A similar thing is happening in the U.S. with steam. We have around 150 operating steam locomotives nationally, and the average look is a black machine that depicts an appearance post-1920. A significant exception is multiple mid-1800's or new-builds of mid-1800's engines, like the classic 4-4-0 "American Standard." However, the era of the 1890s to 1920 has long been overlooked. In the last decade, three locomotives in different parts of the country have been restored to their Edwardian appearances, and a fourth is under restoration. I'm excited about this because these engines fill an important gap in American railroad history that was full of interesting ideas and visuals, but is not well known due to its lack of representation.

@jacobwoods8738

7 ай бұрын

Exactly! That was a critical era, the emergence of electricity, steel railcars, and lots of other modern developments, but everything is 1930s-1950s. I will confess I am partial to that era, but all too often equipment from the 1900a remained in use until the 1950s, and therefore are presented that way. All too often I hear “oh it’s 1905, or 1910, or 1915” but the engine shown looks post-1930s, and nothing like 1900-1920.

@felixtheswiss

4 ай бұрын

In Switzerland thats the primary Era as the last Mainline Steamer was built in 1917. The surviving paddlesteamers come from that era as well, there it is known as the "Belle époque" And if you think that has nothing to do with the UK. Many Railways and Ships were built especialy for british tourists.

In my opinion we should be glad for what we have it's just so great to see so much steam locomotives still going as well as there replacements

@OscarOSullivan

7 ай бұрын

Well their replacements are starting to be rolling museum pieces now

@AnthonyDawsonHistory

7 ай бұрын

In the Netherlands only two running steam locomotives. That's it. UK enthusiasts literally do not know how good they have it.

@TheGreyTurtleEntertainment

7 ай бұрын

​@@AnthonyDawsonHistory agreed. I'm in the US and while we do have a good deal more than two functional steam locomotives, it's often hours if not days to drive to someplace that has at *least* one functional engine. Ive seen videos from Britain where they can literally take a train to go see another train in all than less than a day.

@AnthonyDawsonHistory

7 ай бұрын

@@TheGreyTurtleEntertainment In one county alone in the UK - Staffordshire - you have the standard gauge Foxfield Railway and Churnet Valley Railway not five miles appart. The former about 2 miles long former colliery line, the latter 10 1/2 miles long with a turn over in £millions and runs big mainline locos like S160s. Then there's Chasewater Railway (2 miles long) which does pretty much what Foxfield does in running industrials with BR MK1s. In addition is the narrow-gauge Apedale railway (less than a mile), the Amerton railway and Statfold Barn. All competing for the same market, the same people, same money. I honestly don't think its sustainable.

@matthiasmuller9369

4 ай бұрын

This. In Germany we don't have any lines in form of what the UK have. These heritage lines like NYMR, SVR, Watercress, you name it are a sole UK thing and it's a marble to so many of them.

The golden era of the railways in this country was probably from about 1900 to 1914, when their mileage was its highest and road competition was low.

@joshslater2426

7 ай бұрын

Agreed. Most of the best and most beautiful locos came from this era.

My personal favourite UK railway era is from the 1890s to about 1914. I’m always studying the pre-grouping companies and seeing Edwardian or late Victorian locos in museums always excites me. The NRM’s station hall captured the best variety of eras and pre-grouping designs. Unfortunately there’s not really enough preserved pre-grouping rolling stock for events to be held (maybe a GNR, LBSC or GER day would be possible as they have a good amount of locos and coaches, but you’d have to find someone willing to do it).

@caledonianrailway1233

7 ай бұрын

Maybe a Caledonian or highland railway day maybe a gnsr gala could be arranged after the rail motor at ferryhill is restored

@HeyItsAJOmega

7 ай бұрын

I know the North Norfolk Railway has quite a few rather lovely pre-grouping coaches, including a Wisbech and Upwell Tramcar and (IIRC) one or more M&GNJR coaches, which they often run in an assorted 'pre-grouping' era rake? So they just sort of combine them all together into a mish-mash of pre-grouping era coaches. Not quite prototypical, but especially when combined with something like their GER Y14 locomotive (an 1883 design) it certainly captures that pre-grouping/Victorian feel rather nicely! Mind you, it did also lead to a surreal scenario where at one of their mixed traction galas, I ended up on this 'pre-grouping stock' train, being hauled by their Class 37 diesel of all things - AND the W&U tramcar was directly behind the locomotive! So I stood on the veranda at the front of the tramcar and could almost touch the back of the 37! Experiencing that level of tractor thrash in the open air like that was certainly a very unique experience :D

@HeyItsAJOmega

7 ай бұрын

I also know the Keighley and Worth Valley Railway has a gorgeous selection of pre-grouping stock available on their line, including some stunning L&YR coaches - my favourite is the Blackpool Club carriage that's often been in service on regular trains at their steam galas whenever I've visited in recent years. It's like nothing else I've ever travelled on at any railway - gorgeous wood and leather interior, carpets, free-standing leather armchairs, it's literally a dining room/living room on wheels! So between the L&YR Trust who own these coaches, the Vintage Carriages Trust who also operate their own museum and workshop at Ingrow West on the line, plus the line's own selection of Victorian locomotives - including the L&YR No.25 Ironclad! - you've got a really nice selection of pre-grouping stuff. I've also seen that they run 'vintage trains' themed days, using as much of their pre-grouping stock as possible - you wouldn't have enough stock to do a full L&YR themed gala, but I wonder how possible it would be for them to pair up all their L&YR coaches with Ironclad, for a fully in-period L&YR themed train? ^_^

My theory is that the liveries change with the oldest folks on the railway. The first years of preservation, the oldest people remembered the grouping era, so you’d find most engines in grouping colors. Now the oldest people remember BR days, and so, green and black. I believe we will get to a point soon where the oldest people only remember the beginning of preservation, so we might see some massive livery changes.

@callumthornelow2936

7 ай бұрын

Something to take in to account on that note... In the 1970's & 1980's BR steam was a recent memory and in the eye's of the majority, not a a very good one. This why many BR engines built to pre nationalisation designs were painted in pre BR liveries, e.g 7827 Lydham Manor, 60532 Blue Peter, 46441, 61306 'Mayflower' and so on. It was a case of doing what was popular rather than being proper.

@MattyP62618

7 ай бұрын

That's an interesting take, I believe as well that it could by cyclical. For example, I grew up in the 90's 00's & I remember everything being BR black, and as such that's the era I'm interested in. So who knows, when my generation are old enough, it could switch back again to BR liveries!

Fantastic and informative video Chris, my favourite era, I would say, is the early 1900s to the late 1920s, especially on the Great Western. Starting out with Churchward's Saints and finishing with the Kings of the Railway in 1927

I think that it would be a good idea to new-build a batch of LNWR 0-6-0's (and finishing the 90% complete Bloomer) 1, the LNWR was the largest pre-grouping railway in the UK, yet has tragically few survivors, 2, the LNWR 0-6-0's are notoriously easy to mass-produce and maintain, 3, they lasted into the BR era without changing colours (only numbers/names) making them timeframe-versatile! :)

@AnthonyDawsonHistory

7 ай бұрын

Given the number of locomotives which are 'preserved' in name only, and that volunteer numbers are dwindling, and is money, and with the current and on-going coal crisis, *any* new build engine is on dodgy ground, unless it's designed from the ground up to burn E-coal and is part of a funded museum with guaranteed income stream etc.

