Between GW and Hasbro, no matter who wins, we all lose.

@august3777

5 ай бұрын

Yeah. It seems as Hasbro continues to draw more hate, everyone seems to forget issues with Games Workshop has had over the year, and now they are the good guys.

@Talkshowhorse_Echna

5 ай бұрын

True that. In both cases the customer looses. I would love to see much more love for all the smaller companies out there with well made systems of their own.

@mikefett5989

5 ай бұрын

I won't give games workshop money. If D&D fails, I'll go to the brand that just re released the zagyg book.

@sadis72

5 ай бұрын

⁠@@august3777 Oh trust me, GW isn’t even close to being the good guy. WOTC is hands down the lesser of two evils. GW under produces product, rushes their editions, balance is ridiculously abysmal, You have no idea if you’re going to get to play with your codex for 1/2 years or 6 months… GW has the utmost disgusting business practices and even the GW KZread channels can’t say otherwise and are saying the same things. 10th edition launch was shit, their main website is the worst website I’ve ever tried to use. He was on warhammer community which is 10x better than their actual website and doesn’t even come close to the experience you would get if you try to find something you want on their main site. WOTC push to go online isnt good at all but I’d chose to buy the players handbook knowing I have 10 years is a godsend. New editions every 3ish years is the worst like GW. WOTC lets you produce and make money of their products, almost no other company allows that. GW definitely not lol. Of course they’re going to try to make it more towards their favor AI art scandal and OGL is nothing compared to all the GW BS and shit business practices I play CSM, death guard and world eaters for 40K and have zero urge to play 10th with how 10th rolled out.

@fullofmyself1

5 ай бұрын

C'mon guys, they (GW) won and so did they (H).

You know...when you're being compared to GW, and are being told "Look at them. They are better than you," you've really done goofed.

@alexisglaab2572

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, in my 25ish years of being interested in GW properties, I had never seen people praise GW as a company until Hasbro aquired WotC.

It's bad when Games Workshop has become less controversial than Wizards of the Coast.

If WotC wants to push everyone to DND beyond, all links should just point there. Broken links on a billion dollar company are inexcusable.

@GladeRiven

5 ай бұрын

At least auto-forward the DnD site to the DnD Beyond site...can't even do the bare minimum.

@tygereyes

5 ай бұрын

Yup!

GW is not necessarily a pillar of ethical business, but they employ lots of writers, especially novellists and short story writers, and they know the value of good writing. Perhaps that's why there are so many articles: they value writing.

@darthkek1953

5 ай бұрын

GW realise Lore drives sales of Plastic. The day they forget that will be the day the company dies.

@Aenarion28

5 ай бұрын

Their writers are also competent.

@yostaustin

5 ай бұрын

Lots of artists too for the codexes and art they make for the various armies factions characters and books. The books are also very well made. I personally think they are doing a great job.

@WompaStompaCyn

5 ай бұрын

GW values writers... But not enough to credit them.

Games Workshop might have decent marketing and IT team but their outrageous price gouging , aggressive planed obsolescence of their books and hostility toward fan content creators still makes them quite unliked by the community.

@paytreonsuhks

5 ай бұрын

unliked not linked lol but yes youre right

@Aenarion28

5 ай бұрын

On the brightside, they purge activists before they can infest the company with DEI heresy.

@SkywalkerOne1977

5 ай бұрын

planned obsolescence?

GW has a bad reputation for their retailer-facing business practices, but the actual quality of their products are top-notch.

I am wondering if Hasbro fired the entire WOTC media team and no one is actually working on the webpage anymore.

Stephen is not wrong. Love them or hate them, Games Workshop is giving both customers and future customers a reason to be engaged with their products and brand.

