strings upon legislative puppets on behalf of giant corporations that bleed the public treasures.

@jespoketheepic

6 жыл бұрын

Perfectly drawn districts would basically be proportional representation anyway.

@shealupkes

6 жыл бұрын

because we use mathematical formulas to enforce gerrymandering

@ranamahran4918

6 жыл бұрын

It's a double-edged sword. It can both help and hurt the cause.

Really nice overview, but I think the two videos on Gerrymandering from CGPGrey are even better. He goes into greater detail of the process of both two-party and multiple-party-Gerrymandering.

@KayJblue

Жыл бұрын

Exactly.

Why not calculate each individual vote?

@thatsmeman780

7 жыл бұрын

cause american democracy is weird

@thatsmeman780

7 жыл бұрын

otakureiss Not entirely true. In Denmark, each vote is individually tallied up and split into mandates, which in turn translate into seats in the parliament. Keep in mind though, Denmark only has 7 million inhabitants and even fewer with the right to vote.

@josephwindle-puente9259

7 жыл бұрын

eerm ...american republic

@petepete1830

7 жыл бұрын

Droop Hoop Videos America is a republic which is a form of democracy where we elect leaders to represent us. Everyone's votes in a district are tallied up and the local representatives give their vote based on that. If your party has 40% of the population but they are located in the western part, divide the county and split the votes so you will receive all votes from the western district. The representative of the western district will votes for you instead of no support in the county. Also the U.S. Population is too large to count all the votes.

@randompersonn4251

7 жыл бұрын

1. America is a representative democracy. 2. Voter fraud becomes much more problematic in a direct democracy, especially w/ modern tech. 3. With the electoral college and district voting, it limits voting fraud (extra fraudulent votes) to one area.

CGP Grey also explains this pretty well in one of his videos. If you don't quite get it, check out his video on gerrymandering.

Great lesson, will be sharing.

Supreme Court case came about recently regarding gerrymandering and the majority of justices ruled it was a political question not to be determined by the court, essentially allowing gerrymandering to continue forever.

@l1ghtd3m0n3

Жыл бұрын

Supreme Court has always been a political tool since corruption has been a thing. No matter how neutral it was intended to be, human nature is always a vulnerable target for corrupt practices.

This was so helpful!!!!

Don't worry tho, let's play like the "Republican's vs democrat's" is a football game....

@undercover13yearold16

8 жыл бұрын

Hell yeah

@sharifsaladinbey7604

3 жыл бұрын

Yooo that’s crazy I’ve been saying this for a while. Is all a game. My team against your team.

@danielsousa9329

3 жыл бұрын

That's what it feels like... I don't see people supporting their party because of their policies, but because they "are democrat" or "are republican". Politicians also spend most of their speech time telling people why they shouldn't vote for the opposing party, instead of why they should vote for them... it's really absurd

@aarone1777

3 жыл бұрын

It's all fun & games untill something you want is ended. Then it's wha, wha, whawww do over!

@aarone1777

3 жыл бұрын

@@sharifsaladinbey7604 unless you are a true American then it's; "we"!

Elbridge Gerry's name has a hard G in Gerry. Gerrymandering was (presumably) originally pronounced with a hard G too

i like this narrator!

ASAP Science has a great series of videos on this topic

Those are counties - the districts look much more ridiculous, radiating out from Boston.

@aquaticllamas28

7 жыл бұрын

IoEstasCedonta Probably trying to pack the democrats into the city.

@IoEstasCedonta

7 жыл бұрын

...who do you think is drawing the Massachusetts boundaries?

@delighteddino9363

2 жыл бұрын

Not really, Ayanna Pressleys district is minority access and then everything else was just kind of built around that

Hi, this video was amazing and I like it very much! I really want to make a video like this also. I wonder what program that you use to make this amazing video? Thank you!

Im from Florida. Nuff said. #gerrymandering

Great video. I do wish it included "stacking". Update anyone? ...Bueller?

CGPGrey's was better, even though it used animals.