@bskorupk

7 ай бұрын

@@AnthonyDawsonHistory I agree entirely, I was musing in that comment, on a different note, what's confused me is how there have been several major restorations/new-builds, but the resources (buildings machinery etc) applied seem to be almost one-use, whilst the Stroudley A1's now have new patterns and molds for heavy spares, I'm not aware of a similar class-wide approach given for the Big-4 and BR Standard designs, what can be done for heritage groups to consolidate resources? Would having a large, centralized facility more inline with that of Meiningen help? or would it unduly shrink the apprenticeship opportunities/living history demonstrations present at most heritage lines?

Being from Germany, it makes me really happy to see the grouping and especially the pre-grouping eras seeing a growing interest, as here in Germany quite the opposite is the case with fewer and fewer people being interested in railway history before 1948, not even to talk about the era of the state railways (prior to nationalization in 1920), which apart from its most successful classes that survived in service until the final years of steam seems pretty much forgotten.

For me, the pre BR "big four" era is the one that captures my imagination. Especially the rivalry between the LMS and the LNER. The attempt to grab the headlines with speed records between them is fascinating. It resulted in some of the greatest steam locomotives built in the UK.

@OscarOSullivan

7 ай бұрын

The LMS originally Midland railway client company Northern Counties Committee railway in what became Northern Ireland after world war two built 18 tank engines based on LMS designs of the era one of which the preserved number four had the honour of being the last in regular service steam locomotive in Ireland and the UK with the last such of the passenger services happening at 17:30 the 31st of March 1970. The M1 spoil trains lasted until near the end of the year and worked as a station pilot until July 1971 at York Road Belfast.

Interesting takes. I'm from Denmark which has a largely smaller heritage train scene than the UK. Most societies here usually try to get by with what they can get their hands on, heck my local society which is one of the nation's largest, doesn't even have a running steam engine, and nearly had to sell one Swedish tank engine that has worked for years for the society to raise funds for the others. But we do have some interesting stuff with periods. Most societies here settle with showcasing the 1920's-1930's since most preserved rolling stock here is 2 axle coaching stock from private branch lines and the state railways suburban services from this period. But a lot of societies here are actually part of a larger society called Dansk Jernbane Klub or DJK. DJK generally assigns its societies into specific periods or eras of representation. The oldest line in the country, the Museum line Maribo-Bandholm has the best collection of 1860-90 equipment in the country. Vestsjællands veterantog mainly represents 1920's era suburban rolling stock which was also used on rural branch lines into the 1960s. One society near me, MY veterantog, specializes in Intercity rolling stock from the 1970's.

I'm part of that younger generation that likes the Pre-Grouping era or sometimes era 1. It doesn't help that I got a GNR line that got ripped up in the 60-70s right on my door step. Where you can ride on for 5 miles flat out which terminates at a closed of station and the Midland mainline. I hope one day half of the bike track turns into a track

Railways won’t be able to rely on the appeal of ‘living memory’ forever. One day there’ll be no-one who remembers mainline steam. Personally I prefer seeing era 1 / pre-grouping stock, and better to experience it running than gathering dust in a museum.

@OscarOSullivan

7 ай бұрын

Depends on where you are from some countries like China, East Germany and India used them until fairly recently. The Guinea special is not it is made up to be the last Steam locomotive in regular service in the UK was NCC WT number four which is preserved.

@davidpnewton

7 ай бұрын

That day of the end of living memory is coming far sooner than many like to think. To remember BR mainline steam now you have to be over 60. Give it 30 years and it will be a thing vanishing over the historical horizon.

1:41 I'm the fireman in that shot. Thank you for the video, very interesting.

As a American, most of our preserved railroads don't have a defined era. The closest one that does in my mind is the East Broad Top, but most lines are just using what they can get, and what they need for their route.

@jacoblyman9441

7 ай бұрын

The era debate is a thing that happens in America even if we don't have eras so easily defined. Look at the way the Cumbres & Toltec keeps angering armchair enthusiasts everytime they restore something that isn't 1960's pre-abandonment DRGW stuff, and it shows the era debate is lively here. Even if we don't have neat definitions of what those eras are.

@jacobwoods8738

7 ай бұрын

We most certainly do, it is just not as colourful and apparent. Different headlights, different whistles, lettering, etc. Some were upset when TVRM restored Tennessee, Alabama & Georgia No 80 as No 80, rather than its later Southern 2879 livery. By comparison TVRM has 3 GP38-2s built for Southern. My philosophy has always been guided by non-railroad preservation standards, which is to restore something to its period of significance, or to the period from which the most historic fabric survives. This is one reason I do not mind seeing a false spark arrestor on a D&RGW K-28. I personally find myself liking things “as delivered”, but many here just like those remembering BR, want “as retired”, with all black locomotives with as many modern upgrades as possible. (Compounded by so many in the industry having “big steam fever” and wanting everything to be as close to a super power steam locomotive as possible). Personally, I feel the decision needs to be removed from one’s own opinions, all too often one hears “that’s not how I remember it”, and based more heavily on scholastic observation. If your collection has the last steam locomotive to do something, by all means have it portrayed “as retired”, but if it was historic in being the first steam locomotive to make use of XXX, and restoring it to that just means a different headlight and pilot, by all means do that, don’t paint it as it was in a city park, as a bunch of people remember it that way, dressed as something but in reality just a propped up corpse. All too often things are portrayed in their final days, days of death, lack of maintenance, and shoestring maintenance. Is that really the era to represent? Coaches are my favourite era, and all too often they get a coat of original paint (if that) but nothing else is done to actually restore them, giving a coach that represents the last few years of steam, even if it’s actual build date is far earlier. It may have originally been built in 1920, but is “as rebuilt” in 195X.

2:37 The group I was involved with, who were trying to reopen a line, planned to do something similar mostly because the stations were constructed in that order. 30's, 50's, 70's (as a temporary terminus before closure). I thought it was actually a really neat way of demonstrating the evolution of the line and railways in Britain.

On our railway we have made the economic decision to bury the idea of having all our engines running, and focus on just one or two. Joe Normie is as interested in the distinction between this or that engine as a mosquito is in choosing its next victim - if it chuffs and whistles they're happy... even if they have no idea what they're looking at half of the time. Some can't even tell the difference between a steamer and a diesel on occasion. The real people to apprechiate all these fanciful and rare pieces of history is us, the enthusiasts. If our railway can keep a second or third engine running AND it being something unique, it'll be for special occasions only. Then again, where I'm from the interest in volunteer work is luke warm at best and the _literally_ handful of active folks realy can't manage anything more than one engine.

@OscarOSullivan

7 ай бұрын

The RSPSI and Downpatrick and County Down Railway do that

A sensible conclusion eloquently made. For someone who grew up in the diesel era and I get a little fed up with the endless BR coloured stuff being trotted out, however I do understand the reason for it. The people doing the majority of the contributing in terms of money, time an labour want to recreate the era of their younger days - and nostalgia is a very powerful draw. However, as someone who is a fan of 1930s design, fashion and art, I love the big four and the sheer variety it offered - it was a dash of colour in an austere world (especially in the 30s). But your conclusion is bang on in that this is all part of a bigger picture than simply playing trains - this sort of recreation and context is important for mindset - and as someone with a degree on history I take its interpretation very seriously. Someone's surroundings give a small but important window into what influences their train of thought - though we always need to be careful not to over refine and over polish this. Either way a diverting and thought provoking piece - and if I may say done in a very eloquent and engaging presentation style, which can be sorely needed in this field!

