That person is a prime example of: "Dont ask question. Just consume product and then get excited for next product."

@zionleach3001

4 ай бұрын

I bet they liked the Halo tv show and the Resident Evil Netflix show.

@floydfanboy2948

4 ай бұрын

Hopeless people

You know what's cannon? ALL of Tolkien ORIGINAL WRITTEN WORKS.

@eXpriest

4 ай бұрын

Canon.

@markmunroe-hz8rf

4 ай бұрын

@@eXpriest thanks for the correct spelling.

@StalkerQtya

4 ай бұрын

Eh, you will say this until you see every weird stuff he wrote and then discarded.

@markmunroe-hz8rf

4 ай бұрын

@@StalkerQtya what weird stuff?

@StalkerQtya

4 ай бұрын

@@markmunroe-hz8rf Just look up the Notion Club Papers.

If you don't care about canon, you can just gorge yourself on free fanfics online instead of this billion dollars waste of time.

@WildZephyr

4 ай бұрын

You beat me to it. This attitude is fine for fanfic, NOT FINE AT ALL for actual, serious works.

@MamaMOB

4 ай бұрын

But that's not the Tolkien universe. You literally can't have Tolkien's universe without having canon. Because that IS Tolkien's universe. Without canon you just making up your own shit. And it is that. Shit.

@antoniofinotti8877

4 ай бұрын

​@@MamaMOB "and then smeagle and shrek had a child. And then spiderman came and stole the baby. And then the baby became the new superman" 😂 this is why canon is important To be honest though that would probably still be a more interesting story than rings of power

@brandonscott5544

4 ай бұрын

SKIP LORD OF RINGS RINGS OF POWER 😡😡😡💍💍💍😠😠😠💣💣💣💣🕳🪨🌋🪨🔥🔥🔥

@Asmallcorneroftheinternet

4 ай бұрын

People don't read.

"idc about canon, just give me more tolkien"...... news flash, sunshine, CANON IS TOLKIEN, AND TOLKIEN IS THE CANON.... and nothing else

@reek4062

4 ай бұрын

Unfortunately, fans of the Jackson movies don't understand this.

@arwenstrong2818

3 ай бұрын

They could just go watch a random fantasy show or film. The vast majority have similar world makeup, same magical races, etc.

@joh_kun5530

2 ай бұрын

I think the concept of canon within western society was pretty much thrown out the window when syndication and work-for-hire became industry standards within western entertainment, by corporations looking to either extend something into a franchise or to capitalize nostalgia. Which is why I'm glad Japan still hasn't given way to such practices in as big of a scale as western media - where everyone is trying to conglomerize and consolidate the media and subsequently erase any genre from being shown at all if it isn't hugely profitable or culturally significant. Mangas for example will forever be associated with their respective sole creators, and that's why it's so easy to follow as the canon is simply one straight line. And it's not like canon is an immutable concept in storytelling either. As tales become myth and gets passed down through generation after generation, there WILL be some changes to suit the current climate. The characters are the same but the themes and meaning behind such tales vary wildly.

The entire purpose of Middle Earth was as an exercise in Worldbuilding or creating a mythology. The canon was the most important part of it all to its author and creator. The world, the setting the lore was actually more important to Tolkien than the characters. The canon was the creative exercise.

@tjroelsma

4 ай бұрын

I think they're maliciously interpreting what Tolkien said once: "I've created this wonderful world. Use it to create your stories in it" as him saying "do with my characters what you want", which is the exact opposite of what he meant. Tolkien argued that he created a world só large, that there was plenty of room for other stories with other characters to play in it.

@petriew2018

4 ай бұрын

@@tjroelsma they're also deliberately ignoring that he himself abandoned that idea later in life. He always maintained he fully supported people taking inspiration from his work, but he rather quickly came to realize that too many voices destroys the harmony. All good fantasy worlds need a singular vision to maintain their authenticity. This was likely motivated by his experiences with early attempts at adapting his work, which usually wanted to dumb it down because they still refused to believe fantasy was a genre for adults as well as children. But he always encouraged creativity and originality.... alien concepts to people who think completely rewriting someone else's legacy just so they can use the name recognition for their own mediocre crap.

