Great advice. Going with the 2-stage. Thanks for posting!

Very helpful. Thanks for explaining this. I liked/subscribed.

Hello Steve. Ive been trying to gather as much info I can on how to repair my dads inground pool. I have read much on your website and watched most of your videos. Thank you for all the info you have provided. He had a liner failure over the winter where the water drained out to the shallow end bottom. The water seems to have froze and broke up the surface of the vermiculite bottom and I am now researching how to refinish the bottom and patch other damaged parts too. This a huge mountain lake style pool and I am in charge of the whole bottom repair and liner installation project due to all other installers booked well through the year and this is a cysis that needs to be dealt with right away. My question is what should I use to fill in holes and divets and basically resurface the whole shallow end bottom that would be the easiest and smooth, should I use morter or stick with the vermiculite recipe?

We pour a 3,500 PSI Fibermesh reinforced concrete bottom.2-3 slump in the hopper, and we wet it up to a 5-6 slump for the shallow end.We pump it in place,screed the cement then trowel it smooth.For groundwater situations we install a hydrostatic relief valve in one of the two main drains.Bulletproof pool bottom, and you have to have skilled concrete finishers on the job.

We are in the research phase of replacing our pool liner. There are zero installers to be found in our area. Therefore we will have to DIY it. My question today is regarding the prep work needed to repair the floor prior to installing the liner. I recall our builder saying he used pool krete . Is this the same as vermiculite? Will this product need to be shielded from rain. It is likely we will be doing the repairs to the floor, replacing gaskets, etc.. then on a different weekend, be dropping the liner in place. Your videos have been very helpful in the research .

I am very interested in insulating the bottom and cove portion of an in ground vinyl liner pool. I thought may be just sand then 2” XPS board. Or perhaps the XPS then put vermiculite/cement over it. Or just XPS on ground and cove. What do you think about insulating bottom of pools in this fashion?

should I consider placing a foam pad under my inground vinyl pool liner?

Thanks, can vermiculite be used in a Radiant above-ground pool that has been halfway buried in the ground?

Hello, I would like to paint my in-ground pool, right now pool covered with the very old pool liner, my plan is to remove it out and instead of putting new liner just paint the concrete, my question is if my pool has the liner does it mean the floor is ground ??? i see my walls are cement but because of liner I don’t see the floor and I’w wondering it might be ground but no concrete, I have no pool experience at all, i bought house with the pool which been built back in 1994, hopefully you’ll answer, Thanks 🙏

Do you have a specific mortar you recommend using?

Hello, I just removed my liner and looks to be vermiculite about 1.5" as it's light weight compared to cement. I want to fix it before liner. Should I add vermiculite or can I use Portland cement over it? Doesn't look to be a 2 stage original pour though.

Very informative. I've been chasing this info for weeks. Would you recommend a sand bottom pool for a pool that's probably not getting a lot of action? I have a diving pool that I'm converting to a 5ft pool. The plan was to fill with grade 8 gravel then pool sand then liner. Thoughts?

@Swimmingpoolsteve

Жыл бұрын

It will look like the surface of the moon when you turn the pool light on at night. It will feel lumpy and low quality under your feet, especially in the shallow end. But it will work and will protect the liner sufficiently to hold water. If it is my pool I am installing a grout (mortar) floor at minimum. Vermiculite concrete is not needed. It's an upgrade consideration but grout bottom vinyl pools outnumber all other floor types.

Can you get vermiculite sent in a truck with a pump? Mixing poolkrete bag by bag for a 20x40 pool base sounds like a nightmare.

Can a grout floor with 3/4 clear base be only a few inches thick ?

I am changing my liner in a few weeks. I have a few imperfections in the grout base that I would like to fix/ re-skim. Any suggestions?

@Swimmingpoolsteve

4 жыл бұрын

It is standard to patch and smooth a grout bottom before the new liner goes in. DO NOT use a product called "patch" or "fabric patch" or anything with patch in the name as these have a polymer added that reacts with vinyl and they will grow to giant speed bump sized mounds in your pool from calcium growth. You want something simple like 3 parts sharp sand and one part regular portland cement. Clean and dampen hole before adding the new layer. You can use a bonding slurry also to help is bond better: kzread.info/dash/bejne/d6CCtsqRptewYZs.html and after the patch dries you need to scrape it to ensure there are no raised or sharp spots. Skimming the whole floor is rarely done. The floor does not need to look good under a liner, it just needs to not damage the liner.

