This bullet did exactly what it was was designed to do. it is a home defense round that is what federal says.. I think this is an excellent choice for the house especially an apartment.

Gotta say, your tests just keep getting better and better. The way you present them is so thoroughly planned out and detailed that it's like something you'd see on TV - kinda reminds me of a Motorweek review, actually (which is awesome). Far as this ammo goes, one of my biggest gripes is that it's exactly the same as their previous EFMJ, except they're selling it in boxes of 20 for the same price as they used to sell them for boxes of 50.

I love how thorough and rational your ammo test are.

These are an excellent option for states that civilians aren't permitted to carry hollow points.

@rickm2647

7 жыл бұрын

Jersey_91 any state that does not allow hollow point carry...those lawmakers are absolute fkng idiots.

@losi8ightyew

7 жыл бұрын

Rick M Right?! I'd prefer people carrying TO carry HP's. LOL.

@Darkpara1

7 жыл бұрын

I can't fathom why... given that it's far better to have people firing jhp's around.

@leoschiavi3836

5 жыл бұрын

Hollowpoints are unnecessary brutal, nobody needs such things expect killing commandos

@ooferrell

5 жыл бұрын

@@leoschiavi3836 shut the hell up dude a hollow point is a round for protection....if u use a fmj u can hit someone behind the person or if u live next to someone it could go threw the criminal and to them...fmj are only design for target practice...u don know shit about guns

I like the idea of stopping 5" to 6" in a body. less chance of someone else getting shot with the same billet.

This round is supposed to under penetrate as it is designed for use inside a home. It expands on any impact (drywall) and not clog causing over penetration in the home.

TN your ammo reviews are nothing short of the best on YT. Very comprehensive and informative. You preform a practical service which can actually be applied to our personal EDC. Thank You Sir, Please keep up the good work. Cheers!

TN I thoroughly enjoyed the wallboard test with media. That's something often not seen in many test (including yours). Keep up the great work and I'll enjoy watching (while obtaining an educated opinion as to my personal carry load). Thanks.

This round wasn't meant to follow FBI standards. A "duty" round needs to shoot through auto glass and other barriers. Your test demonstrates that this round is performing just as it should. Its a home defense round period. It isn't designed for anything else. I also like the design. The polymer guarantees expansion. The light recoil aids with fast follow up shots which is important if the intruder is 15 feet away.

@DirtyDan1

6 жыл бұрын

9 inches is not enough penetration

@bpguitarist7

6 жыл бұрын

The average person's torso is 9 inches thick, so 9 is plenty.

@warriorcaste4304

6 жыл бұрын

Here's a more realistic test kzread.info/dash/bejne/eKmbrsyfm9Hbh5c.html

@MrEtherguy

5 жыл бұрын

Human body does not behave like ballistic gel. Muscle, tendon and especially bone are much more resistant to penetration.Basically, ballistic gel =/= people.

@Psycodiver69

5 жыл бұрын

@@MrEtherguy Thats because it acts as a medium with penetration parameters set in place. The FBI didn't come up with this for shits and giggles, they determined shooting through this gel to determine if the round has enough energy to incapacitate a hostile target by hitting the CNS (Central Nervous System). It takes a bit of energy to hit the spine hard enough to break and and damage the spinal cord, especially if the round has to go through a rib. The demin is there as a way to test if the round will "plug" up and fail to expand, people a heck of allot smarter than me or you came up with this. Point is if it doesn't penetrate far enough, it means the round may not be able to damage the CNS enough to take out the hostile target, if it penetrates to much then the round becomes a risk to people behind the target. Pistols in general are terrible man stoppers, they don't generate enough energy to cause hydro static damage which ruptures blood vessels and damages/destroys nearby organs like long guns do. Damaging the CNS is very important because drugs and adrenaline can make a person fight for a long time after they are fatally injured. Theres a video around here of hunters hitting a deer with a .50BMG, that deer ran for a good 200 yds before dying, they could put their arm through the cavity of the deer's chest where the round passed through yet the deer still ran

For every one thinking that 8" is enough: Ballistics gel is a poor simulation of the human body. They only use it because it is a consistent, calibratable medium that can give repeatable data. A round that penetrates 18" of gel will not penetrate 18" into a person, it more than likely will penetrate half that or less. And the 4 layers of denim is, again, something used because it is consistent to represent heavy clothing, like a winter coat. They don't use coats because the insulation can be inconsistent, thicker and denser in some areas. All these tests are is tests to be able to accurately compare the terminal ballistics of different rounds, not simulate what it will do in the human body.

@roundsout1557

4 жыл бұрын

Excellent !Sir well said !!!!

@divebobber

4 жыл бұрын

Well said. Now you've got me wondering how, say, water jugs compare to the human body. IE, 6 water jugs equals approximately how far in flesh? Of course, any bones throw a monkey wrench into that equation.

@dunzerkug

3 жыл бұрын

That and using live animals is prohibited and dead animal carcasses offer little benefit since the muscle tissue is typically chilled, tougher, and less fluid since most animals are bled out when slaughtered.

Great test. I have been watching your channel for about a year now, and was waiting for this ammo test. Thank you.

Great video, and thank you for such a thorough review. I know this was rare and I love your videos, but honestly it would be great to see this with all future bullet reviews.

I think i may get this because I don't want something that would go to far in a defensive scenario at an apartment and will probably use ranger t series or gold dot for out doors self defence

by the way, another great thing about these rounds is that they can be used at indoor gun ranges that don't allow hollow-points. I took them to my local range and showed them the box / after a few moments of confused looks they said I could use them // which means I can now train with the ammo I carry on duty !!

