Its refreshing to see a company that has an understanding of thermodynamics.

Even having an understanding of this already, this was an incredible video. Very well done!

@bankspower

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the great compliments!

@rmp5s

Жыл бұрын

100%!!

@sc358.

Жыл бұрын

​@@bankspowergood stuff! Now hot rod the flow bench to get realistic pressure drops you'd see in an engine

@overbuiltautomotive1299

6 ай бұрын

welll were the new video at .i would love to build a flow bench thank you for pointing out this sensor as my thoughts on benches were well you said a lot better in video GOD BLESS MERRY CHRISTMAS @@bankspower

I wish there was a banks video every week

@jonellwanger7258

Жыл бұрын

Yeah. But this guy in the video needs to go. BRING BACK GALE!!

Using science and engineering to hack an inferior design and make it preform way better than it came from the factory makes for a very interesting video. MORE please.

We have a year's worth of video ideas lined up! But we want to know what you want to see. Comment below and we might just respond with a video.

@neelsvanniekerk1807

Жыл бұрын

When are you re-releasing the air pollution measurement video? That was great content even if the video mixing was not great.

@E.skrty.4

Жыл бұрын

How about a video explaining how a different turbocharger on the same engine at the same manifold pressure can result in different engine power outputs (given the manifold temperature, etc. is the same for both setups)?

@ValentineFarm

Жыл бұрын

All your videos please!!! 😊😊😊

@wudntulike2no32

Жыл бұрын

I've already seen the test but not on KZread. One that comes to mind is as the exhaust gasses travel through the pipe it is cooling since the pipe is absorbing the heat so you can make plenty of power with a smaller exhaust pipe towards the end while also making the car quieter.

@pixaim69

Жыл бұрын

A video explaining why the MAF is necessary in a static flow rate situation like the flow bench. There are quite a few comments questioning it.

I have always felt like my flow bench was a liar...you just proved me correct! And some people live and die by their flow numbers, this explains why they never beat us. Great vid!

I like Erik! Great presenter. Definitely have him do a bunch of videos, please.

@bankspower

Жыл бұрын

Will do!

@user-jd5sj8jx7r

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely agree! He is a natural at this.

Banks Power upsetting people is absolutely the best KZread series.

Who ever came up with that Popcorn analogy deserves a Nobel Prize! That is simple but make the point perfectly.

This was talked about on the podcast, it's really a great setup. Very cool 😎

@bankspower

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

I cant stop watching every video these guys make! I feel like a freakin genius after all I have learned. Bravo Gale for getting this information out to folks like me. Not a drop of energy or time wasted when it comes to making this content. I appreciate every second you have invested into this, Thank you.

@bankspower

8 ай бұрын

Glad you like them!

As per usual Banks continue to innovate and educate the masses. They have a genuine love for physics and thermodynamics. Keep up the great work and informative videos. :)

I really appreciate the time and money Banks spends to educate the public with these videos. Thank You!

Gear heads class has begun. Today's episode " research and development". Lets hotrod a flow bench to get the results we seek in more power.

Holy crap...thank you so much for sharing the nerdy details for this...amazing and greatly appreciated. More of this type of thing is greatly appreciated.

@bankspower

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Really good video. I like how you explained everything in detail before hitting us with the MAF sensor goodness we were expecting.

Another trip to Banks school!