@jasoncurry1012

4 жыл бұрын

@@Swimmingpoolsteve thanks. I enjoy your channel.

@jasondavies3736

3 жыл бұрын

@@Swimmingpoolsteve any solution if that does occur? Older liner and there are a few huge mounts under the liner. Is that something that can be remedied somewhat easily?

@Swimmingpoolsteve

3 жыл бұрын

@@jasondavies3736 Huge mounds that are growing over time are an indication the floor was patched with incorrect materials. Usually this is a vinyl/polymer modified pre-mix product that was used for patching and there is a chemical reaction happening resulting in large calcium like growths that look like speed bumps. Remove and replace these if that is what is happening to your pool...which is lots of patches or often a new floor being needed. Do not use concrete products that contain the word patch. Fabric patch, floor patch...these are the ones I have seen do this.

@thomascraven249

3 жыл бұрын

Do you have a specific mortar you would recommend?

Is there a way that we can transfer our pool from a vinyl liner pool to a concrete one that can be painted? Dogs love the pool and we have gone through too many liners. Do you know what cost difference might be?

@courtneyschultz4361

4 жыл бұрын

Did you get an answer ? I would also like to go this

Question would a sand bottom wear a liner like a grouted bottom would ?

@Swimmingpoolsteve

4 жыл бұрын

No, for the most part it will not. There is enough give in the sand that it does not tend to wear the liner.

could you use 2 inch blue foam on a sand floor?

I now have my liner out. It's been out for about a week, and we are waiting for our liner to be made and shipped to us.The pool floor actually looks really good!! However, there is some ground water weaping at a few of the seams of the polymer walls where the floor meet... , and some sand from behind the wall too. Not a lot , of water, but some. My questions are 1) should we repair these weaping areas? , or not be concerned? 2) if I am going to repair this, with what product? I see a product called Hydracrete that works on wet/weaping areas, but I don't know if it is too rough for the underside of the liner.? Or should I use pool crete? If yes to the pool crete will it bond well? I saw the video on making old concrete bond with new concrete-- It said to Clean the area well, acid wash, then make a slurry of portland cement, water and elmers glue-- then paint it on, then apply the new concrete( Or pool crete is my question?) I don't want to mess up what looks like a really decent pool floor, but I don't want to regret repairing the leaky areas either. And just FYI, we do have a sump pump in an underground barrel with holes in it to pump out ground water, and this worked well to keep out ground water from collecting under our liner. I'm open to any and all suggestions!! Thank you!!

@Swimmingpoolsteve

4 жыл бұрын

VERY IMPORTANT - Sorry I missed your question but for others with similar problems it is totally normal for a vinyl liner pool to have water coming in through cracks and under the walls. A little or a lot depends on where you live and the ground water tables around your pool. It is not really good, and can definitely cause problems in some pools. Usually I would have a small pump running the entire time the pool is empty, and all water that accumulates will be sent far away from the pool area with the pump. This works to temporarily lower the water table around the pool which can make installation of the new liner easier. The important point - when you patch a vinyl liner pool you should use whatever the existing floor is. Sand with sand, grout with grout and verm with verm. When you buy patching compounds and dry mixes from the hardware store there are additives in there that sometimes are a problem with vinyl liner pools. Specifically anything labelled as "patch". Anything with the word patch in the name I am very wary of. There is a water stop cement that is wet to set in 60 seconds which seems to work, but the one that is a 5 minute wet to set, often called patch, has polymers that will react with the vinyl in your liner and grow giant speed bumps of crystalline growth that look like tumors under the liner. Vinyl pools can leak water under the liner - do not try to stop it. When you have a grout bottom, just use 3 parts sand to one part portland cement for your repair mix and this way you will not have any risk of reaction with your vinyl.

Steven what are you thinking about the sand hardener bottom pools

@Swimmingpoolsteve

4 жыл бұрын

Back in my day we just sprayed the sand with hairspray or some guys would do like a 12-1 sand mix that was just strong enough to tiptoe across it. I am unfamiliar with sand hardner pools....link? But unless they are hardening the sand with, you know, portland cement, then I am probably going to say go with a grout bottom at minimum or a vermiculite bottom if you have cash to spend. Sand bottom is okay, mostly, but is for above grounds and super budget inground installations. If you are going to do extra to the sand, just pop for grout bottom. It a million times easier to work on, and is only rough on the pool if the floor is not finished well.