@tjroelsma

4 ай бұрын

@@petriew2018 Could it be that he belatedly recognised what people were going to do and that it was contrary to what he originally thought they would do? I mean: he created his world for his stories to be set in, but then realised that he had created such a big world, that it would be a shame to not fill it with many more stories. Only after he had given that statement and saw/read what people were actually doing (abusing his characters or making weak copies of his characters to kind of re-create his stories with different intentions), did he realise his error and tried to walk his statement back.

@dafyddthomas6897

3 ай бұрын

I read that first, Tolkien invented the Languages and then he had to invent some Natiions to speak those Languages and then he had to invent some History for those Nations and then for relaxation he wrote the Hobbit and much later he fitted the Hobbit within those Histories.

It's like saying you want more books, but don't care if they have no pages.

@LuigiTheMetal64

4 ай бұрын

It is like saying you want more Pokémon games, but do not care if the overworld Ability effects and Monster Balls are gone. The removal of those do not make the series Pokémon.

@ffejpsycho

4 ай бұрын

I want more books, and don't care if every page is continuous "Lorem Ipsum"!

you can tell in the Interview, Simon is tired of living in JRR's shadow. He just wants to see it burn. We should have expected this after Christopher's death, he was the last gatekeeper to the lore.

@reek4062

4 ай бұрын

Amusing, since movie fans always trashed Christopher for disliking the Jackson movies.

There is no "Tolkien Universe" without Tolkien canon. That's just idiotic. Just because it has names of places and people you might recognize means nothing if those things aren't rooted in the canon.

@YamiAi

4 ай бұрын

Exactly.

The Witcher, The Wheel of Time, The Rings of Power, people who stand on the shoulders of Giants and say how they got there themselves while shitting on the very thing that got them there.

Open hatred towards source material and its creators should never be job requirement in entertainment - and yet here we are.

The plague that Bionicle fans have sadly turned to: “I don’t care how different or dumb it is, I just want something new” It’s not about new, it’s about respect. When you lose respect for that which you love, and seek to see it changed so long as it’s continued, you have failed as a fan, and failed as a curator of the IP you have taken.

I had to deal with a guy that said that Sauron was once human and he cited the Rings of Power as his source..

@UltraGalaxyify

4 ай бұрын

And this is why we need to bring gate keeping back

@akumanoshi

4 ай бұрын

😂😂😂😂😂😂

@elmermedina1713

3 ай бұрын

Seriously?

Canon is extremely important because it also ties fans together. just look at what happened with the "timeless child" in the Dr. who series that completely destoryed canon and the fanbase.

@clogs4956

4 ай бұрын

Which was the whole intention. However, we’re still here, just not following stuff designed for the Modern Audience i.e. Woke yahoos.

@ZeroOmega-vg8nq

4 ай бұрын

Or staar wars when the EU was nuked for the mouseverse

@ForceMaximus84

4 ай бұрын

@@ZeroOmega-vg8nqI’d be Ok with it if Lucas’ trilogy was made instead of Disney’s. I mean, he created the universe to begin with, so if any of the previous EU stories interfered, it would make sense to drop them, but keep the ones unaffected by it.

@ZeroOmega-vg8nq

4 ай бұрын

@@ForceMaximus84 that would be fine in when there is good faith. Disney didnt do that they flat out yeeted it all and then had kathleen kennedy have the gal to say "theres nothing to build off of theres no books games etc"

@ForceMaximus84

4 ай бұрын

@@ZeroOmega-vg8nq Exactly. They dropped it all and expected no one to say anything when she made a statement like that. They’re treating us like we’re stupid.

