Had scoring on my 996.2. Rebuilt it myself, very easy. Got new steel liners for cyl 4,5, 6. 3 new pistons and new rings all round. Cost app £3k for parts. Now done 20k miles in year since rebuild. Lot of car for the money.

@shaazy

Жыл бұрын

Where did you score these parts if I may? I'm on the verge of an engine out job on my 996 and wanna be prepared.

My favorite Porsche owners get their hands dirty and have more tools in the garage than a set of golf clubs. Awesome videos.

Just discovered your channel last week and have become addicted, I'm a mechanical engineer and I'm so impressed with your knowledge of porche engines and their problems . And on top of that you come across as such a nice guy, keep it up!

Nathan thank you…. Finally somebody telling the truth about these cars.

After owning a Porsche for two years I am completely numb to excessive service costs...

Thanks for being a realist. Good stuff, great content.

Very informative, thanks.

Love both of your channels.

I have had 9 or so w/c Porsches and have been lucky -always careful to warm up and not lean on them until t&p’s are good. They’ve all been weekenders sat around so not used that much though we all know that’s not necessarily a good thing. The original 3.2 engines had special head gaskets designed to balance the coolant flow temperature this was discarded in later models and cooling is generally agreed to play its part in bore scoring. Of course I may have had scoring and never known! Some early ones certainly produced a oil puff on start up after sitting around .

The best most honest on point humbled Porsche video on KZread! I want to buy one for a while now…just can’t make up mind due to this issues. Love the 997 C4S manual but I may skip to a 991 C2S instead !?

My Porsche only mechanic in Fairfax, VA said he has never seen a 98-99 996 with a scoring or D Chunk problem. Your Chanel is great and I appreciate you trying to educate everyone.

@ChrisLoew

6 ай бұрын

I know the shop, but more likely climate and commute time. Cold temps have it worse.

@pjay3028

2 ай бұрын

​@@ChrisLoewPorsche had to change the way they made the liners in 2000 because of environmental laws affecting the composition of the Lokasil used. This effectively degraded the integrity of the liners from 2000 onwards. So I'm not surprised the 98 to 99 cars aren't affected.

@reidthomas2686

21 күн бұрын

Which mech do you go to in Fairfax?

great video! does bore scoring affect 996.2 as much as 997 cars?

HI. Thanks for a great vid. 2 short comments based on my limited knowledge: (1) I think how the car has been driven does affect the degree of bore scoring. Driving in Granny mode until the oil is upto operating temp mitigates the degree of scoring as the piston and cylinder are better “matched” at this temp. (2) The Turbo engines of the 997 generation do not have bore scoring issues. Great channel! Love what you do!

@rodgraff1782

Жыл бұрын

Not true. Granny mode will not warm the car up quickly. Excess fuel is dumped to light the cats off, and this excess fuel is what causes most of the bore scoring. I’m not saying to rev beyond 3000, until it’s warm, but you want it to get up to temperature quickly, to get out of the enrichment mode asap.

Great video ! My 2005 997 Carerra S now passing 114000 miles (bought the car with 62000 miles on the odo) unopened engine, No issues ! OCI at 5000 miles, i do oil analysis after each OCI and it show allmost no wear metals Silisium and aluminium under 1 PPM, and values have been consistent in my 7 year ownership, even after hard use on track (what is bore scoring???) Upgrades: third radiator, low.temp. thermostat (a must have on these cars) IMS solution, RSS tarmac engine mounts, fabspeed exhaust, 200 cel race cats, autoblip, KW V3 and total powerflex bushing upgrade

@Alex-fe5fz

3 ай бұрын

Note scoring is basically deep scratches in the piston walls

@TheBestWanted112

2 ай бұрын

Did the powerflexes made a huge difference? In what way?

@997GURU

2 ай бұрын

@@TheBestWanted112 Huge improvement in handling in my opinion, the oem rubber had started to deteriorate

Great video.

FWIW, I use Lucas fuel additive at 150:1 to lube the upper cylinder believing it will help the rings slip against the bore, think two-stroke effect. I'm not so much a fan of Lucas. It could be MMO, or even a TCW3 2-stroke oil, just something to take the sting away from today's E10 fuel which is not a lubricant. During my 7k miles of ownership I have zero oil burn, zero smoke and no scoring looking through the plug holes. Certainly not conclusive and I will likely never know if it prevents scoring as it is only theory for about a penny per mile.