Granted you're capable of reading the amount of air entering the components, but what about once it's gone through the intercooler. Then been compressed by the forced induction device, because that depends on several factors if my understanding of everything involved to actually reach the combustion chambers. First every connection has to be fully sealed against either a vacuum, or a positive pressure passing through it. This also includes the intercooler if one is used, but that still leaves a lot of mechanical connections, and then there's all the welds, and are seams in the tubing on both sides of the turbos, externally mounted blowers, and even blowers mounted directly onto the heads. There's a significant chance of leakage, and even with your testing setup this is highly possible Granted air is like water, and takes the path of least resistance, but that's still not a guarantee that's not an issue. From my years of hvac experience, in installing high pressure ductwork. The only absolute method of verification is to have a meter at the entrance of the associated ductwork, and after the all the connections through whatever is being tested to see if you're maintaining the same static pressure versus whatever your total volume of air exiting the ductwork. Otherwise you could very well have a sorce of entrance into your system, are a leak before you actually exit the device in this case. So the way your device is pressurized, are in the case if intake components your in a vacuum. So however many connections and openings for whatever device maybe there has to be sealed absolutely, otherwise you don't have an accurate reading for mass air sensor or anything else. You have a rough guesstimate at best, and I realize that this is taking it to the extreme, but based on the manor of which you're speaking, as well as the verbiage used. You're making it an absolute, that everything has been done to guarantee that this is the case, and unfortunately it's not. I'm sure it's a more accurate reading than most people are getting just because the use of the Maas airflow device, but then the devices connected on either side, or the mass airflow sensor itself isn't in a sealed connections either. So therefore you're not getting absolute accurate information yourselves. So not to be a PIA, but to make bold statements that ya'll are making to the public, which is part sales pitch, and some scientific proof of how ya'll have improved a method of testing. So take it to the absolute level of accuracy, and improve every connections inside and out of the flow bench as well as your method of connection to the testing device. Then tell us how you took these steps to ensure that your results are 100% accurate. Hopefully ya'll find this as positive input, and not someone being negative about what ya'll are I believe honestly trying to do to better your own data in research for your own products. That's how it's meant to be, and not just shooting holes into the steps you've taken to date.

Hi all at Banks. I'm no tuner, but have for many years believed that tuning was getting the most in and out with the least effort. It just takes people like you at Banks to work out how to measure what I believe. Love the videos.

I'm SO excited for the followup video to this! Great job, guys!

@bankspower

Жыл бұрын

Thank you, more to come!

@luckyPiston

7 ай бұрын

​@@bankspower Is there a part 2 ? cause i couldnt find it So question is will there ever be a part 2 ?

Thanks for the simple and through explanation.

Amazingly well produced.

Absolutely riveting information, for an "old School" diesel man. Keep up the great work. You have sent me back to the Physics Books.

The popcorn example was brilliant! I’ve long tried to find a good analogy for density vs temperature

Great video. Keeping it real with science. Love it. Very well done.

Well done Eric 👌excellent class , following in your grandfathers footsteps 👏

You guys are the best! I’ve been following Gale Banks for 60 years. I wish you were on the east coast!

This is epic!! Totally geeking out on this stuff! Thanks guys!! 😁🤟

Beautifully explained. Thanks Banks…

Very interesting and informative. I love the presentation. Thank you. I learned quite a bit today.

I was a USAF aircraft mechanic and as someone that went on to graduate college in '93 with a BS degree in Mechanical Engineering Technology and never used my degree, I love this shit 😁

Density efficiency, great information well presented. Thanks

What a fantastic video! Thank you!

These vids are so informative. love it.

Very good explanations

This is an exceptionally well conceived and executed video.

These videos are Always educational & interesting. Thank you.

@bankspower

11 ай бұрын

Glad you think so! Thank you for watching.

I love free knowledge!! I can't imagine how many months I would've spent learning this using books 🤔🤔 thanks for the info!

This video was very great. Keep up the good work on science please keep these videos coming.

This is pure gold for a lot of people to get an actually understanding of how good MAF systems are these days and the problems with many ways of acquiring various forms of data has been in the past. For example if talking about tuning you can see the whole flow behavior of the engine and in relation to all other temperature and pressure data when the setup is starting to experience to choking and other forms of inefficiencies. On a MAP based system you basically have no idea, because you base everything on mostly assumptions and dont know what is actually happening flow wise with the engine with every adjustment.

Awesome explanation thank you all!

Very educational,thankyou for taking time to explain 👍

@bankspower

Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Great info!! Thank you!!!

Everything Banks touchs... turns to Gold.