I think to sum to this all up, variety is becoming more important. It is so wonderful to see engines of earlier periods and wearing liveries of said period, being rested and being thrusted into the spotlight. When I saw the T3 in person, I was absolutely taken a back! She is stunning! And I’d like to think that over time, non enthusiasts may start to appreciate the earlier eras of railways more. Again it’s about variety, which in this climate will prove to be more crucial for the survival of heritage railways and their locomotives. Great video as always Chris, always raising some great points and perspectives. It was a pleasure to meet you at the Swanage Railway as well 👍

Very well researched and presented subject again Chris. My preservation society has a good selection of historic engines and coaches. But chooses to run industrial tanks and MK1 consistently. Why, well they are cheaper to run, and the punters don’t know the difference. Such a shame to preserve such items and not use them. Tether like grannies old tea set, Better used and enjoyed than stuffed away

Its an intriguing topic! Personally, I rather love the railways that take the Bluebell approach of modelling different eras at different stations - the GCR, Mid-Hants and North Norfolk all do this extremely well. Plus this skirts round the issue of different eras appealing to different folks rather nicely - whatever era you like, there's a station for you! Funnily enough, Ive often wondered this topic too - sometimes not just in terms of older eras, but more recent eras too. Like when me and my dad did the Autumn Diesel Gala at the SVR this year, which was a celebration of the locomotives he grew up spotting in the 1970s - his beloved diesel hydraulics! It was a marvellous event, but it did occur to me that this fleet of BR Blue diesels was a little out of step with the mostly very LMS/GWR/early BR era coaching stock and stations. Will there ever be a time in the future when a railway decides to go full on with recreating a 1970s or 1980s feel, with stock in blue/grey? I'd actually LOVE to see a railway in full 1980s aesthetic, with Network SouthEast branding (much like what theyve done at Downham Market station!) and even blue-grey or NSE liveried stock. I guess thats too limited or too recent to appeal right now, but in the future, who knows? Especially as more comparitively modern rolling stock, like HSTs, Pacers and Sprinters etc, start entering preservation! And interestingly, my dad has previously said he'd love to do more steam galas in the future, and not just diesel galas with locos he grew up with. He was born in 1963, so he barely remembers steam at all - so your theory might hold weight! Additionally, I think steam locomotives hold a certain romance and style to them that captures the imagination and makes them timeless, hence why generations like my own and younger ones still find steam so enchanting. And I also wonder if heritage railways are cottoning on to the big vintage fashion and 'cottagecore' lifestyle movements that are very popular right now? Most of which seems to centre around the 40s, 50s and 60s, though there's also I believe plenty of interest in 20s and 30s fashion and style and such 😊

@212benji

7 ай бұрын

The Epping and Ongar railway operates a rake of Mk1 / mk2 coaches in Blue amd Grey, albeit steam hauled. But they do have some blue diesels too.

@HeyItsAJOmega

7 ай бұрын

@@212benjiGreat minds - it was when I was visiting the EOR one time that I thought about a BR blue/NSE themed railway! And you're right, they do have an excellent selection of BR blue/grey stock - I often visit their Diesel Galas, so when you get to pair up a blue diesel with that stock, it looks REALLY authentic. I also visited once when they had 50026 Indomitable appearing at the railway, in full Network SouthEast livery - that paired with a rake of BR blue/grey coaches was an absolute treat!

Tbh, I've long grown mostly tired of the BR era. The Black Five used to be my favorite locomotive design, but nowadays, whilst I still like them, I find them generic, and much prefer the pre grouping locos like the Prince of Whales, Dreadnoughts, and even mediocore or unsuccessful stuff like the Claughtons and New Oban Bogies

@OscarOSullivan

7 ай бұрын

My favourite steam locomotive would be NCC WT number four

To be honest, I’m mainly interested in heritage railways from a sociological-cultural perspective. As places for community and learning on a sensory level. A kind of rural or suburban Third Place. One that can be bigger than a pub or park! But with these amazing machines that look and sound and smell so different from our own world. And all the learning and doing that comes from them. I view heritage lines as similar to historical reenactment groups. Obviously much more expensive! Relatedly, does the heritage railway sector enable the redevelopment of the domestic coal mining industry? Would that even be a good thing if possible? As for eras, I’m mainly interested in 19th Century railways. You mentioned promise and potential in that era here. Do you do so in another video? I think coordination with other Victorian elements could be interesting.

Thank you. In a nut shell railways need to provide a unique experience. About travelling in a different way to the present - compartment coaches rather than opens be they Mark 1s or Victorian rattlers. Most visitors dont ultimately care about what goes on the front, but do really care about how well carriages are presented. Clean, tidy, working loos, warm in winter and cool in summer, with a nice view. And these days, they need to be accessible. Not just for those with visible disabilities, but hidden, too. Food needs to be good, turn out of staff (appropriately dressed of course) and customer service needs to be all excellent. Running steam trains does not make money. The secondary spend shops, buffets, cafes, bars, are in fact the primary spend of most visitors. That and Christmas trains. Galas catered to the enthusiast not a massive money spinner and quite risky. What heritage railways cannot do is pander to enthusiasts or one section of that community. Especially since the enthusiast demographic is not large and is shrinking year on year. UK railway preservation grew out of a unique period of time: line closures, barry scrapyard and a generation (baby boomers) who were time and money rich. Very often the same people are still involved, for good or bad. The great era debate, well, does it really matter? By and large its still based on a nostalgia market, but for how much longer? Those who remember mainline steam are getting fewer and fewer so running trains geared toward a particular generations nostalgia isnt going to work. Where else to look? Films, TV. "Harry Potter" coaches eg BR Mk1 compartment stock. 1920s glamour like the Orient Express (or similar). Plus the "Victorian Experience" of four wheel rattlers and hard seats. Most people won't care what pulls it but a C19th would be nice but little industrial will do. Enthusiasts get too hung up about whats on the front and what colour it is rather than what its pulling. But it's also interesting that younger enthusiasts are far more into Grouping and Pre-Grouping precisely because its NOT BR Black (which has been done to death). It's different but also, going back to experiences, it's different. It's bright and colourful and unique. And in many cases drop dead gorgeous. It's more attractive to look at and especially to non-enthusiasts. To survive heritage railways need to broaden their appeal; appeal to new and different markets and demographics; and recognise they are tourist attractions with a railway theme and need to have excellent customer service and facilities. Alas, many lines in recreating the 1950s and 1960s have also recreated social attitudes of the period. The days of a portaloo and sytrofoam cup are long gone. But yet some railways still dont have disabled loos. Or a permanent loo or station building. My other worry is, as we see in railway publishing (books and magazines) an increasing focus on nostalgia for a specific part of the enthusiast audience who have always bought books and mags, enjoy the nostalgia, and that becomes the only market. I'd say the steam mag market is at saturation point, especially the nostalgia titles. Which is why many publishers are saying ooh well, pre-1948 is a bit risky and definitely nothing before 1923 as no one remembers it. I would also argue that the heritage railway is at saturation point. We have too many and they mostly do the same thing. Not only that, we have a demographic crisis looming, a finance crisis and a coal crisis. Heritage railways need to change how they do things and do it quickly! not only in how they run trains but operate as a business as the existing volunteer model relies on people being time and money rich, which isn't the case these days. Others in the heritager sector have recognised that and moved on, but heritage railways are wedded to it....but I digress. Still trying to appeal to the same demographic ain't going to work volunteerwise of customer wise. Certainly not for getting grants. From personal experience "Era 1" trains are interesting and are popular with in particular the non-enthusiast audience. Enthusiasts have told me to my face they dont see the point of Planet - they don't remember it. They dont understand why it was built or how anyone would enjoy it and the money would've been better spent on building "something we do remember". One reason I have stopped going to model railway shows etc to sell books its because they literally do not sell. I went to one show in Darlington and sold nothing. I also got a lot of abuse, usually on the grounds of "should write something we remember". So yes nostalgia for a certain generation is a big thing still, for now. but not sure for how much longer. If I were to write about railwys I remember it would be Pacers, Sprinters and HSTs and Electras. Yet, despite this, Planet and Rocket incredibly popular. Why? Because it's nothing like modern travel and nothing like travel on a heritage railway. It's a completely new experience, and as I said at the start, it's about creating memorable experiences. Compartment stock, bright colours, A1 customer service.

