I have been reloading 3 years and was unsure of the whole excessive pressure sign deal. Great video, now I know what to look for.

You know it's a good video when it's being recommended 14 years after upload

Very very helpful. Many of the reloading videos don't get into these signs and assume you already know. Illustrating the subtle differences was very good info!

Thank you for another informative class in you academy of shooting safety and techniques! You are a great teacher!

Thank you for another informative class in your academy of shooting safety and techniques! You are a great teacher!

Thanks for all the information, it was very informative. I have heard of all of these warning signs but it is nice to see it with your own eyes while it is being described. I will watch out for these now.

A lot of people commenting about this are saying that flattened primers are caused by excessive headspace, and they are correct. But no one has that I have read has taken the time to explain why. So here goes. When a centre fire cartridge is fired there are actually a lot of different things happening, all within a few thousandths of a second. It starts when the firing pin strikes the primer cup. It not only dimples the primer and ignites the primer compound, but pushes the cartridge forward in the chamber, as far as the headspace will allow it to go. When the priming compound explodes. It propels burning gasses through the flash hole to ignite the propellant powder. But it also propels the primer cup violently out the back of the primer pocket, slamming it into the bolt face. The more headspace there is, the farther the primer cup can travel and the more velocity it will achieve before it slams into the bolt face. This causes the flattening of the primer cup and the cupping or cratering seen around the firing pin indentation. When the propellant powder charge ignites, three things happen. First the cartridge casing tries to explode, but the strength of the chamber walls stops this from happening. Second and Third are the projectile being pushed through the barrel, and the cartridge casing trying to be violently expelled out the rear of the chamber. When the casing slams into the bolt face it violently re-seats the primer cup in the primer pocket, further flattening it. I hope you were able to follow all that. What you want to be concerned about is if there is evidence of the brass being extruded into the ejector and or extractor recesses of the bolt face. This does not happen when the casing is slammed into the bolt face upon ignition, it happens while the projectile is traveling through the barrel, if peak pressures exceed the bearing capacity of the cartridge head.

@Silent_Shadow

7 жыл бұрын

David Oakley Fantastic explanation!

@howarddittrich157

3 жыл бұрын

Hello David, I’m the guy that pushed thumbs down. Did it because I think I see a problem with part of your explanation. Figured I would point out my concern to allow you the opportunity to correct my error with a further explanation. Thanks in advance. Here we go, you say “It starts when the firing pin strikes the primer cup. It not only dimples the primer and ignites the primer compound, but pushes the cartridge forward in the chamber,...” It is the “pushes the cartridge forward” part that I’m unsure about. As I see it, when I place a properly sized cartridge in my bolt action rifle I generate a substantial amount of force pushing the cartridge into the chamber and then locking the bolt lugs. The force is more than adequate to force the shoulder of the cartridge against the shoulder of the chamber. Additionally, that force is greater than the force generated by the firing pin, add to that that much of the force generated by the firing pin is absorbed by the dimpling of the primer. All of this is based on the premise that the cartridge is properly sized to the chamber and that the definition of properly size means that the bolt, when closed, does not allow for a gap between the cartridge rim and the bolt face or the cartridge shoulder and the chamber shoulder, and that is not a given.

Thank you for providing signs of case failure when reloading. I have seen some of the signs in your examples but not all. Eye opening information! 😳

One additional sign to watch for is the extrusion of the primer around the firing pin hole. A ridge around the primer indentation that protrudes from the flattened face of the primer is definitely a sign telling you to reduce your powder charge a bit. Thanks for the video!

@ammosmith

2 жыл бұрын

You're absolutely right. When the primer looks cratered it's a bad sign.

Very good and helpful tips here . Thank you for taking the time to make it 🙏🏽

An excellent tutorial. I once got excessively hard bolt lift, flattened and cratered primers, and a blown primer with some Barnes X-Bullet loads years ago. It was then that I discovered that the first generation of the X-Bullet (the non-Triple Shock ones without the grooves cut into the shank) can't be safely loaded with the same maximum charge of powder as with conventional bullets. I backed off two grains, and everything was okay again.