Thanks for this video! 1. Are the non-“S” 997 engines less susceptible? 2. Would you recommend finding a 996 over a 997? 3. What’s the best way to determine whether a 100k car may have borescoring, short of a borescope analysis? Is it to look for plumes of smoke, oil smell or leaks, or something else (ticking noises)?

Bore scoring can happen , The vast majority of these cars will NOT get bore scoring and there are many high mileage examples out there. The numbers appear to be high due to the large number of cars & suv's made and internet hysteria. I have owned at least 50 cars and motorcycles with Lokasil bores over the years and only 1 dirt bike suffered a failure due to scoring. Yes millions of motorcycles also have Lokasil liners .... Love the channel !!

@dsmprospect

Жыл бұрын

@Space_114 V but the unfortunate truth of the internet is doom scrolling is a thing. As always doom and gloom sell and attract views. When I was at the track recently I saw a a fellow 996 Carrera owner. I was a new owner at the time and I had to know what he had done to make it reliable. The answer: stop looking for opinions online and drive. He and his wife always tracked the car, in fact it had more track miles than street miles. Pay attention to things that contribute to their failure: mainly AOS health, a pre purchase bore scope, injector health and swap the IMS if it keeps you up at night. Edit: same regarding motorcycles! I bought this generation R1, which was considered unreliable due to transmission issues. Yamaha recalled them and resale values suffered. I capitalized on that. Now one of the bigger engine rebuilders for years has been saying they suffer from crank flex. That's terrified friends of mine and one sold his. I've never met another with this issue.

@brenyz5013

5 ай бұрын

I have owned seven 911s put high mileage on all of them never had a problem 👍

The engine in my 08 Cayman S Sport had bore scoring. Had it rebuilt starting in Jun '21 - May '22. Cost me $28K when I got done with the rebuild and the "while you're in there's". But I wanted to keep my CSS and you're not facing a lot of good options. This made the most sense for me. Now I have an engine that's addressed all of the Porsche problems plus 75 more HP.

@DANNY40379

Жыл бұрын

what other problems? like the IMS bearing?

@terrylessmann2274

Жыл бұрын

@@DANNY40379 Weak rod bolts is the biggie from the factory, IMS has been replaced, and better rods and pistons. The rod bolts stretch when you stay in the upper end of the rpm range. When they stretch, the bearings slip.

@dsmprospect

Жыл бұрын

Terry, and now you have a car that will appreciate. And on top of that it's a car you love.

@Zanzabar5

9 ай бұрын

Must feel great to have a fresh power plant on a great year car.

@terrylessmann2274

9 ай бұрын

@@Zanzabar5 yeah, selling when she was down was not an option. I'm glad to have better coated cyls. I drive her in the winter and some of those trips are short, which is hard on factory cyl coating. Don't have to worry about that now.

You mentioned in the video that there are less expensive shops that can perform resleeving service. Any specific recommendations? I've got a blown m97.21 from 2008 cayman s that will need resleeving.

I agree that the vast majority of 3.4, 3.6 and 3.8 cars get scoring, but it's not a coating they put on the liners. The liners are made entirely of the Lokasil material, which is aluminium with silicon "infused" into it.

Thank You 🎉

After spending 15K on a rebuild, I sold it for a loss of 16K. Ridiculously expensive car to maintain. So glad I sold it.

@johnlexus1

Жыл бұрын

The videos I watch on 911 sell me the dream of owning one. Arent they worth driving?

@K1dPhresh1

Жыл бұрын

@@johnlexus1 they are worth owning but you have to define “worth” for your situation. I agree with Nathan, most 997.1s have some degree of bore scoring. And once it starts, the only remedy is a rebuild. And like he said, that can easily be $20K. For me, mine is a keeper. So I’m already squirreling away money for the rebuild. Do your research and chase one that is less prone, like the 997.2. But, the prices are reflective of that as well. Compare 911 prices between MY 2005-2008 and 2009-2011. You pay a premium for the newer ones. But with the older ones, you’re going to pay difference when you have to rebuild, or lose money like the guy above.

07 987s with almost 80k miles and no issues whatsoever. No smoke, no oil smell. Car has been flawless so far.

