Miguel actually pulled a Kingpin. Finding an intact family in a parallel universe to take it over was EXACTLY what Kingpin did in the first movie.

@Johnnyupside

11 ай бұрын

Now that you mentioned kingpin isn't miles goal the same as him in the previous film. Risking the fabric of space time continum for their family

@scarletspidernz

11 ай бұрын

@@Johnnyupside And we come full circle back to when it all started

@danteloparco6708

11 ай бұрын

Also Scarlet Witch’s goal in Multiverse of Madness

@astrophynix179

11 ай бұрын

@@danteloparco6708 Yeah! I thought the same thing, people crossing over to other universes to find a one where they can have a family.

@lordmango6060

11 ай бұрын

Yes! Although Kingpin wanted to _take_ that substitute family and bring them into his own universe. Whereas Miguel just took the deceased version of him's place instead. It's a more sneaky, but arguably more ethical(?) way of doing it.

You forgot to mention how Gwen’s father quit the police force, thereby removing the police captain dying thing. And her universe is still intact. You should have definitely mentioned her.

@Thesuperduperbooster

10 ай бұрын

There could be a future captain close to spider Gwen that ends up dying tbf

@pingpong607

10 ай бұрын

@@Thesuperduperbooster Then the same could happen if Miles stops his dad becoming captain. While Miguel tried his hardest to stop.

@sb221

10 ай бұрын

❤

@Thesuperduperbooster

10 ай бұрын

@@pingpong607 if anything that just further proves that Miguel’s theory has holes in it. He hasn’t learned about what happened with Gwen and her dad yet. So if the same could happen to miles, he wouldn’t know and still is in his mentality that these events are destined to happen

@gabfid3

10 ай бұрын

In the first spider-verse movies rifts from using the particle accelerator are mentioned, creating holes through which one can travel creating laying the groundwork for the events of the second movie.

Surprised not many people aren’t mentioning Peters baby. Peter explicitly says he had her cuz he wanted her to be like Miles. But he likely wouldn’t have had her if not for miles BEING Spider-Man and getting bit. Therefore making MayDay a break in the canon yet Peter’s universe is fine, another hole in Miguel’s logic

@MerajKhan-gd2bs

6 ай бұрын

Suit in spider's anime universe that got destroyed in first movie

@eglol

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, but it's not a huge canon thing.... Or wait, maybe it kinda is? Since that Peter met Miles, he turned his life around. That wasn't supposed to happen in the canon, right?

@seanpariser7300

6 ай бұрын

It’s a hard claim because Sony could just say Spiderman is suppose to have kids and part of the cannon. The motivation doesn’t really change things.

@Mystic.stories

6 ай бұрын

Oh, so one time it wasn’t a spider bite one time a bunch of spiders eat peter parker, and the spiders became Peter Parker so it doesn’t always have to be a spider bite. You have to be spider related just a quick note.😂

@iamrosemist5630

6 ай бұрын

I just realized that the punk-spider called the baby an anarchist and approved of it. So did he know? He'd also been trying to prevent Miles from seeing Miguel and saying things like "we don't follow orders". I'm curious about his world.

Honestly, i'm fascinated with how Miguel's motivations are so intrinsically linked to fear. He has this deep grief, guilt, and anxiety from destroying the world that he was happy in- and then to deal with and avoid future instances of similar trauma, his brain found what it thought was the most probably cause and he became hellbent on seeing to it that it never came to fruition again. Miguel's character is one of an obsession with maintaining control in order to cope with the horrifying events that he witnessed and likely blames himself for. It makes him simultaneously a deeply sympathetic antagonist, and a deeply infuriating one- because his drive is one that's so illogical and narrow sighted, but extremely relatable and frightening for an audience to imagine experiencing.

@mulisagaming7916

6 ай бұрын

I completely agree

@PsychicSiren7

6 ай бұрын

I agree. He needs therapy. And a lot of it. I don't know if that makes him a "Bad Guy" though? I just think he's traumatized and needs help. There's a difference between an antagonist and villain, and Miguel O'Hara seems to fall into the "antagonist" catagory for me. He's not Evil. He's just trying to a good thing in his view, for the wrong reasons, and trauma and what must be a MOUNTAINLOAD of PTSD are obscuring his judgement.

@eglol

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, it's pretty interesting!

@dereklouther9372

6 ай бұрын

⁠@@PsychicSiren7he’s pretty evil He literally used Thanos Logic like everyone else did during the thanos run of the MCU and tried to justify it to miles cuz He gave up trying to find a reason

@PsychicSiren7

6 ай бұрын

@@dereklouther9372 Miguel watched not only his alternate universe daughter, but an entire Dimension collapse around him. And the entire dimension, including the planets, the earth, every life that could have existed there doesn't exist anymore because of what he did. (This is what Miguel believes.) So in his grief, he comes up with that theory because he wants to ease the guilt on his conscience, Because he believes that he's responsible for wiping out an entire dimension of people and sentient lifeforms. He's probably got a lot of ptsd, trauma, survivor's guilt, and who knows what else under his belt. So when Miles comes up and basically throws it in his face that " I'm going to do what you couldn't, I'm going to change Fate and save the person that means the most to me", all Miguel can hear is that this kid isn't listening to his experience and is continually insisting that he can do what Miguel couldn't, and change the fate of how these things are supposed to work. This doesn't fly. Miguel sincerely believes that what miles is going to do will wipe out his universe and all sentient life within it. And while the chase scene might have been a bit of an overreaction, Miguel did it try to talk miles down before throwing the force field at him. I still believe that almost all of the spider people in the spider-verse movies need some sort of therapy, but this just proves my hypothesis that Miguel O'Hara needs therapy the most out of all of them. Not only because of his unique issues in the comics, but also could stem from his feelings of inferiority, because he believes that he's not a true Spider-Man due to him not having the same origin story. But to answer your original question, I don't find Miguel O'Hara evil. He's just someone who's been slotted into the category of antagonist. If anything Miles should fear the Spot more because at their core, Miguel and the Spider Society are still spider people and stand for the values that Spider-Man stands for, while Spot has promised to take everything from Miles, and hasn't hesitated to cause damage. While Spot won't hesitate to cause damage, Miguel is trying to fix things, he's just trying to fix things from a flawed viewpoint and perspective of how things should go.

The fact that this multiverse movie had more madness than the actual multiverse of madness is madness

@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375

11 ай бұрын

Multiverse of Madness was a crap movie and you can't change my mind

@Brodieee12890

11 ай бұрын

Godzilla had a stroke trying to read this and died

@Just_Some_Gal

11 ай бұрын

Hey Mozart, I'm a huge fan

@derrickdaniels3955

11 ай бұрын

I thought it was good

@basically_boring

11 ай бұрын

now this is an avengers level threat

I'm surprised he didn't mention Gwen Stacy's dad breaking canon by quitting his job. It's another knock on Miguel's canon theory, but it also pushed Gwen to realize the error of her and Miguel's ways and try to help/join miles

@LetsPlay4Free

11 ай бұрын

The "police captain close to spiderman" does not technically has be her dad though

@gamingtiger31

11 ай бұрын

EXACTLY

@movienerd9362

11 ай бұрын

But also by removing a Spider-person from their universe doesn't that cause problems because now theres no spider-person in the universe. Assuming that one big canon event is that there's a spider-person.

@Galaxy-rj1kj

11 ай бұрын

@@movienerd9362not at all Miguel is just fucking lying

@kittyself

11 ай бұрын

@@LetsPlay4Freebut she doesnt have anyone else in her life that is a police captain, so i feel like its heavily implied that it was supposed to be her father

I feel that Miguel's Timewatches have some sort of protection against causing incursions, so that anyone wearing one isn't a threat to the stability of that universe. Case in Point: Miguel's own universe, with *HUNDREDS* of alternate versions of Spiderman just chilling there hasn't had any incursions.

@Lucia-Katuendji

5 ай бұрын

so the spot has tht same protection as a add on to his powers and is noone gonna mention tht girl tht the scarlet witch was trying to kil whos powers are MULTIVERSAL TELEPORTATION

@MasterTMO

5 ай бұрын

@@Lucia-Katuendji Actually, we don't know if Spot has that protection or not. After all, that might have been an incursion after his jump into Spiderman India's world. I would assume America Chavez has some sort of protection built in to her teleport as well, since she's not apparently leaving wakes of destruction behind her. It's possible the mechanism used to do the teleportation is important - some are more destabilizing than others.

@evanholloway1692

4 ай бұрын

⁠​⁠@@MasterTMOwell he won’t have to worry, because since he merged with the collider from Pavitr’s dimension, he became almost like a God. And that’s going to destroy every canon in the multiverse unless he is stopped, if he isn’t, this could be the end of all Spider Man everywhere all together.

@Pranksterpants1

3 ай бұрын

@@MasterTMO Feels great knowing that I’m not the only one who subscribes to that theory that Incursions can be prevented in the MCU’s portions of the Multiverse if you have the right protections. Now that I think about it, the theory that I had about Doctor Strange and Scarlet Witch being unable to cause Incursions as a result of their inter dimensional (or, perhaps more accurately, interplanar) travel spells kinda doesn’t really work because Sinister Strange and 838 Strange exist.

@heyman666

2 ай бұрын

This theory has flaws

I found it interesting that Penii Parker was in the sequel. Miguel's universe was set in 2099 but Penii is from 3145 so if Miguel's theories are true than as long as Penni exists, the canon is still intact. She's from a different dimension but from the future in any dimension she shows up in.

@Cera_01

6 ай бұрын

I mean just because she's from 3145 doesnt mean that someone couldnt have started the universal unravelling

@MyNameBeeKayy

6 ай бұрын

@@Cera_01 true but realistically she would be the first the be affected. Change the past, change the future. If that makes sense

@5vyn

4 ай бұрын

​@@MyNameBeeKayychanging the past doesn't change the future, it just creates an alternate timeline extruding from the sacred timelinelike the tva feared of.

