@19:00 Israel was targeting apartment buildings on day 1. That’s why they were criticized on day 1, not that they’re held to a higher standard. Everyone is held to the standards of not demolishing occupied civilian high rises

@-_-DAVe

Ай бұрын

I don't see anyone at these campuses protesting the destruction of civilian property and lives(on day 1) by Russia in Ukraine, or Russia and Syria in Syria, or choose you conflict outside of Israel. Israel is objectively held to a much higher standard than any other country, just look at the sheer number of attempted UN resolutions aimed at Israel in comparison to any other country ever. Now this isn't to say we shouldn't have these high standards, we deffinetly should, but for some reason everyone else gets a pass.

@calebhonegger3787

Ай бұрын

@@-_-DAVe Do you think the US is funding Russia's wars? Students are protesting their own government supporting and enabling the actions of the IDF. Of course no one in America is holding sit-ins about Russia's actions - how on earth would that enact any change?

@manicdisciple3884

Ай бұрын

I think the Israel/Hamas war is different in that the number of civilian deaths recorded in the short time period after October 11th is substantial. Evidence suggests excessive indiscriminate targeting

@Justanotherconsumer

Ай бұрын

@@manicdisciple3884 they can just claim the “collateral damage” was “human shields” and sleep soundly at night, confident in their righteousness.

@pastorofmuppets8834

Ай бұрын

​@@-_-DAVenone of those universities have partnered with Russia and are actively supporting a genocidal regime. So why would you protest there? Israel's demolition of Gaza has resulted in over 100 000 casualties. Over 30 000 dead (and very much counting, given how many will be under the rubble). That is 3x more than the Russian invasion resulted in, in 1/4 the time period. So essentially 12 times the rate of civilian death and casualties. Tell me what isn't there to protest about there? We're all angry about the Holocaust, correct? Yet we can't be upset about this? Give Israel enough time they will kill almost as many Palestinians as the Germans killed Jews in regards to proportion of population.

Most of the criticism I've heard has been of the actions of the Israeli government and the IDF. That's not anti-Semitism. When I criticize the British royal family, it isn't an attack on the Church of England. Oddly, many of the ones who spread anti-Semitic tropes online and support anti-Semitic organizations are the one using that label to attack protesters.

@Justanotherconsumer

Ай бұрын

The existence of Israel is a way to get certain people who tend to care about the rights of the oppressed and other awkward stances to leave the country and stop voting. Not an accident that those who hate that group the most want to see them leave.

@kitjohnson2767

Ай бұрын

Then you haven't been paying attention.

@thescatman5029

Ай бұрын

One of the errors of the movement was the failure to denounce antisemitism, distinguish the Jewish/Israeli people from the Netanyahu/Israeli government, and come out in front of that early on. That error allowed the movement's opposition to label it antisemitic.

@averageuser4367

Ай бұрын

​@@thescatman5029for the most part, principled leftists have been denouncing antisemitism and being clear about that distinction. There are outliers, but that's always going to happen with widespread protests. Another thing that always happens with protest movements is that they have detractors. They have opposition. If the message wouldn't be opposed, there wouldn't have been a need for protest in the first place. The question isn't whether or not there will be criticism. It's whether or not those criticisms are legitimate. They're usually not. Conservatives and reactionaries don't need to be provided with legitimate reasons to oppose protests. They'll oppose them based on lies or exaggerations if necessary, whether they realize it or not.

I would like to hear them have this discussion with Palestinian Christians like Dr. Munther Isaac or Daniel Bannoura.

@Justanotherconsumer

2 ай бұрын

That would undermine the narrative that Palestinians are all “terrorists” (which in the American imagination has been conflated with Islam).

@Justanotherconsumer

2 ай бұрын

The narrative that Palestinians are Muslim would be disrupted. That’s a statement that the HP is far too conservative to challenge.

@LincolnDWard

Ай бұрын

@@Justanotherconsumer What? It's pretty common knowledge that there are Palestinian Christians.

@Justanotherconsumer

Ай бұрын

@@LincolnDWard given the number of people who try to portray this as a religious war between Jews and Muslims rather than a land dispute, “pretty common knowledge” is optimistic.

@-_-DAVe

Ай бұрын

​@@Justanotherconsumer lol sorry but cant take you seriously since you obviously havent seen everything HP posts or maybe you just skip the ones where they talk about Palestinian Christians, but you still make public claims based solely on your narrow experience.

17:22 “failure to adequately protect civilians”? Skye are you serious? Thousands dead and that is the best response?

@michaelward1341

2 ай бұрын

Remember when Lee Harvey Oswald failed to adequately protect John Kennedy?

@averageuser4367

2 ай бұрын

Skye at his finest. So much for him being a leftist.

@nbud7718

2 ай бұрын

Oh it gets worse!

@michaelward1341

2 ай бұрын

​@@averageuser4367Skye's position here is not inconsistent with the American Left. Biden and the majority of Democrats in Washington agree with him.

@diegocalquin6247

2 ай бұрын

@@michaelward1341 if you think Biden is on the left oh boy I got a lot of surprises for you

The invasion of Iraq was an atrocity based on a lie. Bunch of people died...horrible thing. This Gaza situation is an ongoing atrocity; how many children have died? Who cares who gets held to a better/worse standard on the international stage, both "wars" were/are atrocious...the way this whole interview just presumes Israel is acting in good faith (despite the evidence of reality) is really disheartening.