You are a true professional! Supreme content. Thank you for you dedication to your craft, it reflects in your videos very educational for anyone .

Great Video. Thanks for all the extra time and effort on this one. It brings to light the real performance of a unique concept. We appreciate the videos and the information that separates the hype from the reality. THANKS!

I think that bullet was made to not go through the bad guy a wall then your family!

@SaftonYT

7 жыл бұрын

Plenty of rounds out there that do that while still, y'know, having the penetration necessary to reach vital organs and stop the bad guy in the first place.

@SaftonYT

7 жыл бұрын

Deandalapanda Oh, that's cute. He thinks that cavity matters more than meeting the bare minimum penetration standards. It's absolutely possible to incapacitate a bad guy with these rounds, don't get me wrong. But the standards exist for a reason and I wouldn't willfully advocate a round in contravention to the recommendations of wound ballistics experts. Rounds that *do* meet the standards -- with ideal penetration levels *and* an even bigger cavity -- are just as good for home defense, where one must be mindful of pass-throughs and the like regardless of what fancy ammunition you decide to go with.

@boogathon

7 жыл бұрын

Oh, heck. Just pull the trigger a couple more times...

@SaftonYT

7 жыл бұрын

That's not and never has been a viable alternative to using high-quality self-defense ammunition.

@Bob5mith

6 жыл бұрын

It penetrated the same into the gel after going through the wall as not going through a wall.

I think most people put too much emphasis on jacket separation, if your lead/jacket come apart inside your target then your make more wound channels (even though the light jacket wont penetrate much). Look at varmint bullets: they are completely devastating on anything they hit and they have total separation/fragmentation. Although I don't want my handgun round fraging 100% a little separation does not bother me at all. just something to think about - great video

@fussellmuscle6301

10 жыл бұрын

Like the comparison to the varmint rounds. The bullet fragmenting a lot or completely drops the animal much quicker.

@55grBoattail

10 жыл бұрын

yep, ive seen it happen on larger game such as deer as well, especially when poor bullet placement leads to hitting areas that would normally not be considered "vital"

@davidteer80

9 жыл бұрын

cmx_337 Yes and no. Fragmenting ammo works well on rifle rounds since the rounds are traveling well over 2000 fps. When the rounds fragment at that speed, they cause separate wound channels and cavitation of their own. Handgun ammo is traveling mush slower than this. When a round fragments, the bullet is falling apart due to poor design/ manufacturing. At these lower velocities the fragments tend to stay in the main wound channel and not damage additional tissue. look up rifle varmint rounds and see the massive wound channels these fragmenting rounds create.

@Dopetronic

3 жыл бұрын

Right?! The thing didn't even fully separate and he calls it out twice as if the round wasn't performing like it was designed to. Oh no not 2/10 of an inch! Reduce your fractions!

Thanks for the very informative video. The 3 tests really help illustrate the overall performance of this round

Excellent testing, I really appreciate your work! Keep the great videos coming!

Its great if you want to stop someone but not go through other people .i live in an apartment so i like knowing that wont kill my neighbors.

@donsettie344

4 жыл бұрын

egm092478. The 9mm 115 gr, jhp +p+ and the Treasury load both were minimum penetrated of 9 to 10 inches a did great per ISP and LASO.

@dunzerkug

3 жыл бұрын

If minimal barrier penetration is important an AR-15 with varmint bullets would be better.

@CrispyChicken38

3 жыл бұрын

@@donsettie344 unfortunately not all pistols can handle a +p+ load

@filianablanxart8305

3 жыл бұрын

@@CrispyChicken38 Then a 110gr JHP +P ( if you're looking for similar penetration on purpose) .

@CrispyChicken38

3 жыл бұрын

@@filianablanxart8305 yeah, lots of good options for that luckily. I honestly really appreciate the variety to cater to specific purposes.

It's perfect. It gets complete energy transfer. And I'll wager considerably less felt recoil. I might go get me some of those.

@TREN_FOR_BREAKFAST

2 жыл бұрын

🤦‍♂️

Very good test. Answered the questions I've had about these EFMJ rounds. Keep up the good work!

You testing and videos are excellent. We are privileged to have this quality of testing and comparison available to us for free. I am able to take the knowledge gained from the results of these test into account when buying ammo.

Thank you! These are made for intended target only. It honestly scares me to know that some people want a bullet that can possible harm unintended, non-threatening bystanders after the round has hit it's mark. Keep up the good work at Federal! Many thanks for this ammo!

@no.step.on.snek.2423

2 жыл бұрын

There has NEVER been a documented self defense shooting where a bullet completley penetrated a target and hit a bystander.. its a myth.. and one that persuaded many.people to buy and use ammo that doesnt penetrate enough.. this very myth caused the death of fbi agents when a 9mm silvertip didnt penetrate to a vital organ in a heavily armed assaulter and allowed him to.live long enough to wipe out a couple feds. Thats why the fbi wants 12-16" inches of penetration. Because its a rare rare occasionwhen a center mass shot with no hands or arms in the way... In self defense many times the arms are outstretched toward you. Or you may be on the ground firing up. Heavy clothing , or behind a door. There are many reasons penetration matters . This round only went 8 inches in GEL.. what hsppens when it hits ribs , or a hand or arm. What happens when it has to penetrat an arm, shoulder , ribs and go 7-8 inches to reach organs if the assailant is sideways to you.. You wanna buy wolf tickets .. fine. But im gonna keep critical duty in my gun. It penetrates 17" with heavy clothings. And ill be careful not to shoot a bad guy with a good guy standing right behind him. Even though i cant imagine why a innocent by stander would be inches behind a bad guy thats behaving in a way deadly force would be justified

@G19Jeeper

2 жыл бұрын

I think you’re ignoring some other factors that could effect it. I’ll depend my life on HSTs long after these are discontinued lol

@Jason-iz6ob

Ай бұрын

Clueless.