@MyNameBeeKayy

4 ай бұрын

@@5vyn that doesn't apply in the spider verse since there can only be one variant of each spider, they consistently interfere in separate dimensions, and just about none of them are NOT parallel in time. They meet outside the confines of their time periods and dimensions. That's an MCU concept and I'm glad it doesn't bleed over. Plus the fact that it's a character verse and not a timeline or universe kinda implies that each spider is already an alternate "branch reality" from the original human being but by a superpower inducing spider. Which is why it's represented by a web and not a stream or tree. They're supposed to meet each other and be part or an interconnected story

Something that surprisingly few people seem to notice is that the rubble in Mumbattan was already covered in this spreading dark matter even before the canon event happened. The dark hole is 100% the Spot's fault and the canon event just happened to coincide

@saucevc8353

11 ай бұрын

I wouldn't say no one noticed, Miles himself noticed in the movie. When Miguel tries to pin the blame for the incident on Miles breaking a canon event, Miles rightly points out that it was Spot's fault.

@saucevc8353

11 ай бұрын

@@ramonandrajo6348 Woke? Lmao you people are really triggered by anything. What exactly makes the movie woke?

@ramonandrajo6348

11 ай бұрын

@@saucevc8353 Demasculinized male characters, female empowerment and/or mistreatment of male characters based on the third wave feminist agenda, false "diversity", and so on.

@Sarlasmancranmaji

11 ай бұрын

​@@ramonandrajo6348 we are woke ourselves, shut up.

@SeanGamePlay1

11 ай бұрын

but it didnt glitch before the canon event was broken

people fail to mention how Miguel’s story of replacing his dead self to be with a happy family is literally the parallel of Wanda’s plotline in Multiverse of Madness

@lodestar3984

10 ай бұрын

And literally did it better

@clarkstrange2142

10 ай бұрын

@@lodestar3984 Actually speaking the truth rn

@sullyschwartz2365

10 ай бұрын

@lodestar3984 Because they didn't try to waste an entire show just to set him up as an antagonist. Also didn't try to make him sympathetic. Also had him acknowledge how he was wrong for his actions.

@lodestar3984

10 ай бұрын

@@sullyschwartz2365 Exactly. He was a much less fractured character than Wanda, since he was new. If not for Wandavision, I think Wanda would have been much more interesting.

@onion8761

10 ай бұрын

I also think its really similar to Kingpins character.

I actually just realized that the reason Miguel O Hara was “breaking” the canon is because him dying in an alternate universe was that universes uncle Ben moment. If you look at the scene where he dies it is animated in a comic book form like the canon events and it is extremely similar to uncle bens death.

@voidatethesun

4 ай бұрын

iirc gabriela was supposed to become spiderwoman after his death too

That prowler twist in the end was crazy , I loved it , it was different and even though you started to see it coming it was still “shocking”

It's funny how people have missed that every other spiderman is bit by a spider, but Miguel wasn't. He was gene sliced with one to cure a drug addiction. He is the most different spiderman (fangs, claws, altered vision, no web crawling, organic webs, and no spider sense) yet attacks Miles for not being like the other spidermen.

@thegrandatm1844

11 ай бұрын

Spider ham wasn’t either

@azazelvr946

11 ай бұрын

spider-racism

@navymalfunction9710

11 ай бұрын

lol yeah when i watched the movie im confuse about that, mainly because of the spider sense

@secondcoming2783

11 ай бұрын

​@@thegrandatm1844at least he got bitten by something

@ethai1

11 ай бұрын

Was it explained in the film, or is this from the comics?

You're not wrong about the audio mixing

@MOBILEHUB7

11 ай бұрын

Nice svryva

@lavanyaandol284

11 ай бұрын

👍

@AHSiyam-mb7th

11 ай бұрын

👍👍

@AHSiyam-mb7th

11 ай бұрын

👍👍

@mantashaparween785

11 ай бұрын

Nice

If you pay attention Miguel’s universe is destroyed in the same polygonal shapes he uses for his suit. Mumbatton is being destroyed by the spot that the Spot generated with the super collider. Dr Strange destroyed his with the mirror universe. So it seems that the incursions seem to be more a factor on what system is used to universe hop. And at least Miguel is cleaning up the villain incursions that are happening in other universes to try and prevent incursions there. I just think his obsession with cannon events is misplaced. Remember it’s not Miles’ fault he got bit, it wasn’t his collider experiment, and he wasn’t actively trying to be Spider-Man.

I feel like another MASSIVE plot hole in the movie is that Miguel himself is a walking break of the cannon. He was never bitten by a spider, in his story he was genetically altered into a Spiderman. And because he has already become a Spiderman he with therefore never be bitten. He is the literal product of breaking the very first rule of the cannon and he and his universe is perfectly fine.

@joaoandrade5301

5 ай бұрын

thats not a plot hole, thats the whole point of the movie. miguel is wrong

Fun fact, the guy who made Spiderman Into the Spider-verse scenes out of Legos was so good, the director contacted him to create a scene for Lego Spiderman's universe. Dude isn't finished Highschool. I give mad respect to him.

@supergamerconnor4355

10 ай бұрын

I think I actually saw his recreation of Leap Of Faith, although I didn't know he made more scenes.

@artechstorm

10 ай бұрын

@@supergamerconnor4355 I think at the time of his last episode or before that, he was making the lego scene for Across the Spider-verse.

@scratchgaming111

9 ай бұрын

@@artechstorm that guy was only a teenager 😀

@artechstorm

9 ай бұрын

@@scratchgaming111 yeah. Respect to him

@thatguysanimation

9 ай бұрын

The guy is 14, I feel like trash

If Miles isn’t “supposed” to be spider man, then maybe canon events won’t be the same for him and won’t have the same repercussions. if that is the case, the writers would be able to highlight miles’s ability to literally write his own story as he does not have to live by the rules of the other spiders’ lives, which could happen in beyond the spider verse

@FappityFappityFap

11 ай бұрын

basically hes a non-temporal being, detached from the laws of time and space and able to do anything without consequence to the fabric of the multiverse. coincidentally, all of these incursion events could literally have been spots doing this whole time.

@jrbudoybudoy

11 ай бұрын

He isn't the correct miles that was bitten. It was supposed to be Earth - 42 Miles.

@davidsmith3687

11 ай бұрын

That still should mean Earth 42 and his still should been wiped if it's truly canon events surrounding specific spider people, so I still think the incursions make more sense. And there's a LOT of universes: not so good guy Spider-people, vastly different lore, etc. The whole point of timelines and multiverse is the infinite possibilities, paths, etc. So it would make sense that two universes that weren't supposed to meet getting crossed into causing the problem a good origin. My question is why didn't the other multiverse events cause glitching effects? Does magic protect them where tech doesn't unassisted? Albeit not forever or at least repeated travel still building up to a problem if the person themselves is fine (travel destabilizes, and foreign universe presence makes it worse over time, aka it's not just you glitching it's also the world around you even on micro levels that could spread especially if you're subatomic particles get scattered everywhere).

@jrbudoybudoy

11 ай бұрын

@@davidsmith3687 Maybe Miles didn't glitch out because the Spider that bit him is from that Earth originally

@davidsmith3687

11 ай бұрын

@@jrbudoybudoy if it was canon events, not having a Spider-Man should've ended world 42 and many things should've ended Miles's world: the original dying, having two Spider-people even if temporary, etc. Just shows that it's not canon events, because you could drag in the game lore with Miles and Peter too whom didn't have a multiverse spider but new experimental ones. Then there's the fact Miles DID glitch in Earth 42 where the spider came from, and the spider glitched in the first movie on his earth.

Still gotta feel for Miguel, if he's right in his theory or not we'll just have to wait but seeing him go from a happy go lucky guy to a hardened man, burdened with even more responsibility than most Spider people trying to keep it together is just sad. He's obviously traumatized by his actions and being the cause of an entire universe collapse with an unfathomable amount of death on his hands isn't something anyone should be able to comprehend.

Unfortunately Matpat I must correct you. Miles dad isn't about to be made captain of the NYPD. He's going to be captain of the PDNY

@sanjanaakotyada4753

2 ай бұрын

wha- oh is it like non-violation measures or smth like that?

@4ncientGu150

2 ай бұрын

@@sanjanaakotyada4753 No, it's just a joke showcasing how Miles world is a step left. Instead of the police being the NYPD (New York Police Department) it's instead the PDNY (Police Department of New York).

The “anyone can be Spider-Man” is exactly why Stan Lee originally gave Spider-Man a full-cover mask and suit. That’s one of the primary lessons of Spider-Man, so it’s likely to be correct.

@aston4763

11 ай бұрын

it wasnt the original idea but he was glad it happened. stop lying

@FruityGroovy

11 ай бұрын

Well, no, that's not originally why Stan or Steve Ditko have included the mask. Stan fully admits it was not intentional, but it's a great happy accident in retrospect.

@stevekirkpatrick1612

11 ай бұрын

I wonder if one of the background easter egg characters for the next one will be Man-Spider. From a universe of arachnids where a researcher is bitten by a tiny radioactive human.

@flamesofchaos13

11 ай бұрын

@@aston4763 More people need to learn from Stan once your product and character is out there in the public it can change and adapt...It's not something to fear or hate but to love that people loved your character and story so much they wanted to improve, add, critique and copy it. It's literally the very example of something becoming beloved and becoming more than the sum of it's parts into a legend.

@ramonandrajo6348

11 ай бұрын

A shame that the movie is w@ke.

Matpat's the kind of guy who can nail any innocent superhero with 37 Federal charges

@h0m3st4r

11 ай бұрын

​@@LiIDruk Enough of your lies, Shocky x Sparky. Now, get off of KZread and take your spam bots with you.

