That's exactly the one I mentioned in my comment under the other video.. the 1S mode only works right if you bridge the protection diode out, otherwise the whole module dims away below 3.5V instead of showing fewer bars than 3

One thing that the mfg could've considered was making the battery outline have a 1Hz flash rate when the final battery bar was cut out for being below threshold and serve as a indication to recharge the battery.

@kimchristensen2175

Жыл бұрын

If the microcontroller is flashable it would be a trivial matter to reprogram it to do that even if you had to start from scratch after erasing it.(Assuming it has copy protect enabled) Actually, it would probably be easier to erase it, rather than trying to decode the assembler listing. Depends on what type of language they used to write the source code. You'd also have to rewire the red LEDs to be controlled by a spare pin on the MCU.

@foogod4237

Жыл бұрын

@@kimchristensen2175 In my experience, the sorts of chips used for these sorts of applications are usually mask ROM or OTP, not reprogrammable. Even if it was, though, you'd need to know all of the details of the instruction set and chip architecture, which are quite possibly very nonstandard. It's probably not feasible without getting assistance from the company who makes them (who likely aren't interested in talking to anybody who's going to be ordering less than a few million of them at a time). It also might well not even be a microcontroller at all.. It could well be just a circuit similar to the other comparator design, just with everything prepackaged into a convenient chip...

@kimchristensen2175

Жыл бұрын

@@foogod4237 Could be. Looks like the pinout is close to one of the 12F or 10F series pics. I guess it could be swapped for one of those, but that's probably not worth the effort.

@data9309

Жыл бұрын

Can this be modified to work on even higher voltage batteries?

@kimchristensen2175

Жыл бұрын

@@data9309 I'm sure you could. You'd have to add a higher voltage rated pre-regulator ahead of the existing regulator or replace it with one rated for a higher voltage. And you'd have to modify the resistive divider to scale it properly to the higher voltage.

Very nice...definitely better than the other one IMO

@pauls5745

Жыл бұрын

actually a simple and robust circuit out of China. I'm impressed, esp if it's at a good price point

@kosmokramer9502

Жыл бұрын

@@pauls5745 They only cost about 12AUD for 10 incl shipping. Pretty damn cheap.

Thanks Clive, always great to see and hear your investigations of the electronics out there.

I was frightened by circuit, but when you explain it, felt so easy. Thanks

So frequently now I pull the lever on my easy chair and let you teach and entertain---that's relaxation! Happy New Year, many thanks for your easily digestible material. senior from Canada

@mikebarrett2621

Жыл бұрын

Totally agree, and Clive's soothing voiceover is just made for sipping whisky at the same time, but this can lead to missing the finer points of 'sschematic' analysis.

perfect for a project I'm working on right now... thanks Clive!

Nice little item, I like the display its big for older folk to see. 🔍 great video 2x👍

Nice a Clive video just in time it Looks pretty neat !

Really nice! I like the configurability.

Brilliant bit of kit I have a use for one of them thanks Clive

just used my first recycled vape lipo thanks to you. Stuck it on an esp32 with a neopixel ring and flashed with wled.lasts a good few hours on 50% brightness :) Next vape i find Im going to make my newly acquired novelty desktop henry, rechargable usb-c lol.

Excellent presentation.

I love your videos Clive. Looks like they are keeping 1.5 low to 2.1 volts max charge on the ADC pin. Hope people read the instructions before using more than one cell.

IVE BEEN LOOKING FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS FOREVER. I build custom guitars and my signature thing is putting a rechargeable battery in the guitar chargeable via type c directly into the instrument. Would LOVE to have a indicator built into to the back of it!!!!

It seems simple enough. Happy New Year! Good luck.👍

I know more than I need to, today.... Thats what makes tomorrow fun. Happy News Year BigC. xo.x.

I just watched the other vid 2 days ago. very vids again sir :) neat modules.

I like the idea of flashing the cell when >= 4.2 V. The only issue with this might be when used as a charging indicator, the voltage goes a little bit above the actual cell voltage, especially if there is a wiring voltage drop out to the physical cell location, which could give a false warning.