Games Workshop is absolutely handling it better than WotC/Hasbro, but we have to keep in mind they're fully capable of awful practices too. Including but not limited to: - Rushing the End Times where they blew up Warhammer fantasy and rushed out Age of Sigmar which put a lot of salt in already existing wounds. - Rigging statistics to make it look like Chaos won more in official tournaments even though they were getting bodied (GW's fault for not updating Chaos rules) - KILLING OFF FAN ANIMATIONS AND FORCING THEM TO BE EXCLUSIVE TO THEIR OWN PAID STREAMING SERVICE. I'm especially salty about this one and will continue to be. - Attempting to copyright basic words like 'Space Marine', among others, which was challenged in court and I believe they lost. What followed was the asinine copyrighted names like 'Aelves' instead of Elves. - They apparently rush their animators to meet unrealistic deadlines, resulting in a lot of crunch time. - More recently, they're also cutting back on the amount of lore and artwork included in their Codex books compared to previous editions. The 10th edition Tyranid Codex has the same art as the 9th Edition Codex, without anything saying that it's 10th edition except some pictures of new mini's on the back.

@PalleRasmussen

5 ай бұрын

Thank you for summing it up. I was unaware as I was never interested in Warhammer in any form.

@Sephvion

5 ай бұрын

And the year after year price rises, across the board, even on models that have made its initial investment back in spades. They also jacked up prices during COVID of all things, because why not. People were stuck indoors, so they'll have to do something.

@thomasace2547

5 ай бұрын

The rehashed Tyranids book is a great reason why I’m not playing 10th Ed

@TheExcessus

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, maybe if you fantasy fans would have bought actual models the End Times wouldn't have happened. WHFB was a dead game and needed renewing.

@Leofilmperson

5 ай бұрын

​@@TheExcessus If GW had bothered updating ancient sculpts, maybe people would have had a reason to buy more minis. EDIT: All the uncopyrightable names were the real reason for nuking the setting of course. AoS gave GW a free ticket to invent a bunch of nonsense words to make 3rd party alternatived unsearchable. The end times happened regardless of the numbers.

Just an FYI, those Warhammer core army sets also come with the core rulebook which is $50 by itself. Also, this is the first appearance of Warhammer Fantasy rules since 2015 when it was killed off and Age of Sigmar was introduced.

GW while absolutely not your friend do actually seem to have remembered that they need to engage with the people they are selling things to, something Hasbro/Wotc seem to have forgotten a while ago

@darthkek1953

5 ай бұрын

GW are your pimp but a pimp who has your back.

nowhere are we hearing anything about the upcoming D&D 2024 release.

As someone who plays Paizo products exclusively and spends a lot of time on their "website", no truer words were spoken in this video than "Paizo's had some issues with their site for quiet some time." Id love to see/help with their "major redesign with their site, yet again." 😂😂☠️🤣🤣

Dungeons & Dragons website trying at every corner to ask you to go to Beyond, meanwhile I regularly forget Paizo's equivalent platform, Infinite, even exist. What's really terrible on Hasbro's side, it's that engagement with 1D&D5E²(2024) (or however it will be called, I'm still not sure we have an official answer on that) will probably be absolutely crucial for saving the whole Hasbro ship from their financial struggles. The fact they still seem to be paralyzed on communicating on this major project should be both demoralizing and worrying for D&D 5E fans. I don't even understand how they don't start big preorders and community events and stuff to at least try to piece together a hype train. Hell, even a hype tricycle sounds like something Hasbro need right now. It can only let you wonder what nightmarish chaos is cooking behind the curtains of the kitchen.

@jeromeace1282

5 ай бұрын

Something to keep in mind. DnD beyond has basically replaced the DnD website in terms of where the stuff Stephen is looking for gets posted. The reason it's trying to redirect isn't just because they want you to buy things, it's because it's effectively replaced their main site.

It's important to choose proper wording when you calling GW better. They are better at their business making money and milking their fans, but not ethical business practices. GW isn't as lunatic as Hasbro, but they have their own problems.

Worth mentioning the GW is pretty unpopular for its latest version of Warhammer too. Maybe they're doing well due to price goughing, but they arent really loved either. But comparing to Paizo is a very valid comparison.

The fact that GW made *SO* much money they decided to give out bonuses to everyone who works for them Think about it

@thaliahelene

5 ай бұрын

Doesn’t that remind you of the behavior of PepsiCo when formula New Coke originally came out (I’m old to remember). They gave them the week off and a small bonus.