@gameknightplays1211

11 ай бұрын

True

@yauchikin

11 ай бұрын

@@h0m3st4ryeah

@RyanSoltani

11 ай бұрын

A master of his craft

@jaysoncampos2446

11 ай бұрын

How to sum up MatPat in one sentence.

One major issue I’m glad MatPat pointed out, Miguel caused an incursion in the 2nd universe likely because Spider-Man already existed. He also implies the cannon event has to be a police captains death. Gwen’s universe, let alone spider rex disprove that. Miles can exist in both bc like venom, the earth 42 spider is only part of him. In mumbaihattan the universe collapse doesn’t look anything like that Miguel caused either. It looks like the spot is just attacking the city center

MatPat, this is a very good theory and it explains a lot but you forgot about how the first movie in this franchise litteraly has at least 6 spiderman inside Miles realm at the same time for a pretty long time too. If that is so, why would mile's realm still be here?

@ThatComputerGuyRyan

6 ай бұрын

The only real impact they left was fighting the villains. They didn't cause much damage and their glitches weren't forcefully stopped. Miles is really the only one that did any important stuff there and the collider may have had an impact on the chance of an incursion

@user-lg4uk2hf8d

6 ай бұрын

@@ThatComputerGuyRyan Good point, but your forgetting in the other movies, the collective were afraid of Dr strange's very existence, giving us the impressions that incursions are pretty delicate. Also, they did fight the big boss guy, which should count as an action

@UrMentalHealth

5 ай бұрын

Maybe the more they play with multiverses the less stable they are?

@danielloewen2857

5 ай бұрын

My personal theory is that their arrival was a Canon event, and Miguel isn't looking at the whole picture, because there are Canon events caused by anomolies

@user-lg4uk2hf8d

5 ай бұрын

@@danielloewen2857 That is also a good theory. However, that just defeats the whole definition of "canon events". It is very rare for a universe to be invaded by three spidermans who are not local, which means that canon events aren't even canon events anymore

another point against "canon events" is that not every spiderman is bit by a spider. In across the spiderverse itself, Pavitr Prabhakar is never bit by a spider. A shaman connects him to a spider god that gives him the powers directly, and in the comics Mayday Parker inherits her powers, but never gets bit either. More so, the japanese version of spiderman that Mat mentions, Takuya Yamashiro, is given his powers in the form of a spider bracelet an spider extract following his father's death. and he, too, never gets bitten.

@davidbjacobs3598

11 ай бұрын

Miguel, Jess, and Ben Reilly (all in this movie) were also never bitten. I don't remember if Peni was bitten or not. Spider-Ham was a spider who was bitten by a radioactive pig.

@Suicdar

11 ай бұрын

@@JackHaIrowjust stop living.

@TiniTiller

11 ай бұрын

im also 90% sure that miguel got his powers from alchemax and not a spider, so unless there was another spider before him, his universe should be gone.

@sr_aron

11 ай бұрын

@@TiniTillerCorrect. He’s literally part spider, hence the claws, fangs, enhanced eye senses and no spider sense

@juliendimattia8871

11 ай бұрын

@@TiniTiller There usually is a 1960-2020 or whatever current year spider man that's a part of history in spiderman 2099 universes from what I've heard

The biggest problem I see with this theory is if having Spider-Men from different universes puts you at a higher risk of having an incursion, how in the world is Miguel's world not in complete and utter chaos considering they have thousands of different Spider-Men there?

@mexicantoer9456

11 ай бұрын

TRUE

@rohithdhar7755

11 ай бұрын

Not only that. But also Mattpat clearly misremembers what was causing incursions in Multiverse of Madness. What caused incursions wasn’t a person coming into another universe. Instead, it’s someone constantly and excessively dreamwalking into into their counterpart’s head in another universe. The reason being is that the film reveals that people’s dreams are actually events that a counterpart of theirs are experiencing and they are viewing in their subconscious REM sleep. In 838 Strange and 616 Wanda constantly dreamwalking, the boundaries of the universes are significantly eroded by them consciously inhabiting the body of their counterpart in another universe for a long period of time. That’s why 838 Dr. Strange mentions to the Illuminati that he caused an incursion when he’s “dreamwalking.” The fact that dreamwalking is a dangerous thing to do is further emphasized by 616 Dr. Strange inhabiting the corpse of Defender Strange and coming to Wundagore where Wanda calls him a hypocrite. It’s dreamwalking that is causing incursions rather than people stepping into universes.

@penguinchickie

11 ай бұрын

thats what i was thinking like if incursions are the case then why hasnt their spiderman-filled world not blown up yet

@davidobright9468

11 ай бұрын

@@rohithdhar7755 Yeah thats what i really dont like about this theory, but I have another thought that im really surprised that nobody has mentioned. In the show What If, we see Dr. Strange try his best to break an absolute point in time, the success of which causes the universe he lived in to vanish. Vanishing makes more sense than an incursion because it's confirmed that's what happened to the world that Miguel went to. The point that I really want to make is the fact that, in both stories, a super hero tries to do something to change the thing that drove them into being a super hero. Miguel would have stopped being spider man and Dr Strange would have never become the Sorcerer Supreme. This doesn't explain the hole created in the universe that Indian spider-man was in, but I think it's really worth noting. Also the containment fields used to hold prisoners, rifts, etc, look very very similar to the bubble that the What If Dr. Strange ends the episode in.

@LucidTak3n

11 ай бұрын

so glad someone pointed that out

0:25 dam he was right that does slap

I think this was also backed up by Hobie leaving Miles a note at the end saying he was going to help him (presumably in the next movie). Sure, this could be explained by his general antiestablisment ideals, but he's been working with the spider society up until now. This tells me he joined to investigate their values and if what they were doing was actually benefitting people, and he has information to help miles that hes learned through working there

I think it’s strange that Miguel blames miles because KINGPIN was the one starting the whole mess in the first place.

@LucarioNinja92

10 ай бұрын

If I remember correctly, wasn't it also The Spot who technically started this mess in the first place? He brought the 42 spider into Mile's world which it turn created the chain of dominoes that lead up to all of this. Spiderman didn't really create the Spot, Spot created himself by making a new Spiderman.

@atilacirano5905

10 ай бұрын

Miguel is probably jealous of Miles because he is ok "being an anomaly" while Miguel couldn't all these "canon events" are bull, Miguel didn't disrupt that when he pulled a Rick and the spider 42 was going to be the second spider event for Peter from Miles universe

@jackcashcow

9 ай бұрын

@LucarioNinja92 Certainly you are right but, Miguel O'Hara started telling Miles that he wasn't supposed to be bitten and become Spider-Man but Dr. Jonathon (The Spot) was the one bringing Earth-42 Spider to Earth-1610 causing Miles Morales being bitten and becoming the anomaly of Spider-Man, and it wasn't Miles' fault cause then he wouldn't be able to get his knowledge all about the canon-events. Technically from another universe, Earth-42 Miles Morales became the prowler but falls for Spider-Man, and he's not suppose to be bitten either from that universe if Dr. Jonathon (The Spot) brought the spider and chose to bit Miles in Earth-1610. From the conclusion: Miles Morales from Earth-1610 deserved to be Spider-Man, Miguel O'Hara started arguing Miles Morales on what Spot did to him, and what Wilson Fisk did with the collider causing some spider-people being brought from another dimensions. Miguel O'Hara started acting hostile against Gwen Stacy for whatever Jessica/Lyla did with the portal, and she did nothing at all if Miles followed her through the portal where Jessica/Lyla opened. Before Peter Parker died in Earth-1610, he started insisting Miles on what he needs to do with the goober, and in the future, Miles Morales saved the day against the collider and Kingpin, and sending every spider-people back to their homes. (In Spider-Man: ITSV, Miles told Peter that he doesn't want become one, but Peter replied to Miles that there wouldn't be any choices but he'll go through his head.) Edited: Spot was the one making Earth-1610 Miles Morales an anomaly. And Miguel O'Hara should've come there and help Miles Morales to get rid of his nemesis.

@R0Kdarock

9 ай бұрын

​@@LucarioNinja92if you are saying it like that why couldn't spots mother be the one who started it all

@guyschill2059

9 ай бұрын

Well there's a reason he didn't tell miles in the first place, he only told him after he completely lost his cool

Mayday is also a big factor as to why Miguel's theory doesn't seem entirely correct. In the movie, Peter B tells Miles that the WHOLE reason that he had Mayday was because of Miles. But Peter was never supposed to meet Miles, according to Miguel's timeline he was supposed to be a miserable sad-sack grieving in his apartment. It's because of Miles, who is an "anomaly" to Miguel, that Mayday exists. So, theoretically, Mayday even being BORN should've absolutely obliterated Peter's universe, but it didn't.

@Mediados

11 ай бұрын

Miguel has to believe his theory is correct, he found closure with the fact that he caused the death of his family. If Miles proves his conclusion wrong, his entire operation loses its meaning.

@Brasswatchman

11 ай бұрын

This. This exactly.

@Brasswatchman

11 ай бұрын

​@@Mediados Exactly. Which is something they'll have to help Miguel get past.

@shadowwriter4538

11 ай бұрын

One could argue that Mayday would have probably been born anyway; it's possible Peter B might have gotten his life back together later had he not met Miles but that's probably not the exact case.

@Brasswatchman

11 ай бұрын

@@shadowwriter4538 Yeah, but by the same token, Original 1610 Spider-Man could've wound up dead with or without Miles there in the first movie. One can't say for sure he screwed up fate in one place, but was totally unnecessary in the other. The causal chain cuts both ways, you know?

In the movie, we see Miguel getting frustrated with Miles for “disturbing the cannon.” We’ve already had multiple Spider-Man trilogies with similar story lines. With that in mind, maybe Miles’s purpose as far as the audience is concerned is to open up possibilities for new stories to be created in the future.

