Blessed is he with a rudimentary understanding of the practical applications of physics. (Seriously man, thank you so much for these videos, You give man a fish and teach him to fish all at once)

The talk about the shoulder and the differential wood thickness made me think of tillering a bow. Mind you, I've never made a bow, but the entire tillering process is devoted to getting the wood to flex where you want it to flex and not where you don't. There seems to be a lot of the same principles at work here.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Exactly, I used that analogy either in this video or another recent one, but edited it out in either case. That discussion is coming though. It is the perfect analogy, because it's easy to understand. It's rare I think that people look at this system that way, but it's very similar distribution of stress issue. My analogy was to take a stave and make a bow limb out of only 6 inches of it, then try to bend it. It's obvious what happens v.s. a fully finished bow. with the same stress applied.

@BeSatori

6 жыл бұрын

Exactly! Great point. Will probably be lost on 99% of people, but perfectly illustrates the point.

axe cult he he .. funny i got these big doubles from link , they are wick handles , but the spoke shave has been workin' hard specially under the head where you speak of ,, mr. Skill Cult,, ride life like it was yer very first pedal bike ,...... love......

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Here is a man that understands the transition thing! The buckin special I have from you has killer smooth transitions!

Very good breakdown of common reasons for failure. Thank you. A less common but interesting one is too much compression of the wood within the eye. One of my first few handles broke right under the head even though I was very careful with my transitions and proportions. I used glue for the wedge which lubricated the joint and then I used a pipe clamp to drive it in. Then I added a small steel wedge going the other way. The combination of these factors basically crushed the wood (white oak in this case) and it failed after very little use.

Not to forget that when the handle is wider than the head itself on the sides makes the wood more likely to get chewed up while penetrating the wood you are cutting. If it is thinner than the head then the head itself protects it quite nicely. Thanks for another very informative video! Be safe out there Steven! Miha

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Yes, at least as narrow as the head and preferably narrower! All too commonly it is actually wider than the head.

Any large change in stiffness either due to a material or sectional change is a location for stress concentration. Biggest factor about handles with a thickness change is that the moment of inertia has a cubic function with respect to thickness so a small change can drastically change its stiffness.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Did not know that. Still not sure I understand it, but I'll stick it in my head and let it rattle around. Thanks for commenting.

@keithcurrams

3 жыл бұрын

@@SkillCult I THINK it would work out as, ok ..hang on now.... Say the dimension of a given 1cm length of the handle was 2cm x 3cm, so 2x3x1 = 6cm cubed and further say the next 1cm section was a bit fatter, say 3cm x 3cm, so 3x3x1 = 9cm cubed. For that extra 1 cm of dimensional thickness, it's an increase of 50% in the cubic area... sooo I guess this is where the cubic function of inertia plays? That that small difference can cause a significant change in volume which would allow for inertia differential and thus breakage. Maybe. Maybe I'm talking out my ass. I might be somewhat right though!

Thanks for sharing and creating a conversation on this subject. I'm always learning, and trying to pay it forward. Keep up the good work! Peace, Rooster

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your efforts to interest people in axes and their use :)

Thanks for the video! I love your outdoor classroom layout and backdrop by the way.

Right on time, man. I've working on an article on my blog talking about this very thing. I'll include your video as well. Many thanks!

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Awesome. Thanks. Look forward to reading that.

My S&N was like that, Penobscot model. Was great for tinkering with and tuning it to what I liked. Very good axe and was a great gift I'm thankful for! Thanks for the knowledge and share!

Good video, good theories. In machining metal any sharp corner (little to no radius at the thickness change) is called a "stress riser" or "stress concentrator". The more gradual the change in thickness the greater the area any stress will be dissipated across; thus the more likely to flex than break. As an example, wedges are not prone to breakage due to a gradual continual change in width throughout the length of the wedge. Being one piece of the same material doesn't hurt either.

@SkillCult

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I just knew that from experience/logic/extrapolation and whatever else, but in the next version of this video, I did mention that term as a couple of other people pointed that out as well. It's good to have confirmation from that world.

All great info! I've had a number of axes break there and now I may know why!

Thanks for the amazing and informative videos Steven.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

You are welcome Babak

Great info, Thanks Steven!

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

:)

Great video again. I don't see where anybody else said it, but the name I have always known for the file/rasp is a Four-in-Hand. A great tool.

@SkillCult

5 жыл бұрын

That is a trademark name from Nicholson file company. All my teachers called it a shoemakers rasp, which is what you find them as in 19th century. They are still often called that.

Glad I found your channel. I took a knife and sandpaper to my jersey axe. The handle was way too blocky. After watching your vids I decided to mod it. Glad I did. Feels much better and has way more value to me now! Thanks!

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Awesome. I love to hear that.

Sick video! Super helpful :)

I confess to being one of those that is a bit of a gear head where the gear is the end. I also am not a pure pragmatist when it comes to tools... aesthetics become important to me when the tools job is part of a process meant to be savored. That said... You sir are a wealth of incredible information and I very much enjoy your videos. I know what I am and what I will always be... but enjoy learning and tapping the depths of the specialty knowledge you and dudes like you possess. Keep up the awesome work!!

one of your best videos and a beautiful background.

You're definitely an axeman. I use one or two out of my collection(one being the council boys axe the other an old trusty craftsman) but I know how to hang an axe quite well, and came this same understanding through one of my first handles breaking and your channel. Understanding your tool and how it works is imperative. Love your channel man, hopefully someday I'll have the land to take on your cordwood challenge.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks, good luck making land happen. There are lot of woods out there in need of management (most of them) just a matter of convincing the owners of that.

Thus endeth the lesson ..... great info ..... thanks for taking the time to share ....

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

That was concieved and shot in one morning. If that background wasn't so awesome, I probably would have re-shot it, expanded to 2 or more videos and turned it into a many day project. Saved by the snow...

Great video a lot of common sense right there. You speak with the authority that comes from legit experience. Thanks

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I'll usually just state stuff without too much qualification or disclaiming if I have a pretty high confidence that it's correct. But I think by default, I work partially on the assumption that people will consume information critically, even if it's not always really true :)

This is your best video ever.,. God bless you brother Love how you show us the work in details..

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

It took a while, but I thought it best to start with extreme examples and whittle it down into something that makes more sense. Especially since that is what people often have to do in real life.

Great vid and thoughts! Thanks for sharing!

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

You're welcome.

Excellent thoughts, one step closer to regaining what loggers knew 200 years ago. Two factors you might consider- 1) Matching the axe design to the job. Taking too small of an axe and reefing on it will create breakage no matter handle size. Splitting should be done with a maul, bucking with a 3.5 to 4lb felling axe, fine work with a smaller axe. This would eliminate most of the problems new axe users experience. 2) Proper grain in the wood will eliminate breakage in the toe and heel areas just under the head. Thank you, thinning a handle is crucial and I really enjoyed your approach to explaining it.

