He actually did it! The absolute mad man!

Have talked to a few people re results in this video. Some theories were, the modern fuel injectors being used here already do a good job of atomizing the fuel, over older styles. Manifold temperature; the intake in this test is very well insulated from heat, runs cold at almost all times. spraying into a hot manifold may benefit from change of state cooling along with general cooling. Also to note; engine ran a bit richer with the injectors in outboard location, possibly a better fuel mix. i corrected the fuel ratio before doing the test. Also had a little play with injector timing over a small range with no effect. Since there wasn't any fuel stand off issues I thought this would be the case. Edit: seems every 2nd question is asking about the injectors not switching off on overrun. simple answer is, i had tuned that feature off at some stage and seems to never turned it back on, so dont worry its just a tick of a box away

@KevskiStyle

3 жыл бұрын

As atomizations: That doesn't seem to play a role. Change of state cooling is a bigger issue, as is mixture at full throttle. Mixture at idle is where the prblems start, but also at throttle response. This is only prevented on downdraft applications, or at higher injection pressures. Fuel puddling is the main culprit.

@garage4k989

3 жыл бұрын

I concur

@uru-freemind7711

3 жыл бұрын

v10 f1 which were the most powerful N / A engines per liter with that fuel used the injectors outside

@doomprojectremap3411

3 жыл бұрын

future video: put the fuel injectors back in their normal location and use another fuel rail with some dirt cheap fuel injectors strip the filter baskets and plumb the fuel rail with 50-100psi compressed air from your work shop compressor. injected ram air controlled by the ecu lol.

@youwantshum9860

2 жыл бұрын

@@uru-freemind7711 reason is F1s revving as high as they could back then would benefit from a better air fuel mix at higher rpms

I’d be nervous with all that fuel vapor in the engine bay.

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

I had a lot of fire extinguishers around that's for sure

@jasonv9951

3 жыл бұрын

I imagine with ITBs controlling ingoing air velocity and being sealed against the block that not a whole lot can escape against the inrush air current, and with fuel only pulsing on the intake stroke there is no waste spray to get loose.... But just a guess

@woopimagpie

3 жыл бұрын

Ideally you'd run this kind of setup inside a fireproof airbox.

@danr8194

3 жыл бұрын

@@jasonv9951 as someone who has used standoff injectors before I can tell you that fuel does escape. Not much but it does. The intake pulse causes some droplets to bounce off each other. I even moved the injectors futher down the ITBs trumpets and it still did it but only very small amounts.

@zeljkoadzic1692

10 ай бұрын

ignition time is retarded or camshaft timing is not good...@@Garage4age

I don’t know why people dislike this video. It’s awesome science and engineering

@tristynleetl

3 жыл бұрын

Bet it was accidental. I too have huge thumbs

@SiroccoSeven

3 жыл бұрын

@@tristynleetl either that or it's intentional. Even I sometimes dislike some videos accidentally but immediately notice it upon lifting my thumb. I doubt it would unnoticed.

Это просто топ! На русском ютубе таких видео не найти, спасибо что снимаете для нас такой интересный материал!

@zeljkoadzic1692

10 ай бұрын

this is still hidden as a trade secret. it's hard to get information... today I'm a little different. what we did 20 years ago, others were still playing in the sand, some only discovered today...

It's cool the engineering that went into this

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

The cable ties ? 😂

This channel is amazing 👌😍 also I would have thought that hanging injectors would make more of a difference... Nice to see that it doesn't

@enchantedwenis4994

3 жыл бұрын

I was curious too because I’m assuming the only benefit from hanging the injectors is for the cooler charge air effect which is why I constantly see carbs making more high end power gains over injection. I’m assuming this is why Indy series motors run this setup because they are trying to squeeze every bit of HP from their motors with the strict rules. I wonder if we would see the typical % power increase or more if it was boosted to capitalize more on the cooler charge effect or would boost disrupt the spray pattern too much to see any benefit?