I prefer the “Talk-of-the-Town” approach. I’m from Minnesota & part of Minnesota’s Independence Party; couldn’t care less about political leanings. I’d first focus on what the geographical economy is about: mining, farming/ranching, forestry, manufacturing, & such. Next, I’d focus on Population distribution & the possible commute time(s) between work & home. And finally, refine the lines & leave not a single block nor building divided as much as possible.

Maybe the full version is better, but I don't think this is a good quick lesson on gerrymandering. I understand the process and still found this video less than helpful, because the visual aids made it look like you had to make disproportionate districts to skew the results, and that's not true.

CGP Grey's video explains this better, I recommend checking that out.

The packing animation is like trying to push two north or south poles together on a magnet.

The fact that this can happen proves how flawed the system is. It should be all about what soley the population wants not skewed and altered to give so people more of a preference!

Remarkably enough, my district (or, since I'm Canadian, riding) is a rectangle of the southern half of the city.

For more, look up C.G.P. Grey's video on gerrymandering.

Finally! I understand! Packing or Cracking!

The Hot Wind Blowing Jagged lines across the sand

Thanks

Hey, my hometown was part of that original gerrymander! Also, those districts that she examined at the end of the video aren't voting districts. They're our old counties.

@johanrunfeldt7174

Жыл бұрын

That is not a cause for celebration.

3:24: Ask looks like Ash from a distance

Politics and education are very intertwined. The same goes for science and medicine. Do you recall the debate over stem cell research and, of course, Medicare and "Obamacare"?

this only works in republic states where people vote other people vote for them (like usa) but not in countries where people directly vote for a president (like finland)

@Bobelponge123

6 жыл бұрын

What's a finlane

i had a small stroke when she pronounce “voilà” like “wah-lah”

@nternetrat

3 жыл бұрын

HASGHSHGH

The difference is that in the Electoral College, representatives are chosen not in direct proportion to the population. Therefore, when representatives vote for the people in their state. This is done to make sure that states with large populations can't be swayed, since presidents will still advertise to states overall, not in smaller communities

Just checked the borders for my state NH and saw the north is super huge. Probably because of pop. density

That "someone" was political cartoonist Thomas Nast, who worked for The Boston Gazette. Google his cartoon on the subject.

SHE IS MY PROFESSOR!!!

This is the single greatest cause of increased political division in the US.

Same thing was done in N.Ireland to gain the Unionist party all the seats every general election. Recently in the 26 counties they redrew constituencies which are usually counties merged with other counties (to do with population... Wondering why they changed them now.

We should just switch to single transferrable vote. It might be a bit more complicated but its more fair and representative.

@NaziGOPBallmer

8 жыл бұрын

+Jackson DeStefano IDK, if it is slightly more complicated, there's a chance it can become easily exploitable and you'd end up trading one corrupt system for another.

@ryanl8226

8 жыл бұрын

+NaziGOPBallmer Single transferable vote makes it harder to gerrymander since each district sends multiple representatives using a ranking voting system. No matter where the lines are drawn a similar number of representatives of each party will be sent to congress. If you want to know more about gerrymandering and voting system go to CGP Grey's youtube channel and looking at the Animal Kingdom series.

@robertjarman3703

6 жыл бұрын

The math is more complicated, the system is still simple for people marking the ballots.

I love the logo for the democratic-republican party u guys made!!

cgpgrey explains this so much better

While this video explains the issue of gerrymandering well, it doesn't really explain the current situation at all. New technology has taken gerrymandering to an entirely new level of effectiveness. Using sophisticated mapping software, districts are now drawn in such a way that one party will always win. Unfortunately the Republicans were the first to figure this out and in 2010 they were able to redraw the districts in the states they controlled to ensure that they would always win. Because of this the house of representatives will remain under republican control until at least 2020 no matter how people vote. While it is easy to present this information in a way that doesn't offend people's political sensibilities, this is not in line with reality. What the combination of gerrymandering and advanced mapping software have created is a republican party that is able to control the house no matter how people actually vote. For more information about this, David Daley's book Ratfu**ed explains the current situation in detail.