It doesn't seem to have performed very well, but I disagree with a couple of your stated and implicit assumptions. 1. You seem to discount the polymer as if it's weight doesn't count, only the metal part of the bullet counts. As long as the mass and size of the bullet are steady for all practical and ballistic purposes the bullet could be 4% depleted uraniam or 8% goose down and it wouldn't make a difference as long as the bullets had the same overall density. All of the polymer still attached to the bullet contributed to it's mass. 2. You say "jacket separation" several times, but I didn't see any in your test. The lead moved forward and displaced the polymer (which would seem to be the intent of having the polymer there, but the lead was still encased on all sides by the copper jacket. The term jacket separation tends to mean that you end up with a dense lead core that overpenetrates and a less dense, high surface area copper jacket as a separate piece that achieves minimal penetration. These bullets held together with no jacket separation by my view of it.

I appreciate your ammo tests and keep up the good work. I am a Hornady fan and carry their 124+p daily in my G19. Both in Hornady TAP or American Gunner.

This vid is one of the reasons I subscribed: high quality firearm reviews.

That white folding-table has been viewed so many times it should have a place reserved at Smithsonian's National Museum of American History, right between Kermit the frog and Archie Bunker's living room chair.

This ammo is marketed purposely for under penetration. That's why it's called a home defense round.

@tnoutdoors9

8 жыл бұрын

+TheProfessor936 I 100% agree with you, but you still have to stop the bad guy with something that has a better than average chance of reaching vitals.

@moto_rad

8 жыл бұрын

This round is good for places that only allow FMJ for carry.

@JimiMac

8 жыл бұрын

+Muse Unlimited What would have been more informative toward the intentions of this round design would have been a test of a gel block that is the thickness of an average human torso depth and the drywall behind it to see if it would penetrate thru a body and then continue on thru a wall... That's what I'd like to see - like the way Lehigh Defense does with their Maximum Expansion round testing...

@pleasedontwatchthese9593

8 жыл бұрын

Is low penetration a common problem in home/ccw defense situations? I don't know my self. Maybe it is, I was wondering if you knew.

@pleasedontwatchthese9593

8 жыл бұрын

What about guns that don't feed well also?

You do great work sir, you're a great asset to the gun community here on You tube, I just want to say thanks for great work and passing along this valuable info!

I enjoy your videos because they are very educational in helping me see how bullets perform and assist me in my decision for my primary carry load. However, I do wish that you would do more tests like this on with barrier penetration thru sheetrock and metal into ballistic gel with denim for us (your followers/fans) to see how the ammo performs in actual real world situations. Thanks and keep the videos coming!!

This seems like a VERY good round for overall self defense. Very low likelihood of hitting an innocent bystander, or God forbid, hurting a neighbor when trying to fend off an attacker/intruder. I see too many comments from irresponsible people here, who somehow believe that they will be attacked by a terminator and therefore need rounds to penetrate steel. Be responsible and always think of the safety of those around you.

After reading some FBI data on the physiological aspects of gun shot wounds I believe this test is incomplete although very informative. I watch many of your videos and I'm a fan so this is not a negative comment, but only an observation. I would challenge you to retest this ammunition in the reverse order of this particular test. That would mean shooting a cut down block of ballistic gelatin first then placing the drywall boards after the gelatin. I would choose an 8" block to simulate a slender target and I would choose a thicker block of 12-16" to simulate a larger individual. The test I outlined would simulate hitting your intended target first. The experiment shown here simulates missing the intended target and punching through the wall to your child or neighbor. I would like to see wall penetration after some of the bullet's energy has been absorbed by the target first. I believe that was the original intention by Federal for producing this ammo. I would keep distance to target tight in order to simulate home invasion. Thank you for the excellent reviews.

@tnoutdoors9

7 жыл бұрын

I'm no longer posting videos, but I do appreciate the test protocol suggestions. kzread.infoabout

@jasontaylor7741

7 жыл бұрын

Hopefully, one day you will come back to doing some videos. Your videos are more informative, and enjoyable than 90% of the crap on television!

@onmydignal

6 жыл бұрын

+Eric Stenglein: Not sure I see your point. (1) Re: the 12-16" gel block you suggest, the video has already shown the bullet to penetrate 8.75" only -- and therefore would be contained by the gel block and unable to exit, much less reach the drywall -- rendering such a test moot. (2) Re: the 8" gel block you suggest, a bullet that only penetrates 8.75" -- in soft gelatin -- will already be slowing before it exits the 8" gel block. Testing that decelerating bullet in its final 3/4" of travel against two 1/2" sheets drywall seems to have a foregone conclusion.

@onmydignal

6 жыл бұрын

+tnoutdoors9: It's unfortunate for us in the community to have lost such a highly valued contributor. Wishing you all the best, ...you will be missed.

@darrellroar182

6 жыл бұрын

Eric if you are so knowledgeable maybe you should do your own review!

I was waiting for you to do this test,I seen one test just shooting into bucket of wet news paper that looked good but now that i have seen yours,not so good. Great test as allways Thanks.

Thank you. When I saw the Federal LE EFMJ in .40, I had my doubts about it and you seem have confirmed my suspicions. Thanks. again.

now redo all your previous test using drywall :) Another great video my friend.

