I...totally forgot ed was only 12 when all this happened.

@Lowart

5 жыл бұрын

I tend to forget that he's that age, too, whenever I'm watching it. Since he's such a strong character overall, I guess it's easy to forget.

@ScarletTsubasa

5 жыл бұрын

I might be remembering wrong, but FMA '03 Ed is actually slightly older than Brotherhood and manga Ed at the start, then there is a jump backwards of just over four years to when the exam took place. Then there are a few side adventures that happen that loosely explain what Ed and Al did during the four years between the State Alchemist Exam and the present day where the bulk of the story takes place (Ed turns sixteen just after the lab incident there). In the manga and Brotherhood, Ed is fifteen-sixteen from the get go and we only see his and Al's backstory and the exam before jumping back to the present. What they did during the four years after the exam is never really explained there. FMA '03 might have been a little confusing with the jumping around, so it might be hard to guess how old Ed is supposed to be in certain parts. Though, as I said, my memory might be a bit fuzzy. I haven't watched the 2003 version in full in probably over a decade

@humanperson2775

5 жыл бұрын

(correct me if i'm wrong) Not including flashbacks, Ed was 12 throughout the whole of FMA and he was 15 throughout the whole of FMAB. It's confusing...

@Uhlbelk

5 жыл бұрын

Ed is 15 at the "start" of FMA in Liore, but as soon as that is over, it jump back to when they lost their bodies and follows them through the exam and a bit after, at which point it goes back to leaving Liore.

@emrys4386

5 жыл бұрын

@ScartletTsubasa I find it interesting that you think Ed is older in '03, while for me I always think of him as younger in that series than in Brotherhood- but I too tend to forget that he is only 12 at the start. As far as how Ed's timeline works in my head I actually tend to think of him as younger when taking the Exam than he is in the Manga or FMAB. Considering the date on the watch in FMAB was 10/3/10, marking the day he took the Exam and the boys burned down their home. While the date on the watch (10/3/09) would only make sense in FMA if Ed is taking the Exam in Spring of 1910. I also find that '03 has the boys' ages when I need it the most, especially when it comes to stuff before their exam. Seeing as it has the boys at 9 and 10 when their mom dies (tbh I prefer that over her death when they're younger and them obsessing over it for literally years), meaning they couldn't've been much older when they met Izumi for the first time. As for the side adventures between the Exam and the Lab, you have Be Thou for the People (putting Ed literally right after his Exam), Forger's Love (which as BS filler as it is, tells us Ed is still 12), Phantom Thief (Where I'd say is probably closer to 13 than he is to 12, if nothing else by how done is with her by the second scam), Other Brother's Elric (which is honestly where I'd probably put Ed closer to 14), and Fullmetal vs Flame (which can be debatably be put in between the last two, but I still see as happening after they meet the Tringhams). I especially keep forgetting that Ed is supposed to turn 16 after the Lab, I always figured he was fifteen from then on in '03 (mainly because of how fast everything just goes absolutely sideways), maybe turning sixteen right near the end of the show. Yet I think Ed's abmiguity in his age is one of the charms to the show, so despite the fact that I try to make a timeline out of it, I really don't mind if it's never clearly stated in the show.

I think all fans can agree that regardless of the version, this was one of the most impactful points in the series....To this day, it haunts me...

@oskarvlixesmtze7891

5 жыл бұрын

That moment, when Ed is trying to transmute that spot of blood and debris on the wall, while he cries ... and when Mustang asks him: What do you intend to do? return to a malformed chimera? .... it's just the shock to me ... the very representation of impotence

@SunnyDragonfly

5 жыл бұрын

This and Hughes had a bigger impact for me in 2003 than FMAB, because we have been able to see more interactions with each of them.

@3st3st77

5 жыл бұрын

I have to disagree, although it’s not the anime’s fault. It didn’t leave all that much of an impression on me, if I’m honest. Do you want to know why? Because everyone is talking about it. The surprise was already spoiled for me years before I knew the name of the anime. At that moment, the only thing I thought was: “Oh, that’s the guy from the memes.” Sadly, this scene seems to be one of the only things that bring people to recommend the anime, spoiling the experience.

@tailedgates9

5 жыл бұрын

@@3st3st77 I hate that....I'm sorry about that, man.... :(

@alexeysimushov4971

Жыл бұрын

It haunts me too. But I generally see three reactions to this episode or arc: just super sad, disturbing, sad and disturbing. I had the the first reaction out of the three I listed but then it became the second one. I can't even sleep normally anymore. Both version and manga are disturbing to me, after Brotherhood episode 4 I was in constant fear when they show her in the flashbacks or just mention. I really HATE Tucher! He should burn in hell! I don't when people do something horrible to kids and animals so my reaction to the hideous being was... like Ed in Brotherhood (I watched 2003 version first but I wasn't clear enough for me until they confirmed that Nina is chimera). I was super sad but in Brotherhood episode 4 brought to me only terror because I forgot about it was like watching it for the first time again. And that voice... so creepy! I cannot even express sadness for her for me it like super scary anime moment. Now I hate mad scientists.

I think the fact that Ed was clued into the problems of the Tucker family but still was not able to stop Tucker before it's too late in 2003 just adds so much more to the hopelessness of 2003. Just the fact that Edward knew something was wrong but still wasn't able to fix it. You could also say that this is similar to Al during the transmutation of their mother since Al says himself that he knew something was wrong but he didn't stop Edward from completing the transmutation.

*THIS SHOW IS THE REASON WHY WE CAN'T HAVE DOGGIRLS IN ANIME!*

@CORV3TT33

5 жыл бұрын

Never watched Dog days?

@thatpersonwhodidntgetthejo4399

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah catgirls ftw

@thatpersonwhodidntgetthejo4399

5 жыл бұрын

Did i just reply to 8 months old comment

@garthhammonds7573

4 жыл бұрын

Lul

@DanafoxyVixen

4 жыл бұрын

Why? there's always room for Doggirls

Maybe i am just seeig too much into things (if yes, sorry in advance), but i always thought that in the 2003 adaption the brothers gave the final push involuntary to Tucker to do the transmutation. First it was Al who suggested during one dinner that Tucker should simply make another chimera. Then Tucker discovers that they had attempted human transmutation, and tells ED that he understands why they did it.When they break in next day, he tells them to "Come on in" and at the beggining he sounds proud of his work, like a teacher showing his students his best accomplishments (he even says things like " I told you i would let you see" and descriping why this "version" worked better than the last). The whole thing added a new layer of disturbing for me.