Great video thank you , you did a awesome job explaining that thank you

Back in 1993 my old school hotrodder auto shop teacher built a flow bench powered by a 5hp vacuum from the sawdust collection system out of his brothers old cabinet shop. While not the same as a commercial bench, it was great for comparing flow at different valve lifts or seeing the before and after results of porting. Even then he lamented not knowing enough about computers, and there were no off the shelf solutions, to integrate a MAF into the system so the idea itself isn't all that new.

Fantastic video!

@bankspower

Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much!

Great , entertaining, educational and informative. Impressive Gale

@bankspower

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Time for the everyone to get some learnin’ Banks101 is back in session!

Great show. I love the analogy. By the why can't you use a variable iris similar to a camera instead of known plate hole cross-section(perhaps a little stronger), this would also give you adjustments on the fly (adaptive while Woking) this might increase acuity and some degree of automation if the control gear allows it.

@milescarter7803

Жыл бұрын

I wanted to know why they didn't just use the plates in the bench instead of a variable orifice. Probably because Bosch makes inexpensive and accurate sensors that just measure the MAF directly. Next up, measuring the parts across their use range to find parts that only give up 2-5% at the top end and have 10-20% more power in the midrange. More area 'under the curve' means more usable daily power. (See 1980's VW vs Honda. VW was more torquey around town, even if the Honda had more peak power. An inexperienced driver would be quicker in the VW. Now with variable cams in the 90s Honda got back the midrange and in the early 2000s had way more low end torque)

You guys are out here doing God's work. Truth!

Nicely explained. Though flow benches have been around well over 50 years. Grey Ross had one running at Coventry climax by the late 50's, Ricardo and Westlake many years previously

@MrTheHillfolk

Жыл бұрын

Pops had an article from something like popular science to build a flow bench at home. I do recall items needed were like 10-15 vacuum motors. We do have an inches of water gauge used to calibrate magnahelic gauges ,it reads out to 1/100 of an inch of water, that's another critical part.

Great one. Thanks

One problem i always see not talked about is the Helmholtz effect in intake and exhaust giving above atmosferic filling without mechanical forced induction

@____MC____

5 ай бұрын

Is that still a factor with forced induction?

@pannekoekronald

5 ай бұрын

@@____MC____ you did read the part in my post " without mechanical forced induction"? But yes it even seems to be a factor just a lot less

@____MC____

5 ай бұрын

@@pannekoekronald yes i did read that part. Did you read my question?

@pannekoekronald

5 ай бұрын

@@____MC____ yes i did! Did you read my answer?

@____MC____

5 ай бұрын

@@pannekoekronald yep. All i wanted to know was if helmholtz affected forced induction(constant air flow)

Tuned port intake and open headers fixed all my racing problems.

Good job

Wow, I'm going to need to watch that a few more time. I will call it out with the old, in with the new data, OVERLOAD.

Building a idash with thunderbolt port for external touchscreen monitor use would be a incredibly useful product update.

@thmanx

Жыл бұрын

Or… Bluetooth… 🤐

@alt5494

Жыл бұрын

@@thmanx Bluetooth would require advanced encryption as the idash is plugged into the OBD2 port with direct access to the ECU. Hacking on the move becomes a possible problem.

@thmanx

Жыл бұрын

@@alt5494 well understood

@Nismopower93

Жыл бұрын

@@alt5494 lolwut. There is literally hundreds of Bluetooth OBD2 modules on the market. This isn't any different. That idash module isn't able to write anything to the ECU it can only read. There is no chance your ECU could get hacked from this.

@dchil15

Жыл бұрын

Or one of the many normal usb connectors.

Now you've got me curious about cookn up an STM32 processor to read a MAF to use for some of my own testing

I watched this video on the day you publicly released it. I have been waiting for the next video from this because a few years ago I asked on the PTS Flowbench forum about this exact idea. IOW this is not a new thought but you at least have the time, and more importantly the money, to devote to this. Please let us know how you go.

Great video.

@bankspower

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

fixing & improving ........ a great relatioship😊

you correct for temp and humidity. that only makes testing on different days more consistent. It still doesn't exploit a flow bench. How else do you use your bench?

