What do you think about Walt Disney? Let's chat! Correction: The homophobic Mickey Mouse comic I show was actually written and drawn by Floyd Gottfredson, who drew the Mickey Mouse comics from May 1930 onward until his retirement in 1975. Sorry about that. I think it still fits in my argument, though, because of how it showed what Walt was fine with being under his brand and name (it was still signed by him).

@nuclearpancake3683

Жыл бұрын

pretty neutral tbh

@randomhuman_05

Жыл бұрын

I still definitely look up to him for his work and innovation, but I also understand that he did terrible things. Painting him as pure evil like a lot of people are doing is also wrong, because he just wasn’t, even though he still did terrible things (according to the evidence we have). He was still a man who cared about the world, animals, art, and just people in general, almost everyone who worked with him at WED described him as kind. He wasn’t a saint, that’s for sure, but he wasn’t a complete monster either. Bad people can do bad things, and good people can do bad things, I truly can’t say where he would fall, or if he would be somewhere in the middle.

@DreamsoundsVideo

Жыл бұрын

@@randomhuman_05 I definitely understand that take. I guess I say all I have to say about him in this video, but I do get genuine inspiration from his creativity and artistic vision. And who we often think of as Walt is more of his public persona. But, of course there are many things to criticize. In making this video I tried to talk about how we can process and deal with all of that when talking about him.

@randomhuman_05

Жыл бұрын

@@DreamsoundsVideo absolutely! I will never not criticize bad things people do. It’s so hard to talk about people while also understanding that people can be complicated, as well as doing both bad and good things. People usually either see people as 100% good or bad, but Walt was somewhere in between with his actions. It’s so hard, especially because we have to remember that different people have different experiences, ect. (Sorry if this is worded weird, I do agree with pretty much everything you’ve said). It’s just a mess. Keep up the wonderful work,

@alejandrovelez6358

Жыл бұрын

To be honest, good people in reality do bad things sometimes. Walt Disney had his flaws, but to be fair, not everyone is perfect. Every legendary people that wanted search for perfection aren’t perfect. Walt Disney, George Lucas, Shigeru Miyamoto, Steve Jobs, John Lassater, etc. They all had flaws, but they aren’t bad soulless dickheads like most Hollywood corporations are nowadays.

As a Jew can I just say that you can definitely be antisemitic and be against the Nazis. Lots of people who fought in WW2 were still antisemitic and the fact they were against the Nazis does not excuse this. While I have mixed opinions on Disney the US war propaganda was probably more about American patriotism than a hate for what the Nazis were doing.

@Ebrill_Owen

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, in America at the time, people didn’t hate Nazis because of what they were doing to Jewish people, they hated Nazis because they feared being taken over by them. It was never anger on behalf of the Jewish population.

@DreamsoundsVideo

Жыл бұрын

This is a good point, thank you for your comment. When I mentioned his supposed change after making propaganda films for the US government, it was in reference to the contrast of the films with his previous encounters/alleged associations with Nazis that I spoke about. It was not my intention to imply that affected the antisemitic things I spoke about earlier in the video.

@ecoRfan

Жыл бұрын

Although the Nazis did commit terror against America, sinking ships with torpedoes, plotting to bomb infrastructure, etc. But yeah. One can be a full blooded fascist and still hate Nazi Germany. In terms of racism and antisemitism, there are certainly parallels on either side of the ocean.

@zainmudassir2964

Жыл бұрын

The KKK is anti-semite and was anti-Nazi because they considered themselves Anglo-Saxon and anti-Catholicism (Hitler and much of Southern Germany were Catholics). identities are complicated racists move the goalposts all the time

@BBWahoo

Жыл бұрын

Jewcy

Mister Rogers came to mind while watching your video when he wrote, “Sometimes people are good, And they do just what they should. But the very same people who are good sometimes, Are the very same people who are bad sometimes. It’s funny, but it’s true. It’s the same, isn’t it for me… Isn’t it the same for you?”

@mikaylaeager7942

Жыл бұрын

This is a lovely quote! Thank you for sharing!

@jeremycunninghamtheoldsoul8686

Жыл бұрын

Huge Mr. Rogers fan here, thank you so much for sharing this ♥️

@Holobrine

Жыл бұрын

There is truth to that but I still know people have done some bad things I wouldn’t do in a million years lol

@Fireberries

Жыл бұрын

Never grew up with Mr Rogers as it never aired here, but I wish it had, and I wish I grew up with it. That's a wonderful quote. I will be playing Mr Rogers to my kids if I manage to have any

@nathanblevins158

5 ай бұрын

That why I like mister roger and walt Disney. One man is kind man who help others and respects all people and man who filled his dream. But even a great person can do bad things but if we face the consequences. Walt was a man who respect people but had anger in his mind especially around the film “dumbo” came out at the time.

People tend to forget the Sherman Bros. were both first generation Jewish Americans. And two of his 9 Old Men - Milt Kahl and Marc Davis - were also Jewish. He was known to make jokes and use insensitive terms. But on the other hand there was Gyo Fujikawa, a very talented Japanese-American artist who later became a successful illustrator, and who had to leave California after Pearl Harbor to escape the forced internment, and Walt personally visited her to offer his sympathy and told her "you shouldn't have to go through this just because of your background."

@Anna-xh6fk

Жыл бұрын

Wow he was fine w marginalized people creating art under his name to give Disney™️ fame and fortune. What a hero for employing Jewish people who he could mock and when employees wanted better working conditions, he could call communists and have union advocates blacklisted🙄

@WillScarlet16

Жыл бұрын

@@Anna-xh6fk I didn't say employing and showing support for people makes him a saint, but making jokes and occasionally insensitive remarks doesn't make him an outright Nazi either. It's not as simple as people keep trying to make it.

@Magic3Star

Жыл бұрын

Not to mention Floyd Norman being the first African-American to become one of Walt’s animators, debunking the theory of Walt being super racist against that race

@finland4ever55

Жыл бұрын

@Khaled Shanshal Sad he had to animate anti-Thai characters in the Siamese cat sisters Si and Am, who due to the Japanese shamisen melody the song's set to, ended up being anti-Japanese too (also note that the original names for Si and Am referenced Japan. Am's name was Tuck, but Si's was worse: she was straight up called Nip, so do with that what you will). Don't think Walt is good or bad, he was obviously not perfect. P.S. It's a Small World, the ride about peace and harmony that depicted non white cultures normally was made by HIM , but it's odd that his cartoons were mocking (intentional or not).

@ron4202

Жыл бұрын

@Khaled Shanshal So you hate being aware of injustices? Coolio, youre useless...

He was definitely not the world’s greatest person. Yes, he did say and do some super messed up stuff, in his earlier shorts (which was wrong and should be talked about). However, there is absolutely no proof to support so many things that he allegedly said/believed. No, I won’t use the “it was a different time” because that doesn’t excuse anything, but the amount of false information around Disney is also upsetting, because it’s just inaccurate. There’s just so much nuance with this, It’s just confusing.

@Superpooch97

Жыл бұрын

But it was at a different time. It was not ok but it was at a time where people did these things and they thought that was ok. We live in a different time now. So yes it was a different time we can’t fault our older generation on things we know now

@randomhuman_05

Жыл бұрын

@@Superpooch97 ok, but we can’t pretend like those things are acceptable, even if they were seen as such at the time. It wasn’t ok then, and it’s not ok now, even if it was seen as ok then.

