I remember years ago when I was doing club racing I bought a pair of Nordica Dobermann GS Race skis. The reviews had pros and cons. Pros: “This is a full blown race ski”. Cons: “This is a full blown race ski”. And boy they were right. I remember the very time I went to race on them… out of the 3rd gate… totally wrecked…. You had to be on your game ALL THE TIME with those skis… and let’s be honest… I was a guy who was a recreational skier doing club racing… who had done pretty well… but these skis were way out of my league. I stuck with them and learned to ski them…. But if I didn’t stay totally focused for the entire run… they bite you HARD… You know… like a Dobermann. Haha

FIS SL skis are much different than FIS GS skis, as far as the level of skier required. Most decent skiers, even intermediates, can actually ski a FIS 165 cm SL ski. With a 12-13m radius, the turn arc is so tight that you do not need to really bend the ski. Just tip in a bit...and it is turning like crazy. This makes them extremely versatile. When I hopped on a pair of Rossi Hero 165 FIS SL skis....I seriously wondered if they were really race skis. They were so balanced and easy to ski. But then when I laid them over, I saw that in fact they can grip/rip. They literally can do it all, at least on piste. A FIS GS ski (30m+) is a completely different beast. The long radius requires very high level technique to get the turn started as you build speed. Also, to get the ski to bend and turn properly you have to get up to at least 35 mph, and be able to lay the ski over to at least 45 degrees. There are not many people that can do this reliably enough to ski safe on a public resort. I would only recommend a 30m ski to a true expert or ex racer. Even most Masters races choose a 24-27m ski...not a full 30m ski.

@simonhahn3672

3 ай бұрын

Absolutely dead on. I am a very good recreational skier and have a Fischer sl wc and a atomic junior gs with a radius of 24m. The sl ski is so much easier to ski compared to the gs, it's mind blowing. Proper gs skis needs so much more precision, speed and discipline to turn well whereas the sl ski is still very good fun even if you're not going all out and focusing up. I can't even imagine what it's like to ski a wc gs with 30m radius.

@waki_resigns

3 ай бұрын

I guess I am kind of an intermediate skier since I only recently learned what it means to be on the edge and corner without throwing too much snow around. I felt exactly what you describe when skiing an "all mountain" Volkl Kendo 88. The feeling of getting on the edge on manchester was amazing but ski felt dead without really pushing it hard and when getting on hard patches, not pushing and trying to just cruise was straight forward painful as the ski would bounce and skip on the edge. I was quite unhappy wth this rental until later evening when the slope got quite worn out and cushioning of the snow allowed for more relaxed ride. But I can imagine that a GS doesn't really get better with moguls, on the contrary, it must get worse and worse through the day. A guy at the rental place said it is indeed the case and they don't carry proper GS skis and would never recommend them to any beginner.

@waki_resigns

3 ай бұрын

I tried Volkl RTiger SC/RC and was amazed by them. Is classic SL (not Master nor FIS) much stiffer? After all SC doesn't have full metal plate, just the frame as far as I understood

@simonhahn3672

3 ай бұрын

@@waki_resigns The feeling when you are on the edge and it fells like you are on rails ist the best feelings in skiing in my opinion, so it's nice that you got to experience that. Regarding your statement about gs skis getting worse through the day I can absolutely agree. Ideally i would start the day on my gs skis when the slopes are still empty and hard in the morning and then switch to a more versatile ski later in the day, but I don't like the hassle of bringing two skis. And gs skis are surprisingly fun to drift/steer and even short turn as well if you have good technique as their narrow build makes them super nice to put on edge. But as you said, not beginner friendly, which is why the most advanced ski I find in rentals in Europe is usually something like a atomic redster g9 consumer version.

@simonhahn3672

3 ай бұрын

@@waki_resigns I don't know specifically how voelkl does it, but most brands have two sl-type skis in their race(-oriented) segment: One SC and one SL. The SL is either the Fis approved slalom ski or very close to it. The SC is the consumer version of the SL ski and usually very popular among sportive on piste skiers. They both have similar radius and usually look very similar but are two completely different skis. The main difference is the higher stiffness and more direct/aggressive nature of the sl. As far as I know, specific master slalom skis aren't really a thing. So if you tried the voelkl sc, it was the consumer ski closest to the worldcup version. The sl only gives benefits to people who have very good technique and are willing to accept the more exhausting/demanding experience.

A good and brief explanation, right to the point, thanks.

I have an older (2012/13 I believe) Volkl FIS GS women's ski (188) and I love it. It reminds me a little of my old P9 SLs. It's not the most forgiving ski and tends to wear me out pretty quickly, but it always feels like it wants more out of me. It definitely has more performance potential than I have ability.

Good info. I have 190cm Fischer GS race skis & they are great for hard pack & boilerplate groomers. Heavy, no chatter, very stable, & no real speed limit; only for expert skiers on specific terrain.

Good stuff, as always mate!

I have FIS cut skis 165cm yet the retail version. They are so much more forgiving, and my old knees don't complain. Yet in no way if you're going fast on the right snow will they come close to a true FIS ski. You are spot on in this video.

Nooo, don't spread awareness! I've been racing on mostly fis skis bought by rich idiots who sold them soon after half price... am I supposed to buy them full price now!? 🤣

@paullorenz6389

Жыл бұрын

Haha sorry

Great topic and presentation.

Nice explanation! keep it up Paul

There is great joy in being able to ski all conditions on a mountain on one pair of skis.