Canon is the story. If canon doesn't matter, the story is just a series of events that might be connected and bear some superficial resemblance to each other.

Canon is the universe

I don't understand how that works either. I remember being younger and watching a movie based on a book that I'd read (I think it was The Princess Diaries) and I couldn't understand how could anyone who was entrusted to adapt a book that became successful for its story choose to fundamentally change that story. It seemed like such a disrespectful thing to do then and I still think it's disrespectful now, specially with something so beloved and amazing as Tolkien's work.

@RoseBaggins

4 ай бұрын

It understandable to make some changes, but not so many changes that it's barely recognizable in comparison to the canon.

That the type of consumer they want. "Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product" - Jay Bauman

Magic-powered mecha and guns that shoot magical bullets need to be introduced into the LOTR universe because its a fresh take. See how stupid that sounds? THAT'S why canon needs to be followed.

@335chr

4 ай бұрын

This reminds me I need to watch Knights and Magic and finish the manga

@nalublackwater9729

4 ай бұрын

Don't give them ideas...

@SpaceDikon

4 ай бұрын

Warhammer?

@335chr

4 ай бұрын

@@SpaceDikon i mean that isn't wrong

@pittland44

4 ай бұрын

When you put it that way it almost sounds silly.

If canon doesn't matter, then the story itself doesn't matter. You might as well write, literally anything and congratulate yourself.

This would be like if I decided write a Discworld book and decided to make wizards useful and less bureaucratic, Vimes less frighteningly competent, and Captain Carrot less, well, Captain Carrot, and declared that it was still Sir Pratchett's vision for Discworld.

For me it is pretty simple. I just want the people working on these things to respect the source material and the fans. Doesn't matter if it is Tolkien, Star Trek, Star Wars or any of the dozen other things that have been violated. These characters matter to people and in many cases they have helped define their lives. I think the most disheartening thing though is that the people that are taking on these projects are not doing it out of love like in the old days, They aren't fans. They want to shape the world in their image and viewpoint. I miss the Hope of Star Trek, the Good vs Evil of Star Wars and the finely crafted world of Tolkien. I miss Superhero's being super and Villains being bad. I miss having a story that is just a story, sometimes.

"I don't care if it's cooked or not, I just want more chicken." The result would be the same as "more Tolkien universe stuff" has been; explosive diarrea.

@mastick5106

4 ай бұрын

That is disgustingly accurate, I'm afraid.

Never understood that mentality personally.

@RoseBaggins

4 ай бұрын

Me neither.

@lakshaykochhar6799

4 ай бұрын

If it doesn't take from canon, whose work are you reading? Even the people that use that work as a sandbox, have to follow the canon to certain extent.

For consistency, to follow along with the characters and stories. Saying canon does not matter is the same as a murder suddenly deciding he is not going to kill people.

Dragonball Evolution is a perfect example of changing things for a wider audience and ruining things for both fans and anyone who might’ve been interested in the series

@matityaloran9157

4 ай бұрын

As someone who didn’t engage in the source material, we can tell Dragonball:Evolution was bad

We are fighting a war against bots. Bots with really lazy masters.

Give me more Tolkien stuff But it's not Tolkien

Saying they treat it like a sandbox is an understatement. Litterbox would be more apt description imo. They shit on it and then pretend the shit is not there but you can clearly smell it.

If canon doesn’t matter there’s no reason to watch

That quote says it all. "I just want more X, even if it's changed so much it's not X anymore."

I like how you revoked his Tolkien card.

Looks like somebody doesn't realize that Tolkien, doesn't mean fantasy. If you want to watch fantasy, then watch it. If you want Tolkien then start reading ALL his works. There's a good amount of it out there.

1:45 A remaster is basically a re-release of the old work to a new format in sharper quality. No new people have ever made re-recordings based on the existing songs in remasters.

