Imo, you should never feel bad for buying from other brands. A competitive market is required for a fair market. Imagine how much gw would charge if they were the only company making minis. Plus, it feels good to support smaller mini companies, and it's great to see diverse minis on the playing field

@Hyper_Fox06

Жыл бұрын

Games Workshop have become disconnected from table top gamers. Their prices have turned away a vast number of potential players that have become interested through video games and even the upcoming 40k movie might create interest in a wider market. Then they see the price to make a basic game sized army and walk away or find an alternative game that is far less expensive. Games Workshop has a bar habit of being elitists only desiring a player base with vast sums of disposable income, that group of people has grown smaller and smaller with the cost of living and recessions. Hell they've screwed over and permanently alienated hundreds of players that worked in their stores and assembly lines when they fired almost the entirety of the US branch and most of their store staff. Many of them didn't need to work for Games Workshop because they had done well in the tech industry or whatever. The former VP from when I played back in uh well a long time ago was wealthy he didn't need to work at all but because he loved the games he helped run the American branch. They threw all of them out on their asses with little to no explanation creating life long grudges with a large number of the player base some the former employees and also their Friends who had come to their local store and played with friends who were suddenly gone. It was a mess and I still hold a pretty serious hate for the company for screwing over a lot of my friends.

I've made a full Bretonnian army with historical figures (and a few classic 80-90s miniatures for flavour). Empire is next on my list. GW can go lay an egg.

@taliesinmcgregor-sims1879

Жыл бұрын

What miniatures did u use if you don’t mind me asking, I did the same using footsore and claymore castings

I noped out of GW a decade ago and went totally historical, and the price points you are describing are just normal in that realm. People ask "How can you play all these different systems and time periods", and the answer is that when it's not a "walled garden" nobody cares where you buy your figures from, and they are cheap and cheerful. The value you get from the Victrix, Perry, Warlord, Gripping Beast, Fireforge etc plastics is wonderful. More than once I've essentially accidently started new armies by picking up random sprues/boxes at swap meets, which works just fine for smaller skirmish games like Saga. Right now I am finishing off Wars of the Roses stuff for "Never mind the billhooks", and that project started off by randomly buying a couple of boxes of Perry plastics 2nd hand (unbuilt) at a convention. The rulebook cost more than the army.

Victrix, Gripping Beast, Footsore Miniatures, and Perry Miniatures are stores I go to relatively often. I'd say they're worth it. You can even use some figures for a D&D character if wanted.

@johnbower7452

Жыл бұрын

To be fair I imagine you can use most fantasy or come to that real army minis for DnD. I used to have 12 GW Samurai models years ago; not to mention a priest of Khorne and an Ogre.

You simply can't beat Victrix for quality and service. Price aside (which is a massive bonus of historical miniatures) the sculpts are dynamic, clean and well produced. I can't recommend their kits enough from the Ancients right through to the new Napoleonic Cavalry. Also, the War Elephants, are just..awesome 😁

I am not really a GW buyer (it got me into the hobbie in the 2000s but now i use warlord games)..but the price as u found out is insane . I can see a time when gw will simply price themselves out..due to 3d printing or kit bashing. I am trying to put together a gondor army (I am doing it as a pallet cleanser as I have done a roman,celt/galish/dacia army, and Macedonian is under production)..but the price for gw figures is very off putting. (Example I got 27 models (gondor ones and metal ones for 50euro, for 24 of the plastic ones it work's out to nearly 3 euro a model , the 3 metal ones 12.50 4 euro per one. Compare this to warlord (victrix models are also good but I've never brought them but they are good value too). Before brexit I could get 20 roman models for 20 euro. Like i said earlier GW are going to price themselves out of a market if they dont offer some choice in poses and value for money.If I could get into 3d printing I would gladly use it

Victrix are the best 28mm miniatures on the market. Unrivalled sculpts, price and customer service. GW can't come close to Victrix

Man, once you step in the proxy world… you will never come back from it 🤣

@knoxminis1211

Жыл бұрын

As someone that's really gotten into 3D printing with Horus Heresy, you are not wrong, lol

@hansjohannsen6722

Жыл бұрын

Right! I got some super sexy robots that smear Gee dubs OEM into the mud

Great video. Thanks for all the purchasing tips. Happy holidays to you and yours!