@mikaylaeager7942

Жыл бұрын

@@randomhuman_05 I think the point of “it was a different time” is that we shouldn’t assume ourselves to be inherently superior to the generations that came before us. We have the benefit of growing up being told that things once thought of as right and acceptable are in fact wrong and always have been. There is no reason for you to believe that if you had grown up in their time being fed the same information they had that you wouldn’t have thought the same as them. I sometimes think of the things that are seen as right and/or acceptable now, and how they will be judged by future generations. Disposable plastic. Driving gas cars. Industrial agriculture. Assigning gender at birth. Punitive justice systems. Commercialization of basic human necessities like housing, medicine, and food. I think about how these generations will look back and think “how could these people live in a society that accepted these things.” The truth is we don’t get to decide what society we are born into and not everyone has the privilege of completely separating themselves from all the negative parts of society. As an individual all we can do is enact whatever small change we are personally capable of in order to marginally improve the objectively flawed society in which we live our lives. This is not a excuse however for older generations living today, who have all the information we do, and still choose to stand by the antiquated values of their youth. I do not subscribe to the absurd notion that the old are incapable of understanding anything new. They choose not to, either because they don’t care or because changing would inconvenience them. Wow. This is a long comment! I guess it’s just something that’s been weighing pretty heavily on my mind lately. Thanks for reading if you made it this far!

@Superpooch97

Жыл бұрын

@@randomhuman_05 that I agree with it was not ok then it not ok now. But again it was a during a time where we as a society did not know better. But we keep moving forward

@Superpooch97

Жыл бұрын

@@randomhuman_05 I think a lot of people did not know better back in the 30’s but we learn for history to not make those same mistakes again . And I feel like everyone is flawed. All good people are flawed like Walt and you and me. No one is really perfect and we are not striving for perfection

This video perfectly summarizes my feelings. I’m a massive Disney fan. I’m also Jewish and queer. Some people are unwilling or unable to discuss this topic with any nuance. I love the art of Walt Disney, and I’m very inspired by his accomplishments. That doesn’t mean that I think he’s above criticism, and it doesn’t mean that I approve of everything he ever did. At the same time, there are a lot of false stories about Disney, and people often speculate about things that cannot be proven or disproven. Walt Disney did good things and bad things. He wasn’t just “Uncle Walt” and he wasn’t simply an evil tyrant. He was complicated, as many human beings are.

@KidBohemia

Жыл бұрын

@@mongomaddy yes, I’m Jewish and queer. :)

it's so difficult to talk about him either he's the most vile evil greedy human being or you put him on a pedestal and he's grandpa walt can do no wrong "my childhood" must be protected. there's no nuance or intelligent conversation based on fact

@thehoardedgrotto8521

Жыл бұрын

People don't like when they can't put you in a box so they ignore details that don't fit.

@moonbunny24

Жыл бұрын

Pretty much. It feels like both side are often rectionary to one another, also. Like, the first times I heard about the bad side of Walt Disney was from seeing videos/articles guaranteed to "ruin your childhood." So obviously there's bias there. And then the people who overlook ANY wrongdoings to "protect their childhoods" are often in direct response to the "childhood ruiners." Then the other side just swings back harder along with people who were thoroughly convinced that Walt Disney was basically the devil himself by a Cracked article they read when they were 13. Neither side has any need for nuance because they're often just saying things to double down on their preconceived notion of Walt Disney and actively holding those beliefs in a combative way. At least that's MY experience seeing people fight over the type of person he was.

@pivotalpancake5454

Жыл бұрын

He's human, he's flawed. Not a saint or the devil.

@60sspider-man29

Жыл бұрын

@@pivotalpancake5454 but definitely a dick.

@notmyfirstlanguage

Жыл бұрын

@@thehoardedgrotto8521 "There are precious few at ease / with moral ambiguities, / so we act as though they don't exist." -Stephen Schwartz

Thank GOD for this video. I've always found that talking about Walt online is usually not worth the effort, given people see zero nuance and believe every single thing they hear. Its easy to hate Disney as a company (girl, same), but we can have conversations about the man behind it all without making stuff up and treating it as fact. He wasn't perfect, he wasn't a saint, no one is. But he also wasn't a cartoonish tyrant either.

Probably the best way to describe Walt was as you said towards the end, "a man stuck in his ways". He could very much be the caring, generous, creative guy his larger-than-life persona would suggest, but he was also still a man with deep flaws who made deeply questionable choices, usually for business reasons but sometimes for misplaced personal reasons. Like anyone else, all we can really do is fight the urge to put him on a pedestal and take him for the sum of his works.

I wonder if we’ll ever get tired of watching people get placed on pedestals only to be knocked off them by those same people later on when they realize they’re not the perfect caricature they often never claimed to be, or were clearly putting on a persona that wasn’t real. It’s that same parasocial relationship we build with all media, that has recently been given a name but existed for longer than we can imagine. Above all else I think Walt was a creative genius, a capitalist, and a PR master. He clearly had a passion for his work and a dream in his mind that he pursued like crazy. He was a businessman who knew how to take that dream and make it something people would pay for and that would be enjoyed and treasured by people alike. He knew how to present himself to market his product and further his creative endeavors. And my own personal, opinionated, unfounded belief is that he is the kind of guy who may have biases and outright hate for a group but is willing to look past the things he deemed negative for the sake of creative artistry and capitalism. If he was antisemitic, he probably knew how to keep it from keeping away Jewish creatives. If he was homophobic, he probably didn’t want to know enough about his employees to know who was or wasn’t, if the work was getting done. People trying to paint him as some hand-wringing bigoted villain are just as misguided as people who get frustrated when he isn’t an ally for equality on par with modern-day people. Very, very, very few people in his day were as open minded as we are now. Of course there will be instances of him being sexist, racist, and more- the majority of straight white guys back then WERE! It doesn’t make it acceptable, but we can’t look back and condemn him for not seeing this far into the future when he was raised in the time he was.

@lovelo8780

Жыл бұрын

As Defunctland said "Walt was a simple man and at the same time, a very complicated one, he was a futurist that traded in nostalgia, a conservative obsessed with progress, a gentle mentor with an impatient temper"

I think the value in saying “they were a product of their time” or “it was a different time” is not to absolve someone of all wrongdoing but to remind us that we shouldn’t assume ourselves to be inherently superior to the generations that came before us. We have the benefit of growing up being told that things once thought of as right and acceptable are in fact wrong and always have been. There is no reason for you to believe that if you had grown up in their time being fed the same information they had that you wouldn’t have thought the same as them. I sometimes think of the things that are seen as right and/or acceptable now, and how they will be judged by future generations. Disposable plastic. Driving gas cars. Industrial agriculture. Assigning gender at birth. Punitive justice systems. Commercialization of basic human necessities like housing, medicine, and food. I think about how these generations will look back and think “how could these people live in a society that accepted these things.” The truth is we don’t get to decide what society we are born into and not everyone has the privilege of completely separating themselves from all the negative parts of society. As an individual all we can do is enact whatever small change we are personally capable of in order to marginally improve the objectively flawed society in which we live our lives. This is not a excuse however for older generations living today, who have all the information we do, and still choose to stand by the antiquated values of their youth. I do not subscribe to the absurd notion that the old are incapable of understanding anything new. They choose not to, either because they don’t care or because changing would inconvenience them. Wow. This is a long comment! I guess it’s just something that’s been weighing pretty heavily on my mind lately. Thanks for reading if you made it this far!

