16:26 "Ephraim has great offense but suffers from success, gets overconfident and it almost gets him killed". I mean, that's also his job in the story.

I didn't know I wanted to see fanart of Eirika and Lizard smoking weed together, but boy am I glad it exists.

@keylimecat7890

11 ай бұрын

fire emblem the sacred blunts

@SpiredRapidity

11 ай бұрын

@@keylimecat7890starring puffraim and eirikush

@rayday3159

11 ай бұрын

Sacred Stoned

@testchannel8151

3 ай бұрын

Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stoners

@rdrrr

27 күн бұрын

Which Sacred Stoner would you smoke with? I'm going with Saleh, he got that Caer Pelyn magical mystery homegrown.

One thing I would mention is that Seth can be your best unit for the entire game, but you want to let him get bosskills to keep his EXP gain up

Finally!! A guide for us plebs! Loving these videos btw man! :)

@ma.2099

11 ай бұрын

Do you upload your videos to KZread? I can’t seem to find your iron man’s that I’ve seen live. Hope to see you do a sacred stones next

I agree with this list but would rank some characters differently : - L´arachel could be on temporary utility since she is your only mounted healer when you get her and she is "okay" - Cormag could be in "Good minimal Investment" since a promoted Cormag at lvl 10 at Epharim route as Wyvern Knight , can already give you results. Though Eirika route he is worst since he appears in Chapter 13 rather than 10 and is less needed for the next chapter lol. - Tana could also be on "good with minimal investment" since she only needs a couple of levels and can easy promote and her bases are so good that a "base level 4" can tank an Aura from fucking Riev lmao. Also same as Vanessa , she can tap into the broken Wyvern Knight. Of course she competes for the Elynsian whip but she can use master seal or the one from Cormag if you get it. Also she is a flyer , which helps a lot on rescue/drop strats and bypass lots of things - Other than that , I agree with the tier list , I played Sacred Stones over 30+ times in Hard Mode and mostly in Epharim route , and i am agreeing mainly as you mention that is a tier list for "someone casual that is picking up a game and wants like either instant results or good results after small investment".

@deyvisonwillamy6931

11 ай бұрын

I disagree with the rank good minimal investment, what's investment ?? For me is exp and need for promotion item, that's time and gold. So for me no investment units are PRE PROMOTED , they don't need exp or promotion item for being strong.

Ok, but you forgot to mention how it's important to train certain units because they look cooler than other units, or are simply have more detail in their portait art. As a casual scrub, i feel your tier list is slightly lacking. By these metrics, Joshua gets a pretty hefty boost by artwork alone.

@actuallizard

11 ай бұрын

The hat is too powerul

while i overall agree with your placement of knoll in the ok tier, I think there's some things about him you forgot to mention. Upon promotion he can become a decent staff user, and also though he has literally 0 luck he joins in a chapter where you can get the hoplon guard which will negate all the crit he faces. But then again he's not really a frontline unit so it's probably not something i'd recommend you put on him. 26:18 i'd also like to say that while phantoms are good at killing eggs in the egg map, they're also pretty good at baiting out stone uses and siege tomes like bolting and shadowshot as well - though that still makes knoll only slightly more useful in the main campaign (especially since you only really face a lot of those kinds of weapons in creature campaign which most people usually don't do). he's just a lot better if you like to play it safe imo

@jierdareisa4313

11 ай бұрын

Indeed, creature campaign is a whole other beast entirely! You might want to delay your promotions, get more summoners/bow wielders and go for high-stat-cap classes if that's your end goal.

Knoll might not be necessary but he sure is fun! In theory you could let Seth kill everything but I think as a new player phantoms are an easy way to experiment and have fun.

@fuzclock8561

11 ай бұрын

Phantoms are nice baits for dragons or long range tomes.

@actuallizard

11 ай бұрын

Oh yeah summoners are really fun to use. I pretty much always use Knoll, because summons do provide some unique utility, I just don't think it's enough to say that he's really good

'I'm not sure why you would use Natasha ' Its because cute girl. That's why i used her lol

@aprinnyonbreak1290

11 ай бұрын

She's good in creature campaign. Slayer is a hell of a drug

Personally I always train Joshua and Cormag whenever I play sacred stones for chapter 15 for their quotes against the chapter bosses. I also always train the lord of the route I’m going to use for the battle quotes against bosses.

@robertobrosful

6 ай бұрын

Ephraim and Orson's battle quote while in Ephraim's Route goes so Hard, that's the only reason I play his route

Wait no way this isn't scripted. Video had good pace and flows really well Anyway obligatory "Amelia is good in general" meme comment

Is this the fabled anti-summoner video?

@actuallizard

11 ай бұрын

I started writing a script for that and realized I don't know if I have more than 5 minutes of things to say about it lmao

Marissa :( I understand, it just hurts.

I would say that you undersell summoners slightly. They are good for baiting seige tomes. I know it isn't much but I did say slightly.