@dsmprospect

Жыл бұрын

I have the "guaranteed" bore score situation of a 996 with 30k miles and I have 0 bore score. Sent images to LN and they agreed. I think a lot of bore scoring comes from injectors that puddle fuel into the cylinders and that fuel sits in the cyl eating away the protective layer of oil and you get dry starts. Additionally, collectors that think they're doing the car a solid by driving it around the block or just warming it up are spending a long time with the fuel system on full enrichment to light off the cats for emissions. This leaves excess fuel in the car. I went through all the known issues with a misfire on my car to find it qas clogged injectors. Not coil packs, not IMS bearing, not knock sensors, or plugs. All that was a waste of time and money. Same with a friend's Boxster.

@mikedodd9294

Жыл бұрын

they all have a little oil burning to them. But MIST is a whole other animal.

@Steve-jq4st

Жыл бұрын

My 2007 987s has over 130000 k’s and goes fine but I am a bit worried especially by the 90% figure.

@bullfrogzbodyshop

Жыл бұрын

Base caymans dont get scoring

Is the 2.7 and 2.9 engine in the 987.1 and 987.2 generations subject to bore scoring too?

not sure about the percentage but definitely a silent killer. I am dealing with mine and to this date it has no symptom and only the scoping revealed the issue.

That was very informative! Thanks. I have a 987 Boxster S with a 3.2 liter engine. I'm not sure if it's sensitive to bore scoring but it does sound like it has lifter noise. It doesn't burn oil though. Not sure if I should have it checked for scoring or if there is another explanation for the lifter like noise? I'm afraid to put much money in it until I get this issue settled.

@marceltaus8010

Жыл бұрын

Look at the Video from Flat 6 Solutions he has made a Great how to Spot tutorial.

@koolaid117

Жыл бұрын

@@marceltaus8010 Is that a youtube channel. I can't find that video.

@marceltaus8010

Жыл бұрын

@@koolaid117 kzread.info/dash/bejne/Yo6GuKeKYbbbebg.html Its Awesome. And very Precise.

@mikedodd9294

Жыл бұрын

switch your oil to DRIVEN DT-40, after 1,000 miles that lifter noise was gone in my 987 Cayman with 3.4 engine

@collintan7858

10 ай бұрын

2.5, 2.7 and 3.2 engines uses cast piston which are less likely to see bore scoring.

i am looking at a 718 Cayman, have you had much experience with them?

@NathansPorscheWorkshop / anyone. New paranoid 997.1 owner - as I understand it you are saying there is a high chance that many 997.1 in particular will have SOME level of bore scoring, but there are different levels. Thus you may have 'light' bore scoring in which case the car isn't using much oil OR the more serious scenario whereby one or more cylinders could be heavily scored, in which case the car will consume oil at a higher rate (which may or may not be visible from exhaust depending on whether your exhaust is 'catching' the burning oil.) Is this broadly accurate in which case the best sign to look for is high oil consumption? TIA

Flat6 innovations has a 12 part series on bore scoring…it effects M96 & M97 engines

hey man I saw your video and im interest on a 987 3.4 S and im really afraid of this bore scoring maybe should I pass? Not buy the porsche?

Anyone have experience with the 981 2.7 or 3.4 s around 2014 years on wards ? Looking at 30k miles but if the engine is a problem I might shop elsewhere 😢

This channel has changed my mind on Porsche ownership. I’m back to looking at Miata’s and Gr86’s, I just want to drive and enjoy, not buy a car lift and 5 grand in tools 😂

@DonBMW

Жыл бұрын

Definitely! Im sticking w my Hondas and BMWs. Other stuff may plague them, but nothing crazy like this. I can. Get Honda and BmW engine rebuilds for $5k all day. $30k for a Porsche engine rebuild is nuts!

@robbelliii

11 ай бұрын

@@DonBMWgive me a break have owned three BMWs…they are the worst for expensive costs

@DonBMW

11 ай бұрын

@@robbelliii I have only the top tier M BMW models from the 90’s and an E46 M3 Competition. I do all the work and the cars and engines (S52 and S54) are bulletproof plus it helps that they are worth significantly more than what I paid for them. Newer BMW’s are a real problem (E46 base, X5M, Twin Turbos, etc). But my point still stands. I can replace the classic BMW engine such as the S52 for $6k and an S54 for $10k. It sure beats a Porsche rebuild at $35k!!

Do the 997.2 cars have the same problem?

What do you have against a 986 ? The 986 is a great car.

I would really like to see some hard numbers to back up a claim of 90%. Maybe qualify that with mileage/time on the engine. Like, "This engine will fail." is true, but.........