To betray GW would imply that they actually trust you in the first place, or deserve our trust in them.

@mutantpig4218

Жыл бұрын

So true. And if the management of GW had any sense, they would stop fighting the "proxy war". They would come out with their own 3d printers, resin, cures etc and have the proxy creators buy GW licenses to sell GW and their own stuff with a GW approved logo. If you can't stop it, lead it.

@zacharyhawley1693

Жыл бұрын

@@mutantpig4218 See, but that would imply GW wasn't secretly run by monkies in a trenchcoat.

@TheTabletopMisfits

Жыл бұрын

@@mutantpig4218 Or here's an idea.. sell STL files you can officially use... and sell a license that verifies that the owner of the subscription is allowed to use the figs in play as long as they're subscribed.

@mutantpig4218

Жыл бұрын

​@@TheTabletopMisfits That's a good idea. GW wants to spend less on miniature production, transport and storage? Have the customers print the miniatures!

Honestly, customer loyalty to a company who makes this much money off of basically inflating prices beyond rhyme or reason is not warranted in my opinion. When you find someone who can offer arguably a better product for a cheaper price, you go ahead and buy those without remorse. Big gaming companies don't need your support. Small third party companies do.

Victrix models are quickly becoming one of my favorites! I'm just starting a Norman army for Lion Rampant 2nd Ed., and their Black Friday deals got me a huge amount of minis for reasonable amount of money. Including cavalry, command options, auxiliaries and 60+ rank&file models with almost too many options. I'm basically building an army and a half (11 units at 45pts total), allowing me to field a variety of units - and warfare approaches - right off the bat.

@xenomorph6961

Жыл бұрын

Just had a look at the website for Victrix and those models are excellent. Not only that but the prices are very reasonable.

The shot of intermixed GW and Vitrix minis is very interesting; I really couldn't spot the difference.

Ps you can find Victrix figures from UK based shops online or in store all over the UK for £25 per set of less. Some have free post on orders of £20 or £50 which is easy to do if you buy 2 sets. Merry Christmas and keep gaming.

@Kevin-nb1oj

Жыл бұрын

Url?

Victrix are the finest manufacturer of plastic miniatures in the world imho.

ESO: "i want to play the dunland scenarios, but i can't". GW Store: "yeah nah we cant let you use off-brand minis no matter where they are from its against the rules". i mean from what ive heard most GW stores wont let you use non GW minis in their store. upside is you dont need GW.

@cameronwixcey9692

Жыл бұрын

I don't think many let you play there full stop since covid

The Zombicide Murder of Crowz is a great stand in for the Crebain. There is also the Armored Roman Auxiliary Archers for something closer Dunlending Archers

@Edward-Plantagenet

Жыл бұрын

Been hunting for that for ages. Sadly OOP now unless you can find some stock kicking around.

Great video! Would love to see more of this project!

And this is why i turned my back on GW years ago...3d printed models and alternative companies...alot cheaper!

Can I ask what you did for Dunland warriors? They normal have fur on their caps and the set from Vitrcks don’t have enough in there

i'm doing the same thing with an Imperial Guard army, i love the OOP and obscure regiments such as voystran first born, Valhallan ice warriors, Pretorian guard and steel legion. Im using a mix of wargamers atlantic minis and etsy so far i'm about £200 in and have nearly 2k points in infantry alone...............and a lot of painting to do lol

Given that Tolkin was a professor in Angli Saxon history and sagas, the fact that GW would want to copyright concepts that Tolkin himself drew from history is of cause land war in Asia level of stupidity. The Rohani where for intent and purposes Saxons and his northern Raiders would be heavily based on Vikings, because that was his professional bread and butter!

Honestly, going to buy some of those miniatures! They looked great! Nice video!