@ObjectsInMotion

7 жыл бұрын

Democrats Gerrymander just as frequently as republicans do, its not as one sided as you believe.

@ObjectsInMotion

7 жыл бұрын

Alysia Williams It's not like software designed for this purpose was just suddenly invented and there was a race to get to it. Even before there were computers there was big money in calculating voter distributions and redistricting. This is nothing new and both sides have been using these tactics for years.

@randompersonn4251

7 жыл бұрын

Gerrymandering is not one-sided...

@nadiafriesen971

4 жыл бұрын

Matt Livernois Also thanks to everyone using online services that sell your data it is much easier to ensure you know who the person will vote for

CAN? impact? SERIOUSLY? More like "does" "control"

The problem that this stems from is that people cannot directly vote. Instead they see the majority of a district and label it for whom the majority wanted. But if Each vote was tallied by everyone who voted, then none of this would necessary. And now with electronic voting I don't see why we can't just tally up all the votes for every person.

hi Mr Lowe’s class

woa, never thought that something like this could exist. basically you might win even if you have less voters... but voters is what democracy is built on...

My district is fucked up. My house is literally on four different borders with a neighboring district. We almost have district-enclaves here in PA....

@paulmahoney7619

8 жыл бұрын

It seems to get worse every time.

*Laughs in Proportional System*

Woot for Thought bubble....

Solution: 1 man, 1 vote.

@theparker3759

3 жыл бұрын

Joseph Omole So a poor area that has a minority of people will get ignored? Districts are necessary, even though the can be corrupted.

@MrName-fo2td

3 жыл бұрын

Parker Alleman it won’t get ignored, it will have as much representation as everyone else

@euanstokes2828

3 жыл бұрын

@@theparker3759 why not a compromise solution? Single Transferable Votr

@euanstokes2828

3 жыл бұрын

@@theparker3759 under STV, there are larger constituencies which send multiple representatives. This creates proportionality whilst not abolishing or watering down the power or regional districts

@jadeblades

3 жыл бұрын

@@theparker3759 No? Their vote would count as much as anyone else? How would that mean they're ignored?

Where was this video when I was in AP Government ????

Exactly. It explains how gerrymandering works much, much better, and it doesn't change the amount of inhabitants per district to fit withing arbitrary boundaries either. v=Mky11UJb9AY or check the related videos bar, people!

CGP Grey spoke about how this can be solved. Check out CGP Grey! He's a great educator!

Really helpful thank you! :)

That's why it worked so well in ancient Greece and early America, but isn't very effective now. It's hard to come to a consensus when there's a lot of different people with a lot of different opinions.

This feels so important for politics but still trying to grasp the concept even after watching this. It’s not a bad video. My brain is just weird at learning. I looked this up cuz of an educational tik tok app video about the 2020 presidential election. Very worried for the future of this country no matter who wins. This election and the surrounding social/cyber climates make it feel like some ones weakening the American minds in order to better prepare for an invasion or something if they don’t successfully pull off a self starting civil war for America. Something tells me that some of this energy may be getting shaped through the efforts of ppl that believe in anarchy and enemy factions of the United States like state sponsored North Korean hackers or even domestic cyber anarcho terrorists. I know my mind can run wild on this but it is becoming a scarier time to be an American during this period in history. Feels like the enemies that be for america need to be dealt with ASAP and swiftly. Feels like we need to do a better job at containing the spread of these delusional, criminally minded ppl

I hear increasing the size of the House would mitigate the gerrymandering issue.

People should look up GCPGrey's video on this

That would imply a popular vote, but some say that such a system provides too much influence to certain states such as New York that have a high population, which is the reason as to why the Electoral College system formed in the first place.

Here in Britain our constituencies never change.

I get the feeling that the bigger the community, the harder it is to have a democracy. It's the difference between 2 people compromising about something and 20 people arguing about it for half an hour until the loudest person wins.