@dsmprospect

Жыл бұрын

Agreed, if you shop used motors with guaranteed compression from engine suppliers, you'll find a ton of them with 150 to 200k miles.

@DonBMW

Жыл бұрын

All the hard numbers you need will come from your wallet. He’s not saying dont buy a Porsche. Jjst saying that its almost guaranteed you will have that issue. Go check out the horror stories on Rennlist. Great nimbers there.

@sticky70

Жыл бұрын

@@DonBMWhardly what you’d call an educated perspective on things is it? “Look at the forums “, you’ll only ever hear the horror stories there, no one has ever gone on those things and written about how brilliant the car is as they are to busy enjoying it rather than reading horror stories of around 5% of cars in total and not the 90% as indicated here.

@DonBMW

Жыл бұрын

@@sticky70 No argument w you there. But for me and my wallet that risk is too high. My S2000 is a blast to drive and if i blow the engine, im back on the road for $6k even steven! Porsche, i would be out $35k and no car for months. If i buy a Porsche, i will buy some awesome insurance to cover the engine. But either way, the 997.1 are priced at a discount to account for an engine replacement. Dont need opinions for that. Thats a fact. Try getting a 997.2 at the price of a 997.1. Not going to happen.

Just coming out the other side of resleeving and paying all the money that Nathan talks about, it is all true. Car runs great now though :-)

@DonBMW

Жыл бұрын

Care to share ballpark estimates. I got quoted $25k for a crate engine for a 997.1. No labor or upgrades.

Where are you getting a re sleeve for 2k

all the narratives i've heard is that bore scoring was a big problem, but happened rarely. I've heard this from multiple different sources on KZread. Why has this been the story if it's not true?

@user-qn6yt3zx3w

Жыл бұрын

Because most people aren’t even aware of it, for the reasons he states in the video (cat etc)

@wristygymnast1384

Жыл бұрын

@@user-qn6yt3zx3w the cats etc don’t cover it forever. It’s been well over 10 years. At best, if the cats were the cover, you’d expect a ‘cat blocking’ pandemic where owners were having to replace them regularly, no?

@mikedodd9294

Жыл бұрын

@@wristygymnast1384 if you buy an abused or neglected Porsche you could have a money pit. Buy one properly maintained and not tracked and it will go 200k.

The M96 had a different composition Lokasil sleeve cast into the cylinder case and the piston skirts had a ferrite coating. Due to government regulation the M97 had a less durable coating on the piston skirts and the new Lokasil sleeves destroyed the piston coating and then the sleeves. In some ways the M96 5 chain was better than the M97 3 chain engine.

@lareau6

Жыл бұрын

how about the m96 3 chain?

@warrenlucier5796

Жыл бұрын

@@lareau6 3 chain would be a 996.2 and may be affected like 997.1 & 997.2 due to the liner composition & piston skirt coating.

According to this, just about every 997.1 would have bore scoring. Why, then, do so many owners say they don't have any issues? It can't happen to all of them. How is that explained?

Nathan: I have a bore scored Cayman S. Do you know anyone who can repair the cylinders (other than the expensive "nickies" guys)? There are a few of us who do our own repairs. thanks! John in Oklahoma.

@dsmprospect

Жыл бұрын

John, look into a used engine. I've seen used 3.2s for 5k.

Per usual with any luxury car, the adage holds true: "If you can't afford to buy it new, you can't afford to own it used". Had an '03 M5 I got with 80k miles on it for $17,000. Cheap to buy. But when ANYTHING broke on it, didn't matter how small, it was $1,000 repair minimum and a 2-3 week wait for parts to show up. The car only cost $17k, but parts cost MSRP and MSRP was a $100k car

I can see more people opting for a full rebuild as these cars get more valuable. They made a ton of 9X7’s, but then again a ton of 9X7’s have nuked themselves over the years as well. As supply dwindles, popularity increases along with value, and people will take care of them more as they do with the air cooled models. 993 owners have had 2, even 3 rebuilds and nobody bats an eye. If anything a rebuild increases the value on those as long as you keep all your receipts and take it to a reputable shop.

I read that the bore scoring is caused by leaking injectors that pool gasoline in the cylinders after shutting off the engine. This rinses away the oil coating so there is no lube immediately on startup and the damage compounds. Replace injectors as regular maintenance. Is this true?

@user-qn6yt3zx3w

Жыл бұрын

Cold enrichment dumps excess fuel into the cylinders anyway, and that washes the bores down. Hence don’t let it sit and idle after a cold start, best to drive the car after so it warms up faster and enrichment turns off.