I think Colm is a bit underrated for a couple of reasons. Point of note is that I play slowly and thoroughly so I'll kill every enemy on a seize or kill boss map before clearing. A use I find for Colm is as a Dodge tank, because enemies deal high damage to him they will frequently prioritize him but his evasion is good that he can usually dodge and he frequently has enough bulk to tank a hit sometimes two. Since his damage is lower he rarely suffers from success so he works fairly well holding a choke point in some situations. I try to avoid relying on Seth since I think it's boring so finding creative solutions around some problems can be a lot of fun.

This has become a Sacred Stones channel and I couldn't be happier

@issamkw

Ай бұрын

fe5 for mekkah, fe8 for lizard

Rather than access to warp, I think access to Restore is more important for casual play. Have you ever played the Grado castle chapter with only one restore staff user? It’s miserable.

I have used Marisa just cause I liked her design and personality. Eirika and Tana as well, these girls are royalty and were admirable to me. Overall the game was pretty easy with mostly Seth, making these projects possible. I have lost him once before Darkling Woods and was actually worried that time if the other units could even make it to the ending. Casual players opting to ban Seth would be a hard-mode.

First pegasus knight are interesting unit to look at it because some types of new players tend to not use the frist but use the second for thinking the second have more str or don't use pegasus at all because are afraid of ballista.

@asafesseidonsapphire

11 ай бұрын

For some reason my pegasus Knights and my cavalry units always tend to be the first units to die.

@lace_mononym

11 ай бұрын

​@@asafesseidonsapphire early game Pegasus knights are really flimsy. It's so easy to overextend and leave your early high-movement units stranded in a tough situation far ahead of the bulk of your army. I don't even want to know how many Vanessas I've killed within three chapters of getting her 😅

@deyvisonwillamy6931

11 ай бұрын

You're Brazilian kkkkkk

@asafesseidonsapphire

11 ай бұрын

@@deyvisonwillamy6931 How did you know man. É realmente incrível que alguém possa facilmente encontrar um Hue BR no meio do nada mas ok né.

@deyvisonwillamy6931

11 ай бұрын

@@asafesseidonsapphire cliquei no perfil dele sem querer e ele postou um vídeo com título em português kkkk

My first run and was hard Mode... My team were very mixed until I got all prince and princesses and I had Natasha as solo monster killer and Ross and Amelia was kinda rough but the boots were something to be reckon with

it has taken me to this video to learn i missed Cormag. I swept that map too quick. Missed the whip too ;o;

Not a bad list. I may not agree with some of these listings, but I think you argued your points well.

16:26, or as BigKlingy would put it "Death by awesomeness.", that has a goid ring to it tbh.

I find that myrrh is incredibly useful for the first mission she is available. Train her up a bit and then warp her to the purge user and smite him for the tome. Most of the units there wont be able to hurt her if you leveled her high enough and then bench her until last hope or endgame.

Honestly i promoted ewan on the same chapter he came in erikas route and in one zombie map got him close to 10 he was by far my best mage and i feel like having heals on wheels benefits Larachel she became a good unit for me

Honestly I get how you feel about summons But also I'm a not-great player who's probably gonna do an Ironman fe8 run next replay bc i'm a filthy resetter who needs to learn, and fixing mistakes with a summon will help a lot when I get there. so Phantoms aren't like a top tier, but I like their niche (How long? Not sure. Been playing Engage, fe12 & fe4 first time and i have yet to do fe5 or tellius)

I think the point of the trainees in this game is to fill in holes in your team from bad luck/deaths. Ross can fill in as an axe user and can be a secondary beefy bow or sword user, or can go for terrain travel to make up for a dead flier. Amelia can take over for General in case Gilliam dies and can go for Paladin/Great Knight in case you had bad luck with some of your Cavalier growth/death (extremely unlikely, but does at least offer the Knight to Great Knight route). Ewan can be a secondary Mage Knight in case Lute dies or fill in the Dark Mage role (either replacing or complementing Knoll). Now, whether they’re actually good at doing that is another question. I do think that was the intent though since Sacred Stones offers both easy grinding and a post game while not making any of the trainees have insane growths.

Omg I always use those 3 weakling ewan ross and amelia They r monster with dragon blood in the body if u train them right

I have a soft spot for Eirika In my first playthrough she was so speed blessed that the undead dragons had 0% hit on her so she was one of my best combat units in the last game (she also dealt with the final boss)

@JaidynReiman

2 ай бұрын

Eirika also has an advantage of promoting into a mounted class which helps her out. Odds are she's probably considered bad mostly for being sword locked I think. Eirika is a mandatory deploy anyway so I think it's kinda like you just have to use her anyway.