That was pretty entertaining! I definitely couldn’t tell the difference between the painted Victrix & GW figures, so buying the Victrix army at 1/6 the price is a no-brainer. I’d never seen Victrix minis up close before and these looked fantastic. Are their other ranges as good as these? I’m in the US, so I don’t see these for sale… pretty much anywhere, but I’m sure there must be someone over here who sells them. To the internet! 👆

@andrewpennington9221

Жыл бұрын

The Victrix plastics range is amazing. Quality sculpts, loads of options and fantastic value for money.

Gripping Beasts also has a really good selection of Dark Age miniatures including Picts. Picts are great for adding even more variety.

The dream for me has allways been some sort of multi-pose multi-option plastic lord of the rings set

You don't owe GW anything! Welcome to the hobby :)

@vanpallandt5799

Жыл бұрын

As a historical gamer now, its also interesting to see how actually its not 2 hobbies as GW sometimes imply, but one..wargaming. Even historical metals are cheaper than GW and there are also other companies doing both useable historical plastics and also specific 28mm fantasy plastics. Years ago went into an indy but in those days essentially GW products shop and when i said i played Imperial Romans and Dark Ages i think the persons eyes almost glazed over..now a friend said went to local GW and was talking Napoleanics..plus i think lots of ppl do stuff like WW2 Bolt Action in 28mm. So manyvof the historical sculptors etc and co. owners came from GW anyway

I'm literally copying everything you're doing here! Just got my vikings and putting them together, where can I get capes/ cloaks from ?

I'm looking at building my first army, I've decided to go with Rohan. I'm definitely going to proxy 90% of the army to get it up and running faster.

Nice 1. You are doing Warhammer stuff now. Cool mate. Love me some Warhammer. Its always been there down the years with lore and minis. Hope Henry Cavills project comes good. If he does some new characters that would be cool. Happy Chrimbo Danno.

Games Workshop mini prices vary from expensive to ridiculous, when they can even be bothered to stock them. And Forgeworld's prices are even worse. And frankly the "special" figures that you need - the heroes and leaders - don't cost much more to cast, but they have the nerve to charge multiples of the already crazy high cost per figure for those hero figures. Games Workshop is not your friend, it's more like your dealer. Predatory prices and poor stocking is two good reasons to bail on them, so join the crowd.

Good video. The route I would DEF have gone down had I been doing a full Dunlending army. I only use them as a small contingent in an Isengard army though (to the extent that I didn't actually want 60 infantry) so bought the GW offerings. The only problem I found with the Victrix set is that there's no archer option (even though the archers are pretty garbage in MESBG, esp compared to Uruk bows). If I wanted Dunledning Horse I'd def go for the Victrix option. I still probably should have bought the Victrix set though as it would give me the option for the Wildmen. Where other figures are concerned (Morgul Stalkers, Black Numenoreans and Morgul Knight Dismounts etc) I have zero guilt about using STLs given GW can't be bothered to stock them. It's like "Don't use anybody else's stuff, just be content with the stuff that we used to stock". I'm sure there's someone in GW bleating "I told you we shouldn't have gone for the Viking vibe, we can't TM Vikings".

At 2:56 - I don't think Duncan is worried - he's been doing plenty of non-GW figures on his Painting Academy site and covered one of the exact same Victrix Vikings a few months back! I'm currently painting up a set of their Huscarls.

GW's prices are why I moved over to Bolt Action. For the price of about 1 army in 40k, I can get 3-4 fully functional armies in BA, depending on who your preferred mini-supplier is.

There's being conned and then there's going out of your way to be conned.

Most expensive? Have you seen the prices for Iron Hills?

This is why I dislike GW GREATLY. There over price miniatures is disgraceful, if I was interested in playing with there rules I would be buying other manafactures miniatures. I've not bought any GW miniatures in over 15 years and I couldn't be happier.

i like the army of dead but refuse to pay the price for the cavalry so I did some minor conversions of some riders of Rohan and job done money saved also there are tones of company's out there that do historical or fantasy that would stand in well and save you a lot of money

I always mix my models. For 40k left over parts from astra militarum, I use wargames atlantic bodies. Also 3d prints, some are better than gw. Mix and match, make your own and have fun. Plus the fugly catachan, just bought some stunning "jungle fighters" or "spacenam" from etsy.

