Killing it with the excellent source material! I was especially impressed with how accurate the allied WWII sub kill claims turned out to be when compared to the German records.

It's amazing how quickly strategy, tactics and technology develop during a war . Your ability to access original documentation is always amazing especially considering the records still exist after such a long period. Your videos are the most accurate wartime videos on the internet.

@dukecraig2402

Жыл бұрын

It's amazing the amount of WW2 US military documentation that can be found online, every tree that wasn't used to make gun stocks during the war must have been cut down to make the mountains of paperwork from the military keeping so many meticulous records. Several years ago I learned of a family member who'd died in the war that was a navigator on a B24 crew, once I started researching him within hours I found the after action reports and the missing aircraft report for his B24 being shot down, I knew the names of everyone on the crew and could even tell you the serial numbers of every engine and every .50 cal defensive gun on the aircraft the day it happened, it's just amazing everything you can find.

@c123bthunderpig

Жыл бұрын

@@dukecraig2402 duke, now that is keeping records, serial numbers of guns and engines? Sounds like they have digitized the original documents. To think you were able to get closure on 10 men must have helped the family members. Thanks for sharing the story.

@dukecraig2402

Жыл бұрын

@@c123bthunderpig I was looking at actual photos or most likely scanned documents just like what he uses and shows in his videos for his source material. Yea the serial numbers for engine's and guns, I was absolutely astounded with what I was coming up with in such a short amount of time and on my phone at that, yea it's a smart phone but still, not too many years ago to get that kind of information I'd have had to go to some kind of government documents center, which I'll guarantee you wouldn't be anywhere close to my small town in Pa to get that kind of information. Three men survived the shoot down, the pilot and the two waist gunners with the pilot being the only one to survive the war with the other two dying in the German POW camps they were in. The most incredible part of the story is after the war the pilot went to college on the GI Bill and got a degree in aeronautics, he then got a job with NACA (later NASA) in Cleveland and was actually a part of the Apollo program and flew test flights with Neil Armstrong. One of his son's wound up a professor of synthetic materials at Akron University and was very excited when I got a hold of him because his dad and mom both had often spoken of my family member, he sent me a gold mine of information like copies of their mission logs and really great crew photos my family had never seen, and he gave me his mom's phone number and me and my mother got to talk to her about my mother's cousin, who was who got killed, that she never knew because she was a newborn when he went off to the war.

@dfirth224

6 ай бұрын

@@dukecraig2402This is all thanks to the internet. It would not have been possible 50 years ago.

@MarkSmith-js2pu

29 күн бұрын

@@dukecraig2402thanks for sharing

I love the documents about *how* tasks were accomplished more than the heroic stories

On July 20th, 1943 a B-24 Liberator from the 19th Anti-Submarine Squadron spotted U-558 floating on the surface of the Bay Of Biscay. The Liberator engaged the sub by dropping depth charges which missed, the sub unable to dive fired at the plane with its forward mounted deck gun. The flak from the deck gun struck the Liberator damaging it and causing the plane to leave the scene but not before radioing the sub's location other Allied aircraft. U-558 was sunk later that day by the combined efforts of another B-24 from the 19th and a Halifax bomber. The Liberator struck by fire from U-558 crashed somewhere in the Atlantic, its crew including my great uncle is still listed as MIA.

Great stuff as usual. This series has substantially improved my knowledge of how the battle of the Atlantic was fought between aircraft and U-boats.

Your name is Keith Mann and you also narrate the videos? Far out, what fantastic videos you put together... There is no one on KZread that has dealt with such subject matter. Absolutely brilliant research, the data you allow us access to (love it sir). Regards... A retired aircraft engineer from Australia. (Boeing was the King...until McDonnell infiltrated & ruined a great company)

I am AMAZED to see air drop sonobouys and MADs in WWII. I thought it was much, much newer.

@williamromine5715

Жыл бұрын

I totally agree. I had no idea they were used as early as 1942. Of course, they were improved greatly in later decades, but the submarines were at a great disadvantage as soon as the B24s came on line and escort carriers made their appearances. It is also interesting that sub sinkings were under estimated, whereas German fighter losses were over estimated by the allies. I do realize that the two types of battles were much different.

@dfirth224

6 ай бұрын

Keep in mind the WWII sonobouys and FIDO homing torpedoes used radios with vacuum tubes. The 48 volt batteries were good for about two hours.

