This is awesome. I had been wrestling with this question over the past year or so, playing Chainmail on and off again (as far as the Combat ROUND VS a TURN). The coverage from you and Mollison, and that important 3rd edition wording has left me with the same conclusion. Before, I was allowing additional rounds of combat per turn in the event of push-backs + moving victorious chargers their remaining move, etc., but I was interpreting that "melee continues" outcome as a sort of "neither side moves, they'll count as melee-ing next turn", with this question still kinda burning in the back of my mind. Felt like I was gaslighting myself. Good stuff, and thank you.

Thanks for filing this Brother. Om playing tomorrow. Thos got me pumped.

@WargameCulture

3 ай бұрын

Rock on!

1. Wait, if 2e also has move 1/2 in good order without the immediate, what did yall do? Wait a turn? 2. at 14:30, should two of those gray attacked 'flanked', so as a higher troop? 3. The math and process should be *muuuch* quicker and easier if the players were keeping track of their own morale score based on number of troops, and the ref was only doing the quick casualty difference on the fly. 4. I know it is easier to give 'fatigue tokens' for things, but idk if the exact, only 3 scenarios, make a big difference? I also do tokens btw 5. I absolutely love that this actually uses the rules about needing to reform, excellent. 6. The charging back and forth, and potential waiting in place, and the fatigue, as well as their interaction with archers, makes archers so much cooler. With lines getting stuck in, archers would literally have turns where they couldn't shoot anything?!? Very very dynamic and tactical stuff coming out. 7. Definitely seems more 'complicated', but I can see a huuuuge tactical benefit. Great stuff!

Thank you for taking the time to show how to play chain mail.

@WargameCulture

3 ай бұрын

You are so welcome!

Not entirely sure that you got this wrong, but in any case "When a unit moves a charge move it must move at normal speed on the following turn."

@WargameCulture

3 ай бұрын

Yah, I called it a charge, but it was only 4.5 inches, so it technically was "just a move".

Outstanding work. Question on fatigue. All morale dice Rolls are penalized, correct? Were you penalizing that d6 roll in the post melee morale calc? Also, did you check morale for the charged unit?

@WargameCulture

3 ай бұрын

I believe I subtracted 1 from the die roll for post-melee calc, I was certainly thinking about it! I believe Charged Units only check morale when Charged by Cavalry or Swiss/Landsknecht Pike (p. 18)

3rd Edition has the Hobbits and Elves right?

I posted a response to your substack post that may inform part of this conclusion.

@tagg1080

3 ай бұрын

That article. And chainmail 3rd edition, and cavaliers and Roundheads were all around the same year. C&r explicitly states one round of combat, as well as rules for movement phase around moving out of stuck in melees. Siege of Bodenburg has melee continue until rout. And domesdaybook5 proto chainmail has one round of combat and then retreat must happen. I am still not convinced chainmail is played with stuck in troops locked in melee.

@ThePinkPhantom

3 ай бұрын

@@tagg1080That's fair. Given that turns are considered 1 minute, I don't consider that 'stuck'. For me a mass of troops needed to avoid morale failure seems sufficient to carry on combat for several minutes before a decision point is reached.

@tagg1080

3 ай бұрын

​@@ThePinkPhantom I am just trying to find an answer, I didn't intend to go down this rabbit hole but now I need to know the answer lol. The game morphing into D&D over time is very obviously muddying the waters... And even modern oD&D people all seem to play the game slightly differently, so it is hard to find solid answers to all these questions.

@ThePinkPhantom

3 ай бұрын

@@tagg1080Yeah I get that. And I've got no issue with that pursuit. The Gygax example of play is good enough for me. I see the pursuit of 'the rules' alot in folks researching the past of rpg and wargaming, especially along the intersection/split of them. Personally, while I find the evolution of them interesting, it's always seemed to me that the folks who played at that time didn't care that much about the specific ruleset. They played, evaluated, and changed to get the experience they wanted. The exact ruleset was irrelevant except for within a session. Other than that rules were mutable, do what works best (or theoretically will) at the table. For me, melee into the next turn makes perfect sense, regardless of how the rules started or where they led to years down the line.But on somebody else's table, it wouldn't make sense.

@tagg1080

3 ай бұрын

@@ThePinkPhantom chainmail specifically sparked a revolution. I am curious to try to play it as close as possible to see the game properly. Even if it sucks lol. Then I can play however I want after ha.