Great video Paul as always. Guy

Hi, just a small comment. I'm also lucky enough to have proper FIS slalom skis and "top of the line" commercial skis. You got most of the differences. Let me add few more. FIS skis have much more acceleration out of the turn, which you need to anticipate and correctly use for next turn. If you don't, you might do a somersault. ;) FIS skis need much more pressure on the edge in turn, to make them "work" as intended. So skier must be in good physical condition , for whole day of skiing. FIS skis are usually more than 50% heavier, when you carry them around. To get most of FIS skis , your ski boots needs to have stiffness at least 120, and above.

@andrzejb3101

2 ай бұрын

I remember when I demoed the first time FIS SL ski. The acceleration out of the turn was amazing. It is like switching from a mountain bike to a racing bike. A hammer and a scalpel.

Great explanation!

nice one mate!

Alway enjoy your videos. I have learned a lot from you. Thank You Paul.

@paullorenz6389

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you. Glad the videos have helped :)

Very informative. Jus want I was looking for before buying my Racetiger SLs. Thanks!

@paullorenz6389

3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was useful, thanks for the comment

if you’ve never skied FIS GS or SL skis your missing out

@nils5861

3 жыл бұрын

90% of the people with SL skis dont even use the full potential of the ski

@fourlakes

3 жыл бұрын

They are amazing, but their use is limited. You want the ski to perform, you better as well and be prepared to work to make the ski work.

@gx1400sc

3 жыл бұрын

Totally agree, ones pro FIS ski, never go back, they seldom let you down... . I have two pairs of older Atomic hand made GS skies incredible... fastest ski ever, but fragile, like a F1 engine. But now when I don't train so much, I ski with Elan FIS SL, GS so much fun with these on icy sloapes.

@bobsnabby2298

3 жыл бұрын

If you need to go fast and get that 0.1second gap and win, go for the best skis. Else, c'mon, public slopes are not a race track.

@simonorr594

3 жыл бұрын

Also, some brands have stiffer FIS skis. I just switched from Blizzard/Nordica to Atomic, and Atomic's FIS ski is a freakin' beast - way stiffer. I am totally shagged out by the end of the day skiing this - especially if I am skiing the trainees' courses on ice. Maybe you can get really stiff Blizzards if you are on the national team, but I can't. Volkl FIS skis are made from ash rather than beech - and ash is a tougher wood. Plus it has the piston plate. Anyway, you need to go to the gym and get the best disco tits in the West Village to ski FIS Atomics!

Awesome ,.easy examples !!

Great chat bro, good message, look forward to skiing with you when we can. 👊🏾👊🏾

@paullorenz6389

3 жыл бұрын

Me too buddy. What are you up to over the summer?

@harrymcfadden

3 жыл бұрын

Chilling in Christchurch with the family and hoping to ski in Europe this spring. Hope you are well bro

@paullorenz6389

3 жыл бұрын

@@harrymcfadden thanks bud. All the best. Enjoy the summer mate

You ski just like Reilly, purrfectly! Good stuff,have a great Turkey day. God Bless.

Have a pair of Head e-SL RD slalom skis. Absolutely a blast on everything I've run them on so far - ice, soft groomers, granular groomers, wet slush, but no deep powder. I would recommend this ski to every expert skier - very predictable, and respond instantly to your inputs.

@jules4927

Жыл бұрын

what will be your advice as i have al realdy some 95 stormrider and QST blank i want to go on sl fis head 168 as my slope ski to used it exclusively on slope as i have other set to do the others things ( i am 20 , i'm used to ski on slalom ski 176 cm height and 77 kg of weight and ski on ds dalbelllo factory 130 of flex ) ? So for you it's a good choice ?

Nice video. Would be nice if you could discuss radius requirements for the side cut of World Cup versus regular skis. This seems to be something that’s more dramatic with GS skis.

@juniorjohnson9509

2 жыл бұрын

Side cut radius is mandated by the FIS for all racing skis, with the radiuses actually larger than they were a decade or so ago. Don't let the 12m radius of a decent recreational ski make you think that they will respond the same as a 12 meter slalom ski - the difference in torsional stiffness will make the recreational ski wash out way earlier.

Thanks excellent information ℹ️

As on old guy who grew up on 80's planks, I find my FIS GS skis great - as long as I'm just doing groomers. I prefer the extra stiffness. And, the ride is just so gentle and smooth - some weird combination of a Cadillac and a Ferrari. But I always bring my second pair for mid day switch overs.

Very good explanation indeed...

@paullorenz6389

Жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it

Because I like your skiing style, I bought the latest SL skis.tks

@paullorenz6389

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks and I hope you like them :)

The flex and torsional rigidity of the WC ski in the shape of the recreational ski. And, make it short, 155cm, even for a big guy. That's what I thought when demo'ing Stoeckli's slalom skis anyway. Then again, I'm a huge fan of RTC's classic carvers and they are short, 128cm to 168cm, every 10cm, and the 68'er feels like a 210.

I have that 170 'retail' version. The 13.4-meter radius, with the 127_68_103 profile, and the 'retail' Volkl stiffness, versus 'FIS' stiffness, makes it frankly one of the very best overall frontside skies you can buy if you ski in the East of North America. The combo of that Volkl stiffness, but with a 13.4 radius, allows you to really open up the ski to GS turns when desired, it also slams through the crud amazingly well given the ski's mass and 127 front profile, and at the same time at 68 underfoot it's very fast to initiate turns - I love the ski - it's my frontside daily.

@paullorenz6389

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment, it’s a great ski!