I actually love this theory because I think this theory would make miles even more of a hero, technically saving his entire universe by taking you the mantle of Spiderman after the spider from another dimension indirectly got peter Parker killed and therefore stopping it from having a truly huge effect on his universes canon

I cannot tell you how much pain I felt when the “to be continued” came up on the screen at the cinema. I was so sad. I GOTTA WAIT A WHOLE NOTHER YEAR FOR THE NEXT PART!!

@ryanRosenblatt

9 ай бұрын

Now you have to wait like 3 to 5 years

@ryanRosenblatt

9 ай бұрын

@@shruqabdullah5036 Have you not heard it is delayed and we have no idea when it comes out it is at minimum that not coming out until early 2025 because we know Sony movies coming out in 2024 so it is definitely not coming out in 2024. I know it sucks

@ryanRosenblatt

9 ай бұрын

@@shruqabdullah5036 yeah it was confirmed in a tweet that Sony made about the time line of when the movies come out.

@eglol

6 ай бұрын

It's only supposed to be a year it's fine 😊 my family was bummed but personally I'm very satisfied. Instead of being sad that I can't see the next part now, I'm so happy with the two hours we got this year and I'm super excited for the next movie! Hopefully we will be able to see it soonish!

@Duolingo3450

6 ай бұрын

​@ryanRosenblatt I didn't realise it was delayed that long. Imma go cry now

The dark matter in mumbatten is definitely spot considering it 1) looks and acts different than when Miguel’s world fell apart 2) happened immediately, whereas Miguel’s probably took some time

@szymon2109

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, but all those "emergency" spidermen that came to control this dark matter and Miguel himself talked like they seen it way before Spot became a threat. Plus, they had equipment to control this matter, and they knew how to use it.

@cirnotheicefairy3609

11 ай бұрын

@@szymon2109 because Spot's dark matter is still dark matter. With the appropriate technology, it can still be reversed, not to mention dark matter being what it is, means it is very much obvious what it is. Unlike how Miguel's world fell apart, it glitched like the time the Collider first fired back in the first Spider-Verse movie. Anyway.. Spot himself is out there somewhere in the multiverse now, plotting to do something with all that dark matter he's amassed, something to do with Miles specifically, and he's pretty much a multiversal threat now.

@danisdcpdiary

11 ай бұрын

@@szymon2109Yeah but the canon events are pretty arbitrary if you really think about it and in the comics there are actually characters who are meant to hold the spiderverse together so it’s clearly not Miguel’s job. It’s heavily implied Miguel is a synthetic Spider-Man. So even the first canon event, the one that makes Spider-Man “Spider-Man” doesn’t even happen to all of them. For example, Spider-Man India was given his powers by a shaman. And Spider-Punk wasn’t close with the police, he was the one who k*lled the police force in his universe because it was an authoritarian police state. Miguel is literally just acting based on his own traumatic experience. Edit: Also that tech to control the dark matter could have come from two places. Both of which prove it may not have even existed and they created it on the fly. 1) Every universe with an Alchemax was experimenting with dark matter as supported by the Spot using interdemensional travel to go to Alchemax and increase his power (which is multiversal travel using dark matter) so they took it from Alchemax. Or 2) They synthesized it using tech they already had which is supported by Spider-Punk creating his own multiversal travel watch from parts he took in Nueva York’s Spider-Man HQ.

@drawingbanana8158

11 ай бұрын

this is exactly what I was thinking, especially since the simulation of the "canon event" Miguel experienced has a different look to how it appears when we presumably see it happen with Pavitr's universe

@winnie3624

11 ай бұрын

THATS WHAT I WAS GONNA SAYYYYY. like what if since miles did it it was different and all that matter was was spot opening another portal on accident to let more villains through.

I'm 99% certain that Miguel's reasoning is SUPPOSED to feel kind of off... On the one hand, he might be right. On the other, he's almost definitely not. Whether its because he's lying or because he doesn't know the full truth, we don't really know yet. But I'm definitely siding with Miles on this one.

Remember spider pig? He bit a radioactive spider. It didn't bit him

I feel like this is why Hobie was the best character in the movie. He warned Miles about Miguel and the spider society, bailed on them the moment they got all anti freedom, and builds the watch which will (probably) let Gwen find Miles and eventually stop Spot

@d00mshr00med

11 ай бұрын

I don’t think Hobie was supposed to be totally correct in his reaction to the situation. His game is anarchy. His decision to go against Miguel wasn’t made out of care for human life, but for his own personal entertainment. Don’t get me wrong, that actually makes him a very interesting character, but I don’t think he’s as good of a person as you may think.

@Kor06.

11 ай бұрын

@@d00mshr00med you're completely wrong

@devofficialchannel

11 ай бұрын

I just like that Hobie was set up to be this "rival" for Miles in a "love triangle" only for the film to toss it away to show that he DOES care for Miles. And given his background as an anarchist living in an authoritarian version of the UK, it is understandable why he wouldn't give in to the Spider-Society's mindset.

@caramelfrappe402

11 ай бұрын

@@devofficialchannel If you think about it, felt like the movie was trying to make Hobie a trope / love triangle as some Spider-Man comics / shows do have that going on with characters involving Gwyn or his other love interests, but our rebel is such a strong believer in going against the system he broke away from that and helped Miles out instead. Dude is awesome.

@ColdNorth0628

11 ай бұрын

@@Kor06. he himself says he is not a hero cause thats not a term he wants to go by.

There's a couple of other parts in Across that disprove Canon Events that I'm surprised Mat didn't go over. 1. The hole in Pavitr Prabhakar's dimension was caused the Spot and the collider, Miguel blaming Miles for breaking the canon and causing that was just coincidence. 2. At the end of the movie, Gwen's dad (Captain Stacy) is revealed to have quit his job and his universe isn't destroyed, which is the biggest and most explicit clue that Miguel is wrong. 3. This one is slightly less obvious and not confirmed, but a person accidently being bit by a spider to become Spider-Man can't be a Canon Event, since Miguel himself wasn't, at least in the comics, he was purposely recreating the powers of the original Spider-Man in his universe, so the idea that there can't be more than one Spider-person in one universe is also wrong.

@sdbzfan1

11 ай бұрын

plus its not like Miles wanted to be spiderman, he got bit because Spot brought a spider from a different dimension to that universe, plus the encursion thing makes sense as any spiderperson in the wrong universe without a bracelet starts to glitch out

@maddoxle276

11 ай бұрын

Since Gwen came from another universe how is her falling for miles and dying because of it a canon event, since there was no way of them meeting without kingpin opening the portals and stuff

@zayd4078

11 ай бұрын

Taking into account Mat's theories and what you said in number 2, if Miguel is 100% right, Gwen's world/universe would've gone poof before she even leaps off her window. 🤔🤣

@protovision7040

11 ай бұрын

Also meows morales exists

@toshironikko

11 ай бұрын

My problem with this incursion theory is the spider society has hundreds of ppl from different universes in one universe so if an incursion was going to happen it would probably be in that universe

I think that miles' universe did a self correction type thing like matpat said. Due to there being a second Spider-Man, the universe shifted what it's canon is and has to be. Meanwhile Pavitir's universe was just fine until a canon event dmwas disrupted. Not giving the universe time to correct itself.

The only issue Iam facing to understand about this theory is that as you mentions over at 14:30 "no extra dimensional visitors have spent any significant time there", wouldn't miguel's universe collapse instantly due to soo many different realities spidermans are at one location. Even tho in the movie they reference them as "part time" spiderman, they still collectively spending over hundreds of hours in miguel's universe.

I think the main message of the Spiderverse sequels are directed to future writers of the Spiderman IP not just the audience. "You don't need to follow a set of rules of what should or shouldn't happen. Write your own story." Because at the end of the day, "canon events" are whatever the writer deems to be canon (or what the executives want). There are no hard press rules, just write what you want and keep your love of doing it.

@johnnygyro2295

11 ай бұрын

Amen to that. In a nigh infinite multiverse, there are nigh infinite possibilities.

@jbutarbutar1817

11 ай бұрын

​@@ramonandrajo6348ah yes i "wake" movie, if you wanna say woke you should not use the instagram symbol.

@notmchlfx

11 ай бұрын

@@ramonandrajo6348It IS woke, Hobie’s few lines are woke af, if you’re a bootlicking cuck it might offend you

@maadtee6281

11 ай бұрын

To bad Miles will lose his mother in this look at her hairstyle

@ramonandrajo6348

11 ай бұрын

@@jbutarbutar1817 KZread, dude, KZread. ;)

I think one potential flaw with the theory involving incursions is that the entire spider society exists on one earth, Miguel's earth. If incursions were the real threat, then his earth would've surely collapsed long ago with all the spider ppl constantly existing on his plane. Perhaps it has something to do with the devices on their arms which prevents this, I'm not sure.

@eliasbranch5383

11 ай бұрын

That's what I thought. in the first movie they call traveling. through the Spiderverse an "aunotomous multiverse jump." I think that means that they act seperate from their universe, with the device.

@yonatantapiro

11 ай бұрын

agree with ya, but i thought bout it for a bit... most of the those spider ppl are inhabiting miguel's universe for not more than a day i guess, we havent any spider dorms or any of the other spider ppl being there for too long, propably each spider is going by, taking a task, grabbing a few more spidies and head out to the mission and report back to the HQ. maybe the incursions require for people from other universes to stay there for the long run, like migeul had with his family (it could have been years man who knows)

@mr.cookiecutter

11 ай бұрын

Yeah I think it's the devices. Every time we see an incursion there was someone without a device. Miles didn't have one when he saved the Indian police captain. I think that that might be the trick, and Miguel is going to be so mad when he discovers that he had the tech to avoid the problem the whole time.

@simeonbachev5323

11 ай бұрын

@@mr.cookiecutter the problem is that when Miguel went to the universe where he had a family he had the device since he wasn't glitching out while he was there. Meaning that the devices can't prevent it.