@michaelward7051

Ай бұрын

Dude, Hamas is a terrorist organization that took over Palestine, the people of Palestine are being held by a mafia like organization. Get a grip on reality. Palestine is barely a legitimate country as they turned over their leadership to a bunch of Thugs that created this network of tunnels to use the civilians as human shields. Do you want to have zero more collateral damage in Gaza? Start calling for the Hamas leadership to surrender? It's THAT EASY. The leadership is not even in Gaza, they are hiding in Dubai or some other city,.... To compare what is going on to any other historical conflict is just not accurate. Peace can happen today if Hamas surrenders their abuse of their own people. There are about 20,000 civilians or human shields put in their position by HAMAS that have died, 2/3 of the casualties.... It can all end if Hamas gives up their mafia control over the Palestinians. Again, Hamas is the pesky thug punk that stirs up the pot and runs away. Israel has had enough of their guerilla tactics and the way to do that is destroy all the bs tunnels that Hamas created.... So save us all the tears....there have been 10's of Millions of people maybe 100M in the last 100 years...those human shields are being held hostage by Hamas. That is the proper framework.

@-_-DAVe

Ай бұрын

Israel is acting to get its citizens back in the only way that is possible(how many hostages has Hamas released in the past 20 years?) To make the claim that Israel is somehow equal to Hamas is absurd/dangerous. How many of those children are because Hamas doesn't allow them to flee when Israel warns of an attack? But wholeheartedly agree we(all other nation states) should have come down on Hamas(and their supporters eg Iran and Hezbollah etc) for who they are and what they do instead of saying this is just an Israeli problem. But when it comes to Israel we like to sit at a distance and tut tut the whole thing. An Iranian friend of mine is shocked how so many people in the west completely ignore Iran's roll in creating and maintaining the tragedy of Gaza.

@Justanotherconsumer

Ай бұрын

@@-_-DAVe Netanyahu doesn’t care about the hostages. Protests in Israel make that very clear. They’re a good excuse to continue fighting, why would he rescue them?

@-_-DAVe

Ай бұрын

@Justanotherconsumer that's awfully cynical, in general I'm not a fan of Netanyahu either, he's part of the problem, he isn't Israel though, but the way that Hamas treats hostages every other leader of Israel would be going after them with everything they've got aswell they might just also be trying diplomacy aswell. Even then if they do get the hostages back that's not all the objectives they are going for, Israel is trying to get rid of Hamas, which is why Skye and French's chat is about how Israels current methods won't work.

@michaelward7051

Ай бұрын

@@-_-DAVe why won't getting rid of HAMAS not work? They are simply a mafia organization. In the 1920-1950's in New York, Chicago, Los Angels, the mafia types were isolated and eventually less of a menance. Seems to me too many people are conflating Palestinians with Hamas. With all the protesting, why are they not protesting for the easiest solution? Which is HAMAS surrenders. If French and Skye confuse the mafia organization with one of the three ethnic groups in Iraq, that's where they get things wrong. It's the simplest of analysis, Hamas is not an ethic group, therefore about half of this conversation was irrelevant, other than to prove French knows much more than anyone about Iraq. And we are back to the USA was never in the position of Israel, and Hamas is not Iraq. Besides, we are looking at 9M Israelis, 5M Palestinians, why people believe comparing that to 330M on 90M in Iraq...it's INSANE. But thanks for KZread, people can put out all kinds of "misinformation" Hahaha.

I understand French is giving his opinion on civil disobedience from a right wing lawyer point of view. I would like to point out there are some problems with pointing to civil rights protest in comparison to todays protest. The civil rights protesters had no power. They had little choice in accepting law enforcement's punishments from beatings in the street, prison time, and worse. They were ulso under a very different national culture and media access. Im not sure they would have just accepted their punishment from unjust, if constitutional, laws if their situation was as things exist today. Today's protestors have access to the ability to spread unfiltered information. To get their stories out immediately. To counter the status quo narritive often put out by national media sources. They have the ability to move consequences to those upholding unjust laws at a speed thats still fairly new to movements. They are not powerless anymore. I don't think one need accept punishment for acts of civil disobedience anymore. I dont see how accepting unjust fines and jail time is going to move the social needle anymore. To describe it as lawlessness is just broadcasting a bias. I imagine even civil rights era civil disobedience was discribed as lawlessness in its day. It may be true though that colleges have favored ideological groups and those they restrict. There are right wing schools that exhibit this too, but French only speaks of left leaning examples. In all things harm should be considered, ecen in what speech is allowed in public spaces. And depending on which traditional christian sexual values that group were upholding, its possible what they were advocating for were ideas that have brought about much harm to others.

@manicdisciple3884

Ай бұрын

I hadn't thought of this perspective but I agree. Describing this as 'lawlessness' is a biased perspective. The matter in this case is does it actually cause harm. Sure there are protestors that take it all the way to violence, but most do not. It's civil disobedience and lawlessness until it's something that is *worthy* of rebelling against. Until it's something that *actually* matters. America is justified in even violently standing up against Great Britain. But when people stand against a country which is endorsing genocide? And mostly not doing so violently? Then it's unjustified? I don't know

@rogerlau4932

17 күн бұрын

The problem with having "access to the ability to spread unfiltered information," is that this "unfiltered" information isn't necessarily accurate. There's tons of info on the internet and social media. Like Q-Anon. The "unfiltered" nature of it doesn't mean it's accurate, or objective. And how often do individuals or groups "massage" their "unfiltered" information so it becomes "filtered propoganda"? We all need to double-check information, ESPECIALLY if it's information that we are strongly in agreement with. Don't forget we are far more accepting of information that already agrees with our own prejudices and preconceptions.

"For evil to prevail requires only that good people sit on the sidelines and do nothing." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu

@Justanotherconsumer

Ай бұрын

Wiesel’s comments on neutrality boil down to the same sentiment.