@Lowart

5 жыл бұрын

That's awesome! I hadn't thought of that.

@nickelakon5369

5 жыл бұрын

Nah, I definitely thought that was the clear intention.

@idavisband

5 жыл бұрын

I agree with you 100%. That's why I don't really care about FMB in this part in the show, it was just pushed to fast compared to FM03 that made me feel more emotions.

@Uhlbelk

5 жыл бұрын

If I remember correctly, they make mention in 2003 that after Tuckers "success" he has failed to produce, and that this is his last chance to demonstrate competence or he will lose his state alchemist status. I also think in 2003 it is made pretty clear that alchemy is pretty much illegal unless you are a state alchemist.

@idavisband

5 жыл бұрын

@@Uhlbelk yeah I remember that too

It's really nice seeing you give 2003 some love, I feel like it's really under appreciated and whenever I try to discuss 2003 with people they tend to kind of blow it off and talk solely about Brotherhood. While I do prefer a lot of the aspects of Brotherhood, there's so much to appreciate in 2003 that often gets pushed aside.

@Don11037

5 жыл бұрын

I feel like you have to watch both for character development but 2003 first to repect it

@CJCroen1393

5 жыл бұрын

Ironic isn't it? FMA2003 was hailed as a masterpiece when it came out and for a long time it was considered one of the quintessential anime out there. It had a strong and thriving fanbase. Everyone who knew anime knew about it and if you were new to anime, it was _always_ one of the first ones people would suggest to you. But now, Brotherhood is treated as superior, FMA2003 is all but forgotten and when it IS mentioned, it's usually just so FMA:B fans can criticize or mock it. And that's just not fair. I love FMA2003 and FMAB. FMA2003 is a classic, FMAB was a good adaptation of the manga. They both have wonderful things going for them and both deserve all the love they can get.

@Don11037

5 жыл бұрын

@@CJCroen1393 music good on both but 2003 art style (not animation) is better i feel for example fmab slicer fightbis animated well but feels worse than 2003

@CJCroen1393

5 жыл бұрын

You see, for me, the animation is kind of a mixed bag. Like, 2003 feels so much more organic and natural, not to mention it's that type of animation that you can look at and, on the one hand, think "Well, yeah, someone drew that" and then immediately after think "HOLY CRAP, SOMEONE _DREW_ THAT!?" But on the other hand, Brotherhood's animation feels more fluid and, because of the bigger budget, makes action scenes considerably more powerful. They're both great imo, but for different reasons.

@Don11037

5 жыл бұрын

@@CJCroen1393 true 2003 does look more natural and they dont change the art style for jokes as much which i like i also hate sloth in fmab

_Now I wanna re-read manga and re-watch both animes again_

@Lowart

5 жыл бұрын

I've been in a perpetual state of re-watching the anime and re-reading the manga for a bit over a year now. Join me in this madness haha

@elementalalchemist0355

5 жыл бұрын

Lowart _oki xD_

@comic2525

5 жыл бұрын

Lowart question do you know when the Nina arc begins in the manga?

i don't think it can be understated how knowing nina for longer in 03 makes her death so much more impactful. with brotherhood, even though there's less obviously something wrong with tucker, when cute little nina is introduced, you just know that the other shoe is going to drop soon because of how bleakly the previous episodes have gone. not killing her off immediately in 03, but instead taking that time to really develop the sibling relationship between her and ed, makes it far more shocking when we see what is done to her. we don't expect a terrible thing like that to happen to a recurring character because they aren't as clearly expendable..........and similar reason why i think 03 handles hughes' death better! we had more time to get attached!

I remember the first time my wife showed me '03. What happened to Nina and Alexander shook me so much that I had to take a break from watching any further for about a month. In contrast, like so many of the episodes that covered the same ground, I feel like Brotherhood just breezed past what made this storyline such a punch in the gut. I'm definitely not out right knocking Brotherhood, but this is one of many reasons why I prefer the former.

@louttloutte

5 жыл бұрын

the first time I watched this I was 14. It shook me so much that I abandon the manga entirely. I was like " it's good but way too much form me ". I started re-watching everything when I was 17.

@miche8868

5 жыл бұрын

@@louttloutte that's crazy that's literally what I did but with FMA03

@chaddon7685

5 жыл бұрын

If you had seen it for the first time in Brotherhood, you wouldn't have felt that way. As someone who first watched it on Brotherhood, it was a serious punch in the gut. I can't think about this fake moment without feeling rage against her father.

@joeywheelerii9136

2 жыл бұрын

@@chaddon7685 same

And you hit the nail on the head of why Nina'a death in 2003 will always make way more since to me! Also, people didn't like that Ed lashed out at others after Nina's death? Really? He's freaking twelve, give the kid a break! He spent months with that girl, of course he's gonna be attached to her! And some final thoughts. Interesting detail about the small detail of how, in 2003, if, even on a small scale, Edward is at least plays some part in Nina's death. Just heartbreak all around. Your credits idea sounds a lot better, actually! Having a lot of fun with these!

@rhondahoward8025

5 жыл бұрын

People don't get that in the 2003 version, Edward has NO support system outside of his brother, and Mustang is cold as hell to him. At least in the Brotherhood and manga, the military is more like family and honestly tries to look out for the kid. Mustang even tells him he'll get sick if he stays out in the rain.

@AnimeFreakLucky7

5 жыл бұрын

Pretty true statement, actually.

@claireaquos6532

Жыл бұрын

There's also 2 details people seemed to miss: 1- Unlike in mangahood, Ed has seen the sign that something was wrong. If he simply intervine sooner, he maybe could have stop this from happening in the first place! 2- The way the milatary is involve: Not only they want to hide the incident to the public but they even ask Ed to check Tucker's research. Asking the alchemist child who is clearly traumatize by Chimera Nina to check how it was done is extremely disturbing. No wonder he wanted to quit them after that.