@SkillCult

2 жыл бұрын

You can get away with a lot using small axes. I'm a big fan in general and I rarely need anything else, though I prefer to spit with something bigger. But I'm not out cutting down and bucking a bunch of stuff over 12 inches. Breakage is also increased by death grip, which no experienced chopper will continue for long. There is a point as which it's nice to scale up, but a small head also puts less strain on the wood when it goes against the handle due to whatever various forces happen in chopping. The things that break most handles for beginners is low skill and not understanding a few important things about technique and approach.. Aim is a big one, hitting the handle on stuff. Another is over zealousness in general. Trying to drive the axe through the wood after it hits is also big. Death grip on the handle. Stuff like that.

Great video Steven!

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Great handle, the little I've used it. The councils are nice too with just a little tuning up. I think the last one I did ended up at very similar dimensions to your handle. Close at least.

A very experienced guide told me in the fifties and sixties that he didn't like the "Hudson Bay" style axe head (much like the short axe on your blackboard's right side) because the cutting edge was so much wider than the eye and applied a larger amount of leverage against the handle and resulted in more breakage than a head with cutting edge very similar in width to the eye width. A different angle on the same subject but I have always agreed with it in real world experience since then. Good topic. Take care. Doug

@SkillCult

5 жыл бұрын

Hudson Bay was my first axe. I learned to hate it lol. I'll have to tell that story sometime, but I got tired of replacing handles and honestly, they are not great choppers anyway. I always figured it had more to do with the short eye, but I can see what he's getting at I think. Perhaps a combination of the eye being smaller and that smaller mass being offset to much. I basically consider then a primitive design barely evolved from tomahawks. There are a lot of designs like that around the world, but it's easy to see why that was an early evolutionary form given that metal was very dear at one time.

Hi Steve, great video my friend!!😁😁 Looks like a little winter still hanging around yet. Take care my friend.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Just a little snow, we don't get it very often. Some people build snow men, I shoot video :)

@downeastprimitiveskills7688

6 жыл бұрын

I thought that was a green screen!

Looking at old felling axes, you can see for sure the handles were quite slim. I think you are correct in your reasoning.

just found your channel the other day when searching for tanning, lots of very informative information on many levels. I just viewed your vid on "Bull Thistle", man I yousta eat that stuff all the time during late winter / spring time when it was lush and green ( back when I was much younger ), thistle heads and all the plant, though of course the heads required some work to get to the innards. I loved that plant cuz no one else messed with it, thus great hoards of it grew everywhere.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I don't remember doing a video on that. Ive eaten a bunch of different thistles. I usually assume that they are edible if I can get to an edible part of the plant through the stickers. Some have good roots and others the peeled stems are good. I haven't died or got sick yet, but other people's mileage may vary....

Great info!! I am working on my first handle right now! Lol I carved it from a piece of pallet oak .. all I had .the grain orientation is sideways. Not right I know but it is my first one lol but this video is extremely helpful! Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and experience with us ...

@SkillCult

Жыл бұрын

Some people actually prefer the grain that way, so don't sweat that. It's not the most important factor. I have a video on grain runout, which is more important. Good luck!

@donscottvansandt4139

Жыл бұрын

@@SkillCult awesome! I have made a couple bows ... and there's actually 0 grain run-out! I had 2 boards and this one was the best ... so I kinda understand grain . But like every thing else... the more I know the more I know I don't know...

Well said Steven. I just bought a nice axe at harbor freight, for $23, can’t really go wrong price wise, in any case I totally agree with your statement of thinning the handles, be it not just for the suspension, but additionally for comfort as well. Thanks for everything you do and show us, from axes to apples Sam

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

you can go wrong if the handle is really bad, or it won't stay sharp enough to chop, but hopefully not. At some point, obviously handles can become too thin and vulnerable. Also, there are different types of stresses and different types of wood or grain violations that can make handles more or less vulnerable at different points.

The 4 in one also is useful in bow making. I agree totally with your views on handles, and do the same kind of things to mine. I also add a leather wrap, but it is just because I like how it looks as I do not think they help overmuch.

@SkillCult

5 жыл бұрын

Those shoe maker's rasps are a great multi purpose tool to have around. Leather helps less than some other things. A tight, compressive wrap can go a long way toward holding the wood together under stress, similar to backing a bow with rawhide or sinew. Leather has more cushion, but it's hard to get it really tight. I like rawhide, and it looks awesome, but it's a lot of work. Tape or cloth wrap works well.

I've studied engineering and your explations look sound to me. Stress concentration can be shown mathematically and displayed with different colours visually, but you can get the same understanding by just practical experiences like you have already

great point of opinion totaly agree with the theory Joe

Thank you , very informative, with the prices of replacement hickory handles in Europe, it makes sense to rework the one on the axe, i recently made a replacement one as the shipping cost from UK to Portugal was the same as the handle cost.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

A guy with over 80 years experience practical axe work and also an experimenter type said ash is the only wood to use anyway. I think it's time we all spit out the hickory coolaid.

@panamajohn2003

6 жыл бұрын

SkillCult - I partially respectfully disagree. Hickory is an amazing handle wood...but it’s certainly not the ONLY handle wood. I’ve made axe and hammer handles out of ash, oak, maple, whatever I had available. But I do think hickory is best. If I could find some Osage orange or locust I would like to experiment with those. Nathan Levin-Whenever I break a handle, I just work the broken handle down into a new handle for a smaller tool. My blacksmithing hammers nearly all have shaved down axe handles on them. My machinist and tack hammers have shaved down ball and cross peen hammer handles on them. I make knife and file handles out of the cutoffs. I get allot of mileage out of every scrap of hickory in my shop. The shavings go in my fire tinder kit bag.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I just offer that guy's preference for what it's worth. I don't think very experienced users might be the best judge of what is best for a beginner either. I've used mostly hickory, but obviously most of the world never had hickory for axe handles and we should probably be diversifying and trying more local woods.

@ryc3rz

6 жыл бұрын

Very interesting. I'm from Poland and from what I've heard Ash was always a wood of choice for handles (obviously there was no acces to hickory in Poland from the beggining of time to around 20 years ago)

Thanks, really learnt a lot from this video .

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

You are welcome.

Just recently found your channel an now I can't seem to stop watching videos on axes hell I even just bought two off eBay to clean up an put handles on them an go swing away. Now just finding good handles it sound like that might be hard. Great videos .

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Axes are fun! Check your hardware stores for handles first, you might get lucky. Stay safe :)

13:33 I frequented a bowyery forum in the mid 2000s and everybody started making these "Mollegabet bows". They were these big long bows with only a short piece of the limb near the handle doing the actual work, and then they transitioned to what you call the "Levers". The limbs were really wide and flat, and the levers were super skinny from left to right, but a little thicker front-to-back. This gave you almost all the benefits of a long bow while keeping the ends of the limbs ultra light. You'd get the string angle of a longer bow, but way faster. Some of the forum users did some pretty extensive testing to find the optimal thickness for the levers, in order to make the bows limbs as light as possible. What they found was that as a general rule, doubling the thickness of a piece of wood made it eight times stronger in that dimension. This is all anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt. Still something to think about though.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Interesting. Sounds like pushing the limits of the material to get higher performance. Doesn't matter as long as it doesn't fail. I think you could say the same thing about American axes with smaller eyes and thinner handles.

