Are my Tubes failing? How do I tell if my valve is microphonic? How do you match power tubes for balanced performance? The Valve Tester MkII from Orange will assist any amp tech in quickly and easily uncovering valve faults. orangeamps.com/product/valve-tester-mkii/ This video contains paid promotion from Orange Amplification. More details on how Science of Loud implements product promotion - www.csguitars.co.uk/disclosure #scienceofloud #tubeamp #valvetester More from Science of Loud: Support on Patreon: www.patreon.com/csguitars Join Science of Loud Discord - discord.gg/uJHFgJRunb Buy Science of Loud Merchandise - www.csguitars.co.uk/store Website - www.csguitars.co.uk Contact - colin@csguitars.co.uk ___________________________________ *Description contains affiliate links. Purchasing using one of these links will generate a small commission for Science of Loud at no additional cost to you.*

Ooh man the price is steep. But collecting old tubes and never using them because they might be bad is expensive too… Also great for testing new “matched” tubes

I'm a week late, but PLEASE keep the tubular videos coming, I've been mesmerized by the hot, glowing tubes/valves (valves inside tubes?) since I first saw them as a laddie in the early 1960's, when my dad's Fischer receiver used tubes. Tubes with valves inside them cooking are fascinating to me, because I can SEE the electrons going through the circuit, and I can FEEL them. Of course I was the weird kind of child that watched records going around for hours, turning down the volume so I could hear the music coming off the grooves (and I still love it). Uncle Doug, Psionic Lyle, and now this channel are my favorites. Three different personalities, three different perspectives, three beautiful minds...

I like that Orange branches out to make products like this. Even though its not something I am ever likely to buy. I found the information in this video very interesting. Thanks Colin

"Orange really are catering to the typical guitarist's cranial capabilities in making this device super simple to operate." I feel personally attacked...

@markpell8979

8 күн бұрын

Ah, Chris, but if the shoe fits... 😁

@jasonhuang6332

8 күн бұрын

We keep making fun of bassists yet they are smart enough to make the switch to active electronics and solid state

@pharmerdavid1432

Күн бұрын

I welcome Orange making it user friendly! Why do you think Gibson puts "rhythm/treble" on the pickup switch - how else would I know?

I just looked this tester up online..... Bloody Hell!!! HOW MUCH?!??!?!?!!?!

@pharmerdavid1432

Күн бұрын

I guessed it would be $500-900USD, it's a brilliant piece of equipment, not needed for mere guitar players, more for techs who have dozens/hundreds of valves/tubes around. Unless you are like me and have dozens of amps and more tubes than can be counted, you don't .need. this piece of kit, but I find it a brilliant piece of test equipment. Chris is obviously a genius, I am a mere brain damaged drug addled guitar player (on good days), but I want an Orange!

@WiThErZ666

Күн бұрын

@pharmerdavid1432 I have 1 6505mh and would have more amps if it weren't for the wife. I have about 6 12ax7 valves for it (+ the 3 in the thing) and a spare pair of EL84 power valves for it. I'm one of those guys that takes the phrase "matched set" at face value as I have no other option. I would love a way to check my valves and make sure I'm know I'm happy with what I'm putting into the thing. Granted, it's not an old AC30 or something where the valves play a far greater role in the operation of the amp but I like to look after what I have. If I was in your position with the amount of gear you have knocking about then price isn't really an option. You could even deem it as an absolutely necessary piece of kit. Just £850 ($1,100) stung a little tbh. Also, swap "valves" for "tubes" as you see fit.

Holy Cow! It's about time something like this is made available to techs! The last "Tube Tester" I ever saw was at a Radio Shack in the mid 80's. That was a monstrosity, but it did very similar tests on many kinds of valves, not just ECC8x or 12A_7 and the 3 major power amp valves. Some of the socket designs dated way back to the invention of valves, or shortly after (late 20s, early 30s?). It also only told you if the valve was ok, worn or dead...that's it. This much more advanced device looks like something our shop needs.

@skullheadwater9839

8 күн бұрын

Us techs have had real testers for close to 100 years, just so you know.

