important question 1:00:02

Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq and Syria have fallen apart due to identity politics; this is an absurd statement. I’m not questioning the fault of identity politics but regardless, I think the US had a pretty major role in the mess that all of the stated countries are in.

@abdullahfaraj9803

5 жыл бұрын

Daniel Clint Totally agree with you , can you imagine a top political scientist don’t know this fact !!!

@MRayner59

5 жыл бұрын

First off, I don’t think he’s saying that “identity politics” is the exclusive cause of why the countries named have fallen apart in recent years, but just that it’s been a major factor in their national destabilization. Unquestionably, recent U.S. involvement in the region, especially in terms of direct military intervention, has also had a major role to play. Secondly, it’s important to acknowledge that in many cases, these countries are fairly artificial constructs that have existed for a relatively short period of time, historically speaking and so the tribal identities of their constituent parts is far more deeply rooted and more powerfully influential than any sense of national identity.

@1one2twoeyesonyou

5 жыл бұрын

In fact Syrians say the opposite they say we are all Syrian no matter what. This Fukuyama is a bit of a hack.

@JOONYERful

5 жыл бұрын

He has said that we, the U.S. didn’t understand all the different tribes and sects in the Middle East, and that’s why we failed to bring democracy to those countries during Bush years; because we didn’t understand the identity politics of that area.

@brandonramsay2999

5 жыл бұрын

I don't think it is an absurd statement. His main point in discussing those countries was to emphasize the lack of allegiance or identification with the STATE of Libya, Iraq etc. That is to say in Afghanistan there are dozens of ethnic groups tied to their tribal identities and not to the idea of being an Afghan. His comment was more so on identity politics within those countries and not the geopolitics of the region.

History has announced the End of Fukuyama.

I definitely agree with Fukuyamas last Q@A answer. There are many issues that have contributed to the current perspective of the “right” demographic. The Opioid epidemic being one.

@chadlyblomme

5 жыл бұрын

As it is directly tied in with areas of de-industrialization it more closely resembles the crack epidemic in lower income inner city areas than say the marijuana & psychedelic boom of lates 60s/70s. That is, it is correlated with economic deprivation and the resulting hopelessness & addictive pathology. Other factors as well of course

Listen 1:05 audio unfuxks

I’m just starting to get into this game, so this was a very helpful introduction. Great idea starting with a scenario from an older historical era, as it simplifies things considerably. Looking forward to the second part.

A system is not made of just supplying organizations. It also includes people who are the consumers, customers; basically organizations perform a social function and there are stakeholders in the systems for which such organizations exist. But organizations hold more sway in the system, while demander is completely disorganized. And social function is performed under such conditions, left to spontaneity, with no attempt being made to ascribe a social value. Suppliers respond to market, that is efficient economics, but consumer choice is not being constructed well whether for public or private goods; supposedly it is liberal economics of individual choice but authoritarian control is not the only things that restrains it, there are other factors, economic power, sway of organizations and new products which are being created without having prior marketa etc. Governments specially are not assessing the expenditure needs and policies correctly which affect the private sector as well.

Nothing wrong with identity politics, however, when ppl attempt to ignore/erase and/or attempt to tell myself I cant be who I AM unless I go along with whatever herd crap theyre about. Why Im Independent, no political party is going to give myself perimeters. Im being myself and dont need co-sign from anyone. I have my Independent thoughts.

I think the problem with identity politics is that there is no natural way to criticize those who have that identity. The pathway of blame is a one-way path that blames the dominant class for everything. In fact the only blame that goes in the opposite direction is for those that oppose the new dogma. The fact that all the acceptable fault that these identities see is external is a huge handicap for these groups to be successful and to thrive in any kind of society. It is a hindrance to any kind of real development. The fact that something as basic as law and order has to be imposed from the outside and is not echoed and supported by the leaders of the groups themselves means that their attempts at empowerment will invariably fail by devolving into political correct chaos and tyranny. I really had wanted Obama as president to be more like Corey Booker as mayor of Newark, criticizing and challenging his own constituents to be better, but he failed, and so has Booker as Senator. It does not matter how horrible your history was, if you perceive all your problems to be external to yourself and your group, you will be powerless to solve them and to be successful. Right now identity politics treats the people they are trying to help as children, relegating them to the role of a permanent underclass.