Using one with an 8way cheapy PCB mount slide switch to make a simple 1 - 8 cell selectable lipo battery tester. So handy, when you can put it in a box with different battery connectors to just plug an test. 👍

Thank you so much, i was trying to find something like this

Thanks, Clive 😁

I like this one, I shall have to go and buy some! There is another very similar battery indicator with more complex circuitry than either of those you have reviewed so far, it's based around a 14pin MCU and can only be bought preconfigured for batteries in 1S, 2S, 3S etc. I'm sure it can be reconfigured by changing something as simple as a resistor on the board.

@kit-geoffbullough8788

Жыл бұрын

I was just thinking the same thing - An A to D and a bar graph LED for £ 1. 5 , from Amzon UK and 1 resistor sounds useful

@catmadscot

Жыл бұрын

@@kit-geoffbullough8788 If you don't mind waiting they're only about 50p from AliExpress.

Very handy indeed.

And A happy new year to you sir 🥃👍

Happy new year, Clive! I've just backed you on Patreon.

@bigclivedotcom

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. It's greatly appreciated.

@TheGunnarRoxen

Жыл бұрын

@@bigclivedotcom no worries. It is a pleasure to be able to support someone as cool as you. Your videos have taught me a lot.

Happy New Year Clive.

In the "features that would have been nice" category, I'd put a DW01 or something like that to kill the circuit if the voltage drops too low. Those red LEDs could easily pull the voltage below 2v.

Nice looks good for projects where you need to be able to see the battery level at a glance or you probably could wire in a momentary switch and use it as a checker on projects but then you'll have to hold the button down but it may be better that way depending on you application

'potentially being overcharged'. love it.

Your comment on flashing for overcharge depends on how they're referencing the ADC. If they're using a Fixed Voltage Reference (literally the FVR in PIC land, either 1.024V, 2.048V or 4.096V), then if the ADC input exceeds that reference, the ADC reading will just saturate and be pegged at (2^n) - 1, unfortunately losing that overvoltage detection. Having said that, I guess a competent designer would've sized the potential divider to not use the entire full-scale range, thus allowing such a saturated reading to be handled in software... Maybe they even did that and were just lazy and skimped on the animation... I guess we'll never know.

@clynesnowtail1257

Жыл бұрын

Well, looking at 8-cell, with it at 33.6V full charge its at 2.1V on the ADC input. So they picked the 2V reference, and it will already be saturated before it even hits full charge.

@adzib1823

Жыл бұрын

@@clynesnowtail1257 Mega, thanks for doing some maths for me, apparently I was too lazy at the time? 😂 I guess same goes for the single cell as well, right? 4.2V into a 10k / 10k divider would give 2.1V into the ADC, and same thing happens again.

@Curt_Sampson

Жыл бұрын

Well, the issue with not using the full range is that you lose accuracy, and given that you'd want to be looking for something a bit over 4.2 V (single cell) for "saturated," you're then looking at covering 50% more range. I have always wondered how accurate these ADCs are; would using only two thirds of the full range for the "non-overloaded" levels make the accuracy significantly worse? Perhaps not, in an application like this....

@adzib1823

Жыл бұрын

@@Curt_Sampson Not sure I quite follow what you're saying. In the case of this module, the full range of the ADC is (probably) 0V - 2.048V (using an internal reference, called an FVR, inside the microcontroller). By using the FVR, you no longer have to worry about the supply voltage of the microcontroller affecting the ADC measurements. For a fully charged cell at 4.2V, being fed into a resistor divider made of two 10k resistors (the 1S setting on this module) you get 2.1V fed into the ADC. 2.1V > 2.048V so percentage wise, you're attempting to use 102% of the range. Due to how the ADCs are physically built in the silicon, this will be 'constrained' to 100% of the value. Thus, even if the cell was sitting at say 5V (grossly overcharged), the ADC would see 2.5V, but the digital conversion would still read the same as if the cell was actually at 4.2V (providing a 2.1V input) since, in both cases the ADC is saturated. Regarding accuracy, most micros of this type I'd expect to have at least an 8-bit ADC. 2.048V / 256 steps = 8mV/step. Scaling this value UP by the ratio of the resistor divider gives (for the 1S divider) 16mV resolution across the cell. Presumably that value is pretty much constant in terms of a 'per cell' error, assuming all cells are at least roughly balanced. EDIT: ADC saturation doesn't necessarily equate to device damage.