@Bob_at_Quibsonguitarworks

7 күн бұрын

​@@skullheadwater9839Thank you for the information. However, that wasn't my point. This option is more user-friendly and potentially more accessible, as mentioned in the video. Additionally, those vintage items are not as readily available or affordable in the USA for a guitar builder/repairer who rarely sees tube amps (it's worth noting that many bands no longer use tube amp rigs like in the past, yet they still use guitars). It seems you believe you understand my needs better than I do. Being condescending doesn't necessarily convey superiority. I'm sorry you felt the need to even bother replying to someone you consider below you.

@ScienceofLoud

7 күн бұрын

That particular user has been making condescending and aggressively negative comments on a few videos now. They clearly have no other outlet for their bad attitude than the comments section of my videos.

@skullheadwater9839

7 күн бұрын

@Bob_at_Quibsonguitarworks tbh I asked a question in the P90 video and this guy took it the wrong way and insulted me. Last night I decided to tell him how little value that $1100 toy has to anyone but a beginner. I guess dude is used to everyone worshipping at his loafers telling him how smart he is because he knows a vibrating string induces current in a magnet with a coil of coated wire.

@ScienceofLoud

7 күн бұрын

Exhibit A

I am not very happy with this. I purchased this Orange MKII valve tester immediately after they released it. It shows faulty readings on 5% of my new tubes. Or it shows a green light (good) when a tube does not pass any sound in an amplifier. Also sometimes both lights illuminate. Either green and red altogether or green and amber. They were able to replace the first valve tester MKII I purchased. However, the second one they sent does the same. I even sent the problematic valves causing the issue to Orange headquarters. So they can trace the problem. Never heard back from them since. I am not sure if it's worth the price I paid. It might be good for a guitarist who wants to check the tubes in his amp. If you do repairs I don't recommend it. But why would a guitar player spend 850 quid to test a few tubes? You could just simply replace all your tubes and save money.

You can keep the tubes from the quads that tested good either as backup for other push-pull amps with a single pair, or for single ended amps. Or, _if you know electronics,_ use them to build your own amps.

I love learning new things from your channel!

wow, orange finally made something I would actually buy. Gotta keep the amp collection maintained.!

Great point on who it's for. I used the original unit for years, and it worked great to quickly identify the state of a tube, and then a good tech can use their ears to decide from there. The one complaint we always had, and it seems Orange tried to address with the microphonics testing, is that to truly test the roadworthiness of the tube - it should have a vibration monitor inside! Emulate the shake! SHAKE IT!

First new tube tester in years. Excellent.

Man, I love Orange. I know they get a lot of love but they really don’t get enough. They’re not perfect, but the idea that they make a device like this is awesome. I wish people understood that while yes they’re not quite Fryette or Friedman build quality, in particular my OR30 and AD30 are built so much better than amps that cost 2-3 times as much that most guitarists will generally regard as “so much better” just because it costs more. There’s a certain other British amp manufacture who while I love their amps and own more than one of them, Orange build quality (UK made anyway) is objectively better and more people need to know about it. In that respect, Orange doesn’t get enough recognition.

That’s a nifty device and that it gives a good way of diagnosing with the visual LEDs gives a good idea of what could be the issue and also pair the values with similarly performing buddies. Less compensating assumed then.

Colin, from a fellow Collin I want to say thank you for this video! I saw this when it came out earlier and I really wanted to get one for our store. I think I might now! ❤

I'd love for you to revisit the topic of valve vs solid state amps. I've yet to find a clear and concise explanation of the real world difference in application especially when it comes to distortion

Been looking for something like this for a while. Thanks

This video is just about perfect; my only complaint is that I could not make it first!

Have the mk1 version and still working great after all these years... hundreds of valves tested at my workshop... had to resolder all the tube socket pins due to wear and Stress... apart from that... works like a charm... nothing to complain

I need one of these now. Great video

I need one, I don’t have a tube amp nor any tubes to test, but it looks neat 😂

Thank god for amp modellers

Neat contraption. Personally I have a 5W practice amp from Harley Benton that was so laughably cheap that if it ever develops a problem I'll chuck it and get another one.

This is a very compelling product and the interface beats thumbing through a roll chart for testing common tubes, but goodness the price tag is steep.