@Mr15951595159

3 жыл бұрын

Hello )) Can you tell me if the WC version of skis is much tougher than the regular slalom version ? I am more inclined to purchase regular skis, but only with a sports platform ( as on the WC version)

@wallstreetoneil

3 жыл бұрын

@@Mr15951595159 There is the 'regular' retail version that DOESN'T come with the race plate, has the Marker RMotion2 GW binding - with 2 layers of metal, Beech 70%/ Poplar 30% and is 68 underfoot (you can get this in a 170 - the others you cannot). There is the SL 'R' version with 3 layers of metal, same Beech/Poplar, but now 65 underfoot and with the race-plate instead of the Marker RMotion binding. The additional layer of metal will make it stiffer for sure, not crazy different - but the profile at 113-65-98 will feel faster edge to edge and it is slightly heavier even though it is narrower because of the metal. Then there is the SL R 'WC' version (you might not be able to source this) that uses harder wood Ash 50% / Poplar 50% and race a different base (not really important from an everyday ski perspective). Finally, both the R & the R WC versions are listed as full camber (i.e. no rocker) so the effective edge and grip will be stronger - they both also come with more aggressive edge and base angles from the factor as a base setup. If you are a good skier, then all of these skis will be skiable - and in fact, if you ski on really icy conditions you could even argue that having that 3rd layer of metal with longer effective edge would be preferable - but you would have to be confident skier for sure. These types of skies don't bother me as I grew up as a hockey player and I'm actually more comfortable with very very edge fast skies because I like to be on an edge - that's just how my brain works - but for the vast, vast majority of skiers, the 'retail' version of the Volkl Racetiger SL is already too much ski with its weight and stiffness - but for me, the 170 available length, longer turn radius, and wider front tip profile make it a fantastic ski for where I ski - often in hard icy conditions

@Mr15951595159

3 жыл бұрын

@@wallstreetoneil Thank you for your comprehensive answer ))) But you don't quite understand me correctly. I'm interested in a regular model with a sports platform. Not SLR and not the SL R WC version. Here is a link to it on the official website of the company www.voelkl.com/en/products/skis/racing/racetiger-sl-pro/

@wallstreetoneil

3 жыл бұрын

Ok - got it - i've seen that one before - it is still the 'retail' version in terms of profile shape and wood/metal construction perspective so it should very much ski like that. I do like the fact that the factory has put it through a different line to put on the base and side angles - this should hopefully mean that on average the finish is slightly better - but then again you never know. The difference between a 0.7 base angle and 1.0 (regular) isn't that much, but it is FAR FAR preferable to start with this more aggressive angle, and then decide later it is too much and then take some more off to 0.8 or 1.0 so that you don't have to destroy the base - and if you are a good skier then I would say 0.7 base is the way to go - but be honest with yourself about your ability because the ski will be faster to react (I like this myself, but again I played hockey all my life and I like very sharp skates). The side edge angle for me isn't that important because you are not going to notice the difference between 2.4 on this ski versus the regular 2.0 - and I personally ski on a 3.0 all the time - what really matters with side edge angles in my experience is how you like to blend the edge's sharpness at the tip and tail of the ski - for real racers there is no blending because they need edge - for casual skiers, almost always some softening of the edge helps because you want to be able to slide the ski when you need to - racers don't do this so that's a big difference - in no way would 2.4 side edge prevent me from buying it it would actually make me buy it more but remember when you tune them that this is the angle on the ski because your average shop WILL NOT do this - you will have to tell them to do it and TRUST them that they will actually do it - most won't and will just run it through a 2.0 anlge that their machine is defulated to - either bring it to a raceshop or do it yourself (that's what I do). In terms of the race plate versus the Marker RMotion 2 binding. The RMotion 2 binding comes in both a 12 & 16 DIN version - the vast majority being the 12 version - so if you happen to want to ski above 12 Din - then having to buy the 16 DIN Marker XComp will allow you to do so - but I personally never ski above 8 DIN as I've had a knee injury and I want the ski to release. So the question comes down to will the 10mm Market WC Race Plate change the feel or performance of the ski in a noticeable way, over the RMotion2 system, if the underlying ski is still the same (i.e. 2 layers of Metal vs 3, same wood construction and ski shape profile)? I don't really think so, maybe a tiny bit, but either way, it's an excellent ski. The next level of performance will require more metal and ski stiffness - and then 5-degree edge angles to ski on ice - but I wouldn't recommend that unless you plan on going Masters Ski Racing and really committing to lots of training - but if that's what you want then absolutely go for it. The other skis I would look at are the new 2021 Fischer RC4 - I demoed the 170 GS ski and the 170 CT - the CT being the best ski I've ever skied in my life

I think this really makes sense for quicker, shorter turns in most conditions and it really is easier on my knees, for this, I have Rossi hero TIs and they are grand, but I still absolutely love my Fischer FIS GS skis for bigger turns on hard snow, I'm an old racer and the precision is really nice to have. Also, the hard snow part, I still enjoy being able to set an edge and know that the ski will not blow out. I suppose when I really get old, they will be too much, but boy oh boy, when the conditions are right, they are a blast.

@juniorjohnson9509

2 жыл бұрын

At 68 YO now, I have found that my full-FIS Head e-SL RD slalom skis are actually easier on my legs than my Rossi EXP88's - one of the top rated all-mountain skis available. The heads, while heavier, respond very predictably, are better on ice, came turn way sharper when necessary, and are just plain ol' lots of fun. Head does make a "recreational" version of this ski, but I don't know why they bother - the full FIS ski I believe would be way more satisfying for almost everybody.

Nice explanation. There needs to be a variant in the graphics by Volkl

Very useful!