I love to use Amelia Ewan Marissa and Neimi but my favorite os Ross and Erika they are the stronguest unit Edit i forgot Lute and Joshua

Vanessa is super difficult to use as a new player. She dies to every enemy in her joining chapter. She is high effort high reward. I would say she is actually harder to train than Ross in some ways. Just if you train her and are a skilled player who knows her limits and good with positioning she is a great unit. Cormag is much better for a new player. Although I don't think I would put any fliers in easy deploys. Would not put dancers there either as they are super hard to use too. Fliers and dancers are great if you are good at the game and want to play efficiently. Armor knights like Gilliam are way better at helping new players beat the game than a flier or dancer. You can stick a unit like Gilliam or Franz on a fort and they can just enemy phase every enemy and gain exp in chapter 1 and 2 for example but Vanessa you need to weaken a unit so Vanessa can kill them but her hit rate is so low since she is up against axes that she might miss and then die on enemy phase causing a reset. Gilliam doesn't care about weapon triangle because he can survive many rounds of combat thanks to his bulk and if you are a new player doing the turtle style that noobs are known to do then hitting end turn a couple more times does not matter.

I'd put ross in ok. Never had a bad ross. He's definitely high effort, but he's reasonably good for a horseless axe user.

@aprinnyonbreak1290

11 ай бұрын

Agree He's generally worse than Garcia, but he does good if you do invest in him, and it's not THAT hard to get him started

@JaidynReiman

2 ай бұрын

Ross is probably the only worthwhile one because you get him so early.

Summons are kinda stronger than you made them out to be, they're great for eating shadow shots or take dropping dozla or Ross on peaks or lakes. Baiting the draco zombies in the final chapter where none of your units except maybe a capped magic bishop, usually Natasha, is 1 rounding. Also just passively leveling knoll or Ewan still niche but for LTC or Ironmans they do provide some indispensable utility.

I'm sitting here with my Paladin Amelia I promoted at Lvl 15 absolutely flabbergasted.

I think the main conceit of the trainees is that they get 10 extra levels of exp, so promoting them at level 10 kinds gimps all of them. They might compare more favorably if they don't promote right away, so it's probably, at least, worth talking about the pros and cons of that. Especially for a non-speed-optimized list

@ZeroKitsune

4 ай бұрын

The problem with the trainees is that their growth rates aren't actually that great, so even with 10 extra levels on everyone else they don't always have significantly better stats but they DO take significantly more exp investment. It's honestly disappointing, as a more casual player I really like the idea of the trainee characters and I want to use them but it really isn't worth it since they cost more for more of the same thing you already get.

@SonicTheHedgedawg

4 ай бұрын

@@ZeroKitsune I think that's really fair. It's possible that they are intentionally mid to make it more obvious that they are ,“the reward is about the accomplishment you feel more than the unit you get” though I'm not sure how successful it was on that front

Coming to this late, I know. I actually think this list is really good, I agree with more of it than I usually do. My only hang-ups are Natasha and Eirika. I'd say Natasha belongs in "good with investment," since her promoted stats are pretty good and she has access to Slayer, which only two other units can also get. The other units in "OK" all have some sort of issue they always have to work around, but Natasha is able to get out of her rut...with investment. If this was an Ephraim route list I think Eirika's spot would be fine, but on Eirika route it feels weird to put the force-deployed-on-every-map unit in "high effort." She feels more fitting for "OK" to me; unfortunate sword lock, but good Spd and horse + Sieglinde on promotion helps a lot. Looking at her compared to Joshua, I think she's definitely worse, but not by a lot. And Joshua is in a good spot.

Best Tier list by far. Very accurate. ( only thing I disagree is Ewan is actually decent if you invest a bunch in him, but I guess most characters are.) Good stuff!

I hate Tana's join situation on eirika route. She joins under leveled and to make it worse, the only weapon she has in her starting inventory is the stupid heavy spear which is completely useless in that chapter. You the player have to either know or remember that she joins and make sure to have an iron or slim lance free in the convoy so she can actually do stuff when she joins, and even still, best she can do is rescue someone who's better at fighting to the bottom village and avoid the pirates and archers like death itself. Just not a good tool for the chapter she joins and it feels awful.

11:41 "Arthur's combat doesn't SHINE right away..." You don't say :D

I actually thing Amelia is better in Ephrim route. She gets a free healer to corner and bop down. Gets her to at least lv3 if not 4 due to her low accuracy.

Seth Seth. Very Seth.

Gilliam in "Good with investment", above Lute, for me in this case.

I like turning Gilliam into a General just so he can tank hallways for me in defense missions

Mostly good stuff but a couple of points. Vanessa should be right next to Tana or at least at minimal investment, specially since the early game axes are so bad for her and makes her tricky to level. Cormag needs really minimal investment, since he comes in with a promotional item at level 10, specially good in Ephraim route before ghost ship. I believe Ross is great with investment, although a bit higher effort he gets extra exp for being a trainee and becomes a really useful damage dealer with 1-2 range as a berserk.

garcia supremacy

L'Arachel is worth using on the grounds of being a Troubadour, and then worth investing in since she's the only unit to get good use out of the S-Rank Light Tome (sure, it's because she can't be a Bishop, but technically correct is the best kind of correct), which is thematically meant to be her weapon anyway. It's kind of funny Sacred Stones even has branching promotions, with how many more of the S-Rank weapons have units they're canonically connected to compared to games without branching promotions that don't have the legendary equipment be story connected to a lot of characters. ...Also, I feel like I heard the word "Warp" way too many times for what was supposed to be a "casual" play ranking. Map skipping kinda goes against the point of challenging the maps at their own own pace when none of the maps are difficult enough to require it for survival's sake. Like, Warp still has value for getting the jump on certain enemy groups and other non-map-ending objectives, but if you're ending maps early you're sabotaging the whole point of taking the time to build your units up enough to handle late-game fights straight up. (Plus, Warp is a potential trap option for actual novice players, cause it's easy to get yourself in trouble using it without more play experience.)