There has never neen equal protection under the law.

I made it 29 minutes in before I couldn't stomach this anymore.

With all due respect to the US military as individuals, the nation state of the US have a shocking record of nation-building.

@AntiMarxism21stCentury

2 ай бұрын

Like Japan and Germany? Or the USA as THE country that MILLIONS and MIL:LIONS and MILLIONS of illegal aliens flood into for a better life? Or are we like MUSLIM countries that force everyone to live under ISLAMIC rule whether they like it or not? Don't bother offering "due respect" as it's clear that you have none. And, in the case of USA supported Germany . . . MILLIONS of MUSLIMS plodded their way into that "western country" as well.

@michaelward1341

2 ай бұрын

​@@AntiMarxism21stCenturyYou're right that lots of people immigrate to America, but that doesn't mean the people remaining in the countries they left want us to come in and run their countries for them.

@3eyedcyclops

2 ай бұрын

@@AntiMarxism21stCentury Do you think that all Muslims hate you as much as you hate all Muslims? How do you know?

@AntiMarxism21stCentury

Ай бұрын

@@michaelward1341 Illegal means bad.

@3eyedcyclops

Ай бұрын

@@AntiMarxism21stCentury Do you mean to say that you don't understand the difference between legality and morality?

What if it's not lawlessness but a new and better Law. One that gives justice without respect of persons and gives dignity and respect for all humanity? Poor and rich alike?

The US had no desire to displace native Iraqi people and 'take over' Iraq. Our goal was to help 'good guys' take over. You guys are correct. I also believe, as discussed, that Israel does NOT want 'good guys' in Gaza.

@stephenboyington630

2 ай бұрын

Example: we did not refer to sections of Iraq as 'New Texas'. Many members of Israeli leadership refer to West Bank and Gaza lands using names that imply they are Israeli.

@pastorofmuppets8834

2 ай бұрын

So it's ok for the good guys to lie about a reason for what was still an illegal war..? As for the Israelis, they don't want humans in Gaza. Not until they can move in. That's called ethnic cleansing.

@Justanotherconsumer

2 ай бұрын

Israel wants Israelis in Gaza. Not as an occupation, but as the population.

@bkucenski

2 ай бұрын

@@Justanotherconsumer No. Israel treats Palestinians as disposable humans like the US did to Native Americans and black people.

@hanssvineklev648

2 ай бұрын

@@Justanotherconsumer. Yeah, and Gazans want all Israelis DEAD.

One thing is clear: we don’t have to wonder what we would be doing if we were alive in the 1960s during the anti-Vietnam protests and the Civil Rights Movement… whatever we are doing right now is probably what we would have been doing then. May we not sleep through the revolution, may we not miss the spiritual awakening and the social movement that is happening right now. - Shane Claiborne

I really don’t like how Skye and David (more so Skye) are characterizing protestors as immature, not law-abiding adults. Is it because a lot of the protests are happening at college campuses? Would they say the same for the BLM protests or MLK protests in the 60’s? The blanket overgeneralization for entire groups of people so callously throughout this video is disturbing. The laws of college campuses and the difference between free speech and the other buckets was educational and eye opening for me. But putting people in boxes to judge them as moral or not just isn’t it. Also there’s like zero compassion for the plight of Palestinian people here. What the hell?

@thezenlu

Ай бұрын

I completely agree on your last point, Skye and French both show no concern for the people displaced and attacked by the idf. That is saddening. On the other hand I actually think the conversation over the protest was quite enlightening and illuminating... The protestors conducting civil disobedience, I respect their stance and applaud their forthright action, but their is a level of naivete that has been coddled into the last few generations of protester, and the is "if I'm protesting for the right reason, my civil disobedience doesn't count" And that is short sighted for civil engagement. What we need to truly rediscover is consequence to our actions. The consequences should be reasoned before we conduct civil disobedience. We should expect them and accept the consequences whole heartedly... It's the same thing as with the rioters from Jan 6th, they think because they see themselvesas right the laws they broke don't matter, and that none of their actions should be seen as criminal... the same thing goes for these protests. Even though these protesters are in the right, morally, if the law and rules are broken, the results don't reflect that your protest was wrong, just that you broke an ordinance during the act of raising awareness. It's actually quite practical in how they discuss the matter.

@Justanotherconsumer

Ай бұрын

@@thezenlu French is basically making the same argument, by the way, it’s the “if I’m protesting and can identify a religious basis for my protest I should not have any consequences.” Abusing “freedom of religion” to justify all sorts of horrors is a pretty standard tactic in American conservatism, most notoriously with opposing interracial marriage.

@thezenlu

Ай бұрын

@@Justanotherconsumer yeah, I was pretty shocked to find I was in pretty close agreement to his stance on protest once he explained everything... I do love the power of protest and civil disobedience, but it actually does hold more power and credibility when you know it comes with sacrifice. The freedom of religion one's are harder, cause half the time it is things that civilly shouldn't interfere with the conduct of another citizen, but when it comes to healthcare for employees or providing of services to costumers it gets way more complex and mired... how do you legislate sincerity. How do you prove that the conduct is not one of hate, while they still feel a strong stance of not condoning. How can labor be forced when the party does not want to conduct business... it's all pretty heavy and hard to give quick and concise answers for. In some cases, the government should be able to provide quick work arounds... especially when the conduct is from deputized members of the community, but that does only go so far.

@manicdisciple3884

Ай бұрын

In my view, if you believe your government is committing war crimes or aiding a nation that is clearly committing war crimes, and then even genocide, I think it's unfair to call someone *immature* for going to a college campus and causing *civil disruption*. Yes, you accept those consequences, but you do so because the fact that you broke some arbitrary rule at some college kind of pales in comparison. I think there is a time and a place for protest.