Just fascinating. Would it be possible as an appendix to this to discuss how much effort, in terms of resources and manpower, was expended to actually gather all the information you source from. It must have been a staggering administrative endeavor. Thanks for the content.

@lordgarion514

Жыл бұрын

Now I'm kinda curious as to how much manpower and effort was put into getting and using that information during wartime. Cameras everywhere, film being shipped to and from. All the written documents. It must have been a staggering endeavor in its own right.

Friend of mine flew ASW in Nam era, was the weapons officer on a P-3, I believe. Interesting how much changed by then, but also what stayed the same. Be well, Master Chief...

@BeingFireRetardant

Жыл бұрын

@@kiereluurs1243 You knew exactly what I said...

During my 20+ years is the USN, my warfare speciality was ASW. I’ve logged over 4000 hours in P3’s. This video was very interesting. I especially didn’t know that sonobuoys dated back that far. I started flying at the end of the SSQ-1 and Q-20 era (A size buoys). The SSQ-41 (B size) was new and exciting stuff. Thanks for the info.

Great channel! Super happy to stumble on it this week. Been watching a lot.

Since the 50 caliber machine guns on the B-24s would not penetrate the hull of a U-boat, why was there no effort made to put a cannon on those planes that could have punctured the U-boat’s hull?

@donbrashsux

Жыл бұрын

👍

@Ripulintuoja

Жыл бұрын

RP-3 rockets could achieve the same thing, that's the most likely reason.

Great material. Really enjoy your videos. Keep up the great work!

Your info is incredible .. always great to watch these vids

Many thanks! This is a fascinating series!

Very interesting to compare what attackers thought they did versus what really occurred as born out by enemy documentation.

All things considered, being off by just 6% is kind of amazing.

To answer your moral dilemma question: I would prefer not to.

I wonder about the issue of firing on submariners who were on the deck of a submerged submarine that was badly damaged. Since there was continued improvement in heavy anti-aircraft armament from '39 - '44 (from a single 20mm cannon, to twin 20 mm cannons, to twin mount 20mms, the Vierling 4-mount 20mm array, and the 37mm cannon with various numbers of additional 20mm cannon), it would seem to me that if there was any indication that the sub crew was trying to reach or use deck guns, that should indicate the use of machine guns on an aircraft to suppress the anti-aircraft fire. Even if I were an aircraft commander and I only wanted to leave the immediate area, I'd prefer to know that the use of the sub's anti-aircraft armament had been suppressed as well as possible to assure time for a safe escape to beyond range of the sub's fire. (The 20mm cannon were reasonably effective out to about 800 - 900 meters, the Vierling quad-mounts a good bit further - because of the volume of lead that they'd put downrange - and the 37 mm about 1400 - 1500 meters.) I believe that tail gunners were briefed to watch for signs of anti-aircraft guns being brought into action and be prepared to suppress their use as an aircraft was leaving an attack area. So, I wouldn't say that it would necessarily be unfair or immoral to fire upon a sinking U-boat in all cases.

Hi, fascinating history on subjects many have never heard about. Please keep up the good work. Kind regards from Australia.

Great information, great presentation. Big thumbs up.

Thank you for your video.

The photo that is used for a U-Boat in distress is a photo of the USS Pillsbury's boarding party led by Ltjg Albert David onboard U-505 on June 4, 1944. One can clearly see Signalman Third Class E.G. Hohne sending a semaphore message on the bow of U-505.

Admiral Doenitz also admitted at Nuremberg that the airplane was the biggest threat to uboats…also of note was that the prosecution interrogated Admiral Doenitz as to why uboat s did not save ships crews but here this video also says why allied aircraft wouldn’t accept a uboat surrender.I find this fascinating!

@fernandofolgueira5191

Жыл бұрын

Your videos are very refreshing and excellent. Even more interesting for us book nerds we would really like links to your sources that have been declassified. I’m sure these would make for excellent reading!

I had no idea WW2 aircraft had sonobuoys and MAD gear, very cool.

Excellent video. Excellent use of primary sources! I have often wondered how realistic are the fictional portrayals of sub-hunters’ damage assessments in books and movies. This video provides a very good answer to my question!

The spinning device was shown in the film "Greyhound" with Tom Hanks, although obviously that was a little exaggerated for effect.