@youwantshum9860

3 жыл бұрын

@@enchantedwenis4994 in Motorsport standoff/shower injection benefits in the higher rpm range. The injectors hangout cause it allows the air to mix more effectively when air speed increases in the rpm range. You'll usually see power gains with more aggressive cams and port designs and also high compression engines.

@krusher74

3 жыл бұрын

interesting that them just being in the way does not restrict CFM breathing. (but it must do) so i would conclude the inlet isnt the worst breathing part of this engine.

I just love these videos, please never stop.

Good shit man! I've done the same test on a bike. The throttle was delayed down low, due injector timing, and the physical distance. Benefits of top mount; cooling as you said, and more time to tumble and mix, making a better bang and boom. Remedy for yours is; Bump up the fuel pressure as high as you possibly can, makes for a better mist, lean it a bit more than standard location. And last and obvious, find injectots with acute spray angle and more granualar. Everything you're doing is awesome!!!! Keep it up. If you can build an airbox that ingulfes the whole throttle body and bolt it to the head.

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. The fuel pressure one has been suggested quite a few times, may give it a go at some stage. Engine in this vid will be going on holiday for a bit, after a few more vids. a near stock engine will be going in its place to test some more experimental stuff..

Came here for more usual glorious 4AGE trumpet noises, added bonus of standoff injection. Marvelous video as per usual!

Beautiful video, loveve the slow motion 🥲😆😆😆😆😆

So cool about tuning. It would be great to see. This channel is awesome.

Definitely the coolest looking form of intake.

Thank you for sharing the information! Your merch is awesome I love it!

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

"Freedom units" 😆😆😆👌🏻 Love the build.

10/10 channel!

This channel is so cool! Staged narrow angle stand off injectors for the high rpm range will see a better gain. But really only a benefit for very high rpm engines.

Great videos as always.. Keep it up

this is the ultimate pleasure for ones ears

Lovely work, but you need to use a narrow angle injectors to reduce the wall wetting of the runners. All the puddling fuel on the runner walls are causing your vehicle to run leaner when you first open the throttle and richer when you close it.

@exploranator

Жыл бұрын

Amen to that.

@zeljkoadzic1692

10 ай бұрын

relatively...

@RattiMatti83

8 ай бұрын

Injectors need do be more out. Fuel cooling air. More air= more power and gif you another 1 kw

@devis592

6 ай бұрын

If there are two rows of injectors, one row is responsible for idling at the original position, and the other row is used at high speed at the front end of the ITB. Is this feasible?

@waelal-rihawi2496

6 ай бұрын

@@devis592 , look up "skoda felicia rally." This is the only engine that I could think of at the moment using that setup. According to my memory, it gave them an extra 15hp out of a tiny pushrod 4 cylinder. That is a decent increase if you ask me!

Very interesting, thanks for the video! 👍

I think you just saved me a lot of 💰. Time to buy some merch!

I'd love to see single primary diameter vs stepped primary headers! Awesome content you have here. Another interesting thing would be can WMI increase power on an N/A car that's not otherwise knock limited at all

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

I have a few header test vids on here, some stepped. from tests ive done, seems to me the the step needs to be of a fairly decent size, to have an effect. which will give a bit more top end. but will significantly reduce low end power as the rest of header will be too big. But i want to do some more testing on this in the future, see how small can go out of head without restricting top end

surprising and very interesting ,,,thank you !!

Nice videos. Really enjoying your content.

you are a real scientist!

The Yamaha R1 uses both inboard and outboard injectors, inboard injectors are used most of the time, with the outboard being used alongside the inboard at high RPM(when the variable intake is in the closed position). And at high RPM full throttle outboards are only used IIRC.

Great videos , very interesting results .

Nice jury rig on the fuel rail, good results. I bought 1 of your stickers to put on my virgin roller cabinet

@janeblogs324

3 жыл бұрын

Jerry rig mate

@davidcakers6818

3 жыл бұрын

@@janeblogs324 look it up, both terms are acceptable

great Channel

great vid.

Best video ever

Beautiful.