@manicdisciple3884

Ай бұрын

Also, the generalization. Sure there are some people who escalate protest to violence or some other extreme. But that's not everyone.

Jared kushner also says Gaza should be made into condos.

Hey Skye - really disappointed. You've always given great challenging insight on topics of faith and theology, but please wake up to the realities of this empire you support. We as the church should be at those protests demanding that our nations say no to genocide, no to imperialist projects that slaughter so many for that sake of profit. I encourage you to open your mind and at least research the realities of this conflict and all other imperialist wars that america has waged. Listen to perspectives from the oppressed. Learn about history from the people, not the rulers. I recommend listening to any one of Michael Parenti's talks on imperialism or reading his book 'Against Empire'. Hope to see the Holy Post take a stand for what really matters.

@michaelward7051

Ай бұрын

I'll have to defend Skye here. There is no genocide going on. Hamas is a political organization, not an ethnic group. What the Germans did to the Jews, that was genocide. Your imagination has got the best of you, please reflect and rethink your observations. What you think you see, is not happening.

@averageuser4367

Ай бұрын

​@@michaelward7051what's the definition of genocide?

@storiesbydarksaberlight1517

Ай бұрын

@@michaelward7051 So if the goal is to eliminate Hamas, how will Israel know when they have done that? How many people do they have to kill before they get all of them? And even if they somehow succeed in that goal, since Hamas is an ideology, how do they know that the next generation won't become radicalized against the people who killed so many of them? Death begets death, and that's what Israel is doing.

@Justanotherconsumer

Ай бұрын

@@michaelward7051 is it Hamas being killed by the tens of thousands?

@-_-DAVe

Ай бұрын

Great to see how nothing ever changes, people experiencing this conflict for the first time knowing they have all the answers calling out people who have experienced it for the umpteenth time for having no clue 😆 also great to see the same arguments being used as 80 years ago which still have nothing to do with the actual conflict, propaganda is a powerful tool.

Skye referred to young people against the way Israel is slaughtering women, children, and men who are noncombatants as immature. Thats kinda horrifying that this is how he sees the killingbof 10s of thousands of human beings. People against the ecforts of Israel to keep food and aid from Palestinians so that people are starving, he believes are immature. If thats ok with his god, i will pass. Then they say that older people who enter professional life need give up their ideas and just become a part of the status quo...

When you say "labeled as", that communicates that its not true. The truth of the matter is that they've both been historically oppressed.

@michaelward7051

Ай бұрын

For those that love the oppressor and oppressed model, it's not really a mentally healthy point of view. Every human being experiences a level of suffering, that's just the way this life is, and to organize and cry for justice is not the way forward. We all own our suffering, and that's it. Dr. Viktor Frankl has the best credibility in this area...a good study. Better than anything spoken on this podcast...look him up, he's got a great story for all of humanity, meaning in life can be found in how we deal with unavoidable suffering.

@ConnorMarc

Ай бұрын

@@michaelward7051 seems you totally missed the point.

@averageuser4367

Ай бұрын

​@@ConnorMarche always does.

@michaelward7051

Ай бұрын

@@ConnorMarcyou wrote, “The truth of the matter is that they both have been oppressed.” My point is that you are using the oppressed/oppressor model and I am telling you that is a framework that doesn’t help anyone. Now, go back and read my original response, and you will see that it is the point. I never miss anything. Your choice, you can read man’s search for meaning, you will find the ultimate oppressed people and man who survived and his conclusion is that there are only reasonable people or unreasonable people. And on top of that there is only individual guilt not a collective guilt. The oppressed/oppressor model perpetuates an unhelpful framework. Of course the USA was created with individual freedom in mind. The Biden supporters are like HAMAS and love the oppressed/oppressor model. Read Frankl, you will hopefully recognize it’s the losers reference frame. No human being should live like a victim. Overcome obstacles. That’s taking ownership. Cheers.

@michaelward7051

Ай бұрын

Great minds think alike, here's a great reason why this 12 minute speech from 1988 is so important....DON'T BE A VICTIM and don't HATE others, especially groups that are not collectively guilty of ANYTHING. There is no collective guilt. Ironically, this message could sink deeply into Phil, Skye and Kaitlyn's mind, if they would recognize that they are falling into the same trap that so many do, they accuse white male evangelicals of voting 81% for Trump, and somehow, and Russ Moore loves this too, it's the collective guilt model. It's the pointing to the "others" as wrong. Well, invest 12 minutes into your increased knowledge and hopefully the Holy Spirit would take that knowledge and bring the wisdom to end the collective guilt model. This man suffered enough, in a real genocide, and his message has CREDIBILITY. LISTEN, and let that sink in. And this entire podcast theme, the David French, all of it is all "Collective Guilt" it's all Oppressor/Oppressed model. It's disgusting to watch, but I'm here to show you a better way. Be responsible for yourself, own your thinking, recognize that you may just be promoting a collective guilt. It's one reason there is so much hatred toward Trump. He's just a guy. He just wants to lead people out of victimhood, this oppressed/oppressor model. These Liberal Democratic lead HAMAS protesting is more of the same. It's the only script liberal democrats have, it's the message that you are the victim, the victim of being black, poor, immigrant, victim of the 1% that pay 50% of the federal taxes. Stop being a victim, and stop blaming "others" for things you don't like. Go change them in your own life. This is the new covenant, this is John 21 the last words of Jesus to his disciples, "What is that to you? You follow me." Go live your life, and stop trying to tell other people what to do. It's blashphemy to deny the Holy Spirit of God in another to make their own decisions. Enjoy, this is the value you have been seeking. Invest 12 mintues in this amazing summary of a life, lived not as a victim, but as an overcomer. kzread.info/dash/bejne/mn2C3NSMfrHSlMY.htmlsi=JLVrqH-de2PSYFa6

The Folly of Paul Wolfowitz.