@abitofabitofabit4404

Жыл бұрын

@@adzib1823 I think your 2.048V hypothesis is flawed. The natural output voltage of a band gap reference is about 1.22V. Any other reference voltage is likely to demand individual device trimming. Many cheap microcontrollers with ADCs, for example the ATtiny5/10, tie the internal reference input to Vcc and let the designer worry or not about a clean supply rail. PIC12F609 isn't much fancier, offering a 1.1V band gap and a 4-bit digipot between the supply rails, the latter borrowed from the comparator module. That's plenty when you have a regulated supply rail and don't need great accuracy, or you are using the common idiom of a pot between the rails as a physical control input.

Cute! Might buy one myself

I think I might buy one or two of these little devices. Thanks.

I always like a good schemematic.

It's my birthday today and my personal battery level is definitely at half these days with some serious parasitic drain!

@peterjf7723

Жыл бұрын

My birthday as well. Happy birthday.

@bigclivedotcom

Жыл бұрын

Happy birthday to you both.

@psneternityinanhour

Жыл бұрын

@@bigclivedotcom Thank you Clive 😊

Very similar to what I did with an Atmel TINY85 microcontroller. Used Green/Yellow/Orange/Red LEDs is sequence to indicate the state of charge of a 3 cell battery pack running a Raspberry Pi, and with a critical low charge output to initiate a graceful shutdown of the Pi.

I think that the voltage divider could be slightly easier and cheaper to manufacture if the top row of the resistors would be in series instead of in parallel. This way it could be made with a 10k resistor and a bunch of 20k resistors or even with just 10k resistors instead of a bunch of different resistor values.

Happy new year dood…………………

nice. thank you

Would be fun applying the LM324+LM431 design to this initial set of parallel resistors. Real fun is getting a high enough LM324 supply in the single cell configuration without getting too high in the 8 cell configuration with 8x4.7V on the input. Maybe it would need to underpower a 5V regulator.

Wonder if it is multiplexing the green led bars, given 1 resistor for all 4. The intensity seems unaffected by how many are on, suggesting they are doing it.

Neat. I'm really tempted to get one of these and slap a set of different sized connectors typically used with lithium cells on it. Maybe there's even a way to get a rotary or sliding switch for the cell selector… hm…

Happy New year Clive, will you be getting the ones that display a percentage instead of 4 leds next ???????? :-)

I have one that can measure up to 8s lipo, showing voltage display scrolling via 3 7 segment displays and can warn (very loud beeper) if battery voltage is below a set voltage, I would love to see it back engineered by you Clive. Great Video as always thanks.

I do like the option to change

And that's fine, if your resistors are in specification, I had one similar and not one of the resistors put in the board werewhat was marked on the board itself, as a result it was 30% off, I changed every single one and now its within 5

Neat unit. I bought three. Identical except the V regulator is a 7133. 3.3 volts. I’ve used them in a model boat that gets quite a lot of condensation. So painted on conformal coating to help. But so far, after about six outings, I’ve had two fail. Using them on six cells. Lipo. V regulator and the micro have blown. Dunno why yet. Spikes when I connect the battery ? I have one left. I’m thinking maybe I’ll increase the value of the current limiting resistor (560R) to reduce the current through the micro when all bars are on …. The bars are very bright so should be ok …. we’ll see. Thanks for the video. 😊

Super bro 👍 #TheProjectLab

Certainly a bit more useful with the options for different battery pack voltages on this module... :P

Reminds me of one of those LED 7 Segment displays.

I bought some of these exact ones off of Ebay, there was only the 2 wires for connecting only one battery and they were all being sold as a 3.7v 18650 battery meter.

"Hey... Who turned out the lights?"

I usually just lick the end to see how full they are - tend to be a bit floppy if fully discharged.

Nice update compared to the other one. But which has the lower consumption?

Cool 😎little module 👍🇮🇪💚🙏🏼🔋

Now I can add this feature to the lower grade Ryobi One packs..

Took me 3 minutes to realise my phone was displaying the video upside down.

I don’t understand half this stuff, but still love the videos. 😂

And of course, one can be clever and use parallel combinations of the resistors to work with other types of cell like NiMH.