@GorskiNunavut

3 жыл бұрын

Напред,напред Партизан! Партизане олео, оле! 😀

Awesome info! Thanks! Three minutes of pure data.. I had thought about bumping up to a WC ski (Sorry Volkl, but I'm skiing Stoklis) and the point about the retail skis maintaining the standard for performance really hit home.. Great vid!

@gpaolino

3 жыл бұрын

Because at 2 in the afternoon after a couple of beers with lunch even god doesn't want a super stiff torsion ski!

@paullorenz6389

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks and I’m glad the information helped

100kg, went for a 165 redster fis SL 29/25, so a softer one, but man, it's like skiing on rails... The first day with it was bit of a pain in the ass though... in the afternoon I had to lie down on the piste several times and stretch to be able to make it back home🤣 It's a special thing to ski these weapons, if you feel young you can give them a go, but maybe you won't enjoy the afternoons (getting tired, piste getting bumpy...) as much, but on icy slopes you will feel like a king, it's very interesting, that your worries go from being afraid of sliding out to being afraid of hurting yaself because of the insane amount of grip /if the edges are well tuned..., mine were, bought it from a racer... That was another level.../ Oh, and don't forget the FLEX factor of the assymetrical tip 😁🤙

@devonmerrick1111

2 жыл бұрын

you all prolly dont care at all but does anyone know of a way to log back into an Instagram account? I somehow forgot the account password. I would appreciate any help you can give me

@coltenxavier7601

2 жыл бұрын

@Devon Merrick instablaster :)

@coltenxavier7601

2 жыл бұрын

@Devon Merrick Happy to help =)

I have the 2018 Vokl recreational sl racetiger in a 160 cm. It's a really fun ski and for a 160 cm it's still not too bad on the ice. I did demo the Vokl pro sl racetiger 165 cm with the race plate. The pro is allot more stiffer and I felt at my 60 years of age that the non pro would be the best option. I love the look of the SL models you have shown there (I believe they are last yr graphics). I would love to have that yr model in the recreational at 165. I wonder how much difference there would be between the one I have at 160 cm and the 165 cm both recreational SL.

@paullorenz6389

3 жыл бұрын

Yes it’s my favourite top sheet so far also. 5cm difference is not that great. You might notice the length in cruddy snow being more difficult. Longer turns on groomed might feel a little more stable. Thanks for the comment.

greetings from Chile

I learn to ski in the early 1990s and while learning I ended up with after demoing a pair of Rossignol 7G race skis despite me being nowhere near racing ability but I just found them to offer far better stability than the recreational slalom skis I had been on plus I saw them as offering the best hold on icey slopes that I struck a lot of. I did not find the transition as difficult as I was told I would and for me it was a case of just getting more aggressive while getting to know them. I did not get a chance to try the FIS or Race Stock model but did end up buying a pair of 205cm VolkI P10 RS skis which the sales guy said were the toughest race skis to ski on the market at the time and I wanted to buy a new challenge not just a new pair of what I had. Sure enough they were different and I can remember falling on my first run on them but I was able to immediately tell from the fall how they were supposed to be skied and after that fall the transition was quite seamless. I did buy a pair of Volkl GS race carvers but found while they were easy to flick around they did not offer the rock solid stability that my old P10 RS skis did. After my long stint with GS race skis I skied for many years on Volkl AC4 and 50 mid fat skis which offered the same stability of my old race skis but with the greater flexibility of being able to go off piste with far better confidence. In recent years I have spent a lot of days on the Line Mothership fat ski which is for me equally at home on piste as it is in powder. Sadly they are not made any more and for skis that are similar in width I just find them too light to feel stable on. Also matched to my skis I wear 130 flex boots for good edge to edge control on ice at the expense of warmth of course but it is worth it to me.

@jameswilkins5938

Жыл бұрын

I bought used Rossignol 7G.s (198 cm) about the same time as you. It was early days in my skiing career and I fondly remember how I liked their stability. I now have 2017 Atomic XT 3.0 (175 cm) which are also very stable but more maneuverable than the old 7G's, obviously. I wish that I was good enough to ski them in crud so I wouldn't need a 2nd pair of skis (Atomic Vantage 90ti) for less than ideal conditions. They're also very heavy to carry. I'm 75 so although I like to ski somewhat aggressively-within reason, I pay close attention to what I'm doing when I push them. "A man's got to know his limitations, Dirty Harry.

Hi Paul. I bought Racetiger SL WC skis. there are 3 options for installing front mounts. My level is advanced )) Where would you recommend putting the front mounts ?

In general.. would you suggest slalom (non-fis) skis to intermediate\advanced skiers evolving in carving ?

So much has changed since my Dynamic VR17 215cm screaming ice carvers from the mid 70s

Your video made my day! May I ask what's the base/side bevel on your fis and non fis SL skis?

@paullorenz6389

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Ben, the bevel depends on the snow more than the ski. When in Australia or Europe when it’s icy I use 87 on the side and .5 on the base. In Japan or on soft I use 88 on the side and .5 or 1 on the base. I hope this helps.

@rzb1101

3 жыл бұрын

@@paullorenz6389 Thanks Paul 👍

월드컵모델 타다가 스키장렌탈샵에서 빌린거 못타요... 무게가 무거워 어깨는 좀 아프지만... 눈을 꾹꾹 눌러주며 카빙하니까 안정감 최고..마치 선수가 된 느낌

fis skis take more power from you ( especially on ice ) . You will be tired faster. Of course they are more precise, but it costs .