Flattened primers can also be caused by forcing primers into crimped cases.

Very good common sense video and a reasonable starting point for those new to reloading. The importance of having spotlessly clean, uniform brass can't be overstated. A case that is close to the overall maximum length can stretch causing difficult extraction without having excess pressure. Reloading is and artful skill, it's best to take baby steps. I'd never let anyone shoot my reloads in their rifle, they are safe in mine only. That's why we reload, to custom build a round to fit.

Great video for beginners like myself. Thanks for taking time to make this.

Very useful information on pressure issues and what to look for. Thanks

I still love to learn more about the gun, I knew about the flat primer, but didn't know it actually made a flange! GOOD JOB, NICE VIDEO!

Ammosmith Thanks for sharing your experience.

Thanks for the informative video, your kind and gentle manner and the info you gave us. I had some loads that I never really bothered trying to understand. I just looked at the max load in an old Speer book that I had for an Interarms 7x57mm that I've shot for years. Well, I can attest that powders do change. I mean, enough to make a toasty load from days gone by to something that is super excessive. I was using some old IMR 4350 in this thing and had actually worked it up to 50 grains. It was on the edge of "Too Hot". Eventually, I ran out of that powder and bought the new IMR 4350. Well, the newer powder, from the last 2 or 3 years with the same charge has my case heads coming apart. I've got one jammed in there right now that I will have to pour hot lead down the bore to create a plug so I can pull it out. Talk about excessive. I mean, I kept noticing the ring around the brass and how some were cracking along the incipit line you mentioned. I took some of the loads apart this morning, thinking maybe my measure was off. It wasn't. There was 50 grains in each that I disassembled. I was wondering why I was getting 3000 FPS for a 139 grain bullet, near what you'd get with a 280 Remington. Most of the other books show a charge of 48 as max. I'm backing them off to that charge. I'm done chasing the max velocity out of my guns. I'll take the accuracy over the speed any day. Thanks again

Here's a big attaboy from me, ammosmith! This was very informative, especially the loose primer pocket test. I'm reloading among other stuff the .35 Remington for my 2 Marlin 336s. Your info will help me make safe loads. Thanx a bunch

@Sarthur84

10 жыл бұрын

Keep a close eye on you headspacing with the round. The shoulder is non-existent on the round, and can easily be bumped back too much. The main issue you may have are misfires. The round will simply be pushed forward and the primer is not engaged. Even though it is a lever action round, neck sizing is the best thing you can do to help yourself out here. Try to do the minimal amount of resizing to the brass that you can to get them to work in the gun. I have had some guns that would not shoot certain brands of brass at all. My long gone contender would not shoot NEW Winchester (W-W) brass. My current 336, has a slightly better chamber, but does not like FL sized brass. I have my sizer turned up one whole turn, to minimize the shoulder contact.

Excellent video. Very well done, sir.

A stiff bolt lift is almost always a sign of there being a problem somewhere. I've never dealt with one so it always slips my mind. Under-pressure brass will eject just like normal brass from a bolt action, and probably all other manual action types. Very informative video, you can never be too careful.

Good info, thanks for taking the time.

New to reloading and this was AWESOME INFO

Excellent presentation thank you. I learned a lot.

Thanks for the great video. Amazingly informative.

really informative thank you for taking the time to make this vid.

Going to watch all of these. Thank you

Excellent video!

Great video l will note these points down being new to reloading l need a person like u that knows what they are doing thanks

A good quick review. Thank you.

Excellent video! Thanks

Yes. The dent will iron out partially in resizing and when it's fored it will fore form out all together.

Great video, thanks for the pointers

Thank you sir. Helped me out a lot!

Saving video. Good info. I’ve been reloading almost a year now. I know picking 2020 to start reloading was a bad idea.

very nice job. thanks for the info

Excellent. Thanks for posting.

All round good info. Thanks

The paper clip test is where you make a 'hook" and drag it over the inside of the case where the web is. If you 'feel' a dip there is area that is thinning and will eventually cause a separation. The paper clip allows you to inspect the area where you can't see.