Thanks for sharing. I was expecting bigger difference, but it is what it is. Perhaps your normal setup is so well sorted out it’s hard to make any significant gains with simply fiddling with shit.

awesome work bro Thanks what i ever though about this was the best is to use both location low flow rate on the throttle bodies for low torque and response then you place high flow rate outside the trumpets but.... working 2 fuel injectors banks can cost a few compared to a basic one i drived newer injected cars where the injectors goes on the intake near the engine head and my actual car is a old one too, where it does use a old fuel ECU , placing a giant fuel injector on the intake hole, outside. and i feel that too , the response is a damn thing... more when do you use an N/A engine so now i am getting parts to work over an newer eletronic injection compared to yours the issue is : theres none ITBs i know would be compatible with my car lol

From what I know, BMW e30 DTM had 2 sets of injectors. Low - mid rpm were inside, while mid and high rpm were outside. It gave a lot of additional HP.

@Surestick88

2 жыл бұрын

2 injectors is usually a solution to full power requiring bigger injectors that can't run the engine smoothly, or stay within emissions at low throttle or idle. You don't see it frequently anymore because injectors have gotten better. It's not so much the extra injectors that gave more power, they're more a symptom of more power.

Its amazing how 200hp can make such a difference

v10 f1 which were the most powerful N / A engines per liter with that fuel used the injectors outside

Your fuel pressure regulator adjust fuel pressure relating to the manifold pressure. By having the injectors in the wrong side of the throttle body at normal atmospheric pressure, effectively you're dropping the pressure difference across the injectors by 14 psi at idle. My tip is remove the fuel pressure reg vaccume line and run max fuel pressure all the time and tune to that. Cool video it was very interesting. 👍🇭🇲

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

It doesn't run the reference line on a stock reg, so flat 3 bar

@corporalpunishment1133

3 жыл бұрын

@@Garage4age 🤔

@corporalpunishment1133

3 жыл бұрын

@@Garage4age ok i see theirs no line on the reg. Vertical stacks will stop puddles like older f1 cars but probably not a option.

In Sprint Car racing they run two sets of injectors. one just below the throttle valve, the other is in the head directed at the intake valve. This way they can have it lean enough for part throttle, & fat enough a WOT. they are running Alky

This channel is so usefull in doing all the testing that none of us have the money or time to test ourselves. You sir are the man! Appreciate all your time and efforts!

How educational.

Ducati used outboards on the 998,but they were a lot closer to the TB. A lot of bikes use 2 stages though, normal position for low rpm and all for high rpm

Engine Masters did a very different test that yielded similar results: Horsepower differences between Carbed manifolds and Carbed manifolds w/injectors in them. The carbed setup made more power everywhere, due to fuel vaporization and lower IATs. Goes to show that carb specific manifolds and EFI specific manifolds are two very different things and they cannot really be intermixed and yield similar results!

Another Excellent Video!!!! Lots of practial knowledge....... 3 Thumbs UP! ;) "Decel Fuel Cutoff & 2 Stage injection" It would be "What a Rippa"........... Love Aussies!!! Kevin Thornton (Extrudabody)

And another thing. While having injectors inside, their angle and direction makes difference. Some injectors are pointed in the direction opposite to airflow, but I think it's only in forced induction, because it could slow down the flow a bit in n/a (i think)

My guess-timation is the outboard injector location helps to cool off the air/fuel mixture. Appears to show benefits up top.

Injectors are huge over 4x what you would need. Fuel injection on production cars works like this: fuel is sprayed on the back of the closed intake valve that is hot and evaporates the fuel witch then mixes well with intake air. Atomization is not important. Injection from such far away from intake port should be better but not easy to tune and use. On worm up is worse and probably at low revs and loads. It would work better in a hot intake that is bolted directly on cylinder head.

Hi Im from Brazil, nice video .... very explanatory!!! I put one 4 Trottle body in My Vw golf...and I had an increase of torque ....

@andersonsevero5833

2 жыл бұрын

Olá! Como anda o projeto? Qual cabeçote vai utilizar? Um fluxo cruzado?

@mexell3174

2 жыл бұрын

@@andersonsevero5833 Ja montei um fluxo cruzado com trottle body, o carro fica outro meu amigo!!