The spam releases from Games Workshop lose some of their charm when you actually examine them. For example, the old world release box for Tomb kings, you get the rulebook and 93 models, here in Australia it's $490 AUD which is $330 USD. It's $5.27 per model. But the real kicker is only 2 of the 93 models are new. 91 of them are literally 20-30 years old, they have the copyright dates stamped on the sprues ranging as far back as 1993. So the high price is completely unjustified, they haven't had to put any effort in to new sculpts or manufacturing new tooling to produce the models, they just drag the old tools out of storage, quadruple the price that it used to cost and go to town.

Games Workshop has the whole package, video games, fiction novels, war gaming, role play gaming, Henry Cavill, miniatures, paints, fantasy games, epic fantasy games, science fiction settings. Many of these things WotC has but just isn't as great at marketing/monetizing. MTG is really what keeps WotC going strong in my opinion but even with that they cannot seem to keep good will from players

@Mithguar

5 ай бұрын

It comes down to main product. GW whole business model is around their miniatures and selling lot of them as well as tools, paints and so on. WotC product can't be monetised like that since the product itself isn't as collectable. GW games are not for poor people. And I think what really sells GW products is setting of Warhammer, both Fantasy and 40k. Grim dark with no woke politics, no identity BS. In world full of war, stuff like identity politics don't matter since most people living in these worlds are disposable. It's dark, it's cruel and it's over the top. There are no good guys. GW proved to be immune to woke activists attacks since GW knows where the money is coming from.

@HeribertoEstolano

5 ай бұрын

@@Mithguar You're definitelly right. Miniatures are the main product of GW while Fluff (Novels, Lorebooks and Rulebooks) are just incentives for people to keep buying minis like and advertiment that you have to pay for them. As for Paizo having a better uptaded Site, there's a saying when you work with advertisment: the brands that are on not on first place allways have to work harder on their marketing, and most of the time, they're great clients to work with because they're willing to take more risks in their campaigns. People will allways coment on how Pepsi ads were more creative than Coca Cola, or Burguer King over McDonalds when in absolute numbers these companies have most of the time being second place. When you're on first place, you can't take many risks, and when It comes to D&D they're so far over the competition that they don't even need to do much. Don't get me Wrong, I don't play D&D and I hate the hegemony the game has on the TTRPG marketing. But companies like Paizo have to make a huge amount of effort in their marketing to keep up on the market.

@silverwolf5101

5 ай бұрын

@@HeribertoEstolano I was thinking the same thing. I also think Wotc are relying on youtube channels to do their advertising for them. Still it does not look good, that WoTC are releasing new core books this year, and no one really knows what to expect (most of all WoTC I suspect)

@darthkek1953

5 ай бұрын

@@Mithguar Armies are expensive, but a Combat Patrol is affordable (IMO) and is it's own full mini-army with its own rules. Then there's Kill Team, which is smaller. The smallest teams are six, yes six, Space Marines. And usually you can build a Kill Team, let alone several, from one Combat Patrol box. I think the OPR for 40K is superior, but Combat Patrol is as-good as OPR and Kill Team has free rules and is WAAAAAY better than the OPR Firefight rules.

Hasbro, Fired half of there creative team right before the launch of the new game. 😢

One thing to note: the Magic side of WotC is better organized, concerning news articles and such. Not perfect by a long shot, but better.

MtG and Warhammer both have daily pulls. Every week has something significant to players. Whereas DnD can't find anything in the past *year* that's worth clicking on now. Sounds like something more staff could have helped with.

I think I have decided Roll for Combat should work with Gaming Ballistics, LLC and Steve Jackson Games and build campaign material for GURPS...

I'm going against the world again but this price is not bad - in fact it is the best deal I have seen in years. So you get a $70 book. Which brings you down to $220. You get 86 archers and foot warriors and horsemen. For special characters 1 tomb king, 3 chariots and a dragon. Even if you price each model the same (which equals 91 models) you cost $2.41 per model. This is an amazing deal. Lets say you take away the book - $290 / 91 models = $3.19 a model. Plus all the extras? This is a fantastic bargain! I do not understand the hate and the thinking that GW is over priced. What can you buy for $3.19 today? I watched a documentary on the creation of D & D & the game chainmail. It stated the cost of a mini in 1969 was $.50 per model. If you take inflation into account that .50 then would be $4.10 dollars today. The models are cheaper today than then! War gaming has always been an expensive hobby as is every hobby. Be it golf, fishing, martial arts you are going to have to pay a price to participate. That life in the big city - deal with it.