@sboinkthelegday3892

4 ай бұрын

Gamers don't know what these words mean. Game remasters are literally what a re-recording would be, arguably the furthest opposite of remaster. Becase even a new work can be somewhat of an encore, like Evil Dead 2.

@LuigiTheMetal64

4 ай бұрын

@@user-gk9lg5sp4y I know about their album Still Hungry. Those songs are re-recordings as they are not remasters from Stay Hungry, and Still Hungry even has new songs.

@user-gk9lg5sp4y

4 ай бұрын

@@LuigiTheMetal64 Oh, sorry you're absolutely right. I was confused. My bad.

@LuigiTheMetal64

4 ай бұрын

@@user-gk9lg5sp4y It is still true that bands make re-recordings to be able to own their songs in ways. Versions are owned differently.

@user-gk9lg5sp4y

4 ай бұрын

@LuigiTheMetal64 That's what I meant to say. If the band thinks the song will still sell, they can re-record and own all the rights.

Anyone that says they are a fan and doesn't care about cannon is either a liar or a plant.

There's adaptation and there's reimagining, ripping up the original and using it for toilet paper like what Amazon did to Tolkien.

The content was popular in the first place for a reason. To ignore that is to ignore the popularity and joy of a thing from top to bottom. This notion is so devoid of self awareness it’s almost hilarious

Thank you for the video. You make some great points about what canon actually is. The idea that someone could want more "Tolkien universe stuff" without caring how it lines up with the existing works suggests that they have an extremely shallow understanding of what the "Tolkien universe" is. Just throw in some elves and orcs and magical jewelry, you're good to go... I think the situation with many modern would-be adapters in Hollywood is actually worse than just not caring about canon. With many properties like LoTR they think the existing canon _is actively harmful_ because it was created in a time when attitudes were more bigoted than today. So they have to make extensive changes to make the story safe for innocent modern audiences.

@RoseBaggins

4 ай бұрын

All while actually making it more bigoted than before!!

It's the difference between NEEDING to change things and WANTING to change things. I hope it it was worth it

Its oxymoronic to say "I don't care if its canon or not, just give me more Tolkien universe." Its like saying "I don't care if it has ham in it, just give me a ham sandwich."

You want an example of what happens when canon is ignored for consumerism’s sake? Modern Star Wars.

@graylykan2739

4 ай бұрын

And Game of Thrones post-Season 4.

@terrystewart1973

3 ай бұрын

Well, it's more an example of what happens when canon is ignored for an agenda's sake. As consumerism, it's failed as people have stopped watching (and consuming) it.

There is so much material. All they had to do is fill in the gaps and not contradict canon. Well at least we still have the original works.

Do you want your fictional universe to be engaging? Yes. Do you want only to momentarily distract consumers so they can jump to the next story without any afterthought? Then no. Edit: I wrote in answer to the title. Now that I'm watching, holy hell: if you don't care about Tolkien's canon, why do you even WANT "Tolkien's world"?

The people who say they don't care about canon and just want more "Tolkien stuff", don't actually want more Tolkien, they want more fantasy.

Canon is the fun part of fan fiction, it’s a litmus test of can you write a story that fits in someone else’s world without it you’re just making a cheep knock off

I'm a role-player, live-action tabletop in a group. There's a game called 'One Ring' by a pair of Italian fanatics who have the same passion for Tolkien as you do. Their game books are deeply respectful of the material, from the art to prose to language used. They're not the Professor's works obviously, but they *are* a respectful homage and a love-letter to the lore. They fill in details not touched in the books, things that are only mentioned like the woodmen of Mirkwood and Beorn's people. It *feels* like it would fit in with the original vision of Middle Earth. I believe there is good 'fan-fiction' as you put it, and bad. The Peter Jackson films changed things, and are not perfect, but they have a sincere love for the source material. They are not just 21st century tropes and identity politics wearing Middle Earth as a skinsuit, as 'Rings of Power' is.