Great stuff! However, if you pump up the fuel pressure you will increase atomization by a lot. Anyway, lovely 16V! Sorry, I see you have a lot of fuel pressure comments.

I saw an article in a Performance Fords magazine done on Glenn Seton's EL Falcon Supercar, it had a similar setup. In the interview Glenn stated the power gains were significant from utilising this type of setup. From memory the photographs showed the injectors were standing quite a way out from the inlet trumpets too, not even inside them. I guess if you're finding a few horsepower in a small engine (by comparison) with a jury-rigged setup and a bit of playing around, then a no expense spared race-prepped 5-litre V8 with a fully professional setup dyno-tuned to within an inch of it's life would see horsepower gains that were in fact "significant". Idle and low speed behaviour isn't really an issue in a V8 Supercar, lol. I've also read about some engines that run staged injectors - smaller port mounts for idle and low rev tractability and behaviour, then a gradual switch over to larger trumpet throat mounted units for high revs and full power use. Best of both worlds, if you will. There's plenty of aftermarket ECUs capable of running dual injector setups, it probably wouldn't be that hard to build a similar setup to stage the injectors. Something to think about anyway.

@PistonAvatarGuy

2 жыл бұрын

"... the injectors were standing quite a way out from the inlet trumpets too, not even inside them." My first thought was that the injectors were too close. They were probably interfering with airflow a bit.

Brilliant video. Obv' with forced induction the cooling effect should be more. Love to see that tested too. I'm contemplating mounting the injectors on my new turbo setup further away than usual up the runners (its got long runners) to see if I can gain something from cooling, but I don't want it to drive like crap at part throttle. Hmm...

@turbo1438

3 жыл бұрын

Here's a brainstorm idea. Two sets of injectors. One in the manifold for low rpm driveability and one smaller set up stream for added fuel and charge air cooling when turbo psi is up. Or control them by throttle position. Just a brainstorm idea.

@StavTech

3 жыл бұрын

turbo 14 that’s a thing, it works, look at the Ford Sierra RS Cosworth RS500s, they had exactly that. Four in stock place, four in the back wall of the plenum firing down the runners

@taz4100

3 жыл бұрын

More modern sport bikes do it also. With a 16k redline they come on around 8k. I believe the normal set of injectors doesn't shut down at that point, just stays at a reduced duty cycle.

Just a thought, but the situation would be different if instead of ITBs you were running this setup with a large plenum and single throttle body. Because in the setup in the setup in the video the injectors are infront of the throttle plates. Whereas with a plenum and single throttle body, the injectors would be down stream of the throttle plate. So when at idle, the fuel would be being sprayed in to the low pressure "vacuum" of the manifold; the fuel would vapourise more readily due to the low pressure. I had a 2007 Honda CBR600RR and that had a pretty cool setup where it had a set of injectors pointed right at the inlet valves, and secondary injectors up in the airbox pointed straight down the velocity stacks.

Would be nice too see the full engine-modifications / specs in the description. Good video altough!

@Garage4age

2 жыл бұрын

All my later vids do, but rather not give out everything on this particular engine. it runs a big valve head and 300ish deg cams

Awesome stuff... its most crazy that i think you sound just like me lol

Damn that induction noises

I always thought like the 2 stage fueling of old blown injected dragsters

Look at a sport bike intake. My 2016 R1 has velocity stacks that move depending on RPM, and 2 injectors per cylinder. One at the end of the velocity stack and one near the bottom of the intake runner. Good enough technology to make 200whp at 1.0L

@bengunn07

2 жыл бұрын

This definitely has merit and as you suggest with your example, the advantage becomes more and more noticeable as RPM increases.

"Danger Will Robinson!" 😲🤣😎

This is an amazing video to show people why polished ports are a bad idea, if you keep things slightly rough or dimpled it collects fuel and more evenly disrupts it.

@LemonMan_Man

3 жыл бұрын

I would like to see this again with a dimpled port and swirls and maybe a in tube venturi???