@mightyfilm

Жыл бұрын

I tend to think about how a LOT of humor from those early days of animation came from cheap ethnic jokes, and how it's not like there wasn't a feeling of knowing it was was wrong, just no one spoke out against it, and even if they did, no one cared. I agree, saying "it was a different time" isn't so much forgiving or absolving or handwaving any of that, so much as stating the fact that things were seen as completely acceptable at a certain time until we slowly decided they weren't. Disney was FAR from the only animation studio making those...ehhh... unfortunate stereotypes. I seem to recall Tom and Jerry doing a LOT of blackface explosion jokes too, and while everyone talks about Song of the South, we forget about "All This and Rabbit Stew," a Bugs Bunny cartoon that replaced Elmer Fudd with a very cringey black stereotype. Also, as a Rescue Rangers fan, I'd like to point out that those stereotypes aren't even a distant past thing that died with Walt. There's a couple really unfortunate Asian portrayals in there as well as a VERY unflattering couple of Jamaican Fruit Bats voiced by white guys. The show came out in 1989!

@mikaylaeager7942

Жыл бұрын

@@mightyfilm Yeah, it was SO pervasive! Even if you were someone that saw all these jokes and thought this is gross, it would probably feel like a losing battle to say anything about it. I know this is how I felt growing up in the 2000’s - the golden age of homophobia and and creepy male behavior being played as a joke. The most I could do was not watch it myself. As a result I was convinced I just didn’t like comedy, full stop. It wasn’t until I discovered comedians that didn’t use this brand of humor that I even realized there was an alternative.

@mightyfilm

Жыл бұрын

I find it kinda shocking about how recent certain things were still considered perfectly okay, though at least with more recent stuff you can pin-point the exact moment that we realized those things were okay. Hell, the term "re***d" was an accepted slang term up until maybe 10-15 years ago, especially in my area. To say nothing of the "F" slur.

@mikaylaeager7942

Жыл бұрын

@@mightyfilm It’s actually amazing how much has changed in a short time. People were so casually homophobic when I was in high school. Gay was used every other sentence as a synonym for stupid and I didn’t know a single person who was publicly out. My sister is 5 years younger and by the time she was in high school everyone was openly exploring their gender and sexuality and covering everything they owned with rainbows. I do think things are getting better. We just can’t be so comfortable that we let reactionaries pull us backward without even noticing it’s happening. We have to be constantly pushing forward and ever vigilant.

It's nice to find a nuanced discussion about this topic - I've always seen Walt as a really, really savvy businessman who was good at what he did and charismatic. But I've never deified or villified him. He was a person, not an angel *or* a devil. Thanks, Marlene!

@MrNoodlesyet

Жыл бұрын

Only sensible take in this video/comment section

This video just proves that we need to take a bit of our celebration for Walt, and give it to those marginalized members of the company. Floyd Norman, the Sherman Brothers, Mary Blaire, Bon Gurr, just to name a few, were all able to become incredibly influential pioneers within the company, known for their incredible work alongside being trailblazers for being who they were. Let’s give them some kudos

@mastahfrederique1147

Жыл бұрын

They definitely are considered pretty huge celebrities within the company and Disney fandoms currently, especially when it comes to the parks!

@lovelo8780

Жыл бұрын

X. Atencio, Alice Davis, Marty Sklar, Leeota Toombes, Ron Dominguez, Harriet Burns

@austinreed7343

Жыл бұрын

@@lovelo8780 As much as people want to forget it now… James Baskett.

@nathanblevins158

5 ай бұрын

That true, Walt would have wanted us give the hard working people that gave us the Disney we all know in love.

Nobody is perfect, not even Walt Disney. The kind-hearted, optimistic films he made may not be a representation of what he was like in real life, but I do think its represents what he wanted to be

@ma.2089

Жыл бұрын

Well it’s not like his films were perfect either, that Native American thing in Peter Pan kinda destroys that movie for me. But I liked the crows in Dumbo. Even if they were meant to be stereotypes and puns on a terrible law, the characters were depicted as open minded, kind, sympathetic, and smart. They were against Dumbo and mocked him, but unlike most, came around and became some of his greatest supporters and friends.

I’m related to Bob Gurr and am so happy to hear that I’m not the only gay here. I would love to hear more about him outside of the stories I’ve heard about him from my family.

@BBWahoo

Жыл бұрын

You're gay, and thats gurrrrreat!!

Something you don't mention about _Bambi_ is that it was based on a book that was banned by the Nazi Party. He bought the movie rights a whole year after it was banned.

Even those who knew him give highly opposing accounts of him. It seems to me when he felt you were his friend he was intensely loyal and supportive, but if he ever felt you'd betrayed him he could turn on you pretty hard.

What always fascinated and endeared Walt to me was how though he was a product of his time, he was also ahead of his time too. Working with Nasa, and the military for example- he wanted to help pioneer the future. In Fantasia where his movie acknowledges Evolution as Canon which pissed off Christian American, Bambi, which pissed off the NRA. I also believe Walt was ahead of his time when it came to culture. How when Disneyland opened, he had Native American tribes come into his park and talk about their culture, not to mention his obvious love and fascination with Spanish speaking cultures. He was definitely not feminist or ally of the year, but, he still hired women, black folk, Hispanic folk, and when he died, I truly believe the company lost about 20 years worth of social progress. There's no sense of adventure, or entrepreneurialship, directors and artists don't even really travel to the places they base their movies on, they just "hire a consultant." The company was always conservative (in the sense of playing it safe, no necessarily politically), obviously, but, when he died, that's when Disney stopped being definitely "ahead of the curve", consistently. He's definitely a mixed bag, but, for what it's worth, I think his good outweighs the bad. If history was different, and, he changed the world in say 1998 instead of 1928, I wouldn't be surprised if Walt did for LGBT+ people what he did for Women and Black people back then. Would he be picture perfect ally, no, but, he wouldn't be a bad one either.

I’m glad a video like this exists. Every time I mention Walt to one of my friends who are Disney fans they either defend him to the death or frown and scoff at the mention of him. It’s always been difficult to navigate who exactly this guy is and it still is, but I think after watching this video and being presented with facts and rumors I’ve realized that it’s ok to be unsure because no matter how much you know, people are complicated, especially for a company figurehead from so long ago.

I totally think people should have an ultimatum for Walt Disney, he is a person and there is no good or evil completely.

i feel like this is most certainly a case of “separating the art from the artist.”

I was so excited to be able to see this so early -- thank you oh so dearly for talking about this! I've always been very fascinated and inspired by Disney even as a queer trans man. The entire discussion of him and his ideals is very very complicated, and I cannot applaud you enough for how you handled it. I don't think I have ever been more excited to see a video upload from you before haha! Keep up the wonderful work!

If this isn't about a rogue Walt animatronic that got loose in the parks and menaced the guests, I'm going to be very disappointed.

@jordandwiggins1026

Жыл бұрын

That sounds like a plot for a Kingdom Keepers book

starting this video with Rivers Cuomo KILLED me like I swear I can't escape him

I just want to say thank you for handling this subject with the seriousness it deserves; too many outlets and KZread channels try to use clickbait tactics and exaggerate the content for the purposes of justifying biases rather than to educate. This does set out to educate with the message that Walt Disney, THE MAN, was a complex human being both ahead of the times AND a product of the time. His actions, beliefs, and associations were indeed products of his time and it gives us a human and very gray image of Walt rather than the icon the company was created and the myth people created. I rather admire THE MAN who was very creative, visionary, and innovative, but also know he was a complicated human being with his biases that can't be excused.