The bullet is underpowered and sucks compared with a PDX1, Gold Dot or other premium rounds, Federal Guard Dog was created for be used where the hollow point is prohibited, in terms of defense definitely has a better performance over a FMJ .

@jimhovater8755

5 жыл бұрын

Mr E This would seem to be an ideal round for SROs to use.

@SaftonYT

5 жыл бұрын

@@jimhovater8755 Eh, I'd much rather have an SRO using HST or something than these frankly.

@jimhovater8755

5 жыл бұрын

@@SaftonYT After finding some and doing my 'old school' testing (soaking wet newsprint), I retract my previous statement.

These really are the best ammo videos on youtube.

you make the best videos I have ever seen, great job and thanks for posting them

coolest looking expanded bullet?

@4spida2fingaz0

9 жыл бұрын

I'd say what a creative idea huh

@usarmyfl1

9 жыл бұрын

CandyHam This bullet is 10 years or so old. They just called it the federal expanding full metal jacket. The stuff inside was clearish white. They just changed it to blue and renamed it. The old one was also 105gr.

All these conversations about bullets and calibers are interesting, but academic. There is no pistol round or caliber that is a be all end all. Seven of eight people shot with handguns survive. Many never go down after multiple hits with a handgun of any caliber. In more than a few cases people have survived being shot six or more times and continued on to kill the shooter bare-handed or with a knife or club. Shot PLACEMENT is the be all end all. And few people have ever lived that can accurately place rounds on a moving individual while jacked up on Adrenalin.. Whatever round you're carrying might be the exact wrong round for that situation. Or, it could be the right one. As every CHL holder knows the BEST thing is to avoid the situation. Since not always possible, it is hoped you've spent many hours firing your gun. And that you by luck or skill get hits in the Tee region of the face. Better yet your gunfight takes place in your home and a shotgun is your weapon of choice for home defense. But at any rate, as you're watching this video you are concerned about the safety of your family and yourself. So my fervent wish is you AVOID the necessity for lethal force but if it can't be avoided you're well prepared and lucky.

@robertflinn2462

7 жыл бұрын

Tom Swinburn : Best comment ever.

@andreas286

6 жыл бұрын

Yes. Best comment ever.

@squ696

6 жыл бұрын

All ican say is 44 mag.

@brandongambino7740

6 жыл бұрын

Tom Swinburn really? because .50 AE.

@charlescarr3909

6 жыл бұрын

i plan on if i shoot anyone to do it at least 3 times with a 9mm. hopefully that's smart thinking.

I really like the wall test. The test really shows the performance of the bullet in a real world senario.

Thanks so much for all the 9mm tests. I may not ever switch from my corbon dpx but still great to see what alls out there.

For home defense Guard Dog seems perfect. The FBI test is made to take into account every scenario it's agents will encounter. A bedside gun is for your home environment where over penetration can become a life threatening issue to friends or family or a neighbor if you live in a townhouse or apartment. I personally feel that it is a good round for both home and CCW from watching your video.Eight inches of penetration will touch anything vital in the human body that needs to be destroyed. My personal belief is put the assailant down if I can,but if I can incapacitate or just keep his head down while I make an escape I am fine with that result. Survival first.

Is an 11 inch penetration a bad thing???!!! I'm not a big guy, and probably could be considered average in size, and I would say that I'm about 12 to 13 inches deep from front (stomach) to back. Now; how far exactly do you want a bullet to travel/penetrate? If I have to shoot someone, I sure hope that bullet doesn't penetrate any further than about 8 to 11 inches. I don't need that bullet going all the way through and coming out the other side of someone. You know, that liability thing? So, I'm not sure why this bullet would be considered insufficient because it only travels about 11 inches.(?) I would almost want to say 11 inches could be the perfect depth for a self defense ammo. Now, I guess you could always carry extra clips with you that have different self defense ammo in them for people of specific size? Like a clip that says, "skinny person", "chubby person" and "obese person". I think you can see where I'm going with this.(?) Aside from all of this -- this just may be a fairly good ammo for self defense conceal carry. Besides...if the first one doesn't neutralize the threat; I have 19 more where that one came from. Am I wrong? Thoughts????

@MCBobbyE

9 жыл бұрын

simtest media is like shooting through 9 inches of skin it doesnt take into consideration bones and such :P so it would be less than 9 inches unless u shoot someone in the stomach

@rockisgreat2393

7 жыл бұрын

I said the same thing. If it's not a carry, have different types of HP (or EF in this case) depending on the room and your attacker. Be prepared for anything. Why not?

@checkmate440

6 жыл бұрын

I carry Bubba rounds made for big peoples since we are an obese nation.Plus when they come from the hood they be way overweight if you know what i'm sayin.

@jerrydonquixote5927

5 жыл бұрын

I think it's good to put three or four of these on top of your magazine in something a little heavier after these so if the first three or four or not effective then you have something a little stronger or if you have to chase them out of the house and maybe shoot into a car or something, that's just my two cents but I think it's good to have a few safety rounds at first so you don't injure a family member or someone in neighboring house from over penetration...

thank you for the test. I enjoyed this video including the wall board and the ballistic gel. I could only imagine how busy you are but if possible could you include drywall in any future test. every once in awhile it would be great to see. Thank you

I like this before I even got the the introduction! I was really hoping you'd test this round! anxious to see the results!

Home defense i'll use my REMINGTON 870.