Awesome so interesting. I know it’s just testing but in the itb, you could see 2 shoulders up from the butterfly choking the air flow a bit. Also, seeing how the injector squirts out fuel like an old garden hose. I wonder if different injectors would be better to atomise them fuel better, or perhaps a ‘multi-jet’ type injector that does several mini squirts that might keep the fuel atomised more. Anyhow, great stuff. Ps I always wondered whether ceramic coating the combustion chamber fully would increase efficiency and hp….for a future rebuild? Cheers

@zeljkoadzic1692

10 ай бұрын

excellent observation.

very goods test, please i see the nozzles, is possible for you reduce the nozzles and increase the pressure to get better sprayer???

That shirt is sweet dude

This makes me curious of what could be done to an old mechanical injection machine. I see potential for a long intake pipe and pre throttle injection simply injected into the intake, giving time to atomise and run without complex changes to the motor. Simply doing some sort of physical delete to the mechanical injection and setup a basic EFI system. Now I really want to try it.

Well both ways are effective if you on a round course where you can stay at high speed and rpm the before injection is your best choice but if you run hillclimbe or Star finish then you go better with after or direct injection

This is awesome! Would you consider secondary stand off injectors for the small gains it made? Or not good enough performance vs $ ?

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

In my case too much money for the gain. as would have to upgrade ecu to control it properly. I can see how it would be worth doing in a race car situation, trying to get that last little bit of power

@secondstage4272

3 жыл бұрын

@@Garage4age totally understand, also 150 kw from a 4age!!! love your work

Have you ever seen the new corolla injectors with a long tip pointing the injector closer to the valve?

Smoother power curve is probably because there's less fuel being spit back out the intake or collecting on the walls.

Try the forst method of position from the injectors for the secondary Injectors is very common method on the hi level cars here in European FIA Hill Climb Masters

@kissmyaskew9844

3 жыл бұрын

What is the First method? Or has it already been mentioned and I missed it?

Have you also done injection timing testing as well?

Bloody impressive Mate! Are those pulls made in 4th or 5th? Any chance you can get RPM on the X-Axis in addition to Km/Hr?

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

4th gear. The rpm is at the top of the graphs. when get around to sorting out the tach signal, maybe able to get rpm on the real time plot as well. Im running into a slight driveline issue at top of 4th hence the realtime gets a little messy

Hi Buddy, Very interesting. It would be really nice if you could run a test with 2 sets of injectors, main set back at the intake port and an outboard set of smaller injectors to be activated only at WOT. The outboard injectors would mainly be used to cool down the charge. If you could take a look at your phase diagram to see if injection is properly timed with the intake valve opening cycle. That might help in reducing fuel stand off .

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

Hi, yes that would be ideal. unfortunately my ecu cant do staged injection with injection timing on each group. only has 4 injector drives. standoff wasnt really an issue. looks like it in the down throttle shot. but the camera is very close to the end of runner and fish eye'd. the shot from above shows some standoff at high rpm but is mostly on the rev limiter

@sergiogranato5562

3 жыл бұрын

@@Garage4age Hi, thanks for answering. With 4 injector drivers, perhaps you could sacrifice a bit going from sequential to batch injection mode. People comment that the loss is negligible in some cases. If you use 1 driver for each 2 injectors, you can drive 8 injectors. The question would be if your module will accept independent control for each set.

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

@@sergiogranato5562 batch fire staged is no issue. but using batch fire may end up with fuel standoff since cant adjust injector timing. Yes in most cases very little to be gained power wise with sequential. especially if not running very large injectors. tends to help at low loads more.

Wow, that's a lot of added power. This makes me want to do the same with my 3sge. Wonder what a realistic power goal should be. Would 250whp be asking way too much?

I can see there is a lot of fuel running on the alu tube. If you make this surface rugh then you can have a small gain..it gives a better feul evaporation.

Great job!do you try to change the injectors phasing with the outside injectors?we need also a video with electric water pumb!!