@actuallizard

11 ай бұрын

L'arachel getting to S rank tomes is gonna take some doing. She comes in chapter 11, needs 7 levels of staff experience, and then gets D rank light tomes with not great combat for that point of the game. I don't think it's important that we have someone use Ivaldi at all, but if we had to have someone do it, I'd use Artur before I used L'arachel. Being a troubador isn't amazing in fe8 when L'arachel joins. It's a 6 move class, so no movement advantage on bishops or sages that you already have or are about to get until she promotes, which is gonna be a minute. Warp is good even if you don't skip! Also even if you don't warp at all the only placement I would change is Moulder's. No one else's placement was heavily impacted by warp, it's just a good thing all of them get to do that's worth mentioning. I disagree that warp is a trap option. Sure players can get themselves into trouble, but they can also get themselves into trouble with any high move option. Like its really easy to get into trouble with a flier, but fliers are still good.

@Shalakor

11 ай бұрын

@@actuallizard Yeah, I totally agree of course. The high investment tier fits her to a tee. The real answer for using Ivaldi from a slightly more practical standpoint is if you have 2 Sages or a Sage alongside a Mage Knight for your S-Rank Anima. Saleh starting with B Light certainly makes it not much of a grind. Won't change me always building L'Arachel up each run, since she is highly story relevant, even if not strictly gameplay relevant.

@joshuabonesteel2303

10 ай бұрын

I feel like I'm largely casual in my playing, and I still use warp on last hope, darkling woods, and decent into madness just so I can skip most of the nonsense that those maps have and because it's hard to get the purge tome otherwise.

Tried using Neimi and Colm recently. Got their support up and everything. It wasn't worth it

@ThatGuyThai

11 ай бұрын

Colm and Neimi are income and exp generators. Colm can hit 20 on his starting map. It's a pain in the ass but it's something he can do. Neimi can hit 20 through Joshua's arena map since her matchups are reliably easy for her to win or cancel a fight, and then promote as soon as you get the bolt. It really just generates funds you probably don't need but if you enjoy those characters, it is a unique contribution they can do, and can effectively become more Jeigans for rescue drops and such.

@TuskyBaby

11 ай бұрын

@@ThatGuyThai That really doesn't sound fun at all 🤣

@ThatGuyThai

11 ай бұрын

@@TuskyBaby haha its really if you want to slow down early game to make the game play a little faster later on, because I'd use Colm and Neimi when I don't care to train Ross and Garcia. Colm and Neimi will move 7 early compared to the axe duo's 5 and 6. They'll reliably double, as the game progresses, require no boosters, and Neimi has low competition for the S bow, while S swords isn't coveted by many either.

I got to disagree a bit with Ross i ain't gonna call him one of best units but he is at least ok or he is good with investment do to one simple thing chapter 3 is perfect for leveling him to level ten safely without taking to long to do and after that he will delete or severely weaken enemies both good things but yet again compared to the other trainees he returns are lowest and if want to go berserker he needs a item that sells for good bit and the warrior and hero class I'd say is arguably done better his dad and undeniably done better by gerik when it comes hero.

You gave tana a good rating so youre safe Franz in paper mache tier

You made a whole video about how joshua only gives to the team and takes nothing and you didn't put him in the minimal investment tier :( also I will say you're morelikely to need a flier than can do combat later in the game ,so Tana is as good of a training porject as vanessa. Espcially since she will be your only flier doing flier things (not combat)

I think Garcia deserves to be in Good With Investment. Enemies are slow enough that Garcia can double a fair amount once promoted to a Hero for the +2 speed, he has good 1-2 range, and is probably the easiest Garm unit in the game for its insane speed boost. I don't think he's anywhere as good as units like Ephraim, but he's at least better than others like Lute or Joshua within the same tier IMO.

@actuallizard

11 ай бұрын

Enemies are slow, but not as slow as you are thinking. The 10 speed he has after hero promo is really only good for doubling very slow enemies. E.g. in chapter 10 at 10/1 all he can only double soldiers, archers, and steel axe dudes, and he can get doubled by the myrms. It's to the point where he needs quite a few levels to double everything you'd like him to, even with garm (e.g. he needs to be 10/10 to double caellach with garm, Duessel does it at base with garm). IMO it's more fruitful to stick the garm on duessel or gerik (depending on which route you are playing), esp since garm doesn't become available until towards the end of the game, so you still have to deal with his low speed until then.