@Docktavion

5 ай бұрын

100% agree with you, it’s the same argument about 3D printing I hear all the time. “3D printing is so much cheaper and better then gw, we can get anything for pence, it’s going to kill off gw etc etc”. Yet almost everyone who 3D prints and sells, oh they sell at gw prices, non of them sell at cost, Same with white metal/resin scalpers making OOP gw figures. Some times cheaper, but many , many times it’s not even close to how extortionate they are. Gw fully accepts its a luxury brand/item they lean into it. But no where near as much as many brands do. If gw did expand its production capacity into a couple centres around the world, prices would drop.

This takes me back. In school I bought books and minis with my friends, each of us a different race. We never played, but I still remember reading through the lizardmen army book. It's just so damn good art and lore. I never use my PHB in that way...

As someone who's played magic for over 16yrs and someone who's been playing 40k for going on 4 yrs, im also 36 and can afford 40k . There is way more to the game of 40k that keeps my attention and maintains my excitement. There is just something personal about building and painting your armies, it feels more like your creations as opposed to building a deck imo. And when card sets rotate every few months keeping up with the standard gets expensive and remains expensive as you constantly have to get new cards, I haven't had to buy any models for almost a year. I don't have to buy the new thing, it's an option. And once you've collected a whole army with multiples of your fav units, your good to go, your models don't necessarily change, just the rules. It makes me feel like all the models I've bought are still valid and aren't gonna rotate out like cards do. Plus less volatility in prices going up and down, your models will hold their value, cards fluctuate daily.

I've been befuddled and disappointed by the D&D homepage - it's obvious it's practically defunct - they've turned their back on the broader ttrpg community and put all their eggs in one digital basket. "We can't monetise tabletop gamers - so we have no interest in you anymore." That's a really sad and hollow strategy on the 50th anniversary.

Hasbro Exec referring to Warhammer: "40k isn't a game. It isn't a lifestyle. It's an F-ing cult! Their players will play anything, at any price, and devote their lives to it. Why can't we do this!" Hasbro Junior Exec: "Because we're incompetent, sir?"

Great info ❤ thanks for the extra content!

The slight catch here, is that a lot of TOW miniatures from Games Workshop are older sculpts that they've brought up to date, and they're going to be doingmore - reworking the earlier metal and resin models to bring them uip to dat and do them in plastic..... I'm just disappointed that they're removing my faction (Skaven....) But for the love of god, avoid the warhammer webstore, it's a terrible place for navigation now, and you'll never get online to the store on a saturday morning (GMT), as all the pre-orders go live every saturday and it's a mess!

@Mithguar

5 ай бұрын

They kind of remove it but also they don't since you can still play them. But I get why they would "clean up" the story line for narrative purposes and selection isn't bad either. As much as I love me some ratman, they are so busted lore wise when you compare their tech to anything others have.

@SylvesterTemple

5 ай бұрын

@@Mithguar - TOW skaven and AOS skaven are different though. TOW skaven didn't have the stupid cyborg rat ogres or anything like that - at best we had jezailas and warp fire throwers as our missile troops and that was it.... although, 400 skaven slaves charging at you could rout most things off the table.... And yeah, you can still play them, 'cept in tournaments, where they are not accepted (only for official - non GW trournaments are down to the organizers)

On lack of content over at WotC: recently there was a sharp drop-off of proper videos on KZread for both the DnD and the DnD Beyond channel. Now it's mostly Shorts. Wonder if it is coincidence that it happened around the time the layoffs were announced. Amy Dallan is not there anymore, as we know...