Good point. I believe it's attraction was lighter weight around here as well because it was used as a trapping axe carried on the pack (anyone remember the 'Trapper Nelson' pack??). Most of those were 3/4 axes. Take care. Doug

@SkillCult

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I think that may have been part of it. I think Indians and probably independent trappers would have likely been used to relatively light cheap axes anyway. I'm not sure, but I don't think there were ears on axes yet, or at least they weren't common. that would have provided an alternative to a short eye in a light axe. But they also could have shifted some of that very long blade into the body I guess.

Fantastic video

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

thank you.

Great video, you said all the things I have been thinking about flexing over the length of the handle to absorb shock and stress fatigue at the shoulder/head joint. I took the liberty to share the video to the AJ's. You have a great "user" perspective on axes compared to the folklore and mythology that most recite with out testing or logical thought. Keep up the good work.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I feel like I just set up and introduced the subject. There is a lot more to say and think about. Like at what point does the balance tip the other way and the now too thin handle is vulnerable to front to back stresses. and which impacts and uses favor different common breakages. Also, my perspective is still largely around European eyes. If the issue is striking a balance between eye thickness and handle flexibility, we could start asking if a handle on an axe with a thicker eye maybe should stay a little fatter. But, that all leaves out a lot about user preference and ergonomics that might affect total handle thickness and rate of transitions. I think there are compromises involved all around. My concern is mostly that gross differences in thickness in different parts of the handle are recognized as the potential problem that they are. It's a start. Thanks for sharing. I probably should have posted to AJ this morning. I'm terrible about getting stuff out and I'd rather someone else did it anyway. I'm not that comfortable with self promotion.

@the_sharp_carpenter

6 жыл бұрын

Hey, no worries I like to promote you. I'm trying to figure out how to get the cordwood challenge done, I may have to do it for friends as I don't heat with wood, only back yard fires. I just picked up an axe that has the thinnest handle I have ever put my hands on, almost uncomfortable. It is really beat up from over striking but still strong which would nod to your theory about sharp transitions. It all makes sense to me as we see how this works even in steel, just look at a sheer pin, sharp shoulders= snapping point. Obviously that is the point of a sheer pin, but logic would say be as far away from that design as possible to avoid snapping a handle. I've been thinking about running a mechanical test on handles, to observe factors like grain orientation, guards, and wood selection. However, realistically I would need to run at least 5-10 handles per variable to get good results, and that's out of the budget lol. Again keep up the good work.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I think you could get some good information from testing, but it's still not real life. Information like that is great, but it's relevance is often blown out of proportion. I probably won't do it, unless I'm trying to make a point in a video. For chopping, we really should be using the handle to loosely guide the direction and that doesn't require a lot of control or a strong grip. That's why burly lumberjacks could swing thin narrow handles all day with outstanding accuracy. It's a common misconception that thin handles lack the ability to control the axe, or that they steal power by being too flexible. I think they probably increase power if we're chopping with a sustainable light handed technique, but I've yet to try to prove it.

@the_sharp_carpenter

6 жыл бұрын

I would agree that they increase power, you don't see professional golfers using a baseball bat they use thin whippey handles to create acceleration with extreme accuracy while they are calm and relaxed. I have found that to be true of chopping, the more I try to "muscle" the axe the less accurate I am and lower accuracy means more strikes required to get the head to its destination. My reasoning for a test on handles would be to try to show that things like "perfect" grain and other things that people put huge stock in are far less critical as individual parts, instead of looking at the whole "system". I'm sure some would ignore the results while others would cling to the information as a reason to make poor choices..lol This is a great conversation that I hope more people that use axes start having.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

"I'm sure some would ignore the results while others would cling to the information as a reason to make poor choices..lol " ha ha, probably :)

It would be great if a materials engineer or structural engineer would chime in... This is their metier. A smooth transition is key. That reduces the "shearing" effect of the applied forces. I've considered a radius on the lower edge of the eye to displace the stress over a greater surface area. This is where someone with experience in breaking handles may have some input as well... digging the snow and trees in the background!

Great videos, from Scandinavian tradition, we have narrower handles than heads in both directions of thickness, to your points of flexibility. I have both inherited multiple old axe shafts and heads hundreds of years old, and make my own ash handles, with your advice.

@niqnact1121

Жыл бұрын

I would love help. My hickory double bit ace handle broke and I’m really discouraged because I thought built it well but it split down the middle of the handle. Rhe head was fine but the handle wasn’t. Is there anyway I can have help?

Great content and delivered very well. The best example of close to -perfection of an Axe Handle are the early handles on Vintage axes from the Golden Era. They Usually were premium Hickory exhibiting the best in grain and density. Those old quality handles were Thin but strong. They exhibit all the important characteristics you bring to light. I’ve bought old non marked American made Axes that a lot of people would pass up-mainly for an excellent specimen of a handle in excellent condition. Most of those old unmarked heads from 40+ years ago are of super quality-but likely had just a paper Lable. They make superior tools compared to 90% of Newer tools sold today 🇺🇸

@SkillCult

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah and they are not the hard to gain the trust of. My friend had one he used to feed flies every morning in front of his shop.

In addition to the 4 way rasp, my favorite tools for thinning/shaping a handle is a spoke shave and a draw knife. I also use the draw knife as a make shift card scraper by orienting the edge perpendicular to the surface of the wood. I’ve also used a modified machete blade, sharpened with a single bevel chisel grind as a handle scraper.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Spoke shaves are pretty awesome. One nice thing about the rasp is it's easy to use with one hand. Of course with an axe, you can stick it in a stump, so that opens up the possibility of using two handed tools. I would recommend staying away from drawknives for anyone that is not pretty experienced as it's so easy to do a lot of damage really fast if the grain isn't carefully attended to. I like your machete scraper idea. Rasp is also particularly nice for curves in transitions.

@panamajohn2003

6 жыл бұрын

SkillCult -depending on how deep the rabbit hole of back country fabrication you want to go, Dave Canterbury from the Pathfinder school has a whole series on using his basic 5 tool kit to carve out a work bench from a stump, and from there he goes to town with wedges etc. He had a mini-draw knife he forged out of an old file that he has in his kit specifically to hog out crude tool handles. I think that’s a rather specialized tool for to carry on my back for pioneering, but I’m thinking about making a few for my shop to fit in the hierarchy between spike shave and full size draw knife.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

If I had my most basic 5 tools for small scale wood fabrication without vices, the shoemaker's rasp would be one of them. A vise changes everything though. I tend to think basic, light and portable, but that's just a different paradigm than most people think in.

man you do in depth theory i like it

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I'm just getting started with this subject :)

Good choice for the closing image. Reminds of the Old Gods in that Celtic/Norse way. Kinda fitting with axes and forestry as the topic at hand.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

yeah, that was a cool photo op

Great video with lots of insights into axe handle design, thanks! As I don't own an axe with a composite handle this might be a dumb questions. Are generally these structural, and for some part ergonomic, design flaws also present with handles made of composite materials? I would like to think that the properties of these composites used would influence how they are designed rather then simply repeating the same handle patterns and therefore replicating the flaws. One drawback using composites is, I guess, it's limitations on user customization of the handle.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I don't know enough about them. Literally the only one I own is a maul handle, which is one piece the same thickness all the way up and down, so it probably flexes into the handle. Its so much stronger though that it probably doesn't matter too much. Then again, cutting across the fiberglass fibers might lead to breakage in the same way as wood? dunno.