TW/ Holocaust mention I will never forgive Family Guy for popularizing the canard that Walt was antisemitic. One of their jokes literally said he supported Auschwitz. Big citation needed

@Nightman221k

Жыл бұрын

after family guy’s jokes I legitimately tried to see if there was concrete proof of anything he did anti-semetic and turned up with the same results this video showed which amount to rumors said by a couple of people who sound jilted or something suggesting he may have had prejudice but not vitriolic animosity or acted with absurd “kill them” hatred.

@lovelo8780

Жыл бұрын

Disney cartoons were banned from the general public in Nazi Germany, Walt also produced anti Nazi films for free. He also went on a goodwill tour across South America on behalf of the U.S. Government to combat Nazi support in that region. I also heard that he fired his lawyer for making an antisemitic comment about the Sherman brothers, but I can't 100% confirm the story

@BBWahoo

Жыл бұрын

Family guy became shit after being revived, it only became worse after its second revival. Dogshit show, mean spirited without being humorous or sharp in wit.

Nothing can describe the whiplash I felt clicking on a video about Walt Disney and immediately hearing the words "Rivers Cuomo"

Very well done video. Money was Walt's ideology. I always remember Tommy Kirk's story (perhaps you could make a video about it) when discussing this things. "I consider my teenage years as being desperately unhappy" stated Kirk. "I knew I was gay, but I had no outlet for my feelings." “When I was about 17 or 18 years old, I finally admitted to myself that I wasn’t going to change. I didn’t know what the consequences would be, but I had the definite feeling that is was going to wreck my Disney career and maybe my whole acting career. Eventually, I became involved with somebody and I was fired.” "Even more than MGM, Disney was the most conservative studio in town... The studio executives were beginning to suspect my homosexuality. This town is full of right-wingers-the world is full of right-wingers-intolerant, cruel sons-of-bitches" Kirk said later. “I was caught having sex with a boy at a public pool in Burbank,” he said, as quoted in a Liz Smith column in 1992. “We were both young, and the boy’s mother went to Walt.” She found out about the relationship and made a complaint-not to the police, curiously, but to Disney. "In 1963, Disney let me go. But Walt asked me to return for the final Merlin Jones movie, The Monkey's Uncle, because the Jones films had been moneymakers for the studio." The Disney company later said: "Kirk started seeing a 15-year-old boy he had met at a local swimming pool. The boy's mother discovered the affair and informed Disney.", pointing the boy's age as the problem. However, for what I remember, the relationship lasted for a couple of years, and Kirk was around 19 when it started (not my ideal, what it was the 60s so...). My point: Disney only cared for the money, not his actors nor their beliefs/sexuality, even if he was homophobic and so, he would oversee it because of the money.

@BBWahoo

Жыл бұрын

Grooming culture is a fucking cancer.

@BBWahoo

Жыл бұрын

Wait nvm, I thought he was 60 and the boy was 15, for dyslexics he was *19* and the poolboy was 15.

We all have kindness and evil within us. Sometimes one side outweighs the other, depending on circumstances. Look at yourselves, your parents, your friends... Nobody is just good or bad, we're all multilayered.

Walt Disney is only depicted as wholesome uncle Walt because of the TV show. Walt was a well known perfectionist and always held specific people close which is why he was notoriously into favoritism like his 9 old men, Mary Blair and a few others. Anyone who didn't land in his good graces hated him and Walt hated them back because of the negative press and what he saw as them being ungrateful for the opportunity he gave them which he never had when he was a nobody. (Hence his hate for unions and why he made sure he had the credit for everything) It's understandable since he was a man who always had nothing growing up and was always self built until he would fail and then triumph again, he thought that unions were like the studio system that forcibly screwed him out of his 1st success. The only time he said anything really publicly anti Semitic, it was towards Carl Laemmle who was the Jewish head of Universal and the one who screwed him out of Oswald. The whole thing about Leni was because Walt liked German expressionism and yes Leni is absolutely complicit in the nazi's rise to power but the fact modern day sports filming still use alot of techniques leni did in Olympia and one thing Walt was, was a lover of any art is why he invited her over (and probably to strike a distribution deal like you said and schmooze her like he would others) At the time of her visit Americans didn't know the truth which is why there wasn't immediate response to these human rights atrocities. Walt was absolutely anti communist overtly pro American but still supported and wanted to work with artists like Salvador Dali who were indeed communist. It's a unique paradox that walt cared more for the art itself than anything political about it which is why he fought for james basket over segregation and always held high esteem for black artists, yet still faceplanted hard with things like song of the south and the blackface u see in some of the cartoons. Walt is indeed a by product of his time when cis heterosexual white males had such explicit power and we were always being fed these narratives of America being a land of opportunity and a meritocracy, but only if you weren't a person of color, non Christian, queer, female and so much more. They normalized slurs and hate speech like it was nothing, until you actually saw something terrible to actually make you empathize. Walt disney at the end of the day was a poor boy who wanted to be a creative and through much he became the face of one of the biggest media companies in existence. I never idolized Walt because to me he was a just a man flawed like the rest of us who was able to make something of himself because of the people he had around him. Walt would be nothing without Roy, his wife and kids, the 9 old men, the Sherman Brothers, Mary Blair, ub iwerks and many more. When talking about Walt you also have to reference where in his life he was, as young poor boy forced to do chores and a paper route, a young man who dropped out of high school to pursue a career in art which at the turn of the century was daunting, the middle aged perfectionist who chased after magnum opuses to his later years as a defeated man who had to learn to let go of control to his final years as the uncle Walt many people know. Funny how people really want to belive he's evil because of how cynical society truly is and to hate or cast doubt on anything positive. Funny how I rarely see videos exposing the other studios like mgm, Warner bros, and Universal for their racist, sexist, abusive practices. It's still disturbing to me Bosco is the 1st looney tune and he's a caricature of a black boy and the amount of racist things bugs bunny has done. I wish celebrity culture would stop and we could stop dwelling on so much and take people for what they are which is human (unless they do obviously horrible things like kill etc) I will always be a fan of Disney because it's not just Walt and Mickey, it's literally the menagerie of creatives who have strived to give us some of the best entertainment that has lasted so long. Just like everything in history, it has at some point touched unclean hands. Like how you can love America but still acknowledge this country was built on colonialism and genocide of indigenous people

@lovelo8780

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! Your comment doesn't have enough likes, but could you add paragraphs so it'll be easier to read?

This is such a good video, Marlene. Lately I've been trying to hold all the complexities of a person or place at once and I think it's a healthier way to think about things but also more challenging.

thank you for this nuanced and informative video!! I remember being quite confused about Disney's often conflicting views surrounding WWII and your literature recommendations back then helped me SO much. happy to see that you made an entire video dedicated to this topic bc it is very interesting!

@lovelo8780

Жыл бұрын

Two criticisms I have about this video is that she referenced Marc Elliot's 'Hollywood's Dark Prince' which isnt the most factual book, it contains the myth that Walt was frozen alive and many other claims. The other is the inclusion of BBC's Secret Lives, which has been contradicted by other Disney employees but I understood why she included it to show the contradicting accounts

@DreamsoundsVideo

Жыл бұрын

I was worried that people would criticize me using that book, but I wasn’t referencing Eliot’s thoughts, I was referencing the interview he conducted for the book. Other Disney historians (like Neal Gabler) have verified the interviews from Eliot and have referenced it, so I see no issue with doing so. A sloppy book can still be helpful if there were real interviews with people who worked with Disney. The Babbitt quote about the Fantasia meeting existed in 3 other interviews I found, but the most extensive description of it was in the Eliot book. Same with the BBC doc, other employees disagree, but that doesn’t change what other employees said. As you mention, my intention was to show the push/pull that often occurs when looking at sources who worked with Walt.