In 2003, Nina became like a little sister to Ed. Imagine how he would act in either series if that shit happened to Al. How would you haters have reacted if he just moved on like it was nothing?

@rhondahoward8025

5 жыл бұрын

Basically he can react but not _too_ much, otherwise he's being "melodramatic". It's kind of bullshit. "Yeah, be sad but not like... a pain about it, okay?" Well sorry, but that's not how emotions work.

Can we get Lowart's official dog album released this year?

@fullskapunkalchemist3471

5 жыл бұрын

The True Random Gamer the intro song from this, his waluigi song and a cover of short people, that would be a pretty great ep.

@Lowart

5 жыл бұрын

Part of me genuinely wants to do this now haha

@Revanxbone

5 жыл бұрын

I reaaaaaalllyyy want this... I liked... I love it... Give it to me,

@DTDdeathmas

5 жыл бұрын

Lowart do it

@MimikoKika

5 жыл бұрын

@@Lowart I'd buy that album in an instant

It's so cathartic to hear someone talk about the 2003 anime again. The original anime was just so good at telling character stories that I'm always disappointed that Brotherhood has effectively placed in the original FMA in obscurity. If they ever made another 2003 FMA movie, I'd love to watch it because the character bonds were so strong and the bittersweet themes of sacrifice would be appropriate given how far I've aged since 2003.

@nwut

3 жыл бұрын

i would be hyped for a remake having qualities of both

@Edax_Royeaux

3 жыл бұрын

@@nwut I would just plain love a season of Ed and Al in the real world making their way back home.

@nwut

3 жыл бұрын

@@Edax_Royeaux same

@harveyquinn3535

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah but the 2003 ending killed the anime for me.

@Edax_Royeaux

3 жыл бұрын

@@harveyquinn3535 Why?

That moment, when Ed is trying to transmute that spot of blood and debris on the wall, while he cries ... and when Mustang asks him: What do you intend to do? return to a malformed chimera? .... it's just the shock to me ... the very representation of impotence

Actually, I really like the fact that Al's emotions aren't shown as clearly in the 2003 version, because it feeds directly into the question of whether or not he's really still himself. I think the disconnect between Ed and Al during the entire Nina Aftermath sequence really contributes to Ed's uncertainty over whether Al is his real brother or his own creation - and Al's concern over whether he's real or not as well - making it a bigger undertone to the series.

@NitroIndigo

5 жыл бұрын

Have you seen the theory that Al-in-the-armour is a copy?

@benedictrogers1478

4 жыл бұрын

To be fair in the manga and Brotherhood 'is Al a copy/creation' isn't really a question, no character actually believes it beyond Al for about a chapter and a half, the seeming proof is shown to be wrong very simply, and eventually we're shown Al's soul interacting with Al's Truth in his body. It's finally proven at the end where Ed rescues Al and he's shown to have the body from beyond the Gate but his experiences as a suit of armour. On the other hand, the Al in the 2003 anime is almost explicitly a copy, seeing as the returned version hasn't aged or retained the memories of his adventures (ignoring the film here, because that's a mess by the end). It fits somewhat more with the themes of that anime, but considering that anime can't be asked to explore it's themes beyond the most basic level I can't really bring myself to care about the status of it's characters.

@eowynsisterdaughter

4 жыл бұрын

@@benedictrogers1478 I guess I just took it at face value when they said their experiences were the payment for getting Al back, never made the association with Al being a copy theory with him losing his memories, but yikes, that's horrifying.

@Zarastro54

3 жыл бұрын

Eowyn Sisterdaughter Though copy Al a neat theory, I think the payment being his memories makes more sense thematically since those are something precious to him.

@trentbrown500

3 жыл бұрын

@@benedictrogers1478 bruh come on. They did a good job with equivalent exchange and the cardinal sins. What do you want? Another FMA?

+Lowart One thing I would have liked you to go into is Shou Tucker's difference in character here than in the Manga/Brotherhood. In the Manga/Brotherhood it's made explicitly clear that he's just pure evil and has no love for his daughter at all. In 03, several shots of hesitance, as well as moments where he hugs her and confesses his feelings to her show that yes, he does genuinely love his daughter and he doesn't want to do what he's about to do. But due to his weak will and deteriorating sanity from pressure from the military (As well as not being the most sane person to begin with) he ends up doing it anyway which he then tries to convince himself was purely to satisfy his curiosity so he wouldn't have to admit to himself that he was too weak to save his daughter. It adds another layer of tragedy to this storyline and really makes what Tucker goes through later on to try to bring her back hit home and make sense.

@Lowart

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, the complexities of Shou Tucker in 2003 are absolutely worth going into, and it's great that you brought it up here :) I plan to cover that sort of stuff when Shou Tucker returns in 03.

@Edax_Royeaux

5 жыл бұрын

@@Lowart It's a bit disturbing that I empathize with Shou Tucker back when I was a kid. I'd progressing poorly in school and I'd get progress reports that I'd need to get signed by my parents. I knew it would be a disaster to do so I'd put it off so I could live a few more days in my status quo. But I was always living in a state of intense anxiety because I knew this would all have to end soon because my teachers would get angry and my parents would just get angrier. Logically putting it off just made everything worse but my severe anxiety wasn't letting me thinking straight. I could see that in 03 Tucker. Having a home, having a loving daughter, having warm meals and knowing it'll all have to end as the clock is ticking and he has no way out. And he waits until last minute basicly to do that horrible thing the military wants him to do. And when he finally does give in, it's almost a relief, despite the horror of the situation. Looking back, as a kid, I was really stuck in my position with no way out, but I suppose Tucker had the options afforded to an adult. Still, despite being intelligent, I got the impression Tucker just wasn't capable of raising a daughter while being homeless and destitute. He was a loser and he didn't fit in with society given his talents, and worst of all he was at the mercy of those in authority. This is why I viewed the whole Tucker family as being a tragic tale, rather then just Nina in the 03 version. Tucker tries to undo the damage he caused but he's living in a world of entropy. The result is that he's become less than what he once was, and he recreates his daughter whom is also less than what she once was. Equivalent exchange was a lie in 03 and this plays through in Tucker's storyline.