Excellent info! Just broke mine from the side stress. Ground it down and it just isnt the same. Also the grapes and apple seeds are in the ground. Look forward to eating...in a few years! LOL

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Very common breakages. Keep us informed on those apple seedlings :)

Great insights here! I think most just feel thicker = stronger without thinking of the whole picture.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

exactly

2:30 The physics of these glancing blows are the radial forces toward the center (Fc; centripetal), the tangential force (Ft) acting in any direction other than toward the center thus changing the speed and/or vector of that object, and there is some angular force caused by the lever mechanism (torque) at the head/handle junction during the glancing impact.

@mthompson

6 жыл бұрын

All of these forces have some component of Mass in the equation....when you solve the Force equations for the axe head mass vs the handle mass....the differences in the acting forces on each (due in part because of the differences in mass as they are both traveling the same velocity and angle essentially) can be large enough to cause shearing.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure I understand all that, but it's something to think about. Another factor bay be how hard the grip is. I've thought about handle mass a bit, but hard to say in real life how any of it plays out. It seems like a heavy handle is more likely to stay still when the axe head changes direction up to a point, but flexibility seems more key to me intuitively.

having just got into swinging an axe “seriously” in the last couple years; this subject had me vexed for the longest time until you mentioned it. I really hope this new axe craze breathes life back into the axe market in the states. Brant and Cochran.. I think that’s the name.. out of maine is in the process of forging their own wedge camp axe “allagash cruiser” in homage to oakland’s emerson & stevens (their words not mine) its an interesting design to say the least but I’m hoping we are seeing the spark that reshapes how axes are viewed and manufactured.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

That's cool someone is making a wedge axe. I've only used mine a bit, but so far so good I guess.

I believe manufacturers make thick handles because a lot of consumers mistakenly think a thicker handle is stronger. So they buy the thickest they can find.

I don't have as much experience using axes as you do, but based on what I know from 20 years of general woodworking, carving, &c, what you say makes a lot of sense to me.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I'd say what I think I understand about it has as much to do with intuition based on other wood working and working with any materials as it does with formulating theories specifically around axes. If I put an axe head on the end of a baseball bat, a lot of people, and certainly people like you, intuit instantly that there is a problem and the eye is vulnerable to breakage. I find if very useful to take things to extremes to elucidate potential problems. Put an axe on a baseball bat or on a pool cue and we have instantly established boundaries and formulated important questions.

I agree with everything you mentioned. I would add that you should bevel or round the edges of the metal on the handle side of the eye and even taper the opening a good bit. Wood will flex at a smooth transition but break clean at a sharp one. It does make fitting a handle more difficult as you don't roll a shaving of wood when test fitting the handle but softening the shear line reduces breakage be it hammer or axe.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I definitely agree with that and have mentioned it elsewhere. I think we might also consider making that more radical. But, at least take of the sharp edge I say.

You seem like a fascinating guy to hang out with. I'd be particularly interested in any videos about blacksmithing if you get back into it. At least I would feel like less of a neophyte in that area, as it's something I've dabbled in as a hobby. I've doubled the number of axes I own because of you, BTW.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

If I do anything on smithing it will just be to demystify and make it seem accessible, which it is. Dig a hole in the ground, get some charcoal, an air source a chunk of metal to pound on and a hammer and start heating things up and hitting them. You can always start upgrading from there. I'm not an accomplished smith, but my goal is to just be a reasonably competent farm type smith, so it's there when I need it.

That makes sense to me. I've seen not experienced, axes with petite handles handle much much more work than axes with thicker handles. I have a council tool pack axe and I have noticed that the handle being as thin as it is, actually feels better to use and also it seems to absorb shock better.

@SkillCult

4 жыл бұрын

I like the council tool handles a lot. I still thin them more though. If you look at old axes on ebay, the difference is pretty obvious.

We just need to get you one of them new-fangled fiberglass handles ;) Kidding of course. Great video

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I do actually want one for my truck and actually, another for my car. Just so there's always something in there. In our summers a wood handle would lose a pound of weight in a car with the windows rolled up.

@demagmusic

6 жыл бұрын

SkillCult I put a guitar in trunk for a couple hours once. ooops. It (and I) did not enjoy the experience. Good point!

Great video Steven! Have you tried the Shinto rasp for shaping? I have one and love it.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I like them. My old one wore out. I have a new one, but I always forget about it. I have lots of other rasps too, but I tend to grab the shoemakers rasp, because I use all of the options and have acceess to all with just a quick flip.

@joesneon

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your response. Joe

@KillingerUSA

6 жыл бұрын

joesneon it's a sweet rasp!! Lol

@aldredske6197

6 жыл бұрын

joesneon :)Hi Joe!!😁😁

Excellent! I saw your other video about House Handles, I got one of their Boy's Axe handles, premium octagonal , looks like the one you got. a tiny bit warped , but I set it back with a clamp on a table . It's the backup handle for my brand new Council Hudson Bay, which so far has been pretty awesomely hung with a slim, straight handle. Oh, But the handle grain is horizontal. But I'm paying attention to technique and just doing camp firewood and fatwood so good chance it will survive . What is your opinion on wrapping the neck section with paracord? God I hate it when you doink the handle and now there's a dent. Yeah the boy's axe has too wide shoulders so I'll slim those down if I ever end up mounting that handle. God some of those handles are atrocious!

i made the transition at the back of the handle to sudden on my last re-hang, a piece split off the back just from seating the head down onto the handle. i managed to get the axe hung but i don't think i can jump it down again if it comes loose. the handle has a boundary between sap and heart wood running through the back transition increasing the chance of it splitting apart as well.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I think the rapidity of transitions and having actual sharp angles of any kind can end up being major player. I do some relatively fast transitions on the back but that has to do with other factors. Ultimate strength can be subjugated by ergonomics. Plus, there are other areas of the handle that are weak and can be potentially made vulnerable by other design issues. It's clear to me though that the area below the eye with it's transitions can be improved in a lot of axes and is totally ignrored as a factor sometimes.

This is very very helpful, more than an other video I’ve seen so far. Thank you. I inherited an axe with an excessive amount of timber near the head , just as you have described only even more than you have described, plus with a very long handle (to long for my swing) the handle tapered to a thin grip (again to thin for my hand). The timber head the head had serious damage from (I assume) of swinging, with large splits and cracks make the axe unusable. But the axe was very well balanced and light to use. I cut the head off and reset it further down the handle (about 8-10” lower). Now it has “mid” length handle (a bit short, but ok) though now it is top heavy (odd considering the mass of timber that was at the head - as much as the axe head itself) . So now the axe is top heavy and a bit short. My question is is there a head weight to handle length ratio?