@shreyaskumar7398

11 ай бұрын

@simeonbachev5323 yeah thats what I was thinking, perhaps the devices just delay it, I really don't know

My theory is that miles can save his dad without causing a canon event because if he was an anomaly he was never supposed to exist and neither was his story in the Spiderverse just like his teacher said his story is blank, he can do whatever he wants in it. His own thing

Here’s my “add-on” to your theory: The way that things travel to other universes has something to do with the incursions. In Multiverse of Madness, Strange is taken to other universes by America. Wanda takes control of herself in the universe she wants to go to. Those can cause incursions. In Across the Spider-Verse, the ones in the Spider Society have “day passes” or they have “watches” (or whatever they actually are) to travel to other universes. Those don’t cause incursions. Miguel probably used a different method to travel to the universe where he is dead, causing an incursion. The “day passes” and “watches” stop incursions from happening.

@UPFSonic

9 ай бұрын

For an incursion to happen in Mumbattan, Miles would have needed to do something that “left a large footprint behind” on the universe, which isn’t exactly defined. If Miles saving a life leaves a footprint behind, that hole in Mumbattan is the start of an incursion. If it isn’t leaving a footprint behind, then it’s the Spot’s “holes”.

@UPFSonic

9 ай бұрын

The “watches” (or whatever you want to call them) have a list of things that are pre-labeled as “canon events”. That’s why they say “Canon Event Disrupted”.

Miles's dynamic with O'Hara is fascinating, considering their tense relationship is formed exclusively by outside factors. Yet, both are driven by something personal (Miles with his father, Miguel with his lost daughter). Considering where both end up with the Spot, I can't wait to see that payoff in Beyond The Spider-Verse.

@IdentifiantE.S

11 ай бұрын

@@LiIDruk​​⁠ You put it 2 times to really show that you agree ? 😅

@destroyer99612

11 ай бұрын

​@@IdentifiantE.Sso what

@V0R1EXGamer

11 ай бұрын

@@IdentifiantE.S its a bot

@googoogaga7986

11 ай бұрын

I think they’re gonna be forced into being allies, and then hopefully they’ll have character development because of each other’s point of view and influence

my biggest issue with this is the spider society itself. hundreds, possibly thousands of spider people are occupying miguel’s world and not a single incursion has happened with them. if one single miguel simply living life in a different world is enough to destroy that world, shouldn’t the spider society coming together completely destroy the entire multiverse?

@JS-td7dg

11 ай бұрын

That's a doubt I also had with this theory but tbh I'm sure the writers would've thought about this if it was actually the case. So I don't think this theory is true, but it makes a mot of sense (beside the spider society in 1 dimension)

@timmcguire653

11 ай бұрын

My guess is they built it in an incurred universe kinda like evil doctor strange in MoM they can’t cause an incursion because the universe is alread incurred

@mumpygronk2448

11 ай бұрын

@@timmcguire653 that would be a good explanation if there weren’t civilians living in nueva york (miguel’s new york). since incursion wipe out the people native to their earth, these people can’t be civilians of an earth that experienced an incursion since they would all be dead

@me-lm9ru

11 ай бұрын

@@timmcguire653 Maybe it's the one that Miguel lost his family in

@me-lm9ru

11 ай бұрын

@@timmcguire653 Maybe it's the one that Miguel lost his family in

Matpat said at about 10:40 that Earth 42 has no Spider-Man so it should have collapsed. However, it does have a Spider-Man in Miles, he is just being Spider-Man for the wrong dimension. I mean that he is technically Spider-Man for two different dimensions. Also I think Mumbattan started collapsing immediately because there are set dates for the cannon events in every world.

There’s also that one episode of what if talking about doctor strange trying to change an absolute point in time. That universe collapsed as well

Its honestly mind blowing how they managed to make almost all the events that happen the climax of the movie all at once and still not loose the viewers intrests for a minute and even after the end.

@lodestar3984

10 ай бұрын

This! I was focused the entire time!

@thisaccountisnotinuse

10 ай бұрын

i literally told my dad we had to stay in case there was an end credits scene, i stared at the credits for like 3 minutes without anything happening, but i was still so invested

@sullyschwartz2365

10 ай бұрын

They have mf-ing climaxes within the first half hour-Gwen leading up to the title drop? That was an ENTIRE story arc BEFORE a fucking Title drop. Do you know how immaculate you have to be with pacing and editing? The soundtrack is immaculate as well, incredibly immersive and fitting every moment; Part of why that Gwen arc's climax is pulled off so well is thanks to the amazing music as Vulture shoots up out of the museum

When Miguel fights Miles on top of the train, Miguel's words "You're the first anomaly" were about the spider that bit Miles, and he was talking to the spider.

When Miguel is explaining that a chief officer must die so the canon stays safe he didn’t know that in Gwens earth her dad quit from being a captain therefore as long as you don’t break the canon the canon doesn’t need to be in place meaning the canon doesn’t have to happen

It also perfectly explains the first movie as well. Kingpin was TRYING to cause an incursion, just to get his family back, merging the two dimensions until (hopefully) his universe, and his family remain

I love this, this makes the spot an even greater villian because of how easily he travels across different verses. Also the movie literally leaves off with miles in another universe.

@hastalasopasequemo3645

11 ай бұрын

I think the spot not being subject to glitching might be a huge power

@wins._7

10 ай бұрын

@@hastalasopasequemo3645at first I thought he wasn’t gonna be a big problem & many more villains are gonna come but I was wrong I guess he’s the main villain 😅

@hunterofdarkness8329

10 ай бұрын

​​@@wins._7 Bro is gonna grow so powerful he would be eating Marvels Gods for breakfast. Not even the infinity gauntlet can change Spots reality because now he would be every and nowhere at the same time, a walking Schrodinger. (This is sarcastic btw, I know how powerful Galactus is)

@yuorion3056

10 ай бұрын

bro has the death touch

One thing I found rather strange is that Miguel O'hara has 0 spiderman powers which is why he is so different in comparison to some all of the other spiderman, he has to use claws to climb walls, although the teeth and serum he injects himself with was never explained, but if Miguel never got bit by a spider it makes the most sense is that Miguel's universe where he died didn't collapse because it was a cannon event, it could have been a side effect from the 1st's movies when the spot was created maybe the spots initial creation could have caused more damage that isn't explained. Just like everyone else I believe these canon events are not vital for a dimension to function but where mine differs I believe the spot has one of the biggest roles within this trilogy and may impact it in ways we will not expect, but... Miguel might have some separate agenda which the spider society may be doing without them realizing. Also anyone notice how both the two broken canons displayed had a different reaction, while Miguel's vaporized the indian spiderman's (forgot the name) dimension could be ANOTHER side affect from the collider reaction which could create a whole new set of problems as most dimensions have the Alchemax lab have a collider within themselves. Anyway rant over.

Let's also consider there are a few Spider People who were never bitten by a radioactive spider, Pav being a perfect example. He got his powers from a yogi that mystically imbued him. There was no spider and no bite. Yet his universe is perfectly fine, all the way up until Miles piggybacks Gwen's portal and saves Captain Singh from a collapsing building caused by Spot. So clearly Pav is Spiderman, right? Except he never had the very first canon event, so why *should* he be Spiderman? Or maybe Miguel's just an idiot.

The use of Water colors in Gwen’s world blew my mind. On my third time through I noticed in the beginning Gwen has a light blue and her dad has pink behind him. But after Gwen’s identity is revealed in that world they both occupy Orange. Incredible movie with things you only notice on the billionth watch.

@MbitaChizi

11 ай бұрын

Matpattis my inspiration. My parents said if I get 10k followers They'd buy me a mic for recording..begging u guys, literally begging.

@Suicdar

11 ай бұрын

@@LiIDrukworthless human garbage

Miguel does imply that they usually are able to save universes from their collapses. We also know that those holes weren’t opening up until mikes became Spider-Man, and the spot got his powers at the same time. So I’m pretty sure all those holes belong to the spot.

@VladtheInhaler

11 ай бұрын

Yeah i buy that. We havnt been given a scale for just how powerful spot is now. It could be that spot is the one destroying spiderverses by visiting them, or he's doing it intentionally. For all we know, after the collider scene Spot could be time travelling, killing off spidermen from different universes, doing all kinds of things that would cause incursions. We'll probably find out he was behind the death of Miguel's family and the destruction of his next reality in revenge for something Miguel will do in the next movie.

@mrsteriy2101

11 ай бұрын

Yeah also the way the destruction of Miguel's universe was portrayed is a lot different from what happened in pavitr's universe

@johnathanowens2560

11 ай бұрын

One thing Matpat mentioned was the size of the “footprint” crossing over leaves. Until the events of the movie the spider society were hidden away at the top of that massive skyscraper, not really leaving a footprint on the area. If the theory is correct we could see that change in Beyond the spiderverse since so many people witnessed and were affected by the chase scene 🤔

@ahshitherewegoagain8695

11 ай бұрын

​​​@@johnathanowens2560also we see that Miguel has an algorithm that calculates how much the canon event is disrupted (shown at the beginning before they stop the helicopter) which is equivalent to how much footprint they are leaving in that universe.

@Antonio-ys5zd

11 ай бұрын

Alright to debunk this; Miguel is right. Miles was not destined to become spider-man as proven by the end of the movie where he is sent to the spider's universe and not his. He glitches out because he doesn't have a stabilizer like he does in his home universe. The first being Kingpin's collider and the second being the Spot. These are what keeps that universe stable because the canon can't be repaired. In the universes where it can I believe they make events happen to provide some level of emotionally impact to still occur that strengthens said Spider-Man and if that fails then the universe dies

Love this video! I also questioned some of the same things about cannon events such as why the planet the spider 42 came from still was intact after not creating Spider-Man and how miles home world never reacted to miles being bitten and Peter dying. Thinking it may have something to do with his “original Anamoly” status and a potential to “rewrite the cannon”

Just one problem: The spider who bit Miles was not from his universe and it committed incursion that killed a spiderman and created another and changed the world massively. Like, creating multiverssal villain for example.