@rutger5000

5 жыл бұрын

@@Edax_Royeaux Except that Shou Tucker does clearly love Nina in both the manga/brotherhood. Nina complains that he doesn't play with her as often now that the yearly inspection is comming up, and that he did badly on the last inspection. If Shou Tucker didn't care about Nina. He wouldn't be playing with her in the first place, and would have sacrficed her earlier. And both brotherhood and the manga do a great job to show how sacrificing Nina pushes Shoe Tucker over the edge. It is what drove him insane. Finally in the manga and brotherhood version Equivalent exchange isn't a lie. And that's important. The universe (truth) can be cruel and uncaring, but it isn't out there to trick people. The only lies humans suffer from, are those they tell to each other and themselves.

@MrMarinus18

3 жыл бұрын

In 2003 Tucker is a really disturbed individual while in Brotherhood he really is just an alchemist who cheated his way into a position he was completely unqualified for. To me in the 2009 version Tucker also feels somewhat sorry for what he did and he actively trying to delude himself (Major props to the VA) while in the 2003 version he seems legitimately proud of his work.

@claireaquos6532

Жыл бұрын

@@MrMarinus18 Despite the fact that in 2003, Tucker tries to bring Nina back?

When I saw Scar kill Nina, it was sad but imo it was better for her. Scar was right, he even made sure she didn't suffer by obliterating her.

@Hangnailer47

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I think it was the right thing to do but I were a bystander and saw a bucket load of blood splattered all over the walls the way it was shown it definitely doesn’t look like it was merciful execution.

@jeshonloonskin4176

3 жыл бұрын

Wasn’t this Scar’s first time ever using the alchemy his arm has?

@Nebulasecura

2 жыл бұрын

I just think it was fucked up HARD that he killed tucker like that right in front of her!

@starvoltnexus3139

2 жыл бұрын

Hopefully she didn’t feel much when she passed but that’s how I’ve always saw it

I genuinely think if you merge the style of Fullmetal alchemist with the story of brotherhood/manga it'd be perfect.

@AnimeFreakLucky7

5 жыл бұрын

Near perfection, at least!

@HExtra-kun

5 жыл бұрын

let's try for a third adaptation! Shove everything in from the different versions! Let's make this a cluster-fuck bois!!

@King_Nex

5 жыл бұрын

Talk to Mr. Tucker about it. I hear he is quite skilled when it comes to merging things.

@newdawnhorizon9879

5 жыл бұрын

@@HExtra-kun so we can another black clover no thanks

@beannnnn

5 жыл бұрын

Yes! I definitely agree!

One additional thing about Shou Tucker in 2003 vs brotherhood. The characterization of his motives. In Brotherhood he is portrayed as desperate/crazy/at the end of his rope. In 2003 his more sinister because when asked why he says "I knew I would suffer consequences either way, so I decided to do the experiment anyway because I could". It becomes much less passionate and so much colder and more eerie and it's one of the things that elevates the 2003 Nina episode for me.

@BigBoss-km9yz

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I agree.

@MrMarinus18

3 жыл бұрын

In Brotherhood at least to me he also comes across as very somber and somewhat in denial about what he did. He feels bad for it but is lying to himself like he has been doing about his wife.

I like that you pointed out how Brotherhood cut Al's warning to Tucker. It's important because it hints that Al represses his emotions. Al always acts calm in front of Ed to ease Ed's guilt. The context is missing.

Wait, Ed was 12 at that moment in 2003? I completely forgot that!

@Lowart

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's super easy to forget because of how strong of a character he is, overall. I always have to remind myself of that when I'm watching 2003, even after making all these videos about the show haha

@blue_wolfproductions12

5 жыл бұрын

No Ed was 15 years old when that happened. That moment was not a flashback. It happened in the ongoing story.@@Lowart

@Cilibi

5 жыл бұрын

Blue_Wolf Productions Not in 2003 it wasn’t, at this part of the story we’re still in the flashback Al is telling Rise about. In 2003 the Nina incident happens right after Ed becomes a State Alchemist at 13.

@blue_wolfproductions12

5 жыл бұрын

Cilibi Oh

I really like how in both versions of this video, you talk about what all versions of FMA did good. While 2003 is definitely the more under appreciated series, the Brotherhood and manga versions usually get overlooked when people compare the Nina sections of the story. Alot of comments I've seen go like: "BH is better, but 03 did the Nina stuff better" so I like how we get to see the strengths of all versions. Also totally agree, I never had any issues with Ed's reactions in the 2003 series, but I did have issue with Al's lack of reaction.

@Lowart

5 жыл бұрын

I'm happy to hear that you feel I gave Brotherhood and the manga the time they deserved here :) Thanks for letting me know that.

@Edax_Royeaux

5 жыл бұрын

It's been awhile since I've seen BH, but doesn't Nina get introduced and killed in the same episode? I remember thinking that made her a rather disposable character since it felt like she was a once-off character like Karin in a once-off episode. A lot of tv shows like hitting the reset button at the end of a series and this sort of felt like that to me. In the original 03 version, since she lasts more than one episode and is in multiple events unrelated to her own story, it felt like she was becoming part of a new status quo in the meta sense.

@UncontestedV2

11 ай бұрын

Nina and Hughes stories were objectively better in FMA03. There is actual character development and relationships to care about. FMAB brings Nina in and kills her 10 minutes later, theres simply no comparison there.

I'm pretty sure that I speak for a sizable portion of the audience when I state that the knowledge of Edward being 12 flew over most of our heads. For the most part, he acts like a short-tempered adult, he's remarkably well-spoken for someone his age, and he's very intelligent for a boy on the cusp of puberty. The character is so well-written that we FORGET about his age entirely...until it's rudely thrust back into our faces to remind us of the reality of the situation. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that I speak for almost everyone when I say that this was, without question, a defining moment in the show. Up until this point, alchemy seemed like something that was a borderline divine power that skilled individuals could tap into to produce remarkable results, and Edward is considered to be such a prodigy that people who've been in the game for decades simply marvel at his skills and abilities...and yet despite this, he's found a second thing that alchemy can't fix. This revelation that alchemy is far weaker than they give it credit for is a blow to Ed's psyche, and gives him questions that desperately need answers, further providing motivation for him to seek out the Philosopher's Stone and the answers that such a mystical item would inevitably provide. A lot of the actions that Ed and Al do through the rest of the series hinge upon their experiences here, and it's not at all a stretch to say that this was a defining moment in both of the brothers' characters as individuals. A scar that would stay with them for the rest of their lives.