Hey Chris, I watch your series a lot but never leave any comments. But this one really hit home with me. Keep it up I look forward to more. This series totally feels like you're at the pub having a chat with your mates about something you can't chat with too many people about!

In my opinion we should be grateful for what we have, however as there are so many railways they could do whatever era they like

I can't wait for Beachy Head to be completed and enter see it in traffic. That'll no doubt be a crowd puller. If they repainted it into Marsh Umber I would travel all the way down to the Bluebell just to see it (unless it went further north to place I could more easily get to). The rise in LSWR locos is also quite exciting. Since the T3 has been a success, we could now potentially see the return to steam of the T9, Adams Radial, the S15 and Normandy. Imagine what a gala of LSWR locos, all decked out in mint and chocolate green or similar liveries, would be like and how popular it could be. It could even inspire some railways to refurbish more vintage of their LSWR rolling stock.

Wishing you a very Merry Xmas and all best wishes for the New Year.

Was not expecting the cat cameo. But it was welcome nonetheless 😄

I am 63. My memory is Southern green EMU's and blue DMU's. I remember being on a steam hauled train to Weymouth in 1963, but only because my elder brother confirmed. Worth Valley will always have Railway Children as a selling story (Jenny Agutter once asked me about our 'Save The Odeon' protest at a showing of Railway Children' she came to in Bradford). . Every heritage railway has many, many, stories. Every story will be remembered, but only if told. Steam railways have a tiny attraction as leaky & carbon wasting things: but a massive attraction as the smell, sound, and taste of a passed, different world.

Personally, I’d love to see some 70’s and 80’s stuff. I grew up with HST’s, Pacers, Sprinters and loco hauled MK3’s in the privatisation era. I’d love to see networkers in their original network:SE liveries, I have fond memories of old regional railways livery sprinters running between Exeter and Exemouth in the 90’s. Earlier, and later is how I see things going.

@BritishRailProductions

7 ай бұрын

To see a heritage railway in BR pre-sectorisation would be amazing. Particularly a Western Region railway. Semaphore Signals from both GWR/BR Era would be acceptable as per the real thing. Totems we’re most certainly still on the network wel into the 70s/80s and signal boxes were kept in a variety of different cosmetic conditions. This would be mixed into “newer” signage. White signs with Black Railway Alphabet Number 1 lettering. Something that in itself is over 50 years old and really isn’t “newer” particularly after you see a photo of a Class 22 at Exeter St David’s in about 1971/72 with a “new” white sign proclaiming Exeter St David’s. Each to there own an all. Obviously as time moves on people move on and eventually the older generation will be those of my dads generation who remember the railways of the 70s/80s.

I do like the east lancs railway it captures the 50s and 40s on some stations and they have locos form so many different eras is nice to see them all can't wait know to to see the ivatt tender engine back in service

Personally, I love the 20s and 30s, but it's always cool seeing trains from the 1800s

Glad your back! Missed these `GTI`S` For me all liveries are good, but a full rake of BR blue MK2 coaches just looks right, particularly behind a Deltic.

Superb presentation of the issues Chris. Well done. 11/10.

Unbelievable. You used a clip a from the Railways at Work Gala and I wasn't in it! 😂 Another interesting topic Chris, it's a welcome change to the Preservation World I think, to see more era's being represented. I do hope that, for the enjoyment of others, the trend continues.

I regularly visit Heritage Railways. I’ve noticed that since everything has been painted BR black or green, Joe Public thinks they are all the same. So they are more interested in big names like Scotsman or Mallard. This could be why the Adams T3 hasn’t sold many tickets. Despite its stunning livery, the public have been conditioned to think all kettles are the same, except Scotsman and Mallard.

With 2023 as it's own entity. I suspect the cost of living issues have drastically affected the L3 launch as well

@coffeeee90

7 ай бұрын

What L3 😛 Joking aside, yes I believe that was likely a factor in her launch

@TenShine1productions

7 ай бұрын

@@coffeeee90 beautiful loco is beautiful loco lol

@theextremeanimator4721

7 ай бұрын

L3?

As an American in my honest opinion I think the 1900-1940 is one of the best Era's in British railroading history due to the sweeping changes they went through. I mean before ww1 the nation had well over 200 companies, after ww1 they went down to the Big 4. The big 4 were also partial to understanding their roots, especially of the bigger joint railways which helped make them like the Great Western being the only technical survivor of the pre ww1 grouping. In America our railroads were very bland in general. But if you had to pick an Era of "personality" then it would half to be from 1940-1970. This was the era of railroads being small enough to warrant individuality as well as making their own personalities, as well as distinctive liveries which made you say "oh its so and so railroad". After 1970 things just started collapsing and merging into corporations with an identity, but no real personality. We lost names like Pennsylvania Railroad New York Central The Southern Railway The Baltimore & Ohio The New Haven Railroad Southern Pacific Santa Fe Chicago & North Western ect ect and so on. But America went so hard on cars with the interstate system and air travel that our railway preservation is just not even comparable to lots of nations really.

The simple fact for me is that railway enthusiasts will care about specific eras - but for the general public there's basically "Modern trains", "Nearly-modern trains" (early DMU/EMUs and diesel/electric locos etc) and "Steam Trains". Average Joe on the street doesn't know the difference between Furness Railway No.20 vs Normandy vs Princess Elizabeth other than the size, and probably doesn't really care - they just want to to go to a heritage railway for a day out and see "a steam train". Whether that steam train is 60, 80, 100, or 150 years old *probably* doesn't matter too much to them, it all blurs into one as far as their historical knowledge goes

I don't really favour any one era over all the others, but in retrospect the pre-1948 stuff in the Eyewitness Trains book always seemed to stick out to me as a Canadian kid in the late 2000s/early 2010s, so from a young age the Big Four companies really stuck out to me as these elusive and almost mythical railways - especially LNER and GWR. I think going forward, some more pre-nationalisation and pre-grouping stuff could be a great way of drawing younger people to heritage lines by capitalizing on the brand recognition of those companies. Hell, mainline passenger franchises are still naming themselves after these companies _to this day!_ Southern (cough cough), GWR, LNER, even LSWR!