@lovelo8780

Жыл бұрын

@@DreamsoundsVideo No worries, I think you tried to present different accounts with the amount of time you had and did well. I thought it was almost funny how each story conflicted with the previous, perhaps we'll never know the true Walt Disney. His Brother Roy once said if you gathered 40 people and asked them about Walt you'd get 40 different Walts

As always I really appreciate your nuanced take here. 100% I don't think Walt is a person to idolize or put on a pedestal, but I also don't think we should do that to anyone, but much less Walt as he was not a great inspiring person as the company likes to paint him as

@lovelo8780

Жыл бұрын

Walt was quite a complicated and a fascinating character in history. I still think his contributions and story is inspiring even if it's different from the mythicized story.

As someone who was hoping to make a video like this myself, I appreciate you clarifying speculation and leaving it up to the audience to decide. Though I would argue that the version of him that "didn't exist" was real to an extent in being a version of himself that hoped he could be, despite eventually feeling trapped by it.

I think this video is an important example of looking at primary sources and multiple sources in general. It's important to remember not to label people as "good" or "bad." Most people believe they are doing the right thing, and the alternative is self-awareness which is also good.

Fantastic video. Love the nuanced approach toward Disney and the less savory things that he did. That said, I can't entirely agree that Walt was a man stuck in his ways. One of the key virtues he posessed was his ability to look forward and adapt. It's what allowed him to create Mickey, realize he needed to talk, then transition to Feature Films and then transition to Theme Parks. He had the ability to change. This is reflected in his attitudes as well. He was very much a product of the early 20th Century Midwest with all of its virtues and prejudices. Many of which you discussed. What's important to notice isn't if a historical person possesses those prejudices, but whether they change them overtime as they gain experience. Walt, in a lot of ways showed that capacity. At one time he didn't allow women to be animators or spoke in prejudiced language toward Jewish people or allowed prejudiced images to be in his cartoons. But later in his life he not only had women animators but also imagineers, he openly donated to Jewish charities and had Jewish friends and his later work doesn't feature the same sort of negative stereotypes toward minorities as they once did. This was a man that lamented he could never make a movie as good as "To kill a Mockingbird". This isn't to say he never held onto prejudices or bad ideas. He certainly did, but the longer he lived the more he did start evolving his views. And that to me is how we can judge him, by understanding the time he lived in, but also how he changed, sometimes slowly, with it.

Amazing video! This basically sums up how I feel about Walt Disney. While I consider him to be one of my personal heroes due to the great things he accomplished, I also recognize he did a lot of terrible things as well. But I think that's part of what makes us human beings. We're capable of great and terrible things. That's why we always need to do what we can to improve and do better.

no one is always good or bad. We're all complicated and messy. Before I realized I was gay myself, I was extremely homophobic. I just thought I was right. I think people mostly want to do good but sometimes we end up doing bad things, intentionally or otherwise. We may even hurt ourselves without realizing it. Part of the human experience is if we do something bad, we recognize it over time and learn to do better in the future. Learning from experience.

@eko9554

Жыл бұрын

Same here! I was homophobic and I thought it was okay to have that mindset. Thankfully I changed and became more open minded. While there are flaws within the LGBT community, I will always believe that being gay, lesbian, straight, bi, etc is okay.

Loved this video. A wonderful analysis of the man that goes beyond the mythical figure he's upheld as without villifying him unnecessarily or defending him.

I really appreciate your mindset of people being complicated doing good and bad things.

Heya Animation Nerd here In the Walt Disney biography "Walt Disney an American Original" by Bob Thomas Walt had an employee who was caught and arrested for being homosexual in the 1930s, Walt kept him employed stating that "Everybody makes mistakes sometimes" although the rhetoric isn't perfect it is cool he didn't fire him. So is Walt homophobic maybe it's hard to look into this quote especially with the context at the time it appears to be both progressive and not at the same time, interesting tho

@DreamsoundsVideo

Жыл бұрын

I don't think that goes against the discussion I have in this video, to be honest. Like I mentioned with the Bob Gurr example, it's perfectly possible that Walt worked with gay people and was even supportive of them while holding casual prejudices of the time, as mentioned in the Art Babbitt quote and also the "Give him a chance; we all make mistakes.” quote that you reference. I didn't include that quote because the vagueness of Walt even saying a mistake without saying what he considered the mistake makes it more difficult to label it specifically as addressing queerness. Being arrested on a homosexual charge back then could have been some sort of public activity and since Walt was notoriously conservative, the mistake part could have been referring to a number of things about the situation.

@addiesanimation5931

Жыл бұрын

@@DreamsoundsVideo I totally understand and I'm sorry if it came across as something against your discussion in your video, I just wanted to highlight another example that might have interested you Anyways great job with the video It is really good!

I do so love a nuanced take!

I’m watching this now and I do agree, there’s no need to make stuff up about Walt. He was not a nice person in my opinion but he also wasn’t an evil overlord or child predator (I’ve heard that bs way before Q anon people turned on Disney as a company).

@CerealGrrrl

Жыл бұрын

Yeah the child predator thing is spread by Q-anon types, alleging that he abused Bobby Driscoll. Walt had many flaws, but I see no evidence that he was a pedophile.

I never like people making Walt Disney or Mickey Mouse portray as evil or greedy people. I portray them as people. With feelings, he is the reason why I want to be like him. I’m tired of people saying Disney copied other ideas. But not everything is a rip off. Walt Disney human, I’m tired people making him and his creation into bad people or antagonists the hole companion

Splendid job on the video! : D

The comments...I've never heard of a GRANDDAUGHTER of WD "not liking him/disowning the family name", but I HAVE heard of a GRANDNIECE/GREATNIECE, ABIGAIL DISNEY, who "doesn't like him/disowns the family name".

@lovelo8780

Жыл бұрын

Exactly! She was raised in a toxic household by allegedly violent and alcoholic parents Roy Jr. and Patricia Disney, Walt probably had nothing to do with it since he died when she was only six years old

Such a wonderful and informative video, thank you!

I love that this video started with talking about Rivers Cuomo, not was I expecting, but ain't complaining. Great work!

Thank you for this nuanced video 👏

Also, as problematic as Song of the South is, by most accounts it was largely through Disney's efforts that James Baskett became the first African-American male performer to win an Oscar, when I think the Academy would have preferred to avoid honoring people of color altogether that year. Of course you could say Disney was pulling strings to make his movie more successful, but that's the thing about him - you can't always tell where Walt the businessman and Walt the person connect. It's a chicken-or-the-egg question.

your conclusion is pretty much how I feel about it too. I think he was basically a reflection of white American culture in his era, including things like casual racism and homophobia. Also during his career in the public eye, he went through pretty significant cultural progress from the 20's to the mid 60's so his thoughts probably changed over time. Though in the end that's still 60 years behind today's culture (which still carries the same issues, just in different ways). Anyway the thing that I admire Walt for, was that massive advancement in animation over the course of the 30's. His willingness to spend money on quality and training. Although obviously it was the artists who actually *did* it lol

Wonderful video. But just one correction: Walt absolutely had nothing to do with that Mickey Mouse comic. I’m not sure who wrote it, but it was definitely drawn by Floyd Gottfredson, with Walt’s signature as a “brand mark.”

@cassandramiller4477

Жыл бұрын

Whoops! Just read your comment! Sorry!