Another neat trick would have been a brightness selection (bridgeable solder pads) I have a few in my bluetooth projects and for indoor lighting these things could do away even with 40-50% brightness. Do you reckon replacing the 560R resistors with a 1k or 2k ohm will do the trick or would it interfere with the calibration/settings. Anyways, great video as always C.

@bigclivedotcom

6 ай бұрын

You should be able to change the LED resistors without affecting the calibration.

Thanks for the video. I saw this battery level indicator, or something very much like it, on Think Robotics' website with SKU ELC2003. Did you get that indicator from Think Robotics?

I think the led is OK. I could be wrong but I think I had a batt charger that hat a LCD bargraph maybe you can get one of those to show off. Might of been over 5 years ago on the energizer aa charger. I don't think I have one at the moment. But I did make a big version for arduino on someone programmed code on the display.

Idea for future video. To tear down "analog" LCD tablet with clear button. It has a little PCB inside with voltage booster that clear the LCD. I couldn't find any video of any of them disassembled. I opened mine because the button stopped clearing the screen, even though the battery voltage is ok. Turns out it exceeded battery current capability (~15mA) when spiking voltage. To open the device the screen has to be simply pulled off.

I can't help noticing that there is one apparently unused pin on that chip, which makes me wonder if the IC itself might actually have some extra functionality which just wasn't actually implemented by this particular board. It would be interesting to monitor that pin and see if it does anything interesting as voltages change...

Cool..

Just like the one I use on my photon cannon 😂

I was surprised the other unit with quad op amp and lots of SMD devices wasn't a simple microcomputer like this. It makes me wonder on cost. Can a quad op amp and discreets be less than a micro (especially a three cent one)? I was surprised to see a common resistor for the LEDs. For regulator power you have to include the LEDs, so seems like the few milliamp is with no LEDs on? Or else they are very low power too.

I bought one of those and a 3s bms for use in a 12V lithium pack, does that mean I have to "short" the 3rd resistor to tune it for my pack? All I need now is a good DIY spot welder, got any idea/video showing how to and not to build one, I really would like your advise on that one Clive. Ps. how much power do that indicator use and should I put it on a momentary switch to avoid the discharging?

Well, if it was smart enough, it could do that with only one voltage divider, even if it was speculating a bit, but detecting SoC based on voltage anyhow is guesswork. Edit: Anyone remembering Basic Stamp? And how it used a single slop measuring technique to measure voltage with a single pin and a timer? ADCs are expensive! Could be changing colors based on the number of cells also, even smarter! hmmm...

With the single shared 560R for the four bars, does the brightness change noticeably with the number of lit bars? Or is the micro-controller actually only lighting one at a time so that they each see 25% duty cycle, regardless of how many neighbours are lit?

The red should be over charging since the battery pack most likely will turn off anyway when under voltage is reached and it does not reach 36v then?

Hm, no cap(s) close to the regulator? That might give it a nice swing. BTW, datasheet says 1microF in input and output.

Are you certain this will work on Lithium batteries? I was lead to believe they give a linear voltage output until they switch off, unlike agm/lead acid?

[Clulow (pronounced /klo͞o/ /lō/ "one low in clues" but not clueless)]. Interesting and educational analysis as in all BC Videos. In my projects, however, I prefer the modules which display numeric voltage / pushbutton to activate. Perhaps this module might find use in a consumer product where a "dumb" SOC indicator is a good option. But I cannot imagine using this, unless of course I were designing a circuit for the future me wherein I'm finding it difficult to remember how to turn on my computer.

A universal version would have two potentiometers to set high and low thresholds.

The Clive, I have a question, when you have a discharge resistor across a capacitor, does it not almost entirely negate the effect of the capacitor, so much as to be useless, or, could not a lower value be used in its place, or, if one is used early in a circuit, should not an inductor be placed somewhere after it to maintain any dropout which might be caused by said resistor 👀 or am I being stupid

@bigclivedotcom

Жыл бұрын

There are many applications that use a resistor across a capacitor. It still has a "storage tank" effect to give a stable voltage.

@phonotical

Жыл бұрын

@@bigclivedotcom I sense a but, there...

can these be wired upto a battery continuously ? or can it only be a "checker" under no load ? (correct for terrible grammar)

@bigclivedotcom

10 ай бұрын

It would pose a slight current draw continuously.