I personally prefer the liveries of the grouping and earlier. More variety in the colors. Take the Terriers or the P Class tanks on the Bluebell for example. They are all Victorian era designs that had been used into BR days and have a wide variety of liveries they could be painted in. For the Terriers, if Stepney were brought back into service (though I understand it would be unlikely to happen due to the engines age) the Bluebell could paint it in LBSCR Improved Engine Green, LBSCR Umber, Southern Green (both Olive and Maunsell) and BR lined and unlined black to match any era. Just a little time while down for annual maintenance every couple years to change things up. Or the Talyllyn Railway painting their engines in liveries other than their deep bronze green (Douglas being painted into RAF light blue, Talyllyn and Dolgoch being painted in TR red for their 150th and Talyllyn being painted in GER lined blue after this overhaul).

BR black or green. I'm thrilled about Beachy Head but less thrilled that she will be turned out in black. I'd like to see her in LBSCR colours.

Is there one thing about historic preservation you can't please anybody sometimes

Fantastic video

No joke after your last video I was kinda holding my breath. Good job

Great video

I think it's because previous enthusiasts were looking to relive their youth which was in the late steam era of BR. Now we have a new crop of enthusiasts who don't remember steam and don't have as much affection for BR liveries and are looking for something more interesting. I have to say I am in the latter category, not that there isn't a place for BR liveries and stock, just having more variation would be nice..

The BHR (Blaenavon Heritage Railway) captures the welsh industrial 1900s - 1930s period as it did used to be a welsh industrial area until the 1970s when Big Pit closed. Speaking of big pit the line runs services to on a short branch line to a station outside of the car park of the Big Pit musuem. Even during galas they tend to get steam engines that would’ve ran on the line as an example they had LNWR 1054 which at some point probably ran on the line in working days and in 1958 it passed a junction on the line so it kind of did. Every year they run a coal train which in the industrial area of furnace sidings and big pit it just looks perfect.

Good points made there. Yes, I agree that travel in older pre- and post-grouping rolling stock is a more interesting experience. BR mk 1 and especially mk 2 rolling stock is rather bland and a lot less charming than the earlier generations of stock. People flock to National Trust, English Heritage and many other properties to enjoy an historic experience and the same probably applies many of those who visit preserved lines, particularly non-railway enthusiasts.

For me, it's the LNER, LMS (GWR to a lesser extent) and the BR period that catches me the most. But I'm happy with anything that a heritage railway runs, seeing the amount of money and effort that goes into them, I can't complain too much.

I very much appreciate the breaks away from absolute "rarararara that engine was never in (colour it was never in)!!" Here in Victoria, Australia one of the most prominent preserved classes of steam are the K Class, of which 3/4 are in completely non-service colours of maroon, blue, and the one of my own heritage railway being green. The 4th one has even spent the last few years masquerading as the original K100 built 100 years ago! I'm not massively fussed on any exact era, as long as it's not all in black. And in terms of modelling, the explosion of obscure pregrouping engines in the last 5 years in all sorts of colours and shapes has been amazing. Seeing the T3 come out in 2023 is a stunning thing that makes me excited for what could come along next!

My favorite eras would be from 1890s to the late 1920s. Just a shame we can't exactly fully replicate it here in the states since most of the locomotives, rolling stock and infrastructure got ditched long ago for more modern equipment.

The same thing is happening in Ireland. It seems the 1970s and 1980s that dominated popularity is giving way. Many youngsters are either more interested in the the 50s and 60s or/and present day Perhaps for simular reasons as in this video too.

@OscarOSullivan

7 ай бұрын

To be fair the 1970’s to 2000’s is the most interesting era for me. I will miss the CIÉ 8100 dart stock.

@retrocd7991

7 ай бұрын

@@OscarOSullivan I’m not dissing the 70s-2000s. Sher I like it too. I just seems to me that the “done to death BR Black” that Chris mentions is very reminiscent of how I’ve heard the various iterations of Black and orange from 1973-2008 ish being treated by some of younger fellas. Most of them seem to be more interested in modern stuff 2013-now. But if they have a historic period that they like. More as more the case it seems to be the 1950s-1960s.

@OscarOSullivan

7 ай бұрын

@@retrocd7991 Nothing interesting post 2008 bar the Dublin to Cork Line, Dublin to Belfast and what little remained of goods.

I can't really pin down a favourite era, because it depends on the location and locos involved. I like that the Bluebell manages to balance everything by having vintage engines and coaches in their original liveries, BR engines in BR liveries paired with Mk1s, and the line being a physical timeline of its own history. But I also like when the North Norfolk had the B12 and N2 in Apple Green running with the Quad-Arts. But one that's not represented enough for me is the LNER era. There's not much LNER stock around compared to other regions, and there's even less LNER architecture. There's probably only three lines in the whole country with LNER-based signage: The North Yorkshire Moors, North Norfolk and Epping Ongar (Please let me know if I forgot any). And the Apple Green engines with the Teak coaches is so pleasant to look at, and comfortable to ride behind. I was fortunate enough to attend the Severn Valley's Autumn Gala with my parents, and the first thing we did was go on the Gresley Teaks behind Mayflower. I hope the NYMR keep their J27 in its LNER Black livery.

Really interesting video I was born in 1964 Yet I’ve always had an greater interest in big four ( particularly southern) Now I’m interested in everything before that It’s all to do with how society and transportation interacted There was so much variety

I'm a Yank who has never set foot in GB, and never saw an operational steam loco in-the-flesh until adulthood. (I'm old enough to have witnessed the closing years of the steam era had I been born and raised in GB or some other parts of the world.) Yet my interest in railroading begins and ends in the steam era, with a primary interest in British steam. Of the various British steam eras, pre-grouping is my preference, followed by grouping, with BR bringing up the rear. (I can't decide where to place the "early" era, except that it would likely not be dead last.) I tend to favor smaller to moderate-size locos over the behemoths of late steam. For good or ill, I lack the funds to financially support restoration projects and the like, though I like to think I would make periodic visits to preservation railways did I live in GB.

Something I’ve always feared is that one day steam engines will be too expressive to repair and heritage railways will no longer have steam locomotives that are actually ready to run

@hamshackleton

7 ай бұрын

I presume you meant - expensive! 🙂

I do like all eras for each of their nuances and stories that can be told and Will say BR has kind of been done to death (your comment on nostalgia is very fitting here) but I just hope that if we are to bring back more big four locomotives and rolling stock we do have the resources and manpower to restore these things (Teaks and the supply of the logs, more maintenance for older rolling stock, heck even coal and all that going forward). I do hope the NRM start negotiating and letting out a few more engines, progress is being made especially with 2500 (3 cylinder Stanier 2-6-4) now being at the East Lancashire and the T3 running again but it's just the manpower and money I'm mainly concerned about...

To be quite honest, I personally don’t mind the 1950s & 60s, however I really don’t mind like seeing heritage railways with a mixed bag of eras. I however like to see industrial tank engines with vintage coaching set as they look great in my opinion and not that complaining about it because I enjoy it. Also engines like the Adams Radio tank is a loco I want to see back so it can run with the only LSWR coach to re-create the Lyme Regis. I really am interested to see steam loco with eco coal & bio coal and in my opinion smaller tank & tender locos, while larger locos should be burning oil which would be interesting to see. I do like Flying Scotsman, but I do not want to be the very steam loco that comes to mind when it comes to steam. Speaking of the Lyme Regis branch, I kinda like to see both the Adams Radio & Ivatt tanks running in turn on the branch as it would be interesting to see. It the same story on the Bluebell as it is heritage that I see very interesting to see different eras from LBSCR days with Funchurch to 1950s with BR Standard Class 4MTs. One heritage railway that I really liked to visit the most is the Spa Valley as I kinda like the eras of the 1950s, 60, 70s & 80s because I really like the local services with a three or four coach trains with a BR Standard 4 tank to a 2 or 3 coach Class 205 & 207. That what makes Spa Valley special because of those eras, but personally I really like the railway using both main line & industrial tank engines to run on the railway even I do like to see the eras the railway represent.