Great video. Subscribed. I'm a Transformers entusiast and like to do modeling. Did some W40k 20 years ago and really enjoyed painting them. Transformers is definitely not as engaging as it could be

I've never gotten into Warhammer, and I have no idea why (aside from how expensive it is). Heck, a friend of mine was one of the artists for Warhammer: Total War! I'm very pleased to see how much work they put into their website and products, so I'll be giving them a closer look. Speaking of gaming companies putting in the work, Kobold Press, my favourite 3rd party TTRPG company, also puts out a ton of content on their website. Not every single day, but usually three to five times per week. Some of it is about their latest books and kickstarters, though most of the articles are about different styles of play, tips for players and GMs, new spells and abilities to incorporate into your games, etc. There's a great article I just stumbled on from a couple weeks ago, about improving your improve skills in-game. I also love their artwork. Overall the site is very streamlined and just nice to look at. I would actually place it equal or slightly ahead of Paizo (though some of that may be personal preference). They also run a weekly Twitch stream on Wednesday afternoons for about an hour. This week's was an interview with Luke Gygax. Would love to see Stephen and Company delve into the Kobolds' den.

As a 40k player since 1987 I know all about the price of mini's. They don't call it "Plastic Crack" for nothing getting a new army going and competitive will cost you north of $1200 for some armies. It is a ton of fun, but also expensive as all get out. And the player base has a love/hate relationship with GW as a result of the pricing. We love the game, we love the lore, we hate getting price gouged for our plastic crack. As to D&D, D&D has not been a decent setting since 3rd edition, they keep dumbing down the game, trying to get new players, and took a weedwacker to the FR setting. As someone else on here commented "No matter who wins, we all lose." Yea, we either get a neutered gamed made for the stupidest person at the table, with a fracked up setting, or we get a great game that we have to spend house payments to afford. What your seeing on the Warhammer site is them bringing back Warhammer Fantasy, something they tried to kill off, or turn into Warhammer Age of Sigmar. That went over like a lead balloon, and it took them a few years a a dedicated campaign to get them to bring it back. There is a ton of hype about the release of Warhammer: The old World, and alot of old players looking at maybe returning back to the hobby. Boy are they going to be in for some sticker shock, a small unit box that may have went for $35 back in the day, will now cost them $70-$100. And then you have to paint everything, so throw in money for paint, brushes, mini-holders, hobby knives, dremels, ect. It's an adult hobby, and not the spicy kind...ROFL.

I think nothing would scare Hasbro's D&D arm more than if GW decided to bring Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay back "in-house" and started to promote it like they do their tabletop games. Luckily for Hasbro I doubt they ever will, GW know their money comes from selling miniatures. Hasbro seem to have spent more time wanting to be Blizzard and Warcraft rather than looking at GW and Warhammer. It's especially funny when you think GW started as a company distributing D&D to the UK!

Thank you for this review.

When I go to the WotC website and look for the articles, the pages work. Maybe they just don't work on desktop? I do agree with the main point that the WotC website is bad and it's very clear there isn't a priority on actually advertising their products. I've been saying this myself (mostly to myself) a bit for the past couple of weeks, thinking back to how even though for almost this entire 2023 I was stuck with only a phone or mostly only a phone and I couldn't use an adblocker on KZread. Which is the main way I consume any media now. And I basically never got ads for WotC products!! I've gotten multiple ads from roll20, the MCDM RPG, random small companies, Crooked Moon, etc. But the amount I've gotten a video ad for official DnD products could all fit on at most both of my hands. I've seen a fair bit of banner ads in the KZread search results for DnD beyond. But I ALREADY HAVE DNDBEYOND! What is the point of all this privacy invasion and data brokerage just to serve me ads I block if the few ones that aren't just aren't relevant to me? Bruh.

Those GW prices, along with mismanagement of the rules and codices are why people are fleeing GW for other systems like OPR

@darthkek1953

5 ай бұрын

People leave GW for OPR but almost nobody starts with OPR. And there are no OPR tournaments, not really. And OPR won't be the primary beneficiary of Amazon TV though it will certainly benefit. But price wise, if you have your own printer and can fumigate it, fine. But most people don't and to buy pre-printed models and get them shipped to you on ETsy, they can easily exceed GW prices. And plastic is fantastic.