@carlosmoreno9103

4 жыл бұрын

Swimming Pool Steve a thousand thank you to have the time and repli and share your profesional knowledge. At this point the e ojo my is really bad I’m trying to a quick fix for maybe 3-5 year hope the sand can handle. Thank you so so much

Vermiculite sucks bro. As a vinyl liner installer that is a horrible option to go with. Needs skim coats most of the time. Doesn’t hold up to groundwater like grout does.

Where do you get vermiculite to buy?

Why not put foam on the mortar bottom like we have on the sides to stop the wear on the liner from the shifting? I'm sure there is a reason.

@Swimmingpoolsteve

4 жыл бұрын

There is a reason. First, very little heat is lost through conduction through the walls and floors. The vast majority of vinyl pools do nothave foam of any kind use. I have installed 10,000 liners up here in Canada, and it gets cold here and we still don't use wall foam. I have used it maybe 1 time ever. Its just not needed as convection only accounts for 5% or less of all heat loss in a pool. So the answer is that foam is just not needed, but more to your question, the floor would be bad because water will pass through the floor and occupy the pace under the liner. This is normal operation for a liner pool, and if there was foam on the ground the first time this happened the foam would shift and bunch up and cause wrinkles with no way to fix them. You could use rigid foam but this would make the floor easier to poke holes in. In total, foam is just not needed in a vinyl pool.

@gabep.1018

4 жыл бұрын

@@Swimmingpoolsteve Thank you for your prompt and helpful reply.

@James-ed5zy

Жыл бұрын

What brand of grout do you recommend.

Can i used sand firt and them vermiculiti and top?????

@Swimmingpoolsteve

4 жыл бұрын

No sand or vermiculite concrete, not both. Verm over sand would be like trying to put cake frosting over a plate of beach sand.

Can you change your pool from vinyl to concrete

@Swimmingpoolsteve

4 ай бұрын

You can but it is more work than people think it will be. Here is a breakdown of a vinyl pool I converted to a concrete pool and what it took to do it: www.swimmingpoolsteve.com/pages/vinyl-concrete.html

So what about a grout pool floor and then putting padding on top of that then your liner?

@Swimmingpoolsteve

2 жыл бұрын

That would be a bad idea. Water passes through the floor of a vinyl pool and the liner shifts around. If you have padding or something it will float up and wrinkle under the liner. Better to just put a smooth bottom finish on the grout. When troweled well that is all you need to do to protect the liner.

@israelclayman4489

2 жыл бұрын

@@Swimmingpoolsteve well that makes sense appreciate you sharing all your knowledge with us can't wait to show you the finished pool that you definitely help me design and build

Hi Steve, what would you use to make the pool shallower?

@Swimmingpoolsteve

3 жыл бұрын

Stilts? Just kidding. This is more complicated than a youtube answer can get since I don't know anything about your pool. But usually concrete is used to make pools shallower for concrete pools as part of a major overhaul renovation

@Swimmingpoolsteve

3 жыл бұрын

I see I missed this is a vinyl pool video so ypu have vinyl most likely. Sand is one option. Then have a sand bottom, or pour a new hard bottom over the compacted sand.

@wilsonelias1514

3 жыл бұрын

@@Swimmingpoolsteve Thank you Steve. In your opinion who make the aluminum top mounted tracts. thanks

So in Other words vermiculite is foam concrete.

Sand is a horrible idea!!!! It’s not even an option don’t even consider it!

@Swimmingpoolsteve

5 жыл бұрын

I could not agree more. The days of sand bottom pools are almost over, at least in the area that I work. It used to be the cheapest option...I mean it still is but most people are either grout (mortar) or vermiculite two stage floors now. Vastly superior to sand floors. Above grounds are still OK for sand but even still a verm floor, or even a compacted peat moss floor is better than sand.

@bugajk25

5 жыл бұрын

@@Swimmingpoolsteve agreed

@wirescale

4 жыл бұрын

I’m located here in Qc Canada as well, is sand a bad option for semi inground wooden pool and why exactly !?