@whade62000

4 жыл бұрын

I never forgot about it. I think that's part of his character really. He's the older sibling, with a little brother, andparents lost at a young age, headstrong, dutiful and independent, he had to grow up to be the "man of the house" at a young age. And it pays off as he manages accomplish things at a much younger age than other state alchemists, praised as a genius. And yet every now and then the mask breaks and you see that he's still a kid who struggles to deal with this stuff at his age, and pitifully grateful whenever he has an adult he genuinely trusts helping them to lean on. Rather than just a detail to me it's like 90% of Ed's character. He's "I can do this dad stop treating me like a kid" personified. (Heck his sensitivity about his height is an allusion to this as well.)

To me, it felt like this: The Brotherhood version, "Oh my god, he merged his own daughter...!" While in the 2003 version, "Oh my god, he killed Nina..!"

In 2003, Tucker's words about Ed being perceptive makes even more sense because Ed deducted things and put everything together before it even happens. Also, Tucker said that Edward tried human transmutation, just because he wanted to prove he could. While it isn't entirely true, it kind of is and has so much meaning. Even Alphonse expressed concern for their idea, but Ed just shot him down, claiming the adults and their dad were just frustrated because they had failed to do the successful human transmutation, so he was basically determined to do what they couldn't. (Also, love that you mentioned Al's moment of anger towards Shou Tucker.)

@matteste

5 жыл бұрын

Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that.

@QuikVidGuy

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah the whole "you're just as bad as me because you made this choice" speech is a little weak when it can be torn down with "I was like 9????"

I just want to create a transmutation circle to merge the manga and both anime adaptations together to create the perfect story. I'd call it Full Metal Alchemist: Chimera

I really enjoy your series. As someone who watched 2003 FMA first (and was traumatized by Hughes death so much that I stopped watching it and didn't pick it up for a year), I really appreciate how you give credit for the good parts of the old FMA. Too many people who knows Brotherhood first are infatuated with the cool action, the high quality animation and the grandiose plot, while missing on how great the character interactions and emotional depths - the human bits - are in the old series. So yeah, it's nice. =)

The thing that sticks with me about the Chimera scene is not actually the brutal transformation, or the tragedy that Nina is lost forever, though those are impactful. It's when Mustang doesn't sugar coat things when telling Ed and Al about Shou Tucker's creation. "It only said one thing. 'I want to die' and then it refused to eat until it got its wish." That, for whatever reason impacted me way more.

For all that Ed in the manga and Brotherhood isn't a stone-cold badass wish fulfillment character in the vein of, say, Kenshiro or Jotaro, he's definitely portrayed as more of a paragon/role model than 2003!Ed is. And I think this is where a lot of the complaints about 2003!Ed's characterization stem from. He is in some ways a deconstruction of his manga self, where things that are his greatest strengths in the source material (his strong ideology and iron will, for example) are portrayed in the 2003 series as less unambiguously positive traits, when they're not being portrayed as outright character flaws. Neither approach is objectively better. But if you come into the 2003 series with the expectation of Edward being more of an aspirational kind of character -- and if you're deeply attached to him in this kind of role -- his portrayal in 2003 could definitely be seen as a kind of betrayal. 'Who is this childish brat and what did he do with this character that I enjoy and admire so much?' I had the opposite problem. I was introduced to Edward in his 2003 iteration, and so I found his mangahood characterization to be improbably resilient and a lot less engaging. Admittedly, I have a preference for deeply flawed 'human disaster'-type characters, so I was probably always going to prefer the 2003 version, no matter which order I was exposed. I tend to latch onto antiheroes and antagonists precisely because they usually have more flaws than the heroes. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that, intellectually, I understand why 03!Ed's characterization bothers many fans of mangahood. But my personal preferences guaranteed that I would always feel the opposite.

@MrMarinus18

3 жыл бұрын

Some parts of 2003 do feel a little too melodramatic. One scene that really felt like that was when Ed get's frustrated with the slow progress and they have a long emotional scene about that. I mean everyone has moments where they are studying for something important and they get frustrated with it. Making a long emotional moment out of it really feels like making the problem bigger than it needs to be. To me Brotherhood Ed just comes across as much older. When I first watched Brotherhood I guessed Ed at around age 17 or 18. He's still shocked and disturbed by what's happening around him but he can take it.

@manofwisdom000

Жыл бұрын

@@MrMarinus18 Typical Brotherhood fan statement. 2003 is superior to Brotherhood.

I think given what happens later with Al, 2003 implies thedegree he's losing his Humanity is greater than that of Brotherhood and the Manga- he cant feel that pain anymore either. But yeah. 2003 is my favorite here. Spends its time on this arc well (and more time) and makes Scar wayyy more sypathetic seeming, less of a scary killer and more someone who empathizes with Nina and puts what she was made into out of its misery.

Man, at 12 years old, this shit probably broke Ed at the time. I personally think this is a MUCH more powerful scene in 2003, mainly because of how darker and more dramatic it is. Brotherhood made it more dramatic, but on an epic level (which is the way the usually handles the older events.) But it still is almost really close and almost just as good as 2003.

You did us dirty with this intro 😅 My heart aches from the moment, but I also feel the sense of laughter trying to stir within me as well

2003 is the only version of this story that I've ever watched/read and I really appreciate you going into all the differences here. Everyone always talks about Brotherhood being great and its kind of validating to see it being talked about in a slightly more negative way but still one that acknowledges all of the stuff that it does well too. This makes me want to read the manga....

@jeweerly2319

4 жыл бұрын

you read the 2003 version ?????

Honestly, Mustang's character is a lot more morally questionable in 2003, and as a result I actually prefer that version of the character and root for him more. The fact that he is so self serving initially makes his sacrifices in the end, and his coup against Bradley much more noble and very cathartic.