@kensabe3872

8 жыл бұрын

great gun I used to own a 870 wingmaster

I'm LE. I would not carry this type bullet as a duty round. We have different requirements. However, I have this loaded for my wife's HD gun for three reasons: 1. It's relatively effective with well placed shots. 2. It is very light recoiling which helps with follow up shots. 3. Its easy for her to shoot well accurately No its not ideal by any standards nor is any handgun round but if you hit them center mass they will either drop or turn and run away. We are not talking Zombies we are talking scumbags.

@pleasedontwatchthese9593

8 жыл бұрын

Now I want some.

@rickm2647

7 жыл бұрын

Bob R I don't know if you are accurate on your assessment. I say we get some of these 'scumbags' so we can test it out in real life tests 😉...not ballistic gel B.S.

@rickm2647

7 жыл бұрын

And thank you for your service brother, stay safe out there.

@rockisgreat2393

7 жыл бұрын

You could argue we're still zombies (not literally, of course - mentally) but I get your point completely. Honestly, I'm not sure why (outside of potential lawsuits) the intent is to hit vital organs. My intent is to get the threat to go away. You get a guy in the knee with these and blow his patella up; he's not going to be running anywhere. But that all depends on the situation and one's individual assessment of that specific situation. Different environments/threats/people call for different reactions/preparedness. My question is, why doesn't anyone have multiple different types? Why do we have to commit to completely FMJ, or HPJ, or EFMJ? Get more mags and load differently depending on the area or the room or whatever. That's my thought anyway. Coming from absolutely no experience at all. Just saying.

@828enigma6

6 жыл бұрын

Unless they're jacked up on crack, meth, or some of the newer street drugs. That said, it's way better than throwing rocks.

I appreciate you sharing this because I never really understood the need for or reasoning behind this round. I don't think I would want to count on it in a self defense scenario.

excellent vid...I've really taken a liking to your ammo test, you do them well. ln this vid enjoyed the variety of testing mediums.. I am sure it isn't cheap to do that every time, but I really like liked the drywall kicker.

The only good EFMJ does is provide an alternative to Full Metal Jacket in states where hollow points are banned

@PyroAficionado

9 жыл бұрын

That and to be used in guns that don't like hollow points.

@k.g.alatore355

8 жыл бұрын

+Andy “Akela” Wolf The only US state I know of that actually does that is New Jersey, and that's only for carrying outside your home (though NJ rarely, if ever, issues concealed carry licenses to average people, so I'm not sure that matters)

@maroairpower

8 жыл бұрын

+Kim Alatore In Austria for instance its not allowed to buy and own semi jacketed ammo for handguns. Therefore the EFMJ is one of the few choices we have for good self defense ammo. The most prominent other ist the Expanding Mono Bloc (EMB) ammo from Fiocchi....

I disagree with under penetration being a negative quality. If the bullet travels a shorter distance into the gel than another with an equal velocity then that bullet has greater stoping power because it is despersing all of its energy in a shorter distance. Think of it as: it requires more braking to stop your car faster at a given speed than a slow gradual stop. Stoping quickly puts more force on the occupants I.E. a faster stoping bullet imparts more force on the target.

@elkhunter8664

9 жыл бұрын

Nice comment. I laughed at the 9" penetration not being effective. I measured myself and 9" would have gone through me just to my back and probably left a dimple in the skin. Maybe this is a round that should only be used on small skinny guys. Who knows? LOL.

@anthonydemayo9367

9 жыл бұрын

I agree with you. The energy dynamics for self protection purposes does not require penetration going through and beyond the target. Over penetration can cause the round to go through the intended target, and then go into an unintended one! Very important for home protection issues. FTO retired.

@MCBobbyE

9 жыл бұрын

***** this doesnt really simulate bone well though :P thats what the extra few inches are for

@JohnSmith-pp7ux

9 жыл бұрын

Perhaps, but the kinetic energy transfer is still so minimal (equal to the amount of force exerted on the hand of the person firing the gun) that the knockdown/stopping power really isn't a factor. Tissue damage and bleeding are what stops someone shot with a handgun.

@onmydignal

6 жыл бұрын

+Texas: That's faulty logic. The Fed Guard Dog round expands less and penetrates less than a typical non +P 9 mm HP due to its lighter weight, is underpowered and has smooth expansion petals that do not tear tissue. Mild recoil is further evidence that this round is underpowered -- reducing the 9mm to a .380 acp. You must understand that maximum "energy" received from the impact of this bullet can be no more than the shooter receives from the recoil -- since there is equal energy distributed in both directions when a cartridge is fired. A more appropriate analogy than yours would be: A lightweight passenger car can be stopped in a shorter distance than a heavy semi-truck, by comparison. Furthermore, you misunderstand the purpose of gel testing. In a real shooting, you will see much less bullet penetration in the human body due to tough skin, cartilage, muscle and bones. Gel testing is used merely as a consistent medium to compare the penetration and expansion of one cartridge design to another cartridge design.

i appreciate the tests you do. thanx keep doing them

great video, thanks for the work you put into it! I really like the round for strickly in home defense.

If you put this round right under the eye lid of either eye I am sure you will be pleased with the result. While I do enjoy watching your channel, there are times where you are over critical of a good design. For instance, federal did not design this round to go through 5 walls, and engine block and the tree outside. It is a nice expanding round and if you hit a bad guy with proper shot placement, they are down for the count. I appreciate you using the technical specs of 4 layers of denim, but how many bad guys are wearing 4 pairs of Levi jackets? Deep penetration in my opinion for a hand gun is way over blown as most situations you have background collateral that is in your sight picture and you certainly don't want a round to fly through the intended target and hit someone else. I sure as hell would not want a family member in the sight picture and have a Rambo round hit them because the guy shooting was so worried about how big his penetrator is.