@ShadowDrakken

5 ай бұрын

@@darthkek1953 systems like OPR, there's a lot of other systems out there. Malifaux and Monpoc are both quite large AND have tournaments. The various Star Wars ones do as well. OPR is just the best 1:1 analog.

@calvanoni5443

5 ай бұрын

Just saw a vid yesterday looking at the proxies off of Etsy, prices were 1/3 of GW.

I doubt Stephen will see this, but one important thing to note. DnD beyond has basically replaced the DnD website as far as being a place where articles and product releases are announced. Even if you aren't paying for stuff, it is literally where the things he was complaining about the lack of was announced. Where random articles get published, etc. He would have realized this if he wasn't so blinded by his hatred of DnD beyond that he couldn't actually do anything but complain about having to sign up.

The fact that they aren't hyping DND 2024 is the strangest thing to me. I think WoTC is still suffering from the initial decision not to just say it is a new edition, and as a result it seems like they can't market it because it isn't supposed to be anything new. I think if they had said from the outset 'This is a new edition, it is going to have all of these awesome new races, classes and monsters, streamlined rules and gameplay so you can spend more time in the game world and less time in the books; we've made the game easier to get in to for new players, and have balanced epic high-level play to be faster and easier to run for DMs', then they would have been in a better position to effectively hype and market the new version. Embrace the changes, sell them as a positive. It's hard to find any discussion about any of the new playtests or rules or anything now. Even on the DNDBeyond website, you have to dig a little ways into their posting to find anything about the new edition, and I had to dig around quite a bit in their forums to find the DND 2024 discussion section.

Hasbro doesn't understand their own product. They think it's a board game so it just takes one ad and if people want to play it digitally they can go to the online board game site where people can play the new VTT board game.... IE: Hasbro sux and they shouldn't have laid off all the people that actually know the product.

GW is expensive, but I’m still going to buy into the new stuff. It’s an addiction.

Apparently their layoffs included marketing team.

Maybe everyone involved in the D&D homepage was let go by Hasbro and nobody has figured out how to update it and who is responsible to update.

WotC announced last year that they will abandon the old DnD website and will transfer everything to the D&D Beyond website, so this is absolutely no surprise that you don't find stuff there. What _is_ surprising is that it takes so bloody long to actually get the transfer done

At the end of 2022 I thought the big hype was over the new version of d&d coming out and then last year it just went quiet and I thought they were just going to abandon it. With the speculation that the new versions coming out in the next few months, I don't know if it's going to be any good because they seem to have stopped all the play testing. I am highly skeptical and I'm just going to keep playing the old stuff I've been playing and try out some of the smaller company products like DCC or Pathfinder.

@silverwolf5101

5 ай бұрын

Try Dragonbane. All you need to run a complete campaign (besides friends) in a box for about fifty bucks

All the links work perfectly for me on the D&D page. However, I agree that the page is dated and that they want to direct traffic to D&D Beyond.

I haven't gone to the D&D website in almost a year. They haven't updated anything in a long time.

I love how Henry Cavil has become the face of Warhammer in, like...1 year or something.

I'd venture to say that Games Workshop doesn't abuse, take for granted, and otherwise hold their fanbase in contempt, ESPECIALLY the older players. WotC has pushed those folks toward the OSR and other games so they can focus on "modern audiences."

You should also check out Cubicle 7 and what they are doing for the TTRPG setting of all the Warhammer settings. Why anyone still plays dnd is beyond me, when their games are far better.

Old World went from "New armies!" to "All the old armies!" to "Some of the old armies". Now you have to buy 3 books to play and majority of the models in the TK and Bretonnia sets are the same ones they released 30-20 years ago. Not exactly stellar performance, but goes to show how starved people are for Warhammer Fantasy after Total War Warhammer came out.

WTOW is not a skirmish game, but a mass combat wargame.

I waited in the queue, wanting to get in early on the Tomb Kings army... got in... $290? Yeah, no.