I got the first generation of the valve tester and have had it for years. It does the job well.😊

Young folks and volume drop in a tube amp...🔥

Awesome video

I wish we had this several months ago when we removed ALL the valves from a bandmate's Dual Rectifier, and put in ALL new valves...

Excellent stuff, keep it up - from an aging analog and SIPI Engineer :)

Electronics stores used to have tube testers in them... that was a verrrrrrrry long time ago. Glad to see one of these readily available.

@ScienceofLoud

8 күн бұрын

Ah, the good old days when you could go to the store and test your TV tubes on the tester.

@nicholastotoro7721

8 күн бұрын

@@ScienceofLoud We're talking the 1970's and early 1980's... my childhood here in the US LOL!!!

if I had a higher power Si rectifier amp, it would eventually pay for itself. ( or like a bassist who runs a Traynor YBA 300, would waste a lot of money if they didn't get one ) but my only tube amp is a 5Watt with a 6Z4, so it's better to just swap tubes at reasonable intervals.

Again those Phonic Micro tubes true to form!

I don't think you have to be a hifi audiophile fanatic to have one of these. I recently got into tube amps and have two of them. I have purchased matched quads of EL34 and EL84 tubes, and will be getting KT88s also. As expensive as some of these tubes are, not to mention the amps, I think a bit over $1,000 isn't too unreasonable just for the peace of mind. This is a darn handy little gizmo.

For the price of this tester here in the U.S., I could just buy a whole new set of tubes for my dead JCM900 SL/X 100 watt head and call it a day. GREAT vid though and if I had disposable income, I'd buy one immediately just to have one. I remember back in the 1970's, Radio Shack had a huge tube/valve tester in their store. Wish I had TARDIS (for many reasons).

@dingalarm

7 күн бұрын

For £850, I would rather *buy* a new amp 😂

With all the tubes I may find bad, I feel bad just throwing them in the trash. I know they’re consumable, but there has to be someone out there that can recycle them or at least repurpose them so they don’t go die in a landfill.

Rather than all of us having to buy one of these, it would be great if someone who did own one offered a mail-in tube test service. Like most of us, I have a drawer full of tubes with unknown health that I've acquired from various places over the years. I'd gladly pay a reasonable fee to send them off and have each of them checked so I know what I actually have. Or if a local music store had one that you could pay a few bucks and bring in your tubes to test. It's always a bit ambiguous to use them for swapping with questionable tubes in an amp I'm working on since I don't know if they're actually good.

Great vid! Which part of this is balancing valves? Matching the numbers?

I know it is a bit of a niche product, and I really badly need one, but 850€?! I mean I get it, Orange is not gona sell as many of those as for example their amps or heads, but man, that's soooooo expensive😢

Tried to get the first one but couldnt find one anywhere, glad they have re-released and love the upgrades. Does the special microphonic pencil come with it Colin?

@ScienceofLoud

7 күн бұрын

Yes, the pencil is one of the accessories included. They've thought of everything!

@ScienceofLoud I'd like to know the affects of using different tubes than an amp is designed for with or without an adapter, say 6L6 being replaced with KT66 and no other changes made.

Dude!! I have a bugera 333xl that the distorted channels have basically no volume no matter how load I turn it up but if I run a signal like a preamp or my hx stomp into the return of the fx loop and it works perfectly fine as a power amp. It’s really load being a 120w tube head but the tech I took it to checked all the valves and couldn’t figure out what was wrong with it and said to take it apart would basically cost more than buying a replacement

Colin, what do you think of the valve monitoring things in amps like I've got on the back of my Hughes & Kettner? I've had the amp for years now, I use it all the time and I've never really thought about the valves aside from how pretty they look.

It looks to be incomplete / VERY short on tubes and results. I guess a 5751 matches well enough to a 12ax7, but I doubt a 6072 / 12ay7 is covered. 3 color LED as the only ‘results’ doesn’t cut it either. I’ll stick with ol’ Superior Instruments TC-55 I got off eBay for 1/20th the price. Not great by any means, but seems to blow this out of the water.