@troffle

3 ай бұрын

I've yet to start playing The One Ring. Gearing up for it. I notice that whereas Gandalf might've made reference to the race of Men, TOR calls it "Culture". You know, a logic by which Aragorn having lived with Elrond means he should be immortal and ever-healthy. So, they're perfectly willing to sacrifice at least some parts of the "prose to language" for modern-day "sensibilities".

@Fionalah

2 ай бұрын

@@troffle I hope you played and enjoyed it! I took 'culture' to mean that not all Men, Dwarves and Elves are the same, that the Beornings are very different from the Gondorians, or the flighty Wayward Elves (more dangerous and less wise!) are not the lordly Noldor.

@troffle

2 ай бұрын

@@FionalahNot yet, I fear. I'm trying to pull my life back from being an unmitigated Orc-pit. I need to sort out a few practical things before I can indulge in the higher-intensity goodness therapy of TOR. Many thanks Fionalah. 'culture': ... I can see it might be taken that way, yes. Personally, I'm not buying it. In the savage old days D&D made reference to "race" and there was an element of (I believe the modern lingo calls it) bioessentialism. The first inference I took was that they Free League (and Cubicle 7 before them?) were replacing "race" with "culture". And as Tolkien uses the term "Race of Men", I'm fine with using that language in a Tolkien-based game. (Funny story: I had a discussion elsewhere on this site about this. Somebody got very righteous and insisted he didn't think Tolkien or Gandalf would use the term "Race" and it was an exceptionally great pleasure to quote him the instances in Fellowship. What are kids learning these days, because *reading* sure doesn't seem to be it.) Plus, even if Beornings are classified as part of the Race of Men, as Northmen, there has to be a genetic component as it's Grimbeorn's *descendants* who skin-change to bear. Please pardon and correct me if I get a detail wrong here, I've yet to start The Silmarillion or The Unfinished Tales. ... can't much say I'm impressed either that every Culture has the same total of attribute points. If every race is equally capable (with only three stats of Strength, Heart and Wits), Elrond could've just sent nine Hobbits; why did Aragorn, Boromir, Legolas and Gimli have to protect them? Somebody debated with me "but then you're all just going to play the strongest Culture for the easy win"; and I never heard from him again when I said "you know it's called ROLE-playing right? Some people want to play the Hobbit or the Dwarf, not everybody wants to surf down an oliphaunt's trunk shooting arrows". Some people really do want to play something other than a combat simulator. Surely Rangers and, say, the Men of Bree really are different in some physical way (which might be "magic", but Tolkien's kind of nature-essential magic rather than D&D-grade stuff? Which basically makes it SOME kind of genetics like the Beornings?)? Dúnedain live close to 200 years, surely the Men of Bree don't? All I'm suggesting is that "Culture" is a misleading term. The games and literature of yore weren't as constrained in their language as we seem to be now. I really need to get my practical problems sorted out. I very much wish to get into the game sooner. Heck, I used to be playing LOTRO. My computer not working (or at least, not playing Windows games) stopped me for two months, that's one of the practical things I'm trying to fix now. Again, many thanks.

Canon matters because the story matters. It's about integrity and respect. When I tell stories ny grandpa told me about his life I keep it as accurate as possible because I respect the story.

Canon lore is why anyone is ever a fan, without canon there are no fans and no dedicated audience.

Reminds me when the people behind startrek discovery said that were finally free from canon. Who in their right mind wanted to be free from Canon?

@mastick5106

4 ай бұрын

Anyone who wants to be "free from canon" should just write their own original story. Automatically free from canon because there isn't any canon yet!

Heartfelt thank you for the resilience, the work, and above all the ethics and intent in your vids, especially in the LoTR related vids. In these dark times we live in, and given the state of the world, one cannot exaggerate the importance of people like you.

"I'm a really big fan and love Tolkien's work, I just need you to change everything about it..."