Thanks for the lesson.

Lots of opinions in comments. I suggest those commentators who only load one or 2 cartridges be readers only. I found much of what you said correct. I have loaded 30-06, 25-06, 44 mag, 45 colt, 45 acp 38, 223 , and .22 hornet. The last seemingly being the softest case metal, and the case most likely to have issues. Soon I will be loading the 450 bushmaster. Thank you for your insight.

@miravox It's the hot gases igniting in the air. It's very comon with certain types of powder. Even low end loads can seem to boom as much as a maximum load.

Sweet! Thanks, I know now what to look for.

Good info. Thanks for sharing this.

Very informative!! Thank you very much!!

Very good info. Thanks

very well done sir!

Good informative vid. Thanks.

subscribed great info thanks stuff I haven't seen a lot of at least not so thorough thanks again

Went to a local range a few weeks ago to try out my new Bushmaster carbine. In addition to numerous failures to eject, I noticed three loose primer cups out of the 40 rounds fired. Took it to a friend's place and shot 100 rounds of factory ammo, and had no issues. I'll not be going to that range again.

Very nice video, great quality and good safety advise for new reloaders. Have you noticed that most of the new Hornady ammunition is being loaded to hot. I am seeing once fired brass from Hornady with high presure signs on the primers. It seems that they are selling there ammo with "MAX" Fps as a good thing. Again, great presentation. Steve @ BXCustmAmmo.

Thank you,, nice informative vid you got here.

I had a stiff bolt lift too. Pressure is a strange animal. A cratered but not flattened primer is also a sign of pressure. Once you realize what your rifle does you can start to determine "what" and where the pressure is coming from.

@trickykwoo2 They are one of several indicators. Flattened primers are a warning sign...two or more signs together means you're above SAAMI spec pressure

Thanks for the info. I'm reloading 9mm and couldn't find ANY primers anywhere, but finally was able to snatch up some small pistol in magnum. I just put a box together with 0.1gr less than the starting load (147gr FMJ & 3.3gr bullseye) and I'm assuming, hoping, praying my gun won't blow apart.

Really informative. thank you very much.

@rhikie24 The primer is one indicator but I use two indicators. Also if you're getting pressure signs with the Federal primer use the CCI. Federal primers are soft.

I just read this, but I have the same issue. When I use these primers, almost all of them flatten a bit, whereas Winchesters or something harder are just fine.

You can also get pressure signs in your primers if using very fine grain size powders. There has been guys test this with known safe, even lighter loads but if a little bit of this fine powder washes into the primer pocket void through the touch hole, the added gas volume in the very confined space will create pressure signatures in the primer cup with an otherwise safe load. Don't dismiss pressure signs as that without close investigation though.

Well stated Sir!

Thank you very informative.

VERY IMPORTANT.THANKS!

Good video, thank you.

Good video on pressure! :)

Good video for beginners in reloading! For some reason people that start reloading will not read a book but will listen to just about anybody with a press for advice. I have seen some unbelievable events at the rifle range. The only part I do not agree with is the case separation. Most of the time the case shown is a matter of reloading too many times and not high pressure.

An excellent instructional. You've answered many of my lingering questions about excessive pressure and I thank you. One point though from a videographer's perspective, for better detail on small objects it would be a good idea to use a contrasting background color. A sheet of printer paper is all it would take. Not s criticism just a suggestion.

@eddieloewen That's a oil dent from sizing.

Nice video. Thanks.

Good vid!! Stephen

@rifleshooter5 They should be fine. Just watch out for oversized primer pockets.

Nice video. Thank you

@xacharon No. What I did puts far less stress on the primer than the cartridge being battered in a semi automatic.

@ammosmith i dont have a tumbler so i use a vinegar solution for 10 mins then throw it in the washing machine for a rinse , not shiny like a tumbler with media but clean none the less

great Info..thanx man

Increase the charge by .5grs at a time. Once you start to see signs of pressure back off about.5 grs and you have your maximum load.

@madisonelectronic That rarely happens. Revolvers do go kaboom in a big way though.