@tnoutdoors9

9 жыл бұрын

The denim layers are an IWBA formal testing protocol. I'm just trying to incorporate some consistent standards. This round performed as it was designed, I give it credit for that. However, my personal preference, and that of every "pro" with whom I have spoken prefers deeper penetrating ammo....those guys are LEO's, former LEO's, military, and most have had to shoot someone in their career. I keep hearing about people being less than 10" thick, etc., which is probably true to a great extent. These tests and most others represent only soft tissue...no bone, or barriers such as a hand, arm, etc. Also, you have to consider the worst possible angle on the threat, as in, having to penetrate the right shoulder and thoracic cavity to make a direct hit on the key element in the cardiovascular system. In my part of the world with obesity being the norm, that is going to be 16" on average.

@bartoszbaranowski604

9 жыл бұрын

***** Just a newbie here, so I might be getting some stuff wrong, Still, expanding bullet would cause a lot of harm, even if it does hit bone( I think). IMO, what you have to consider in defense situation - case when you dont hit any hard tissue( ie, lower abdomen) - 22' penetration(Critical Duty, hornady) can cause some collateral in such case. Also consider that standalone houses are mostly popular in US, EU, asia, etc have different urban environment(Not that they dont exist, but not to such extent as in US). Thus, depending on housing technology, with 22' penetration you could injure/kill someone.

@FitPhysioTherapy

9 жыл бұрын

***** Your thinking is sound with respect to penetration. Holding a ruler up to a human body is a useless exercise that gives a false sense of security. For example I have attended medical lectures that report that human skin = 4 inches of calibrated gel. This comparison is technically close to accurate but misleading and requires a big effort to explain but just know a human is not a gel block and 10 inches in gel is very suspect in the real world. I am a doctor that worked at an inner city trauma center. I can assure you that deep penetration of at least 15 inches in calibrated gel (especially after 4 layers of denim which = more not less penetration compared to bare gel - 15 denim +gel = 13 of bare gel and way less in the real world) will reduce the chance (which is very real and occurs frequently with handgun wounds brought to the ER) of fail to reach vitals such as the heart aorta and spinal cord (but soooo much more that is to long and complex to explain here). However this round (which I would never carry) performs exactally as designed. It was designed to reduce the (over rated) risk of co lateral damage or injury to non combatants. 1) its shallow penetration reduces the (overrated) risk of penetrating the bad guy and yet still hitting and injuring a good guy behind him. 2) Unlike almost all other bullets this one expands/mushrooms quite well in most inanimate ballistic obstructions. This is a much more relevant feature - and will certainly make unintended injury less likely - compared as a % - it would probably make such injuries MUCH MUCH less likely. This round may be better suited to HD such as a crowded apartment then out on the street.

@onmydignal

6 жыл бұрын

+br8kawy: Your post may set a new record for (1) extreme hyperbole; and (2) overuse of strawman arguments -- both of which reveal your own admission that you have weak arguments that will not stand on their own. So, you make up ridiculous scenarios -- then mock those scenarios in an effort to make your point. That does not persuade any reasonable person. tnoutdoors9 is to be commended for using the same testing protocols as the FBI and other professionals -- as recommended by the highly respected IWBA.

@brandongambino7740

6 жыл бұрын

br8kawy you're ridiculous in a home or personal defense situation you're not gonna have time to pull off a headshot get real

As I understand it this Guard Dog ammo is designed specifically for home defense where over penetration is a major risk to others in the home. In today's internet world everyone goes on and on about penetration. Every new cartridge is judged by penetration. Any cartridge that doesn't make it through 4 or 6 layers of denim and 3 feet of ballistic gelatin is disparaged as being not up to task. Has anyone actually dealt with gunshot victims or had experience with actual shootings involving human beings? I have and that Guard Dog round tested here would have easily been lethal in a vital area. For some reason these days people seem to think that bad guys are almost bullet proof and you need the biggest, fastest, deepest penetrating ammo available or the bad guy is just going to shrug them off. I'm not saying don't use modern defense ammunition in your home defense gun or carry gun, I do, just don't get caught up in this whole penetration stuff. The FBI has certain standards because what they deal with is far different than the average citizen and they have to answer to politicians that don't know a thing about ballistics. If you live in an area where if you take a shot and it goes through a few walls it's definitely not going to hit someone, then by all means shoot whatever you like. Otherwise remember that Super Penetration 5600 Ultra Zinger is going through that bad guy and continue on at a velocity can penetrate and kill innocent people in it's path. Human beings are soft, squishy and very easy to put holes in if needed. The only thing you achieve with those super duper extra penetrators is the risk of injuring or killing an innocent person in the next room or in the next door neighbors house or the person on the sidewalk outside. Measure how thick you are through the chest with a coat on then make a ballistic block that thick, then shoot it and try to find that bullet. It's going to be difficult because it's going quite a ways. Bullet penetration and expansion is the name of the game in defensive ammunition but it only needs to go through the one person at a time and people aren't very hard to pierce even when wearing multiple layers of denim, we are incredibly fragile creatures that have very little natural protection from projectiles.