1:42 you mentioned Hi-Fi and valve in the same sentence? daring today aren't we?

The price of replacing tubes is getting harder and harder to justify. I have three tube amps, 2 fixed bias, and one self biasing. A re-tube with a bias will cost you no less than $300 each time. I convinced myself I needed that tube magic, but I'm finding digital software is just as good because I sure can't tell listening to my songs. I fool myself in the moment, but honestly can't tell months later. I can adjust amps while mixing, and have options beyond anything I could ever afford with real tube amps. The irony is, this tube tester is just pushing me to avoid the cost and hassle of tubes altogether. I too have a box of used tubes. But I'd rather buy an Orange Super Crush at this point or just commit 100% to amp modelling.

Another thing about replacing valves, many amps will require the valves to be (re)biased. Now that is beyond most guitarists.

@chrispodesta8105

8 күн бұрын

Yeah, wasn't it that exact thing Colin once said "Don't fuck around if you don't know what you're doing"

@ScienceofLoud

8 күн бұрын

People got REALLY upset with me for giving out that warning - they took it as a personal insult rather than me protecting them from a potentially lethal electric shock. I will never encourage anyone to open up their amplifiers and start poking around UNLESS they are appropriately qualified to do so. Even the people who are qualified and experienced get shocked occasionally - it would be much worse for people who weren't taking the proper precautions.

@barretprivateer8768

8 күн бұрын

Only fixed bias amps require this and it usually comes down to turning a potentiometer, a musician may not be able to target a specific plate dissipation % but they can probably turn a knob until their tubes are not red plating

@ScienceofLoud

8 күн бұрын

It's not really about that though: It's about people sticking their hands inside live electronics with hundreds of volts coursing through them. If you don't know what you're doing, it would be very easy to short a filter cap, or have one hand on the chassis while the other is touching something live, or to go in there with rings or dangling necklaces... It's all the knowledge that keeps you safe while turning that trim pot that matters.

@rabidwallaby84

8 күн бұрын

My old Traynor 300W bass amp had bias controls on the back for each tube AND indicator lights to make this a breeze.

This is the sort of tool I want despite having literally no need for it. I'm just the sort of arsehole who wants it on a shelf to look cool next to my broken geiger counter I got from the physics dept at school many years ago

On the thumbnail I thought it was just going to be a cheeky lesson in how to tap valves with a branded pencil for microphony.

Hemicycle! A new word. Is it something related to a velocipede with a Chrysler engine?

This could actually save the amp owner some money if they discovered the tubes replaced are actually still good. Especially if it becomes possible that the good ones matched gains.

Do the different valves make a significant difference to the sound of the amp? I am sure at hi-gain their may not be great differences but i for one would be interested in the sicence behind this. Also does cost make a difference on the Valve?

I mean, people would say something about "no useful data" but it tells me if a valve is busted or not, I'd consider it useful data...

I would be interested in a less expensive 9-pin tube tester .. one that only tested el-84s and ecc83 would probably fly off the shelves at the right price. just one socket, less interface, and much less processing power.....the problem is, it would still need a power supply; and that costs.

@yaniv-nos-tubes

8 күн бұрын

get a used vt 1000

I had a preamp valve that went bad on me

I used to work for Marshall (terrible employer with 1960s-whip-cracking values in the 1990s so I left) We tested if the valves were microphonic by tapping them individually and listening to find if any were significantly louder than the rest ...with no signal passing. With this in mind your vintage amp may not have passed this test when it was brand new. Just sayin'.

You should go on tone talk with Dave Friedman.

Colin, Really cool piece of kit! Does operating the tester require wearing black and red gloves? :D

@ScienceofLoud

8 күн бұрын

Gloves aren't required to handle valves, but I didn't fancy getting glass in my hands if I accidently broke any

@JohnShalamskas

8 күн бұрын

1 - possible breakage 2 - tubes get HOT when you apply power to them.

@allanflippin2453

8 күн бұрын

@@ScienceofLoud That all makes sense. Actually, I was teasing you a little about your "stylish" choice of gloves :D Rock on!

@m.a.6478

6 күн бұрын

You could absolutely go with other options like black+orange, black+navy blue, red+navy and many more. Just don't use pure white, because your valves could be scared and run away.