Bobby gurr will always be loved for his genius designing the monorail, moving system for doom buggies, and his awesome cars on Main Street and autopia - not his preferences in the bedroom -

The dude was born in the midwest in the early 1900’s I don’t know what ideas people expected him to have

To me, almost all of Walt's faults can be properly summed up by him being a capitalist. He wanted the most profitable and reputable company he could possibly make it. I don't think he out right hated any group of people, he was just extremely apathetic to them. His real concern was 'would they improve his company and make him money?' Even his meeting with Riefenstahl reflects this. He didn't care what she did or believed in. He just thought that her film making talent would be an asset. And ultimately he turned her away not because of any moral reason but because he had to concede that working with her would be more of a liability than anything. It's not far off from how Disney as a company functions today.

I think there are parallels to be drawn between Walt Disney and Stan Lee. The contexts are a little different, since Walt Disney founded Disney and Stan Lee was not a founder of Marvel, but both are now synonymous with those respective companies. Both Walt Disney and Stan Lee were keenly attuned to branding and made themselves a big part of the brand, and that involved appearing to create things that others did, but that they oversaw. Both actively mythologized themselves and that mythological version is what people think of, rather than the actual people they were. I've seen people complain about the quality of the Marvel Cinematic Universe movies declining since Stan Lee's death, when he never had significant involvement in any of the films at all, but people think that because of the cameos and because of how successful Stan Lee was in making himself the face of the comapny. Stan Lee is a complicated person too - there are multiple allegations of misconduct levelled against him, and it is true that he was often manipulative in taking disproportionate credit for various characters and plots, but he was also exploited towards the end of his life, with there being a bitter feud between his daughter and his manager over the money brought in by his convention appearances. Walt Disney is the first singular person most people think of when they think of Disney, and Stan Lee is the first singular person most people think of when they think of Marvel.

Part of me wonders if Walt rejected female animators outright because he knew he'd created a boy's club and didn't want to deal with upsetting his "studio family" by putting sex in the mix. I can hear the defense of "locker room talk" now, especially in a time that had no workplace harassment protections. -It doesn't make it okay, but if you look at how misogynistic Pixar under Lassiter was not all that long ago, it wouldn't surprise me if there was a motive outside of plain prejudice.

@lovelo8780

Жыл бұрын

Some employees still dated each other when the sexes were seperate. Defunctland has a video about it called 'The craziest party Walt Disney ever through'

not currently able to watch with sound, but this video opening with an underrated Rivers Cuomo song (and one of my personal favourites of his solo stuff) really surprised me lmao.

this is an excellent video and does a great job of talking about walt as a person but the whiplash i got clicking onto this and hearing “rivers cuomo felt depressed” took me out

I don’t mean to sound like I’m not engaging with the conversation at large, but I simply must digress for a moment. You have such a soft and pretty voice. It’s like rain on a tin roof. So peaceful and relaxing as you discuss complex and sometimes ugly things. It really sounds like you’re finding your stride! I can sense the confidence more than in previous videos. Do you still sing? I hope so. Your voice was always pretty, I’d love to see what you can do now.

It goes without saying that people are complicated just like history and the views and standards of each era Time may not be an excuse for what anyone does but there were so many common practices and beliefs throughout the past that you can’t fault someone for falling into them…yes most were clearly wrong like slavery but for those people it was how the world was The family museum out in CA is a great place to visit with artifacts art and actual accounts from people that show all sides Walt was not perfect but I am still a fan

@WitchKing-Of-Angmar

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, however you would be surprised how open the past was, just because modern day has put millions of overcoats over to hide what it truly was.

‼️👏 GREAT VIDEO 👏‼️

omg new vid :D

I think my favorite Walt Disney story is about the cats in Sleeping Beauty castle. Walt wanted to put a walk through attraction in it, and there was this narrow attic space that was on the blue prints that he and a couple of guys went to check out. They got up there and found some cats. A lot of them. Roughly 100 cats. They were immediately mobbed by fleas and left the room with great haste. Walt said "don't worry, I know what to do", called someone to come pick up up, looked at the two employees that were also covered in fleas and said "hey, don't go through the crowd, okay?" And rode off alone without them. So they get a Disneyland flea bath, and they start talking about the attraction. People were like "you gotta get rid of those cats, Walt." He said "I hear ya loud and clear, fellas." They meant he should hire an exterminator. He hired some animal groomers, cleaned up the cats, and personally saw that they all got adopted. I really think this displays his drive and focus, to the point of alienating other people. It also displays his compassion in a time where most people would just have those cats put down. He, like many people, was a man of mixed character.

A perfectly ballanced view at the mystery that was this man. That's the thing about many meaningful people: their personality was a palette of differnt shades and you can't easily sort them in in good or bad. I'mean, that's the thing with pretty much everybody. But the bigger the person, the bigger their actions. And it is not true, that everybody was a product of their time. I found an decades old exceptional comic strips about a grumpy guy defending very modern morals. That shows no matter when you was born, no matter what your enironment was, you could always make a judement of your own.

One of the stories I heard was the Animation Strike of the 40s. He was at his lowest and evilest in that time since he tried his best to ensure that his animators, the nine old men, out of a union

I’m quite possibly one of the biggest Railroad fans ever, I’m also extremely heavily into Disney parks trains. I have a model of the locomotive and cars Walt Disney ran in his backyard in HO scale, specifically the Carolwood Pacific Railroad. I’m also planning to make all disney parks trains in model form, as well as run them on a club train layout that also loves Disney railroads, although the club is mainly focused on general railroad history throughout their models. I’m saying all this to say thank GOD I found this video. Romanticizing, idolizing, patronizing, etc. is quite possibly the worst thing anyone can do, and in Walt Disney’s case it can really be damaging. Whilst I still love Disney for mainly my railroad interests, I really took the time to consider who I was really supporting. Whilst I won’t sell that Limited edition train set and cancel all locomotives I plan to ‘kitbash’ (build yourself) I want to be able to be much more critical of Walt Disney.

At 24:11 there is a photo of him with a tie on. That tie has been added to the photo, you can 100% tell. A lot of walt photos have been edited like this.

Honestly it's best to view walt as a morally gray person that held common bigoted views from his time. That said it's totally valid to critizes his works for bigotry and his actions instead of pretending none of it happened

I wonder if this is why we debate about separating the art from the artist.

Walt was a human being, a complex human, like every single person on this planet. Yes, he created a persona, but doesn't everybody? KZreadrs? Celebrities? We are complex beings that are capable of doing bad and good things. It doesn't excuse the bad things he did but you can be inspired by anyone. I do admire his creative endeavors, he opened a lot of doors. So yeah, it's difficult, but I do believe people should start seeing the grey areas and stop thinking in absolutes. A guy that is already dead can't speak for his actions anymore, so yeah, that is that. Good video.

Dunno why, but I have the feel that a lot of the hate for Walt Disney stems from people's frustrations with the company's direction in the present day. Disney is supposed to enshrine the values of Walt Disney, the person, therefore, therefore, instead of blaming the chairmans in charge who took those executive decisions on the first place (long after Walt's death), they blame Walt Disney for "setting up the pillars". I'm loosely speaking here because though Walt took poor executive decisions back in the day, we can't blame him for the direction the company's been taking since his death in 1966. He may have built the company, that's true - but the Walt Disney Studios we know in the present has gone through SIGNIFICANT change to shape itself into what it is now. That's not Walt Disney's fault to blame. I'm saying this is because I have to recognize that my own negative shift of the opinion I had of Walt Disney stems from my own gripes with the company in the present - but now I wonder if I'm not the only one who thinks like this? Or if this theory is too farfetched? 😅

@weeaboobaby

Жыл бұрын

This was an AMAZING video by the way! 💖 As someone who is both tired of the "Walt Disney was evil" rhethoric, but at the same time doesn't really understand why this person is SO glorified and idealized, this was a very much-needed watch.