I guess the preserved time period depends on the railway you go to.

the heritage railways in Devon and Cornwall have a great post war feel to them.

Isle of Wight Steam Railway has managed to encapsulated the 40s quite well with W24 Calbourne and the coaches painted in SR malachite. Hopefully when the two terriers will return to service the railway will have more of 1930/40 feel as there isn't a lot of BR rolling stock used.

the gcr captures the 60`s so well

I'm mostly a narrow gauge nerd, and I'm not particularly concerned with rolling stock accuracy. So long as I can get a comfortable seat for the ride, I'm happy! That said, it is nice to get the occasional historically accurate train, loco and coaches both, as they make for fantastic photography opportunities (which accounts for half the stuff I do at galas, as you've seen! ). So for special occasions, I think "heritage" services are great, especially for pre-grouping engines that are still operational. I just don't expect it to be an every day thing, since as you stated, it's unlikely to be practical.

Born in 1950, I prefer the steam era of my youth {1950-68} ...but ultimately, any choice of livery & era etc. is up to the owners of the loco, and the railway itself. They own the engines, and the RS, and the stations etc, they pay the bills, so I'm just happy to see the engines in steam & working, whatwever the livery/era.

Bluebell is smart, if you prioritise an older era then you might get more visitors. As someone who goes who goes to the bluebell, I love the grouping and pre grouping stock a lot more then the mk1.

Are you still planning on making that SOLO SLIP special on no. 563 that you mentioned on facebook a while back.🤞🤞

Honestly, if it runs off steam I’ll take it. But there is absolutely nothing like seeing one either in its original image or as it’s final days in revenue service.

It's a shame we don't have anyone like the Reverend W Awdry around today, to bring attention to unsung railways and their locomotives. The Tallyclyn and Bluebell likely wouldn't be around today if it wasn't for Awdry. Let's find someone who can do the same for other railways.

What does anyone think of the NCC Mogul project

In truth we're coming to a crossroads. If we want steam to keep going we have to either make the locomotives more Economical Fuel wise or we have to make the Machines less prone to failing out of commission or both. There are some "minor" upgrades that can be made to existing locomotives to give them a longer working lifespan, and then there's some "major" upgrades that might need to be done to make them all around economically as good as a Diesel electric in America. These are some hard choices that will need to be made.

@AnthonyDawsonHistory

7 ай бұрын

There's no way round the 'ten yearly' overhaul. The law states every locomotive must be stopped for boiler inspection and overhual every ten years. So every loco needs to earn as much money as possible to pay for its ten year boiler exam. If it doesn't then its fund raising to get it into a position where the boiler can be looked at and worked on. There's no avoiding it. And the ticket starts ticking away as soon as the boiler is inspected, insured and signed off. Doesnt matter if it's only run once, that countdown is still there. So there's nothing you can realistically do to stop locos 'falling out of commission' every ten years.

@Dallen9

7 ай бұрын

there's a way around it, no one is using there heads on it. the technology has existed since the 1930's and the patients were just hardly used. Boilers aren't need to run steam engines, they're just the oldest way to use a steam engine. I mean seriously you can do one Major upgrade to any of the running locomotives and they'd never need a boiler ticket ever again. so actually yes you can get out of it no one is going to want to put money behind making it happen cause purist ruin everything but it could be done.@@AnthonyDawsonHistory

@reely4580

7 ай бұрын

Very true! Even in the states, we have a Federal Railroad Administration mandated 1472 service day or 15 year inspection. Evidently, it must not be discussed much.... sorry for the buffoonery of my fellow Americans.

@Pentium100MHz

7 ай бұрын

@@AnthonyDawsonHistory That has to be expensive, but what about the ongoing maintenance of the locomotive while it is in use? IIRC one of the big reasons why steam was replaced in the first place was the cost of maintenance. Wouldn't it be possible to replace the bearings or some other parts that require a lot of maintenance with modern equivalents that last longer? I don't know the laws etc so maybe it would be too expensive to do so and instead it's better to keep the locomotive as it was originally built. A car example. My main car is an old Mercedes W123. It was designed to use leaded gas. Of course, leaded gas is hard to come by these days and the car was also modified to use LPG, because it is cheaper. Unleaded gas and especially LPG causes valve seat recession, so the valves had to be readjusted fairly frequently. However, later the cylinder head was modified to harden the valve seats. So now I can use the cheaper LPG to drive everywhere and not really worry about valves getting out of adjustment (they still do, but not as frequently as they used to). People in Wolsztyn keep the fire on for about a month until the boiler needs a washout to reduce the number of heat/cool cycles. That probably reduces the maintenance/repairs needed. Maybe some optimizations/modifications can be done to steam to reduce the running costs even though you still need to do the 10 year boiler inspection. Maybe it is already done, I don't know.

@AnthonyDawsonHistory

7 ай бұрын

@@Pentium100MHz Steam was replaced because it was filthy and labour intensive. It was ok so long as labour was cheap, which it generally was before WW2. After WW2, especially thanks to the Labour Government, working conditions improved accross the board but the railways didnt move on. A lot of the 'Windrush' generation worked in engine sheds doing all the filthy disgusting jobs which many white people wouldn't do because they were so poorly paid and filthy. And steam was OK so long as people didn't care about the filth and smoke. The Clean Air Act of 1956 and 1968 were designed to prevent emissions of smoke to literally save lives. Banning of coal fires, banning of locomotives making smoke. Smog in London and other big cities from coal fires got so bad people died from the pollution. Pollution is still a major issue. Steam needs to be seen to tackling the issue of 'polluting for pleasure' seriously. Clag, smoke bombs all of that are not good for the image. Need to off-set their emissions through tree planting, use of renewables, have an environmental policy. In terms of maintenance and operation the major cost, and I mean the major cost for steam is coal. It is now about £500/tonne. Lump coal is no longer mined in the UK because it's bad for the environment. Not just in the burning of coal but the filth, the spoil tips etc. So whatever coal is burned has to be imported from places like Kazakstan, Columbia or South Africa. We used to be able to import it from Poland but thanks to Brexit that avenue is shut off. And it's pretty poor stuff - smokey, sulphery and makes a lot of clinker. It's rubbish coal. The alternative is the use of renewable E-Coals, but they're still experimental and cost the same as coal. But they are better for the environment. It will be the cost of coal which kills steam in the UK. Small engines and older engines as Chris says quite happily burn ecoals, but it stills expensive. Big locomotives need a lot of coal and high quality coal which just isn't available any more. And Oil firing is a non starter. Bearings in most locomotives are plain bearings, that is gun metal with a white metal liner. Some new builds have sealed roller bearings but not possible to convert older locos nor desierable. BR Mark 1 carriages have either plain metal or roller bearings but again vintage stock nope. Goods wagons don't. The optimum locomotive for any heritage line I think is the 0-6-0ST Austerity. It will quite happily pull seven BR Mark 1s, will burn rubbish coal and still make steam. Easy to mainain so long as you have a pit. Can run along at 20-25mph quite happily. OK not a "namer" or "glamorous" and many of the train spotter generation don't consider them real locos because they're not ex Mainline but they're economical machines. Pannier tanks are just as good for reasons Chris outlined. The future isn't, I think, big engines. And I'd argue mainline steam is pretty much coming to an end too.