When I first read Tolkien, I remember how solid that world felt, how alluring that world was. Hyper-real in a way I hadn't expected. I'm not necessarily a purist, but the fact that he poured so much into it, is something I feel fortunate to have experienced. It pains me that the attitude now is a game of one-upmanship, rather than crafting a different world entirely or paying homage to one man's imagination.

I feel ya. I'm a Harry Potter fan and since certain people in the fandom decided that Harry Potter now belongs to them instead of Rowling, fanon headcanon and canon got mixed into a complete mess. They throw out canon and god forbid anyone tell them that their headcanon has no basis in what Rowling wrote. Harry and James are now Indian, Remus and Sirius and James and REgulus are together, Lily and Tonks get ignored or bashed, Snape and Draco become woobies. urg I'm sick of this shit, I had hoped that Tolkien might be safe from this type of Bs but apparently not.

Casual fans don’t understand why canon is so important and it’s infuriating. It’s also why no one listens to what I say about the Disney fanfiction trash vs actual Star Wars (specifically sequels vs 6 originals). This video is spot on.

I can relate on that. I'm not a star wars fan, but i know people who claim to be hardcore nuts about this franchise, and they loved the D+ movies, dressing as kylo ren in theatres, the all sh!t. As i said, i'm not a fan (i'm a Tolkien nut tho), and it's amazing to me that i have more respect for star wars than they do.

4 minutes and 46 seconds of straight facts. The most succinct description of why canon matters from a content creator yet. As so many others in this comments section (and others!) have already said - if you break canon, it's just fanfiction, no matter who legally owns the film rights.

To me, someone writing a canon-busting work about my favorite characters is basically kidnapping them and forcing them to work as slave labor. It feels like a criminal act.

These people are the perfect example of a poser and fake fan. The pretend to like things in the hopes the can influence the distance of a thing. It all about getting so power over it. Even if it's just a little bit of influence.

"Really dgaf what's canon or not. Just give me more Tolkien universe stuff plz." Soo ... by the same logic I can take this old Nissan, paint a snake on the hood and now it's a Dodge Viper? Canon is what makes a story recognizable and give it identity. It's the creator's voice, vision and way of communicating brought into the real world, giving it a distinct "flavor." Without canon you're essentially pulling stuff out of your behind, and there's a very real risk that the things that made the original unique and appealing is lost in the process.

@queenberuthiel5469

4 ай бұрын

Ironic because "Tolkien's universe stuff" is THE CANON.😂 They can just say they wanted any generic fantasy stuff that have some Middle Earth flavor/vibe to it LOL

If canon doesn't matter the story doesn't matter.

An excellent point. There is also the question of continuity in cannon. Remember the 'Hyperspace' ramming in 'The last Jedi'? The old Republic was at least 'over a 1,000 generations' old according to Obi-Wan. An no one has figured this possibility out? Remember, a generation is between 20 and 30 years. That makes the old Republic 20,000 to 30,000 years old and is not accounting for history before it. All this time people were using the hyperdrive and no one hit on the idea of using it as a weapon? Now one figured out the math? Why I'm riding this point is the following. If canon doesn't matter, every new movie and every new show has to explain it's canon and tell us what is and what is not possible in this universe. In regards to Lord of the Rings, you could ignore what the Wizards like Gandalf and Saruman really were and say that every town has a wizards tower with a wizard residing, this needs to be explained. And as Some Guy here explained, that's not what Tolkien wrote. That's fan fiction. There are already people out there that are confused why some Vampires sparkle in the sun and others burn to a crisp. Because of that any story with vampires in them should explain how vampires exactly work in this universe. How many even remember that vampires could also transform into mist? Bats and wolves? Sure, it's left out because it's cheaper on the budget and allows normal humans to have some chance against vampires. Some chance, not saying it's a big one. Does anyone remember the movie 'Sundown: The Vampire in Retreat' (1989)? No idea if that can be done for real, but they used bullets made of hardened wood so that younger vampires could fight older and more powerful ones. Does that work in this story's universe? or does it have to be a certain amount of wood that has t go through the heart of a vampire. All that has to be established in every story if canon doesn't matter. Someone does not care about canon? Good luck understanding anything written with that mindset. I can hear the wave of deus ex machina's coming to give surprise and/or twist endings.