@Glupan9

3 жыл бұрын

It's physically more demanding but if you are in a good shape, have a good legs and core strength, you can take full advantage of fis skis which are simply amazing once you get used to them

i really missed your videos hahaha

@paullorenz6389

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Walid

Should a youth racer go with a FIS ski? Most of the time training but some free skiing with friends. 12 years old starting to get serious about racing, new england mountains.

Sadly most skiers certainly out west wont ever own or consider a ski under 80mm and thats a shame given how much fun and how good these retail race and HP carvers are AND how much they improve your skiing technique. I am lucky enough to own a non FIS Volkl Racetiger and its a superb ski choice for an andavnce/expert skier. Its much easier to live with than my FIS slalom and only gives up a touch of edge grip and top end for heaps more fun and ease of use. Paul mentions Slalom which is best for technical skiing work but if you ski larger mountains or want it to be a better all day ski a Deacon 72/76 or even the Racetiger GS are probably better choices for most.

I wish you talked about what is the right height of ski for a person. Thanks.

@nomadnomad9517

3 жыл бұрын

No simple answer.

what will be your advice as i have al realdy some 95 stormrider and QST blank i want to go on sl fis head 168 as my slope ski to used it exclusively on slope as i have other set to do the others things ( i am 20 , i'm used to ski on slalom ski 176 cm height and 77 kg of weight and ski on ds dalbelllo factory 130 of flex )

I have the consumer SL Racetiger, never looked back. Sensational ski if you take your hobby seriously. I skied for arround 23 years (aprox 50/51 weeks) and if you're looking for something to up your game buy the SL Racetiger.

@rzb1101

3 жыл бұрын

do you find the low tip rocker of the non fis racetiger sl makes the turn initiation not as sharp or quick as other full camber sl skis?

@DarthVader-lp4tt

3 жыл бұрын

@@rzb1101 It does but I dont mind it, it makes them a bit more forgiving.

Can you comment on the binding position of the Voelkl SL REC ski. Somehow it is pushed back to the tail of the ski and I find it difficult to ski unless I move it 2-3cm forward of the factory recommended position for my boots.

@rzb1101

3 жыл бұрын

I have the 1718 sl pro, mounted at recommended position, I feel more tail than the tip, especially at low edge angle compared to the fis sl I have, it could be the tip rocker, even though it's a low tip rocker. I think the versatility comes with some cost.

#PaulLorenz - if you are skiing bumps, other than using bump skis, what is your normal preference between slalom, GS and all mountain skis.

@paullorenz6389

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment. A GS ski is good. Something a little longer and thin. The width of all mtn skis makes them a little more difficult.

Just use the Shiro unless you are running gates? I would have thought that both of these skis are a terrible choice unless you are in a situation where you need your pole guards, shin guards and chin guard...

why do wider skis tend not to have track bindings?

Just curious if you’ll use the FIS skis skiing the moguls at the Hokkaido technical competition. Thanks!

@paullorenz6389

3 жыл бұрын

Yes I use the FIS SL for shorts and bumps and the FIS SX ski (r25) for all long turn tasks. I would prefer the flex of the retail SL ski for the moguls. However I like the narrowness for the FIS ski in moguls also.

@icbc228

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@simonorr594

3 жыл бұрын

Why don’t you use a bump ski and softer boots? I hate skiing bumps on my race skis and 130 flex boots. BTW folks, don’t ski a FIS SL ski on soft boots, you’ll tear an ACL or twist something else!

so ive recently borrowed Volkl deacon 74 173cm but i saw they aren't available anymore. Which skiis would you recommend that are similar to that from Volkl?

@paullorenz6389

Жыл бұрын

I’m sorry but I’m not to sure about skis from other brands that compare. I would look for something with similar dimensions.

@Paul - thanks for the great video. I'd love to get your take on something. As a big guy at 6'3" and 270 lbs (1.9m and 123kg for you, right?)... is a FIS SL ski going to "ski like a non FIS for a regular guy"? Or, if you carried a sack with 50kg in it, would the flex of the FIS ski feel "less than FIS" for you? I'm trying to eyeball here. We do about 2-3g in a hard-carved turn. I weigh 1.5-2x what you do. So if the flex is designed for that, it would seem that the range of stiffness difference would be eaten up by my extra kilos, and feel similar? Does that make sense? I'm pushing up against my PSIA Level 3 (or at least, I fancy I am...). At any rate - looking at HEAD WCR E-SL RP vs. FIS SL and Rossignol HERO Athlete FIS SL vs. HERO Elite ST-Ti (R22). The latter I can get a bit longer at 172cm with r14, the rest are 165cm. I've got cruiser skis and GS skis for other days - I want to carve little dynamic turns for the pure joy of it. (not racing). Anything the community can add would be much appreciated.

@juniorjohnson9509

2 жыл бұрын

I have those Head skis - 158's, but I'm only 5'11" and 180 lbs full outfitted, plus 68 years old ( ex-national racer 4+ decades ago - my slalom skis back then were Dynamic VR17's, 207 cm;s!). I love those Heads, as they are very predictable, extremely stable on every condition I have used them on ( blue boiler-plate to soft groomers), and respond to your every input without surprises. At your weight, I'd go for their longest length, but DO NOT get the full racing bottom treatment where they are cambered upwards from the center to the edges on each side of the bottom. I'm not positive, but I'd guess that that treatment makes them change edges easier of full race speeds on glare ice, but also makes them not track in a straight line when flat on the snow - they will wander very unpredictably, and be hard to control. Just don't try deep powder with them - with as narrow as they are underfoot, they will sink like a rock!