I never understood the whole "Useful in LTC but not in a casual playthrough" It's usually things like a units Mov or access to Staves (Warp/Rescue/Barrier) but no one mentions things like Arena Viability (directly tied to available turns) Whether it's LTC or casual, armors are ass, mostly the GBA non-oswin ones are what I'm familiar with. For example Wendy is trash but on purpose, Barthe (fe6) is supposed to be the "pre-promote-ish" armor and he gets easily one rounded by generic fighters unless promoted and even then still can die in 2 like most other units in addition to his low mov making him have fewer options to attack or defend. To say that low mov is less of a deal in a casual playthrough is either drastically underestimating the amount of strategy needed to beat the game or sadly a reality. Warp and Rescue (Barrier was there mainly for GBA staff grinding, which shouldnt need an explanation) are so immensely powerful for not only trivializing sections of a map by not having to interact with it (LTC) but also removing liabilities or changing your direction of attack to also trivialize sections of a map (if you could rescue zephiel in fe7 and then warp Matthew the chapter would go from on of the most dreaded to one of the easiest. Or you could grab an important village and not have to worry about a time limit on some fighters and abuse fortresses nearby) The harder the chapter, I'd argue, the better warp and recue. This is extremely lengthy and this next part is mostly for Thracia 776, but it's something I never hear people mention. The Arena sucks, It seems like whenever I send Eliwood or Canas to fight they almost certainly lose or are forced to forfeit. But when I played 776 I found that some units are simply superior in the arena for a few reasons. FUCC, and supports. Callion is often a favorite of casual players mainly because he is somewhat of a growth unit and also a Cavalier (Technically the only one in the game, I think Fred and Conomor might be premoted from it). In LTC you of course never have a chance to train him in the arena but he does extremely well in the chapter 9 arena for the reasons that he has 4 FUCC, and 2 supports. Not having 2 supports means you risk getting crit by Jormungandr (Dark Mage, I would know, Fergus got crit by a mage who went first) and those 2 supports provide callion with 20 crit which with his 4 FUCC allow him to almost always crit. Statistically callion should never have to forfeit more than 50% of his matches (just enemy growth things) and I'm not even sure he is close to being able to roll and enemy that one shots him, so as long as you forfeit when necessary, he usually crits and doesnt get crit back. His two supporters are both force deployed so they have no cost. Charm does not work in arena, neither does crusader scrolls.

@actuallizard

11 ай бұрын

Generally, I agree. Things that are good in LTC tend to be good in normal play. However, I think there are a few differences in assumptions for ltc vs casual. E.g. Warp skipping is definitely still good in casual play, but it's something casual players don't usually like to do. So I don't rate it lower because it's bad in casual play so much as because I assume a lot of casual players just don't want to do it (I do still value it though, even if you aren't skipping warp is great). Also since it's a desert item in this game its totally possible for a new player to just not have warp. I also usually just assume we're taking more turns, since it's not something casual players are indexing on. Also some units def lose some value in a no rigging context. Cormag is still great, but he doesn't get credit for 4x piercing lyon outside of LTC. 0% or 100% growths can also make some units seem better than they are in normal play. Other than that, yeah what's good in LTC is often good in casual. Move and staves are def still good in casual play, which I hope was represented well in this list! I think the good mov and staff units are all pretty high here. I think the main differences here are just when we assume a more lax turn count, it becomes less of a big deal to do things like get Lute to warp. I do think mov is a slightly less big deal in casual playthroughs. If we don't care about turns, we could actually get Gilliam to do combat (he's still not helping with any side objectives). Of course, the problem is he's still not good at combat, AND his move is bad. Hence the rating here where I suggest just using him for 2-3 chapters while you don't have other options.

I've actually never used Myrrh

Nice video! I enjoyed it, but definitely less than your scripted stuff, so while I'm sure it's easier to do it unscripted, I hope you don't move away from your scripted content. One time I did a run where people who'd never played fire emblem drafted for us, which in my case meant I ended up with absolutely terrible units like Neimi and Ewan. Even in that context Innes was pretty miserable. He had all the usual sniper problems but couldn't consistently one round either, which made him near useless. Still better than Neimi though, who made it to ranger and proceeded to do pretty much nothing.

@actuallizard

11 ай бұрын

No worries, Scripted content isn't going anywhere :). I thought this would be a good video to experiment with though, since my scripted thoughts on these units are already in the tier list. We'll be back to scripted videos next week!

While Seth is an incredibly useful and powerful tool at the players' disposal, he saps away at the fun of the game because any problem you can see gets solved by throwing Seth at it. Newer players should experience the game with moderate Seth usage as it doesn't make for compelling gameplay. Just my opinion, anyway.

If I were able to make them pack for fe8 I would do the following things Increase the number of Deployable units by two on most Maps Trade Amelia!knight option for wyvern rider option, have her join by ch8 Stronger crit bonus on swordmaster, berserker Assassin gets Astra instead of silence -10 hit on most weapons to give myrmidon / accuracy units a better chance Boost enemy growths 30% or so Natasha joins before moulder, L'Rachel joins earlier, 2x-3x exp growth for staff use Side quest before route split with Marisa and Amelia - Marisa is rescuing Amelia and the two must survive monsters and soldiers alike. Possibly with L'Rachel too. Plot is that Amelia is running away from forced conscription and finds Marisa (who would have a Lance reader btw), who promises to help Great Knight 7 move. Troubadour 7 move. Serene would be at least lv5 instead of lv1 Lute has increased luck and skill for crit lulz Increased weapon triangle effectiveness to compensate for lowered hit chance +10 crit for myrmidons

No love for Ross? I end up playing him every playthrough.