I think somewhere down the line, collectively people decided that Walt was America's Uncle or something, and somewhere down the line our celebrity culture took over. As in, we love you until we hate you and then you become a punching bag or point and laugh recipient. Everything about him just screams bog standard ruthless businessman. Taking credit, refusing to pay workers or treat them well, that's like a Tuesday for us these days. Animators or anyone trying to get into the animation field love to tell the stories of how screwed up Walt was, and I have to admit, there is a little fun in there. Anecdotes that may or may not have happened. I think the main thing is there's a lot of schadenfreude in mocking the guy. Personally I see him as a businessman with a cartoon background and not much more or less. HOWEVER, you look me in the eye and tell me the completely false and highly unbelievable Frozen Walt's head thing isn't funny. My personal favorites were the Familyland episode of American Dad and this episode of Space Goofs I can't remember the name of, but featured a theme park tycoon that constantly had to run into a freezer. I'm kind of surprised that the "Disney Vault" skit from Saturday TV Funhouse didn't get a mention here.

It's all about protecting the image.

I would love to see you make a video on Escape From Tommorow. It's an incredibly awful film that I'd love to see your analysis on as a Disney fan.

As a Jewish, gay man who has dedicated his life to studying film history, especially Disney and animation, I maintain that there is no such thing as "queer coding", and that it is all perception. It should also be noted that anything taken from Hollywood's Dark Prince book by Marc Eliot should immediately be dismissed as he has been known to make things up. Disney himself also did not draw the comics or have anything to do with printed media . Walt had not drawn since before Mickey's conception. Back then, if you were outsourcing, all you would need is one signature and from then on, they could do whatever they wanted and put it under that name. Joan was likely referring to Ben Sharpsteen, who was the antisemitic "right hand man" of Walt. It may be safe to assume that Ben was asking for himself and claiming to ask for Walt, but that's only my suspicion. What's important to note that founding members Alliance were also Jewish. If even Art Babbitt said that he never experienced any antisemitism, that's saying something. While it's easy to compare notes of employees, his personal life paints a better picture, according to his daughters. An antisemite wouldn't allow his daughter to date a Jewish man and encourage them to marry, nor would an antisemite personally ask a Rabbi to attend the dedication ceremony of Disneyland. All lf which, Disney did. As evidenced by his rather immature response to the animators strike and the red scare, Walt was always politically naive. The letter Mary Ford received was NOT from Walt himself. Instead, it was a standard letter penned by Mary Cleane. Aside from Ink and Paint, women had been employed in multiple "unorthodox" positions around the studio, such as even full blown sequence directors and lyricists. As a fan and historian myself, I can acknowledge that Walt was neither sinner nor saint, but rather human, flawed like all of us, who did as much good as he did bad things. I initially thought I was going to hate this video, but I can actually respect the amount of work you put into this and even providing sources, so as much as I hate your clickbait tactics, I commend you on your work.

Anyone else get multiple disney adverts at the beginning of this video?

Lillo And Stitch is Disney's Digimon, Pokemon, Monster Ranchers and Yu Gi Oh rip off and Yo Kai Watch prototype 🔥🦖🔥🐸🦎🌪🌫🦇🐹🐰🌩⚡🐭🥊🥊🐰⚡❄🐺🐯🍑🐧👁👅🐗🎱🔥🪔🐱 They have their own versions of agumon, patamon, charmander, pikachu, hare, tiger, mochi, suezo, kuriboh and jibanyan

You had me at Rivers Cuomo

***(THE UPCOMING and POSSIBLE!!!)*** Ramayana is Disney's Jujutsu Kaisen rip off 🦊🐆🦋🐛🐝🐞🪲🦚🐅🐘🐍🌸🍊🍋 🥭 Rama = Yuji Sita = Nobara Bharata = Megumi Angada = Satoru Kushadwaja = Toge Janaka = Kinji Lakshmana = Yuuta Dhanyamalini = Maki Pulastya = Kyotaka Dasharatha = Takuma Prahasta = Masamichi Rishyasringa = Yoshinobu Sampati = Atsuya Tara = Kirara Ravana = Sukuna ***possible identity as this is unidentified Disney Animated Canon movie and is scheduled for 2024***

Peter Pan is Disney's One Piece prototype 🐒🐊🐯🐍🐻❄🦜🦚🦩🐠🐬🦈🐙🦑🦞🦥🦘🐪🐘🦛🦏🌊🌸🌺🥭🍍🥥🍌🍊🍋🍉🍈 Peter Pan = Monkey D. Luffy Wendy Darling = Nico Robin John Darling = Usopp Michael Darling = Tony Tony Chopper Tiger Lilly = Nefertari Tinkerbell = Nami Lost Kids = Ronoroa Zorro, Brook, Sanji, Frankie, Jinbei... Captain Hook = Rob Lucci Smee = Kumadori

i mean yeah, all in all, he was human. every human lives in a grey area, especially figures with influence. not to mention the factors of him living in a time when bigotry of every kind was much more normalized and accepted and "just how it is" and such as compared to the modern day when everyone openly fights back against all that to try and make a better world for everyone. the bigotry was always bad but its at least more understandable that someone who wasnt a minority wouldve been part of the people who felt that way in a time when that was the way people tended to be. also i looked up the big bad wolf thing, and as someone whos jewish... yikes that was *definitely* antisemitic, no doubt about it. you dont need to be jewish to see that but i dont need someone coming at me like 'oh dont speak for the jewish people if youre not jewish!' when i literally am lol

perfectly fair, balanced without being too logically cold. ego left out of it. could trust that in a judge, only a handful of people. shame deciding stays stuck in thought as most/rules efficiently run black n white.

Beauty And The Beast is Disney's Inuyasha prototype 🦊🐱🐰🐉🐞🪲🕷🦋🐺🐶🌸🍋 Belle = Kagome Adam = Kouga Lumiére = Inuyasha Cogsworth = Miroku Mrs. Potts = Kaede Chip Potts = Shippo Featherduster = Kikyo Wardrobe = Sango Gaston = Naraku Le Fou = Goshinki Monsieur D'arque = Moryomaru

@PaulKapow

Жыл бұрын

What is this comment???

serious question about the "smear campaign" quote. can we trust anything she says?

Tarzan is Disney's Attack On Titan prototype 🐻🦁🐯🐺🐗🦍🦧🐻‍❄🌸🍏 Tarzan = Eren Jane = Mikasa Tantor = Armin Kala = Lara Terk = Krista Archimedes Q = Zeke Kerchak = Reiner Flynt = Levi Mungo = Jeane Moyo = Connie Jabari = Erwin Zugor = Falco Queen La = Annie Sabor = Ymir Clayton = Bertholdt Tublat = Rod

Pocahontas is Disney's Radiant prototype 🐱🐈‍⬛🪲🐞🐛🦋🪱🕷🐹🐿✨🌸🍎🍏🍊 Pocahontas = Melie John Rolfe = Seth John Smith = Piodon Nakoma = Hameline Thomas = Doc Kokoum = Triton Meeko = Tommy Percy = Boss Redfeather = Lord Brangoire Flit = Grimm Grandmother Willow = Alma Kekata = Sagramore Utamatomakkin = Myrddin Governore Ratcliffe = Torque Wiggins = Santori