I feel like Hasbro should hire people who actually like their games and IP

I like to think of GW as an example of mega organization that while still greedy actually tries really hard to engage with the community, this shows that it is not impossible to treat your community well which alot other cooperations are terrible at

@kevinh.9939

5 ай бұрын

If by "treat well" you mean "ruthlessly fleece." 😉😆

@sadis72

5 ай бұрын

GW treating their community well? Where has that been lmao

@Aenarion28

5 ай бұрын

What amazes me is GW is showing how their business model is superior to Disney's.

@Docktavion

5 ай бұрын

Gw problem is, it’s a national based company in a international market. They needed to ramp up production hubs to accommodate the growing market years ago and never did, leaving us in this constant sold out state.

@W33Bster

5 ай бұрын

By treating it well i mean that there is alot of communication and transparency

I guess you missed the GW store webpage. Good luck. Perpetual out of stocks.

OR, pay zero dollars for One Page Rules Regiments and use whichever models you like.

GW is killing it, true. It is also true that their game is launching in two weeks, whereas DND6 is still a bit further away. WOTC -might- update their site massively as we get closer to the date. -MIGHT-. It's still somwhat early-ish for the big marketing push, if that ever happens

Cavill can afford games workshop. I can't.

Damn you have one expensive car if that's your car payment.

GW just spent £10.8M on their website, so hardly surprising they’re on top of everything.

the problem is that GW has bit of a monopoly on the miniture market. others have tried and failed miserably

It can take forever to actually get the product.

404 reasons are more than enough to visit hahahasbro!

It's hard to believe how much Hasbro has had to screw up to make Games Workshop look like the good guys.

Comparing Warhammer to D&D, 2 games that don't compare straight up, is like comparing Cars to books. One is a tabletop game played with books and imagination and the other is a toxic company that forces their customers to buy their new miniatures to stay competitive in a miniature game.

And US is only the top of the iceberg... For Europe Hasbro cancelled the collaboration with local Editors in France, Spain and Germany doing a fantastic job with translations of the books (even if not everything was translated). Since then they published only 3 books last year and the last communication dates from 29 March !!! They are absolutely pathetic.

I wonder if some of the people left at WotC even care anymore? They have been screwed over by the Hasbro overlords so much they have reason to have given up hope.

Heh Dungeons and Paywalls

Hate to break this to you but most car payments are more like $700-$800 now.

@itsallfunandgames723

5 ай бұрын

Now we REALLY can't afford Warhammer minis.

The biggest issue that GW has is that they cannot produce their products fast enough to meet demand. The exact opposite of WOTC!

WotC's website has always been managed by incompetents.

Maybe they just fired all the homepage staff 😉

To be honest GW product and DnD are different animals. GW may be marketing better (and it took them years of silence on marketing) but miniature games is very different from role playing games. Mini games are easier to market and visually more interesting. Agreed, DnD needs to be better about generating excitement about the product.

Nah, they shouldn't have anything on their D&D website, because they canned all the people responsible for that kind of thing. >P

I don't get why some D&D people are so desperate to put GW on a pedestal alluva sudden.

D&D Beyond IS their website for the D&D game news! They basically announced that they abandoned their old website last year!

@JasonSmulan

5 ай бұрын

I came here to say the same, but at least they should have a home page announcing that you should go to DnD beyond.

@RollForCombat

5 ай бұрын

Then why still have it up? If I'm new to the hobby, that isn't where I would go to find my news and information; I would go to the D&D website. They need to update that site and make this clear, as they are losing a ton of new people trying to navigate and use a website that is no longer in use.

@imayb1

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, they say DnDB is their website, but then why is their most recent community update September 22, 2023? If I go to DnDB's KZread channel, their recent videos from 2-3 weeks ago are all about Dungeons of Drakenheim and Grim Hollow. DnDB itself is looking pretty abandoned. When was the last time they offered an update? Changelog says Nov. 9, 2023.

I hope Hasbro doesn't learn from Games Workshop. There's a reason why I left that hobby ($$$$$).