@SkillCult

3 жыл бұрын

I don't really think there is any best weight/length ratio. at least not in truly practical sense. If you watch my other axe content, you'll quickly find out I'm a fan or short light axes, in the "boys axe" or "pulpwood axe" range. about 2.25 to 3 lb on a 27 to 30 inch handle. Check out my man Ben Scott too on YT. He has some good axe content.

I noticed you used the back of a pen knife for taking wood off a handle. It looked really effective, could you show me how you did the knife. Was it a forward movement of the HORIZONTAL to the knife blade or diagonal to the knife blade? Great learning from your site, thanks. Rich.

@SkillCult

5 жыл бұрын

You can watch this video for a lot more of that kzread.info/dash/bejne/f6itxbV7hde2YNI.html It's best to just tip it around a little until it cuts best. I typically use it at 90º degrees to the handle length, but the angle of attack matters a lot and varies. Small variations can make a big difference, but it's easy to make slight adjustments. Most people use the blade, but the back can be really good and saves the blade from rapid dulling. It doesn't have to be super sharp either, just draw file it a little to a perfect right angle. I had started a whole video on scraping with knives, but was not able to finish it. Hopefully I'll still do that someday.

I have had several sledge hammer handles all but shear at the head from overstrikes that hit squarely on the handle and did not glance off. Maybe just me, but food for thought

@SkillCult

5 жыл бұрын

One thing to think about with those is that they are not very thick in the front to back direction like an axe handle is. Also, there is a tremendous amount of weight for that skinny little eye. So, it's not really too surprising. you have all this momentum come to a sudden stop, and a point of contact near the eye, the head keeps moving and shears off at the weakest point.

Very interesting. Cook in his chapter on handles also makes a case for straight vs curved in the single-bitted ax handles. What are your thoughts on this? Another failure by design that contributes to breaks & inaccuracies, or have your experiences been different?

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I think that drastic curves are silly and weak, I don't see the percentage in that kind of design. There is an ergonomic advantage sometimes to a curve at the butt of the handle for the wrists that I never see discussed. I don't have a lot of opinion otherwise. I can say that the everyday working disadvantages of a straight handles are few except for close bucking work. They can be easily adapted to, but a moderately curved handle is perfectly effective and quite accurate if someone is just a competent chopper. I think any heated discussion on the subject is unwarranted. it's not that big of a deal for practical work. Probably just something to argue about :)

I have used hardwood pallet boards which lasted for years. Pallets that end up in Labrador tend to be made of maple.

@SkillCult

5 жыл бұрын

Groovy. Laminated?

I would love help. My hickory double bit ace handle broke and I’m really discouraged because I thought built it well but it split down the middle of the handle. The head was fine but the handle wasn’t. Is there anyway I can have help from just anyone with that wisdom. Is there anyway I can send someone a picture of it?

The fat wood under the head leaves a place where the wood knows where to break, at the transition from the eye to the handle, the abrupt change . If it has a slow transition into the handle the break doesn't know where to start. I see this same thing in timber frame joinery decisions, specifically in joists. If you have a 10" deep tie beam with 8" joists dropping into pockets along the tie, the joist are usually reduced in depth at the tie/joist location. There is a few way to make that reduction on the joist end, a square cut, a cut with a 45 degree slope or use an adze to sweep the reduction back into the joist. I usually do this in a jig or in place by inserting the joist in upside down and adzing them to the pocket depth then flipping the joist over, no lay out needed. Video below show working adze ends in a jig on the shop floor. I hope that was a green screen. Although your still at the end, of the deer head with snow on it, suggest you got a spring snow. We are having some good old northeast blows here getting from 1-2 feet of wet heavy snow over the next two days. Is there more details on your axe give away? kzread.info/dash/bejne/rIanudGOe8qepNI.html

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I think that's a good anthropomorphic way to articulate it. It's probably about distribution of stress again. Even a small gradual transition should make less of a difference in behavior under stress, because there the difference between the thinnest and thickest parts is distributed over a slope. That makes initiation of the crack delay that little bit more and if the crack can't initiate, it can't exist. The axe isn't ready. I have to grind it, use it a little and I may put a rawhide collar on it. I"m not sure how I'm going to do it yet. Don't hold your breath. I just want to make sure it's ready to chop.

Hey Stephen..I went back a couple of years looking for info on bowl gouge handles. I recently purchased a Narex, Czech made ,fairly inexpensive bowl adze, basically to give it a workout. Well of course, the first thing I did was remove all the "varnish" and the black paint on the top at junction with head. Then I began the "Skillcult" method of fitting it to my hand, contouring, smoothing , thinning (again to feel better in the palm) etc. until I was able to see a fairly nice piece of wood. It says they use ash, not sure of species, ?? Fraxinum excelsior perhaps, but it looks/feel ok, especially after a couple hand rubbed layers of wood catalyzed oil. Anyway, the grain is 90 degrees of what we desire on good hickory/ash axe handles. So.. my question is, would this be deliberate by the OEM since it's not "flelxing" per se as in longer thinner handles ; does it matter (like a small hatchet??) I have't started to work the steel so I have no idea if this is a keeper or not. I'll be grinding, honing and stropping soon. Thanks for your opinion. Wouldwork.

@SkillCult

3 жыл бұрын

There is a school of thought that thinks that grain orientation is better and more springy. I don't think it matters that much.

Wow I cant find any finite element analysis of any axes or axe handles. This is so strange that such large industry with problems of cracking hasn't done this (or they dont publish the data). Maybe there is one, but i cant find it.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I don't know what that means, but they should totally do that :)

Good video. Don't forget wear and tear on the axman from a handle that won't flex! Not to mention balance. I take that whole area around the throat of the ax down just so I can grasp it without fatiguing my hands. Way too big for a usable grip if you ever have to choke up, especially with an over-strike guard of any kind over it. Was that black painted axe you were handling in the beginning of the video one of the mid-grade Council axes? Any input, I bought two of the cheaper boys axes and the first one wasn't tempered well and rounded over bucking my first round, the second was really loose grained hickory and the head broke off like a piece of chalk into my second round. 3rd time's the charm?

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Yes to all that. I cut quite a bit of stuff out in editing trying to keep mostly to the idea of stress and breakage just below the eye. This could easily have expanded into a multi video handle thing and probably will eventually. Actually, I might have reshot it if the snow didn't melt, but I really wanted to use this take just for the atmosphere :) Saved by the weather. I suspect that if we were to look only at breakage and not ergonomics, cutting in closer to the head as I did in examples would not be the strongest thing, but Ergonomics have to play a role. I"ll sacrifice quite a bit for a higher performing, more ergonomic tool. I tend to just keep whittling that area down until I can easily use it up near the head. I do that in the upcoming video on dealing with the Husqvarna axe handle. That is the council forest service specification boy's axe. I don't think the handle grade is probably significantly different.The head is supposed to be a better grade of steel and more carefully tempered. it's looking like the budget axes from them are very hit and miss. Have you sent them back to the company?