@hrr2b239

11 ай бұрын

He’s fun to use and provides a unique utility, and is by far the least intrusive of the trainees to use, but what you get out of investing in him isn’t really all that great when compared to the rest of the early game cast. Berserkers are cool, and water walking gives him stuff to do in a few chapters, but realistically he’s the worst unit that joins you early on with the exception of Neimi

@aprinnyonbreak1290

11 ай бұрын

Garcia is mostly just better If you can get Ross to Pirate early he can do a couple neat things, but Ross catches up to and surpasses Garcia distressingly late, when Garcia is just solid when you get him.

"Summoners are bad if you pretend nothing in fe8 can ever kill one of your units" I knew it was coming and then you said it :( I like the rest tho.

@actuallizard

11 ай бұрын

It's not that nothing can ever kill your units, it's that there are very few instances where a phantom is the most productive way to bait an enemy. The claim to fame is baiting out boltings or tomes in 16, but that just saves you a staff use. Summoner baiting is useful, but all of your combat units can bait. The ai manipulation and the big move are the more interesting parts to me. I think that they are good if you bite off more than you can chew since they can prevent an enemy attack.

Maybe it's just me, but I kinda feel like mentioning you "Get Saleh/Innes/Duessel/Knoll earlier on x route" is sorta misleading. Like yeah you do get them eventually, but only once the route split is technically over. Whereas saying you get Gerik earlier on Eirika and Cormag earlier on Ephraim would make more sense. I also think a guide like this could benefit going over rescue/dropping when in the cav section. If you're going to bring up the concept of rescue/dropping, that mechanic deserves it's own sidebar in the context of newer players. I don't think most people understand it well or it's value. Overall I say it's a great guide though! I'm sure someone could use this kind of guide as an intermediate between being casual and getting to the next step. Keep going, dude. I love this kind of content.

bro i ended the game with 32 dragonstone uses xd

Counterpoint: The animations for General are awesome and Great Knight animations are dogwater.

In my personal opinion, I don't really like the argument of "Don't grind in the tower of valni because it trivializes the game and makes literally any unit you want viable, meaning it's entirely pointless to judge units as good or bad since they're all equally good because of tower grinding." It's not that I disagree with it kr think it's wrong: it's completely correct. But at the same time, tower grinding is in the game, designed to be done, and by skipping it you ignore a significant portion of the game's content. I think it's completely fair to say that a unit is fun to use because you personally just like them and are perfectly willing to grind them up in the tower to get them good stats and have fun with them like you want to. Maybe it's boring, but if you want to, you still can, and I appreciate that the game lets you do that.

I don't think Eirika and Joshua are really far apart for casual players. Whenever I actually train Eirika, her performance is pretty much the same as Joshua. Give her the Killing Edge or Marisa's Shamshir, and she's basically just another copy of Joshua. She also gets the mount later, while Joshua remains footed. Joshua's only major advantage is that he gets the Audhulma sword and nobody but Seth probably wants it. I think one could argue that Eirika is "stealing kills" or "going slower" in previous chapters, and that's fair I suppose if you think that - Joshua is better then. But if you actually invest in Eikira and plan to take her route, Joshua is kind of redundant. I think Joshua is a bit better on Ephraim's route because you lose access to Eirika, but since Eirika is force deployed on her route, I really do feel like Joshua is a bit redundant as you should be training your lord when playing casually. Like the idea of intentionally not training Eirika on her route is already a concept that no casual player is ever going to adopt naturally on their own. If I had to restructure the tiers a little, I might go like: Great with Minimum Investment: Moulder, Gerik, Duessel, Saleh Great with Investment: Artur, Lute, Ephraim, Tana, Cormag (and the cavs) Good with Investment: Eirika, Joshua I think this extra category separates Eirika and Joshua from other units that can attack at range or have better movement. This makes more sense to me as I don't think Eirika or Joshua are better than any of the units above them. At the same time, I do think it's correct for Eirika to be ahead of L'Arachel and Ross, so this further makes sense to me. Eirika has so many opportunities to scale her levels - it's not her fault if the player benches her or doesn't utilize her because that ignores the potential if you had used her. I like these categories better personally. --BREAK-- Also, Vanessa is a bit of a weird one because training her to really meaningfully surpass Tana while playing casually is not likely to happen. I lost count how many times I focused on training Franz, Artur, etc. in the early game and realized that Vanessa was too busy doing utility tasks to gain many levels. When Tana joined in Eirika's route, there was a really good chance Tana's stats were similar to Vanessa's despite the level difference, which also meant Tana could benefit from faster level ups and higher strength. I feel like when playing casually, picking between Vanessa and Tana is something each player has to play by ear. I do agree that Vanessa should be ranked higher though because if you brute force her leveling to get her promoted during those first 10 or 11 chapters, Tana will be behind.