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

Injector timing was the same on both setups. I think it was pretty close to were it needed to be, as didnt really have fuel stand off issues other than right at the end of the run on the limiter. A few people suggested I try different injector timing anyway, which I will probably revisit at some stage. As want to try a few other things. One thing I noticed is it seems like its changing the effective runner length with the outboard injection. Guessing due to moving fuel along with the air changes the reflection speed. The power curve lines up with dyno runs using a longer length runner than used here

while engine braking should there be a leaning in the mixture? I mea nwhen the engine rolls out the amount of fuel seems massive

Awesome, did you end up turning off the fuelling on deceleration on your ECU? looks like a fire hazard if idling for a long time...I used to run a second set of injectors on my megasquirt, though that was a boosted setup so they were enclosed...

besides fuel atomization will you consider air ionization for your next test ?

Use duas bancadas uma próxima pra aceleração rápida , e outra distânte pra potencia... E assim que fazemos no Brasil pra ter um carro de rua e pista

I've had a look through your videos and didn't see any related to fuel injection timing, have you done any testing in this regard?

That's Great what to u doing . I have plans to make itb's and airbox from BMW M5 on volvo b5244s2 but on A fabric ECU and fabric sensors. Maybe will works😆 if not than put some ECU master😆😆 i will show it on youtube😎

Try using both injector before throttle and after throttle. And running interpolate between both injector according to tp by percentage.

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

ecu only has 4 injector drives. so cant run staged whilst being able to control injector timing. but yes that is the best way to do it

You could avoid fuel puddles if you remove the ridges between the different intake components. That's certainly what causes the engine to run richer with injectors outboard. Fuel accumulates,is sucked in while being liquid and not vapor,so it burns less well,and is dumped on the O² sensor,indicating rich. Fuel is supposed to evaporate partially when injectors are external Depends when you check the AFR : on the whole run including idle (wich is supposed to be leaner if fuel accumulates in the intake) or at peak power ?

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

Hi yes will revisit it at some stage. the intake pipes were just thrown together for the test. idle was fine, normal afr even though it looked like it should not have been with all the fuel floating around. part throttle rich when said fuel was sucked in as throttles are opened. once this cleared at wide open fuel ratio was back to normal throughout the midrange. top end got richer, (7000rpm onwards) this wasn't due to fuel puddling since well cleared at this stage. i assume from better fuel mix and more of the o2 being burnt.

@michaelovitch

3 жыл бұрын

@@Garage4age I don't get it. If it gets richer on the O² sensor,it's because you have more unburnt fuel in the exhaust,not because you have better combustion. A good combustion/fuel air mix wouldn't let unburnt fuel in the exhaust. Can't it this top end richer could be caused by bad harmonics in the air pulses ? When you check fuel stand of,cylinder 2 spitting back its fuel,wich mean,its air too. less air could explain a richer top end.

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

If there is a better burn for the same amount of fuel /air there will be less o2 left over, which is what the sensor is measuring. So less o2 will show as a richer afr. So yeah if you have really crappy combustion it will read leaner on the o2 sensor. most of the standoff you see is on the rev limiter or very close to it, went lean well before this.

@michaelovitch

3 жыл бұрын

@@Garage4age i get it, more efficient in same conditions = richer, because less O² is showing in the exhaust. But since injectors are outside,and fuel evaporates very easily, could that contributes to get more 0² in the exhaust,simply because not all oxygen was used during combustion,some fuel being evaporated ? I get it that the dyno show better results,so it's more efficient,but can it be simply more efficient because of the mixture quality,while you loose fuel by evaporation ?

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

The fuel doesn't just disappear when it changes state though. So pretty much all the vapour would end up in the engine. Since not hanging around long enough to float away

Hi friend, injectors backward the flow will be interesting, but don't know how much fuel will be goind outside on ITB

Cool. I like tuning my 4age red top. Give more power unicorn) what ecu do you use?

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

link g4 storm

if u make a longer runner but injectors are inside of throttle plate? maybe egts should be checked too 8 same injectors with rpm controlled relay?

Очень интересно!