Woah! Posted 6 minutes ago :D So fresh! Edit: I've recently gotten very lucky with my local hardware shop. I found a couple of nice axe handles (spotted gum here in Aus), and I have used these several times in the past as a base and found them to be fairly heavy/typical of what you will find today mounted to an axe. The most recent handles however, are MUCH closer to where they need to be. They still need a little material taken off as they feel a little too thick to me, but compared to how they used to be (same brand etc.), we're talking maybe a 20 minute job with a knife edge rather than having to break out a spokeshave/rasp as I used to (spokeshave on spotted gum is not a fun experience). The difference between the eye section and the raised part where the handle appears, is maybe... 4-5mm? Basically I just need to round the handle as it feels a little more like a rounded rectangle, so it just needs the radius extended to round it further and shes good to go.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

That's good to hear. Good handles are very hard to find around here, though other's report finding them. It might be a regional thing.

I ended up getting a spokeshave just to thin the handle on my Hults (same model as the husqvarna you showed in the vid). I wish I'd measured before but it was reminiscent of a barn pole. After much thinning/profiling it's down to 3/4" in the belly area up to 13/16" cross section in the throat. Funny how I hated it before and it's a joy to use now. My council jersey took way less work to the haft.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Council has nice handles. I just shot the husqvarna handle vid. I'm not that thin yet, but I'll just nibble away at is when I use it, til it's right. Huge improvement already. It went from a heavy club to a svelt little filly. Dump truck to race car. I wish I had weighed the whole axe first. I used just scraping and the rasp. It did take a long time. geez. I actually didhn't want to use a spokeshave, because most people don't own one. If they do, they probably don't need me to tell them to use it. With something like council, I'd actually prefer to scrape it down, with a little rasping for transitions.

@quintond.7888

6 жыл бұрын

You're a more patient man than I. Lol! I had the spokeshave when I bought the council but I don't believe I even had to use it. On the breakage subject, have you ever used Osage? I read a few years back that it was the preferred bow wood (sometimes even called that) for native americans. My chainsaw and I both know it's tougher than anything else I've tried to cut, super dense and allegedly very flexible. I'm wondering if it may not be the next step up from hickory.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Bow woods are not just about flexibility, but also recovery. It's the two together than can make a really great bow wood. Some woods may flex fine, but the recovery is slow, or not full recovery, so the bow stays bent or gradually takes a set. If I recall right, hickory might have an inferior recovery to locust and osage, but that probably also means that it's less brittle. So, of course, like anything, it gets more complicated the more you dig. Chances are that woods with slightly poorer recovery might be a little tougher and more resistant to shattering. There is also toughness as regards splitting. I think of locust as quite tough longitudinally, but easier to split than hickory, so there is another factor to think about. My experience with Osage is very limited. I just compare it to locust because they are similar woods, though not taxonomically related.

@quintond.7888

6 жыл бұрын

Interesting. I never considered recovery as a necessary attribute to haft material but it makes perfect sense. I have access to hickory and Osage here and black locust on the home place in KY. Sounds like I need to experiment. Going to need a couple more axe heads...lol

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I mis-typed handle instead of bow, just fixed. I don't think recovery is much of an issue with a handle. As long as it's not extreme it could be a benefit. it may be that a wood with poorer recovery could be less brittle. Just a thought from whatever impressions I have the little I know about the subject of bow making.

what do you think about the square eyes on japanese axes? i always thought this would help prevent the sides of the eyes from blowing out on the axe head, for example if your using the poll to hammer with, the design of the western axes with the thin walled oval eye is really bad for this, i have even heard the sides of eyes buldging out with allot of re-handling. but idk how it would affect the handle durability. also somewhat related, what do you think about the straight handle vs curved / erogonomic handle debate? ive generally heard straight handles are more accurate but curved handles are more comfortable.

@SkillCult

5 жыл бұрын

I have not used any of the more squared axe eyes, but one thing they all have in common is more mass in the eye, which makes them a lot more robust. I don't think the eyes blowing out is a significant real life problem. I've rarely seen axes that are even distorted in they eye, let along broken. Not that it doesn't happen, but it's almost always from gross metal on metal abuse. I did a video looking at axe heads and every single used poll axe on the table had at least some mushrooming on the head from being beat on, or using as a hammer on metal. But only one of the worst examples had a small amount of visible distention. So, designing around that possibility is probably a misplaced priority, much like overbuilding knives as you said in another comment. With axe design, I think they just evolved rather slowly from primitive wrapped eye types (like viking axes and traditional tomahawks) and that cultures tend to be conservative and change stuff like that slowly. Without getting into the possible reasons why, I think American axes evolved into more high performance tools in some ways at the expense of robustness seen in most, if not all, old world axes. German axes and many others also tend to have a square back. I dont' have a strong opinion on curved v.s. straight. Given that timbersports people universally use curved handles and are the most accurate and that many axes have been used for ages with straight handles, including almost all double bits, we can clearly get away with either. The main problem I've had with straight handles is that they are less comfortable for bucking, where a short curve at the end helps, at least with the short axes I prefer to work with mostly. I'm not sure about the theory that a double curve compensates for imbalance in poll axes. Most axes of the world are grossly imbalanced and can still be made to work, though personally I prefer more balance. I think people should chop more and argue about that kind of stuff less lol.

What are your thoughts on the hour glass shape in the eye in regards to strength. Wood under compression is it an advantage? A lamination (by pressure) with the wedge and the handle wood does this make it stronger or weaker? At what point does the wood in he eye stop taking impact forces and simply hold the head on? I’ve had hammers handles break in the eye and am not sure why.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I have not thought about that deeply yet, but I was thinking recently about changing the flare in the eye. I've also meant for a while to just bust out a pile of axe heads and measure them out to see what is really going on in there. I can never tell a lot by just looking in the eye. It seems like there is potential there to reduce stress. I've also thought about other possibilities with the bottom of the eye that I'm not ready to discuss yet.

@johnwaw6363

6 жыл бұрын

SkillCult smoothing out a chamfer...? I like it. Hey really glad to see your getting more subs. You deserve more and more. I always look forward to your videos. I’m working my way to some of the older ones you have that I haven’t seen yet. The list is shrinking. Great content.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Maybe. Same concept of spreading the stress regardless.

I'm looking at my axes and see a couple candidates for some thinning and oiling. Even when I carve my own handles I tend to make them too thick. It's kind of a reverse psychology, where less is actually more. Excuse me if you have already addressed this, but what are your thoughts on heat treating or burning the handles?

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Keep in mind that there are other types of stress and in some cases, extra thickness may be a benefit. Given that fact, there are compromises to be made. Also, grain violations and wood quality could make a difference. I just see it as cosmetic and if anything, it seems like it would weaken the wood and make it easier to initiate fractures. Tha'ts just me thinking though, I don't have much experience with it. I don't see an advantage.

@tikiduck

6 жыл бұрын

I just remember that they used to heat treat baseball bats, and wondered if there was something to it that could be applied to axe handles. Something about the heat drawing the resins to the surface of the wood.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Heat treating can increase hardness, so maybe that has to do with impact/compression resistance. I don't see that as a benefit with an axe handle It's hard to imagine that it makes it more tough in terms of initiation v.s. prevention of cracks, but I don't know anything about that specifically.