@lifted0422

10 жыл бұрын

we have bones ballistic gel does not

@theenhancer

10 жыл бұрын

The FBI set those standards for a reason. They know that the bullet needs to get to vital organs from any angle, through any clothing. Yes, a bullet going through the chest, right at the heart, if it bypasses the rib cage doesn't require much penetration at all. A bullet going through heavy clothing, and then through an arm , and then the rib cage isn't as likely. Early 9mm hollow point loads had just this problem. When you fire at an assailant, they likely aren't going to stand there at attention for you to get your best grouping. You might be fighting off a hail of blows. You might be taking a shot in dim light, or the dark. They might be behind furniture, or a low wall, or a car door. Even a little .22 Short can kill, but we carry a gun so we can stop the assailant NOW. How do we do that? We carry the most damaging round we can, practically.

@DianaGascon

2 жыл бұрын

@@lifted0422 If the first one doesn't neutralize the BG then you have (at least) 8 or 9 more where that one came from...

Thanks, I have been interested in this since I have been seeing it in the ads.

Really enjoy your vids, thanks! I picked up some of this ammo and some 147 gr hollow points to test side by side. I like the idea of less penetration but I noticed I can fire off more quick accurate shots with the 147 gr hollow points because of less barrel flip. I could also notice my recoil reducer from Sprinco working for me better with the 147 gr.

All you guys who are thinking that this round is safer for over-penetration weren't watching the video. The round had the same penetration shooting into a person as it does going through a wall first and doing it. This is actually the worst of both worlds, it still penetrates enough through walls to kill, but doesn't penetrate as well or reliable into the target as conventional hollow point loads.

@tnoutdoors9

10 жыл бұрын

THANK YOU, that is exactly the point.

@rainmechanic

10 жыл бұрын

Yeah... however a good test would be to shoot this gaurd dog and a 147gr hollowpoint into a 10 in block of gelatin with a sheet rock wall behind it... Then compare and see which passes through a piece of sheet rock afterwards.... The problem with a round that can expand and still penetrate 18-20 inches is that its most likely going to pass right through an attacker in your home and possibly still have enough wounding potential to kill a family member....These are great home defense rounds IMO...

@tnoutdoors9

10 жыл бұрын

rainmechanic The greatest majority of 9mm rounds, all weights, that I have tested since 2011 penetrated around 14". Only a couple of times has there been a pass through on a 22" block, and if I recall correctly, NONE of those were 147 grain. On the other hand, there have been some gimmick loads that failed to penetrate 10"....and this was one of those. Stopping the threat is first and foremost the objective. Otherwise, you've got a pissed off bad guy walking through your house with bullets in their body that stopped short of vitals.

@CastleDocrine87

10 жыл бұрын

***** Wouldn't these test REALLY make sense and matter if you only had one round? Now, I'm not a 9mm fan but I'm pretty sure with a G19 you have like 17 shots. So what are the odds that out of those 17 rounds a hand or something will be in the way every time? You have 17 chances to land a body shot. If you can't put down your attacker in 17 attempts then you're screwed!!!

@theenhancer

10 жыл бұрын

Because we aim carefully to hit vitals, using the best bullet technology available, to put down our attacker as quickly as possible. We want to stop the fight in the first few shots, not the 10th or the 16th. We don't want to spray ammo in the hopes of a successful defense, and we are accountable for every shot fired.

"only 8 1/2" of penetration" really? You dont think thats enough? How far do you think your organs are from your skin surface....in any direction? This round is plenty powerful and leaves a hole the size of a 50 caliber. I find some of these reviews to be silly.... Shooting through a wall or door to hit a bad guy? Last I checked you are not yet protecting your life at this point as he is on the other side of the door. Who the fuck would shoot through the wall, blind, into the kids room? Who wears four layers of denim on their chest? Even the long forgotten, rare denim jacket is only one layer probably over a tee shirt....

@jonathonwerner5968

10 жыл бұрын

I have to agree about penetration, only need 4 inches to reach the heart... Not every shooter is a marksman, this is ok for the average joe who keeps a piece to defend his home, but doesn't practice on a regular basis. Most 9mm's are double actions and in the heat of the moment the first shot is likely to miss fired by a novice shooter. There is a season called winter, it gets cold. People wear layers when it gets cold. Especially if they are poor, looking for a quick buck. I shouldn't have to explain these things you...

@shananagans5

10 жыл бұрын

Four layers of denim isn't as unlikely as it might first seem. Think about the buttons. The strip with the buttons is folded over & stitched as is the strip with the button holes. There is your 4 layers. A pocket is 2 layers plus the fabric of the jacket. That's 3 layers. If you hit the flap on the pocket, that's 2 layers on the flap, 2 layers on the pocket, plus the 1 layer in the body of the jacket. That's 5 total. Granted, not many people wear denim jackets anymore but lots of clothing & jackets have multiple layers like that so 4 layers of denim is probably a reasonably good test for a bullet to see how it performs through clothing.

@ciscoprog

10 жыл бұрын

@TheSoloAsylum I think the test through the wall is to measure damage done by misses (which are likely to be prevalent in real world situation) and hitting OP.

@TheAlmightySHMO

10 жыл бұрын

You also have to factor in bones and differet tissues on the way to those organs. The FBI looks for ammunition that will exceed the 12" penetration mark because of those factors. You dont want it going too far (over 18-20") or else you risk overpenetration.

@TheSoloAsylum

10 жыл бұрын

TheAlmightySHMO weird because I have never met a person a .22 would not kill.....12" will pass through most any part of a body. Just something to remember is a hammer gets 0" of penetration.

Everything you said was spot on, couldn't agree more. What was left unsaid was that penetration needs to account for things such as arms directly in the way of a center torso shot, heavy clothing, and potentially brush, light barriers or even light body armor. Many offering would over-penetrate without considering these factors, but with them you set your medium at little higher to ensure penetration without concern for small amounts of wasted energy. Continued.