I worked on this engine(15y ago). an extraordinary experience. my friend, I see that there are defects in the intake runner . there are many more details you can meade and that would bring you a lot of performance. it is better to use a modern injector as type DEKA, use Textolite | Textolite Hgw 2082 10mm an isolator to relieve the engine head temperature of the ENGINE intake

@Garage4age

10 ай бұрын

It has a thermal gasket and a 25mm acetal plastic adapter plate

Hey mate have you tried this as a 2 stage system, as someone mentioned earlier. With inboard being run majority of the time whilst outboard at close to wot or high rpm band.

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah that's the ideal way to go if if care about drivability. As to when the outer injector will come in will depend on the engine. If well sorted and reversion isn't an issue the will be able to be brought in sooner. I didnt bother with staging here as just a test. Plus my ecu doesn't have 8 injector drives that can be staged and injector timing for each group

I love that most peopel wont even bother testing. But you do which is really awesome. Can suggest any new injectors for a stock 4age bigport bluetop(i know bluetops are smallport. But i have big ports? In my ae86)

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

Bluetops are bigport. then redtop bigport. then red/black top are smallport. (engine in vid is smallport) then they went 20v head with silver then blacktop. If stock engine and ecu best stick with stock injectors. could be a good idea to get them cleaned and tested though being pretty old

if you have a big budget you should be running both setups in a sequential config normal position primaries for low revs and partial throttle and stad off secondaries for high rpm power

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah definitely the way to do it. but i have no budget 😂

Are you running the injection in full sequential mode ie squirting once every two crank turns or are you using semi sequential with cylinders 1 & 4 paired up and cylinders 2 & 3 paired up and squirting every single crank turn. If your injectors are such a size that your duty cycle is only 40% ( I presume at full power ) then your pulse width at idle must be very short. Can you get accurate control at these short pulse widths.

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

Its full sequential. 1 drive per cylinder. Is plenty enough resolution to get the idle afr right. but yes as you can see in the vid the spray pattern starts to suffer at low duties on idle.

Man I love all your testing Your the yoda Richard holdener But ....🤔🤔🤔 what if you wire the outboard injectors Parallel to regular after tb injectors But with a 3800 rpm window switchs But really gained not enough and I'm guessing the fuel mileage is running down your fire wall lol No smoking in car with ac on 💥🔥💥

Wow i saw 150 and i was like oh yeah buddy 150hp is pretty good at the wheels for an n/a 4age then saw 150kw and i was like whoa nellie i wasn't ready for that that's bananas! Great motor! Only watched a couple of your videos, what mods does this thing have?

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

Bit of everything, Aftermarket rods & pistons, arp hardware. oversized valves and port/chamber work. 300deg cams, valve springs, shimless buckets. about 13:1 compression. rest bolt ons. a lot of time testing and getting it all to work together

You'll get better gains from the outboard cause the air is alot denser with the fuel further away

You could really use fuel cut on decel :D

Can you run a back to back comparison test between running it full sequential and batch fire. This would be simple to do and only require changes to the settings in your Link G4. I would also like to see a test with semi sequential injection but this would require some more work. On your firewall I can see what appear to be your ignition coils. Are these 4 separate coils or are they 2 twin lead coils giving you waste spark ignition . Just a question out of curiousity as it would have no effect on the running of the engine.

@Garage4age

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah its old mitsubishi wasted spark setup. has been on the car forever, never had any issues with it so haven't bothered changing it. May run into fuel stand off issues with batch and outboard injectors. but in normal location should be fine. I doubt there would be any difference in power, but will keep it in mind to try at some stage.

Dang look at all the pooling fuel

I have some questions. Does your intake throttles not run cooler than having injectors at the normal place? If so Can you not maybe increase the timing a little bit with to get more hp with outboard injection?

@Garage4age

2 жыл бұрын

they do run bit cooler. but the transfer from the intake runners to the incoming air isn't that much in the scheme of things. The fuel does have more time to cool the air coming in. but would be more benefit to something with high iat's more. This engine isn't knock limited, so increasing timing wont do anything for power

Why does your ecu keep injecting during no throttle rundown?