I agree ,smooth transition and grain orientation will be the most important for strength and durability for everything on earth. I have been working with metal for over 20 years and they are two of the most important things to watch for, bend metal across the grain and round all sharp edges .Just follow natures blueprints for a better product lol .

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I put end grain orientation lower on the list than a lot of things at this point. Grain runout is super important though for sure.

@welderman1971

6 жыл бұрын

I agree with you I have an old axe with orientation going at a 45 and works fine. I was thinking about what you where saying about to much wood and orientation around the axe head makes perfect sense ,its all about the flex to strength ratio.

Thanks for the video. Quick question about your Amazon affiliate link... will it work for me on Amazon.ca in (Canada) instead of Amazon.com? Also are you able to add more items easily?

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I need to set it up to do that, but I haven't done it yet. When I do, my links will work for a bunch of countries using the same link, canada, germany, japan, uk and more

@kyphilburg

6 жыл бұрын

SkillCult I'll keep an eye on it then. There are a few things there I want to aquire over time but a lot of it isn't urgent.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Don't sweat it. It will happen when it happens. I appreciate it though. The Amazon link income does contribute.

I just re-hung a "Made in W Germany" 3 lb ax ( no makers mark) It's probably 50 yo. The handle (probably original) on this ax was incredibly well designed. Not extra wood at all - Just saying - thanks for the video.

What shape do you prefer for ergonomics? Also, why does the cutting edge on the bit curve, that is, sweep backward? In my limited experience, I prefer an almost straight cutting bit with slight sweeps on either end. I'm guessing lumberjacks found that the sweep might help unstick an axe, but it also gives you less cutting area and theoretically could cause more rolling deflections, no? Just curious when and why axe manufactures started making heads that way.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

If you mean handle shape, there are numerous possible things to discuss. I don't have super specific criteria, more like a set of boundaries that I don't like to go out of. I've never understood or physically felt any advantage to very curved designs, and more like the opposite. I like to be able to slide my hand very easily right up near the head, so I'll modify that are until it feels right, even if it theoretically would make the axe slightly more vulnerable to breakage. I don't like very curved outlines either. As far as being straight or almost straight, I'm not ready to say much on that at this point, but I'm very curious to set up a totally straight wedge and use it. I like the idea of establishing that point by actually using it a bit. Otherwise I'm just speculating. Dudley Cook talke about straight edges v.s. curved int he axe book, but prefered fairly straight. If you mean the fact that the toe usually leads the heel of the axe, that is to improve the hand and where the bit contacts the wood naturally.

@KevinsDisobedience

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I’m restoring an old Council Tools axe my grandad left me, so your recent content on bits and handles are very relevant to me. I’m still curious why and when cutting edges started to curve like half moons-especially double-bitted axes, which seem to be curved the most. I don’t own one, so I’m basing this on what I’ve seen. I’ll have to pick up Cook’s book on axes. Thanks

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Definitely pick up cook. Preference is sometimes expressed for different curvatures for soft v.s. hard woods. Personally I never noticed much difference so far, but I haven't been paying much attention either. Dudley preferred more straight edges, but he was also from Main where straighter wedge axes seem to have been a thing. Completely straight edges seem to be rare though.

@KevinsDisobedience

6 жыл бұрын

I suspect a completely straight edge would stick more, but I really can’t see a downside besides the sticking. I’ve noticed the Grandfors are mostly straight edged, though I e never owned one because they seem overpriced to me. That said, I probably will someday because they seem to be making the axe I want. Thanks.

I've heard aside from the muscle mass and skeletal design, a gorilla can hurl a rock a lot harder and farther than a human because their arms are much longer than ours. A longer handle might then allow us to have more ape-like arm extensions up to a point than a shorter handle. Yes, you lose accuracy...but where is the nexus where longer is not stronger or practical? Poleaxes were a thing. And what do you think of handles that are taper fit to the head....you hit the other end to release the steel axehead and hit the head on a hard object to friction fit the head.

Guys, I'm lucky because the 1st axe I ever rehung was able to role a 3' maple about 10' in length over on flat ground. Really wished I watched this 1st

I think the thick handle is there to protect against shaft strikes..."more wood, more better" being the logic. I'm guess they assume most axe buyers are unskilled oafs who cannot hit what they're aiming at, and they'll gladly trade a little shear strength in for mishit protection. (For all I know, they aren't wrong).

@SkillCult

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I think it's that and more in general just more wood must be stronger. The forces on a stressed axe handle are complicated, including hitting the handle on wood. the inertia of the heavy head still wants to keep travelling forward, stressing trendle breakage and what the impacts that broke them were to get a good idea of how those stresses commonly play out. My guess is that most handle breakages from handle strikes are still going to initiate at the juncture of head and handle, or be due to handle weaknesses like runout. That v.s. just cumulative damage to the handle wood and not breakage. THanks for commenting.

Totally off topic... it that a SkillCult mug and where can I get one?

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Only one in existence! My friend made it for me. I'll let her know though. Maybe she'd be willing to go into production :)

woah that background is so clean it looks like a chroma key.

woah snow

Regarding the ears, it seems intuitive to me that the ever so slightly flared inside surface of the ears is the mechanism that should serve to prevent the handle from stressing on that sharp fulcrum during a side load. Also to distribute stress across a greater surface area with no when that side load becomes extreme (like when prying open a split round) Think of it like a pipe bender, a pipe bender doesn't crease conduit piping because there is never an unsupported or sharp edge This could only work if the axe was hung quite well, but it's how I envision it That was extremely incoherent, time for coffee

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I"m unsure about the flare. I'm not sure most axes like that actually have a flair, but I think it would be ideal if they were formed on a drift that took the shoulder into account and made the ear a gradually thinning ramp on the inside. I did that with a file on my Husqvarna, but I didn't take meaurements first, so I'm not sure if there was any natural flare. I'm thinking there wasn't. Bottom line, as a blacksmith, if I were making that type of axe, I would make the eye continue to widen to the ends of the ears. I think it is worth thinking about the idea that it could be so thin that it would actually flex a little under stress, which could be a huge benefit. Maybe they already do, but maybe it could be exploited as a design feature. I agree that the longer edge created by the ear must be a factor. As the pressure is applied, there should be a high amount of pressure on the tip of the ear and gradually less as going toward the eye. Intuitively, it makes sense that this would make rapid shearing less likely. On the surface, it might seem like having extra stress on one point could cause more rapid failure, but I don't think that is the case, though I'm not sure why. An engineer would probably know why. I'll probably figure it out, but I haven't yet. For me, I might have to relate it to how something else works and make an analogy. Already though, I'm inclined think that ideally no axe in our current paradigm would have a straight line at the bottom of the eye. I think if you designed the bottom of the axe and the eye around that problem, from the perspective of identifying and solving the problem, instead of taking what we have and using small amounts of amelioration to fix inherent problems with current design, it would look quite a bit different than anything we have now. That may be true of a lot of things. Most problems are approached from the current paradigm instead of approaching it new from an attempt to understand the system and it's inherent problems. Cofffeeee......