Aaand THE BIG QUESTION: how much is the sucker?

JJs? not Jai Jais?

@ScienceofLoud

7 күн бұрын

I did hesitate over exactly which way to say that to get the least complaints. I should have gone for jai jay and then no one would be happy.

I miss the short bits at the end of the video

If this is affordable, this is a great tool for a guitarist. Not for a tech necessarily (however plenty of amp techs are used to working without a valve tester altogether), but it's a good middle of the spectrum product. Like do you want to hunt for a huge valve tester from the 60's for god knows how much money just to have any indication of the valve health? Looked up the price for this, at £850 (but free delivery worldwide!) this is far beyond the reach of any guitarist and most techs so I have no idea who this product is for. What is the target audience that is willing to put that much money into a monitoring device that's not absolutely fully featured? It's way easier to monitor some audible or behavioral changes and just replace with a new tube, or trying a backup tube to see if it fixes the problem and then getting a new one if it's very high quality. I assumed this to be priced at 100-200 euros and being a reasonable buy even if you don't absolutely need it.

@flyingrat492

8 күн бұрын

Don’t know what world amp techs don’t use tube testers unless they’re overpriced hacks. £850 is sort of reasonable for a piece of testing equipment, on the pricy side but it’s going to last longer than the old stock as you say. If you think about how much guitarists spend on amps and gear, it’s a pretty minor cost overall when a retube of some bass amps costs the same

Not as techy as units 50 years ago but with it jammed packed with IC chips and perhaps a CPU or two is just why it is “cratering to the typical guitarists carnal capabilities”.👍

@dingalarm

7 күн бұрын

Actually, I think a guitarist's carnal capabilities are at opposite ends to their cranial capabilities 🤔🤭😋😂

For that price I'd buy a MaxiMatcher.

So, if you only own a few amps it's cheaper just to replace 'em.

Hmmm… should I keep buying nice sets of tubes and putting good ones in storage, or buy this then live off my old tubes almost indefinitely? 😅

I'm surprised you overlooked the testers that were everywhere in local repair shops. Complete idiots could easily use them.

Do they get hot? Is that why you’re wearing gloves?

@ScienceofLoud

7 күн бұрын

They do get hot - that's a requirement for valves to function. However, I'm wearing gloves to protect my hands in the event I accidentally break a valve while testing. I don't want broken glass in my flesh

over $1500 with expansion modules. Yikes.

The MKI unit was very unreliable, failed easily and Orange didn't provide any repair support, we had 2 of those units in our amp repair workshop and both failed and become unusable. I don't know if they fixed the issues with the MKII unit, but be careful, a Tester that you cannot trust is completely useless

Too bad you can't find anywhere to buy except used

@ScienceofLoud

7 күн бұрын

You can buy new directly from Orange - the link is conveniently in the video description

@Mrk00k00dud3

7 күн бұрын

@@ScienceofLoud I’ll check it out!

That isn't a tester, that "thing" only tells you if a tube is dead or not. What good is that? Did they give you a free one, to help them sell them to dummies? You can tell if a tube (or as you UK folks call them valves, as if they control the flow of water) is good or bad if you plug it into an amp and the tube doesn't light up, that means it is dead, if you aren't sure swap for a known good tube and voila. Do you want to know if your tube is microphonic? Tap on it with a chopstick lightly while your amp is on and if it makes a bunch of crazy noise it is microphonic. You can literally get an actual legit Tube Tester for less money than that crap. I checked because I thought that garbage would be $100, but apparently there are some people foolish enough to spend $1000+ on something that just tells you if the tube works or not. I don't even know where to begin, when for less money you can buy a vintage tube tester that has been calibrated that you can actually tell exactly what is happening even current match power pentode tubes and dual triodes like 12AX7's by specific mu. In other words, you can measure exactly how much current flows through at a given voltage. This channel is for 20-year-olds who just learned their cowboy chords last week. What happens if you have a vintage amp that uses octal preamp tubes, or any tube except for the dozen most common ones?

@ScienceofLoud

7 күн бұрын

I thought you "Unsubscibed"?