Another good tip is to use an unfolded paper clip with a bend on one end and run it inside fired cases. Should be smoothe and not catch. If it does you have case head separation

@nmelkhunter1

7 жыл бұрын

Another good one.

@rifleshooter5 I see alot of match .308 that has flat primers. Almost all BHA is hotrodded and produces flat primers......no issues with loose pockets thou.

Great info. very important to know. thanks. question, is there ever a time where the primer will be lose not to over pressure just old brass? also how many times would a brass be reused?

It could be like my case several years ago; I just had a little too much headspace. I got a set of stepped shell holders in .002" increments. Either try that or just a different brand of shell holder. Also, check to see if your shellholder has any gunk built up in it. If so, clean it and check it after a few dozen rounds.

It usually happens when the case over expands and seizes the bolt. In extreme cases it can crack the locking lugs.

@TheCraigy83

4 жыл бұрын

you use air gun pressures . a 700ftlb air rifle requires a regulated burst of sub 1000psi , m193 will go +3000fps from a burst of sub 3000psi . Why would you think you get +50,000psi pressures ?

Thank you.

nice vid! thanks

Another difference between .223 and 5.56 is in the primers the way I understand it a .223 round loaded in a 5.56 can sometimes discharge from the bolt sliding home when chambering a round due to more sensitive primers.

funny, right after watching this i went to size and decap, and found a flattened primer

Flattened primers alone are signs of excessive pressure. However, flattened primers that have backed out a couple hundredths of an inch are signs of not having enough pressure. But if you were the one who fired those rounds, you'd most likely be tipped off by the accuracy as well.

@miravox You're using a slower burning powder.

@ammosmith Yeah, I was gonna say. I use winchester primers and even with light loads I still sometimes get flattened primers. Not FLAT, but flattening. I notice that with different brass, it will have higher likelihoods of flattening that others. I also have read online that winchester has pretty soft primers compared to cci's. Any opinions on the matter? These are small pistol in 9mm that I have issues with. But not with rifle calibers..

Very informative, thank you. I've been thinking about getting into reloading and have been looking and reading about it wherever I can find information. Still a long way to go. :) Quick question, though: isn't it a bit risky to tap the primer like that, or to press down on it with a cartridge?

I got a nasty surprise one summer. I was shhoting my 308 using WW748 powder. I developed it in February when it was cold. Well Winchester powders are very sensitive to teperature changes. The load was near max anyway. Well I sot a round and the bold froze. I blew out the primer and the case head flowed into the bbolt face. Last time I used 748 and switched to Hodgdon powders.

Nice

I had a blown primer in my AR from Hornady TAP ammo. I thought something was big time wrong with my rifle since it wouldn't chamber the next round. Till I picked up the brass and could see straight through it...

I've had primers back out in factory 6.5x55 in a Swedish Mauser, they were not backed out more than .008 of an inch but mushroomed out slightly, being an old round I think that there is not enough pressure for it to rebound back into the case and they are mushrooming on the face of the bolt but I could be wrong just looking for an opinion

Thanks

ive never had any signs of insipient case seperation. the primer pockets get loose first, but with a lee collet die i get appox 10 reloads before i have any problems, i can fire 3-4 times before i have to re-trim, and i run on the hotter side of things ;)

Thank you nice vid

in addition the primer at the right has a smaal crater like a ''vulcano'' this is usually related to a firing pin that is not lapped correctely to the firing pin hole and the primer start to creep into the opening on the side of the firing pin,, it ''can'' also be a beginning sign of too hig pressure or soft primers, this need to be determined in each individual case,,,

@gilream: good thought -- but why would my modest-velocity hand loads exhibit the muzzle blast when my full-speed factory ammo didn't? I used R-22 powder below manufacturer recommended max, got about 150 fps LESS than factory ammo.

It is not required to back off 2 or 3 grains because of a flattened primer. On some cartriges that would be below the min starting charge. You should work up loads in increments of 1/2 grain or less and when you get to a flat primer drop back 1/2 grain.

I haven't shot any Hornady factory ammo. The Federal 150gr FMJ in 308 is a bit warm.