Interesting note, the Canon Events of this movie matches with how the Ancient One explains Fixed Points in time working in the What If episode for Strange Supreme

@BigPunDude

8 ай бұрын

@@SkyDerechothe comment was talking about what if, not endgame. In what if the universe does end when dr strange breaks a fixed point which is basically the same as a cannon event. The problem though is a fixed point is universe specific as not every dr strange had to have his wife die. This means that Miguel’s logic is still flawed as fixed points are universe specific so he can’t apply his canon theory to every universe.

@BigPunDude

8 ай бұрын

@@SkyDerecho I totally agree, infact I remember hearing that MOM was originally about the villain nightmare instead of wanda but I suppose they really wanted to do the multiverse stuff which is pretty disappointing because I think nightmare would've been a really interesting antagonist. Not to mention that I don't even think marvel knows what a multiverse is since they use it almost interchangeably with alternate timeline as if they are separate universes.

@psquared2020

6 ай бұрын

​@@SkyDerecho It has nothing to do with Dr. Strange being the best of the Avengers. It's because he saw only one possible outcome of beating Thanos. So giving him the Time Stone was part of that.

@thesublimeparadigm8863

6 ай бұрын

@@BigPunDude But canon events ARE universe specific, just like fixed points. That's why it doesn't literally have to be "Uncle Ben" dying, it just has to be an "Uncle Ben figure." Each canon event is more about the IMPACT they have on the character and not the exact event itself. So in the case of Strange, both the death of Christine (What If version) and the injury to his hands (MCU version) lead to the same result: Strange turns to magic and becomes the sorcerer supreme.

@No_namess

5 ай бұрын

I was also thinking this too when I was in my bed thinking about it.. I kinda wanna write a quick KZread video or something else.. I still believe what’s staid in this video could be right.. this could also be something to think about.

I feel like I'm the only one who's mentioned this, but the hole that opens in Mumbattan looks nothing like Miguel's universe collapsing. Personally, I think that it's obviously just The Spot leaving behind a huge hole, intentionally or not, because of his strengthened powers

@sasson10

11 ай бұрын

I actually thought it was the Spot trying to destroy that city until it was said that it was something to do with the "canon events" stuff

@badsaturnz23

11 ай бұрын

Somebody also mentioned that Miguel's universe disappearing matches the visuals of when kingpin's machine blew up

@tranngockha6562

11 ай бұрын

​@@badsaturnz23 Oh yeah, now that you mentioned it. It could be possible that Miguel wolrd was destroyed by Miles's Kingpin. In that universe, Miguel's Kingpin family was still alive, then Miles' Kingpin use the collider to pull that family away, resulting in an unstable universe. Miguel infiltrate that wolrd make it worse, thus the unstable wolrd collapse.

@saphcal

11 ай бұрын

yeah its just the spot

@truevoltz7451

11 ай бұрын

I swear in the movie they mention that they’ve dealt with this before and so it’s surely similar to ‘breaking the canon’ and not due to the spot using his power

In the Arrow show there was massive fan backlash because Oliver Queen ended up with Felicity Smoak instead of Laurel Lance. It's a perfect example of what you said about people being stuck in the way that things are supposed to be

@searchingfortruth619

4 ай бұрын

Such a great point. TBH Laurel was always kind of a youthful infatuation, and she's pretty fickle throughout the show. She's kind of impulsive and immature. Like I can cut her some slack cuz she goes through some crazy stuff, but it makes me feel less bad about Oliver not ending up with her. What I HATED was how Felicity and Oliver legit ride off into the sunset and are happy, and then they just chuck it out the window. Felicity is super immature throughout that whole arc, and they could have brought Arrow out of retirement in a better way. A much more natural/organic transition that gives the storyline the space to contend with the tension of playing it safe vs going to help people (plus other similar themes) would have been way better. OR....just end the show on a happy note! Shows CAN END. SHOCKER! And they can continue to have Arrow guest start in other shows and just hang a lantern on it and Oliver can say "just this once" or something. Anywho, end of rant.

4:45 that back ground music just took me back to the early game theory day.

This made me think about how Miguel has all of the spider-men in the lobby, likely leaving massive footprints, but not causing an incursion. It's possible that the glitching that happens when the characters are in an alternate universe without the watches on could have something to do with causing incursions. Maybe the watches that keep them from glitching and allow them to travel the multiverse, are also the key to preventing incursions from happening. Since Miles and Spot didn't have the watches and left massive footprints (Spot destroying the Alchemax building and Miles saving so many people) an incursion could have happened due to their combined actions. This would explain the spider society not causing an incursion since all of the spider-people have the watches on, keeping them from glitching and preventing incursions from happening. This could also mean that Miguel's theory on cannon events is still partially true since these cannon events, if disrupted by someone from another universe who is not wearing a watch (for example miles), could leave massive footprints that result in incursions.

@monkedude9400

10 ай бұрын

That makes a lot of sense Good job

@Devil_sonar

10 ай бұрын

Wasn’t Miguel supposed to die? He’s the one who changed his universe

@kubamcmillan3078

10 ай бұрын

The original debunks incursions

@themaleprotagonist5877

10 ай бұрын

Then miguels and pavitr's dimensions shouldnt have collapsed

@ItsVasl

10 ай бұрын

exactly my point!

If MatPat is right on this one, then that means the only way to avoid incursions would be for everyone to return to their respective universes, given that the likely hood of incursions is increased by an individual’s footprint in another universe. What really really scares me about that is that Miles and Gwen are from different universes, and if being in a different universe risks an incursion, then that would mean they would never be able to see each other again. What’s even worse is that this is kinda foreshadowed when Gwen says that the relationship “never ends well.” Miles and Gwen being split up could be the big tragedy at the end of the franchise. I’m PRAYING that I’m wrong here! (And tbh maybe I am since I haven’t seen the movie yet due to a hectic few weeks, but I’m going to as soon as I get the opportunity).

@kalebfinn8446

11 ай бұрын

I think he might be wrong on the incursions as wouldn’t the spider from earth 42 crossing over create one since it caused Peter to die and miles to become spider-man. At least that’s my thinking

@shibainu2528

11 ай бұрын

I'm not entirely sure on how incursions work, but wouldn't they have a butterfly effect like with the Earth 42 spider? If Miles had his entire destiny changed to be Spiderman, then that would spiral into everyone who Spiderman meets into having THEIR destinies changed, and before you know it, Earth 1610 has a giant tidal wave of incursions all originating from a single spider. If this thought process is true, then that probably means that all the other Spidies that Miles met / changed indirectly through the supercollider not being shut off in time, will have their universes in danger. Noir has a world where the knowledge of our colors exist for example, that seems pretty major with all the research that might be done on it.

@A350flyernyc

11 ай бұрын

@@shibainu2528 fair point. MatPat can brush over this stuff from time to time

@youdontknowsponge6218

11 ай бұрын

What if like all the Spider-Men jumping into his universe causes his universe to merge with Gwen and Peter's as an excuse for Miles to spend more time with them.

@benjaminlopez6121

11 ай бұрын

Sense all the spider people are in Miguel's universe wouldn't that make an incursion?

Me whenever I can't get AirUp: **Grabs a water bottle and drinks it while putting a fruit of my choice against my nose** 😂

Your theory is correct because that's what the animated Spiderman movies are teaching the viewers; that canon ultimately doesn't matter, those canon events don't change who Miles is. The movie is directly responding to all those KZread essays/reddit posts of people confused/angry/debating over what's canon and what's not canon on any fandom. There's this huge outcry for Disney to "de-canonize" the sequel Star Wars trilogy because some things don't make sense in the over arching star wars universe, when in reality none of that matters, just watch things that you like and don't take everything so seriously. Miles just wants to live but he's being told that the way he wants to live is incorrect. Miguel can be seen as a representation of Star Wars Theory, for example, he's a massively popular Star Wars influencer who complains when the story starts to deviate from his feeling of what is canon. And due to his influencer status and his audience, those impressionable viewers ultimately take his side.

The sad part too is that I also think Miguel is pushing all the blame onto Miles, WANTING him to be the problem, because if he's not, that means that Miguel killed his family in a different world, and he doesn't want to be a part of that. So by taking out Miles, he wants to fix everything. Edit: To clarify what I mean, since a lot of people seem to be a bit confused (my bad, I didn't word it very well), what I'm saying is that, to him, Miles HAS to be wrong. Because if it was the breaking of canon events, it was Miles that started it and while Miguel was at fault, now he's making up for it. If Miles is correct, that means that not only has everything he's been doing to try and "repent" for what happened became useless, but it also means that there could have been a way to save his family, or do things differently that could have changed the outcome. Great power, great responsibility kinda thing. So I think that's why he's going after him so hard, not because it'll save lives but because he will have to face the truth if Miles is right. (Long comment, sorry)

@justice8718

11 ай бұрын

Miguel fears having Miles and other Spiderman make his mistakes because he killed everyone from ignorance.

@bambisbluebell

11 ай бұрын

@@justice8718 Yes, I think so, but I also think that he wants to shift some of the blame onto Miles. Obviously it's not stated, but I think that's part of why he's so desperate to go after Miles, by saying it was all his fault, it removes some of the blame from Miguel and I think that's what he wants. To feel like it's not his fault, even if it's just a little bit.

@beefomuffin1049

11 ай бұрын

@@bambisbluebell killing your family will do that to you

@justice8718

11 ай бұрын

@@bambisbluebell He blames himself outright in his own speech. It's the first thing he explained.