Give it a few more years and everything before the Class 37, 40, 43, 47, 101 or 08 will be part of the "forgotten" past.

I'd like to see more narrow gauge lines being rebuilt up as not only are they economically sound there is no point in making a 100+ mph engine in britain because unless hs2 is completed and expanded with a spare special track or stations to run it on the high speed line at above 100 mph there is no point building it and money is better spent on narrow gauge tramway lines.

Love these videos and such an interesting take on it all. It's the same in buses however our issue is flipped and living memory is thriving over the older stuff. Personally, I like all areas and each railway tried to portray one or a mix, or hosts events to portray certain ones. Tanfield does what it can and does it well to show a branch line feel in the 1890s - 1900s granted not on the same alignment as was. When I visit KWVR I can be transported from 1980s right back 1850s in one day and I like that jump to and from. My point is saying that is variety a bad thing no, but each railway should play to its strengths at the consensus of its members and not try too hard to produce something it can't!

I was born in 1950 and lived in SE London so for me it was a mix of Electric, Steam and Diesel with emphasis locally on Electric. For me the slam door Mk 1 single compartment was king, second was gaslit and swan neck electric lit platfoms, roaring coal fire waiting rooms in winter and most importanly the archetecture of stations. Whilst Dying in bed for a year at 5, I was lulled to sleep by the clang clang puf puff puff of Hither Green next to the Fever Hospital. I wonder if an old Mens Toilet was installed on a Southern themed railway with the open urinals and smell,would it be used? That was part of the Nostalgia, not the sanitised version we have now but the reality? It seems in preservation we have left out far too much of the reality.

Coming from Germany, we have the general problem of underrepresentation as a whole, no matter the era. But, even if one excludes this problem, it is literally how you said: Heritage preservation is centered around what the people remember. The core active preservation in Germany is based upon the 1960s and beyond. That generally means, the last days of steam, and a whole bunch of diesel and electrics. You have the 01 and 03 pacifics, the 44s, 50s and 52 decapods, and the odd few bunch of lone survivors of 64s, 86s, 41s, and so on. And all of them, without any exception, when operational, are either GDR Reichsbahn, or DB Bundesbahn livery. In the entirety of Germany, you can count up the pre-Reichsbahn grouping livery engines on one hand. Two, if you count static exhibits. Most of those either small local private railway locomotives, or the odd Prussian design in the old KPEV livery. And when it comes to coaching stock, you can look far and wide, it's either 1960s-1980s build coaches, or the odd few 1930s branchline stock that only survived to today because they got repurposed as permanent way vehicles in the 60s. The only place where I can genuinely find a heritage railway that would come close to British levels of historic representation, would be the railway near Minden, and the Saxonian heritage railways (the true heritage railways, not those that run daily services, because while they do represent the history, they mostly do so for income first, heritage second, but, fair given, seeing how they need to keep their steamers running on a daily basis and can't be picky), but for the rest? If they have an infrastructure of their own at all, they are already having enough problems keeping their rails, buildings and everything else in shape, than to bother with backdating things to an era where they might get backlash from the media for trying to showcase a time frowned upon by the nation as a whole (It might not happen to a nationwide extend, but there's always the chance that will scare people off from the idea).

The era of American railroads I'm currently interested in is the 1860's-1880's. Sure, it was an era of corruption and exploitation, but the locomotives are just so beautifully designed, and everything is far more colorful than the stark industrial 20th Century.

If you were to put a gun to my head, the pre-grouping era would be my choice. But I love the Big Four. And I even love the B.R. era. My ideal setup would be pre-grouping stations that remained unaltered through those periods. Then we can run anything of any era because it will fit. Eras 1-5 as we model railfans like to say all have something exciting. I must confess, I would rather take era 5 over era 4. I prefer the late crest to the early. There were more liveries (if we discount the experimental phase immediately following nationalization). And, while I will always take a steamer over a diesel. The early B.R. diesels were the most interesting, and the transition period from steam to diesel where both existed concurrently is also an interesting visual.

I am old enough to remember Steam on British Rail. I am bound to say it was awful! The trains were always very dirty. Poor old BR locos suffered terribly at the end - hissing steam ad leakig oil! In the modern era, Steam Locos on heritage lines are kept in apple pie order and the rolling stock is kept clean. In no sense does a heritage railway recreate the past. When you go to a heritage railway, you are just riding on an exhibit at a transport museum. The police have told me they do not allow completely accurate historical recreations, and that is illegal to cause a person to believe they have travelled back to the past! Any preserved railway can only be a museum because of this. As with model railways, it can be difficult to decide on what era to represent, but the fact that a historical reconstruction is not allowed legally is the explanation for the nonsensical and odd ball collection of locos and rolling stock at many preserved lines! Thanks for uploading.

The railway that I work voluntarily for, the Northampton &. Lamport RLy.; of which is known to be as a poor railway, but a happy one -- is based during the c.1960s with L.M.&.S.RLy. styling on the platforms. Though we are trying to get the MK. III and DVT going. But, the truth is, we don't really care about the era that the railway is based on. We run the trains to our advantage to provide a nostalgic service to the locals of the area. Only because we enjoy what we do and not for scoring heritage railway points.

I don’t know how much you will agree or not, as you’re not an extreme supporter of the little blue E2, but I say heritage railways and older locomotives in general could benefit if something like the Railway Series came about again in the main stream. Not all, but a lot of people enjoy the Talyllyn Railway because “ooh, there’s Skarloey!” or the Bluebell Railway because “ooh, there’s Stepney!” because they recognize those characters from the books, and later the TV show. Not every engine can go all over the world or star in a book or TV show, but I do think something to that effect would help bring people back to the heritage railways and see what great things they have to offer besides the “ooh, X character” factor.

My era to Model is 1948-1968 But got models for 1923 to 1947 (grouping) and Post 1968 But the main era is 1948-1968. BUT Love Loco out of Era

Thinking about how people get into being interested in trains. Especially steam powered locomotives... And the funding these railroads and railways need, It's fascinating that rail preservation hasn't gone all in on children's media. Although therein is the problem, a certain little blue engine and his friends had about five or so decades in print before exploding onto the scene, and the Polar Express is extremely niche, and Ivor, the railway children, and titfield are even more so. My parents did not really raise me on anything related to trains- other than watching Thomas on VHS or getting those "love those toy trains" videos from the library. Building interest in railroading needs to start young, but it's difficult when it's certainly something out of yesteryear- and depending on where in the world you grow up, your only exposure to steam trains might be a little blue engine that could, or is really useful- depending on the author. I don't know where I'm going with this, beyond the fact that it feels like in order to gain interest preservation railways in both the UK and US need to get kids interested, but with how intensive that is in of itself it's really not feasible for the railroads themselves to do it and must depend on the goodwill of parents, grandparents, and yes- donors with deep pockets.