@troffle

3 ай бұрын

othankgods finally someone else got that critical point about hyperspace ramming. The generation calculation doesn't even have to be done; there are timelines of history of that universe; including the development of hyperspace travel. Plus let's not forget, it's a galaxy frequently at war and if they had a weapon that could suddenly devastate capital ships SO INCREDIBLY EASILY... ... thank you so very much.

Short, sweet and spot on.

I feel this is true for translated work as well. I just finished Väinö Linna’s book “Tuntematon sotilas” but since I don’t speak Finnish, I read the English translation. What struck me upon reading the translator’s note is how faithfully he tried to carry over Linna’s intended vision, especially in the way he tried to best convey the characters’ different Finnish dialects in English. Regardless of whether he succeeded at this definitely not easy task, I couldn’t help but think that I’ll never read Tuntematon sotilas the way Linna intended it to be unless I read the original Finnish version.

It's like grilling road kill and calling it steak.

I don't expect much more from someone called "Holden Manswood".

Excellent take! Thanks for putting this out there!

Good to see you uploading again. Keep 'em coming!

Great to see/hear you again. I appreciate your videos and in this case I agree.

Beautifully said!

If you think that's bad, look at those poor Wheel of Time fans.

@anonymouslyopinionated656

4 ай бұрын

How about those of us who're both. :/

It does, but in my experience, people will give you a lot of leeway as long as you make it entertaining.

I feel like the Scott pilgrim anime would be better received if they marketed it as a new spin from the start . it was a good spin , but people tuned in expecting the Comics version of the story and got a third version that expects you to know or at least be familiar with the comics version , that was not as widely known as the movie .

Yay your back and once again another great video fellow Chicagoian

Well said!

Canon only matters if you care about the work in question in more than a superficial manner.

glad i caught this super early

When Branden Sanderson took on the mantle of finishing the Wheel of Time series, you noticed the differences in writing styles if only subtle. And this was even with Robert Jordan’s own wife and editor staying on and carefully selecting him. There were subtle differences, others less subtle. … One example really stood out: the chapters became shorter, the pace quicker. Now I haven’t dug deep into interviews and such, but I imagine this was Jordan’s idea of picking up the pace to work towards the grand finale. And it worked I really enjoyed it. However: would the books have been the same if Jordan himself had finished them. Of course not. It would have been close, I’m sure, but not the same. And all credit to Sanderson and McDougal (his wife), this is not about criticism. It was simply different. … Would The Lord of the Rings have been the same if his son Christopher had been forced the finish it? I don’t know. Even with the depth of Tolkien’s writing, planning ahead, drafts, redrafts… … Anyway, enter the hot mess that is Amazon: If the story can’t be the same under a different writer, how lovingly and tenderly they treat the lore, imagine what happens if the lore is hijacked by a few young punks who actually think they know better. And that comment… “Tolkien Universe,” seriously? It’s not Marvel.

It’s whatever works for their own head cannon

I feel like in the case Scott Pilgrim Takes Off, it's weird because it has marketing saying it's an adaptation, and it is, but it also works as a sequel to the original work (the movie also works as a substitute if you haven't read the comics), kind of like a NG+. If you have no horse in the race of having neither experienced the original comics nor the movie which was adapted from the comics, then a chunk of stuff in the 8 episode adaptation will be lost on the viewer, because Takes Off assumes you have some knowledge of how the "proper canon" is supposed to go and addresses a couple of those elements in the story.

You know what is worse than that. The creators just giving in.

100% agree with you, JSG. Thx for the video!

It's a battle against those who will never be satisfied and choose to drink the sand for the sake of modernity. There is no satiation for the foolish and apathetic.