@michaelfisher6354

2 жыл бұрын

@@juniorjohnson9509 I loved my VR17s with Salomon 505 bindings. I snapped the tip off in St. Moritz doing minor aerials in my 20's. Those skis were fantastic on ice and/or at high speeds, but not good in deep snow. That was a long time ago and now I just ski for fun and try and look good.

@juniorjohnson9509

2 жыл бұрын

@@michaelfisher6354 Did the same to my last pair of VRs on the Star Trail at Stowe (had Soloman bindings also! :) ) - broke off a tip when I crashed into the backside of one of the moguls. Those skis on ice were like running on railroad tracks. Got clocked at over 70 mph in a national championships downhill when at the last minute I had to use my slalom skis -they were a bit lively, but still quite stable at those speeds! My old legs would be lucky to last even one run with them now.

@michaelfisher6354

2 жыл бұрын

@@juniorjohnson9509 They were amazing on ice. Every ski since then has been second rate. Thanks for the memories....

@juniorjohnson9509

2 жыл бұрын

@@michaelfisher6354: These Head FIS slalom skis are absolutely amazing on ice -the pizo-material dampening makes them grip like crazy, and they are way easier to turn at all speeds than the VRs - big radius carves, tight radius carves, tail-pushing skid turns, jump turns - all make the VRs look like driving a big sedan instead of a race car. Loved those VRs, but this new technology stuff is a giant leap forward. Just got back from a couple days at Sugarloaf in Maine, and managed to get my old legs and body (I'm way too close to 70 now!) to risk a run on a total-ice double diamond (way too steep for the groomers!), and they performed flawlessly. My biggest problem with these skis is resisting the temptation to push the hell out of them and fry my legs way too early in the day!

Tnx for the video. Which company of fis skis are best, there's so much variety -Atomic, Head, Volkl, Ficher... Which one do i know is best for me haha

@nirmoskovitz3652

5 ай бұрын

Can you use the Fis skis on piste at any snow conditions, even if it's a nice pow day?

cool .....

Great video! Then how do I see the difference between the two - is that even possible or do I have to know the measurements to each of them? And can I even buy FIS/pro skies in stores or are they bought directly from retailer?

@stef2499

3 жыл бұрын

my dad knows someone from the brand producer of such a ski. Its hard to get them new. Usually they are reserved for the athletes. You probably can buy the old used ones. Again, i never checked that out, I just know fis are hard to buy new.

@trouts4444

3 жыл бұрын

You can get full Volkl WC slalom and GS most anywhere. You have to ask to be sure. Some places do not know the difference. Most places that sell Volkl and other skis have the recreational WC versions and sometimes a pair or two of the full WC's. The full Volkl WC's are very close to what top racers get. Consumers generally can't buy WC skis that pro's use. Those are usually hand selected for pro's and some conmpanies do tweaks for pro's. The full Volkl WC are made the same way with the same components as the pro version. You won't be getting a lesser version. The consumer WC is different but a great ski.

Quite right, was given a 184 GS volkl race ski to use. I was a Ski patrol director so could do a turn. On grooms they were the fastest ski I'd ever been on, you would loose your hat and goggles, you had to use a helmet, they were like rails. They would not bend, had all sorts of prangs off-piste as the tip would bury and eject me over the mountain. Great for hard smooth ice conditions, but way too much for me really.

Can i do rails on them

For 90 percent of people, id reccomend the more recreational skis!

👍

My question is where did you get that one peice suit I want one 😂😂

@paullorenz6389

3 жыл бұрын

I love this suit, Not a onesy though. You can find it here: en.onyone.co.jp

Fast motorcycles fast ski's life is good

@spartanthe300ththermopylae4

3 жыл бұрын

Couldn't agree more with you on both counts! 👍😊

So basically only time to use FIS ski is when you need to conform with the standard to be able to enter a FIS race :D

Nice explained Paul. However, we all know that you would be able to ski even with the doors of the toilet... :D

just bought a pair of deacon 74, hope they work well

@paullorenz6389

3 жыл бұрын

The Deacon 74 is a great ski. I have a pair and love them. I made a short video review on the Deacon 74 a while back: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qn2kzpNsZJTApJM.html

@albertfreeze7129

3 жыл бұрын

@@paullorenz6389 That's a great video! I watched it before and it helped me make the decision to buy deacon 74

You forgot to mention the "Camber " differences.

Great video, I completely agree! Unless it's absolutely perfect out, WC race skis really are no fun at all.

@davidhawkins9782

3 жыл бұрын

You Don't ski much

@MsEpicdemon

3 жыл бұрын

@@davidhawkins9782 I’ve skied and raced on FIS skis quite a bit, trust me there are far more fun and forgiving skis out there. You absolutely do not need FIS skis to have a good time, and chances are most people aren’t strong enough to actually get anything out of the skis

ポールか👍️

My Head Supershape IMagnums 163 with a race plate seem plenty stiff at 52 to me! Anyone know how they compare to the R tiger SL?

@Mr15951595159

3 жыл бұрын

R tiger SL is much tougher )))

@magoobro

3 жыл бұрын

Race tiger is quite a bit stiffer and the speed you need to move to keep up with the ski is a lot faster

@KTB3007

3 жыл бұрын

@@magoobro I guess I will quit while I am ahead lol.