Could you check out the "HW-586 Capacity Tester Meter Li-ion Lithium Battery" .. it is just a couple bucks more but seems to have so many more features like capacity testing and such.. ;)

@bigclivedotcom

Жыл бұрын

I've actually had one sitting here for years. But never really tested it properly.

There is one problem here with the indicator : The LED s are continuously on whether you are charging or discharging the battery.Which means,even after unplugging the charger, LED s will be on draining the battery. Do correct me if I am wrong .Thank you .

Is this the up-date to those batteries that had a button on the side that when pushed perported to show how much charge was left? Did you ever "Do", one of these?

@bigclivedotcom

Жыл бұрын

I did make a video about the duracell battery indicator.

If it was me I think I would have had a transistor on the last o/p that actually switched the red outline on when the battery was flat!

@bigclivedotcom

Жыл бұрын

No transistor needed. It could probably be done with the spare pin on the microcontroller.

@wino99999

Жыл бұрын

@@bigclivedotcom Yes but you would have to re-program for that, vs a couple of discrete components...

I wonder if you could wire it to an 8 way switch so that you could adjust it depending on how many batteries you wanted to charge in a multi bank charging rack

@bigclivedotcom

Жыл бұрын

Theoretically, yes.

@UserUser-ww2nj

Жыл бұрын

@@bigclivedotcom I have a 7 bay charger but it has an LCD display showing percentage . I have itchy fingers to get the screwdrivers out now 😂

BC: You mention a missed trick in displaying an overcharge condition by blinking the 4 bars. How would the schematic change to allow for this or would it be done with software in the MCU?

@bigclivedotcom

Жыл бұрын

It could be done entirely in software.

5:47 Did you try? The micro can't see which programming resistor is connected. I bet the chip is just a 2.1V bar graph with a big offset.

Would it of been possible to make one with a 2 digit lcd display to display it in a percentage?

@bigclivedotcom

Жыл бұрын

They probably exist.

Any idea what micro controller these companies use? I am working on a project and am using an ATTiny85 and wonder if what they use could be better or cheaper.

@bigclivedotcom

Жыл бұрын

There are many cheap microcontrollers like Padauk chips in mass produced products.

@CDE.Hacker

Жыл бұрын

@@bigclivedotcom thanks. As I mentioned I have a big project coming along and cheap microcontrollers might come in handy.

I've always hated the way the actual indicator looks. I put bluetooth stereos in weird things. That sci-fi battery rarely matches aesthetically. I could probably use this and port out my own LEDs... duh.

Do you have a link where can these be purchased?

@bigclivedotcom

Жыл бұрын

I got it from a local eBay seller.

Surprised that they didn't just use 3 jumpers. binary for 0-7 (Number of cells - 1). Would have had the same encoding with fewer parts and no likeliness for bad jumper combinations.

Früh morgens... wünschte ich du würdest etwas "sprechen" ;) greetz

What happens if you bridge two pads, say the one and three position?

@bigclivedotcom

Жыл бұрын

It will give an intermediate voltage threshold.

4 off E96 series resistors. That's a bit unusual.

Anyone have a link of where to buy?

Its a shame that this battery level display unit doesn't go up to monitoring 9 cells at 36v dc which would be quite a common battery pack voltage, unless you can modify the unit to do so.

@bigclivedotcom

Жыл бұрын

If used for brief tests on a balanced system you could tap it off just a few cells to get an indication of the entire pack's charge status.

Do they make an LCD panel voltmeter this small?

@bigclivedotcom

Жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure they do.

Possibly not so useful for LFP (Lithium Ferro Phosphate) cells? They don't seem to be easy to gauge the stored capacity based on voltage and systems have resorted to measuring the inflow / outflow currents and setting the high / low tide marks when hit. Obviously smarts with persistent memory are required for these. I believe this is why some people are running their cars flat and then fully charging them to "retrain" the BMS as to the total capacity of the battery banks.

Is the nice lady there? I-I-I Ice cream, ice cream. Hey, who turned out the lights?

Any chance of an affiliate link Clive so you can make a few pennies on my next purchase?

How to hack it to use as car battery voltage indicator?

It would be interesting to see you try to recreate something youve reverse engineered, something that doesnt need specific programming you dont have access to or some such of course.