@dsmprospect

Жыл бұрын

I don't think regularly replacing them is needed at all. The car will misfire when these injectors start to stick open. An annual scan of the ECU is more than sufficient. You cam also send in an oil analysis for about 20 bucks each oil change to make sure your intervals are good. The injectors can be sent to a service that will clean them and send you back a report.

@avinii

Жыл бұрын

@@user-qn6yt3zx3w Has someone ever tried reprograming the enriched stage on cold start?

@user-qn6yt3zx3w

Жыл бұрын

@@avinii I don't know, but it must be easy to do as it's just an ECU mode. Personally, I would love to disable it completely on my car, as it's only a summer car and I really would like to let idle a bit to warm up.

@mikedodd9294

Жыл бұрын

@@user-qn6yt3zx3w trick a temp sensor somewhere to tell the car its already at operating temp to avoid the cat warmup mode

Where do you take it for less than $2000 for the service?

Does the GT3s and turbos have the same coating? I always heard 996 GT3s had a much superior engine.

@davidcooper3871

Жыл бұрын

No issues. Different engine.

@PBradz

Жыл бұрын

Mezger engine has nikasil coating which is much more durable than lokasil…

Do the turbos also have bore scoring issues?

@davidcooper3871

Жыл бұрын

None ever reported. I have 4 of them.

sounds like a nightmare. dunno if thats worth it to fix and then just to get it again and again

Bore scoring is rare on the 9A1 engine. And it will occur if you commonly get on the throttle when the engine is below blue line. Which is of course true of any engine.....

@user-qn6yt3zx3w

Жыл бұрын

I looked at four 9A1 engines cars for sale (for a friend), three had a nasty ticking at idle. Same dam ticking noise as my 997, which is getting a rebuild right now, for you guessed it.

@mikedodd9294

Жыл бұрын

@@user-qn6yt3zx3w the oil used greatly impacts the ticking. Mobil 1 0W-40 was the worst, seemed thinner than olive oil, and prolly just as effective. 5W-40 quieted it down.

@warrenlucier5796

Жыл бұрын

@@user-qn6yt3zx3w What you are hearing is the direct injection. These engines can score the bores if if cold and pressed on really hard, so you drive rather easy until warmup is completed.

@user-qn6yt3zx3w

Жыл бұрын

@@warrenlucier5796 yeh right. Listen to my 997 here, it’s not the sound of direct injection. kzread.info/dash/bejne/pmF5u7mKhKS4mpc.html

Why does it happen, is it lack of oil pressure? or someone mentioned that too many short journeys ie running too rich and washing the bore or a leaking injector, oil changes, diluted oil etc? If it was a two stroke it would indicate lack of oil/too lean/too hot. If we could figure out what is the main cause it would be great. Has anyone run a good engine on a test bed to simulate normal running?

@pulaskicondoassociation6799

Жыл бұрын

They are just junk

@johnmccarthy1048

Жыл бұрын

@@pulaskicondoassociation6799 I would say your comment is a bit harsh and don't blame you if you were caught with one. They are fixable but I'd still like to know why they score in the first place and if is the material (and other theories) but no one is that sure, furthermore Porsche should be a the forefront of this investigation and will to help owners. Shame on them. They do sound great and the principal of the style of engine, (VW beetle, subaru, BMW boxer, Alfa etc low centre of gravity etc is all well proven.

Is it true the m97 2.7 is free from any bore scoring?? 07,08 987 2.7

@terrylessmann2274

Жыл бұрын

No engine is free of BS, but base engines have a lower % chc vs the S. Lots of speculation why, but there is still a chc a base engine can get BS.

@vincentlong8773

Жыл бұрын

That's the rumour. Also no IMS issues too apparently. I pray it's true, because I own a 2.7 with 88k on it. No oil usage issues.