Games Workshop had their own period of screw ups and fan base outrage. Arguably even worse than anything Games Workshop did in the last years. The fan culture on the internet wasn`t what it is now, what saved them a little bit. But what actually happened was worse. And the reason was basicly the same. They thought they were undermonetized. They screwed over huge chunks of their fanbase when they discontinued Warhammer Fantasy. Like a lot. Hundrets of dollars of miniatures losing nearly their entire value when the scene collapsed. And that was the whole purpose of it. They wanted new players or old players needing to buy new stuff to continue to play. It basicly was as if Hasbro would say "Screw DnD the players are all set, there is no money there anymore, lets discontinue the books and invent a new RPG." Nothing Hasbro actually did last year is at the same scale as what Games Workshop did back then. And there were still a lot of complains about Games Workshop before that. And there are probably a ton of complains by their fanbase right now.

Warhammer 40k shows no mercy...

GW definitely keep the shareholders happy with year on year growth and profits. The way hasbro is going they are going to have angry shareholders. As a public trading company keeping shareholders happy is the number 1 goal, failure will lead to votes of no confidence in the board or worse shareholders selling fast and tanking the value of the company. GW does a lot of things people don't like, including the prices (but people still pay so its obviously sustainable and profitable), but they do a lot of things much better than hasbro.

GW is hardly a 'friendly' company, but, they at least seem to be competent, most of the time. All GW needs to do to outperform Hasbro, is refuse to do something insane. And that might be enough. But GW is also mainly a miniatures company. True they have had a few editions of the role game. But only half as many as D&D. 1st 2nd and 4th are mostly the same. I try to forget 3rd ever happened :) Hasbro is more than Magic and D&D. But they sure seem to be making the effort to be just the other stuff.

Papa Hasbro was too busy firing people to care about running it's company properly

Even DNDB doesn't like D&D anymore

Both companies suck but the difference is that GW makes products people want. Yeah everyone complains there aren’t enough new Xenos models but every box sells out and they’ll print to demand and just keep cranking them out printing money. If WotC made things people wanted they’d forgive every transgression.

Hasbro is destroying it's self!

Games Workshop does the sales job well, but they have become right bastards in the last few years. My wargaming group has gone over to OPR and we probably won't ever go back.

Stephen, you are being very unfair to the staff at Wotc. you want them to produce regular content day after day about their new products on the web. Now some of the people who would be involved in that effort have been fired, and all the rest of the people who would be involved in that effort are spending most of their time at work figuring out what to do when they are fired. they don’t have time to produce new content, and you shouldn’t be asking it of them. really, wink wink, you’re asking too much. -Toby

Games Workshop is not the "good guy". Their fans just put up with a lot more than RPG fans. The independent war gaming market isn't as large as the independent RPG market. So, it's harder for wargamers to escape the GW ecosystem. 3D printing is changing that... but indy wargames are about 10 years behind the indy RPG community.

Great, just great. Hype the *ONLY* other truly predatory game company out there, why don'tcha?

Hasbro are embarrassing

GWs greed makes them the lesser of the two evils

But change webpage cost money, hasbro and his ceo need money a lot 😂

Games Workshop gave bonuses based on sales, not a flat bonus, not many would have achieved the full bonus, it is virtue signaling at best. The release of the Old world is an attempt to recover the market they ditched when they started Age of Sigmar which the community has been keeping going for years, including world events and complete faction coverage. GW's relentless releasing of poor rules and scrapping them on a regular cycle to drive miniature sales is well understood by gamers as a profit machine with no interest in developing the community.

If you want to sell your new mobile game IP in a fire sale, you don't spend a lot of money on news articles. Silly.

"Add woman to it and make them gay"

There are so many ways D&D could monetize in the tabletop gaming space, instead they farm it out to Wizkids so they can fail at it. Hasbro and WotC are all run by uninteresting normies, with barely high enough for college IQs, and when they think about new forms of monetization they can only think of things they already know like useless "lifestyle brand" tchotchkes and mobile games. Which is of course why their VTT will fail, not because it's a bad VTT, but because they'll be expecting WoW in its heyday numbers at the double the subscription cost with microtransactions.

Games Workshop is an evil villain with a good set of clothes, Try not to fall for their crap. Both Companies are piss poor morally.