@actuallizard

11 ай бұрын

Even with investment, Eirika just can't do things that Joshua can. She can't fight Caellach well (she can't promote, so she's stuck on 20 speed before weapon weight and no audhulma access), she does worse in hamill canyon (cant double the rangers with heavier weapons, has to be away from the action to attend to cormag), and does worse against generics in general. She also requires much more investment because she comes with a deficit of 4 str, 5 spd, 2 def, and 8 hp vs josh. She can't use his killing edge because she starts at E rank swords. You could argue she's a little better after her promotion, but neither of them are especially good after chapter 16, so I don't think it outweighs him being significantly better for most of the game. Vanessa also isn't too bad to train. It is difficult to train a bunch of the weaker early game units (franz, artur, etc), but vanessa is the best of the bunch, so I'd rather give the exp to her than franz. I actually think casual players will have an easier time leveling Vanessa since they might not feed all their boss kills to seth.

I think Syrene is maybe the worst unit in the game honestly. So recently, I did a challenge run. And the gist of is that I could only really use the commonly accepted "bad" units. Absolute basic gist, Syrene was the only flyer I could actually use. And god, just everything from when she joins onward is completely working against. In her join chapter, you need to get to her in two turns or else she will die to the Druids rushing her. And if you've got enough mobility to do that, you don't really need Syrene for anything. The next chapter it *seems* like she would be good for rushing eggs, but her resistance is too low, so she gets oneshot by shadowshots, so you can't actually move her basically any faster than any mounted unit who won't die to a shadowshot. So it just makes more sense to field a mounted unit who is actually good at combat. Then in chapter 19 she has one use. Being the fourth flyer if you're doing two rescue drops and a warpskip. But, you only need two flyers and a warper, as all you need is a combat unit to oneround morva and your lord to seize. Then chapter 20 she is again so restricted by seige magic that any slight purpose she'd have as a flyer is too hampered by getting oneshot. And this would be completely fixed with a few more points of resistance. You ***could*** train her, but with every boss from her join onward being able to just oneround her from 1-2 range, you'd have to do it through agonizingly slow pre-promo normal enemy feeding. Any other bad unit you can just train into usability through cheese. It'll be hell on your turncount but it's relatively painless. Syrene *needs* the tower to become decent. Other units might be more redundant, but at least their redundancy lets them fill slots during challenges. Syrene is almost completely pointless even with that stipulation.

I only disagree with the "good without investment" the mosto strong pre promoted should be here, like rennac, Ines, dozla.

Hi, casual player having said that This is my take based on my experience. Also I tend to promote with 20 level. Tana is much better than Vanessa. Natasha is better than Moulder. Lute better than Saleh and she needs some time only constitution is low, stats are high in general and doubles almost always. Emmy Its actually good. REALLY GOOD and even better if she has A with Colm. Talking about Colm has stats similar to Joshua so I have use him as another fighter plus his stealing helps a lot with all the goodies. Knoll is really good, Erika just give her all the strength and thats a 6+ strenght, Larachel its good for her movement also Amelia and Ross are really good. Ross need speed, Amelia paladin really good

Tana is MUCH better than Vanessa. Period. She starts off as good as a decent Vanessa can even get to at her join chapter and grows MUCH better

Forde being that high is cursed. Belongs in high effort low reward.

@issamkw

Ай бұрын

the mekkah propaganda is real

vanessa can't be that high, she is at best a filler/ok the rest of list seemed good, a bit harsh on the trainees tho

list was good but for personally sacred stones is one of those games where every unit is good. The only thing I disagree is tethys. I'm a big dancer/singer hater and I truly believe they are no good. Don't wanna spend time babysitting them when I can just deploy another good unit instead. Personally lute, ross and Neimi are a must deploy for me, just love to see their progression

This list is still isn't particularly good for "casual" play. You're still overvaluing fast play compared to how a "casual" player would realistically play. Just count the amount of time you mention things like "warp", "move-issues", or "flyer-skip". Those are not really the things "casual" players tend to be overly concerned with...

@actuallizard

11 ай бұрын

All of the units rated highly are great if you do no skips except for I guess moulder? I mention warp because it's still good even if you aren't skipping. It's not like casual players aren't allowed to use warp. Though even if you didn't use warp at all, the only placements I would change are moulder and Natasha. Fliers and move are important in all contexts. Maps like distant blade, innes recruit chapter, the egg map, darkling woods, and more all reward flying and high move and flying at any pace. Mov being good isn't really a fast play thing. Which specific units here do you think are rated poorly for casual play?