I'm not really fussed about railway eras, as I like all manner of machines.

Re engines being life expired - as I understand it, locomotive identities stay with the frames. I think about 30% of Flying Scotsman's frames were replaced in the most recent overhaul, so does that make it 30% replica now? And therefore, when its next rebuild takes place and the same happens again, will it officially be a replica?

Squint, and you can imagine the post WW2 railway at most preserved lines. More difficult to recreate the ambiance of, say, railways in the 1880s. Then there's the perennial problem of express locomotives chugging along at 25mph, which kind of rules out the Race to the North. As with model railways, heritage lines require the willing suspension of disbelief to get the most out of them.

I think we need diverse liveries

Definitely Red, then 1989, or Speak Now... Oops, wrong 'Eras' debate!😉 So, Buckjumper 68619 painted in GER blue as Liverpool Street's East Side pilot around 1960 maybe sums up my interests best: I foremost love BR and the 'last hurrah' of steam, but there's a _lot_ to be said for the elegance and variety of the earlier eras they'd built on that still shone through it all, right to the very end.

This is an outrage, he said the word Camelot and nobody's mentioned the meme yet

My personal opinion? I’m not one to care about era, of course there are period specific locomotives that take my interest, but honestly I’m just there for the trains, if they look good, run well, and the day had was genuinely enjoyable then that’s all I can really ask for

In my own opinion I'd rather have a vodka and coke just for the holidays. But with the era. I honestly prefer the early presentation years when railways had fun and experimented. Like the keighthy and worth valley having a red ivatt or a brown s100 or even the bluebell having the gigantic Stepney name and the 55 painted on the bunker rather than a plaque. I get some people dislike that era but it seemed a lot more free than nowadays where a railway gets lambasted for painting something that is the slightest bit off from what it should be and people deciding there opinion is fact. But hey ho I'm just one human and my domain is the narrow gauge. And for that I prefer working days for the narrow gauge where things were weathered and used. Anyway best wishes Chris And merry Christmas all you fine people of the internet NEXT ROUNDS ON ME

From the point of view of an outsider, mainly due to me being from another country and continent to that matter, the pre-grouping era is rather interesting given the amount of different practices, infrastructure and design philosophy each railway had. Not to mention the rainbow of different and interesting liveries each of the 120 different railway companies had, especially speaking from the perspective that all of the railways in my country had nothing but a similar color and lining to BR Black since 1854. The only thing differentiating one company form another was the lettering, their terminus, the gauge they used and their preferred locomotive works in England to order designs of new engines, all up until 1948 when the railways were nationalized and the only thing that changed was the upkeep of infrastructure. For reference, the newest thing we got for steam traction was a pacific design that exclusiveley used Caprotti valve gear... from 1925 give or take, and these engines were run on and run down well into the 1980's, as my father once told me that as a young boy he remembered seeing some of the last steam hauled services in the late 1970's. In escence, if you have the option to have some variety, it is normally not a bad thing TL;DR: if you have the option, it isnt a bad thing to have some variety.

@OscarOSullivan

7 ай бұрын

Which country as Ireland our last in regular service steam locomotive was in July 1971 as a station pilot fairly common practice in Ireland, goods mid to late 1970 and passenger 31st of March commuter service at 17:30.

@josefrers8011

7 ай бұрын

@@OscarOSullivan Its in South America, more specifically, Argentina, the first train to ever run was in March 1854, and we still run Mainly on 5ft 6in tracks, most engines came from either the Vulkan Foundry or from Stephenson, some from Dubs & Co. The first engine in the country was a product of Beyer Peacock. The last services were the last calls on Stopping passenger services on now closed down branches on more remote parts of the country, circa 1980 to 1982, as the newest traction we had at the time were second hand EMDs imported from India, and all were used for either expresses to the north or on suburban duties in the capital and neighboring towns.

@OscarOSullivan

7 ай бұрын

@@josefrers8011 Thanks interesting I do think steam locos should have been kept in reserve in Britain and Ireland

In my opinions. 1880s to 1930s for mainline. In industrial, its the early 60s late 70s steam

Honestly? I don't really have a preference for era. Even if I've bemoaned the amount of BR liveries. I just like to rock up and support heritage lines and take photos and videos of what they offer. There are locomotives out there that I'm just happy to see, maybe even ride on, regardless of livery, like the Caledonian 439 Class from Bo'ness. Would I prefer her in Caledonian Blue? Absolutely. Am I glad I've seen her working? One hundred percent. I'm also a big fan of the "sectors" era of diesels and electrics, as well as some fondness of the early privatisation era. The latter of which led to the combination of a Midland Mainline Project Rio liveried HST Powercar and a Northern liveried Class 142 being photographed at Butterley and Swanick Junction on the Midland Railway - Butterley. If it's interesting, that's what will catch my attention, not what era it belongs to.

The LMS originally Midland railway client company Northern Counties Committee railway in what became Northern Ireland after world war two built 18 tank engines based on LMS designs of the era one of which the preserved number four had the honour of being the last in regular service steam locomotive in Ireland and the UK with the last such of the passenger services happening at 17:30 the 31st of March 1970. The M1 spoil trains lasted until near the end of the year and worked as a station pilot until July 1971 at York Road Belfast. I feel that with my generation and my parents generation of enthusiasts in Dublin will want a CIÉ Hoffmann Busch 8100 class dart set preserved possibly with different liveries. I think the Rail Preservation society of Ireland gets its livery right loco wise (think they should revert to the old coach liveries) they have a wide array of colours NCC black, CIÉ green, GNRI sky blue, CIÉ black and tan, GNRI black. I think a sole slip on NCC WT number four would be good as she has a very interesting history.

Personally, i genuinly don't have any specific era in BRITISH railway history i'd like to get time travelled into, in Poland tho, it'd likely be the PRL times, due to the lack of civillian documentation of the various locos operating. In Poland, from 1948(i think) to somewhere in the 70s(i believe), if one was to take a photo of any loco or 'strategic area', bam, straight to jail. Narrow Gauge Railways got especially affected by this, as documentation, even descriptive, is not much to go off of, especially when most Polish NG railways had German-built locos on them. There's multiple photos of the Piotrków & Sulejów Railway's numbers 1, 2, and 3, but only 3 photos of the number 4 exist, said photo being taken in 1946, and it was merely a set of photos after the engine derailed in Uszczyn. In conclusion, Poland's rly. history is sometimes more varied than British rly. history.

Lots of locos come different backgrounds I think thats good unlike over countries

@OscarOSullivan

7 ай бұрын

What do you mean

Once again, edgy & thought-provoking. The GCR take a similar approach to their station themes as the Bluebell.

Mdinights obviously, or possibly 1989......wait what Eras are we talking about? XD

I would gladly come across the pond to see the T3 at Swanage. A much cooler Loco than UP's ego trip big boy. We have an issue here in the US that idk if yall over in the UK have. All the railfans here care about are locomotives. So the museum I'm a part of that is focused on passenger cars may have some historic cars, but we get no volunteers because "you don't have a locomotive, you're not a real museum". Rather annoying because without the cars to make up the trains, those locomotives wouldn't have anything to pull.

@OscarOSullivan

7 ай бұрын

I am in Ireland so can’t say but coaches are just as loved but only really 1960’s to 1970’s coaches get run due to safety so that means 1950’s and prior coaches gather dust because there is only one broad gauge heritage railway.