GW can pound sand. They gave up on supporting the hobbiest gamer long ago. It's silly that a company who's products are diravitive works is so rabid about protecting their IP and keeping the prices unafordable at the same time.

I had a choice a couple years back.....Continue busting a gut at work to pay for my GW plastic crack addiction or buy a 3D printer and print my own....I did just that! I bought a Mars 2 3D printer and now have a whole bunch of armies that cost me a fraction of what they would if i had bought them from the Grasping Wankers and i haven't been anywhere near a GW shop since!

It was the price of GW minis that made me quit playing their games because of the number of wee knobs who moan "you can't use that it's not an official GW figure." Gimme historical minis anyday. Victrix are bloody lovely minis by the way👍

Go and look at PERRY MINIATURES. Great mini's with alot still being metal.

victrix is fantastic, I hope they increase their range

Get a burnout castable resin. Do a vacuum casting of the miniatures, and you have your metal miniatures. Copy VOGMAN, he can cast with metals. If they really do have to be castable. Also an 8k printer is a must in my opinion when you have 40mm characters to print. I really like the minatures you bought. Great! Greetings, Jeff

Betrayal? Brother GW betrayed us long ago. Rise up in rebellion. RISE UP AGAISNT THE FALSE GODS! EMBRACE THE POWER OF PROXIES! EMBRACE THE 3D PRINTER AND MDF!

Never feel bad for buying a similar looking product of better quality for a lower price. Punish the greed and laziness of games workshop, especially when it comes to resin model. Their resin minis have no right being as bad as they are considering the price.

Check out the Iron Hills army, I reckon that must be as expensive, if not more so.

Iron miniatures are being treated like Fallout 5. Left in the mud while the others get famous and popular. Damn, I'm waiting for Starfield but i need my "I don't want to set the world on fire"

I wish there were 40k versions as well. Paying up to $40 CAD for one single unit is highway robbery.

As a non player, I always find myself thinking that the miniature on the table is just a visual representation of a particular units stats. So, if you're playing in a non tournament setting amongst friends it shouldn't matter what proxies you use. I mean, if everyone at the table recognizes what the unit represents you could play any GW game with Lego figures.

@someblacktemplar

Жыл бұрын

So are you telling me I can play kill team with marshmallows because that’s awesome

@Commodore22345

Жыл бұрын

The reason a lot of players have a problem with proxies is because it breaks immersion. A lot of players play because they like the setting of a particular game and want to feel like they are actually in that setting when playing. So if you show up with models that aren't from that setting, it breaks immersion and kinda ruins the experience for the other player.

As a 40k player, a 3D printer was an amazing investment. Between the stupid cost of models (especially generic HQ ones) that also don't included enough special guns to kit them the way I want (honestly don't let me take 3 of a specific option and only include 1 in the pack, I'm not buying 3 kits to make a single unit) and terrain it has definitely saved me more money than that initial cost of the printer. Also use it for DnD stuff so really just a good investment. I don't have an issue supporting first party IP, but GW really makes it hard to ever defend them anymore.

Just checked what I would need to do for my Isengard army I wanted to make. A massive blocks of spear, sword and shield and arbalests. Like an Isengard army from Battle for middle earth. It is soo expensive.

@Commodore22345

Жыл бұрын

MESBG isn't really meant for large armies. It's a skirmish game intended for each side to have around 20 to 30 models at most. Right now a battle company of Uruk-Hai, which contains 20 models costs about $50 USD. Or you could buy the Isengard Battlehost for $90 and that gives you 48 models including the heroes you'll need. So for $90, you have a complete army for MESBG. That's actually pretty cheap for a mini wargame, especially when compared to how much you have to spend to get a complete army for GW's other games that require a lot more models at much higher prices.

I used to love GW...back when I could get 20 Skeletons, 8 Riders, and a chariot for $32.00! If I had known back then what the prices would be doing just a decade later, I would have filled a warehouse with cheaper models and either built or resold them for a mint!