Such a cold blooded analysis of ethnic cleansing as a strategic error! What's next months topic? Discussing the Holocaust as a PR mistake?

@pastorofmuppets8834

2 ай бұрын

Well said

@robbower5489

2 ай бұрын

Love your reaction to this goof ball and I knew I had no need to listen to one word of it to know how bad his take would be.

@pastorofmuppets8834

2 ай бұрын

@@robbower5489 I was hoping better from Skye

@michaelward1341

2 ай бұрын

​@@pastorofmuppets8834When I saw Russell Moore rush to the sign the "Evangelical Statement in Support of Israel" with a bunch of Southern Baptist that he'd previously spurned, I figured most celebrity Christians in the "we're still Christians but we aren't like THOSE Trump Christians" crowd would take a similar line.

@pastorofmuppets8834

2 ай бұрын

@@michaelward1341 Mike Kosper in a CT podcast even had an episode of why Israel wasn't committing war crimes 🙄 I haven't seen a retraction since, but I've since unsubscribed.

I do not accept David's characterization of the protests as antisemitic, but I do appreciate the discussion nonetheless

@michaelward1341

2 ай бұрын

How can you appreciate a conversation that's built upon such an ugly slander as , "the people who opposed the ethnic cleansing of Palestine simply hate Jews"?

@mj6493

2 ай бұрын

Have you been to any of these "protests"? French gets it right.

@bobbobberson5627

Ай бұрын

Palestinians are Semitic.

I liked your program today as it helped to explain the broader context the problem really is. Much appreciated!

Remember Isaiah 11:4. He will judge the poor with Righteousness and reprove with equity for the meek. Our system is very biased toward the rich and powerful. But not the rule of God. And when the rule of God breaks out there are going to be problems.

@geneshifter

2 ай бұрын

Just say no to this type of religion.

@jsharp3165

2 ай бұрын

What is the rule of God? According to whom? Palestinians believe in the rule of God. Israelis believe in the rule of God. Which version of God do we base our laws on? please stop with this "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" crap when it comes to refereeing this stuff. Because it's your OPINION that God said it the way you think He said it.

@michaeldunigan1067

2 ай бұрын

@@jsharp3165 The rule of God is justice without respect of persons and dignity and respect for all. Love God with all of your heart, mind, soul and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. The rule of God will be manifest and universal when the Law of God is written upon our heart. Not the letter of the Law of Moses but the spirit of the Law of God. It will be a natural part of our character and we will not be able to break it. Then we will be accepted in the Kingdom of God.

@geneshifter

2 ай бұрын

@@michaeldunigan1067 God already showed respect of persons when he will talk to some directly and not others, like none today. That seems very fishy to me.

@michaeldunigan1067

2 ай бұрын

@@geneshifter He judges without respect of persons. It's up to you to meet His standard and to sanctify Him. He talks to me.

It is the era of dunking on your opponents for clicks.

Great video, as almost always 😉 looking forward to the next one.

Thank you for the informative historical perspective with reference to Iraq and how it may relate to this present moment. I do want to say how saddened I was that you gave relatively little time to the incredible suffering going on in Gaza at present. As followers of Jesus, our concern for the poor and marginalized looms large in our daily practice. You both failed to have any substative discussion about this. Direction for a response, a lament, further action? In addition, you also did not discuss the moral issue of the USA financially footing the bill for the death and destruction going on in Gaza. As a follower of Jesus, I am deeply troubled by this and in conflict about what our stance should be. We really look to the Holy Post to challenge us in our daily lives as we seek to more faithfully follow Christ.

@michaelward7051

Ай бұрын

You may want to review the last words of Jesus to his disciples in the gospel of John 21. Peter was just restored and Jesus told him how his life will unfold. And John wrote these words for us, for all time. And Peter, like this podcast, like your post above, is asking "What about John?" or "What about other disciples? Shouldn't they be doing something that I think should be done?" That is the typical human response. We always want to know what "should be done" or why isn't John or some other disciple supposed to do this or that. But how does Jesus respond? He just restored Peter, and Jesus might expect some gratitude. But instead, Peter is concerned about how he stacks up with others. He wants to compare himself to others. But Jesus essentially rebukes Peter again with his response,. WHAT IS THAT TO YOU? YOU FOLLOW ME! And those are the last words of Jesus to his discples. So, what do we learn from this? You can follow Jesus, and you can travel to Gaza if that is what Jesus is calling you to do. But I know for certain, that you or these podcast hosts are not in a positon of Jesus. They can't virtue signal and put themselves in the place of God and tell others "What they should do". It's a return to Peter. If God is calling you to do something. Go do it.. It's 100% on you. God shine your light. But I have to say, your post above is still in the Peter realm. You want others to do something that you think is the proper thing to do. That's virtue signaling and it denies the power of God throuh the Holy Spirit to guide people to what their race is, what is their purpose. We are not all gifted the same, so just encourage people to follow the Holy Spirit's lead in whatever they are called to do. Let's stop all virtue signaling and hear Jesus words, "What is that to you? You follow me!" May you be filled with the Holy Spirit in this moment, and follow Him.

@averageuser4367

Ай бұрын

​@@michaelward7051do you really think anyone still reads your essays?

Thank you for this fascinating and factual examination of what's been going on !