@emberandfriendsanimations2454

2 жыл бұрын

Or any kind of order, really

Venezuela

Should watch the CGP Grey on that. If you add up these big cities such all the way to Spokane, WA...then that's only like 2% of the whole population or something of that figure.

Then how do they choose officials in a Republic? What's so different?

In Austin, Texas, a very Democratic city, the Republican state legislature cracked the city into 5 districts that each contain a tiny sliver of Austin and sprawl deep into the more republican suburbs and rural areas. The 35th district spans from Austin to San Antonio: packing Democrats from both cities. Houston and Dallas have similar issues: several districts that take a small sliver of the Democratic city that cancel out the democratic voters by sprawling deep into the rural areas. The representatives choose their constituents. That’s the first problem. The second is single-member first-past-the-post districts. Mixed Member Proportional districts let voters, not districts, decide who wins elections. Plus, it eliminates the idea of a “safe seat” which should be ludicrous in a functioning democracy but is just something we have accepted as normal.

@reuter2824

2 жыл бұрын

Don't make this a party thing. Look at MD

Electoral college too. State representatives are not obliged to vote the same way as the majority of the state that delegates them in the first place. Weird stuff all over the place

omg that elephant donkey mix XD

kinda confused...i thought it was just towns and counties that decide who the winning vote is?

More important is the way they are trying to impliment things like ID cards to vote. As if a driver's licence or as I have; Id card is not enough! I'm waiting for a direct poll charge (tax) in order to vote!

how does a party get the upper hand or who get the opportunity to pack or crack this republicans or democrats.

Anyone know the name of the bill Gerry signed?

In a democracy there is strict majority rule by the people. Everybody votes on everything and whichever side is more than 50% wins. In a Republic there is a foundation of laws that restricts rule by the majority. A Republic can be controlled by the people or representatives but inalienable rights cannot be overruled by a majority. The USA is commonly referred to as a Democratic Republic because it uses a combination of both.

Cool video I'm pretty sure my vote doesn't count because my I live in a gerrymandered district

Insane tactics

In regards to gerrymandering, California uses a 14 member independent commission (no elected officials allowed) to redistrict. If Californians do not like the redistricted areas they can challenge them through a referendum process. Lastly, districts are not based upon politicians, but rather the social and economic interests of citizens. All of this has allowed for really competitive (and hopefully fair) local political races. In the presidential race, however, the electoral college gives California voters less representation in comparison to other states (we CA voters have one of the lowest voting powers). For example, one California elected official represents 700,000 people, whereas one Wyoming elected official only represents 195,000 people. Therefore individual CA voters have less representation and voting power because of the electoral college.

Can someone explain why votes don't count? It seems to me that a district doesn't matter if votes count, right? Or is it just districts that count? Is that why parties gerrymander in the first place?

We will NEVER have a truly representative and fair Democracy until politicians are excluded from the redistricting process. Computer algorithms exist that can automatically draw COMPACT, EQUAL POPULATION districts using 2020 census demographic distribution maps. NO INPUT BY POLITICIANS REQUIRED. This process should be over seen by citizens in a nonpartisan manner.

Anyone in mr clarks class?

3:36 Does my district look like a salamander? 🤣🤣🤣👌👌👌

one TEDeducation video a night to increase smarts ;)

Elections are like chess but when someone captures a piece he can change the rules midgame Also dont forget White moves first.

*CGP Grey's

My district look like a salamander, now what do I do? O.O

We should make a new constitutional amendment of USA to abolish gerrymandering

@infamousempire8302

8 жыл бұрын

Actually when the Supreme Court tried to solve gerrymandering they said it was unsolvable.

@MrName-fo2td

3 жыл бұрын

Infamous Empire just change who creates the boundaries

0:32 map of Texas?

boogster su. i agree u.

I liked this video because it wasn't partisan

@elenacalhoun5126

3 жыл бұрын

Coregon the motivation for gerrymandering are very partisan. It’s very hard to filter out this from the conversation. I believe things should be FAIR.

yeah that's the ticket... ... to really get conned

Nitpicking, Ocstrm's point still stands.

North of Ireland