@kmoecub

Жыл бұрын

Back when they would show customers how to build pieces that there weren't models of yet.

I unfortunately had to spend just about as much to build out a Northern Dwarf Army from GW/FW Hobbit series. Goats, chariots, and all…

I really miss the metal Galadhrim guards. In my opinion they have the typical Alan Lee art style.

I have 16 dogs of war regiments nib .The prices on them are phenomenal and now I am loathe to paint them .

love the creativity in this video 👍👍

Wargames Atlantic have some really great figures including Dark Age Irish that are perfect for Dunlendings.

Wargames Atlantic has some awesome low priced plastic figures as well. I don't go to tournaments anyway.

I get that this is a joke video, but I still find it odd that the GW brand has such a cult like following. Some people honestly think GW are the only company making models, which is baffling in this day and age. The Victrix kits are lovely, I prefer the Northstar Miniatures range as they seem to have even more options on their kits. But yeah, those GW prices are absolutely insane.

I basically did the same with wh40k. Didn't like how mtg would have megatron or walking dead or stranger things, too much, etc, so sold out n got into wh40k to paint an army but bought older models that are firstborn and not primaris. I'm having fun painting tho

No matter what we were playing. My friends, myself and other kids / people were playing with used what ever we had. Official products or other wise.

We are on the same page I think with those Viking models

Other than the audio books I don't think gamesworkshop have any value for money

As an ex-commission painter, I would often do projects that match GW with the job of making them look as much like GW stuff as possible. Wasn't hard. Sometimes the hardest part was making a better model look as crap as GW's. Even when I had a bit of time to do my own projects, I often mixed GW model sets to make unique armies. My Slaanesh look like sexy elves, not crabs. I had an enitre female Dark Eldar force using only the female Dark Eldar pieces and mixing them with Witch Elves. It's not hard to mix and match other company's pieces into the make-up as well. They can't complain about an original GW body supporting non-GW pieces. The end of the day, if you model things, paint things and use lots of putty/green stuff, they wouldn't even bloody know. And I never let other people touch my models. Looking is done with the eyes - then they really can't get close enough to nit-pick.

you can use saxon infantry to build this army, far cheaper then games ripoff.

3rd Ed WHFB is it for me. Nice simple army book too. Black Tree Designs has most of Harlequins old miniatures, fits right in with older metal.

When it comes to MESBG, the reason GW gets super aggressive about alternative miniatures is because of the licensing agreement they have with Tolkien Enterprises and New Line Cinema. The licensing agreement that allows GW to produce stuff based on Tolkien's works explicitly states that they will not allow alternative miniatures or conversions to be used with the game. So GW aggressively tries to stop people from using alternative miniatures for MESBG because it could cost them their licensing agreement, and would thus kill the game altogether.

try looking at Victrix vikings

Some 300 Bucks for a GW army bought store new is actually pretty cheap. In reality when you want to start an Army for mesbg you look on eBay and find tons of minis for less than half the sales price. When you're looking at 40K you spend a minimum of 500 bucks for 2K points, similar with aos. Mesbg is really cheap in comparison even when bought directly from GW

Wait till you hear about the rangers of the north, which don't exist anymore, and everyone reselling them is booting the price up almost as badly as games workshop does.

This is I like Batteletech. Buy manuals, in manuals it state that you need miniatures, or you tokens, or whatever, or build your own. As long as everyone agrees that this bottlecap is Atlas mech it's Atlas mech.

I love it when ESO does comical videos, he's hilarious!!

Dude - I have Front Rank Miniatures metal knights on Bretonnian horses. Also Front Rank HYW archers and billmen.

@MrVuvuzaala

Жыл бұрын

I've recently been purchasing figures from Front Rank, too, and have just finished painting up some Dutch Dragoons (van Eppinger's Rgt.), from The Irish Wars of 1689 to 1691: 3x mounted Dragoons + an Officer, and 4x dismounted + a Sergeant. They are wonderful sculpts, that required very little prep work, and have been a real joy to paint, with exquisite detail. Next up, on the paining station are 8x Jacobite Musketeers + Sergeant (Eustace's Rgt. of Foote). I'm building up troops for both sides of that conflict and hoping to solo game, using the Donnybrook skirmish rules/scenarios that are produced by League of Augsburg 🎨🖌👌👍😊

i really really want to start with this hobby but everything i go and check what i can order from GW i fall down my chair and start feeling confused about these horrendous prices. They are really really turning me off from starting this hobby

I think that it's safe to say that I've officially been converted.