I'm embarrassed that I never have heard civil disobedience defined so succinctly before.

Regarding Iraq chaos. Isn't this really simple? My memory is fuzzy but didn't this "public order #2" that said no member of the Baathist party would be allowed to hold state power from now on screw everything over? We didn't account for how truly Leviathan the Baathist party was in Iraq so like even random Doctors and Engineers had to be party members. The Baathist party wasn't just political elites. This in turn meant Sunnis entire elite and petite bourgeoisie class would be locked out of power moving forward and so they continously propagandized all Sunnis from buying into the new power America was attempting to create. Sunnis were a big enough part of the population that what America was attempting was impossible without at least some level of buy-in from the Sunnis. ...that could all be wrong. I was like 12 when this was happenning contemporaneously and it has been a long time since I read about this stuff.

@pastorofmuppets8834

2 ай бұрын

Let's also forget about the fact that it was an illegal war based on outright lies...

Thou shalt not #kill. (Exodus 20:13) / Thou shalt not [be complicit in #genocide]. More than 14,500 #children killed in #Gaza. The latest #death toll stands at 35,287 #Palestinians and 1,139 people killed in #Israel since October 7. (2024.05.07)

Wasn't the Iraq war also partly displacement exasperation anger the US really has had for Syria for a long time, but the calculus has been that the US has not felt it has public justification for that action? (A bit like Qaddafi of Libya was a similar fall guy?)

It used to just be some missteps by Skye… but Holy Post as a whole group has been talking themselves more and more into being a banal monstrosity over the past year or so. Soft words for real suffering

@diegocalquin6247

2 ай бұрын

what other examples of these kinds of things have you seen?

@Justanotherconsumer

2 ай бұрын

They have an audience, and that audience is non-Trumpian Christians. Many of those are still hardcore conservatives and taking a firm stand on the events in Gaza would lose them part of their audience.

@diegocalquin6247

2 ай бұрын

@@Justanotherconsumer yes I can see that. I've been a lutheran for so long now that I almost forget the dynamics of american evangelicalism. Do you have any specific examples in mind? I'm just asking out of curiosity as I'd like to list the kind of instances where these walls happen.

@michaelward1341

2 ай бұрын

​@@JustanotherconsumerWell, if they are trying to pander to their audience, based on the comments, they aren't doing a very good job.

@Justanotherconsumer

2 ай бұрын

@@michaelward1341KZread is not necessarily representative of their audience as a whole - it’s mostly a podcast, so the comments here are just a sample. They are who they are, and they’re not afraid of taking unpopular stances. Retaining credibility with the David French non-Trump conservative types may be more important to them than retaining more liberal audiences.

Pretty good show, impressed actually!

Good morning from the beautiful SF Bay Area. Thank you for such a deep and insightful conversation. As an old leftie I have to work to identify and undo erroneous ideas I have held. Thanks for your help. Blessings.

I think the best spin for this video is that David French has been a friend of the show for a very long time and there's nothing to gain by pointing anything out to him. Now that he has this out of his system, it would be best to talk about literally anything else. If you want an honest take on Israel, there are plenty of people out there to listen to.

@Justanotherconsumer

2 ай бұрын

He’s pretty open that he’s an advocate for Israel. Lawyers have a hard time turning off the “advocate for your client” part of the brain.

Oh y’all are getting cooked in the comments, rightfully so

@34:00 re: tufts, the group required leaders to make a statement of faith in the Trinity among other things which was against the school’s discrimination policy because it excluded some students based on religious belief. The group was receiving activity fees from the school and using school facilities and their name, so they had to follow the school’s policy. The judiciary did give the group a chance to change their requirements and suggested that the statement of faith could be in the mission statement but it couldn’t be a requirement. The group made some changes but not sufficient. I would guess that the group’s beliefs on homosexuality were the real reason for opposition, but you are incorrect to say that the group was tossed off campus because people were deeply offended by the group using freedom of speech and free exercise. It was against the university’s discrimination policy and they were given opportunity to change the discriminatory part while including faith in their mission statement. I did ten minutes of googling and found 2012 articles from the daily orange and World (which is Christian)

over 14,500 #children #killed in #Gaza and 38 children in #Israel, since October 7, 2023. (2024.04.23)

@michaelward7051

Ай бұрын

numbers are numbers...100,000 fentynal deaths this year...and? What are you trying to say? That an unprovoked attack by HAMAS HOLES should not be addressed? How about we just accept the events as they are? A group of people were unjustly attacked, and the responsible people were HAMAS and if they don't surrender, there will be collateral damage. That's the nature of war/terrorism for 3000 years. Nothing new to see here. It seems you want to make a point of 14,500 to 38? You create an artificial boundary for what purpose? Not convincing of anything. Improve your communications please.

@michaelward1341

Ай бұрын

And it's probably about to get worse. It's so depressing. I can understand why a person would not want to care, but I'm still glad I lack Skye's stoicism.

@michaelward7051

Ай бұрын

@@michaelward1341 well I’m in a bus riding next to the colosseum in Rome. So it’s probably going to get worse. Not really. 2000 years ago it was probably much worse than now. Rome has much to teach us if we take it to heart.

@michaelward1341

Ай бұрын

@@michaelward7051 By "get worse" I was talking about more deaths in Gaza. I'm not talking about ancient Rome or drug overdoses or any of those other things you want to talk about instead. You're welcome to keep talking about those things, but don't assume the rest of us have changed the subject just because you have.