The idea that 996s do not have widespread bore scoring issues is simply not true. LOTS of M96s have bore scoring issues, particularly ones that spent any time in northern climates. The reason? People let them idle too long when warming them up and the rich mixture on startup washes away the oil coating on the sides of the cylinder walls. Once that oil coating is washed away, the rings start eating away at the Lokasil coating. Proper warmup is letting the engine run for 30 seconds and then start driving GENTLY and do not get the revs over 3K until the engine is warmed up. As for showing scoring at the tops of the cylinders? That only happens when the scoring has become significant. Scoring ALWAYS starts at the bottoms of the cylinders; that is why you pay for a PPI that runs a scope up into the cylinders from the BOTTOM to check for scoring. Cars that have never been in a cold climate are far less likely to have bore scoring. However, if someone runs an M96 hard without properly warming them up, they will score it even in a warmer climate. The 997.1 series, particularly the 3.8L engines, were more susceptible to scoring. However, they issue was fixed in the 997.2 - they do not have scoring issues. If you are considering buying an M96 from one of the auctions sites like BAT or PCARMARKET and it does not have a bore scoring inspection from the bottom, you are taking a HUGE risk if you buy. Always get a PPI done that includes a bore inspection from the bottom. Will most likely cost you between $700-$900 to get it done, but well worth the spend...cheap insurance. I was looking at buying a 40AE car in CA that had it's engine replaced for IMS failure early in its life, and had spent some of its life up north. Inspection showed bore scoring and as well as about $8k worth of repairs and maintenance needed. Seller would only reduce price by $3K, so I walked. The car showed up at a dealer in outside of SF selling at a huge premium. Whoever bought it was going to be in for a very nasty surprise...even though the prices on 40AE cars have increased a bit, they were going to have $75K in the car once they had the engine rebuilt, which was probably about $30K more than they paid for it. The worst part? The seller sold it to the dealer in near SF KNOWING that the engine was scored.

my 987 made it to 125k before I sold it, didn't burn anymore oil or smoked then when I bought it at 60k miles. I disagree EVERY 100k 997 987 3.4 3.8 are bore scored. I did UOA every change and nothing. Although I switched oil brands after the first 2 oil changes did show wear. Wear went to nothing with a ZDDP oil.

Scoring starts at the bottom of the cylinder which can only be checked with a bore scope from through the sump with the piston at TDC. Listen to Jake Raby.

@christianglyde2696

Жыл бұрын

Doesn’t a compression test check do the job rather than the bore scope?

@rennpart

Жыл бұрын

@@christianglyde2696 This is a misconception, you can have good compression and scored bores. I'd recommend checking out the series on Bore Scoring PCA just released last week on youtube with LN Engineering. They do a good job explaining the process.

Beware of nein lives on eBay have 1700 miles on one of their rebuilds . Steel sleeves piston slap already.

So basically, porsches are junks. Thanks for this, very enlightening. I feel already trapped but could have been trapped deeper.

90% bore scoring?

Hey, I am considering a 996 what makes this engine so expensive to rebuild? I mean it’s head’s pistons a block❓

@dsmprospect

Жыл бұрын

All the components are expensive. And they never produced enough 911s to compare the cost of used parts to a GM truck engine or a Honda Civic motor.

@maxmeier532

Жыл бұрын

my take away is, it's mostly the labour if you're not doing it yourself. Pay a shop to work 50 hours, guess what, that's gonna cost you 10 grand plus parts.

Bore scoring...Bore scoring...Bore scoring...People please share what lubricates are being used in these Porsche engines. It would definitely be some important information to share!

Mine is a 987 2008 2.7 with 90k miles. Runs perfectly. I've not seen a 2.7 that has suffered from scoring thankfully.

@pappas1977

Жыл бұрын

+ 1 on this. I think the additional boring out of the cylinder for the 3.4 and higher, at the expense of coolant channel volume is the reason for that.

@SonicProvocateur

Жыл бұрын

I have an 08 2.7 with 94k miles and it's an absolute gem! Mine has a bit of a ticky lifter after this last 0w-40 oil change, but some LiquiMoly MoS2 should shoe it up.

3L of oil in 9000km in a 2004 996 3.6 X51. 5W40 mixed with 10W60

now How many of the 996 engines have you done? Next it will be something like you used the wrong-colored shop towel.

Does the bore scoring affect the 997.2 turbo?

Had a 987.1. Don't know for sure about the bore scoring, but it has all the issues you talked about. Laying down alot of soot, car always ran rich, AOS change didn't help. Sold to a dealer rather than private sale. Broke my heart, I loved that car.

Hello Nathan. I have a 1999 996 with 103k. I only hear a ticking when the engine is hot and it sounds like a lifter. No oil consumption or oil usage. I know you said 1999 3.4L is less likely. Any opinions?