I have to admit, I like how fair this series is being to both anime and the manga. And that the manga is being included in the conversation as its own separate beast. It's easy to dismiss 2003 as not being worth looking at for going off on its own, and it's easy to dismiss Brotherhood for stumbling quite a bit in its early episodes. So I appreciate each being given a fair chance to stand and fall on their own merits.

I love how you cover more content in this version but the old video is still longer.

These analysis videos are fantastic! This is the arc in which I fully realized how much better the lighting is in 2003. Not that Brotherhood's lighting is bad, or that 2003's is always perfect, but 2003 definitely has higher highs when it comes to dark, moody lighting. I'm not a fan of how desaturated the reveal scene in brotherhood is, it makes the scene feel very flat and lifeless. The shadows in 2003 though give so much visual depth to the scene.

I love how you concisely address the strong and weak points of all three versions fairly, because it really is true that each is amazing in their own way! I think it's notable that 2003 gave 2 episodes of the brothers staying with Tucker, because the lighthearted filler and growth the boys undergo throughout the exam is done with Nina and it really does make you feel like she'll be an important character throughout the series. Seeing the brother-sister bond form between them doesn't feel like a one-off adventure, and even though Tucker's true nature was made a bit more obvious throughout the arc in 2003 what he did to Nina still comes as a horrible surprise (made even stronger with his moments of hesitation when considering his actions and his own bonding with the boys). Love this comparison, and I'm excited to see more analyses from you!

The Nina situation had more impact in the 2003 series. First time I saw it, I was shocked and horrified. Yes, I know shou was pressured by Grand, but that is no excuse for what he did to his family.

Something that bothered me in Brotherhood’s version of the Nina incident was what Tucker said while Ed was beating him up. In 03 Tucker seemed more defeated and didn’t even really try to rationalise his decision, he just said he did it because he could, it was framed as a rash desperate decision which I personally think is the most understandable way to frame it. In Brotherhood he went all psycho villain and started screaming about how him and Ed were the same, that they saw the opportunity and took it. His overtly villainous grin while he yells at Ed saying “we’re the same” is just too cheesy and overdone for me, 03’s interpretation of that scene felt a lot more believable to me.

@manofwisdom000

Жыл бұрын

Right. Brotherhood in general always gives off Saturday Morning Cartoon vibes.

The final thing about the focus being on Ed's feelings in 2003 and Al not really being shown to care much at all, is actually a positive in my book. It emphasizes an already established aspect of Al, in that he cannot feel anymore. This is exactly in line with him suggesting their next move instead of taking time to grieve properly; he is a child (even younger than Ed) forced to become a cold, metal man in more than one way. Sure, there's no fervency or direct pathos in it, but you can do compelling stuff with more subtlety as well, and I think it is quite powerful. Well, that's my take on it anyway.

Thanks for getting me back into Fullmetal Alchemist! You motivated me to buy the 2003 blu-rays and create my first new video in over a year. Much love and keep up the great work Lowart!

I'm so glad that I saw FA (2003) first

I've said this in other FMA video comments before but I feel that these are fundamentally different genres. (I don't read manga so I'm only talking about the anime here.) 2003 is a drama, a character study, it is a story about loss, and accepting helplessness. It's a story about growing up and accepting limits. Brotherhood is a shonen adventure, certainly darker than most shonen, but still, it's an adventure of two boys overcoming obstacles and making things right. Personally, I watched 2003 first. I heard a lot of stuff on Tumblr about brotherhood, and I started to watch the first episode, but the beginning introduced so little that I went to the 2003 version since I wasn't sure if it was more of an Inuyasha & Inuyasha: The final act thing. I think it's a real shame that brotherhood relies so heavily on 2003 or the manga to introduce things since it seems better suited for an earlier developmental stage. I got into these two this summer. I had just spent my first year at college in a different country, and my grannie was just getting diagnosed with dementia, a number of people in my community had died, and I was facing the fact that I was an adult. Because of this 2003 really resonated with me. It helped really feel the idea of time only moving forward, you can't make things not happen, you can't always act like a child, and you can't always be right. Brotherhood I think is more useful at an earlier life stage, still a growing up story, but one maybe starting secondary school, it has the theme of pushing forward but it's more about exploring your strengths and improving than accepting your weaknesses and accepting failures. I'm hoping my words here are okay, they're making more sense in my head, but translating them isn't super easy. I still think compared to most shonen brotherhood is mature and dark, it's just against 2003, it's a lot lighter. I wrote like 7 paragraphs here about shamballa and the 2003 ending vs. Brotherhood, but I think since that's a bit much and straying off topic I should leave it for maybe something better than youtube comments (maybe I should make a video) I'll just leave my most controversial opinions here. I prefer the 2003 ending, I liked the concept of Shamballa, and the film itself wasn't bad, although it did have it's problems. Brotherhood's ending gives too much back, and I don't feel that Ed and Al really lost enough in the long run with the tone that FMA has about moving forward and equivalent exchange.

@android19willpwn

5 жыл бұрын

Honestly I think 2003 is better suited to a first viewing as far as age demographics go, too. It's the kind of dark that's great for younger audiences, since it's not so bleak or so dense that you need an adult constitution to appreciate it, but it IS dark enough that younger audiences won't really be used to it yet. Kids in middle school/early high school really thrive on that kind of media, while the lighter action/adventure of Brotherhood is more suited to people in their mid-teens and early twenties who just want something entertaining.