@michaelward7051

Ай бұрын

@@michaelward1341 Oh I’m so sorry. You are Probably Palestinian. Oh my. So sorry for your loss. I hope you find a way to get of your phone and fight the holy war you wish to participate in. Congratulations. You found your purpose. Fight Israel. God’s speed. Under his eyes. May the Lord open. If you are not in Gaza now. Please buy your ticket. Good to see you are living your better life life now.

Very educational

Thank you for staying topical amid the whirlwind

The question is "What is God's will for Israel & the blood relatives they're oppressing?"

@patrickc3419

2 ай бұрын

That they would repent and believe the Gospel.

Wow this guy is awesome...

Eww episode

@UprisingConsulting

Ай бұрын

Literally the cringiest thing I have heard. I feel like I need to make my own entire podcast episode to address all of the issues with this one. To say that this filled me with righteous anger would be an understatement. Just mind blowing.

this video is proof that "I'm neither right nor left" kind of mentality is just as stupid and disengenuous as to those who are just following a group. Notice how not even an ongoing genocide and ethnic cleansing is enough for this dude to be talking about "civility". And he even goes on to bring up classic BS points like that Israel is held to a different standard when it's historically accurate that Israel is an aparthaid state from its inception, and it has illegally occupied Palestinian territory since the 60s. It is not antisemite to speak againts genocide, it is not antisamite to be againts Israel. No one who is truly informed could in honestly not be in support of the Palestinian cause, don't fall for the bs american ideology that tries to fool you into thinking otherwise. I suppose this is as good as liberalism will get you. But rememer always, being proud that conservatives and leftists critizice you it's not a sign that you are in the right track, most likely, it means nothing.

@Justanotherconsumer

2 ай бұрын

The anesthetizing power of stained glass windows, as a notable American Christian put it.

@gregorywaggoner1922

2 ай бұрын

Great comment!

@-_-DAVe

Ай бұрын

Wow propaganda much? Tell me which ethnicity is being cleansed? Your entire post is... I don't know where to start, I'm so shocked.

@Justanotherconsumer

Ай бұрын

@@-_-DAVe legalism? Really? May God have mercy on your soul.

Argh. Simply argh. There is not a thing this civilian can say that will have any impact at all on the co-host's perception. Not. One.Thing. I only hope Skye planted seeds in bringing up things David would not have even addressed otherwise. Argh. Having said that, I still would be glad if David was my neighbor or in my social circles. ...but argh.

One of THE most well thought out and real discussions on this issue. French effectively lays out the "buckets;" free speech, civil disobedience and lawlessness. The campuses caved into a MAGA led Congress whose goal is to topple higher ed, as opposed to protecting Jewish students. The protesters failed to denounce antisemitism off the bat (and distinguish between that and criticizing Israel's government/Netanyahu), demanded divestment from Israel, without gathering political support needed to make that type of demand, and allowed outsiders to institute, as French says, lawlessness.

Very disappointing interview.

I work at a campus where there currently are protests. French is exactly right on all points.

I have yet to hear a convincing argument for why Israel shouldn’t be held to a different standard in one context or how they are held to a different standard in the other context. I think it’s good that we don’t think of Israel in any way that can be compared to Syria or other oppressive regimes. I think not holding them to a different standard would be insulting to Israel. It also doesn’t seem like Israel is held to a higher standard than other liberal democracies it’s except for when modern day Israel is compared to stuff we did in WW2. That ignores why he burnt cities to the ground, we tried precision bombing and it didn’t work. We repeatedly bombed Switzerland on accident. I think it’s worth considering how much the policies of Israel’s government are responsible for October 7. Unlike 9/11, 10/7 didn’t involve a lack of imagination. If a prison is poorly managed and people that are known to be dangerous escape resulting in many deaths of civilians then are the people responsible for security at the prison also responsible for the deaths to some degree? Very few people would say no and I don’t see the two things as different. The border between the Gaza strip and Israel is very small but Israel’s government chose not to prioritize security there even though Hamas has been the greatest threat since at least the withdrawal from Lebanon. They made that choice because there priorities are: thwarting a possible, future two state solution, appeasing the radical settler movement, and not drafting the ultra orthodox into the IDF while also letting them drain resources which limits the peace time size of the IDF. I am not making a moral argument, it’s a pragmatic argument. I would likely view things differently if the horror of 10/7 was used as an excuse for the massive number of innocent deaths and/or if Israel was more transparent about their targeting decisions. I do not believe Israel is committing a genocide but I also don’t see how anyone could argue that they are as concerned and careful about civilian casualties as the US military. I think that was true in the past but very early on Israel said this time would be different so historical arguments are unconvincing.

As Christians we are more than conquerers. And we are told to occupy until the Lord comes.

@esknape

2 ай бұрын

Please tell me you don’t mean militarily. I know where you’re drawing this from (Paul) but I’ve also seen this taken to the extreme, that Christians should rule. So just for the sake of myself and anyone else who says ‘no’ to any form of Christian Nationalism or hegemony, would you clarify what you mean?

@geneshifter

2 ай бұрын

This right here is why I do not like nor trust religious people.

@michaeldunigan1067

2 ай бұрын

@@esknape Paul also said that the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but are mighty through God. We are experiencing a shift of paradigms in the Christian church. The evangelical movement, which has ruled for centuries, is under an existential threat. Because for the sake of seeing the gospel preached around the world, it has sublimated real justice. We are coming into a time when the kingdom of God is being established. A kingdom where there is justice without respect of persons and dignity and respect for all. Really ugly aspects of the evangelical movement are coming to the surface. Things like Christian nationalism and the excesses of capitalism and colonialism. Things which supported the worldwide spread of the gospel. Basically we are having an evangelical hangover. It will pass but it is very unpleasant in the meantime.