@skullheadwater9839

7 күн бұрын

@ScienceofLoud I did , but this video popped up at the top of my home page last night and since I am a tube Amp builder/tech, i have 5 real testers, I was sipping some Bushmills, and bored I figured It might just be fun to tell you what crap your alleged tester is, after all you went off on me the other day for asking a rhetorical question which rubbed me the wrong way being that you jumped to conclusions and decided to insult me for no reason. Have a nice day mate. Isn't that what you Scottish guys call each other.

@ScienceofLoud

7 күн бұрын

@skullheadwater9839 is it really an insult to say you are negative and judgmental when that is literally the only behaviour you've chosen to display?

@skullheadwater9839

7 күн бұрын

@ScienceofLoud I asked why would someone be afraid to ask a question about how a pickup works because that's what you titled the video. I didn't get it. I don't see how that us either negative or judgmental but hey maybe I am the one who decide to make it personal, oh that's right it was you.

@ScienceofLoud

7 күн бұрын

And I gave you an honest answer, and since then, you've been on a crusade to prove me right! People are afraid to ask questions because of people like you being judgemental and condescending in response. Ironically, in attempting to display how big brain smarter than everyone else you are, all you've done is make people think you are a colossal idiot. Maybe tone it down and people won't immediately get the impression you are a prick?

But over $1000. Priced for people who repair amps, not for the average guitarist I think

@ScienceofLoud

7 күн бұрын

The average guitarist has no need for one of these, it's specialist test equipment for techs.

@StephGV2

7 күн бұрын

@@ScienceofLoud It's funny how you used to find tube testers at grocery stores (where they would sell you replacements). Now you have to know a guy 😁 A lot of people just buy new tubes without getting the old ones tested.

Why the gloves. I know hands oil. But in one scenario he grabs them with hands in other with gloves. So why?

@ScienceofLoud

4 күн бұрын

Hand oil isn't a relevant concern for these kinds of valves: the bulbs are too robust and they never get hot enough for it to be a factor. The gloves were a precaution in case any valves were to break - I'm not hugely keen on having broken glass penetrating my hands.

If a guitarists has 850 EU/USD i guarantee they're just gonna buy a new amp. We're phenomenally dumb like that.

@ScienceofLoud

8 күн бұрын

Like I said at the end of the video - this is not a product for the average guitarist. This is for people who make their money repairing and servicing amplifiers. You could spend hours chasing down a microphonic valve without a tester, but with this you can pin point it inside 2 minutes. That time saving alone would justify the price to a professional tech.

@andrewlong445

8 күн бұрын

@@ScienceofLoud yeah I maaayy have looked the price up before I finished the video. That's on me.

£850 LOL

99% of the time its not your tubes, you just want it to be because thats the simplest possible repair.

@K707OR30

8 күн бұрын

So many people need to read this

@flyingrat492

8 күн бұрын

In my experience, 30% of the time it’s the tubes, 50% the caps and a lot of the rest of those repairs are consequences of a valves failing and damaging other stuff, but you might not realise as the first thing most people do is replace their valves

@K707OR30

8 күн бұрын

@@flyingrat492fair enough but I think who OP was originally saying that for is for the “my amp is currently on fire and every time I touch it I get knocked unconscious for about 10 minutes after being shocked…should I replace my tubes?” crowd, which is probably about 95% of guitarists.

@flyingrat492

8 күн бұрын

⁠​⁠@@K707OR30I mean I had a similar less serious problem caused by a tubes heater shorting, so you could actually have that problem from a bad valve. But I get what you mean

@devilsguitaristmusic

8 күн бұрын

99%??? Tubes are, or originally were, the cause of a lot of problems. It depends what kind of problem you're having of course, but certain types of issues are commonly caused by tubes. But, tubes are the easiest thing to replace and a lot of people just will replace their tubes and you'll never hear about them having an issue. The things that you hear about are problems people weren't able to fix themselves.

$1100... thats a no from me dog. I know its a handy piece of equipment for techs but it's double what the previous version sold for.

@ScienceofLoud

8 күн бұрын

That's mostly because it can do twice the stuff the previous version was capable of