I also think something that immediately stuck out to me was Ed's initial response to Nina in Brotherhood vs. the 2003 version, as they characterize Ed very differently, and in some ways, diminish Edward's character in the case of Brotherhood. When faced with Nina in Brotherhood, I find Ed acts almost naive, excited to hear Tucker's research and see his results, actually complimenting Tucker on his effort when he sees the result, before coming to a seemingly baseless conclusion that Tucker had transmuted Nina. There is not prior suspicion or research Ed took much like in the 2003 version of the show, and he suddenly just is face with someone he dearly loved taken away from him. In the 2003 release, you instead have this slow build over the course of the episode of Nina's transmutation as Ed becomes suspicious of Tucker early in the episode, leading to research and investigation by Ed. Thus, once faced with Tucker's' work, Edward does not at any point show a sense of enthusiasm, as Ed has already figured out something was wrong, and he was not excited to see Tucker's experiment from the outset. He is terse, and more subtly shows that Ed made hypothesis, and arguably only went to see Tucker's work to confirm his suspicion, highlighting a theme Brotherhood often misses is that sometimes when you seek a truth, you let yourself to knowledge that you may have been better off never knowing to begin with. The 2003 version better portrays Ed as a cunning and estute researcher, since alchemy is presented as a logical practice, even though it is handled as though it were magic. In comparison to 2003, Brotherhood's reveal of Nina to Ed leaves me thinking Ed was foolish, and that he blatantly missed the signs things were going wrong until it was far too late. There is no hint or depth to him as a working scientist and intellectual that the show would want us to believe he is for being such a talented alchemist, unlike the 2003 version of the show. In both, the point is made that Ed is too late to stop this from happening, but in the 2003 version of the story, you at least get to see Ed as a scientist and intellectual character still come to that conclusion against his best intent to prevent it, instead of having it thrust upon him that there was nothing he could do to begin with in Brotherhood. The moment is more powerful, and serves to contrast with Brotherhood in what Edward is. He is still human, and traumatic events harm humans even if humans don't come to physical harm. Something I never felt with Brotherhood, especially when it comes to Nina, as every moment of pain is immediately explored and discarded, instead holding true to the theme of equivalent exchange, where things are gained and lost, and trauma is just one more element that harshly shapes a person by adding something to them, and taking something away.

The focus on Ed's feelings about Nina in the 2003 version I felt kind of showed a bit of Al's isolation and Ed not understanding how his brother feels and contributes to Al's fears that he is not real.

I can't wait to see more of this FMA vs FMAB vs manga series. Very well done. I really like the 2003 version, and it's nice to see the contrast between them examined is such a top-notch manner.

Not sure if you missed it, but in the scene at 6:45 Tuckers eyes are open and are very clearly shown. Usually when we see Tucker his eyes are closed or his glasses hide them.

One thing I was suprised you didn't talk about was how Edward reacts upon first seeing the Human Chimera. In Brotherhood he didn't put two and two together that what he was seeing was Nina but in 2003 he already put together the whole picture before stepping into the room and upon stepping into the room and seeing her he realized that everything he was theorizing was true and that Shou was a monster, what Shou just did to Nina... and that he was too late to stop it. His facial expression showing him in such a depressive state showing that, yes we already know what has happened thus putting Edward on the same page as the viewer.

That's one big tone shift at the beginning lmao edit: oh shit just like in the anime

I just found these videos and I could not agree more with pretty much everything you've said so far. I never read the manga but FMA was one of my first anime with catching episodes on adult swim (mostly reruns of the Majhal episode unfortunately...) and once I could actually understand it it became (and still is) my all time favorite anime universe. That being said, I've always believed that while Brotherhood has a lot of great things that are missing from the original, that assumption that you watched the original definitely kills all the overlapping stories in the beginning and makes me super sad when I hear people say to only watch Brotherhood. Most egregious in my opinion is the omission of Barry the Chopper's episode with Ed and Winry before he's bound to armor. That whole episode has so much power as Ed's first real brush with fearing for his own life and set so much of a tone in my mind that it killed me not to see it in Brotherhood. In the same vein, the lore behind how homonculi are made in the original and Lust's betrayal felt so much more immersive as well. All in all, I've always thought the 2003 version went way underappreciated (especially with how many people have told me they didn't even know about Conqueror's of Shambala and just thought the whole show ended on a cliffhanger... -_-) and I love seeing someone show some love to it while pointing out the flaws in Brotherhood. No one version has the best of everything in this universe and I can't wait to see more of your take on that!

Funny art man makes pleasant dog music

I was waiting for this one, and it was well worth the wait... I can hear some genuine hints of sadness in your voice throughout as well, and appreciate that in some odd way too. Excited for the next one.

@Lowart

5 жыл бұрын

Happy to hear it was worth the wait! Thanks for taking the time to let me know that and for your kind words :)

You honestly handle this subject a lot better than GoatJesus. That guy is mad because Brotherhood is more successful.

@Battlesthegolden

5 жыл бұрын

Goat in general tends to get really pigeonholed in his thinking. While he certainly is a good analyst, he tends to disregard other opinions

@bunsmasterbunny

5 жыл бұрын

He also is incorrect on a lot of the things he says and is unable to look past his own bias' over visual preferences (not liking Madoka Magika because he is against cutesy kid characters being in a pyscological dark story) as well.@@Battlesthegolden

@MrInuhanyou123

5 жыл бұрын

i would be too, but there's a difference between being a dick about it and calmly explaining why 2003 was a phenomenon at the time it came out both in Japan and the west, which bolstered the FMA name a lot

@frogglen6350

5 жыл бұрын

@@MrInuhanyou123 Cowboy Bebop is better

@MrInuhanyou123

5 жыл бұрын

@@frogglen6350 there are a lot of legendary old school anime out there. I was just saying that FMA was a very popular well liked series back then

15 years later, and it still makes me so sad.

This series has been a pleasure to watch, thank you for making such a masterpiece

It is refreshing to see a comparative video that takes the time to appreciate and analyse what each version is telling, then settling on a personal favourite. It's interesting and constructive, and i hope it was more common in videos comparing adaptation of a piece of media

The 2003 version was the one I saw first... And this part shredded me up into pieces. I was also super freaked out. Just how could any father ruin his entire family like that?

13:13 I actually started crying even worse when the ending hit. the "Nina version" of it, how it shows their memories together and when, at the end of the song, Ed looks up, at the viewer, and smiles sadly, with tears in his eyes... Watching this version of the ending still can make me cry :'(

Can't wait for part 3! I love how in depth these comparisons are!

This series has been so brilliant, you just earned yourself your 37,000th subscriber

The 2003 version of Nina's episode is still one of the most hauntingly memorable pieces of anime I've ever seen, and I haven't watched the series in like 8 years.

Thanks, i was feeling really bored rn and some FMA always spices up my day

Oh wow. You DIDN'T like the outro sequence to the episode? I actually found that the ending song, despite being upbeat, took on a whole new element of sadness whenever I heard it after that point. And I cried all over again when they showed the images of Nina in it.