Yes, more please, thank you.

@bankspower

Жыл бұрын

More to come!

When are we getting the next part of this video? I wanna hear about ford v ram v GM airflow numbers!

Ahhhhh! So refreshing!

This is all so confusing, I just pick a “hot air intake” based on how neat it looks when I open the hood to show it off. 😂😂😂😂

I’m a little inebriated, so I appreciate the popcorn visuals for easier understanding.

It would be great if you had a bit more detail on how one would go about wiring up one or 4 idash's with all those sensors. I would love to set this up at home, and would happily buy an idash or 4 to do so.

Well done . Have you got the bosch part number for the map sensor

You should look into class 8 truck market I would love to have an idash in my Pete

If air temperature don´t chance in flowbench between measured object and orifice plate, I wonder is MAF really needed here? After all flowbech just compare two pressure drop. EDIT 1: I edit my comment by saying cant wait next video. I made my flowbench in 90s and currently have cfm and velocity measured in computer. I consider flowbench as tool to measure volume. Air speed is measured or calculated. Density is wonderful calculated unit in running engine where parts make pressure and temperature chances to air flow, but hard to understand how that can happen in stable flow where heat loads are not present. And yes I absolutely hope that Gale and his team are right and we can learn.

@timothymilam732

Жыл бұрын

But to reach the correct answer, everything has to be sealed to where there can be no possible chance of any air entering or leaving from one end to the other. Otherwise you have not accurately read the true numbers. Is this not correct, and whether it's a mechanical connections, or whatever it's got to be absolutely isolated from any leakage period. Yes or no

@SladiAntero

Жыл бұрын

@@timothymilam732 Sorry, I don't know what you mean. Of course air will enter and leave in parts when measured, and sealing is important. But if I have to answer, absolutely YES !!!! 😀 EDIT: That YES was to make you happy. I had my coffee and maybe I now know what you mean. In flow bench there have to be air flowing that can make pressure drop in measured object and orifice plate, and that makes possible to get reading or results out of it. If you shut down airflow (and just put pressure there), bench reads zero because there are not pressure differences. I have two industrial (including Superflow) test plates to calibrate measured CFM in my bench. Thats enough accuracy for me. I Think that industry have been right when we are measuring just air volume. Now this density value open new can of worms and I can't wait next video to see their way of thinking.

My question is how sensitive is it to suttle changes in port changes, When Smokey first built his flow bench (it was big enough that he could flow a whole engine.) at that time there were only a few across the country and they flowed heads at 10 inches Smokey found that he could make big changes and the flow did not change much. He then went on a quest the find a number that was sensitive enough to make very small changes to the port to show up, he settled on 28 inches which became the standard. To find out how much a head flows is one thing to have it sensitive enough to develop a port is another.

Is there a reason that the tubes with the mass air flow sensor are so tall? Thanks. Great Video!

What difference does mass air flow make when testing an elbow or exhaust on a flowbench when MAF if a variable of air temp, humidity and cfm? Air temp and humidity is not a constant on running engines or the everyday world. CFM capability is a constant and most people know that if you run colder air you make more hp with the same cfm. Will you run an exhaust system at full temps on the bench to simulate a running vehicle? If so the temperature at different points along the exhaust would have to match that of the installed exhaust with engine at power to keep density the same at each point along the exhaust to make it 'real world'

How do you ( or is it relevant ) to account for an engine drawing in air in pulses vs the vacuum motors drawing in air consistently?

When is the derringer coming out for the 2.8l duramax and 3.0 duramax

Roger. Received. Now what we need is a "How--To" for using the iDash and a specific MAF sensor to put a low-budget "flow-bench" together. Can we build something with an iDash, MAF sensor and a Shop-Vac to test our own ported heads, home-grown headers, etc?