Sir, Whilst I and many others certainly appreciate your KZread videos and your experiences, I will speak for a lot of us here. Am I missing something? You keep the narration just short of "where to send the cylinders for re-sleeving! " Where? Yes, you did go the the UK and mention some place there, and we all know about L&N here. But please, where else to go here in the States?? Why keep this secret? I keep listening and watching for the secret password or code. Heck, give this machine shop a free plug, whoever it is, and let's go with this! WHO? Thanx!

Haha yeah we're a special breed. Gonna have "the talk" with my mechanic and shop around for personal loans. Best to be prepared. But we didn't buy these cars as a financial decision :)

996.2 gets bore score not the 996.1 I had both

Hello. I'm new to your channel. May I suggest something? Looking directly at the camera is a very important part of shooting a good video.

Only Mezger's engines (Turbo) are bore scoring free, thanks to the Nikasil cylinders plate. Stay away from all the others.

I appreciate and love your content but the 90% figure you mention is exaggerated and misleading. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

@michaelcirino8773

Жыл бұрын

I believe what he was trying to say is that 90% of owners who have bore scoring issues don’t realize it because it is mild, at least to start. Not that 90% of cars have bore scoring.

@gandul1234

Жыл бұрын

Nope he said 90% of the cars out there have it. Assuming they have been driven. I just saw a 2019-911 T for sale. It has 5,000 miles only. Pretty sure the engine is ok with that many miles.

@rodgraff1782

Жыл бұрын

I agree. 90% is just not true. He immediately mis pronounces Porsche. I’d like to see evidence on his claim. I’ve never heard so many negative comments about our cars. Not one thing nice to say

Turbo's and GT3 no issues

8:26 👍🏼

💯❤️💯❤️💯❤️💯❤️

Hopefully I find a 997 with a bad engine for sale. I want to do a k24 turbo swap. Cheap and easy and RELIABLE with Lots of Power

Seems like a lack of maintenance or a design flaw if this happens qon 90% of the cars. I wonder how liable Porsche is since it happens so often.

I had a 08 Cayman S showing early bore scoring..It was showing no signs like oil consumption,smoking etc but the mechanic could tell by spark plug carbon buildup on certain cylinders. He suggested I sell it right away which I did or pay $30K for a new engine..The car had 50,000Kms on it. They are nothing more than expensive junk as far as I am concerned especially considering all the problems they have. (bore scoring,IMS failures,lifters and the list goes on)

@DIY-kh4no

Жыл бұрын

And you told the new owner about the problems?

@larrywilliams3858

11 ай бұрын

​@@DIY-kh4noWe will go with no!!!

Their is a reason why German cars where and are only worth less then a tenth of their original value. The people that usually afforded them sold them right after their warranty ran out to buy the newest. And most of the second/third owners deferred the maintenance.

@mikecruise6991

9 ай бұрын

That is so true🤔

if 90% of 997.1's have bore scoring I wonder why there is no class action lawsuit and why they are not basically worthless now.

unless you are wealthy, why would have any supercar after warranty, even little things are expensive !!!

Bore scoring is common on all 996 and 997s non- mezger engines.

This guy is on youtube, pretending that his feelings are facts. Happens a lot.

Lot of misinformation here. A puff of smoke on cold start does not mean you have scoring. Maintenance interval times, location of the car (cold climates), oil type and driver error definitely play a role. I have clients on original engines over 200k miles with zero scoring.

Not if you buy the 2.7

90% is a bold claim...

Wow, the lack of information is the problem. Everybody has an opinion, very few facts. Reality: this type of engine is notorious for multiple failure areas, 7 possible main causes for the kiss of death. Maybe a few more actually. The cylinders failing are just one of them. Here is the history: the first generation of these engines had a regular steel sleeve held in place in the casting mold, and the block would be cast around the sleeves, therefore "grabbing" the 6 sleeves. Problem, steel and aluminium expand at different rates (0.6 factor), so over heat cycles the steel sleeves got loose, and what's next... engine destruction. BTW they were just steel sleeves, no coating, no Nicasil, just regular steel sleeves. Don't get your underwear in a bundle: nothing fancy inside your soon-to-grenade engine. So soon they reverted back to what seemed to work well in the past: Locasil. Think 944 and 928. Aluminium casting with a controlled sand grain size mixed in the pour, producing a single monolithic block with cylinders included. The cylinders are then honed to size with a diamond cutter, then the acid treatment recedes the aluminium between the sand particles, creating a microscopic porous surface made of sand, which the rings and pistons ride on. Locasil means Localized Silica. There is no coating or plating, nada. It rides on sand particles. So this never wears, it's like having a ceramic surface. But it is very vulnerable to heat. So modern engines with higher HP generate more calories, hence vulnerability to heat. WE changed so many engines that my head is still spinning. Class action lawsuits. Value dropping. I have had customers that have had 3 engine replacements. I am the person who changed the first WC Porsche engine in North America. The car was 2 weeks old. And it never stopped after that.