Agree 100%. I think the fact that Ed, and Al are just kids gets lost in brotherhood. Yea, kids grow up fast when they have trauma, but that is how they behave, not how they feel. 2003 does a really great job showing them as kids, and how all the adults see them as kids and develop that parental protective feelings toward them. It makes the traumas they face even more poignant.

keep up the good work here, at times in the video i had tears in my eyes, with work like this youve gained a new subscriber

This was very emotional. 2003 did this section wayy better than Brotherhood. It was very impactful. And then Scar.

That cover is amazing. It fits in such a weird, messed up way that hits on my humor perfectly. You have a great singing voice too

@Lowart

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I'm happy you enjoyed it :)

You evil evil man, playing that song; I love it. Cannot wait for part 3 I am loving this series of videos so far.

Awesome analysis as always! Looking forward to the next one! :D

You took the words right out of my mouth so many times in this video. Very well done!

Your cover at the beginning of this video is amazing! Not only do you have great analytical abilities but musical ones as well!

Glad you're doing this series again, I like the new audio :)

This is fantastic. Can't wait for the rest.

This video started on autoplay as I was reading manga. And the song about dogs started to play right as the dog died.... Way to make me cry dude

The first video in the playlist was such a riveting experience and then that song kicks in. I didnt even need to look at vid to know

No matter what version; the manga, FMA, or FMAB; that Nina/Alexander scene, hurts so much that I legit couldn't help but cry a bit and that question Nina/Alexander said to Ed; "can we play, now?" It's just a punch in the gut that she doesn't get what happened to her(I think anyways).

About people being annoyed at Ed lashing out at the whole Nina thing in the '03, it's important to remember that Mustang more or less forces him to work on Tucker's case as well, so he's got a major obstacle here that is never in Brotherhood or the manga. He's given no time to grieve, no time to sort out his thoughts, nothing. He's just expected to suck it up and work. It's a situation that would be unfair to an adult let alone a twelve-year-old kid.

I am HERE for this video series. This is great.

What you've said about the music differences is a good point and I know will come back again a lot. As great and moving as brotherhoods soundtrack can be, I feel that at times it just doesn't know when silence itself says everything. Also I absolutely can't wait for that Barry episode and exploring the bond Hughes has with the boys. This has been a fantastic look at all 3 views so far

An important thing to point out about Al's depiction of the Nina tragedy in 2003 is how at the end of the Barry the Chopper episode, Al gives a speech about how being bound to the armor has made him lose his connection to the fear of mortality. Combined with the earlier scene of Al acting indifferent and Ed lashing out, I think the point was to show that Al is becoming more detached and disassociated in general with their emotions, contrasted with Ed whose overwhelmed by them.

These are really good. Looking forward to the next one.

I remember how much the voice of Nina the Chimara disturbed me when I first watched it. I just stared at my computer screen in horror for a few minutes before deciding that was enough for a week or so.

gonna rewatch 2003 FMA right now 😂

Im loving these videos, you are getting better with every one!

Oh man. The iron blood Alchemist in 2003 is So obviously evil. You know immediately that he will die. In the manga, he was more honorable.

@sarafontanini7051

5 жыл бұрын

Grand was a more interesting character in Brotherhood/manga all things considered, for as little we saw of him, whearas in 2003 he was just a stright up asshole victim/minor villain who gets killed to show how tough scar is.

@MisterLandofLakes

2 жыл бұрын

I enjoyed the iron blood alchemist way better in the 2003 but that's just me

I love the 2003 version so much, the part where he's beating Tucker saying they're not alike got me so much harder than the manga or Brotherhood, I also love how he keeps trying go transmute her back to life after she dies

Dude you’re awesome for these

I'd like to posit a theory as to why Al seems less affected by the Nina incident in 2003. He has already discussed his lack of memory in regards to what it feels like to be a person physically. This is reflected in him being less emotionally affected by the human chimera than Ed. He is slowly losing what it means to be human.

this is great i can;'t wait for the next episode keep up the good work

your cover of that song was awesome!!!

This moment broke my heart in a million pieces when I first saw it in FMA 2003, still powerful in Brotherhood, but as you say, 2003 handle it better, the time we spend with Nina and her dog and the chemistry Al, Ed and Nina have, the contrast between Tucker and Hughes, the birth of Elicia, all of this make a factor for when that moment happen....hearts all over the world were CRUSHED....man this show in both version is just hardcore awesome.

Okay but was this beginning necessary? I feel so bad for laughing xD

To me it seems that brotherhood rushes through this part and it makes it feel less powerful. In like two episodes it's done.

@karinakamichi4557

5 жыл бұрын

MrYondaime1995 in Brotherhood it's only one episode, but in 2003, it has 2 (and a little bit of a third one) episodes that give focus to Nina.

@orvilgrunmeier7559

5 жыл бұрын

Brotherhood rushes through all of the manga content that 2003 covered. When I first watched this series I was told to watch the first 12 eps of 2003 then watch brotherhood and I think doing that was perfect.

@manofwisdom000

Жыл бұрын

@@orvilgrunmeier7559 Typical Brotherhood fan statement.

Glad to see that the 2003 series get some recognition and praise. And that really shows with how it and Brotherhood handles the Nina storyline. In Brotherhood, I just felt really sad. In the 2003 series, it was just utterly heartbreaking and soul crushing. Now to be fair, I already know what was coming so that might have taken some of the weight out. But since we spent so much more time with Nina and see how they came together. It just feels so much worse.

@KawaiiJackHonne

Жыл бұрын

2003 really kicks you in the heart

@lowart Dude! I love these, getting to hear a great analysis of a series I have not looked into in a while. The only thing is that it is getting hard to follow when you jump between the two versions of the anime. Waiting for part 3!

Thank you for going into detail on the differences between the three mediums, and in such a fair way.

Wow very well made video, especially how you use the music especially when entering the "Human Chimera" section.

@Lowart

5 жыл бұрын

It's wonderful to hear that the music was noticeable. I spent a really long time getting the music just how I wanted it and I was honestly starting to wonder if it was worth the effort. So thank you for letting me know that you enjoyed it :) It means a lot

The beginning of this video is amazing.

i cried during the "i love my dog" intro