@MrTheHillfolk

Жыл бұрын

I know years ago, dad saved an article from maybe it was like popular mechanics magazine. How to make your own flow bench. I do recall the items needed are about 10-15 vacuum motors and a sensitive gauge. We've got that , it's an inches of water gauge that reads down to 1/100 of an inch and is used to calibrate magnahelic gauges. Now to find the time ,and that old article. 😅

Flow bench’s usually don’t operate in zone where compressibility is very significant as most people only use them at 28” which is far less What an engine generates so you are not really going to arrive at a different conclusion between component A vs B by doing that. I’d be hot rodding the bench to read pulsed flow

@jaredshaffer3901

Жыл бұрын

I agree, this discussion of compressibility and density is applicable to things that change the pressure and/or temperature, like an intercooler. I don't see how them measuring the mass air flow through their intake elbow vs a competitors is going to yield any different results than what the flow bench already shows. Seems like they are just trying to find more ways to push their idash.

@notsofresh8563

Жыл бұрын

@@jaredshaffer3901 It seems the only reason this is better is it automatically accounts for atmospheric conditions at time of test. With the "old" way if you tested the same part 2 weeks apart you would get different results without using corrections to account for temp/pressure/humidity changes.

@jaredshaffer3901

Жыл бұрын

@@notsofresh8563 But atmospheric conditions changing would give you different mass air flow with the same CFM even if you tested the same part. CFM ignores that changing variable.

@sgriffiths1448

Жыл бұрын

MAF is irrelevant for testing of intake and exhaust parts. Cfm gives you your flow, it is constant. MAF will vary from vehicle to vehicle, day to day, elevation ect. MAF can be manipulated by the end user or environment.

@user-jd5sj8jx7r

Жыл бұрын

@UFO 047 That's like saying density altitude has no effect on a prop.

Can you build a cowl hood for a gmc sierra 2021 to get out the heat from the engine bay and whit a trap to close the hole for the winter.

I am very interested in making a flow bench using a MAF sensor and a single iDash. Can you share information to order all the Banks components needed and the Bosch MAF sensor, and housing, part numbers?

Is there any attempt to make sure that the airflow is laminar as it approaches the MAF sensor?

How about the pulsing air effect as the air is flowing into cylinders that are turning the air flow on and off, as you get closer to the cylinder head that effect is getting much greater. Yet all the airflow devices are measuring constant air speed. Is there another breakthough in flow benches yet to come?

If parts manufacturers started using MAF instead of CFM to advertise flow and HP potential from their parts theyd be able to easily manipulate the temperature ect and give higher then realistic lb/ft3 air flow or potential HP numbers

Will a MAF-sensor be available for the Idash stand alone ?

So why wouldn't you calibrate the air bench with a local pressure and temperature correction factor the same as you would on a dyno?

Did they make a follow up video ?

We want part 2 and part list to idash flowbench.

Can't wait to see people get upset...

When’s Part 2 being published?

When's the next flow bench video coming out?

Is the density not the same when the Delta pressure is the same? There are some flaws to any given system , however where not measuring density on a flowbench, that's not its purpose. The purpose as a head porter is to measure the resistance to flow compared to size. In other words how effectively a given area is being utilized for flowing air. At 28" one would be 350 cfm or 146 cfm inch of area. Its changes with a different delta pressure. I understand how MAF works and it has its benifits when used in conjunction because it can show what happens to the density of the air as it goes through the port runner or system. A flowbench has more of an unlimited capacity unlike a engine that has a fixed volume. That where things can get a little messy for determining shape.

The whole MAF idea is cool... and this would be groundbreaking... had I not read a blog ~20 years ago from a guy in his home garage doing the exact same thing using a door style MAF sensor to flow test air filters. Visions of Holley's Sky Ram abound and now I have to wait for the next thrilling installment to find out how you're compensating for all the holes in your "discovery"... like reading a book printed one chapter at a time...