@ParkityParkPark

11 ай бұрын

this is called the identified patient, commonly seen in problematic group dynamics of varying natures (most typically addressed in families). There's lots of problems going on and everyone collectively decides that it's all rooted in one person, smaller group, etc. "Oh, if only so-and-so would stop doing such-and-such everything would fix itself." It's usually a mix of shifting responsibility and wanting to maintain a sense of control over your life, relationships, and environment.

I believe the bracelets they wear to travel dimensions also keep them from tearing the universes apart. Otherwise the universe where the spider society is would probably tear apart from there being so many spider-men in it but it doesn't. Even after they all start swinging through the entire city when going after Miles.

@jackcashcow

9 ай бұрын

I think you mean by a gizmo, and gizmo is a navigation watch where you could go to any universes, and can prevent you from glitching.

@CreepDestroyer

9 ай бұрын

I'm not sure what the spider society is, because it might be a different plane of existence instead

@mrgroudon182

9 ай бұрын

spider society is Miguel's home world, I think, it's future new york(2099).

@mamamo96

9 ай бұрын

​@@CreepDestroyer it was Miguel's universe

@CreepDestroyer

9 ай бұрын

@@mamamo96 no? No it wasn’t.

Love the theory, I fully forgot about incursion's until now, but this made me wonder how does Dr. Strange's story in "What If?" play into this? Christine Palmer's death being a fixed point in time seems awfully similar to a cannon event, and undoing this did lead to what seemed like an incursion. There were admittedly different elements like time travel and magic, but I feel like this moment, which is also in the MCU may at least loosely support Miguel's theory.

This could be what sony planned for the next movie. Maybe Miguel has to learn he was wrong when Myles saves his dad and the universe doesn't collapse.

Japanese Spider-Man was promised to be in Spiderverse 2, but that was before it was split into 2. As it stands, Spiderverse 3 has a very likely chance of having Japanese Spider-Man

@FernandoCarloto

11 ай бұрын

All i need from Spiderverse 3 is some kind of Tengen Toppa Sp//der Leopardon, i don't even care if it's dumb or unnecessary.

@shreksmistress

11 ай бұрын

AYYYYY YAYYYYY

@uwuface1828

11 ай бұрын

But rlly does it matter at all he is a power anger rip off it’s boring soo I ask again who cares?

@Flipside2099

11 ай бұрын

I need Japanese spiderman to fly in out of nowhere in his spaceship and blast some minions soooo bad

@aneonfoxtribute

11 ай бұрын

@@uwuface1828 A lot of people care, and it matters because it will be fucking hilarious. He is a Power Rangers rip off, but it's funny.

What I like about this theory is that it connects back to the first movie where they found themselves in a situation where they're dying by being in another universe. In other words, the universe will either try to remove the intruder or it will self destruct in the process of it can't

@joshbrosh6626

11 ай бұрын

The spider that bit miles also was glitching out in the first movie So this was a set up from start

@calebwhite6323

11 ай бұрын

Omg, like an Immune System

@DarthVader-wk9sd

11 ай бұрын

Except no such thing happened in no way home or multiverse of madness, the logic is completely inconsistent

@BubblyFemboy

11 ай бұрын

@@DarthVader-wk9sd exactly. and in miguels world theres literal hundreds of spiders and no incursion. I don't think he put much thought into this theory

@PEASANTPAINT

11 ай бұрын

@@DarthVader-wk9sda case could be made for the difference in how they got to other multiverses, the collider incident is definitely a far less sophisticated way to travel to other universes causing some form of dimensional feedback not present it’s magic

2:03 I AGREE i need to watch this with subtitles, i remember schaffrilas saying this is the only time he's ever wanted to watch something with subtitles on

I had the start of this theory but couldn’t get it quite right. This really clears it up for me

I have a theory, but the only problem is that it wouldn't make sense for him to assemble an entire spider society for it, unless he already had one prior. Maybe the way he acts towards Miles is more selfish. I think that Miguel is afraid that Miles is right, and that you can break the “canon” without the world collapsing, and that his daughters death in the second universe was in vain. Need I mind you he left his original one, so who knows what happened to Miguels family in the first one, to go to another universe only to lose his family again which was his fault according to what he told Miles.

@King-zx3ts

11 ай бұрын

That’s a really good one, I would have never thought of that

@carbon.the.christ5626

11 ай бұрын

🤔🤔

@kitsune_gt

11 ай бұрын

the way he described the universe it sounds like he didnt have a family in his original universe or already lost them

@Gutansky

11 ай бұрын

the universe where the spider socity is in, it's his universe

@sharedaxis4670

11 ай бұрын

he didnt have a family in the original one, they died.

I love how matpat matches the film theory introduction theme to the movie every time

"SpiderMan must die" Well he kinda already did.... I'm so sorry I should not have made that joke 😂

The Spider Society is kind of a cult that sacrifices people to satisfy the universe and as soon as the sacrifices stop the universe collapses.

I’m hoping they find a way to allow people to exist in other universes without causing Incursions. The Watches and Day Passes stop them from glitching out when in other dimensions, so since those devices stabilize their forms in other worlds, it may be possible it limits the possibility of Incursions, which is why the entire Spider Society can exist all at once in Nueva York without causing an Incursion, they’re completely stabilized. And the reason Mumbattan was starting to experience one was because Miles didn’t have a day pass at the time, so he wasn’t stabilized and thus threatened the stability of Mumbattan It also seems The Spot may be an exception as we never see him glitch out ONCE, which may just be a side effect of the dark matter portals coating his body. They naturally warp him to other dimensions so they may have naturally formed in such a way the dimensions they connect to don’t experience Incursions as a result

@sweetieswifey627

11 ай бұрын

One of the better conclusions I've seen yet here

@ahmed4363

11 ай бұрын

or its just spots erasure power at work

@thejus1489

11 ай бұрын

If people from different dimensions can cause incursion (without the band) then miles universe should be destroyed in the first movie due to the presence of multiple people from different universe in his universe without the safety band.

@Random_Dude_01

11 ай бұрын

​@Thejus Incursions aren't always 100%, they've been explained as an event that could likely happen, not as a guaranteed thing

@IceMetalPunk

11 ай бұрын

Interesting take. I saw it the other way around: the bands are *causing* the universes to collapse. In "Into", everyone in the wrong dimension kept glitching, and Doc Ock mentioned that the longer they stayed, the more they'd glitch until they disintegrated. So it seems to me that Miguel's bands, by preventing the *people* from glitching, create a sort of fallback effect where the *universe* glitches/disintegrates instead, and the longer they're there, the more it falls apart. It doesn't explain Nueva York being stable, though... But then, your idea doesn't explain why Earth-1610 wasn't collapsing in "Into", so I think both options have questions that need answering.

I’m surprised you didn’t bring up the fact that Gwen’s father quits the police force, thus never having him make the rank of captain, completely avoiding a “canon event” that should happen to Gwen. I can’t wait for the next movie to tackle this

@117MasterSpartan

11 ай бұрын

I mean it’s not that deep it literally happens in any time travel or multiverse movie or a lot of movies in general of “your fate is in your own hands”. Heck even god of war ragnarok states the obvious. Anything could happen canon events don’t mean anything

@jonasquinn7977

11 ай бұрын

Tbf that could literally just be explained away as him not being the captain that eventually dies

@Zombatt

11 ай бұрын

​@@117MasterSpartanin Marvel What-If, doctor strange tries to change a canon event but it just keeps happening over and over.

@117MasterSpartan

11 ай бұрын

@@Zombatt that doesn’t affect anything of the MCU or spiderverse because it’s a what if

@leeman23664

11 ай бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/hXWhz86Kiq3MaZs.html Finally it’s here🤠

One thing that does confuse me if the incursion theory truly is what’s happening instead of canon events is this: wouldn’t Miguel’s universe-Earth-928-have imploded on itself by now? The amount of spider-people in his universe should easily bring the risk of an incursion in his dimension up to a ridiculous amount. Especially the chase throughout Nueva York, which clearly disturbed the public. If incursions were really something to happen just by one person in the wrong dimension, Miguel’s dimension would be long gone by now. Unless the dimension he’s in right now isn’t his real dimension or the watches somehow stop incursions from happening.

Wouldn’t this mean that earth 928 would have an incursion at some point? Or would the watches also stop that

It could be that everything can just be prevented using Miguel's bracelets. They seem to be doing a pretty good job, example being the fact that the world Spider Society uses as a homebase is still there. In both in film examples of universes collapsing or on the brink of it, we see outsiders without bracelets. Miles in Mumbattan and Miguel in the collapsed one.

@darkpool7289

11 ай бұрын

I think for Mumbattan the Spot is also is at fault, like any other villain that the Spider-Society hunts and captures.

So given that the spot can go between universes as he pleases, doesn’t that make him essentially a walking incursion?

@anonimoose165

9 ай бұрын

Oh definitely. The dude is gonna be the downfall of the multiverse.

@stansmith7445

6 ай бұрын

That’s why he needs to be dealt with ASAP

@ThatComputerGuyRyan

6 ай бұрын

@@anonimoose165Unless he is stopped. The issue is that he is so unpredictable at this point no one knows how. I just wonder if he is solved in the end of Beyond or just the solution gets found at the end of beyond

@danielloewen2857

5 ай бұрын

​@@ThatComputerGuyRyanmy theory is that he will be defeated in the beginning/first half of beyond, and then the rest will have Miguel as the main antagonist

@Lucia-Katuendji

5 ай бұрын

i believe his powers have a preotection against tht just like other power and wat about tht girl from doctor strange with multiversal powers to wat if their powers grant them not to be detected cause the anomol is due to confusion of the universe in the first place

Each canon event probably has a certain importance, and each world has a level of canon event importance. With each one that happens that level goes up and if it isn’t fullfilled, then and only then do the spot holes appear and the universe collapses

film theory: what if the back rooms is an incursion

I think the Tom Holland Spider-Man technically had two uncle Ben moments. You have Aunt May, but I think the more important one is actually Tony Stark in endgame. If Tony Stark counted toward the Uncle Ben moment, he would definitely fit in a little bit easier with the timeline.