Ps looked at new heresy prices , I am quite well off but I’m not stupid ! I’m not even going to bother. The plastic prices are like forge world prices ! What’s happening ?

Are you into Warhammer 40k, or horus heresy? It would be awesome seeing you paint some space marines or perhaps an army? ^^

@ESOdanny

Жыл бұрын

Ive got a black templar army in the back burner while I finish up my LOTR backlog. But that video is definitely coming at some point!

@TheWolfDude91

Жыл бұрын

@@ESOdanny Yay, that is awesome to hear, can't wait. Thank you for the reply. Cheers!

The forbidden plastic of the Game is a pathway to many miniatures Games Workshop consider to be unnatural... and cheap.

Well, LOTR is 25mm not 28mm... it was made on purpose, so people wouldn't use WH:Fantasy miniatures in LOTR and vice versa. Fantasy, AOS, 40K, kill team, Mordheim, etc are 28mm, although 40K suffers from scale creep and now it's more like 32.

@ESOdanny

Жыл бұрын

LOTR is not actually 25mm when you compare it directly to 28mm ranges though.

Games worskhop most expensive army would be one consisting of 1warlock bombardier and 25 units of 5skryre acolytes. The wholesome of this 2k army would you cost you 1’517.50 english pounds

So I’ve just bought 150 quids worth of romans after finding Victrix miniatures from your video. Don’t know whether to thank you or not 😂

IMO those models at 2:07 look like more "historically accurate" (if that makes any sense) riders of rohan.

@FlorentWyne_

Жыл бұрын

Thats essentially what they are lmao

And this is why I very rarely buy GW stuff anymore. Excellent video which only confirms what my friends and I already had discovered.....

Eso I love your gaming videos then you get better when I discovered this channel but I have 1 question do you make kids KZread videos as my son is either watching you or some one using ai of your voice

@esotabletop

Жыл бұрын

Not that i'm aware of XD, i'd be interested to hear the AI that sounds like me though!

@stevejofthewoods6776

Жыл бұрын

@@esotabletop litrelly is you no joke not some one that sounds like you. I will find the channel and leave a link on this

Holy Molly send me the STL Files and I will print them for ya for Half the Price

Nuts to GW feelings. They betrayed me first.

Gamesworkshop don't exclusively own wargaming or plastic miniatures.

The Victrix miniatures and there are lots of different sets are easy to customise and are the same size as GW. Outside of UK GW figures are hideously expensive and we are even forbidden from buying any GW figures in UK. In my opinion there are far better LOTR minis outside GW look at 3D printing such as the excellent range by Marbury Miniatures.....well done

@paulwalker5221

Жыл бұрын

Medbury Miniatures.

Yep too expensive I love Victrix and other historical for fantasy been playing opr .

A full warhammer army typically costs about that much too

@georgeschmall9254

Жыл бұрын

LotR armies are only 1,000 points or less....

@minacapella8319

Жыл бұрын

@@georgeschmall9254 ok but points don't translate as much as price. Is it less models?

This is why I don't buy GW anymore, and yes folks there are tons of other companies out there that cost less money. 🙏😇🇺🇸

In my opinion, these miniatures are not cheap. GW ones are overpriced. Great video!

This is exactly what everybody should be doing. 👍👍

Gotta love Historicals. No licensing to pay out, and loads of “content” to pull from. What you are paying for are good sculpts and plastic.

Not brought or played a GW game for years. Then again most of nt inis are from the 80's.

Most expensive? You haven't looked at the prices for warlord titans for 40k

Man has clearly never played Knight titans.

Love everything about this lol. Your quality is astounding, and I didn't even know Victrix was a company! Those dudes look awesome.