@taffy9725

3 жыл бұрын

I'm 53 and my quiver includes the Head I.Rally @170 cms , the World cup Rebels I/SLR @165 cms and a pair of FIS I/SL RD@165 cms. The rally's are a fab fun all round ski , the I/SLR is a playful snappy, forgiving recreational slalom short turn tool. The FIS ski's, well they really are in a different league. They're a lot stiffer both longitudinally and torsion wise so you need to "ski" them to get the best from them. Find a nice pitch add some speed lay them over and they rip through turns giving you a hell of a lot more confidence that they will hold their line. They are however pretty unforgiving if you get caught in the backseat at speed and you'll need fast reflexes and a strong body to recover with any dignity. Since buying the FIS ski's the others have not been used. Rent a pair and see how you feel on them, you'll know pretty quickly if they are for you or not.... Personally I love them.

@KTB3007

3 жыл бұрын

@@taffy9725 good on ya, like to try it but hips are getting stiff.

What does it mean for skis to be unforgiving?

@RAIKKONEN111

4 ай бұрын

Well I figured out the hard way. FIS ski's are so stiff that if you load them (you really push your ski with high edge angle) and you don't anticipate the force/acceleration they give you back (mostly when you're too much back) the ski's slingshot you.

I want the fastest base !

@misterfunnybones

2 жыл бұрын

sintered base + correct wax!

I just get the blue ones from the rent shop.

@nomadnomad9517

3 жыл бұрын

If you are at least an intermediate skier, you are using equipment which is holding you back. If you also get the 2 buckle rental boots as well, you are really not giving yourself a chance....

@DiegoRuiz1991

3 жыл бұрын

@@nomadnomad9517 - WTF? The rental shop in the mountain I go the most to uses (old) 3-buckle and even 4-buckle boots...

@nomadnomad9517

3 жыл бұрын

@@DiegoRuiz1991 4 buckle boots are acceptable, though having your own boots is the way to go, as your foot shapes the inner to your needs.

@DiegoRuiz1991

3 жыл бұрын

@@nomadnomad9517 - I have fucked-up proportions (my feet are woman-like short but very wide) so even with my own boots I wouldn't be all that well so...

@nomadnomad9517

3 жыл бұрын

@@DiegoRuiz1991 Man, if you really like skiing, get a pair of custom boots made. They will make the right boot to fit your foot. I recommend Strolz. The expense pays off on the snow and they will last 10 years. I have them and the difference is huge.

"if I need the extra width" *retail example is still less than 70mm waist* My all mountain skis are 102mm waist, can't imagine ever going back to something so skinny

WC skis in slalom and especially GS are much narrower than high performance skis for another reason. If the ski is wider there is more surface area on the skis to go faster on the flats. This is important for SG and DH skis where there is more time on flat areas where edges are not engaged. If fact letting the skis "swim" on the flats letting the skis float and wonder into a frictionless state is important. In SL there are some flushes that are flat for a few gates where having a wider skis not edged can help speed. Watch Shiffrin keep her skis flatter during a flush than other WC women racers. GS skis are narrower because narrower skis take less time to get on and off edges. The skate at the beginning of a course where it is flat is where any ski will be on edge doesn't matter if it is a wide or narrow ski. The last few GS turns are flat where wider skis would help. However, being able to get the skis on and off edge for 80% of the course is more important than ski width. In GS where the turn is much wider and rounder than a SL turn, the skis must be pressured quickly and the energy of the skier contributes to the energy of the skis (i.e. the skis bends into an arc) and energy is also transmitted by the skier transmitting this energy into throwing their mass down the hill. In many GS turns a round arc can be faster than a "J" turn where there is edge lock between turns. In longer length turns the body follows more or less the turn arc which the sidecut of the skis dictate. Many recreational skiers/racers think GS is easy because that is a typical radius of a turn they freeski. However, the WC skier will be able to shorten that radius when they can get away with it. WC coaches set GS courses where there is a gate placement where the radius can be cut only if the skier can make the next gate without dumping speed (I.e. skivot (skid/pivot) and only the best can do so. A few years ago when the FIS made GS skis have a longer radius it was skiers like Ted Ligity figured out the how to make a skivot and win. For the last few years the FIS shortened the turn radius of GS skis and the rounder turn came back. Many recent recreational skiers probably have not skied on cambered skis where the tip is softer and the tail very stiff with a square tail not rounded upwards very much. A recreational ski will have a round, rockered tail that releases the turn. The squared tail will lock the skis into a radius the skier decided on and will be hard to release. Hense, the recreational skier will feel that they can't turn the skis. The WC skier will put the appropriate pressure and edge inclination that the ski demands for a given radius turn at the beginning of the turn and follows through the turn. The "J" turn is not used in racing as much anymore as the skis will skid at the end of the turn. WC skiers will also start their new turn much earlier than the recreational skier. Skiing on WC SL/GS skis is very exhausting as the skis much be worked at all times and when the skis are not inclined and pressured, the skis seem impossible to turn.

@tlougee

3 жыл бұрын

I am pretty sure race skis are narrower to allow for better edge hold. The wider the ski the is under foot the harder it is to get and keep the ski on edge and the torsional properties of the ski are compromised, but I agree narrower skis are also faster edge to edge.

@shooter7a

Жыл бұрын

They are narrower for torsional rigidity. End of story.

actually i have gs fis dynastar and sl fis head and the sl one are not very hard to menage in turn but gs ones are so fuckin hard that my 70kg are not enough to make propper run on soft snow or on flat, simply if you want a fis gs DO NOT BUY IT until you can ride normal gs

He never said anything about the segnificant price difference

booth expensive af

Pro skis are not magically going to turn an amateur into one... Use the right ski for you and the conditions.