Hunchback Of Notre Dam is Disney's My Hero Academia prototype 🐰🦄🐸🐱🐭🦑🐙🦨🐠🌸🍌 Quasimodo = Deku Esmeralda = Uraraka Phoebus = Todoroki Clopin = Nezu Laverne = Tsuyu Hugo = Rikido Victor = All Might Archdeacon = Bakugo Madellaine = Mina Zephyr = Aoyama Djali = Denki Claude Frollo = Tenko

Sensational insights, and thank you. I'm one of the artists who created THE LITTLE MERMAID, THE PRINCE AND THE PAUPER, BEAUTY AND THE BEAST &ALADDIN, as well as designing Cruella DeVil's costumes for the TV series and a lot of other Disney assignments you might be familiar with. It's been a marvelous journey to see how Gays are accepted. Even while working at Filmation, before my Disney assignments, I stayed in the closet. Workers could easily be bullied or possibly fired by the majority, unless they had a supportive group around them. At Disney Feature Animation there were gay folks who were out and not bothered by fears of prejudice. My gay life has ben a grand journey and I've witnessed more acceptance than I could ever have dreamed of in my youth. I don't think there's any concern at all about such things in the animation industry today. A lot of the world has evolved toward acceptance, creating much more peaceful minds along the way. Walt came form the past and surely he also changed along the way. "Tune as old as song Bittersweet and strange Finding you can change Learning you were wrong" My, darling people, were also severe Mormons. Seemingly unable to change, yet they loved me, loved me, loved me. It was a result of their time period and constant conditioning. I'm sure Walt had his quirks. Above all else, his drive wold have had to be focused on delivering a great product, however this was accomplished. Even still, I think anything that might get in the way of the studio delivering a great product is understandably considered unacceptable.

I'd like to add that Walt was famously extremely politically naïve and most of the time went with things other folks suggested, hence his hatred of the communists in the wake of the animator's strike via the assistance of Gunther Lessing. However, I should also add that a lot of the rumors about anti-semitism spawn from a book called Walt Disney: Hollywood's Dark Prince, a piece of yellow journalism that said, without any proof, that Walt was actually born in Spain and the beginning of the rumor of his antisemitism, among other things. The book has been thoroughly descimated by animation historians, Diane Disney Miller and everyone who knew Walt in general. Now, it's not me defending the man himself. I realize that he is just a dude from an era that isn't as aware of things as we are now and we have to be aware that people aren't 100% perfect and that Walt could genuinely be both things.

Its so disingenuous to go back in time and look at things that offends today’s pallets. It was a different time and if YOU were living then and there you would be doing the same thing despite handwringing today and moralizing about a society that lived fifty years ago. Walt was demanding, but he was a good person. You know how I know that? Because The majority of people who worked for him idolize him to the point of worship, that includes black and jewish employees.

***(THE UPCOMING and POSSIBLE!!!)*** Aida is Disney's Ranma 1/2 rip off 🐷🐱🐛🦋🐌🐜🐝🐞🦆🐙🐼🕌🌸🍑🍓 Aida = Ukyo Ramades = Ranma Amneris = Akane Tutankhamun = Ryoga Mereb = Tatewaki Pharaoh = Genma Nebekha = Tofu Amonasro = Happosai Amen Hotep = Hikaru Bastet = Kasumi Serkhet = Nabiki Ra = Konatsu Seth = Mousse Zoser = Pantyhose Taro ***possible identity as this is unidentified Disney Animated Canon movie and is scheduled for 2024***

I feel like looking at things of the past is always hard, because so many things, like homophobia and racism, were normalized then, and gender and social roles were much more strict then. That doesn't excuse it of course, but I think that background is important background. Like in some conservative circles, having people do the bare minimum of respect is big, like I remember growing up in a Christian environment that was mostly side-X, but it was so good to see side-B become more mainstream over time, even though many even then pushed for side-A (fully affirming). I don't excuse anything, but usually try and look at others at the time, and see, were they doing better, or worse than the norms at the time? Same with now, if something is worse than the norm in any regard, that's usually pretty bad, but even if someone or a company is doing slightly better than average (like paying living wages to employees, but still not giving things like healthcare or vacation times), it's still better. It's nice when companies and people go out of their way for the greater good, to be nice, and lift up others, that's what I was taught, but sometimes small improvements are all we can get.

I disdain the "product of its time" stock explanation, but not because I see it as an excuse. I hate it because I see it as unfair and insulting. Such a thesis implies that human beings possess no individuality, and will mindlessly mimic everything they see in the society around them. That is true of almost no one, regardless of time period - and it is especially untrue of artists and creators, whose mission in life is to exercise their imaginations, and thus think outside the (sociocultural) box. Another problem with the "product of its time" cliché is that it drives one to ask, "Which time, exactly?" Walt Disney was alive for well over six decades, and during that time both Western society and Western culture changed dramatically - and, since he was in Hollywood and was exposed to all kinds of popular media, Walt was doubtlessly aware of all of it. So, which era was he "living" in? There's no single answer to that question, because the Disney entertainments themselves have charted sociocultural change. Any trip to Disneyland will confirm this, for the park is divided into separate "worlds" that could never coexist in real life. You could argue that "Main Street U.S.A.," which is a tribute to the "Gay Nineties" image of small-town America, reflects the "true" Disney. But Frontierland obviously harkens back to an even earlier era, and New Orleans Square all the way back to the 17th and 18th centuries. Walt was also fascinated, along with many other Americans during the 1950s and '60s, with futuristic technology and space travel, and originally designed his Tomorrowland as a prediction of what the world would look like in the 1980s (which is, of course, why Tomorrowland has gone through a number of makeovers since the actual '80s).

❤️

@BBWahoo

Жыл бұрын

I'm lovin' it

***(THE UPCOMING)*** Wish is Disney's Seven Deadly Sins rip off 🐷🐍🦁🐲🦊🐻🐐🐗🌸🍏 Asha = Elizabeth Otto = Meliodas Mary = Diane Valentino = Hawk Buck = Escanor Colleen = Gowther Geoffrey = King Samuel = Ban Star = Merlin Selvio = Wild Bessy = Hawk Mamma Jolly = Matrona Gale = Dolores Ifrit = Demon King Nightmarelanders = Ten Commandments ***this is Disney Animated Canon movie scheduled for 2023***

Frozen is Disney's Black Clover prototype 🐂🦩🐝🦭🐱🕊🐌🦌🐰🌸🔴🧶🧵❤❄🥑 Anna = Noelle Elsa = Vanessa Kristoff = Asta Hans = Yuno Olaf = Liebe Kai = Julius Gerda = Charmy Destin = Luck Lady Halverson = Gray Oaken = Gordon Duke Of Weselton = Zora Sven = Gifso Erik = Gauche Francis = Magna Marshmallow = Patry

I think Disney gets the most flack for stereotypes nowadays because they're the biggest name, but if you look at other "race"-themed cartoons from the 40s, they're honestly much worse. Check out Warner Bros. 'Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs' or Walter Lantz's 'Scrub Me Mama With a Boogie Beat' and see how outrageously offensive they are. In fact, taking all things into account, the Disney cartoons might actually be the LEAST racist cartoons from that era.

@ecoRfan

Жыл бұрын

The latter of the two was probably the most blatantly racist cartoon ever

My dislike of Walt is most immediately because of what he did to Tommy Kirk when he was outed. But there's the union busting and the plagiarism too.

@lovelo8780

Жыл бұрын

Wasn't Tommy Kirk fired because his mother told after he got caught with a 15 year old boy?

@BBWahoo

Жыл бұрын

@@lovelo8780 Hot

i can deal with some sensitive subjects, giggity.