@kakalukio

11 ай бұрын

@@actuallizard O a lot of units remain good/bad regardless. E.g. Seth is just good no matter how you play, similarly Innes remains underwhelming. And while casual players still need movement, they can usually cover most of their needs with 1-3 fast units. Seth and a flyer is usually more than enough to reach the objectives you'd care about. So it's interesting to see how often you still mention movement in a tierlist specificly aimed at them. As for warp, there's 1 warpstaff in the entire game. Sure, a casual player can use it, but with the exception of maps like the darkling woods, there's usually not even that much reason for it in a casual run in most FE's. And they''re extremely unlikely to pick a unit for the entire game specificly cuz he'll be able to warp more effectivly on 1-2 levels. As for specific units that rate poorly in casual play: Tethis is a prime example. Generally speaking 2 good units are easier to use than 1 good unit + a dancer, since the dancer herself is kind of a liability and needs to be kept out of harms way while keeping up with the unit that needs to be danced for. Which in a casual playthrough is usually not worth the effort when compared to simply having 2 good units. Similarly, I'd have Myrrh lower, she's too squishy to use comfortably, and leveling her up isn't really an option. Nearly the entire ok-tier I'd say are just filler. Gilliam should be higher as he and seth are the only units you have from the start who can take a beating and it takes a while before anyone else can tank reasonably effectivly, so calling him mere filler seems a bit unfair since by the time you'll actually replace him you'll be halfway through the game. It's not like Orson who you only get for 1 level or Syrene, who's just kind of worse than the other pegasus knights if you've actually been using them before getting Syrene. The main reason you have him so low is cuz you love paladins and he competes for promotion with the cavaliers. Erika is a bit higher as well, if only because a casual player quickly learns to throw at least some xp on their lord. So while she's not great, she should not be that much effort to train as she should already be getting enough xp to at least be decent-ish if only so she doesn't fall too far behind and gets oneshotted by a random balista-shot or one of those monsters with long range attacks. The cavaliers I'd put lower, and definitly not give them their own tier, because cavaliers tend to suffer from being too rounded and thus are never actually the best at anything. Plus, you already have Seth & Vanessa for most of your movement needs in the early game. By the time you need a third movement unit you've got plenty of other options to pick from as well. Again, main reason you have them so high is cuz you really like paladins. Other than that; Ross should be way higher, leveling him up is trivial with his hatchet. Plus you get him in chapter two, so he is only barely weaker than your other units at that point. Honestly, he only barely counts as a "trainee" unit. And if you include skirmishes/the tower then Amelia should be higher as well since you only really need 1 or 2 skirmishes to get her up to speed as well, which isn't exactly an excessive level of grinding in a casual run (unlike Ewan, who needs far more than that due to how late he joins).

@ThatGuyThai

11 ай бұрын

​@@kakalukio His definition of casual is more like, you've played the game before, but now you're playing it for leisure, that's casual play. Your definition nearly implies that they either cannot read or are going in entirely blind, and even if they do that, the tier list is pretty well ordered for them to consider who should be getting investment. A brand new player investing into Gilliam, for example, is going to find out all that exp they sunk into them is far behind the army and is scaling horribly into even just the mid game. One can do it because they like Gilliam, I like Gilliam, but if I'm giving him kills, that's less kills for units that accomplish far more and scale better.

@kakalukio

11 ай бұрын

@@ThatGuyThai Dude, why does your definition of casual exclude blind plays? What kind of weird view on casual players do you have that you expect them not to play their games blind? Also noone is going to invest in Gilliam only to then leave him at the start of the level while the rest of the army runs away. They'll play around having a slower unit and incorperate that into their strategies. It's not even that difficult to play around a slow unit since the vast majority of objectives aren't even time sensitive in FE anyway. And the few objectives that are time sensitive can be handled by other units. And the good FEs will include objectives for your slower units in their map design anyway. As for scaling, the only ones who scale badly and fall off in FE are the Jagans (or well.. most jagens given the existance of Seth). Everyone else generally scales fine, and you'll rarely find another unit that doesn't scale. Especially not in Sacred stones, with its weak enemies & options for grinding.

@actuallizard

11 ай бұрын

​@@ThatGuyThai This isn't true, this covers my recommendations for blind players. High move, good combat, and flying utility are good for blind players!

L'Arachel is way too low. Orson, a unit that has literally one chapter of usability, over someone who can provide rescue-dropping for the rest of the game while your better mounted units are doing more things of value? I just don't get it. Hell, I'd even take L'Arachel's staff utility over what Orson's doing in 5x. It's not great, but it's for the rest of the game and can mean your other staff users (who've likely promoted by the time you're getting her) can focus on combat. I'd put her above Colm/Rennac because I don't see what either of them are doing that is providing more to the player if you're going for LTC.

@ZeroKitsune

4 ай бұрын

But this tier list isn't for LTC.

The natasha argument is dumb " It's going to be a little slower " My brother in god not only you have 2 FOW missions where you can spam torch ( and she joins before them and you can buy torch staves before them too ) but you literally have 11 missions to get her to A, which even in efficient play is really easy provided you actually spam the torch staff in the 2 FOW chapters, which what you would also do for Moulder espacially in ch6, UNLESS if you're LTC'ing there's no reason for her to not have A rank by ch16 " You don't need her when you have other warpers " you can apply this argument to many units in the series, it means absolutely nothing

Where's the waifu tier ? The "this character sucks but I'm gonna use her cuz she's cute (or simply tiddies)"

Ephraim be suffering from success😢