I think the difference between "sunk" and "probably sunk" ratios has more to deal with the theater of operation rather than nationality. Italian submarines were mostly sunk in the Mediterranean, often in shallow waters and very close to Allied air and sea operational bases (easy loitering, easily getting reinforcement, etc.). German subs were mostly sunk in Atlantic ocean, and Japanese in Pacific ocean, with increasingly difficulties in maintaining observation of attacks outcome. The comment about Italian sailors "easily surrendering" has no serious historical background and it's quite offensive for all those sailors who sacrificed their lives.

@paulmaxwell8851

Жыл бұрын

It WAS believed that Italian submarine crews were quick to surrender, based on actual experience. I don't think we should be concerned with the feelings of long-dead enemy combatants whose daily mission was to murder innocent people.

another great vid

Your logic at the end is not quite accurate. The total lost subs, is not the same as those reported sunk by action. To say we under reported sunk subs by 6% is not correct. What is correct is that Germany lost 6% more subs than we said we sank. Keep up the good work, your source material is great,

@charlesburgoyne-probyn6044

Жыл бұрын

Obviously there would be damaged ones sinking later and genuine accidents as well

awesome video

This channel has immediately consumed me, I've found a new fixation

Excellent 👍🇭🇲

Can't beat numbers.

3:12 Like tanks, a trained crew is worth as much as the equipment. More probably. If the sub/crew clearly isn’t surrendering they have to be considered to still be in the fight, and continued attacking is appropriate as attriting enemy equipment and personal is how one wins wars. Destroying equipment to prevent enemy use is continuing the fight.

@WWIIUSBombers >>> Great video...👍

I read of the remarkable feat of war but cannot find the reference again, if any can help please advise. Some British pilots using the Leigh light and radar to localize the submarine when they were in close proximity and to avoid early warning to the sub would turn their engines off, descend in the direction of the sub, and at a short distance and low elevation would turn the Leigh light on to spot the sub, restart their engines and make r their attack run, with success. Turning engines off over the mid Atlantic is a feat of courage, my hats off to them.

@dfirth224

6 ай бұрын

I also read about this many years ago. These were the Lockheed Hudson "Lend lease" bombers provided by the Americans.

3:17 no because why would you its already either sinking or scuttling beside be it battle damage or scuttling the important thing is its no longer out threatening the convoys

In this context, what does "gambit" mean?

@JohnSmith-yv6eq

Жыл бұрын

Strategy.... "the opening gambit"= the first actions taken to achieve a gaol....

A couple of floating lungs was usually a good sign of a kill

Bubbles and oil on the surface

They shot Polar Bears!

2,140 B24's Lend Leased to Britain plus 88 to Canada. page 2 Hyperwar Lend Lease shipments Army Air Forces

That Bomber seems to be a Junkers Ju 88 !

Sonubouys in 1943? Do tell.

@WWIIUSBombers

Жыл бұрын

I'll discuss the usage of Allied WWII Aircraft deployed Sonobuoys and MAD sensors in the next video.

@grizwoldphantasia5005

Жыл бұрын

Also had that Fido Mk 24 "mine" acoustic homing torpedo.

I'm not sure about this but if a submarine is sinking it is not an ethical choice to fire upon a crew attempting to escape and I personally wouldn't do it since it would be a war crime in my personal opinion. If they scuttle the submarine than so be it, since that is what I would attempt to do and if it is damaged to the point of sinking then it really doesn't matter, does it?

1941 (the movie) "I think we hit it, I saw it go down". Which would be category B, probably sunk. Fun fact (well fun for me anyways), in 1983 while I was in AIT training to be an air defense gunner at Ft Bliss Tx I was going through the US Army Air Defense Museum when I stepped around the corner and there was a towed single mount 40mm Bofor gun, after walking up to it I read a sign next to it stating that it was the very gun used in the movie 1941, the one that Dan Akroyd and his squad dropped of at Ned Beatty's house that he blew his house up with trying to sink the Japanese submarine. It said that it'd been located and fully restored to working order for the movie and that after filming was donated to the museum by Columbia Pictures. Being a fan of the movie it was pretty cool getting to see it.

World War 2 American Submarines please

Those poor Italians..lol.

for a excelent true story account of anti submarine warfare in Britain WW 2 check out Blackett's War by Bodiansky

awesome