Do you still like the Stella Bianca 4 in one rasp?

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Quality seems good, but it's too small and the teeth are quite fine. I like the more multipurpose standard design better for this kind of stuff. I just need to buy them all and test them.

@N8urecure

6 жыл бұрын

That would be awesome; I would very interested to get your recommendation after you put them all through their paces!

two suggestions: 1. take your axe(s) to blacksmith and widen the eyelet. 2. weld metal handle wrapped by ribbon ,textile,silicone or leather.(somebody says --- lifetime warranty).

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

The larger European eyes might be good for casual users, but I don't think that American eyes were reduce to the smallest workable dimension for no reason. Looking at the thing as a system composed of axe and head, taking a large eyed axe and slimming the handle down to a more high performance thin design starts to upset the balance in the other direction. Metal handles aren't worth considering to me. There are reasons they have never become popular.

@iridios6127

6 жыл бұрын

+SkillCult In My H(ard as rock solid) Opinion : manufacturer for the goal to maximise his profit do not to produce normal size fullmetal axes ,they try to save good metal for making only heads , besides some of the most progressive companies. Also I think --- Wilton B.A.S.H. handling technology -- is a best performed technology in nowadays.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

I hadn't seen those. I'm naturally skeptical, but I don't see why it might not be possible to make a composite material that would perform well and work comfortably. In fact, I've been thinking about experimenting with that. That's if very different thought than welding a steel handle on the head.

I’ve never really had any issues with tool handles breaking outside of flat out abuse. I don’t care if manufactures keep thick handles, cause I can just shave it down, sure it’s a pain, but whatever. Grain also doesn’t affect me, I don’t care which way the grain runs, My grandfather has a completely wrong grained axe since about the 60s. Still uses it on the daily today. And I’ve never had some I’ve made break. It’s all about personally preference though. If I had one complaint to manufacturers it would be about palm swells. A lot of palm swells are massive and give me blisters right in he bottom of my hand, I always end up almost completely removing them, no matter how much I toughen up my hands, the swells always kill me.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Well, may you continue to not break handles. You don't chop aggressively from what I've seen. That is a major factor. I don't have big opinions on butt designs. If it bugs me I deal with it.

@zachmeyer2718

6 жыл бұрын

SkillCult I really get agresive when I”get into the swing of things”. Over the past summer I built a log cabin and really went at it. Was chopping so hard my joints hurt. But I think my arm would have broken before my axe handle did. That video wasn’t exactly my full potential of chopping ability, not exactly proud of that performance, but hey I hadn’t done any serious chopping in a while.

@AndreRMeyer

6 жыл бұрын

+Double Bit Craftsman as soon as you add another g and an s to the word 'agresive' you'll be in the swing of things, there is no no doubt in my mind. Keep on buckin' in the tree world -stay safe

Why dont axes use the same handle design as mattocks and tomahawks? Seems like an easier handle to make and seat... Is it because they are less comfortable?

@SkillCult

4 жыл бұрын

They used to. That is more old school and some traditional axes still do, most notably the Basque axes. It solves many of these problems, but the eyes and heads are quite fat. As to why that has been evolved away from, my guess is higher performance and getting the axe thickness down to a more optimal functional dimension. It did cause a lot of problems.

The word your looking for is "stress riser "

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Groovy.

To break or not to break, that is the answer.

Definitely know what you are saying. Caught a sale on a Cold Steel Trail Boss (first time I've had anything even close to Hudson's Bay pattern, not sure I'm sold on having half as much eye to grip the handle), and the handle was way too thick. I've done a little sanding but need much more scraping/rasping. Does not feel right in the hand. Speaking of flex/resilience: I know nothing of golf, have no use for it (except golf balls are fun to shoot with a .45), but I heard of a teaching tool that was a driver with a flexible handle. If one's swing was correct, it could be used. Likewise, the axeman with a correct swing does not need much rigity in the handle, but should have some resilience.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Having less eye sucks. I ditched those type patterns a long time ago. Someone mentioned in golf the head lagging behind the handle is a thing. I think that is probably true in using axes with flexible handles as well. Also true in atlatls.

@lanedexter6303

6 жыл бұрын

Good point. Hadn't considered an atlatl, but too much whip in handle would cause the head to lag.

I think to some extent a handle should come thicker, for the same reason the edge should be thicker than desired, my reasoning behind my theory is that you can always take away metal or take away wood, but you can't put it back so you can shape the edge exactly how thin you like it and you can make the handle to your preferred diameter to get a custom shape, but the important part is users knowing why not to use a huge thick handle.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Sure, that's reasonable. At some point, if you want to know the limit though, you have to push it. It's much thinner than most people think though. That assumes a lot though, about the type of stress and wood quality. Type and amount of stress depends on the user too though. I'm not the best person to test the durability of a handle for a complete beginner and vice versa.

Axe handle companies want to sell axe handles. Maybe for some companies breakage seems to be a good idea.

Dear Sir it is me again....do make axes....for sale ?

@SkillCult

4 жыл бұрын

I don't yet no. Maybe later....

Ah, so that's why my previous handle survived the (hopefully) last throes of noobility with green blood,,,, + excessive amounts of duct tape re-applied repeatedly, because there was lots of 'sickening cracks', and later slammings that tilted the head (which I simply slammed straight back in the same manner when noticed), and finally, punishing it beyond any comparable degree by trying to take multiple limbs at once. That arcing radius is intuitive, as it is ingrained, but the Spruce is typically straight, so more than a few limbs got broken by the handle (instead of head), until it got broken by the limbs. Now, I could of course excuse myself for having nooble blood, but I think the experimental discourse of #MoronicAxing is more communal these days. ,,, You're starting to look like a couch-stoner from my hometown that forgot to get high (but kept the clothing) before giving a lecture on practical physics... yes, it is a perplexing overlap of memories at play.

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

If you can use an axe with a really weakened eye for quite a while, that's a really good sign I'd say It often pays to stop, whittle the shoulder down a tad and jump it on a little further to pinch any breaks closed so the bottom of the eye is onto more solid wood.

@emlillthings7914

6 жыл бұрын

I considered it for a split second, but was too lazy to bother removing the duct tape, or shave, so predictably the butt was merely knocked extra hard on whatever, whenever it loosened. Good thing the head broke&fell rather gently, considering the swing was way over my head. But yes, I liked the axe from its very first swings, and I've realized that this axe is great. Not too sure about the new handle, but bought 2 (online) so I should have time to make my own handles by the time they both break. Btw; what's the deal with the 'say.it' link to misc.Thai p**n? You're trying to tell me I need to spice up my Coal-Pron series? :P

@SkillCult

6 жыл бұрын

Ha, that's funny. Accidental link.

stephen is just california varg

@SkillCult

5 жыл бұрын

Except without the stupid racist ideaology and not stuck in a juvenile phase of retarded personal development from being isolated for most of his life and with actual skills. Otherwise.. maybe or maybe not really ?