@katherinejones9591

11 ай бұрын

good point there

@EndyMiTson

11 ай бұрын

Poor MCU Peter, he lose Tony, May, Ben, Zendaya, reputation and probably soon his best friend.

@voltbeat1133

11 ай бұрын

And He was dusted 5 years, maybe ITS Like a Stop Button for the Countdown to breakdown

@JeffStarch

11 ай бұрын

Toby McGuires best role kzread.info/dash/bejne/lmyJmNWRg8a4dcY.html

@pablobuquet2534

11 ай бұрын

​@@EndyMiTsonhe didn't lose zendaya yet, but emotionally he did

Mat also didn’t mention the fact that (at least in the comics) Miguel O’Hara was never bitten by a radioactive spider, as well as Ben Reilly and Jessica Drew, which is another hole in the idea that every spider person needs to experience that canon event

@blackmanwithcomputer

11 ай бұрын

Not all events are the same.

@thefnafdetective

11 ай бұрын

⁠@@blackmanwithcomputer Ok but there really aren’t many variations to “Getting bit by a spider” Miguel had his DNA experimented on. Ben Riley is a clone and was basically *born* as Spider-Man These aren’t variations of the spider bite event. They are completely different. And if the variation in a canon event can be THAT wide, then the whole concept of canon events wouldn’t exist.

@theglitch5386

11 ай бұрын

I find it funny that Matpat used all the cannon events that could be opposed by 'Timing doesn't matter' while leaving out the event that was called out by name as necessary, will obviously never happen to certain 'cannon' spider-men, and is arguably the most noticeable discrepancy in the film.

@blackmanwithcomputer

11 ай бұрын

@@thefnafdetective Japanese Spider-Man was given a power ranger morpher. Pavitr was blessed by a Spider god. There's not a lot, but there's others. The canon events are just variations of events that are similar amongst all of them, but he didn't every event is the same for all of them. It's a meta thing, because most of all the different variants are based off the OG Peter's storylines. Miguel would obviously have no idea why these things happen to them, but he knows it does because he's been studying the multiverse for over a year obsessively trying to find out why that universe was destroyed. Countless hours of observation and interactions have had him come to the conclusion that certain events are too important to be stopped. Maybe that version of his daughter was supposed to become a Spider-Person, but her father needed to die? Hopefully we'll find out in Beyond, because I find it interesting that two major antagonists, Miguel and Jess, clearly didn't have their origins and backgrounds clearly explained. Whereas everyone else has been explained.

@thefnafdetective

11 ай бұрын

@@blackmanwithcomputer Those are not variations of being bit by a spider. They’re so ridiculously different that it’s stupid to say that they’re the same as being bit by a spider. If being BIT by a SPIDER is a canon event, then all of these examples break canon. None of these spiders were bit.

me at 12:00:IS THAT JIM HALPERT

3:44 Well actually, it was a grieving Kingpin who funded the collider along with Johnathan Ohnn's (The Spot's) multiversal experiment (taking Earth 42's Spider) that started everything.

You know its a good multiverse movie when it ACTUALLY takes you to multiple universes

@samcochran8203

11 ай бұрын

*Doctor Strange 2 looking awkwardly from the corner*

@mr.bulldops_9352

11 ай бұрын

@@samcochran8203 Doctor Strange 2 wasn’t good tho

@jamesreilly5905

11 ай бұрын

That's what was implied by his comment

@samcochran8203

11 ай бұрын

@@mr.bulldops_9352 yeah, I thought before viewing it that it had the greatest chance to stand out from the typical modern marvel drivel Disney had been pushing out, but I was sadly mistaken, and the film was just left me with a feeling of meh. I loved the raimi cams and the jumpscares, but that was the biggest part, the better parts after that were most of the ones that included strange, because a lot of his scenes were bogged down either by America or Wanda

I had always assumed that the reason why Miles’ universe continued to exist after Peter Parker’s death is because there was already a replacement spiderman, hence why Miles’ uncle died, and why his father is possibly going to die. It was able to wrap around the missing spider-man because there was a new spider-man

@megaegg2285

11 ай бұрын

I think the whole canon event thing is bullshit and Miguel might just be a control freak maybe

@p-__

11 ай бұрын

My farts are better than Matpat’s farts 💨 💨

@LettuceBoy421

11 ай бұрын

@@megaegg2285 I believe that the canon events are real, just not how he thinks, I think there are set things that must happen, but I don’t believe that they all have to have a dead uncle, no parents, dead love interest ect

@sr_aron

11 ай бұрын

So why didn’t it work for Miguel a second time?

@Syndicate_LS

11 ай бұрын

@@sr_aron Every other case allows for adaption. A replacement will allow for the events to follow them and their lives instead, but if you are a replacement for yourself, it cannot adapt. It’s essentially just trying to follow the same path twice, after it’s already confirmed to be a failed path. Since he did so, it led to its inevitable collapse. Most events have to happen but it’s never explicitly stated any order, but at the same time if most events already are set, then changing that without an immediate fix to the problem that is still not the identical thing, then it results in that collapse as well. This is probably why it collapsed in on itself as soon as miles saved that dude, but also why it collapsed when my man tried to replace himself after death

Right about at 15:36, I started feeling like you were talking to exactly how I was feeling.

Goodbye mat.I'll Miss you.😢

I actually have a slightly different theory. Anyone else notice that Miguel O'Hara's incursion looked different from Pavitr's 'Incursion'? Miguel's is all bright colors and flashes, but while we only see the last bit from Miguel's universe, Mumbattan's collapse looks very similar to The Spot's, well, spots. It looks more like Pavitr's universe collapse is a side effect or caused by The Spot growing stronger rather than the "canon" being disrupted. And if multiple different universe's spidermen being in the same universe caused an incursion that quickly then Miles' universe would have collapsed before the first movie finished, and we wouldn't have a sequel. And the base's universe would have collapses when Miguel brought in more than one other spider-man, it is still intact, therefore, 3 extra spidermen wouldn't have caused a collapse in the less than an hour we see them in Mumbattan.

@HawkEyeTS

11 ай бұрын

The movie's action scenes go by so fast that it's hard to remember the sequence of events at times, but I'm like 99% sure that they go out of their way to show The Spot's extra-dimensional warping looking like it has almost infected the Alchemex building as it is falling toward the bridge, and that obviously happens before Miles "breaks canon" and saves the Captain of the universe. So I think it's pretty clear for that instance that it was entirely The Spot's actions that caused the dimensional hole after the building completely collapsed onto the ground. As for Miguel's incident I immediately thought it looked very unusual when the world was falling apart - in fact it looked to me more like everything in it was despawning, as though a computer was unloading all of its NPCs and buildings. Given that we have already seen comic book worlds, Lego worlds, and the movie SPECIFICALLY calls out Sony's Playstation Spider-Man as another world, would it be that much of a leap to think that Miguel found a world that was effectively a simulation and jumped into it without realizing it? What if the collapse of that world was the entity running the simulation noticing a "virus" had invaded their system and deciding to reset it to clean up the issue? There are plenty of viruses that mask themselves as existing applications, and that's exactly what Miguel was doing in that world, pretending he was someone that had already existed there. As for the incursions theory, I don't know how much I buy into it. If you've read the comic books, you'll know the incursions there don't happen just because someone has entered another universe for too long. I know the MCU likes to deviate heavily on these things, but much like the contradiction of the Spider-Society being on one world without causing trouble, there were a ton of Kangs all in one place at the end of Quantumania. I suspect that we'll find out some external force that the heroes have not recognized yet is behind the incursions, and that all the worlds to fall so far have been unfortunate dominoes in a longer game, rather than the fault of random and often accidental travelers between worlds.

@zacal84

11 ай бұрын

S actually thinking the same after it happened.

Honestly, i think a really good line in responce to Ohara saying "You werent supposef to be biten. You chose this path" wouldve been, "I didn't choose to be biten, it chose me. But I get to decide how my story goes."

That is a great theory.... it would be fantastic to see if the next spiderverse film goes this route....

the only problem i see with this theory, and it is major, is that all these spiderpeople are constantly staying in O'Hara's world as a base of operations, meaning though they might not be doing massive damage, except for the chase scene, collectively they should be leaving such a massive footprint that an incursion should have already occurred at spider HQ

@christinewhoyt

11 ай бұрын

Yeah exactky, or somehow the watch thing prevents it somehow.

@sildarmillion

10 ай бұрын

Yes, I came here to say this.

@mohamedabdelhalim21

10 ай бұрын

Seeing how the watch prevents them from glitching across different dimensions and that it warns them about those "canon events" , it probably plays a part in preventing incursions.

@eisuke4966

10 ай бұрын

The watches prevent glitches. I'm not sure how they work exactly but due to how they match the character they're owned by or made by, (Shown when Hobie makes one for Gwen so Miguel can't track her) I think it allows you to travel dimensions, prevents you from glitching, but more importantly, stablizes the spider man and simulates them being in their own universe. That or the 2099 World of the Spider Society works off of the same technology the watches do just larger scale

@sildarmillion

10 ай бұрын

@@eisuke4966 @mohamedabdelhalim21 But then what about in the first movie when all those Spider people were in Miles' universe without watches?

Another detail with Mubattan's hole: the Alchemax building chunk still had writhing Spots on it. Maybe they all merged and grew once held in place, faking out the Incursion.

@gobocarter

5 ай бұрын

While I think the same thing for the most part I can’t help but go back to Miguel saying that they can’t always fix it, feeling like an implication that it has happened before, more than once outside of just his story (but again it could be a lie?)

@danielloewen2857

5 ай бұрын

​@@gobocarterI doubt he would lie about that, especially considering there were other spiders present who likely could know otherwise and become suspicious of him, so I think he told the truth there