@NathansPorscheWorkshop

Жыл бұрын

Ahh yes i have read the forums , alot of guys were swapping engines at the dealer but few take them apart and actually fix them, but not being able to trust a used engine or a dealer anymore is the issue, so 996 owners will be forced to fix them , i bet thousands of engines were mis diagnosed in the past and discarded, the ol slipped sleeve issue, have not seen that on porsche engines but on land rover yes , remember the worst porsche engine is still better than the best bmw engine, and i am a guy that would know that, always remember whenever you see a youtube video and and are quick to slap a rookie label on the creator, that things may not be what they seem 😂

Thank you to the German powertrain engineers for that less than durable cylinder coating technology. Plainly they tested this coating on the dyno for about 11 minutes before calling it good. Another case of the Germans just screwing their customers.

@davidcooper3871

Жыл бұрын

Supposition without fact…

@user-qn6yt3zx3w

Жыл бұрын

I’m sure they tested it thoroughly but concluded it was an issue that would occur outside the warranty period. Given that 80% of new Porsche buyers don’t keep their cars past the warranty period, it’s a non issue. Their regular customers just aren’t affected.

@davidcooper3871

Жыл бұрын

@@user-qn6yt3zx3w if you are “sure” let’s see the proof.

90% 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Or get a 997.2 and don’t worry about any of it…

@Unpredictable1819

5 ай бұрын

He said at the ending of the video that 997.2 and 991 also have it. Is this true regarding the 997.2? I'm looking to buy a 997 and I definitely would be worried about this issue

90% is a pure, uneducated guess, AT BEST. You shouldn’t throw those numbers out, without facts to back it up. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. Is there a problem with bore scoring? Yes. Is it vastly overstated? Also yes. Some good advice in this video, but some not so good.

@davidkaufman8951

Жыл бұрын

good points and i agree with you. I if you change oil often, allow the car to come up to temp before pushing the motor, no short trips, adding a 3rd rad and LTT, and using a fuel additive right before an oil change to clean the injectors this will minimize the risk. i think some of the unloved watercooled porsches were not well cared for and surely didn't help. Also the 9a1 engine has scoring issues too but does so in a slightly different way with cylinder 1 being the most likely site of failure. it's a great fun car and i enjoy my 997.1 which i scope the cylinders annually.

@maxmeier532

Жыл бұрын

funny how you dont even have anecdotal evidence let alone any official numbers, but argue against him. Self-awarness isnt your forte.

Darton sleeves with 2618 or 4032 pistons is the ultimate solution for this looser design

So many people in these comments are upset that a German sports car has high repair/ownership costs. That’s kind of what they’re known for. Fantastic driving experiences, amazing chassis to build to the next level, but insane costs. American sports cars are known for matching or exceeding performance levels at lower cost levels. JDM sports cars are known for reliability and performance but higher cost than American. These are generalities, but these are what most people expect going in. No one buys a Chevrolet and is surprised they have electrical problems or an interior made by Rubbermaid. No one buys a Ford and is surprised when it leaks oil. Buy a Porsche with $ set aside for a proper engine build. If you can barely afford to buy the car, then it’s a risky car to own. If you buy one and have to rebuild the engine, nbd if you already mentally prepared to spend the $, and you won’t be sad with a 4.0L flat 6 screaming at 8000rpm behind you. If you don’t have to rebuild the motor, nbd also, because even stock they are fantastic sports cars to drive.

Unfortunately, all Porsche engines (except Mezgher), from 2005 to 2020 will eventually score their bores - even the GT3’s (991.1 and 991.2).

Memo to self: NEVER buy a Porsche. (Good video, though!)

Makes you not want to buy a 911

Lesson of the day. Don’t buy a Porsche 911. Life is troublesome enough without that hassle

@rodgraff1782

Жыл бұрын

I have owned 6 911’s from years 1969-1999. I’ve been driving these cars for 33 years. No major problems on any of them.

Watch if your left exhaust pipe is becoming more black then the right, and always have to fill oil, you know it is a fact.