Would you say this is good for close risk combat? where you might be shooting someone and the heavy bullets might got through an external wall and into a neighbors house or apartment? I personally do not see this ammo penetrating an exterior wall of a house but it did penetrate dry wall fairly easily.

seriously the wall test is one of the most sophisticated set ups for ammunition review. Thank you SOO much for the wall. I would really really like to know penetration in the back of a couch...seeing as how in a home defense situation this would be likely cover. plenty of free couches online lol

Such a pretty round, yet it does not give me a warm fuzzy for home defense. Thanks for the review!

Never seen these, great test you did.

My understanding of this round is that its a home defense round that was designed not to over penetrate walls. This is one I have purchased but not tested, based on that thought. Thank you for this info it is very informative.

when it comes to ammo testing your second to none. thanks.

your findings support what I thought of the load, Ive heard a lot of hype on this bullet, but when i heard that is was meant to under penetrate i had some serious doubts with it. Thanks for the video!

At age 55 and being a new shooter of just one year I tend to agree with the opinion of not having over penetration especially with the shooter taking responsibility of where the projectile goes once it leaves the victim. Great video, very informative.

Awesome test, interesting results thanks for doing these

Interesting & Informative as usual TN9, Keep up the great work!! Interesting take by Federal on the clogging issue of hollowpoints & the polymer plug. About only use for this bullet after your vid i can see, is for those scared to death of over penetration but not wanting to use regular FMJ bullets.

keep up the great work. i would love to see the drywall test in future videos.

:) Thank you for sharing this. You really shed a light on this fairly new round.

Great test and great ammo.may I ask what kind of video camera do you use..I'm I'm the market for a new video cam I was going to go with gopro but not sure if they have the zoom capabilities..

I had some of this ammo by federal 10 years ago. Glad they updated and still make it. Doubt they could bond the lead core without damaging the poly.

Hey Pal, Ur work is appreciated, Big time. On these videos, it's simple to explain that these Guard Dogs DO EXPAND Sir, it's just that "peel" back is not the mechanism that.creates its increased diameter, that is from the deformation from the resistance of the medium & the designed internal collapse of the projectile.

I have a research background and know a bit about scientific method. You videos are very structured and I enjoy the methodical way that you approach your testing as opposed to a yahoo sort of way (let's just shoot he hell out of of it) or simply issuing personal unproven opinions. I hope that you will be back doing these videos soon. Best wishes.

i could not wait for u to test this round. ty so much! thisis not the worst r pound u have test but its not the best, it wont be replacing my top 3 picks. for the 9mm. #1 124gr gold dot, 115gr critacal defense and 127 gr +p ranger t- series

Living here in Florida, IMO this is a good self defense round for indoors or outdoor self protection. I think it's performance is what I want in my EDC ammo!

WOAH. You went all out with this. That is a very interesting bullet design, and I almost think that design could be the way of the future of JHPs, if only the bullet could be a more conventional weight. With the way it uses the plastic, I don't think it would be possible in the design, which is unfortunate because it looks like it would feed well in just about anything, and it was consistent in expansion. Thanks for the test.

Terrific test, really appreciate all the work you put into this. if I recall correctly though wasn't low penetration for interior walls actually a selling point for this ammo that federal made? I seem to recall the marketing at specifically for home defense and not concealed carry,

I enjoy your videos! Can you or have you done a video on the hornady critical defense low recoil. It's the pink ribbon box. My wife uses these in her .38 spl... I've always wondered how well they really perform. Thanks!

@tnoutdoors9

8 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty much done with revolver videos.

Tnoutdoors, just wanted to let you know that the jacket seperation is designed. The jacked seperates to push the polymer block forward and expand, so essentially the bullet is expanded by being hit with a lot of force on each side. If you read into federal's materials you'll see it's made to do that to ensure expansion.

Thanks for the heads up on this ammo. I am not real fond of the 9MM because of the lack of stopping power but I still own a couple of 9MM.

I think those little bit of jacket separation is part of the design to help with expansion pressing against the polymer?

Nice video....looks like you covered it very well

great video, I like seeing a dry wall test like that. -Spencer

Very good, High detailed, well demonstarted Review.

Thanks for the test. Does it have a low flash signature at night?

Thanks for a well done and comprehensive review. The take away for me is that folks residing in jurisdictions that prohibit Hollow Point ammo are still out of luck. They cannot rely (stake their lives) on this as a reasonable substitute. As for me, I am making the change from Federal Hydra-Shok to their HST line. The problem is sourcing it in 9mm 124 grain. I've seen prices from $0.50 per round to almost $2.00 a round, however, regardless the price,the vendor is typically on backorder with the product.

the "jacket separation" looks 100% intentional and not a defect. The lead's forward inertia against the compressing polymer helps to squeeze and flatten the polymer out to create more surface area.

thanks for the tests, I know how much work you put into them and as a regular viewer I really appreciate it. Call me crazy, but i like the results of the test. I think 8 inches is adequete, because its a round that is designed to keep neighbors in mind. I think it's good for people who live in apartments. Now if I was a police officer there is no way i would carry it.

So would you recommend this round or the liberty civil defense round for ccw. keep in mind i am normally in populated areas and concerned about over penetration and hitting bystanders

great tests, excellently done, great job man

Excellent review , I really like this video because you shot threw dry wall . would love to see it threw GDHP or pdx1 .

Your videos are great so much detail.

This is the ammo I have on hand for home defense. Thanks for the useful info! Springfield xdm 9mm.

Thank you very much for doing these ammo tests! :D