So bascailly siperman 2099 cannon line won't work here.

It’s only Star Wars canon if it was approved by George Lucas. Disney Star Wars is just bad fan fiction.

4:29, very drastically with the latter

Personally, I always thought the idea of “create a spinoff of another author’s work” is so insulting. Imagine you dedicate your life to create a masterpiece in writing, something revered as truly great. Then I show up after you passed away and go “I’m going to copy all your characters and settings to attract as many buyers as I can, but I’m going to write my own plot so that JUST technically it’s considered my work and I can make profit off it”. Personally, I feel like that is such a slap in the face to Tolkien. Like, how dare writers even think they should even try to attach their names to his work.

If it's not cannon, it's not Tolkien's universe....

At some point, and RoP passed this line long ago, it ceases to be canon.

Thank you!

Yes, yes it does.

Of course they dont care about canon, I can promise you they're firm believers of Death of The Author.

I still feel llike this whole show is a joke and Amazon will tell us by the end of this season or whenever there done flopping. I refuse to belive its possible to make a show this bad with that high of a budget.

Tolkien's work=Canon If you don't care whether or not it's canon, there are free fanfictions online. It's the same for every author's work and not just Tolkien's work.

I once read on rop Twitter (x but most of us still call it Twitter) that "lore" and "canon" are just "gamer words." As in gamers made up the words. To which I replied: "No, it's not. Tolkien made Feanor a LORE MASTER. If you read the books, you'd know this." I still haven't received a response to date and this was about really January. I'm not waiting for one. I'm just saying that it's a good thing they haven't said anything back because they know they're wrong. They don't want to read. They don't care about lore and canon. They just want their slop, and rarely will they keep quiet when you correct them.

@troffle

3 ай бұрын

... for unconnected reasons, I have deliberately taken a number of grocery-grade over-the-counter herbal sedatives like Kava, St. John's Wort and Valerian. Reading the words of your first sentence are seriously threatening to break through all those sedatives to make me wish I owned a chainsaw and lived in the most-likely-other-hemisphere country where such people live. I'm so sorry you went through that and I might just go have an extra dose now.

If the writers don’t care about what’s canon, then why should the audience care?

JSG. Love your vids but this spotty upload schedule is killing me. You good my man?

I don't get the whole not respecting the original and being ok with however things get handled. Me(I DM) and my friends play D&D Forgotten Realms. So that the world world feels more alive and independent of the players, we follow cannon events as they happens in the novels or get posted on the timeline board. So at one point, the worlds timeline gets updated, in between two games, and. The city where they were taking a break... gets mauled by a dragon. Welp, that weeks game was a whole lot of panic. All this to say, if you don't respect, and R.E.S.P.E.C.T. is everything, Areta Franklin has a whole song about it, whatever setting you say you like, are fan of or whatever: There's decorum to remain mindful of people! The spirit of the of the work needs to remain the same as you don't "adapt the work", you adapt TO the work.

If they don't care about canon, then they just like the setting and don't care what happens in it. Really weird but you see it quite a bit nowadays

The thing about Tolkien's Middle Earth is that there is thousands upon thousands of years of timeline that you could have quite a bit of freedom to make your fanfic without damaging any canon. There are millions of potential characters that have never been mentioned by Tolkien. The problem is nobody is willing to work with those boundaries. They want to dick with lore and events we know and use characters we're familiar with to do it.

Can´t agree more; admittedly, what is and what is not canon in Tolkien´s legendarium is debatable. To me, unfinished stories like "Aldarion and Erendis" are not canon since they were discareded by the professor and it is unclear what Tolkien had in mind for them. Smae is true for much of his other notes. However, the finished works are canon and should be treated with the appropriate respect.

It's not even fan fiction, fan fiction (bad and good) comes from genuine love for the world it derives it from ... Rings of power is corporate fiction. Designed solely to profit from the brand.