@geneshifter

2 ай бұрын

@@esknape I came from church of christ and they absolutely will say this very thing and, yes, military is part of it for them at least.

@michaelward1341

2 ай бұрын

@@geneshifter Do you mean Church of Christ as in Restoration Movement Church of Christ? Because I'm in the Church of Christ, and I don't agree with that assessment at all.

Finally you guys are showing your true colors. Bigots

David French and Sky tried to take the “very fine people on both sides” approach but forgot to say “and I’m not talking about Hamas; because they should be condemned completely”. lol It’s funny watching them get eaten by their own mob.

@averageuser4367

Ай бұрын

Trump supporters have no room to talk about "very fine people on both sides".

The silly song Phil insists on and the ads are many annoying and I have learned to FF are unfortunate and Ive leanred not to listen to this podcast if i cant FF pronto. Re free speech and the insane tent encampment is ridiculous- kick them out- send them home. Civil disobedience (break the law and accept the consequences- fairly punished) should not be tolerated- in the world I want to live in. Free speech can be and is repugnant (occupying campus space) to some and cant be unlimited. Quit accepting this lawlessness- make some f****ing rules- if they choose to attend there. Period. Look at the crap the world is enduring because of Israel and Palestine not working out their own problems and living like uncivilized cavemen ocupying space, checkpoints, dolling out water and electricity etc. How sustainable is THAT? So to take sides is ludicrous but typical of the US culture right now. And even better to appear sanctimonious and condemn Israel whos very existance is a miracle.

Interesting conversation, however the comparisons of USA and Iraq are not any where close to being applicable, and yet the blah blah blah went on for far too long, nearly half of the conversation was on USA Iraq and attempting to draw comparisons. Problem is there is very little in common. Iraq, 88 Million people. They didn't attack their neighbor, the USA went after them as consequence of 911. It wasn't an Iraqi attack. Israel 9M, Palestine 5M Palestine attacked, more specifically, Hamas within Palestine attacked Israel. They are neighboring and are Palestine feels entitled to Israel's land, and Hamas has created a system of tunnels to defend themselves, but Israel was never going to attack. The created the tunnels, so that WHEN Hamas would attack Israel, they could run back to their little tunnels like gradeschoolers. And then hide behind the civilians as a deterrent from blowing the living shit out of the assholes that attacked. For the podcasters to sit around and have a "nice conversation" is hardly empathetic to the situation. The ego to take what French knows so well, Iraq and what happened there, and try to apply it to this conflict was a disgrace to thinking people around the world. There's no comparison. Next, we have the three buckets, nice framework. Free Speech Civil Disobedience Lawlessness Well, the podcast supports Lawlessness, there's little Free Speech here, and the conversations are one-sided and full of slander against those that oppose their views. Hardly Christian virtues. And the crazy comparison that January 6th was a protest, or even a Lawlessness and to ignore all the BLM riots, the amazing young man named Kyle Rittenhouse, there was no lawlessness at the Capitol on the level of Kenosha, the goofy guy in the big hat that was peacefully escorted around the Capitol didn't pull out a gun and point in the face of the security guards opening doors for him, ABSOLUTELY NO comparison,. It's only called January 6th because the event, not an insurrection and now "Lawless" in the sense of Kyle Rittenhouse is just over the top by these podcasters. It's ridiculous. At best it was Civil Disobedience. Lawlessness was all the democrats supporting and enabling ANTIFA, the BLM riots, the attempted murder of a young man named Kyle Rittenhouse....say that over and over...that's the democratic party you love, they wanted to put Kyle in prison when a witness testified he was about to blow off his head. We don't know any of the dates for ANTIFA, BLM, Kenosha, Portland because they went on day after day, now THAT was insurrection. So what was the exact time of January 6? 6-8 hours and nothing happened, except an unarmed woman shot by an amateur security guard because Pelosi refused to allow the National Guard stand around the Capitol per Trump's request. Why was it denied? Because it was a set-up, and these podcasters refuse to believe it, or at least acknowledge this was what happened. Instead, the deep state arrested and imprisoned mostly people that were just curious. So curiousness became a crime. You want to make comparisons to previsous events in history? Here you go lawyer Frenchy, read about the Reichstag Fire, now that is so close to the so called January 6th because at the end of the day, it was a political stunt for the perpetrators, and those are the Feds in The crowd, Ray Epps, Pelosi standing down the National Guard, all to frame Trumps supporters that were conned into a tour of the Capitol.... There's your comparison. Democrats are the fascists, they are using lawfare against Trump, which is really the third bucket, Lawlessness. Democrats, opening the border by executive order, then claiming Congress has to act. LIE Just close the border, I'm sure Laken Riley would have liked that. The democrats have been messing this country up since Clinton, Obama, we have 3 good years with Trump, then the Deep state unleashed COVID with their Chinese friends. What I'm providing you may only by 95% correct, but it leaves the conclusion, that the democrats are lying to you, and you all believe it. Talk about making your government an IDOL, that's the democratic "christians".... Well, enjoy your bubble. 83% of evangelicals are voting for Trump, maybe 90% this time. Let's see what whining you all come up with. Enjoy

@averageuser4367

Ай бұрын

That sure is a long essay. On behalf of the Holy Post team, I'd like to thank you for the algorithm boost.

@3eyedcyclops

Ай бұрын

Michael, I understand that you're lonely, and I wouldn't doubt that your TV is your only friend. But have you ever tried changing the channel to something that doesn't make you so agitated? Because if you're not already in a nursing home, you'll be in one soon. And given the sorry state of elder care in America, residents there who are as agitated as you are tend to get put on heavy medications with awful side effects.