The latest 8 wire Bosch has multiple air temp sensors and specifically a humidity bulb and temp sensor. The microprocessor in the MAF meter calculates Density Altitude of the air mass and sends that to the ECM. It's a micro weather station the ECM uses to calculate PPH of AIR : PPH of FUEL for the stoich lambda correction of 1.0 Everything is a lean burn engine these days. You can not wait for a wide band to correct. Reason chevy had to go to this maf sensor a few years ago, as the 5 gas exhaust analyzer was to late to control the burn, so they added the 8 wire maf sensor up stream of the 5 wire....just to add the humidity bulb and made that IAT#1, only used 3 wires to do that. Everything made today, basically uses the same 8 wire bosch weather station sensor. MAP based tunes are EFI 1.0 and far from superior. If idiots understood, they definitely would not be deleting them like a monkey see do~do. Those are not tuners. Just idiots playing videogames with their tokens.

Soo … mass airflow is measured via windchill. I never would guessed that. Thank you.

Hello, what type of MAF sensor and tube do you use ? Do you have reference number ? How did you find MAF curve ? I am looking for a precise MAF sensor for a test bench :D

If I had an older vehicle (no ECM) can I use a MAF sensor (like a Bosh) and would the I-Dash be able to convert the data from the MAF without a ECM? If so, what about other pick up sensors like pressure, temp, etc.

@mikef-gi2dg

3 ай бұрын

I would like to know the same thing.

Minor editing error fwiw, engines being fixed volumes was repeated

Very Interesting Description & I get the Concept.....So Show us some Real world Typical Examples where All the Traditional air flow Benches Cfm flow data Doesn't Significantly Track with Actual engine Dyno Results & simply Remeasuring the Same cylinder head with this MAF sensor based Bench Always tracks Significantly Better with Actual Dyno measurements.....

Questions: How do you calibrate the MAF ? Now that there is also air pressure , temp and humidity playing a big role on the MAF reading, are you going to create a correction factor so you can compare tests from different conditions like dynos ? It will be good to see who the MAF differs between two part with similar CFM but a completely different design.

@thmanx

Жыл бұрын

I believe everything is calibrated on true ambient conditions. Between an ambient air mouse 🐁 in the room, and the Bosch MAF + supplemental pressure and temp from aux sensors in the test piece… You can reference the product being tested, against real world live data.

@slamdvw

Жыл бұрын

shouldn't be that hard to compare sensors.. swap sensors. The orifice plate stays the same, should flow the same amount of air. Yes,... if you do a test today when it's rainy out and cold, vs 3 days from now when it's hot and dry, the air flow through the fixed orifice will have changed. but a 10 minute difference I doubt would change things much.

@ChurchAutoTest

Жыл бұрын

You bring up an interesting point, although perhaps tangential to your question. The MAF sensor only measures the tiny fraction of air passing through the sensor body itself. The true mass airflow through the flow tube is a function of the ratio of flow through the tube vs. flow through the MAF sensor. That said, as long as the flow tube (big long pipe) remains the same length/diameter for all testing, whatever transfer function they develop should be fine. Naturally the pipe needs to have enough distance between the tested component and the air pumps to ensure that laminar flow across the sensor is always maintained. The sensors themselves are manufactured to a pretty high tolerance, so as long as you use the same sensor, that shouldn't be a problem either.

@pixaim69

Жыл бұрын

They calibrated the bench with the calibration plates, so they should somehow calibrate the MAF so it is a true testing instrument. One way would be measuring the CFM, calculating the air density then MAF. But that would bring us back to a CFM measurement in the end. When the MAF is in operation in the car , we calibrate it via the wideband.

@ChurchAutoTest

Жыл бұрын

@@pixaim69 Technically you're calibrating the MAF transfer function (the sensor itself is a fixed value) of the intake, using the assumption that the factory MAF transfer function is correct (along with all the other calculations the ECU does to achieve stoichiometry during combustion). It would be interesting to note how the OEMs calibrate their MAF transfer functions. Some OEMs still don't use them (many Dodge vehicles), and others like GM use a redundant Speed-Density VE calc vs. MAF measurement to do a sanity check in real time. But even the VE vs. MAF check requires a lot of correction factors in the calibration to work. Anyways, I digress. TLDR, yes, they could do the orifice flow test as you described. They could even calculate choke flow for the tube and try to reference that as well if the pumps can achieve that level of flow. As I said, you brought up an interesting point.