@petercreagh8797

2 жыл бұрын

When I was learning to ski I never knew how much my choice of gear was influencing my progression and when I went to longer skis I found with my beginner boots my heal would lift and my foot would twist when I turned so due to the fact I was addicted to skiing at that point my next boots were advanced boots which I found very stiff but by loosening the buckles and flex I was able to ski them ok. As I got used to them I would progressively tighten the buckles. The only negative thing about them is they are colder but its worth it to have far fewer falls with better control with heel lift and foot twist eliminated. When I went to a GS race ski not long after getting the boots the transition was reasonably quick. Sure I am not on top of the skis 100% of the day but I am on top of them enough of the day to know I made the right decision. I am tall and heavy which may have played a part in my reasonably quick transition to them. I currently ski mid fat and fat skis in the longest length you can get as I feel safer at speed on longer skis.

Race skis are not sold in the shops. Real race skis are to be chosen by each athlete at the factory. Very very stiff.

Just adding the fun fact that FIS skis most skiers can get ahold of are not even the real FIS skis. The FIS skis available for sale are the mass production ones. The real FIS race skis are limited production. The only way you can get those are directly from the manufacture and you need VERY low FIS points for them to even consider making the skis available to you. In the past, you may have been able to buy a used pair off a sponsored racer, but now most companies will not allow them to be sold as used skis due to keeping specific construction information away from other ski companies on the race circuit. If you are not an elite racer in the World Cup or racing the Continental Cups (Europa or NorAm) you will probably never be able to ski on the real deal FIS race skis.

I am a noob (advance skier) and I bought a worldcup GS skis. It is so stiff and unforgiving. I made a big mistake and I strongly advise anyone that is not a racer should stay away from any worldcup skis.

@paullorenz6389

Жыл бұрын

Agreed! WC skis are for experts who are high performance skiing on very firm snow.

If you are talking a racer sponsored stiffer ski like top racers get then About a second or two faster on a demanding course.

if you don't race there's no use in buying a fis ski. even if some people think it makes you look cooler

@TheRealOnlineAcc

2 жыл бұрын

FIS GS I agree, but you get way more performance with a FIS SL ski. It all depends on your objectives.

Advice from a loong time skier. Do NOT buy the Volkl skis with the UVO 3D damper. I have many skies, just from the Volkl brand (among 3 other brands) i have 4pair, now to the point. The skies with the so called UVO 3D vibration damper is a gimmic or a hoax if you will. Ive bought the Racetiger GS and its totally a miss. The ski have been made more flexible at the front for the so called 3D-damper to work, but this does not work at all. What happens is that in turns when the ski hits small bumps the front of the ski bounces off the groung because the ski is not stiff enough to be forced to the ground, this again leads to no grip in the front that makes the ski lesss controllable. So these skis have little or notting to do in a regular used slope form the mid day and out when skiers have made many pases in the slope, if the ground is not ultra smooth and absolute spotless these skis wont work. My older Racetigers without this "UVO 3D" gimmic is like glued to the slope with full contact and controll. I am so disapointed about these Volkl GS with UVO 3D damper, i have used Volkls since late 80s when i was a kid running competitions, but this last pair i will dismantle the bindings and give the skiis to the junke yard. So sad that a company like Volkl have started to use marketing "gimmics" to sell skiis and i fell for it :-( ,,,,, my over 30 year use and good faith/trust with this brand is over.

@paullorenz6389

3 жыл бұрын

I respectfully disagree. The early rise that volkl has added to their retail skis has created the characteristics that you describe. I feel that also due to the tip rocker. All tip rocker skis do this. I believe the UVO works very well in dampening vibration. I have done significant testing with this. But each to their own and if you feel that it doesn’t work for you then that’s the important thing so best not to use them. I like them particularly on the WC ski as it is a full camber ski.

@thecoment3371

3 жыл бұрын

@@paullorenz6389 So, you dont disagree about my characteristic of the ski itself. This feature makses the ski tip bounce up and down with grip/no grip constantly changing, making the ski unbalanced and unpredictable to ride. I cannot think of any circumstance a Grand Slalom competition ski for the experienced user should bounce up and down in the front like this. This "gimmic" is a huge fault by Volkl, and i already have decided not to use them anymore, they are going straight to the junke yard, i dont even want to give them away these are horrible. My first use of these brand new Volkls was flying down to Lech/Austria in January and i used them extensivley for 14 days, and was supprised that they was so badly constucted, especially when the conditions was hard and steep one dont want a ski with unpredictable front grip bouncing all over the place, though it made it a more chalenge i dont like it.

@paullorenz6389

3 жыл бұрын

@@thecoment3371 yes agree with the characteristics, but I believe that this is due to the early rise or tip rocker. A lot of brands included early rise in their retail skis and they all bounce around. The World Cup versions do not bounce around and they also have the UVO. As such the UVO is not responsible for the bouncing, the early rise is. In 2014 Volkl switched from a cambered retail SL and GS to early rise in both models. This was when I first noticed the bounced. I’ve tried volkls with and without the UVO and the characteristics you described were affected by whether the ski is cambered or not. I am not particularly in favour of tip rocker on a carving ski for this reason.

@thecoment3371

3 жыл бұрын

@@paullorenz6389 Thanks for your informative replys :-)

@paullorenz6389

3 жыл бұрын

@@thecoment3371 thanks for you comment. I appreciate the frustration with the bounce 😔

Both are geh....

.. modern skis are annoying, the style of skiing you are required to do on them is .. sloppy. I ran out of atomic ARC's years ago.. so i just don't bother to ski now.

Aahhaha an AUSSIE givin ski advice..... hahahhahahhhahahahhahahhahaah!!!

You would never catch me in a gay 70’s ski outfit like that!

U need to learn to plant ur poles better ur just flailing them around at times