So THIS is the man that my fellow Brazilian countrymen are calling of evil commie? 😂😂😂

I thank Mr. Fukuyama for his book and his point of view which I agree with most of. I just did not agree with what he said about identity politics in the middle East. My family is from Yemen and I have strong roots and was raised on these tribal ethics and morals which are based on religion and I would say the tribalism and loyalty I'm those nations do not cause problems but serve what nationalism does in America. All Yemeni tribes see themselves as Yemenis and respect each other as such and see each other as apart of the fabric of the nation and its history. Tribes actually unite people on the understanding of the families and their morals and codes of ethics which their ancestors laid down for them. Yemen is not falling apart fue to loyalty and neither are the other nations like Afghanistan. There is so much more to it then tribalism and identity. Libyans, Iraqis, and Syrians are the same. In matter of fact a Syrian Muslim can relate to a Syrian Christian from his tribe due to them sharing the same tribal identity and go beyond religion and see each other as apart of a family

I was right with him until he started answering questions. He makes a great case against IDpol and then walks it back a bit when people challenge him. Sorry you can’t “do both”.

was worried i didn't understand politics when i read the blurb about him identifying economics as not primarily driving our political forces. It didn't take long before I realized I wasn't the historical illiterate :^)

Isn't national identity also a form of tribalism? It is utilised in the same way to create imaginary enemies and preserve hierarchical system. Society should be going towards finding a neutral point of view that is based on rationality avoiding going into any kind of dividing metaphysic categories like religion, nationality and such. If the goal of society is to make life on earth as pleasant as possible then the most reasonable way to act upon it is to only address physical categories that create inequalities, while staying away from imaginary, socially constructed ones that create unnecessary divisions and keep peoples attention away from actual issues.

@mydarlinggirlrachae

5 жыл бұрын

spot on....and as things worsen, the fear mongering, scapegoating and vilification is ratcheted up to levels that are just vile....and it has the desired effect.

@Dorian_sapiens

5 жыл бұрын

An obstacle to what you're describing is that rationality, all by itself, is not a very powerful motivator for getting people to undertake difficult, costly projects to make life pleasant for people other than themselves. When Hume wrote that "reason is and ought only to be the slave of the passions", he was recognizing this. Rationality would be a fine, even an ideal, solution if empathy were already in place and already extended to everyone who mattered. Tribalism, on various levels, can remedy the fact that empathy often isn't in place or isn't extended broadly enough, because it generates empathy for other members of the tribe.

@lepetitchat123

5 жыл бұрын

Nothing much we can do now, except to wait for these people with conservative values to die out , then maybe we have a chance at rebuilding a society based on logic, rationality, empathy and compassion. All this politics talk is pretty useless because different interest groups are not going to compromise for "common ground". There is no common ground in a zero-sum game

@xandercorp6175

5 жыл бұрын

@@mydarlinggirlrachae Proper healthy nationalism requires a synthesis of competing concerns and other complex factors that tribalism does not. Sadly, many will be as naive as you two are being and be convinced. Those that think that society's only goal is pleasure will always be the deadbeats of any productive society.

He is wrong about identity being so primarily important. The reason identity and recognition are so psychologically relevant is really because of the socioeconomic structure which deprives people or dignity in the first place in the most basic raw ways. That's because under corrupt capitalism the motive for the powerful is profit. The motive for a society where everyone can live in dignity has to be the use-value of the things we produce, not the profit or exchange-value. This is why predatory bankers are so powerful and get all the socialism they like as in the massive bailouts. Has any person in poverty ever been bailed out to that degree? One way to change this so that human dignity is structurally recognized is to transition away from capitalism, and a small step in such a transition with regard to the banks is to bail them out in the next crisis if needed and perhaps nationalize them for a limited term --- but only by lending or debt forgiveness to the private lenders, not the banks themselves --- and the punishment has to be on the people who run the banks, not the poor citizens who were given the bad loans. And the financiers who currently profit of CDO's CDS's should absolutely not be bail out, they have to learn to behave ethically or cop the severe consequences if their financial instruments fail, because hey are not producing anything of primary value that anyone needs, they are just parasites. (I would favour making all those secondary derivative trading options and instruments illegal, since they do nothing but shift wealth from the poor to the rich. They are worse for society than illicit drugs.) and What this will do is keep banks in business, but put the onus on the bankers to be more ethical, because while their bank will get bailed out in a financial collapse, they will lose their jobs because of their mismanagement and their unethical predatory lending. (And some regulations to prevent predatory lending would also not be a bad thing, if they are strictly enforced.)

@lepetitchat123

5 жыл бұрын

what you're proposing is a pipe dream. Don't think its going to happen as long as human nature is wired for greed

It is non sens. Why culture is changing? Is it because people instantly decided to have this culture rather than the other or it has a material basis? Culture is a spiritual lever to preserve the hierarchical situation of the society. Culture can never disagree with the ideology of society and not being changed and if it is actually aligned with distribution of power in society, it is actually because it is helping its survival.

Fukuyama has a very, very childish notion of political correctness. Like his vision of it is what a Fox News pundit describes it as, rather than having any remotely academic comprehension of the topic.

10:54 / I'm overwhelmed to see and hear again and again, the white male to be the scapegoat for everything arbitrary.

@self-lovingloser1108

5 жыл бұрын

Make that just men. Men (all over the world) need to organize like women do. Imagine the possibilities.

@ephraimduke

5 жыл бұрын

Get over yourself.

@yurona5155

5 жыл бұрын

Way to prove his overall point. Thanks!

So it is identity that prevents Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Afghanistan and others from succeeding. NOT THE INVASIONS BY THE US/UK AND/OR RUSSIAN. What an idiot Fukuyama is. I have been exasperated by this man since undergrad.